View Full Version : Research on link between PV cells and attention


G.Debord
01-15-16, 03:26 PM
http://neurosciencenews.com/mpfc-attention-neurons-3443/
"“We found that the activity of the PV cells reflected the animals’ level of attention,” says lead investigator Marie Carlén at the Department of Neuroscience. “The PV cells were highly active if the animals were attentive, and less active when they were inattentive. The differences were so great that we were able to predict if an animal would perform the task successfully or not merely by looking at the activity of the PV cells.”

"The researchers used optogenetics to influence PV-cell activity during the seconds the animals needed to be attentive. They found that the animals’ attention was impaired when they either inhibited or changed the pattern of this activity. However, they also found a type of manipulation that could improve attention. During certain cognitive processes a category of brain waves known as gamma oscillations (30-80 Hz) increases in prefrontal cortex, and when the scientists activated the PV cells at gamma frequencies the animals solved the task more times."

sarahsweets
01-16-16, 09:44 AM
While cognitive problems are common in mental disorders such as schizophrenia, ADHD and autism, there is currently no effective medicine available.

I didnt agree with this part in the article. There are plenty of effective medications available.It doesnt mean that more work shouldnt be done, but that very brief, uncited article seemed to be making an easy assumption.

mildadhd
01-16-16, 12:59 PM
I'm interested in learning more. Are theses wiki definitions of "gamma wave" and "neural oscillation", on track?

A gamma wave is a pattern of neural oscillation in humans with a frequency between 25 and 100 Hz, though 40 Hz is typical.

-wiki

Neural oscillation is rhythmic or repetitive neural activity in the central nervous system.

-wiki

mildadhd
01-16-16, 10:03 PM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpYdSN_kts

mildadhd
01-16-16, 10:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLyndEoHPnQ

mildadhd
01-16-16, 11:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2n_g1cJyg

mildadhd
01-16-16, 11:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzOSD-XpR4g

mildadhd
01-17-16, 11:56 AM
I didnt agree with this part in the article. There are plenty of effective medications available.It doesnt mean that more work shouldnt be done, but that very brief, uncited article seemed to be making an easy assumption.

Optogenetics (from Greek optikós, meaning "seen, visible") is a biological technique which involves the use of light to control cells in living tissue, typically neurons, that have been genetically modified to express light-sensitive ion channels. It is a neuromodulation method employed in neuroscience that uses a combination of techniques from optics and genetics to control and monitor the activities of individual neurons in living tissue—even within freely-moving animals—and to precisely measure the effects of those manipulations in real-time.[1] -wiki

Optogenetics "better than drugs"? I am really interested in knowing if optogenetics treatment is available for the general public? (if anyone knows?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64X7vHSHOE

SB_UK
01-18-16, 10:32 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpYdSN_kts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCpYdSN_kts)
That's interesting.

I'd suggest that the idea of network co-ordination depends on whether we 'get it'.

So - be it a 2 year old asked what their name is vs a 12 year old being asked what their name is - the 12 year old will 'get it' and so we'll have co-ordination of all EEG bands up to cognition - but that won't be able to occur in a 2 year old.

The idea of 'getting it' could also be extended beyond ideas into eg balance where some people will be able to balance easily on a line - and others not.

-*-

The single largest problem we have is that people are meant to live their lives in the dark ie having to rely on experts to make decisions for them, where the expert often has just a little more of a clue than the average individual on the solution.
in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

The general question then whether what we would call understanding relates to synchrony between various brain parts fielding various EEG frequencies - from (according to the youtube video) high freq lower to low freq higher (representing cognition) co-ordination.

SB_UK
01-18-16, 10:39 AM
Optogenetics "better than drugs"? I am really interested in knowing if optogenetics treatment is available for the general public? (if anyone knows?)



Yes - lots of 'clever' genetics tools out there.
Lot of 'clever' neuro tools out there.

Just tools there - won't ever make it any further than a diagnostic tool which people won't be able to afford, and who wants to know what the problem is, in technicolor detail ?
Generally people just want to know how to overcome the problem.

Medical research is particularly good at taking a problem and showing that it is (surprise surprise) a problem.

But all we need to get our heads around is that some people learn at different rates to others - using learning to reference everything from language, to balance - and that if we push an individual to learn faster than they're capable of ie advanced {{{anything}}} before the essential basics are mastered - then it's likely that the individual will maybe able to pass an exam but solely through 'cheating' ie bulk loading information into short term memory - just to get the individual through an examination.

Interesting though - that perhaps the technique on offer can be used to experimentally determine if an individual 'understands' - though being able to understand is generally something that the individual knows if they do - albeit suppressed in the current educational environment - where it really doesn't matter whether or not you understand anything particularly - you're on a clock and have to pass through all material prior to the examination.

SB_UK
01-18-16, 11:35 AM
The general question then whether what we would call understanding relates to synchrony between various brain parts fielding various EEG frequencies - from (according to the youtube video) high freq lower to low freq higher (representing cognition) co-ordination.

General idea wants to link into the cerebellar tree - representing levels - like the axial levels in the video ie multiple abstraction layers of the brain requiring matching via cerebellum - where learning (cerebellar recognition) ties together subsequent brain layers into what ends up as being a synchronous from axial lower to higher from high frequency to lower frequency - 'co-ordination' ie just co-ordination (proper learning) which is all that's required for the brain to function appropriately at any given task.

A proper defn of learning.

SB_UK
01-19-16, 08:05 AM
|- high freq wave (gamma) - beta wave - alpha wave -|- theta wave - delta wave -|

ADDers known for enhanced theta -|- --> creative daydream space
and
ADDers known for enhanced delta -| --> disconnecting mind
and for
hyperfocus ?? |- --> ?? hyperfocus ?? [is hyperfocus associated with gamma EEG ?]

ie ADDers have closed the circuit of

axial lower -> axial higher
gamma -> delta wave frequency spectrum

|- -|- -|

^
|

understood in the same way as we understand the EM spectrum ie

high freq (low wavelength) -- central point -- low freq (high wavelength)

-*-

So - the idea that the entire ADDer brain is synchronized as evidenced by our delta, theta, gamma ?? tendency ?

^
|

just an idea - don't know if it's true.

SB_UK
01-19-16, 08:14 AM
^ That's interesting because it suggests that the entire evolutionary nervous system (culminates in man) is a 'resolving' wave ie the underlying motivation beneath th nervous system completing (in man) was to define a waveform or electromagnetic spectrum equivalent (connected as we see in the EM spectrum) from ultra high to ultra low frequency -
with gamma vs theta vs delta being modelled as 3 orthogonal spaces

ie
a standing wave as gamma and delta (the 2 components) and evolution through these 2 orthogonal dimensions to give rise to the central emergent property (in our case theta - as it connects to creativity)

creativity -> art (quality)

-*-

Would like to know if hyerfocus relates to increased gamma EEGs in ADDers ?

SB_UK
01-19-16, 08:18 AM
Possible markers for hyperfocus were identified, namely significantly lower alpha and beta levels in the ADHD group, as well as a decrease in slow-wave activity over time
https://ujdigispace.uj.ac.za/handle/10210/8640

but an increase in gamma ?

SB_UK
01-19-16, 09:00 AM
slow fast
narcotic stimulant
depression anxiety
PNS SNS
ADD-I ADHD
Hypo Hypermania
High blood glucose Low blood glucose
GABA (inhibitory) nt vs glutamate nt

SB_UK
01-19-16, 09:03 AM
The pattern here is that slow is a separate system to fast

slow - female archetype
fast - male archetype

Evolution through the centre.

ie
gamma EEG -- theta EEG -- delta EEG
gamma EEG -- theta EEG -- delta EEG
gamma EEG -- theta EEG -- delta EEG

3 orthogonal waves ie waves in separate 'dimensions'

sarahsweets
01-19-16, 09:09 AM
I dont understand this and what it has to do with the OP.
|- high freq wave (gamma) - beta wave - alpha wave -|- theta wave - delta wave -|

ADDers known for enhanced theta -|- --> creative daydream space
and
ADDers known for enhanced delta -| --> disconnecting mind
and for
hyperfocus ?? |- --> ?? hyperfocus ?? [is hyperfocus associated with gamma EEG ?]

ie ADDers have closed the circuit of

axial lower -> axial higher
gamma -> delta wave frequency spectrum

|- -|- -|

^
|

understood in the same way as we understand the EM spectrum ie

high freq (low wavelength) -- central point -- low freq (high wavelength)

-*-

So - the idea that the entire ADDer brain is synchronized as evidenced by our delta, theta, gamma ?? tendency ?

^
|

just an idea - don't know if it's true.

SB_UK
01-19-16, 10:04 AM
hyperfocus ?? |- --> ?? hyperfocus ?? [is hyperfocus associated with gamma EEG ?]

hyperfocus ??


However, they also found a type of manipulation that could improve attention. During certain cognitive processes a category of brain waves known as gamma oscillations (30-80 Hz) increases in prefrontal cortex, and when the scientists activated the PV cells at gamma frequencies the animals solved the task more times


hyperfocus ??

Little Missy
01-19-16, 10:16 AM
I dont understand this and what it has to do with the OP.

I don't understand this either, could you elaborate?

SB_UK
01-19-16, 11:17 AM
Just # 18

SB_UK
01-20-16, 10:58 AM
So - the entire pattern of neural development from first nerve to brain underlying mind can be seen as the generation of a spectrum - entirely similar to the EM spectrum -

representing gamma -> delta noting that the male archetype occurs first ie

male archetype +
female archetype -

Just imagine a large woman riding on the back of a smallish chap - the evolutionary pattern.

-*-

delta / |theta \ gamma

where - theta and association to creativity opens the door to all of those pursuits we associate with creativity most notably the generation of 'quality' for people to enjoy.

SB_UK
01-21-16, 05:13 AM
delta / |theta \ gamma



All enriched in ADDer.

ADDer defines end-point to brain (completion of mind).

Transition occurs through the centre in the male/female archetype model of evolution.

Evolution through theta EEG - well known association with creativity.

Connection of creativity into quality.

Neural correlate of quality = see Markram's Intense World Theory for a neural mechanism for increasing 'sensitivity' - 'Intense World Theory' - increased sensory signal acquisition however sensory signals not yet formed through learning into sensory-motor cerebellar recognition loops - giving rise to painnful overstimulation.

Also - of great importance - a change in diet.

growth of physical body -> neural connectivity
carb/protein - insulin/IGF-1 -> fat/soluble fibre

Ketone bodies (fat/soluble fibre) naturally arrest growth.

Ketone bodies associate (through HDACi) with increased neural connectivity.

Increased neural connectivity associated with increased sensitivity (Markram model) -> personal acquisition formation.

-*-

Summarising

human being + mind which knows right from wrong -> changes diet from anabolic to maintenance (fat/soluble fibre) -> makes transition from 'materialistic' -> wise (quality loving) via an underlying mechanism (ie location of neural network undergoing formation) as dissected by Kamila and Henry Markram.

In the background also - basic carb -> fat transition as echoed by dopamine release on anabolic foods - associated with dopamine retention - polymerization into neuromelanin - and use of neuromelanin as a mechanism (human chlorophyll) of sustaining the individual.

So

programmed human reproductive life cycle -> education in morality -> wisdom (free will)

where transition of reward system at morality results in an individual no longer being drawn to 'growth' foods which kill us - see list of diseases treated under wikiP/HDAC inhibitor -

broadly speaking

a transition from materialistic reward system -> informational reward system (musical chills)

-*-

The above isn't quite right - as musical chills (dopamine nt release) wouldn't be compatible with dopamine polymerization.

So - potentially.

Human beings have never been programmed towards materialism.
Human beings were supposed to use the quality reward system (eg musical chills) to help us towards wisdom.
At wisdom we transcend the dopamine release model of reward.

mildadhd
01-23-16, 11:23 PM
Hi SB_UK

I'm trying to get a better general understanding of the overall information in regards to the op, your insights on the topics are very much appreciated.


Summary
Several lines of evidence indicate that the theta rhythm is critically involved in memory processing functions, as follows: (a) LTP in the hippocampus is optimally elicited with stimulation at theta frequency,(b) stimulation delivered in the presence but not in the absence of theta potentiates population responses in the hippocampus, (c) discrete medial septal lesions that abolish theta produce severe learning/memory deficits, (d) the loss of LTP with PB (or theta) stimulation in mutant mice is associated with a pronounced disruption of place cell activity and spatial memory, and (e) task-dependent increases in the percentage and/or power of theta have been described in the cortex and hippocampus of humans during performance of various episodic/declarative, recognition, spatial, and working memory tasks.


http://www.ccs.fau.edu/~vertes/theta-bcnr-review.pdf

mildadhd
01-24-16, 10:59 AM
4. The SEEKING disposition and psychiatric diseases

Within the affective neuroethological perspective we advocate here, most psychiatric disorders are emotional-affective diseases, with observable dysfunctional neural processes that express and modulate basic emotional drives. Psychiatric diseases may emerge from maladaptive communications and emerging imbalances between higher forebrain areas involved in complex representation of our interpersonal world and basic emotional operating system located in ancient subcortical regions, especially when lower affective processes prevail over gradually established higher cognitive function.

Experimental and clinical evidences suggest that the SEEKING brain system is differentially involved in various psychiatric diseases. For example, there is abundant evidence for abnormal ML-DA functioning in schizophrenia (Carlsson, 1978; Meltzer and Stahl, 1976; Snyder, 1972), addiction (Koob, 1992; Wise and Bozarth, 1987), attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) (Levy, 1991; Oades, 1987), and depression (Nestler and Carlezon, 2006; Willner, 1983a,b). Recent neurophysiological studies have also revealed disturbed gamma oscillatory activity in the anterior forebrain in some of the above-mentioned diseases. For example, abnormal neural oscillations and synchrony in the gamma and beta range have been found in schizophrenic patients (Uhlhaas and Singer, 2010). Here, we will focus on the potential role of imbalanced SEEKING dispositions in two important and often related pathologies, depression and addiction, focusing on all the levels of analysis discussed above (also see the contribution by Zellner et al., 2011).


http://www.researchgate.net/publication/50374608_The_SEEKING_mind_Primal_neuro-affective_substrates_for_appetitive_incentive_stat es_and_their_pathological_dynamics_in_addictions_a nd_depression

SB_UK
01-25-16, 12:27 PM
memory theta
seeking gamma

Don't particularly want to remember anything.
(memory - don't need to remember anything specific in order to live - memory feels a little as though it's even when most powerful - that it's inevitably grossly incomplete)

Am not particularly seeking anything.
(seeking - drug seeking ie needing to find something to obtain reward)

If asked - I'd suggest that putting the mind out of its misery 'd be the humane option.

SB_UK
01-26-16, 07:32 AM
Theta memory
We learn when we're relaxed ie associate faster EEGs with more frenetic states.
Personally - I remember when I understand - otherwise it's like sand through a timer.

Gamma seeking
An engaged, excited state where we attempt to discover something we need to know.
Still attracted to the idea of hyperfocus with gamma EEG - connecting to attention with gamma EEG (OP).

-*-

It's difficult defining a better memory when the best memory one might acquire will (with respect to the world's data) be dwarfed.
Sufficient memory to uphold understanding is a better definition ie we need only so much information to construct a mind into a state of enforced morality / wisdom.
Not much data required.

What do I currently pay attention to ?
In this imperfect world - almost all attention is aimed at trying to maintain things.
How to fix a collapsing bike, a broken car, badly laid paving, decaying wooden shed, worn out shoes, socks with holes in them.

The great problem - you need specialist tools to do everything and we haven't the space to store them.

In this current world there's only emphasis in buying and not on maintaining/sustainability.

-*-

What would we use our memory / attention on in a decent world where there are decent people who derive reward, not from money - but from making life on Earth better ?

We'd use our memory / attention in that wholly rewarding way ie towards improving a sustainable infrastructure for happy living
- rather than as we do know - trying to fix systems which maybe shouldn't ever have been introduced in the first place - or to be kinder - were introduced when we knew less.

The bicylce is a classic example.

The mechanism of front + rear derailleurs, a chain, exposed wheels for the gears - it's all past its sell by date.

The number of mothers I see with kids on the back of their bikes with worn out bike drive trains is astounding.
They're going to kill themselves and their kids - and the basis for all of this - is that people have trained up in these technologies and so refuse change - because it's their livelihood at stake.

Similarly the green revolution of solar power - a system can cost £1.5k but swells to £6-7k when people wanting excess profit get involved.

We live in a world where all that anybody wants (and this is a consequence of money) is to STEAL from you.

Any interaction involving money is by definition an act of hate.

Love - to enjoy doing what's best for others.
Hate - to personally profit (not do what's best) for others <- all interctions involving money

mildadhd
01-27-16, 11:27 PM
SB_UK (and other interested members)

I would like to discuss the topics posted over time?

Lets take a good long look at these topics first vertically (bottom up then top down), then horizontally (right brain-left brain)?

I was thinking (vertically)(evolutionarily), Theta waves (4-7 Hz) lower in the brain, Gamma waves (30-100 Hz) higher in the brain.

Scientific agreements and disagreements appreciated.

(I have more questions, one at a time)

SB_UK
01-27-16, 11:49 PM
SB_UK (and other interested members)

I would like to discuss the topics posted over time?

Lets take a good long look at these topics first vertically (bottom up then top down), then horizontally (right brain-left brain)?

I was thinking (vertically)(evolutionarily), Theta waves (4-7 Hz) lower in the brain, Gamma waves (30-100 Hz) higher in the brain.

Scientific agreements and disagreements appreciated.

(I have more questions, one at a time)


The pattern of time is to extend from small periodicity (Planck time) to our concept of time with our relation to daily, monthly, yearly cycles -

from the perspective of brain waves -

the tendency from gamma to theta.

The video above seems to indicate a brain top to bottom axial gamma to theta transition - in line with the pattern of evolution of time.

SB_UK
01-27-16, 11:58 PM
The right - left pattern should reference

right (integral) (parallel processor) of left

Integration / Differentiation of signal

(left -> (left -> ( left -> right ) right ) right)

outer ----------> inner brain

Should result in a pattern of

high frequency -> low frequency transition

-*-

So - the outer evolutionary world from Big Band and the emergence of Planck time - Planck length standing wave - via the evolutionary pattern of 1 overarching (eg gravity) force disseminated into 3 polar forces (strong, weak and EM) -

- giving rise to abstraction layers.

The abstraction layers of the external world.
Mirrored
By the abstraction layers of the internal world: eg 3 abstraction layers shown here
(left -> (left -> ( left -> right ) right ) right)

-*-

The brain therefore layers recognition capacity of the evolutionary abstraction layers outside -

- with the sensory data all interpreted via the cerebellum.

So - cerebellar - sensori - motor loops which arc from the lowest level of recognition - to the highest -

- with the end-point coming when we transcend recognition capacity of the material world as it exists pre-definition of mind -

and invent art (art extends Universal informational landscape (evolutionary imperative - increasing informational complexity) of pre-emergent mind) to further pursue evolutionary development in our sensori-motor cerebellar loops - towards the acquisition of personal quality -

to enjoy immersion in sensual experience - of course - requiring the capacity to discern (a central nervous feature) quality.

SB_UK
01-27-16, 11:58 PM
To learn discerepetition.

mildadhd
01-28-16, 09:55 PM
(Top-down) EEG, measuring bottom-up (auditory) processing?

mildadhd
01-28-16, 10:34 PM
http://neurosciencenews.com/mpfc-attention-neurons-3443/
During certain cognitive processes a category of brain waves known as gamma oscillations (30-80 Hz) increases in prefrontal cortex, and when the scientists activated the PV cells at gamma frequencies the animals solved the task more times."

"During certain cognitive processes a category of brain waves known as gamma oscillations (30-80 Hz) increases in prefrontal cortex.."

Cognitive tertiary and secondary auditory processing, begin with primary sensory affective processing, in the brain stem.