... I have bad "fine motor skills" in the first couple of tries with anything but develop them after a while.
source: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=177856&postcount=5

my son has this same issue. his occupational therapist called is "poor motor planning". he needs each step of a complex process broken down for him. he learns each step and once each step is mastered, he can put them together and *zip* that zipper.

he needs someone to break down the steps for him, either showing him, or better yet, guiding his hands. once he's got it, he's a pro.

we're concentrating on the zippers at the moment. next, we'll tackle tying his shoes.... for the moment we'll stick with velcro (pardon the pun ... :rolleyes: )

my questions ... is this what you experience in that bit i quoted??? if yes, what helps you get it after the first couple tries? do you just give yourself time to figure it out - figure out how it works? or do you need someone to show you? is it a matter of breaking down the steps then putting them back together? any insights would be appreciated. i want to figure out how to help him. my "big" guy gets so *frustrated*!

more generally, i'm wondering about some of the parallels i see when dyspraxia and ADHD are discussed. i should really take the time to go into it myself, but, i'm going to cheat and provide a link .... :rolleyes:

Motor planning is often referred to as praxis, but a more accurate definition of praxis is the organisation of the self. This definition encompasses motor skills, but also extends to cognitive tasks. Insofar as it relates to motor function, praxis allows us to appreciate and carry out the step-by-step nature of many motor activities, as well as make inferences about new tasks based on similar ones already experienced. Most young children demonstrate this ability from an early age, organising their actions with a purpose in mind. source: Dyspraxia: A Motor Planning Disorder (http://listenandlearn.com.au/type/dyspraxia.htm)

i see the problems my "big" guy has planning out the steps involved in order to zip, how focused he gets (hyper-focused even), and frustrated if he can't get it. reminds me of the ADD traits i have with breaking down a big task into smaller parts, hyper-focusing on one part of the big picture, and frustrated - in general some days....

questions? comments? scathing rebuttal??? :D

wheezie

I did have this and I think it is common. It does get better. It was never defined as a disorder when I was ak id... I cannot believe how many disorders they come up with... shows you how lost the medical community is. (ok... before I get flamed...these are not imagined things they are seeing but they have context that is still not understood...nothing exists in a vacuum, especially not "disorders")

This may be a part of ADD... "my not yet proven model" shows that prioritization is an issue with ADD. Step by step tasks are a supreme example of prioritization.
Since we seem to put everything in context, primarily with sense... it would make sense that guiding his hand creates a sense based experience that can be easily stored in contextual memory (which is heavily sense based). Again...this is based on my models... they have been proven accurate to a degree but every person will find different things easier and different things harder.

I would imagine that training prioritization in general is a really good thing... just combine task with a sense input. For example...playing new songs he has never heard while tying his shoes might help...or a new taste or smell. Add this sense element every time he ties his shoes and only then. after a while... it should help trigger the memory.

Again, this is what my model would suggest... with any young child or ADDer.

I went to one of those people they helped me alot actulally but my writing is still bad, but is muh better then it use to be.

Well all those big word gave me a headacke lol, :rolleyes: , but i think i did understand the major part of it.
I know that you can try to teach me orally or reading or writting for ever i will not get it. But if i actually touch or try it manualy, i will get it mostly on the first time. I know that i amaze people on how fast i can learn that way. Lots of trial and errors, i always been ''autodidact'' ( is that a word in english?) and learn much faster by myself .

But like you say, i have to do each part broken down.

My model is that timing controls are at the center of most motor planning and sequencing problems (dyspraxia). In the basal ganglia (of the brain) there are some oscillators which are the timing clearinghouse for all voluntary motor activity.

When a car engine is running roughly, you rarely fix it with a different kind of lubricant or fuel. You adjust the timing relationships between the spark (distributor) and the mechanical parts (valves and pistons). You rarely fix it by running the engine slowly or rapidly. If those timing relationships are screwed up, the engine will run roughly.

The brain's timing circuits can be erratic, can be poorly adjusted, can send spurious signals (occasionally or continuously), can be too late, and can be too early. It can be so badly adjusted that the signals do not relate in any way to the task at hand. It can have a combination of these conditions.

Now, there is a way to measure these timing circuits to determine if, how, and how much the circuits are out-of-whack.

The problem with the timing circuits in the brain is that they can NOT be adjusted like adjusting the distributor of a car engine. With a car, you view marks on a large gear of the engine with at strobe hooked up to one of the signal paths. You physically adjust (rotate) the distributor until the strobe light flashes on a specific mark on the gear. By doing this, we line up the signal with the correct position of the valves and pistons. This takes 10 or 15 minutes.

The only way to adjust the timing circuits in the brain is to build new nerve dendrites. The brain is malleable. It will build new dendrites for any repeated physical activity. Any behavior that is repeated will either build new dendrites (for some new repeated activity) or reinforce old dendrites (for established repeated activity). This is why we get good at things we repeat. The brain builds circuits to help us manage things we repeat.

Of course, this is a doubled-edged sword. If we can only perform poorly timed activities, we are reinforcing the timing circuits which drive that poorly timed activity. As long as our physical activity remains with dyspraxia, we will continue to reinforce our dyspraxia.

Making new appropriate timing circuits requires that we perform precisely rhythmic activities. That is why Hawaiian native children taking regular hula classes have ADHD at 20% the rate of the other Hawaiian children in their communities.

Hula is very rhythmic. The children in hula class learn and practice rhythmic activities, and then the brain builds timing circuits which are rhythmic. This is why ADHD children (and adults) lose their symptoms after learning how to be rhythmic.