View Full Version : link between selective eating and psychiatric issues (including ADHD)


peripatetic
01-26-16, 03:31 PM
i saw this today and thought it interesting because so many people have noted their own selective eating patterns on threads here.


SE was associated with increased
psychiatric comorbidity and
psychiatric symptoms. Children with
both moderate and severe SE
demonstrated increased symptoms of
generalized anxiety, social anxiety,
and depressive symptoms, whereas
those with moderate SE also
endorsed elevated symptoms of
ADHD and separation anxiety. It is
interesting to consider what may be
common vulnerabilities that
contribute to psychiatric symptoms
and food avoidance. Given our
findings of enhanced sensory
sensitivity, it could be that this
enhanced intensity of experience
makes it challenging to regulate
emotions or modulate attention focus,
providing a common vulnerability to
disorders of eating and affective
experience.

it also talks about improving intervention instead of just taking a "wait it out" attitude, and how that could offer greater functionality if selective eating is understood and treated in light of the long term problems it could have for people.

here's the article in full: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2015/07/28/peds.2014-2386.full.pdf

i personally am not so picky as an eater when i'm doing well...i have strong preferences, but i can keep down some things that outright disgust me if i have to--if it would be wildly culturally inappropriate or disrespectful, for example (palm grubs probably being the most disgusting).

when i'm unwell, however, i have subsisted on a mostly yoghurt diet. not "to diet" so much as that was the only thing i found palatable at all. so, i'm just saying there is definitely a psychiatric issue when my range of foods i'll consume is severely limited. less to do with adhd in my case, though eating itself sometimes seems just not worth the effort or slips my mind and that's more adhd related.

anyway, it does seem to be a connection that's anecdotally borne out on here, so thought i'd share.

SB_UK
01-26-16, 04:21 PM
just posted elsewhere

What if the root basis for the diseases we're reporting in the rich world are simply diseases of excess protein and high GI carb intake ?

The raw vegan diet would hold the key.

Autophagy (the recycling imperative)
vs
insulin/IGF-1 (the economic GROWTH paradigm)

SB_UK
01-26-16, 04:22 PM
i saw this today and thought it interesting because so many people have noted their own selective eating patterns on threads here.




it also talks about improving intervention instead of just taking a "wait it out" attitude, and how that could offer greater functionality if selective eating is understood and treated in light of the long term problems it could have for people.

here's the article in full: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2015/07/28/peds.2014-2386.full.pdf

i personally am not so picky as an eater when i'm doing well...i have strong preferences, but i can keep down some things that outright disgust me if i have to--if it would be wildly culturally inappropriate or disrespectful, for example (palm grubs probably being the most disgusting).

when i'm unwell, however, i have subsisted on a mostly yoghurt diet. not "to diet" so much as that was the only thing i found palatable at all. so, i'm just saying there is definitely a psychiatric issue when my range of foods i'll consume is severely limited. less to do with adhd in my case, though eating itself sometimes seems just not worth the effort or slips my mind and that's more adhd related.

anyway, it does seem to be a connection that's anecdotally borne out on here, so thought i'd share.

I think that shifting live yoghourt for live fermented veg is the key.

Nearly there now.

kim chi and little else.

Fundamental problem with dairy - eg as described in the free doc 'Cowspiracy'

peripatetic
01-26-16, 04:32 PM
Does kombucha count as live fermented veg? I really can't stomach the stuff, but it's quite popular here with many making their own.

SB_UK
01-27-16, 02:52 AM
I think that the all important part is the bacteria + soluble fibre + nutrients in the raw fermented food - which'd all be present in a fermented vegetable.

SB_UK
01-27-16, 02:54 AM
prebiotic + probiotic + minerals (Mg,K,Ca most often mentioned)

Corina86
01-27-16, 02:44 PM
Interesting article. It was definitely the case for me, because I'm still the pickiest eater I know and I was disaster as a kid. It was what me be underweight for most of my life and I'm sure it's the reason why I'm having digestive issues now.

@SB_UK
Why does everything you post has to be about the first world issues? I didn't grow up there, I didn't eat junk food, neither did anyone around me, but we still have the mental problems as American and West Europeans, not to mention a lot more alcoholism.

And as a kid with severe "selective eating disorder", I would've starved to death if my parents had put me on a "paleo" or "raw vegan" diet.

mildadhd
01-27-16, 11:54 PM
It makes sense from a layhuman affective perspective that the type of separation anxiety originating from the GRIEF system, would have a different experimental result than a type of anxiety originating from the FEAR system. (considering separate (interconnecting) biological systems)

Lots of interesting things to discuss in this article in general.

I am assuming eating to much or not enough are both considered selective eating?

I wonder if Mahatma Gandhi would have been considered a selective eater?

Fortune
01-28-16, 12:26 AM
I think selective means "only eats some things" so I am not sure it can really be connected to how much one eats, but if it does it is far more likely to result in not eating enough.

I am a pretty selective eater - I can't handle a lot of textures various kinds of food comes in so I don't eat those foods, at least not prepared in that way (say, steamed vegetables I can't do but stir fried I can).

I've always been a selective eater and it led to a lot of battles while I was a child.

sarek
01-28-16, 03:43 AM
Here is a mod note:

I have had to split off some material from this thread that had been going off topic.

The topic of this thread is the link between selective eating and psychiatric disorders.
Lets try to stick to that topic.

SB_UK
01-28-16, 01:38 PM
presumably the simplest connectin 'd be

mental distress - comfort foods - physical exacerbates mental distress

surely starch/sugar make bipolar worse ?

this idea:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201203/do-carbs-make-you-crazy

^^^ very good

classic battle sugar/starch vs see above prebiotic/probiotic/mineral [stable blood glucose]

[1]
serotonin argument in paper nonsense
- 95% serotonin generated in gut by biome - feeding the biome is obviously going to lift serotonin levles.

[2] carbs for feel good effect in paper nonsense
- just feeding hypoglycaemia with hyperglycaemia follows hypoglycaemia - you're jst temproarily curing not solving the problem.

Is bad diet the entire basis of mental disease ?
Of course not - if you're poor and working 12 hours a day to live in a cardboard box - then a poor diet 'll just be a small part of the suffering you'll be under.

SB_UK
01-28-16, 01:58 PM
Interesting article. It was definitely the case for me, because I'm still the pickiest eater I know and I was disaster as a kid. It was what me be underweight for most of my life and I'm sure it's the reason why I'm having digestive issues now.

@SB_UK
Why does everything you post has to be about the first world issues? I didn't grow up there, I didn't eat junk food, neither did anyone around me, but we still have the mental problems as American and West Europeans, not to mention a lot more alcoholism.

And as a kid with severe "selective eating disorder", I would've starved to death if my parents had put me on a "paleo" or "raw vegan" diet.


Strongly feel that immigrants from a long line of relative poverty are epigenetically programmed to eat less ie become diabese more easily - easy to test.
Definitely noted that people of Indian / Caribbean extraction in the UK at greater risk of diet-related conditions.
Strong suspicion that there's a metabolic mental link.

Just been through the med records of 100 or so kids here - strange association of anxiety and asthma.

Personally - have found that diet / stress absence can totally overcome asthma ie for first time can exercise without inhalers.

here

eg In all minority ethnic groups there was a general age-related increase in the prevalence of CVD conditions including diabetes.http://patient.info/doctor/diseases-and-different-ethnic-groups

-*-

bringing it all together - psych distress exacerbated by physiological distress through altered food (self-medication for stimulant ie glutamate + blood glucose elevation) preference - sugar/starch consumption /glutamate (neurotoxic).

-*-

raw vegan's under an absence of distress is the answer - but no-one'll transition to it whilst under some form of distress requiring self-medication altering food preferences ... ...

-*-

So - problem - cross-over between cancer / diabesity / heart disease / anxiety /depression / bipolar / immune dysfunction all meeting at distress trigger -> dietary exacerbation.

Lunacie
01-28-16, 03:21 PM
It makes sense from a layhuman affective perspective that the type of separation anxiety originating from the GRIEF system, would have a different experimental result than a type of anxiety originating from the FEAR system. (considering separate (interconnecting) biological systems)

Lots of interesting things to discuss in this article in general.

I am assuming eating to much or not enough are both considered selective eating?

I wonder if Mahatma Gandhi would have been considered a selective eater?

I think Mahatma Gandhi was searching for the perfect diet rather than avoiding foods because of psychological problems.

It says quite clearly in the abstract that they are referring to not eating or avoiding food, not to over-eating.

WHAT THIS STUDY ADDS: This study examines
whether selective eating, at 2 levels of severity, is
associated with current and future psychological
problems. Because moderate levels of
selective eating were associated with
impairment, selective eating falls within the
diagnosis of avoidant/restrictive food intake
disorder




There doesn't seem to be any conclusion as to whether avoiding food leads to psychological problems, or makes those problems worse, or is just caused by those problems. :confused:

peripatetic
01-28-16, 05:03 PM
There doesn't seem to be any conclusion as to whether avoiding food leads to psychological problems, or makes those problems worse, or is just caused by those problems. :confused:

i think the point is more that intervention is called for instead of just assuming selective eating is a "phase" that one will "grow out of"...and that, given the significant number of people who have both selective eating in their history and do develop psychiatric concerns, that selective eating be considered in terms of how it affects functionality (which, given functionality is reduced when psychiatric concerns present, certainly would seem to exacerbate problems if left untreated/unaddressed). so, in the sense that impaired functionality would make problems worse or could be considered a marker/criterion of psychological problems generally, then selective eating itself is both a problem, and is also linked to other psychological problems. perhaps the exact "how" or "why" isn't known, but the "that it happens" is and so failure to address the selective eating is failure to promote "early intervention", which is considered a best practice with most, if not all, psychological/psychiatric concerns.

that's what i took from it though.

and, yes, definitely, the article isn't about over eating or problems of overeating. it's about restrictive or selective eating and how that 1. impairs functionality, 2. appears to be correlated with psychiatric issues later in life, 3. should be treated as the disorder that it is given 1 and 2.

that's what i took away from reading the article. is that along the lines of what you were thinking, too, luna?

Lunacie
01-28-16, 05:47 PM
Yeah peri, that's what I got from it too.

But you can't force kids to eat.

I totally ****** off my niece when she was forcing her 2 year old to sit at the table until he finished his dinner.

I never made my daughter or grandkids eat what I fixed at mealtime.

If they didn't want to eat it, they could have a PB&J or just some cheese and vegs.

Funny thing, neither grandkid was picky until they were around 11 or 12.

Little Missy
01-28-16, 07:54 PM
I don't eat anything I don't want to eat and I do not believe a child should ever have to eat something they do not want to eat either. Period.

peripatetic
01-28-16, 08:06 PM
I don't eat anything I don't want to eat and I do not believe a child should ever have to eat something they do not want to eat either. Period.

Where did you see that suggested in the article, exactly? Helping doesn't have to mean forcing children to eat something they don't like. That's probably the opposite of a positive/constructive intervention.

Little Missy
01-28-16, 10:02 PM
Where did you see that suggested in the article, exactly? Helping doesn't have to mean forcing children to eat something they don't like. That's probably the opposite of a positive/constructive intervention.

haha, oh, whoops sorry, I just sort of blasted that out there.:)

mildadhd
01-29-16, 12:24 AM
(0) -Normal SE
(1) -Moderate SE
(2) -Severe SE

Moderate SE and Severe SE pointed to possible moderate and severe psychiatric conditions, I am unsure?

Selective/Picky Eating

The items related to SE assess whether the child will consume only a restricted range of foods and the degree to which food selectivity impaired functioning.

Interviewers were instructed not to include restricted dislikes that were typical of many children (eg, cruciferous vegetables, such as broccoli).

Children were coded as “0” if there was no restricted intake (or restricted to typical dislikes).

Moderate SE (“1”) was coded if the child ate only within the range of his/her preferred foods,..

..and severe SE was coded (“2”) if eating with others was difficult because of the extreme limited range.

This classification resulted in 3 levels of SE: normal, moderate, and severe.

mildadhd
01-29-16, 01:07 AM
They decided the participants dislikes, based on the limited foods they did like, and also if they ate less of the limited foods they did like when in the presence of other random groups of people?

SB_UK
01-29-16, 03:35 AM
Yes - what I'm noticing is that people (particularly children under psych distress at school) limit their options to ultra-high GI and ultra-high protein (animal-based).

Range and diversity of vegetables, fruit are the first casualty.

-*-

Of note sleep deprivation and a cold also yesterday altered my food taste preferences - noticed relative insensitivity in taste and resistance from eating subtle (the healthy) foods.

Suggesting that food is the socially acceptable self-medication and that people under distress of one form or another will use it - so easy is the food which treats suffering to acquire.
Actually much cheaper and easier to acquire it is.

Once we take the route of high GI and high animal protein - the closest we'll get to a healthy option is a slice of lettuce on the plate eaten to kid the childish mind into believing that the individual's eating healthily.

The addicted mind is easily swayed.

-*-


Core belief - alleviate the single cause of distress (needing money to survive) and the inappropriate food choice will not be available.

Will this alleviate the more difficult mental conditions eg autism, schizophrenia ?
It would eliminate the factors which drive people to develop systematizing over empathizing properties (SBC's basis to enrichment in autism in 2 academic parents)
It would eliminate the factors which lead to people acquiring schizophrenia in the Dutch Hunger Winter study.

There's a strong connection between metabolism and all human disease - undoubtedly because 'food' is the sole thing that human beings need to survive.

Fortune
01-29-16, 05:22 AM
Selective eating is a symptom not a cause. You won't improve anything by forcing people to eat food that they can't tolerate, but you will make eating a traumatically stressful experience for people when it doesn't need to be. It's better to find ways to accommodate people.

SB_UK
01-29-16, 05:51 AM
Selective eating is a symptom not a cause. You won't improve anything by forcing people to eat food that they can't tolerate, but you will make eating a traumatically stressful experience for people when it doesn't need to be. It's better to find ways to accommodate people.

Symptom (as you say) AND Cause (exacerbation - worsening) is the point
not
Symptom NOT cause.

The psych today article above pretty much states that I think ... ...

Peripheral has clearly demonstrated with 'Rat Park' - that distress leads to opiate preference.
Since gluten exorphin / caseomorphin / sweet + fatty foods are all opiate mimics - it stands to reason that distress will automatically and reactively alter food preference -


- which is the nature of Peripatetic's thread.

-*-

Noting that stimulant and narcotic excess appears to be associated with eg psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar mania
- there's a clear link between metabolism most notably blood glucose levels and mental disorders

- and in reactive hypoglycaemia in surprise surprise changing food preferences for high GI foods ie sugar / starch - which have a trough inevitably associated approx 4 hours after consumption - after transiently curing a low.

Extremely close relationship between food intake and mental state.
We need to look at the underlying reward system there - and transcending 'growth' -friendly (required for completion of mind) so that we're freed to overcome toxic food preferences.

-*-
Generally connect

stimulant to high GI and high (partic animal) protein
narcotic to (eg above) - wheat and dairy

Interesting then that wheat (both stimulant and narcotic) and dairy (both stimulant and narcotic) might wikiP/spedball individuals in a state of chronic distress.

SB_UK
01-29-16, 07:50 AM
Imagine the pepperoni pizza

meat / parmesan - ultra-high in glutamate [stimulant, neurotoxin]
base (processed flour) - high glycaemic index [stimulant] + gluten exorphin [opiate]
cheese - whey [fast metabolized protein - stimulant], caseomorphin [opiate]

massive increases on glycaemic index + fatty - sweet fatty foods - activate the opioid system.

That's a potent speedball and EVERYBODY's hooked.

And as Rat Park shows - it's an inevitable effect of environmental distress which nobody in current society can see - because nobody has even seen anything other.

Food preferences change.
Markets develop around what sells (demand and supply).
People die.

-*-

All we need see (thread nature) is that overcoming distress through constructing a globally flat structure (not a hierarchical structure for man) in terms of 'worth' will reactively alter food preference
ie true equality and not simply pretend equality - the capacity to vote for whether we're imprisoned within cells with either blue or red walls.

Lunacie
01-29-16, 11:25 AM
Imagine the pepperoni pizza

meat / parmesan - ultra-high in glutamate [stimulant, neurotoxin]
base (processed flour) - high glycaemic index [stimulant] + gluten exorphin [opiate]
cheese - whey [fast metabolized protein - stimulant], caseomorphin [opiate]

massive increases on glycaemic index + fatty - sweet fatty foods - activate the opioid system.

That's a potent speedball and EVERYBODY's hooked.

And as Rat Park shows - it's an inevitable effect of environmental distress which nobody in current society can see - because nobody has even seen anything other.

Food preferences change.
Markets develop around what sells (demand and supply).
People die.

-*-

All we need see (thread nature) is that overcoming distress through constructing a globally flat structure (not a hierarchical structure for man) in terms of 'worth' will reactively alter food preference
ie true equality and not simply pretend equality - the capacity to vote for whether we're imprisoned within cells with either blue or red walls.

Glutamate = essential food for the brain
Exorphin = also found in spinach and shown to improve the learning ability of rodents
Caseomorphin = antidiarrheal

People have always died. It's a side effect of living.

SB_UK
01-30-16, 07:19 AM
Glutamate = essential food for the brain
Exorphin = also found in spinach and shown to improve the learning ability of rodents
Caseomorphin = antidiarrheal

People have always died. It's a side effect of living.

glutamate - levels ie endogenous vs exogenously administered.
exorphin - pouring petrol over a lit candle - yes it burns faster.
caseomorphin - constipation

Lunacie
01-30-16, 01:09 PM
Glutamate = essential food for the brain
Exorphin = also found in spinach and shown to improve the learning ability of rodents
Caseomorphin = antidiarrheal

People have always died. It's a side effect of living.

glutamate - levels ie endogenous vs exogenously administered.
exorphin - pouring petrol over a lit candle - yes it burns faster.
caseomorphin - constipation

Nothing is all good. Nothing is all bad either.

SB_UK
01-31-16, 03:53 AM
Character traits of lower evolutionary states (competition) when in a higher evolutionary state (collaboration) represent bad and good.

Ideas are meant to build not colapse one another - though it's interesting that both lead to what might be called (one called/felt whilst the other just felt as) an empty mind.