View Full Version : Treatment resistant depression


Fuzzy12
02-01-16, 06:07 PM
It's just so bloody unfair. Maybe all diseases and illnesses are unfair. I guess they are. Nature isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Some people just draw a short straw and they are screwed. Life over..or not worth living. What makes it even more unfair in the case of depression is that so many people barely accept that it's an illness...let alone a serious one that can kill..or make people wish they were dead.

I mean what are you supposed to do when you know that tomorrow won't be better, when tomorrow is just going to be more of 'now' and 'now' just isn't something you'd want to perpetuate. When you have tried everything and nothing has helped. When you don't want to try anymore. When you are just too tired?

We are not all born equal. Of course we aren't and I always thought it's OK...unfair, of course, but inevitable. Some people never get a chance..either because of the environment they've been born in or because of the body they've been born with. But what if you are the one who drew the short straw? Then it's not just unfair anymore. It's game over.

Depression is cruel. It robs you of the ability to do any of the things that might help you to get out of the hell hole. And at some point it makes you not even want to get better. If you lose interest in everything then losing interest in living and being alive is inevitable too. Of all the bloody things to not procrastinate...to not be too tired for.

What a bloody waste of a life. And that voice. Anyway what do I know. RIP.

(Just ranting. This isn't about me. I'm ok.)

aeon
02-01-16, 08:47 PM
I mean what are you supposed to do when you know that tomorrow won't be better, when tomorrow is just going to be more of 'now' and 'now' just isn't something you'd want to perpetuate. When you have tried everything and nothing has helped. When you don't want to try anymore. When you are just too tired?

I donít know. I wish I knew, but I donít.

I still try to do whatever, because otherwise all there is left is snuffing it.

I will say this: I stopped thinking about things in terms of fairness years ago, because I knew that if I didnít, it would have driven me mad.


Namaste,
Ian

burger
02-01-16, 09:35 PM
There's still new stuff coming out to treat resistant depression and different ways to treat it. It's definitely not a hopeless situation.

Fuzzy12
02-01-16, 11:57 PM
There's still new stuff coming out to treat resistant depression and different ways to treat it. It's definitely not a hopeless situation.
Yes, I guess, that's true. :(:(

aeon
02-02-16, 12:10 AM
For Treatment-Resistant Major Depressive Disorder...ask your doctor about, and damned well insist on...Dexedrine™.

Accept no substitutes!

---

OK, I had to introduce a little levity, well, because that’s just how I am, but I was also thinking about the fact that Dex is the single-most effective antidepressant I have ever known.


Cheers,
Ian

Pilgrim
02-02-16, 01:48 AM
Hey aeon, I could have wrote both your posts. And Depression does suck,

Toss4n
02-02-16, 07:26 AM
Is it just me or is treatment-resistant depression kind of always found in people with similar symptoms to ADHD-PI? It would seem to me at least that some of these, if not all, are just undiagnosed adhd-sufferers.

Joseph Shield
02-02-16, 08:07 AM
Goal setting and positive affirmations are good tools which you can use to mange and overcome depression.

Does anybody know how to get your email verified? I never recevied an email :(

Maheshwara
02-09-16, 08:02 PM
It's just so bloody unfair. Maybe all diseases and illnesses are unfair. I guess they are. Nature isn't fair. Life isn't fair. Some people just draw a short straw and they are screwed. Life over..or not worth living. What makes it even more unfair in the case of depression is that so many people barely accept that it's an illness...let alone a serious one that can kill..or make people wish they were dead.

I mean what are you supposed to do when you know that tomorrow won't be better, when tomorrow is just going to be more of 'now' and 'now' just isn't something you'd want to perpetuate. When you have tried everything and nothing has helped. When you don't want to try anymore. When you are just too tired?

We are not all born equal. Of course we aren't and I always thought it's OK...unfair, of course, but inevitable. Some people never get a chance..either because of the environment they've been born in or because of the body they've been born with. But what if you are the one who drew the short straw? Then it's not just unfair anymore. It's game over.

Depression is cruel. It robs you of the ability to do any of the things that might help you to get out of the hell hole. And at some point it makes you not even want to get better. If you lose interest in everything then losing interest in living and being alive is inevitable too. Of all the bloody things to not procrastinate...to not be too tired for.

What a bloody waste of a life. And that voice. Anyway what do I know. RIP.

(Just ranting. This isn't about me. I'm ok.)

Yea i agree with everything you said, and i also know whom you are refering too.

Actually just now found out about it, got so triggered so i had to make an account here. Or well i've been planning to create one for a good while but never realy got it...

Is it just me or is treatment-resistant depression kind of always found in people with similar symptoms to ADHD-PI? It would seem to me at least that some of these, if not all, are just undiagnosed adhd-sufferers.

Not sure what PI stands for, but i'm a combined.
Most of my own personal depression stems from personal failures and lack of getting others to understand my situation. So it becomes an endless loop.
Some days are better than others though, and i use no medicine because they aren't working infact they just makes things worse.

Fuzzy12
02-10-16, 12:54 AM
:grouphug::(

Meds can help. Not everyone but they do help a lot of people. Nothing worked for my depression except stimulants really. I was quite surprised when i realised that treating my adhd had the pleasant side effect of getting rid of depression. But then maybe a lot of my depression was caused by adhd. Unfortunately they aren't an option for everyone. I just got lucky. :(

Toss4n
02-10-16, 07:56 AM
Not sure what PI stands for, but i'm a combined.
Most of my own personal depression stems from personal failures and lack of getting others to understand my situation. So it becomes an endless loop.
Some days are better than others though, and i use no medicine because they aren't working infact they just makes things worse.

Primarily inattentive, so adhd without the hyperactivity. I think that many people with it tend to have it more difficult in life, which in turn turns into depression at some point when you've struggled long enough and you don't know/understand why (maybe I'm projecting here, but that's at least how it was for me) and other people don't seem to "get it". It's just really frustrating sometimes. I tried going off my meds, but it just made everything worse, so I'm right now on a combo of escitalopram (helps with mood) + bupropion (helps with energy and a tiny bit with focus).

Maheshwara
02-12-16, 01:14 PM
Primarily inattentive, so adhd without the hyperactivity. I think that many people with it tend to have it more difficult in life, which in turn turns into depression at some point when you've struggled long enough and you don't know/understand why (maybe I'm projecting here, but that's at least how it was for me) and other people don't seem to "get it". It's just really frustrating sometimes. I tried going off my meds, but it just made everything worse, so I'm right now on a combo of escitalopram (helps with mood) + bupropion (helps with energy and a tiny bit with focus).

Yea i see, sounds just like me then. Story of my life basicly.
But as mentioned above i'm combined as i've hyper issue aswell.

Sorry for the late reply, i forgot my password to login, and i didn't recieve a new one on my mail so i had to keep trying to find my password. :p

KarmanMonkey
02-19-16, 12:25 PM
A few things to consider:

1) Treatment resistant just means that medications aren't the solution. At best, meds are maybe 10% of what leads us to recovery. I have seen many people with treatment resistant depression recover and have awesome lives... In their cases it's about the supports, the attitudes of the people around them, and changes that they make to their own ways of thinking.

2) There's a lot of new evidence out there that treatment resistant depression is often, in fact, poorly managed ADD. Focus on managing the ADD and the depression will ebb.

Don't let the evil phrase "treatment resistant" prevent you from seeking recovery. Do your best to foster hope in yourself, and to connect to the values you hold dear. And keep talking to us too :-)

Edit: I realized I wrote in the third person mostly... I struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression since I was about 8yo. I am sensitive to medications, and therefore cannot tolerate a therapeutic dose of most meds. Now I love life (though my 1yo is really sucking the energy out of me) and I haven't thought about suicide except to help other people through it, or to reflect on my past self... No suicidal thoughts in years! And that's with minimal medical intervention.

Fuzzy12
02-19-16, 01:32 PM
A few things to consider:

1) Treatment resistant just means that medications aren't the solution. At best, meds are maybe 10% of what leads us to recovery. I have seen many people with treatment resistant depression recover and have awesome lives... In their cases it's about the supports, the attitudes of the people around them, and changes that they make to their own ways of thinking.

2) There's a lot of new evidence out there that treatment resistant depression is often, in fact, poorly managed ADD. Focus on managing the ADD and the depression will ebb.

Don't let the evil phrase "treatment resistant" prevent you from seeking recovery. Do your best to foster hope in yourself, and to connect to the values you hold dear. And keep talking to us too :-)

Edit: I realized I wrote in the third person mostly... I struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression since I was about 8yo. I am sensitive to medications, and therefore cannot tolerate a therapeutic dose of most meds. Now I love life (though my 1yo is really sucking the energy out of me) and I haven't thought about suicide except to help other people through it, or to reflect on my past self... No suicidal thoughts in years! And that's with minimal medical intervention.

Sometimes, all that is not enough to restore someone's quality of life to a standard that makes it tolerable for them. :(

At other times, none of those things matter or even seem desirable when you are in the grip of depression. Maybe hope is the final casualty of depression. :(

I just hate to think that anyone could be so depressed that they take their own life. Maybe because I struggle to relate to that. I've always had a problem with suicidal ideation, I've often not wanted to continue living the way I am but I've never really wanted to be dead. To just be nothing. I've never been seriously suicidal. Maybe it's just because I'm too scared to die but I think, partly it's also because I don't want to miss out. More than anything, I guess, I've just been lucky enough to not have experienced that kind of depression or that loss of hope or interest. I guess, there are all kinds of reasons why people commit suicide and severe depression is just one of them but I just think that it's so unfair. I mean, how unlucky can anyone get to be struck down by an illness that makes it impossible to do or want to do any of the things that you could possibly do to fight this illness??

DJ Bill
02-19-16, 01:54 PM
It kinda sounds like you may have had a recent suicide attempt in your circle of friends. Is that the case? If so, my sincerest condolences to you. Having ben a survivor to three suicides in my life, I too well know the pain inflicted by a suicide of a loved one. It does eventually fade, but you have to be in a good place for it to do that.

It does seem unfair, but you hit on what the reasoning is behind it. A lack of hope is the final straw for many of us. We have to search out hope in whatever form makes sense to us, a higher power, knowledge of others who have gotten better, other people, etc. Giving up is not an option that ends well. :grouphug:

daveddd
02-19-16, 03:52 PM
A few things to consider:

1) Treatment resistant just means that medications aren't the solution. At best, meds are maybe 10% of what leads us to recovery. I have seen many people with treatment resistant depression recover and have awesome lives... In their cases it's about the supports, the attitudes of the people around them, and changes that they make to their own ways of thinking.

2) There's a lot of new evidence out there that treatment resistant depression is often, in fact, poorly managed ADD. Focus on managing the ADD and the depression will ebb.

Don't let the evil phrase "treatment resistant" prevent you from seeking recovery. Do your best to foster hope in yourself, and to connect to the values you hold dear. And keep talking to us too :-)

Edit: I realized I wrote in the third person mostly... I struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression since I was about 8yo. I am sensitive to medications, and therefore cannot tolerate a therapeutic dose of most meds. Now I love life (though my 1yo is really sucking the energy out of me) and I haven't thought about suicide except to help other people through it, or to reflect on my past self... No suicidal thoughts in years! And that's with minimal medical intervention.

do you have some evidence that treatment resistant depression is just ADD?

sounds like something id like reading

.........................




adderal has helped my depression for a day or two here or there

but never permanent , and I'm not sure but i don't think a stimulant helping depression means its just ADHD

i do think that ADHD (ADHD defined as emotional disregulation) plays a role

daveddd
02-19-16, 03:56 PM
the PI definition is misleading, i don't think they use it anymore

if you have problems with emotional regulation you're combined

aeon
02-19-16, 10:03 PM
the PI definition is misleading, i don't think they use it anymore

if you have problems with emotional regulation you're combined

The PI subclassification is present within, and current as of the DSM-V.

Also, the DSM-V still has no mention of the major component that is emotional regulation.

I am Dxíd ADHD-PI...I have all the inattentive symptoms, most of the impulsive ones, none of the hyperactive ones, and I certainly have emotional dysregulation in that I feel most everything deeply, regardless of the nature of the stimulus.


Cheers,
Ian

daveddd
02-19-16, 11:13 PM
Impulsive is combined too.

I can't believe how many impulsive people have a pi dx

Dizfriz a member psychologist hated it

Barkley is upset no emo regulation in dsm

It is very prominent in the diagnostic handbook though

Another strike for the dsm

Snake-Eater
02-29-16, 11:24 AM
For Treatment-Resistant Major Depressive Disorder...ask your doctor about, and damned well insist on...Dexedrineô.

Accept no substitutes!

---

OK, I had to introduce a little levity, well, because thatís just how I am, but I was also thinking about the fact that Dex is the single-most effective antidepressant I have ever known.


Cheers,
Ian

Jus don't get Barr/ teva Dex, more side effects than benefits. There was one night after work I actually felt the AD benefits of it though and felt great.

sarahsweets
02-29-16, 12:44 PM
I remember reading a study where they treating treatment resistant depression with provigil and I think stimulants. Wish I could find it.

aeon
02-29-16, 05:03 PM
Jus don't get Barr/ teva Dex, more side effects than benefits.

Thatís not my experience...to me, Barr is gold.

Iíve had Amedra (brand), Mallinckrodt, and Barr.

All three have been great.


Cheers,
Ian

Fuzzy12
02-29-16, 06:59 PM
I remember reading a study where they treating treatment resistant depression with provigil and I think stimulants. Wish I could find it.

For me stimulants made all the difference.

Fuzzy12
02-29-16, 07:00 PM
Thatís not my experience...to me, Barr is gold.

Iíve had Amedra (brand), Mallinckrodt, and Barr.

All three have been great.


Cheers,
Ian

Phew..I'm almost glad that here we get only one brand of Dex (auden mckenzie if i remember right). The choice and uncertainty would have driven me crazy. Thankfully that one brand worked well for me though.

Snake-Eater
03-31-16, 06:18 PM
Thatís not my experience...to me, Barr is gold.

Iíve had Amedra (brand), Mallinckrodt, and Barr.

All three have been great.


Cheers,
Ian

Their adderall ir is great IME. Had bad pns/appetite/sleep sides with the dexedrine, goes to show everyone is different.

weaselish
05-20-16, 09:52 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695217/
I assume you're talking about this one from 2009 or related studies

BBSurf37
05-25-16, 08:50 PM
Well..... I do know how you feel. I have been there. I used my Faith in God. Hard but I guess when I was feeling the same way you do, I had to find lessons in the rain sort of speak. I had to have courage to grind it out day after day. I prayed every morning and every night. I read the bible and I started taking heart to what the bible said about many things. As of now I'm no longer feeling the same way but I'm also not out of the woods with certain life circumstances. I look back and see that my younger self was able to make changes easier for my life to be better. But as I got older, changes were harder to make and i had to learn to grow. From what others have told me, they don't see my younger self (the self I am more familiar with) but someone who has more understanding, knowledge, compassion, and maturity. Don't know if this helps you but I'll keep you in mind with my prayers.

DJgirl
06-17-16, 12:43 PM
:grouphug::(

Meds can help. Not everyone but they do help a lot of people. Nothing worked for my depression except stimulants really. I was quite surprised when i realised that treating my adhd had the pleasant side effect of getting rid of depression. But then maybe a lot of my depression was caused by adhd. Unfortunately they aren't an option for everyone. I just got lucky. :(

i am treatment resistant as well and we did try stimulants because my psychiatrist said they help some with depression, unfortunately not me, but some. like others have said, i stopped thinking about fairness a long time ago otherwise i would have gone crazy. plus there is always new stuff coming out, just hang in there. have you thought about TMS or ECT?

Fuzzy12
06-19-16, 05:55 AM
Thanks everyone for the support. Just to clarify again: this thread wasn't about me but about someone who believed that their depression wasn't treatable and who committed suicide.

At the moment I think I'm not even depressed though I'm sort of aware of its ever lurking presence just around the corner. Also, while I didn't respond well to anti depressants or mood stabilisers dexamphetamine did wonders for my depression.

Dj girl, what's tms?

afterdinner
06-23-16, 01:43 AM
Depression sucks balls. If you have people you can really open up to then that definitely helps. Exercise is good, release natural seratonin and endorphins. I was always hesitant to take meds, I've seen how they affect some people and it isn't good, but yeah, it's not the same for everyone.

20thcenturyfox
09-25-16, 01:36 AM
Is it just me or is treatment-resistant depression kind of always found in people with similar symptoms to ADHD-PI? It would seem to me at least that some of these, if not all, are just undiagnosed adhd-sufferers.

But that is certainly what I have come to suspect is true in my case.

20thcenturyfox
10-16-16, 09:27 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695217/
I assume you're talking about this one from 2009 or related studies

Thanks for citing this article, weaselish. Called "ADHD and CoMorbid Depression," it was a Canadian attempt to introduce Canadian psychiatrists to the persistence of ADHD, diagnosed and undiagnosed, into adulthood, alert them that it often presents as depression, and provide a quick screen, differential diagnosis and treatment algorithm.

Since this came out a few years after my Canadian psychiatrist became suspicious that my concentration-not-mood depression might actually be ADHD (about which I knew nothing), I have to credit her with being ahead of the curve.

Anyway, the article's focus is clinical, but it sent me on a cyberrampage of other articles leading up to this one, which explores the neurobiology which links ADHD and...you guessed it!...treatment resistant depression originating in the same reward pathways as some ADHD pathology.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5003599/pdf/ndt-12-2149.pdf
(you'll need your brain map handy for this one).

C15H25N3O
11-16-16, 09:33 AM
My fingers are too fast to read the whole thread but I searched it for KETAMINE.

This substance is usually a anaesthetic narcotic in animals and human medicine.

There have been many studies and it works with a single infusion on "untreatable depressions".

Low dosed it can decrease "symptoms" to 50%, 30% or 0% in many cases.

FDA actually fast-tracks it for depression treatment.

A treatment means going to the doc, lay down on the patients bed, get the infusion, enjoy its

effect (thoughts pixeling out), infusion is taken off, relax an hour, go home and feel much better.

I know, this sounds too wonderful to be true but it is reality and KETAMINE is a standard in surgery.

Over here some docs do this treatment already off-label.

No more swallowing pills like candy and waiting weeks, months and year for a better life!

Ask for it!

Aladin
11-16-16, 10:08 AM
From what I heard, Ketamine looks promising but has strong side effects, which makes it an option when a person is suicidal but not more than that. There has been some progress ?

Also has someone tried a MAOI ? I am about to try Nardil. Apparently it is one of the most efficient AD when it comes to depression and social anxiety.

C15H25N3O
11-18-16, 05:07 AM
Ketamine is a daily used in surgery, no alien substance, and the worst side-effect is some people like to abuse it.

I observed side-effects increasing or decreasing heart rate and bloodpressure which can feel uncomfortable.
The so called halluzinations depend on the anaesthetic effect because it is not knocking out and make
you sleep but it works positive in the neuro-chemics. it is far away from a psychedelic.

I think it could be a perfect treatment e.g. also for burnout-syndrom because it shuts down your system
and restarts your mental hard disc like rebuilding the system while recovery for clean performance.

Low dosages knock less out than local anastaetics you get while wisdom teeth extraction.

I think it will be the future if they dont prefer a derivate without the side-effects I mentioned because
they depend on the neuro-chemical reset process. It might be the wrong therapy for people who prefer
hugging their pills box. I have ADHD and I reject to try out ADs to find out if I suffer a depression.

I would appreciate a FDA-approval to try it on any depressions to get the patients out of them as fast
as possible to avoid the depression to become a consolidate state.

Can I sign a petition?

C15H25N3O
11-21-16, 05:35 PM
Ketamine once again:

https://www.jnj.com/media-center/press-releases/esketamine-recieves-breakthrough-therapy-designation-from-us-food-and-drug-administration-for-major-depressive-disorder-with-imminent-risk-of-suicide

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20160818/fda-ketamine-depression

From other sources I also read it could be sold as a nasal spray in the future. When is future?

jjwalters
01-17-17, 11:08 AM
I've been researching KETAMINE ever since seeing this video by a Columbia University neuroscientist:
[url]www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_brachman_could_a_drug_prevent_depression_a nd_ptsd
It's a approved drug that shows a lot of promise. Actually gives some hope!

sarahsweets
01-17-17, 12:26 PM
There are also some clinical studies Ill have to dig up that were testing the use of provigil for treatment resistant depression.

Aladin
01-26-17, 10:40 PM
Ketamine is a daily used in surgery, no alien substance, and the worst side-effect is some people like to abuse it.

I observed side-effects increasing or decreasing heart rate and bloodpressure which can feel uncomfortable.
The so called halluzinations depend on the anaesthetic effect because it is not knocking out and make
you sleep but it works positive in the neuro-chemics. it is far away from a psychedelic.

I think it could be a perfect treatment e.g. also for burnout-syndrom because it shuts down your system
and restarts your mental hard disc like rebuilding the system while recovery for clean performance.

Low dosages knock less out than local anastaetics you get while wisdom teeth extraction.

I think it will be the future if they dont prefer a derivate without the side-effects I mentioned because
they depend on the neuro-chemical reset process. It might be the wrong therapy for people who prefer
hugging their pills box. I have ADHD and I reject to try out ADs to find out if I suffer a depression.

I would appreciate a FDA-approval to try it on any depressions to get the patients out of them as fast
as possible to avoid the depression to become a consolidate state.

Can I sign a petition?

Trying an AD to know if you re depressed doesn t make any sense. If you have depression trust me you know it. And even if one is too blind to see it, a doctor will hardly miss it.

Aladin
01-26-17, 10:47 PM
I observed side-effects increasing or decreasing heart rate and bloodpressure which can feel uncomfortable.
The so called halluzinations depend on the anaesthetic effect because it is not knocking out and make
you sleep but it works positive in the neuro-chemics. it is far away from a psychedelic.

I think it could be a perfect treatment e.g. also for burnout-syndrom because it shuts down your system
and restarts your mental hard disc like rebuilding the system while recovery for clean performance.


I think it will be the future if they dont prefer a derivate without the side-effects I mentioned because
they depend on the neuro-chemical reset process. It might be the wrong therapy for people who prefer
hugging their pills box. I have ADHD and I reject to try out ADs to find out if I suffer a depression.

I would appreciate a FDA-approval to try it on any depressions to get the patients out of them as fast
as possible to avoid the depression to become a consolidate state.

Can I sign a petition?

It s restarts your mentala hard disk ? Yeah... that s a little more complicated. Don't get me wrong it seems that ketamine is promising but there still some questions unanswered, as the long term effect on health, or how can relapse be avoided once the treatment is complete ?

excelsior
02-07-17, 09:05 PM
Have you looked into the possibility that you have seasonal depression? I get the winter blues, and d3-prescribed by my doctor- has REALLY helped.

cwf1986
02-13-17, 04:36 AM
People keep on mentioning the new treatments coming out, but there's also the older ones that will sometimes work better for some people than the newer ones.

Namely, there's the tricyclic class and the maoi class of antidepressants.

I've even read of people's experiences when taking a combination of parnate, nortriptyline, and dexedrine.

I take a combination of nortriptyline, adderall, and intuniv and the combination helps immensely with depression, adhd, and anxiety.

They give me enough relief so I have the clarity and motivation to employ strategies given to me by my therapist which further helps.