What is the difference between behavior that is referred to as "hyperactive", and that which is referred to as "impulsive"?

Does hyperactive refer to a sustained activity, like incessant talking, fidgeting, pacing, or finding every excuse to get up because one feels the need to be DOING something (ANYTHING) almost constantly?

And impulsive behavior refers to discrete, spontaneous movements, whether a comment blurted out or an impulsive purchase?

So the same behaviors can fall under either heading, hyperactivity or impulsivity, but the difference is whether they are discrete activities or constant activity?? Is that it?

Just wondering... doing my best to learn the lexicon so that I am using a common language when describing my behavioral tendencies. :o

For me it works out as follows:

Hyperactive in an excessive, subconscious, uncontrollablephysical action and your description above fits...incessant LOUD talking, fidgeting, foot tapping, whistling, finger tapping, chewing nails, inability to sit at all!!!, etc. The only non-medical way to help this is large amounts of exercise, as far as I have been able to see.

Impulsivity (though not always discrete) is not a physical impulse, but a thought-impulse which almost always comes about from not being able to "stop and think" before making a decision about taking some kind of action (talking, buying, jumping out of a tree, etc.)We have had more luck treating this with behavioral modification therapy.

Hope that all makes sense.

Kim

Wwow great question...

And my favorite pussycat you have a great answer.

Now one question, :) I know i am both, impulsive and hyper.

Can you just be hyper physicaly and not be mentally»?

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I can. It's two separate issues for me and I can be so physically hyper that my brain just shuts down and can't put two and two together. I call it "mud for brains"! lol

Kim

If my definitions of the two hold, then yes, Digitl, both physical and mental actions can be classified under either heading. Why, what are your impusive or hyperactive behaviors like?

As for me, I guess I would describe my neurological configuration and my resulting behaviors as:

Attention Deficit Disorder, inattentive type
with:
physical impulsivity
some verbal hyperactivity
very debilitating executive function problems

The last part is the most important part, for me, and I think that my executive function issues stem from the inattentiveness. I am inattentive to my surrounding environment, whether the people around me, the things around me, what I am doing where I am and with the things around me (imagine a spacey woman walking down the vegetable aisle staring vacantly at all the veggies, then finally kicking herself out of her reverie and remembering to ask herself, "Which veggies am I in this aisle to pick up???"), and inattentive to my life as a whole. When you are so "out of it", how can you watch what you are doing and remember what you are doing or meant to do?

Hey, sorry, folks-- didn't mean to veer away from the subject of the thread in my little self-analysis in my last post.

If anyone else has any ideas about the difference between impulsivity and hyperactivity, please do share them. And I do always love hearing about other people's ADD-related patterns. It's so interesting to see how alike we all are, and how different we all are!

I posted a very similar question- although not as well written :) on this very subject. I am learning things about myself I did not know and one of them is how I am affected by ADD.

I can't answer this question but I would like to put out there what happens to me and see if any of you can tell me what this is.....

I've written lots of posts about my 'sensory overload'. I know that comes from poor filters to outside stimuli. I will give you a situation and then describe what it feels like.

I most often am 'hyper' in my mind. I have a zillion things running thru my head and I often am so preoccupied with my own thoughts I miss out on things. As the thoughts build in my mind I tend to get busy-- usually physically moving faster, talking faster etc. Now if extra stimuli is added to the commotion going on in my head I have what I think of as a ping pong ball in my head. Things start pinging this way and that way and I move faster to keep up. If the outside stimuli increases the ping pong ball will move from my 'head' to my body and now I am bouncing off walls. Most often now at my age (40's) this becomes anxiety. I get wound very tight. My muscles tighten, my whole body tenses.

I think when I was younger it used to be more fun to get real wound up....but its not anymore- especially with kids. They need me to be calm so they don't begin to feel like I feel. If they see mom rushing around like a chicken with her head cut off then what are they going to think? When I get like this my brain shuts down. It is very hard to do anything.

I also have the impulsivity- not thinking before doing. I find there is a fine line between the right amount of adderall and too much because if I go just on this side of too much the impulsivity really comes out. Or at least it seems that way to me.

My doctor has me on an antidepressant that kind of balances the stimulant but the antidepressant can make me feel tired or maybe it takes that edge off of things that I am used to. Without the edge I can't do what I normally do. I really just want to be in the middle....anyone else find its like this for them too?

Hmm... no, that doesn't sound quite like me, Fly Away. I know it is very validating to hear someone else say, "Oh that is me exactly!" Or even better, "Oh that is me exactly and I will tell you how I have learned to deal with it very well so that you can learn from what I have learned!"

Ah, I wish I could offer you something better! Maybe try posting a new thread and describe that experience again and maybe someone will have some better ideas?

Flighty,


How would you describe your physical impulsiveness? I've never heard that term before.

Flighty,

How would you describe your physical impulsiveness? I've never heard that term before. I am not sure that it is a familiar term that other people use, but it seems to fit my behaviors.

Let me copy and paste part of my post from another thread to give you an idea of my physical impulsivity. At the time I wrote it, I think I used the word "hyperactivity" because I didn't really know what was what.

Here it is:

originally posted by Way Too Flighty, in the thread: The Brighter Side of Hyperactivity and Impulsivity

My hyperactivity is often in the form of a drive for exhilaration. So I have several delightful, quirky behaviors that stem from this exhilaration drive.

I LOVE to run around outside in the POURING rain! In my area, we get these torrential rains sometimes in the Spring and Summer, where it is really pretty warm out, maybe 70 to 85 degrees F, and the rain will come pouring down in TORRENTS!! I take my shoes off, run outside and then run in circles, spin around, splash in puddles, turn my face skyward and catch the drops in my mouth, and laugh with delight! Since it is warmish out anyway, you don't have to worry about getting chilled to the bone. Also, this often happens on the really hot HOT days, so it might have been 95 degrees but the wondrous, beautiful rain comes pouring down to cool everything off. My parents always say, "When are you going to grow up? Are you too stupid to stay out of the rain?!" Now that they know I have ADHD, I think they are beginning to understand that this is not immaturity, but just one of my strange quirks that I personally hope I will never outgrow. :)

I jump up and try to reach the ceiling on a regular basis-- many times a day, usually. Strange, I know.

I do cartwheels often. Usually several in a row. :)

I am not capable of doing a handstand without something to lean against, but I will often find a good section of a wall with no furniture in the way, and get a short running start, bend over, put my hands to the floor and kick my legs up, leaning my feet against the wall for a few seconds. It's fun!

I like to run for a few seconds, and then jump, doing a little 360 in the air (or almost 360). I have seen figure skaters do this, but I just do it in regular shoes (or barefoot), usually outside. I often do it in sets of three. :) That is only about half of my post. That was a fun thread-- my favorite, I think!

See, most of my need to move is in the form of short isolated bursts of movement. Most of my bursts of movement are as brief as getting up and jumping once, maybe twice. Then I do have these longer bouts of movement, I guess you could say the short bursts, like jumping once, are like one firecracker going off, whereas the longer bursts, like my running around in circles in the rain for 20 minutes, are like fireworks-- more prolonged but still not constant like how I defined "hyperactivity" in this thread. I might sit calmly for a half hour before these movement bursts, and again for a half-hour afterward. I sometimes shake my leg a little, but I have never been a huge fidgeter. And I can't relate so much to the trouble a lot of people with ADD have reading. I have read countless books in my life. I love to read. BUT, I can't imagine sitting entirely still for 4 or 5 hours reading, I WILL get up and do the touch the ceiling thing, or the cartwheel thing in the middle of reading-- and I often hardly know I am doing it! I will also have many many moments of inattention while reading. So I read much slower than neurotypicals, I guess, but still, I love to read and I can't imagine stopping. That was a digression. I guess my point was just that what I experience is different than many in that my need for physical movement is a strong urge that I get sporadically, not so constantly that it would really impair something like reading.

Does this make sense? Feel free to ask more questions, I love sharing. And feel free to share your experience, I love listening. (or reading as the case may be) :)

I loved reading that post too. That definitely is the brighter side of ADD.

I understand the exhilaration drive because I think I have it too but mine is beaten down more than yours. I had a really great day after a string of bad. This was just last week or so. I was really up and excited. (I love to have something to be excited about! I am forever scannin the horizon for something new to look forward to.)

I ended up meeting with some new people that day to discuss a project we will be working on together. Of course my good mood translates into poor impulse control because the excitment level is up so....I interrupted right and left with all my great ideas. (They were great ideas too- thats why I couldn't hold it in!) I got maybe a tad too interested in what was being discussed in the meeting. I jumped ahead in topics and dominated the conversation. In short I felt like I made a fool out of myself.

It used to be I never was phased by this stuff because I was having fun and it was kind of contagious. I think the people around me liked the energy and liveliness I brought with me on days like that but now I am in a new situation wiht new people who don't know me as well. I am in a different age group. I feel like a teen ager on the inside and a middle aged mom on the outside. I feel foolish and immature and slightly (!!) whacko.

I don't know if its because I am just becoming more aware of how I act or what but the exilaration begins to feel like mania-- and I know its not because I've not been dx'd bipolar. It could be that I am feeling good after having felt very bad the last couple years and by comparison I feel like I am at an extreme when in fact I am just feeling good. But it makes me feel like an odd ball because I feel things so much more than what it appears that other people do. It may be that they hide it better than I do too, I don't know. I think my age is a factor because now it stands out more and the fact that this is all new to me even though its not new. I have new awareness of old behaviors. What fun!


Gosh, I sure know how to kill another person's enthusiasm! I am sorry. I will lighten up!

I do want to say I would like being around you because I would enjoy your sense of wonder and enthusiasm. I would like your physical impulsiveness! I would much rather be around someone who is active than very sedate. My complaining about myself in no way means I see something not enjoyable in you. I hope you don't take it that way.

As I am writing this I have thought that what I likely have to do for my sanity is to seek out more people like myself. I may feel odd because the people around me may be on the other end of the spectrum by being very reserved, shy and quiet (which is fine except when I am a motor mouth and taking over a meeting).

I think thats were this forum is helpful. Thanks for sharing Way too Flighty.

You are so welcome, Fly Away!

I am glad to hear what you have to share. I didn't take offense to what you said in the least, But you did get me thinking about the kind of behavior that people expect and the kind of impression that we give based on our behavior. Kinda dampened my spirits a little, because I realized that maybe part of why people enjoy my exhuberance is that they see me as youthful. For me, that fits, because I am 23. But will that end at some point? Will there come a time when it will just begin to look immature? Perhaps it does sometimes already. :( I don't know, I probably wouldn't pick up on it if it did.

But you know, you are right about what you realized. That is one of the things Hallowell and Ratey say in their latest book-- about the importance of surrounding yourself with people who like and appreciate the way you are. Yes, you are slightly wacko. But you are a delightful, creative, energetic, talented wacko. I wouldn't have you any other way, and I hardly know you, Darling! Do you have many other people in your life who feel this way? Also, nearly every ADD professional would tell you that one of the most important steps toward a successful and happy life with ADD is to choose the right job. Are you in a job that harnesses your energy and talent?

Flighty,


I love your signature. You need to become a writer!

Sometimes being in the clouds is a great place to be!

I wanted to say that I am 20 yrs behind you in learning about myself and ADD so please don't let what I wrote damper your spirits. My h and I were talking about this new insight that I have about my behavior and we think the problem I described really comes down to learning self-regulation. When I feel good I feel very good and bubble all over and when I feel bad I feel very bad. I usually don't know it until I am pretty far along and become overstimulated. My new awareness should help me to recognize when this comes about so that I can keep myself from getting overstimulated.

I can see from your posts that you are learning and recognizing new things about yourself too. I can see you've got a good handle on things so don't doubt yourself.

You had asked about career and I wanted to say I am in the middle of all kinds of changes so that complicates the ADD issues. I am pursuing new interests and trying to work with my strengths. I enjoy art and have begun to do more of this. I also am in the process of putting together ideas I have for a promoting creativity using different learning styles. Its fun to research and I have people willing to let me 'experiment' on them with my ideas.

What are you pursuing in your studies?

Aww Fly Away you are so kind to me!! It was really touching to me that you said I should be a writer, because that is both what I love most and what I struggle with the most! And I am not even a creative writer! (At least not creative in the artistic sense, although I believe that all writing is creative, or almost all anyway.)

I guess you could say that I am an academic writer, except that I can't write. Heh! You are thinking, okay, Flighty has just flown away-- the chick's lost me here! Well, hmm... in school I am your basic liberal arts student. I major in Sociology and minor in History. (If you are outside of the US and aren't familiar with the American terms major and minor, it basically refers to your major area of concentrated focus, where you take the greatest number of courses, and then your minor area of concentrated focus, where you take a lot of courses, but not as many as for your major.) And I love it, with all the passion in my soul. I especially love sociology. I have been told I am basically a graduate student with undergraduate status. I sometimes get frustrated with my classes because the level of thinking they demand is usually rather low. When I do manage to get my work done, it's A-level work hands down, and its the kind of work that my professors respond to with comments like, "Wow, are you considering graduate school? You should be!" But Fly Away, I can't DO it! I thought for a while that it was a matter of will or habit, that it was something I could change if I really wanted to. So I changed my attitude toward deadlines, and I began to try to get old late work done and keep up with new work. To my shock and dismay, I still couldn't DO it!!! It's not a matter of will, a matter of effort, or a matter of habit!

And so in these last few weeks, I have had to ponder, "What is it?" I am not accustomed to being very self-aware on the cognitive level. On the emotional level, yes, I am a very mature and self-aware person. But who thinks about the way their brain works? Well, I've had to start thinking about the way my brain works in the last few weeks. And I have figured out that my difficulties with doing my work are without a doubt neurobiologically rooted. They stem from my inattentive ADD.

I have figured out that there is a sort of firewall in my brain between reflective thought and purposive action. I really CAN'T pair the two. This a big problem for something like essay writing, and I imagine it would be for any kind of endeavor that demands some premeditated reflective thought to determine how to go about it. For me, it's like this: I am in my inattentive reverie most of the time, right? So, when I am in that state, the ideas that I want to discuss in my papers come flowing like water. They don't come to me in the form of ideas really-- they are not thoughts that I can actively think about and purposively manipulate in my mind, processing them and articulating them as I please. They come to me already verbalized, whole and complete, exactly how they could be expressed in my paper. If I had a tape recorder for my thoughts, honestly, literally, I would be able to write my papers in my sleep. That's how easily this comes to me; and that is how completely whole the fully verbalized thoughts come to me, so fully verbalized and well-articulated that if I could record them, I would put the words in my paper as they come to me. And literally, sometimes it happens when I am partially asleep, so I wasn't kidding about being able to write papers in my sleep! But the trouble is, even when I am fully awake, I can't pair reflection with purposeful action. I will sit and reflect on what I am going to say in my essay, realize that I am coming up with a lot of good ideas, and then pick up a pen to jot them down and make an outline and then...... NOTHING. Once I have jostled myself out of the reverie of my reflective state, remembering what I was thinking a moment ago is like trying to remember a dream. As soon as I want to actively use my very conscious mind to work with my intellectual reflections, I can't. The thoughts are gone. I no longer have access to them. If I have to hear one more time, "You are having trouble organizing your paper? Oh I have the solution! Write an outline!" I am going to pull all of my hair out, and you'll have a pile of red hair on the floor. Ouch that sounds painful, never mind I won't do that. But I will scream my frustration if I have to hear one more obvious solution. I've tried all the obvious solutions!! If it were as easy as writing an outline, I wouldn't have 2 years worth of unfinished late work and the resulting smattering of F's across my transcript! AHHHHHH! ARGH!!!!! UGHHHHH!!! AHHH ARGHHH!!!

Whew, I had to get that out of my system! Well, I have been struggling with this forever, but I have only just begun to understand it in the last few weeks, Fly Away. I appreciate your comment that I am 20 years ahead of you in learning about myself and ADD, but darlin' I've figured most of this out in the space of less than a month! So you don't have to feel like you are behind, or like you cant figure out a lot quickly. I think the biggest step is learning that we have this ADD brain type, and from there I think it is a steep learning curve to figuring out how it affects us. You also have the benefit of having a husband that has probably been observing your behavior for a good 10 years too, so you can discuss your behavior with someone who has been able to observe you closely.

Anyway, at least now I understand why I have never once in my life been able to simply set aside a reasonable amount of time at a convenient hour to write essays or papers for school. There are only two states in which I am capable of getting my work done: New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Just kidding! Ahhh my sense of humor is unbearable isn't it?!?!! (That's not from ADD, that's from growing up with my corny dad!) No, really now, two mental states in which I can actually work:

1) A very relaxed, absolutely no pressure sort of state. The only way I can get to this state is by lack of intention. If doing my work is responding to a whim, then I can do my work. The reason this works is that I can basically stay in my mental reverie and simply project the happenings in my reverie (my reflective thoughts) onto the page or onto the screen. Right now, for example, I am projecting my thoughts onto the screen without effort or any particular intention. If you asked me to write a structured, well-organized essay saying much the same things, I'd struggle for months trying to produce it. Another interesting difference between me and a lot of other ADDers is that while many people need high-stimulation or real challenge or just something very interesting to rivet their attention, for me it is the most interesting thoughts that are the nemesis of my prefrontal (or my frontal?) lobes. Scarcely do they materialize before they hop out of reach of my mental grasp. It's very much like when you dream something frightening and awaken with a start. Working in this relaxed state necessitates that I stay in my reverie, but the very thoughts that are most fascinating to me are so exciting that they jostle me out of my reverie and I can't continue thinking them. (On an extremely personal note, this pattern of extreme momentary excitement followed by utter nothingness is something that I experience not only intellectually, but sexually as well. I apologize if I ventured out of anyone's comfort zone with that personal bit. I wouldn't have noted it but for the fact that I am increasingly convinced it is rooted in the same aspects of my particular neurological configuration that make me so prone to patterns we recognize as ADD.)

2) A hyper-stressed state, infused with a life-or-death sense of urgency. By the time I get to this state, it is usually some unGodly hour of the night, or worse, some unGodly hour of the morning, like the time of morning that the rest of the world is rolling into work and I am STILL awake, hyped up on 6 cups of coffee, freaking out because my deadline is in 45 minutes and I still have to finish my paper, run to the comp lab to print it, and then run to class, and I haven't eaten, showered, or brushed my teeth. Or, just as likely, I have been awake for 24 hours, I have drank 8 cups of coffee, haven't eaten, showered, or brushed my teeth, and the deadline was 2 hours ago. The reason I can work in this state is that the frantic urgency allows me to exert conscious control over my thoughts. Thinking for me suddenly becomes not an act akin to dreaming while awake, but a process I can consciously interact with. Only then can I process my thoughts, manipulate them, structure them, and verbalize them as I wish. I think I was about 10 years old the first time I realized that it never matters how much time you give me to do something, I will ALWAYS use all of it, right down to the last minute of the eleventh hour, and often need to ask for a few minutes more. I have always always always been this way. And I am sick of it.

I have come to a point where I don't want to rely on either of these two states to do my work. Neither of them are sustainable for a life of sanity and some reasonable degree of order. But I have not yet come to a point where I know exactly what to do to change this.

I feel a heart-sinking envy of the kids who come to class on time on the day the paper is due with their papers done and looking calm, no bags under their eyes, looking like they have taken the time to shower and put a little bit of care into getting dressed. I wish I could do that. Living the last minute life is no way to live. And I basically don't have the option of living that way anymore anyway, I have gotten post-deadline extensions so many times that I have all but conditioned the last-minute adrenaline response out of me. Forty-five minutes before the thing is due, when my brain is finally kicking in, I'm thinking, "Oh, the professor will let me turn this in a day late." But that very thought turns the adrenaline response off, and puts me back in the state where purposive action short-circuits the very intellectual thought that I need to act on. "A day late" becomes weeks or months late, and I stop going to class out of embarassment and shame. This after I had chattered with the professor about the class with such sincere enthusiasm earlier in the semester. Now what is he or she to think?? I must be a devious brown-noser, and I wasn't sincere about loving the class after all. Oh but I was completely sincere, Professor. I just can't do the work.

I can't rely on the relaxed, no-pressure state either, because it totally precludes any planning. I can only get to that state if I don't mean to. I posted another thread "Don't discipline yourself; instead shift your inclination," basically referring to exactly this method. It's a good trick, if you can somehow make yourself not mean to do your work so that you can do your work, but I don't think that method is sustainable for the long-term either.

So the frantic, urgent state compromises sanity, and the relaxed, intention-less state compromises any organization to the process of productivity. There has got to be a better way, something besides the desperation and sinking self-hatred I feel in the moments when I come down out of the clouds and take a look at my life. I am lucky that my neurological make-up guards me from unhappiness the way it does. If the frequency of co-morbibity of ADD and depression is any indication, many ADDers aren't as lucky as I am to have a beautiful refuge in the clouds. But I have to say, when I do come down out of the clouds and look at the state I have brought my life to, it's enough to depress even me, if only momentarily. (I am neurologically incapable of staying on the ground long.)

The only other non-medicated trick I have been able to come up with is the one I stated in my thread "Interesting cognitive trick for focusing on schoolwork". You've seen this one too, Fly Away. It's the thread where I related how much better I can focus and really think productively in those moments when I am on some level thinking about something else that I want to go get up and do. The reason this works is that when I am conscious of something terrestrial, something else on the ground, in real-life, something outside of my up-in-the-clouds reflective reverie, it's like throwing me a line. I now have something to hold onto that is connected to the ground, and this grounds my thinking a little, makes it easier for me to think in the context of producing something understandable, for at least a few minutes anyway. But is this sustainable for a lifetime of productivity? I don't think it is.

My latest guess is that I need a drug that will allows my brain to function for a sustained time period the way it functions in those few minutes. I need a lifeline that I can reach and grasp to pull myself down out of the clouds. Or maybe I can pull myself down out of the clouds on my own, I just need a brain that will continue functioning once I reach the ground. What I really need is something to douse and dissolve the insurmountable firewall in my brain between thought and action. That I know I can't do by myself. I really hope that what I am experiencing is not basically the good old-fashioned writer’s block that everyone experiences. Isn’t writer’s block when you don’t know what you want to write, when you just can’t think of anything? When the creative thought process simply isn’t happening for you? It happens for me, all the time, I just can’t get to it with my fully conscious brain and harness the thoughts produced by my intellectual creative process.

My best guess is the drug Modafinil, or Provigil as its brand name goes. It increases “vigilance”, which (thanks to your help) I understand to be attunement to surrounding environment. Perhaps being more vigilant, for me, would be like being grounded, like those few moments when I can function on the ground, thinking on multiple levels at one time instead of getting lost in either the big picture or the tiny details, consciously processing my thoughts and verbalizing them according to my own volition. As I think I have said elsewhere, ADD for me is not being overrun by stimuli, it’s being impenetrable to stimuli. Wouldn’t this just be a matter of hyper-vigilance vs. hypo-vigilance? If I could be more alert to my immediately surrounding environment, this would be like coming down out of the clouds, no? Then perhaps thinking would not be such an act of drifting and wandering that is so vulnerable to dissipation upon the slightest exertion of effort, will, or volition?? Maybe, just maybe, this is what I need to bring down that damnable neurological firewall in my head. Or maybe I am just reaching and grasping for anything that will offer me hope.

It’s funny. I’ve read that a lot of kids with ADD come to college thinking that their Adderall or their Ritalin is like some kind of smart pill, or some kind of miracle drug that will make learning information or writing papers easy or effortless. I think most of us here at ADDforums know that that is not the case at all. Whatever you take, if it works, it just gets you up to a funtionable baseline, a place where you have access to your own abilities. That’s all I want. I don’t want to be superhuman; I don’t even want to be any smarter than I am. I’ll take what I’ve got, if I could just get to it. It's not a matter of trying harder; I've been trying harder all my life. I am willing to work hard, I even like working hard. I just need someone to disable the neurological mechanism whereby the slightest exertion of effort shatters every last remnant of ability.


On a brighter note, I can take comfort in the knowledge that I have the love and support of parents who are dedicated to my well-being, and friends who love me regardless of my many failures. The parents were tough to deal with for a while, but the more we realize that my life-long peculiarities and difficulties are neurologically based, the more understanding and supportive they become. They are amazing people, definitely of the "glass is half-full" variety. They figure that now that they know about it, they can help get me what I need to learn to deal with it. They also (my mother especially) respond to the new knowledge that I have ADD with ever greater admiration for me, because they conclude that during all those years of grade school achievement I must have been surmounting an obstacle posed by a neurobiological disorder none of us knew I had. My parents regard the situation with a positive attitude and they treat me with endless unconditional love. I could ask for nothing more. I am truly lucky to have been born to those two people. I only wish I didn't have to be such a financial strain on them at the very time in their lives when they thought the financial strain of children was going to lighten. I am the second of two children, the only one still financially dependent. Just as I have the frustration of not being able to plan my life at all because I never know when or if I am going to graduate from college, my parents have the frustration of not knowing when to plan for their retirement because the timing of that is dependent on when their second kid finally gets out on her own.



Now about you, hun. (This is to Fly Away.) I have a thought after reading some of your posts and writing about my guess that I am hypo-vigilant. Perhaps, even though you no longer suffer from PTSD, you are still a little hyper-vigilant to a degree. Perhaps this is why you become so easily over-stimulated, because you are so very receptive to all stimuli? Secondly, I am not sure what your line of work is, but just reading your last post, about how you love art and enjoy figuring out how to promote creativity using different learning styles, and then thinking back to how energetic and fun you are, I can't help thinking that you would love working in education. I would think you would be an amazing teacher at the elementary school level. Kids would just feed of of your energy and adore you! No worries about them thinking you are immature! Would you consider teaching? Or even teaching art at an elementary school? Also, have you ever heard of art therapy? Maybe that is something you might want to look at? Whatever you do, it has to be something that capitalizes on your strengths. Nothing straight-laced!


Okay, I have spent about 6 hours on this message. (I don't watch time. That's another of my ADD tendencies, again I think related to my under-vigilance, or underawareness of my presence in the context of my surroundings, whether spacial, temporal, or general life surroundings. I am too lost in my reverie, which today I have projected onto this computer screen. But I am also not capable of JUST sitting here in front of the comp the whole time, so of course I have spent part of the last 6 hours pacing around, or making food, or jumping around, etc.) Anyway, time to end this very long post and try to put myself in either of my two states that allow productivity. So hard to do artificially and intentionally, but I'll do my best to not try to do work, but to make my work my whim, or I'll pump myself with 6 cups of coffee and stay up until 8 AM tomorrow and feel frazzled and harried and awful but maybe get something done. Oh the joy of ADD! :rolleyes:

By the way, Fly Away, Happy Mother's Day! :):):p:o:):):p:o:):):p:o:):)

Thank you!!! I had a very nice day. Beautiful, relaxing and got to just spend some down time with my kids and h.

I have to thank you for your wonderful post. I can say without a doubt that your parents are proud of you no matter what kind of 'performance' you have at school. I think your ability/character is not in question because its apparent that you are very bright, thoughtful and caring. I think we all need to know we are loved, not for what we do but for who we are. So whether you have straight F's or straight A's is really immaterial as far as parents go. I can say this because I am a parent. :o It sounds like your parents are great people so I am happy for you! I can see how the world can beat down some ADDer's for things that are beyond their control.

I also appreciated your wonderful, articulate post because I have an adult step son who is inattentive ADD. He was dx'd around the time I was which has only been a few months. I believe he struggles with what you've described but has not been able to put it into words so clearly. He is bright and witty with a wonderful, sweet, kind spirit but did miserably in school because he could not finish assignments on time. It was so frustrating because we were always at such a loss as to how to help him.

He is very different than I am in how the ADD presents itself because he is much more, like you described, hypo- vigilant. In fact he is one of the most laid back people I know. I have not ever seen him show any signs of outward stress over much of anything. He has mentioned to me that he has a stream of thoughts going thru his mind almost constantly but to grab ahold and pick out one thing to begin with is what is hard for him. From what I can gather it just all drifts by in a steady continious stream without anything standing out with any prominence. Once he has something to do and someone to direct him he will go ahead and do fine but to begin is nearly impossible. My h and I have discovered thru ADD reading that what he lacks is the 'on' switch. He simply could not take inititive on beginning a task. But I tell you when he does find a way to articulate his thoughts he has wonderful insight and a great imagination. He has this wonderful treasure and talent that stays hidden most of the time but blows you away when it comes out. He has begun treatment and is steadily improving. My h and I have to deal with the guilt of not knowing this was what was going on with him because now he has to deal with the poor self image that comes along with all the terrible teacher conferences and bad report cards. I think back to all the things we said to him to try to get him to just do his schoolwork! All we can do know is let him know we just didn't know and that we love and support him now. I think thats why I can speak for your parents :D. It may be that they are feeling some remorse and guilt over not picking up on ways to help you.

Its interesting to read about how different ADD is in each of us. I agree that the medication is really just a starting point. Do I remember right that you are on adderall? You mentioned you are considering some other type of medication. I was curious as to why. (If thats too personal I apologize.) I only ask because of the correlation between what you described and what I see in my son. I wondered if you had some more information on medications for the inattentive part of ADD. These insights you've mentioned have they come about just since you started treatment or have you know this about yourself for a while? How has the treatment changed in how you do things? My son is not as insightful at this point (and plus he's a guy :D - no offense meant guys!) but we have seen outward evidence of some real improvements in him since he started treatmentso we have been real encouraged. I am hoping at some point he will gain enough confidence to give school another try. I think he will be pleasantly surprised.

I also agree with you in that I am probably still hyper-vigilant and the over stimulation is connected. In fact the stimulation overload that I feel is very similar to a mini flashback like the types of flashbacks I would have when I was at a bad point in the PTSD. It makes me wonder if my system just went into overdrive one too many times from the abuse and I somehow got stuck there. Thankfully though its getting better. It does give me a whole new appreciation for brain chemistry and our own unique brain wiring. Its fascinating and helps me to not take the difficulty I have as a personal failure (although I think deep down I still do but old habits die hard :rolleyes: ).


I don't know if you are interested but I thought I'd give you my perspective on what my ADD brain does for comparision. :faint: I think what my brain does is get stuck in one gear. I can literally only think of one thing at a time. If the stimulation is too much thats all I can think about. If I am happy about something thats all I want to do. If I am sad I am sad to the exclusion of everything else. If I have a project to do I can do that but I usually have to throw myself into it at the expense of getting anything else done. For me its either all or nothing. I either go full force or not at all. So I've got the on/off switch but no speed control! I am either in off or overdrive.

In school I did okay as long as I did not have to rely on lectures or anything auditory for my primary method of learning. I could get projects done on time but if I had something else going on in my life I was very easily distracted away from school, work etc. When I worked I was either slacking off and unproductive or a workaholic- I am rarely in the middle.

I love the idea of working with kids and would love to work with them with art. I am considering going back to school to pursue something like that. I am leery though of putting myself into a situation where I have too much going on because again I tend to go overboard and crash. I haven't found any magic treatment yet that will even me out. I think the key will be too work with my lopsidedness and work to my strengths. I am learning to recognize the physical signs of overload and I think that was a magor breakthrough. I am a good person to be self employed because I am self motivated when I get to pick the project!

Well now I've written a book! Again thank you for sharing. I so much appreciate your insight and think its helped me to see what my son may be dealing with. I think you are going to do just fine- it certainly sounds like you are on the right track and all of this readjusting and adapting takes time. I am glad to hear you don't let this get you down either. What a blessing that is!

Thank youagain for sharing and I hope my rambling in some way helps you too- if for nothing else you know I am cheering you on! Way to go Flighty!

Hello again, Fly Away. :)

I am glad that you had a nice Mother's Day. :) My mom had an alright one. She got a call from me at least. :rolleyes: And my brother and his wife went over to my parent's house and I think cooked my parents dinner. My mom is really worried about me though, really worried. I got a worried, almost tearful message from her on my cell at about 10 PM telling me the best Mother's Day present for her would be if I would just call a doctor and make an appt to discuss ADD treatment. She's right. I do have to do that. I've been meaning to, but I've just been, well, distracted. Mom doesn't understand that my doing things like putting off calling the doctor are in themselves related to my ADD brain. But she's right. I'll call him tomorrow. Really this time. :o

Thanks for the kinds words about me and about my writing. You are right about my parents too. They're awesome. When I was much younger, I used to sometimes get upset because I felt like my mom loved me for what I accomplished more than for who I was. I'm not sure if her feelings toward me have changed, or if she has just made them more clear as I have gotten older and things have gotten more complicated. I suspect she has just made her love more clear. And I definitely am thankful for that. :)

As for whether my insights are new or whether I have always known all the things about myself I mentioned. Well, I have not had quite the depth of understanding of myself before. Much of what I wrote in that last post were things I realized as short a time ago as last Wednesday or Thursday evening. I have always known that I don't get anything done until the last minute, but I never quite understood why until I began to think about the way the adrenaline rush changes my cognitive abilities. The whole bit about how I am always in the clouds and am never fully awake in the way that it seems other people are fully awake and "with it", that insight came in the middle of the night last Thursday, as I was laboring away, or trying to labor away, on a late assignment.

About medication. Yes, I was on Adderall. I stopped a week or two ago. I think it made me feel more alert a little when I was first taking it, although the dry mouth was incredible. I couldn't stop drinking water. And the effect of being more alert did not last. After a while, try as I might to raise and lower the dosage, I couldn't get the same effect. Also, it did sometimes have that "stepford wife" effect. So I think for the most part it increased focus while diminishing exec function. I don't think I really need to rely on meds to increase my focus. I need something to enable better exec function, and I think from there I will be able to regulate attention quite well. The med I would like to try is modafinil, or Provigil which is its current brand name. It's labeled for narcolepsy right now, but may begin to be labeled for ADD under the name Attenence in 2006. Doctors can prescribe it off-label for ADD, it just can't by law be marketed for ADD. These are the current regulations in the US. I am not sure about elsewhere. I think I described pretty well the effect I think modafinil would have on me as a daydreamy inattentive type in my previous post. It was made for narcoleptics, so it is basically meant to keep people alert and awake. In reading about it, I have read that there are two elements to being awake: 1) wakefullness (a state of not being asleep), and 2) vigilance, which as I understand it, attunement to surroundings. As a daydreamy inattentive, it is this attunement to surroundings that I think I need. My guess is it will make me attuned to my spatial surroundings (which can help me remember why I am where I am so I won't have to wander aimlessly down the veggie aisle forgetting to keep in mind why I went there), my temporal surroundings (increase awareness of time and the fact that it is not static, time passes!), and more attuned to the general context of my life. I also think it will help me be more attuned to the people around me, so that I can engage more fully in conversation. As it is, I have come to think that I am almost never fully with everyone else. I am more completely attached to my own mental state than I am attuned to any given conversation. The other person's words and tone influence the weather and the events in la-la land, but I never fully leave la-la land. (Weather= the mood in my mental state; events= the content of my constant inner monologue, or my thoughts) I think maybe modafinil will bring me back from la-la land and make me feel awake in a way that I have rarely quite experienced, awake in the way that I suspect neurotypicals are most days. I hope maybe it will bring down the firewall between reflective thought and purposeful intention. I hope it will bring me to the ground, and make me alert enough that I can think there as well as I can think during that stressful last-minute rush that I so abhor but so rely on. I suggest that you have your son read over this thread and see if what I have described fits him, and if my theory about modafinil sounds plausible for him. If he is too inattentive to read, summarize it to him, or print it out, highlight a few bits, and have him read no more than would take him a few minutes. Whatever, it doesn't matter how you do it, just get my suggestions to him if you think they will give him some insight.

A little more on modafinil. It's mechanism of action is different than the conventional stimulants used to treat ADD. It doesn't work by altering dopamine levels. I think I have read that it works by stimulating the hypothalamus, which regulates waking and sleeping cycles. I am not looking anything up at the moment, so I could be wrong. It works on the histamine system in the brain. You know how you feel drowsy when you take an anti-histamine? Well, modafinil is a pro-histamine, so it makes you feel alert and increases vigilance. Also, I recall that it seems that modafinil is even safer than other stimulant meds. Less potential to be used for a high, because modafinil will not give you a high no matter how much you take. (Probably because it doesn't work dopaminergically, which I have learned is the adverb for, "by means of dopamine".) Also, I read of a 21-year-old woman who took 4500 mgs in an effort to kill herself. What effect did 4500 mgs have on her? Gave her a bad case of insomnia!! (A normal therapeutic dose ranges from 100 to 300 mgs in most people, going up to 600 mgs for some people, and as low as 50 for others.) The US military has tested using it own soldiers, because they see in it potential to create a kind of super-soldier that can operate with a clear head and perform without error on upwards of 30 hours without sleep, and modafinil will do that if you keep pumping your body with it. I've read that you just feel awake, without the feeling of being driven the way other stim meds can make you feel driven. And it won't make your heartbeat irregularly or give you dry mouth. Most people have no side effects. If you do want to sleep while you have modafinil in you, I've read that you can, but you won't actually feel the drowsiness that makes you want to nap. The drug stays in your body for between 10 and 15 hours depending on the person, so taking it in the morning should still allow you to feel tired come bedtime.

Well, I guess we have learned that my ADD doesn't inhibit my ability to gain and store knowlege through reading, and to recall the knowledge later, now haven't we? :p I'm glad for that. I may not be able to process, manipulate, and use knowledge in the act of creation, but at least I can store and retrieve it!

My best guess is that modafinil would be a life saver to those of us whose ADD brains make us prone to daydreaming. This is basically hypovigilance I think, we are unable to "tune in" to our surroundings, so we spend 98% of our time tuned out. You, on the other hand, dear friend, don't seem to have a problem with too little vigilance, so my guess would be that modafinil would make you feel all the more overrun with stimuli. But I could be wrong. Other stimulants have the "paradoxical" effect of calming hyperactives down, so maybe modafinil would too. My doubt comes from the knowledge that the mechanism of action in the brain is different for modafinil than for other drugs. It does sound like you are really figuring yourself out too, which is wonderful. Congrats to you on that, hon. Understanding is 90% of the struggle. This is one of those situations where the saying "Knowledge is power" holds true. Once we know what is going on in our brains, we can figure out how to take action to empower ourselves. Just knowing is the biggest step, and you are making great strides in coming to know yourself. For this I congratulate you! :)

Have a beautiful day!! :o

Hi Flighty!


I wrote you a PM. I am really curious about this other med. You'll have to let me know how it goes if you are able to change.

My therapist told me about this kind of med. and why its helpful for just the reason you said- it seems with some people the line is more blurry between wakefulness and sleep when it comes to ADD. Without medication do you sleep alot? My step son says he can easily sleep 15 hrs and still be tired without meds. I know he was definitely like this as a teen but we attributed it to being a teen! Now that he's older you would expect he would not have this type of sleep problem.

My step son also does not have a problem with feeling overstimulated. We've talked about that and he said he is fine in that way. You can see that in him too because his behavior, expression etc. doesn't change like mine does with lots of commotion. He doesn't appear scattered. He's also only slightly distractable at least as far as in outward appearances. In fact all the things that I do he does not. Isn't that funny? I will lose track of my thoughts in mid sentence. He doesn't I am supersensitve to sounds, distractions. He's not as much although he seems to have a touch of the 'super' hearing that I do- like being aware of a wrist watch ticking. I know he has a problem with organization. Oh, my his room was awful but since he's gone on adderall he is cleaning his apartment.

I am curious if what you think of daydreaming is any different than what I do. I know I have lots of thoughts going thru my mind. I am usually preoccupied with something- some internal tension/problem or external stimuli. I don't get into what I think of as a daydream so much. That kind of sounds pleasant to me. I seem to be working thru things over and over. I am forever trying to make connections from one thing to another-- figure something out. Why did this person say this and what does it mean or why did this happen? What was going on before that happened? What could of been done differently? Its like replaying things over and over. Before you get the wrong idea its not always as productive as it sounds. It could be negative things that I really need to just drop or it could be my current project. I rarely can just rest because my mind won't let me.
The antidepressants have helped that part of things because it really borders on OC tendencies although I don't have Obsessive Complusive Disorder. Isn't it strange how ADD is such a paradox even from one type to another? You need to grab hold and I need to let go. Can we trade a little??

I think you are on to something with this medication. I'll be excited to hear how it goes for you-- now call for that doctor's appt.!!! LOL!


I had to come back and edit my post because the word wrist watch when written as one word had the t and the first 3 letters of watch * out! :D

About sleepiness. Yes, I would say that I sleep a lot, and rest rarely makes me feel ready-to-go, on-the-ball, etc. I can be an incredibly energetic person, but it is all in the bursts of enthusiasm, all in the hyperactive impulses that I have described before. I remember noting in my diary several years ago how much energy I have and how I just wish I could harness it for something productive. Instead it's like I just splash energy in all directions and can't use it for initiative and follow-through. Splash isn't the right word, but I am especially tired right now (bothersome head cold) and I can't think of a better word. As far as energy reserves to have a productive, functional day in my everyday life, no I don't have that. As much as I like the idea of working hard, and as much as I love those moments when adrenaline allows me to really work, I just don't have the energy for it. I hate being this way, but one of my favorite passtimes is doing not much of anything. It's not really that I actually prefer it that way, it's just that I don't have the energy to do otherwise, so I sort of enjoy myself doing not much. You may find this interesting, because it would be interesting to know if your son is the same way: I have always been a person for whom just doing the bare minimum of daily activities during a day is tiring. Seriously, Fly Away, I can wake up, get some breakfast, shower, and dress, and then feel like I need to take a break! A break from what?! This is what I angrily ask myself. I say to myself, "I have been awake for but two hours, and I've managed to get myself fed, cleaned, and dressed, and I feel like I need a break?! What's wrong with me? These are the things most people do in the morning to get themself going, and I feel like I have done a lot and need a break. A break from what??? I haven't done one productive thing yet!" I still may have energy to spew around at these moments mind you, I can jump and touch the ceiling, or turn on music and jump and skip around, but do something that requires mental energy? No, breakfast, showering, and dressing were mentally draining enough. I think it's a matter of any purposeful action being tiring for a brain whose executive functional capacities are as lacking as they are for my brain. I guess it makes sense that the bare minimum of daily activities would be a little strenuous for a mind that can't come out of the clouds. Also, when I don't have a schedule that makes me have to get going early, like when I am on breaks from school, I somehow manage to not be dressed, fed, and ready to go until late afternoon or long around dinner time. I have always been this way. Always always. It's kind of nice to talk about this. I have always thought I was just such a lazy-butt. At least now I can see my lethargy in the context of ADD and not have to beat myself up over never being able to "discipline" myself. I'd be interested to know if your son is the way I have described.

Daydreaming. No, what you have described is not usually the kinds of things my mind is working on. It sounds like your mind is constantly working; you have the misfortune of not being equipped with an "off" switch. You are constantly thinking, worrying, planning about things going on in your life, even when it is not productive. In contrast, I don't have an "on" switch. Thinking for me happens in the context of daydreaming, so I don't have too much conscious control of it. I refer to my thought process as daydreaming because it really is similar to dreaming, like the kind of dreaming you do when asleep. It's like there is a play running in my head that my subconscious mind is the director of. My conscious mind does not direct it; it's like what I described before about how the moment I try to harness my intellectual thoughts, they stop. Same thing with daydreaming. It's all daydreaming, really, intellectual thoughts included. If you snap me out of my reverie and ask me what I was just thinking, I have as much a chance of recalling it as I do of recalling a dream shortly after waking from actual sleep. I guess the chance of recall depends on the speed of the transition between daydreaming and coming to the ground out of the clouds, just like if I wake up slowly and gradually out of a real sleep, I have a better chance of recalling my night-dream than if I am jostled from sleep quickly.

Sigh.

HI Flighty,

What you described sounds very much what I've seen in my son. I can't tell you how grateful I am for you to put it into words! You had written: At least now I can see my lethargy in the context of ADD and not have to beat myself up over never being able to "discipline" myself. I'd be interested to know if your son is the way I have described.

I look back and feel awful over the fact that our son was struggling w/ ADD and we thought he needed discipline, nagging (!!) from US to 'teach' him to take some initiative. It seemed like with just a bit more maturity he'd get the hang of it. He always seemed so close to taking that next step. We were always waiting, always urging always the one to 'push' him into the next step. It was very discouraging on both ends I am sure. We could see the potential and wondered why was he holding back? Have we not encouraged him enough? Have we given him the right opportunities to blossom, to find his niche?

When you begin to really understand that its a brain chemistry problem it gives it a whole new perspective. Thankfully he is in his early 20's and has time. The same with you. As a young adult there are still plenty of people your age trying to find the right direction in their life so a few more years added on early to work this out won't even be but a blip later on.

What you've described as your daydreaming sounds right in line w/ what my son has said too. He told me that he has a steady stream of random thoughts going thru his mind but to sit down and actually put something down on paper in a writing assignment must of been almost impossible for him. When he did his assignments they were of very good quality so it was never a matter of not being intelligent. He has always been very bright and capable.

I remember often just finding my son sitting and staring off into space. He could sit and do nothing for longer than anyone I know! We thought it was a teen age boy kind of thing. Its easy to see why this kind of behavior might not be thought of as ADD. Our son has not shown any impulsivity and has always used very good judgement so he is not prone to the type of behavior you might typically attribute to ADD where the person acts before thinking thru the consequences.

I've read how in some types of ADD that the act of concentration actually slows down brain wave activity so the harder you try the worse it gets. I've also read that there is some thought as to classifying inattentive ADD in its own category. The way you described what happens to you when you do try to concentrate is very helpful to me. I can see it now with what my son has been able to tell me so far. It seems to match up and make sense.

I think on the plus side of all of this now that we know what we know you and I are off the hook as far as blaming ourselves.

For whatever its worth I was going to tell you about my ADD. The thoughts crowding my head like I said before are more of a preoccupation with things that I don't need to be concerned with right then- not what is going on in front of me. I was reading a book about different types of intelligence and one of the types is associative thinking. I am an expert on this! I make associations and link up one unrelated thing to another until I've woven a tangeled mess in my head! If I am particularly troubled by something I will do this on and on and on until I can't make a move without something somehow being related to the preoccupation. Its really a form of torture! Ugh! I am in the process of trying to recognize what I am doing and realizing that its the ADD and not some terrible problem I need to work out.

I've also recognized that I have to have my mind all wrapped around something. I can't not do this but I do seem to have some control over what I wrap it around. So I am allowing myself to get involved in projects that give me this opportunity to make associations, connections etc. but in a positive way. For me and my projects one thing leads to another thing which leads to another thing until I am way off from the direction most people would take. Right now I am allowing myself to get wrapped up in writing an art activity book/devotional for my church. It may be so off the wall no one will be interested in it but for the time being it lets me direct myself away from the negative thoughts that take me over so easily.

Another thing I allow myself to get wrapped up in is learning about ADD! :rolleyes:

I drive my poor h crazy. He's always telling me to let something drop.

Thank you again for sharing your insights. I can't help but think that as more adults are dx'd with ADD so much more progress will be made with treatments etc. because the feedback from the adults has to be helping to understand the kids better. There is no way a child would of been able to express themselves in such way as you have here. I know with myself until I was faced with ADD and the PTSD I never thought about HOW I thought!

Hope you have a great day!

(I've postponed housework, laundry, organizing and paying bills while I've been trying to solve the world's problems. Thats ADD for ya!)

One more thing :D


You asked:You may find this interesting, because it would be interesting to know if your son is the same way: I have always been a person for whom just doing the bare minimum of daily activities during a day is tiring.

I think I can answer for him and say yes, this is true for him too. He has told me before medication he could sleep for 15 hrs and still be tired. I remember being very worried about him when he was a teen because of the amount of sleep he had. I knew teens were known for sleeping alot but he did an excessive amount and still seemed lethargic. I know this must of been miserable for him. I would find myself thinking- how could you be tired- you've not done anything. You just need to get up and start moving-- do something! He would too as long as you told him what to do. To actually do something on his own rarely happened. Now I see all of this as huge red flags. Back then it was what many people say they go thru with their teens but to an extreme. I guess thats why they say hindsight is 20/20.
I hope you get over your cold soon!

(Lets see if I can think of something else to do BESIDES organize bills, housework, laundry.....)

ugh... psychologist called back... he is so not for me.... :(

Rats! Keep trying though. He's not the only one out there. My t isn't an
'add' expert but he is very good. Is there someone you know who can personally recommend someone to you?

I am going to go over to my college's health center and just tell them what I think I need.

Fly Away, I have been doing more research in the last hour or something like that (remember I don't have any conception of time!) I understand so much more... what I was thinking before seems to be corroborated by more that I have read and the theories are fleshing themselves out in my head...

but it is time to stop researching though and go to the health center...

I am almost stunned by the thought that i may be able to find something that will help me be alert, attuned, and attentive the way I have never been consistently in my life...

i feel like a blind person being offered a surgery that will *probably* give him sight...

oh my gosh oh my gosh....

I tihnk I shoudl go to the health center now...

This is wonderful news Flighty!! I am so excited for you. I hope things go well. I will look forward to hearing all about it.


I talked to my son and he verified that his experience is similar to yours. I am hoping to direct him here to the forum. Thank you again for sharing what you've learned. Your insight and willingness to help has been very appreciated.

Good luck!

Fly, the health center was not much help. The runaround, etc. They can help me, but it will take a while to get an appt., and I have to fill out paperwork in person, and I can't do that until they finish moving their office to another campus.... etc. etc.

I am going to go back to my old psychiatrist. What do I care if she is spacey and doesn't know much about the meds? By now, I know more about what is going on with me than most docs!!

I'm sure there will be a detailed explanation coming from me onto this board within a few weeks. Do you think I should start a new thread to detail my unfolding theories? I suppose it would be of interest to many, no?

Flighty

P.S.: Notice the change in my signature? Ya like it? :) I do. It made me so happy to change that!!

Hi,

I noticed the change in your signature right away and think its a great!

I would go back to the old pdoc too. Personality quirks and poor bedside manner can be tolerated for short periods of time if it means you can get correct treament.

I think it would be great to share what your learning. I managed to find some info. and I was encouraged because I read provigil has a positive effect on inhibition control (impulsivity, thinking first before acting) and improving verbal memory. These are both biggies for me.

I also suspect that although the adderall is helping me with concentration it does not help with shifting of my attention. I can still get really stuck in an activity and don't move on. Thats okay when I am by myself but not good for socializing or being a mom and wife. I also wonder if it makes my sensory issues worse. Its really so ahrd to tell. I go from wondering if its just my increased awareness of the problem that has been there all along or a medication problem. No one can really tell me because its all so subjective.

I think good communication with your doc will be very helpful. It wil make her job easier too.

It sounds like you are definitely on the right track of getting things moving along. Good for you for sticking with it and persevering!

Take care,
Fly

I also wonder if it makes my sensory issues worse.
Fly
Would you mind telling me what your sensory issues are?

And thanks for cheering me on! I am glad that you like my signature change! My pdoc doesn't always return calls, and I don't think I should bug her on the weekend, even though I have her office, cell, and home phone numbers. I'll wait until Monday morningto call her again, and just keep doing research over the weekend. If when I talk to her she says I can see you this minute, I'm gonna hop into the car and speed my way to her office! (Or maybe I should stay at the speed limit!)

Yes, drive the speed limit!!!

My sensory issues usually start with auditory distractions- two or more people talking, loud background noises, noise and commotion etc. Its like I can't filter out the excess noise and it goes straight to my nerves! I get physically more active and random and my brain shuts off. My body tenses up and I get more agitated. Gosh, sounds so attractive, doesn't it? Its a real pain. I hate shopping because of it. I absolutely avoid malls at all costs. There are things I need to shop for but I put it off for this very reason. I go into a store and I am an impulsive, wound up wreck!

Today I didn't take my adderall and I was more tolerant of noise. I know one day isn't really enough to evaluate its effect on me but it got me thinking.
There is the question of whether these symptoms are really increasing or am I just more aware of them due to the medication? I know I've always had this problem but never put 2 and 2 together. I want the self-awareness but I don't want to increase my symptoms.

I hope you get into your doc quickly. I probably wouldn't call her at home over the weekend. She probably wouldn't look at this as an emergency and you sure don't want her in a bad mood! Butl on the other hand if she IS ADD then she would understand it IS an emergency!

The good thing about provigil is it is not a controlled substance so she could just call a prescription in for you. If she has an answering service you could leave a message with them. She has to check her messages anyways and she could decide whether she wants to deal with it now or later.

Good luck!

I can wake up, get some breakfast, shower, and dress, and then feel like I need to take a break! Me too!! I've just recently decided that it's ok for me to feel like I have to take a break after showering. I suppose people in general see taking a shower as something you just do, but to me it's work. It means I have to stay focused on what I'm doing. It means I have to keep the balance between the impulse to stand and daydream in hot water, which I turned on because I was a bit cold, and the knowledge that showering for too long in hot water makes me too hot and uncomfortable after the shower. Often getting myself to the shower is so difficult. I often wake up very hot and sweaty; feeling nauseatic which means I have to take a shower, but it's still not something I do with ease.

I think the preparations you need to make to do things are among the most difficult things. Like getting ready to go somewhere. Like you it often takes me until late afternoon / early evening.

guys... my mind is reeling with understanding... just reeling... seriously, I honestly feel that I understand more than most specialists in this area... or at least maybe I have a special insight that many of these specialists don't have... this may sound haughty or egotistical, but between reading what many here in this forum and other forums say, as well as from reading some scholarly stuff, I have just synthesized the information and come to an understanding that just keeps getting further verified the more I read and further fleshed out the more I read... there are still some missing puzzle pieces, but I get it! I'd better write something up before I lose the thoughts, and I'll use the follow-my-whim/do-it-without-meaning to trick.... (if you don't know what I mean see my "don't discipline yourself, shift your inclination" thread, or the 14th post of this thread) ... I'd better calm down so that I can get to bed.... I will follow my whim to an intentionless write-up of my thoughts/theory tomorrow...

Thanks guys, SO MUCH, for all you have shared....

The way you've been hot on the trail, I sense a good meal. Can hardly wait to see what's cooking. As they say, "The proof of the pudding, is in the taste."

I can't wait to hear what you've found out. I think as more adults are recognized as having ADD that the kind of feedback that you've been able to give us here Flighty on how the ADD presents itself in you will be invaluable. Can you imagine trying to get this kind of information from a child?

Thanks again for sharing!