View Full Version : What is a temperament? (in general)


mildadhd
02-26-16, 09:24 AM
1) Tertiary Affects and Neocortical ‘Awareness’ Functions
i) Cognitive Executive Functions: Thoughts & Planning (frontal cortex)
ii) Emotional Ruminations & Regulations (medial frontal regions)
iii) ‘Free Will’ (higher working memory functions — Intention-to-Act)

2) Secondary-Process Affective Memories (Learning via Basal Ganglia)
i) Classical Conditioning (e.g. FEAR via basolateral & central amygdala)
ii) Instrumental & Operant Conditioning (SEEKING via nucleus accumbens)
iii) Behavioural & Emotional Habits (largely unconscious — dorsal striatum)

3) Primary-Process, Basic-Primordial Affective States (Sub-Neocortical)
i) Sensory Affects (exteroceptive-sensory triggered pleasurable and unpleasurable/disgusting feelings)
ii) Homeostatic Affects (brain-body interoceptors: hunger, thirst, etc.)
iii) Emotional Affects (emotion action systems — Intentions-in-Actions)

The Philosophical Implications of Affective Neuroscience (http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/109303/jcs-articlefinal.pdf)


Does a person's temperament include all three primary-process affects?

-sensory affects
-homeostatic affects
-emotional affects

This thread is meant to explore and learn what a temperament is, in general?

All thoughts appreciated.

aeon
02-26-16, 10:29 AM
This thread is meant to explore and learn what a temperament is, in general?

Is this a question? If it is, I would conclude that, no, it is not, given that your thread title seems an open-ended exploration, but your initial question:

Does a person's temperament include all three primary-process affects?

-sensory affects
-homeostatic affects
-emotional affects

Is anything but, and can be answered with a “yes,” or “no.”


Wondering,
Ian

mildadhd
02-26-16, 09:22 PM
Thank you for asking for clarification.

:) I'll try to be more specific, I have lots of questions about temperaments.

What is a temperament, in general?

Does a temperament include, "Brain 1) Tertiary Cognitive, 2) Secondary Learning & Memory, and 3) Primary Emotional-Affective Processing Systems"?


1) Tertiary Affects and Neocortical ‘Awareness’ Functions
i) Cognitive Executive Functions: Thoughts & Planning (frontal cortex)
ii) Emotional Ruminations & Regulations (medial frontal regions)
iii) ‘Free Will’ (higher working memory functions — Intention-to-Act)

2) Secondary-Process Affective Memories (Learning via Basal Ganglia)
i) Classical Conditioning (e.g. FEAR via basolateral & central amygdala)
ii) Instrumental & Operant Conditioning (SEEKING via nucleus accumbens)
iii) Behavioural & Emotional Habits (largely unconscious — dorsal striatum)

3) Primary-Process, Basic-Primordial Affective States (Sub-Neocortical)
i) Sensory Affects (exteroceptive-sensory triggered pleasurable and unpleasurable/disgusting feelings)
ii) Homeostatic Affects (brain-body interoceptors: hunger, thirst, etc.)
iii) Emotional Affects (emotion action systems — Intentions-in-Actions)

The Philosophical Implications of Affective Neuroscience (see opening post link)

mildadhd
02-26-16, 09:28 PM
Does a temperament include both the body and the brain?

mildadhd
02-26-16, 10:34 PM
tem·per·a·ment.


[ˈtemp(ə)rəmənt]






NOUN



1.a person's or animal's nature, especially as it permanently affects their behavior:
"she had an artistic temperament"

synonyms: disposition · nature · character · personality · makeup ·
[more]


2.the adjustment of intervals in tuning a piano or other musical instrument so as to fit the scale for use in different keys; in equal temperament, the octave consists of twelve equal semitones.


-Oxford Dictionaries

mildadhd
02-26-16, 10:55 PM
The general concept of "equal temperament" is interesting

Pilgrim
02-27-16, 01:28 AM
I've always thought that temperament was a patr of character.

daveddd
02-27-16, 02:54 AM
I've always thought that temperament was a patr of character.

i don't think there is a separation between body and brain based temperaments and character

it may strongly shape it

SB_UK
02-27-16, 04:27 AM
Temperament is a Tendency.

Generally of a condition which we want to understand and, at least in the past, generally found to be heritable and attempted by geneticisits to locate - generally failing.

First answer I'd give to what is temperament is sensitivity.

If there's a sensitivity at some level to some sense which the individual is predisposed to eg hearing or sight or feel then we might have the inherited sensitivity towards, music, painting or carpentry ?

So - if we could define an inherited sensitivity (ie tendency for a particular sense capacity to develop) - we might have the basis to inherited (insert temperament).

SB_UK
02-27-16, 04:40 AM
Generally I wouldn't want to go beyond the idea of just plain inherited sensitivity - but there''s a chance that the site of expresion of the sensitivity might be inherited.

The mechanism would have to be epigenetic.

Predisposed towards over-growth in sensitivity machinery at one locus ? predisposing the individual though not enforcing the individual towards some creative pursuit ?

Why not ?

-*-

Inherited sensitivity to sound would definitely lead to anxiety - particularly in noisy places.
Inherited insensitivity to pain might lead to an affinity for contact sports
Inherited insensitivity to balance (fear of heights) might lead to an affinity for hang gliding
Inherited sensitivity to sight might lead to an affinity for art

To hit the sweet spot in sensitivity we'd need 'less'
To hit the sweet spot in insensitivity we'd need 'more'


So - all just inherited sensitivity at a particular sense locus ?

-*-

That's interesting as it'd mean that there's be some inherited mechanism for body and another for mind - but of course people wouldn't see there as being 2 mechanisms ie gene and nerve but would assume that there're fused.

So - this'd imply that the more one strives towards personal quality (sensitivity) - the greater the chance of conferring enhanced sensitivity (which should equate to heightened happy survival likelihood) - upon one's children.

-*-

Children of maternal and paternal systemizers (Simon Baron Cohen) - increased likelihood of systemizing (autism) brain.

Schizophrenia - highly heritable.
Sensitivity - highly heritable

-*-

So - a method of ensuring heritability of useful traits conditional on the way that the parent lives their lives.

Parent aspires to quality - child predisposed to quality.

That's neat - the mechanism though ?

-*-

Heritability estimates for talents were higher and ranged between .50 and .92.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2688647/

SB_UK
02-27-16, 05:12 AM
i don't think there is a separation between body and brain based temperaments and character

it may strongly shape it


A separation between physical and mental character inheritance ?

SB_UK
02-27-16, 05:15 AM
If women are born with all the eggs they will ever use and men create sperm as they need it, will the genetics of the sperm change due to variables like the environment, age or personality changes?
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask423


ie the way that a man lives their life can influence child ?


That's neat as it opens the door (news stories over the last week on eliminating men) to the purpose of male.


eg

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/26/sperm-men-lesbians-fertility

SB_UK
02-27-16, 05:21 AM
What I'd quite like is an epigenetic mechanism for inherited physical and an epigenetic effect for inherited mental effects (sensitivity at sense loci) - together forming the basis to family resemblance.

However - it's even more important for us to embrace some method of seeing a survival advantage being conferred on children through the way that we live our life - which isn't the basic message of straight genetics ie you become what your code states that you will become

- the inherited temperatment inherited through the male epigenome - opens the door to the way we live our lives reflecting itself in predisposition towards a good life -

inherited sensitivity - inherited prediposition towards quality

in future generations.

We're then encouraged to be the best that we can be -


and not simply to waste our lives wage slaving, pizza eating and watching pointless reality TV.

SB_UK
02-27-16, 05:56 AM
Trying this line of thought again.

We have a problem in society which is manifestign itself in failed marriages and broken children.
Parent and child both motivated by greed.

Parent motivated by house price increases and children motivated (not to overturn the system but) to buy and then rent out a property ie both motivated by greed. Rentier capitalists beget rentier capitalsits.

Being human is meant to be about acquiring personal quality / sensitivity.

Nobody is though.

-*-

It would be interesting if we could link the male tendency towards acquiring personal quality/sensitivity and epigenetic inheritance into a scientific argument for man aspiring to be the best that they can be - in order to confer a selective advantage and generally make a better world for subsequent generations to enjoy.

As far as I can see - all people - particularly including males are simply engaged in the worst form of competitive behaviours (all greed based) - of low personal quality accordingly - in order to gain some material world benefit at the expense of others.

SB_UK
02-27-16, 06:25 AM
It's easier to imagine sensitivity at some sensory level as being contagious.

eg


parent - eg reads or draws - feels reward
child - using empathic facility [see below] - feels reward - when see parent reading
then
child - reads - feels reward

Inherited preferred mode for reward system activation.

That's neater than some kinda' epigenetic mechanism which somehow activates increased growth potential in the specific neural network associated with some aspect of quality.

^^^ like that idea - to mimic reward - if parent obtains reward from some aspect of acquiring personal quality - then child picks it up through 'mirror neurone system of the reward system' -

through mirroring reward - back to the anterior cingulate cortex.

Mirror neurone system of the (of other people's) reward system.

Favourite reference of this phenomenon
http://m.today.duke.edu/2012/12/socialprimate

Learning reward -

parents are greedy rentier capitalists
children become greedy rentier capitalists

ie no desire to overturn the system simply to maintain and propagate the system.

SB_UK
02-27-16, 06:31 AM
A wholly transformative idea.

That's really nice - it really does help to shift people from feeling victimized by their own genes - into handing them the reins of their own destiny -

- can't blame anybody else but yourself for the trouble (lack of quality) you're in (you've acquired).

That was always going to be the correct answer though - how can you aspire towards free will and accept servitude -

-- overcoming servitude (wage slavery) by acquiring free will.

Free will - the compulsion to make things better.

Escaping control from a reward system (primitive) which compels the individual into the pursuit of reward which does the individual harm.

Higher reward system (ADDer predisposed) - quality.

Sensitivity in sense characters - what one might call - acquiring personal reward through gaining refinement

It will be pleasant to eliminate the genomic / materialistic paradigm which prevents mankind from being worthwhile - through compelling individuals into believing that they're by nature victims of circumstance and must propagate circumstance to maintain their own place in this impossibly nonsensical scheme.

There shouldn't be anything preventing people from spending time in the sun - it's only the ill-thought out systems of mind which when followed results in life encycling suffering self-medication.

daveddd
02-27-16, 09:51 AM
A separation between physical and mental character inheritance ?

certain facets of the body

regulation systems , million even includes digestion as shaping temperament

SB_UK
02-27-16, 10:24 AM
certain facets of the body

regulation systems , million even includes digestion as shaping temperament


There is a superhighway between the brain and GI system that holds great sway over humans
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-feelings-the-second-brain-in-our-gastrointestinal-systems-excerpt/

carb/fat/protein vs soluble fibre [butyrate]

Sensitivity requiring foods which do not lead to blood glucose variation.

Soluble fibre fits the bill.

Homeostatic sensitivity

-*-

So inherited sensitivity to sensory factors (sound) - alongside emotional (empathy) and homeostatic (physiological homeostatic parameters) ?
Variation in sensory, homeostatic and emotional stability - in the sensitive
Distress.

ADH Disorder is sensitivity in an insensitive imbalanced environment.

mildadhd
02-27-16, 01:12 PM
Thanks. Preverbal develop mental can be hard to talk about in words, the discussion really helps.

So in real life cause is actually always plural, meaning there is never a single cause?

"Causes" = epigenetically inherited temperament + environmental conditions. (at least)

The discussion reminded me of the quote below.

In some people, there will be greater concentration of developmental problems.

This may be because their specific circumstances were worse, or because they were more sensitive, deeply affected by conditions that others with more robust temperaments could better withstand..

-Gabor Mate, "Scattered", 42-43.

mildadhd
02-27-16, 01:38 PM
One thing about epigenetically inherited temperaments is that it is possible that distressful conditions contributing to our more hypersensitive temperaments, could have occurred during the early lives of our great grandparents. Surely this must help remove part of the guilt many primary caregivers feel.

mildadhd
02-27-16, 02:00 PM
Also, there is the possibility that many of our primary caregivers could have experienced conditions that resulted in expressions of their own epigenetically inherited more sensitive temperaments, but without experiencing awareness of environ mental conditions in their own early and later lives to accommodate for hypersensitivity, and support develop mental.

mildadhd
02-27-16, 02:41 PM
Does a person's temperament include all three primary-process affects?

-sensory affects
-homeostatic affects
-emotional affects



(part of answer?) Not hardwired instinct genetically, but soft wired inherited epigenetically?

Primary affects (sensory, homeostatic, emotional) + preverbal develop mental experiences = secondary affective temperament?

Primary affective temperament + verbal develop mental experiences = tertiary affective temperament?

leave room for learning and mistakes, needs more..

ideas appreciated.

SB_UK
02-27-16, 02:44 PM
We conclude that sex-specific, male-line transgenerational responses exist in humans
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16391557

At the level of genome - survival (vs nutrient deficiency) should result in the most metabolically efficient ie least energy requiring form of epigenome ?

At the level of connectome - survival (vs predator most likely other human being) should result in the most sensitive ie most tuned to predatory presence ?

Adversity should result in selection for metabolic efficiency and sensitivity ?

SB_UK
02-27-16, 03:03 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16391557

At the level of genome - survival (vs nutrient deficiency) should result in the most metabolically efficient ie least energy requiring form of epigenome ?

At the level of connectome - survival (vs predator most likely other human being) should result in the most sensitive ie most tuned to predatory presence ?

Adversity should result in selection for metabolic efficiency and sensitivity ?

genome primary temperament ? homeostatic
connectome secondary temperament ? sensory

homeostasis distress emotional distress
sensory distress emotional distress

SB_UK
02-27-16, 03:23 PM
Temperament - profile of behaviours which we're drawn towards to obtain reward eg informational sensitivity 'd be drawn to informationally quiet environments ?

Eustress between distress of too much and too little information.

SB_UK
02-27-16, 03:36 PM
Without any need to define a mechanism

And since evolution is associated with selection of traits which favour survival

And without any knowledge of the gene or the nerve

Would suggest that future generations should become more sensitive to distressors which their antecedents have encountered and survived - as a means of assisting survival of subsequent generations
- ie if there's trouble it'd pay for subsequent generations to be so finely tuned to distressor that it is avoided.

It's not useful to be resistant to some toxin - if survival is desired -

if survival is sought - heightened sensitivity to distressors would be expected - selection through chronic stress exposure in antecedents ?

SB_UK
02-28-16, 08:28 AM
It's not useful to be resistant to some toxin - if survival is desired -


apologies
- meaning resistant to detection rather than resistant to effects.

mildadhd
02-29-16, 12:35 AM
I have the flu. The lights are hurting my eyes and sounds are annoying (sensory). I have a fever and lack appetite (homeostatic). I am anxious and lack motivation (emotional). Interfering even more with my ability focus, read/understand and reply to the posts.

SB_UK
02-29-16, 03:31 AM
I have the flu. The lights are hurting my eyes and sounds are annoying (sensory). I have a fever and lack appetite (homeostatic). I am anxious and lack motivation (emotional). Interfering even more with my ability focus, read/understand and reply to the posts.

So - adversity (vs infectious disease) can be held as particularly important agents in our evolution ie adversity vs infectious agents, adversity vs predators, adversity vs insufficient food availability (needing to be better prey and predator) -

- all three of these drive decreased energy requirement + increased sensory sensitivity ?

I have this cold also - haven't been able to function for 3 or so weeks - doesn't go away as long as it's cold outside.
Hate the cold + dark.

I'd have thought that infectious diseases would have driven us away from carbs as their preferred energy source.
To shift from supportign carb. fuelled pathogenic to fat fuelled (butyrate) bacteria - which we need.

eg http://www.science20.com/news_articles/butyrate_therapy_fatty_acid_produced_gut_bacteria_ boosts_immune_system-124388

mildadhd
02-29-16, 01:15 PM
So - adversity (vs infectious disease) can be held as particularly important agents in our evolution ie adversity vs infectious agents, adversity vs predators, adversity vs insufficient food availability (needing to be better prey and predator) -

- all three of these drive decreased energy requirement + increased sensory sensitivity ?

I have this cold also - haven't been able to function for 3 or so weeks - doesn't go away as long as it's cold outside.
Hate the cold + dark.

I'd have thought that infectious diseases would have driven us away from carbs as their preferred energy source.
To shift from supportign carb. fuelled pathogenic to fat fuelled (butyrate) bacteria - which we need.

eg http://www.science20.com/news_articles/butyrate_therapy_fatty_acid_produced_gut_bacteria_ boosts_immune_system-124388


Really interesting. Through out my life. Even when terribly flu sick, I have always felt the lack of appetite, as some kind of opportunity. Because when I am not sick I tend toward overeating (addiction/anthestetic). What is really weird is that it has been nice and warm and sunny here, the last week or so. Allergies give me a runny nose. My feet crack depending on where I live. The last flu I had prior to this flu, I was really surprised not to lose my appetite.

mildadhd
02-29-16, 02:01 PM
Unconditioned primary sensory, homeostatic and emotional affective response systems + preverbal experiences = primary temperament?

Lunacie
02-29-16, 03:33 PM
Wiki has a very interesting article discussing what temperament is and many different ways of describing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperament.

mildadhd
02-29-16, 04:45 PM
Most experts agree that temperament has a genetic and biological basis, although environmental factors and maturation modify the ways a child's personality is expressed.


Thanks

No matter if we are discussing a more robust temperament or a more sensitive temperament, unconditioned sensory, homeostatic and emotional affective response systems seem to be "a genetic and biological" foundational part of our temperaments. (environment and age being some other parts)