View Full Version : Even miserable mammals love company.


mildadhd
03-05-16, 07:07 PM
It is fascinating to think that many reptiles will lay their eggs, and then leave their offspring to hatch and raise themselves. If mammalian caregivers left their offspring to raise themselves, the mammalian offspring would not survive. This thread is meant to understand mammalian relationships essential for healthy mammalian development.

Fuzzy12
03-10-16, 07:11 AM
Apparently Emperor Frederic conducted an experiment to discover the natural language of humans (i.e. the language that humans might speak if they don't actually learn any language). He isolated a number of babies and had them taken care of by nurses but the nurses were not allowed to speak to the babies and apparently they were also not allowed to show any sentiments to the babies (though I'm not sure about the second part. It doesn't seem to further the purpose of the experiment in any way.). Anyway, apparently all the babies died from the lack of touch and affection even though all their other basic needs were taken care of.

daveddd
03-10-16, 07:16 AM
thats sick

Fuzzy12
03-10-16, 12:19 PM
thats sick

Yes, it's very sad.

There have been many similar experiments conducted to study the origin of language or what the natural language of humans is. I think, James the IV sent two kids to live on a remote island to live with a mute woman. Apparently, they started speaking perfect Hebrew, however, that claim is highly disputed.. :lol:

More on topic, you keep hearing of isolated of instances of feral kids as well, isn't it? Kids who grow up severely neglected and they seem to have huge developmental and emotional problems, in some cases irreversible.

mildadhd
03-12-16, 12:53 AM
Yes, it's very sad.

There have been many similar experiments conducted to study the origin of language or what the natural language of humans is. I think, James the IV sent two kids to live on a remote island to live with a mute woman. Apparently, they started speaking perfect Hebrew, however, that claim is highly disputed.. :lol:

More on topic, you keep hearing of isolated of instances of feral kids as well, isn't it? Kids who grow up severely neglected and they seem to have huge developmental and emotional problems, in some cases irreversible.

Interesting. Thank You so much. In your second example in post #4 above, I do not think the children would learn to speak perfect Hebrew or other existing languages, if they where never exposed. But I think that if the right conditions for development existed, some form of communication would develop. If the island and family, provided enough emotional support for the woman and children's own emotional health to some degree, the children would survive to adulthood. Unlike the example in post #2, where the children had no emotional support and did not survive.





^

mildadhd
03-12-16, 01:51 AM
Emotional systems = ability for communication
No emotional systems = no ability for communication.

No emotional relationship = no survival
Emotional relationship = survival



V

mildadhd
03-12-16, 01:01 PM
thats sick

Very depressing.

Hypothesis: society learn more about the biological value of mammalian attachment, in regards to ADHD origin and ADHD treatment.




<

SB_UK
03-12-16, 03:32 PM
Understand if this means 'species-wide' attachment.
A social impulse or mechanism of cohesion which keeps the species 'in check' - thing is - is that this facility shouldn't be negotiable which it currently is.

Nobody should (and near everybody does) contravene the moral code by using money.

Taking instead of Giving.

mildadhd
03-13-16, 03:13 AM
Understand if this means 'species-wide' attachment.
A social impulse or mechanism of cohesion which keeps the species 'in check' - thing is - is that this facility shouldn't be negotiable which it currently is.

Nobody should (and near everybody does) contravene the moral code by using money.

Taking instead of Giving.


Reptiles and mammals have a primary SEEKING/expectancy emotional response system.

Reptiles and mammals have a primary RAGE/anger emotional response system.

Reptiles and mammals have a primary FEAR/anxiety emotional response system.

Reptiles and mammals have a primary LUST/sexuality emotional response system.

Mammals have a primary CARE/attachment social emotional response system.

Mammals have a primary GRIEF/sadness social emotional response system.

Mammals have a primary PLAY/joy social emotional response system.


These response systems interact in different ways depending on emotional circumstances.

Example:

Emotional experiences stimulating GRIEF/sadness inhibit CARE/attachment, and PLAY/joy.

I am guessing morality and money would involve the tertiary neocortex prcesses, with evolutionary roots in the primary process SEEKING/expectation motivation system? (VTA to the OFC)

Maybe if we understand the primary SEEKING/expectancy and other separate interacting primary emotional response systems better we could find better tertiary general social motivational concepts, than money.




>

SB_UK
03-13-16, 03:38 AM
Even miserable mammals love companyPersonally I'd be happy in complete solitude, complete silence in the sun. It's mostly to do with dissociating away from the mind. The human mind is like 'sleep deprivation torture' each time the mind wants to dissociate daydream it raises a wholly pointless concern.

It's not very pleasant talking (using the consciouc mind) to other people because the words are generally - "I understand" whilst thinking your solutions aren't solving the problem and the solution (your mind completing and you gaining wisdom) will render whatever you're worrying about redundant.

So everything from famine, disease, squalour, crime, climate change, sleeplessness, poverty ie EVERYTHNG that human beings fail to solve whilst pretending to address in their daily lives - are solved by (synonyms) {the individual's mind growing up, the individual knowing objective right from wrong, the individual gaining wisdom}.

At which point

SEEK - 'found' there's nothing which the individual MUST seek - though 'seek' (using creativity/imagination to make the world better) can become a pastime - hard to see in this world though, since when co-workers have other agendas - it's better to withdraw than strive towards a beter world - since the 'better world' is only a vehicle for those without wisdom to further their own agenda. It's not possible for the motivation to make a better world to work alongside anybody who isn't using a similar motivational scheme. Useful technologies will just become weaponry. It's not particularly a desire for solitude - it's a desire to be away from WRONG (immoral) motivation. Right motivation arises through completion of mind - wisdom.

RAGE - only seen in incomplete mind vs incomplete mind (ie 2 people with personal agendas) - complete mind will avoid incomplete minds avoiding RAGE and there's no space for RAGE in interactions between 2 complete minds.

FEAR - see above.

LUST - a part of the human pre-programmed life-cycle which involves man-woman attachment, woman-child attachment and then at state wisdom (if the individual arrives there) - the loss of material world attachment and the loss of LUST like an individual who is addicted to a drug - from controlling, into free will operating the strings on the human puppet. Although free will is often thought of as this state in which we're in control ... ... it's actually morality which is under control - and so it's better to suggest that we simply shift from pre-programmed material world (procreation) control into informational (morality) control modes for our behaviour. IE from 1 reward system (material world attachment) to another informational reward attachment where we have free will (wisdom - a state in which doing the moral thing within backdrop of informational sensitivity/quality (ie beauty) becomes our motivational scheme).

CARE - much like fear is to rage, so is care to lust.
There's no actual need to care if you're defined on caring ie the moral mind is a stipulation of caring - and so we need not care in the other sense - particularly since care in the older sense only refers to a limited subset of entities - that is - that care is generally only associated with those around you. This isn't a useful characteristic in a global species which requires on all Universal constructs eg sun to operate.

GRIEF - when the mind can dissociate freely at wisdom - and all people operate in keeping with wisdom (morality) - all people will have the best lives they can and will not notice when they themselves die. There's no room for GRIEF - to be replaced by JOY - whch indicates the state of mind of people (all people) spendign their lives making the world ever better. Just one joyful experience after the next - until no longer present.

PLAY - see SEEK - PLAY isn't possible just yet - and only becomes possible when all people adopt moral motivation or motivations in lne with morality - for then PLAY will represent creativity representing making 'things' for all Universal constructs 'better'.

All of these terms have a different meaning pre-wisdom and post-wisdom.

So

mine + education to morality is reflected in ^^^ emotional states

-*-

So

Pre-programmed (mostly material world procreation cycle) - emotions (one set of definitions) - rage/fear are possibly necessary for morality (moral outrage) to win (in the end).
Post-wisdom - emotions (another set of definitions)

mildadhd
03-13-16, 04:00 AM
Personally I'd be happy in complete solitude, complete silence in the sun.It's mostly to do with dissociating away from the mind.

It's not very pleasant talking (using the consciouc mind) because the words are generally - I understand, your solutionas aren't solving the problem and the solution (your mind completing and you gaining wisdom) will render whatever you're worrying about redundant.

FEAR/Dissociate?

SB_UK
03-13-16, 04:14 AM
So - vey simply.

Before wisdom
Emotions -> control -> Individual
(eg in addiction where the need for alcohol trumps all logical/rational/moral concerns)

After wisdom
Logical/rational/moral concerns -> control -> Individual ('s emotions)
(eg we retract into solitude because there's no method of being moral in a world filled with addicts (people who have made the wrong choice) to greed).

Either feed a mind which knows morality or feed greed.

The key problem which people will have here - is that all of the people who you will 'look up' to will have fed greed; it's the reason why many, many celebrites, actors, politicians, business men, bankers ie this world's celebrated few are linked with acts of extreme criminal immorality - from Jimmy Saville through to Bernie Madoff.

Choose morality vs a permutation of greed - choose greed and the individual will implode.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 04:20 AM
FEAR/Dissociate?

That's interesting

Classic ADHD



However, for people with ADHD, the more they try to focus their attention, the more their brain activity slows down. It seems unfair, because the harder they try, the worse it gets.

Distress -> Dissociation
Fear -> Distress -> Dissociation


Fear -> Distress -> Pain -> Dissociation

Fear -> Cortisol -> Opiate -> Dissociation

Cortisol or Opiate ?

-*-

So - opiates kick in (we dissociate) when we're in pain.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 04:29 AM
SEEK/PLAY (and many of the other emotion)

We have different SEEK/PLAY stages in life.

baby - SEEK attachment - LEARN empathy
toddler - PLAY - LEARN gross motor function
child - word/number PLAY (knowledge) - LEARN language
teenager - PLAY sport, music, art - LEARN fine motor activity
adult - SEEK enlightenment (understanding - abstract knowledge) - LEARN morality

The emotions can be re-phrased as a developmental program of blank slate learning ie we're predisposed to undergo a series of SEEK/PLAYs in order to end up with a planet of ENLIGHTENED individuals (moral) with children rowing towards ENLIGHTENMENT.

Other emotions eg RAGE/FEAR should be elicited when developmental SEEK/PLAY programs aren't allowed to be accessed.

LUST/CARE/GRIEF can allbe re-phrased as some point in the shifting definitions of the 'LEARNING' developmental program eg a LUST for running, CARE in painting, GRIED when we're made to put our SEEK/PLAY out of mind.

-*-

So - suggestion that all EMOTIONS are representations (definitions of which are re-defined) of a neural developmental program from birth through to enlightenment.

EMOTIONS subservient to LEARNING employing as wide a sense as possible ie from empathy through sensory and motor into morality.

-*-

Simple way of working out what LEARNING means is to see what we're born knowing how to do and what we must gain.
Simple way of working out the order which we're supposed to learn things - examine people.

Noting - potentially altered developmental program in ADDers meaning that shifting through the stages occurs at different ages in different people - partic ADDers which is why ... ...
See chart ->
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12189369/ADHD-is-vastly-overdiagnosed-and-many-children-are-just-immature-say-scientists.html

Developmental delay most pronounced in younger ADDers in the class ie least problems in September-born children and most problems in August-born children.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 04:40 AM
School.

1. Dissolve 'classes' by age and shift people into classes based on ability (they do this in our kid's swimming classes) and so it should be easily possible.
2. Dissolve money and so kids who're 'faster' don't look down on kids who aren't as good.

Learning then becomes about making you as good as you can be.
And not about being 'better' than other people in entirely contrived examinations - which are simply a test of language capacity, temporary memory and by far most significantly - docility.

You'll tend to find that the kid who's good at language will be poor at art.
Or that the kid who's good at running will be poor at language.

To develop a neurally rounded person - it's good to get the high flier in remedial classes in areas of neural development which they're not so gifted in.
Better for them.

No point in making somebody who's already imbalanced - topple over through asymmetric schooling - since this form of education is not going to predispose to wisdom - but pointless complexity - which is obvious if we look at the world around - and the fact that nobody really understands anybody else's speciality.

And so it'll all balance out - and each child will be placed into an ability appropriate group.

No point in teaching a kid who can't add how to do calculus.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 05:06 AM
So - we've a problem in whch

inappropriate LEARNinG -> DISTRESS -> Destroys LEARNing capacity

The effects of stress on the learning/developing brain ie to wholly disrupt its development.

-*-

Still - the solution is:
[1] Shift from capitalism into voluntaryism
[2] Skill appropriate LEARNing (Jack of all trades) with MORALity (WISDOM) as end-point ... ... at which point - one can choose to be a MASTER in one - or whatever really.

There's no absolute imperative to 'do' anything - all that's expected of us is 'to be happy' requiring completion of mind.

'Do' - by all means though - if it makes you happy and what you're doing is making things better for people.

Interesting problems arise when we enter eg video games programming - are we making the world better or worse through the program ?
If we simply see tech as a means of making ourselves better and not a means of making ourselves lazier - then we solve this problem.
A video game that makes us 'better' is easy to code.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 05:19 AM
Even miserable mammals love companyHowever - as far as company goes - in this world - the dog is the only option.
Not immoral if socialized.
Doesn't talk.

Presumably the dog'll be fine in the next world also.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 05:29 AM
Even miserable mammals love company.addiction (greed) ** [anti-social] <- birth -> morality [social *]

.......................................... Evolutionary programming ->

Even miserable mammals love company.** Miserable mammal
* Loves company