View Full Version : Hypothesis: ADHD is nothing but childhood PTSD


dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 07:10 PM
In my case ADHD is PTSD that occurred during the early period of implicit (preverbal) stages of development. Biologically they are the same things, not different things.
Biologically? How do you know this? What are your specific biological differences from the average person, and how do you know that I share those same ones? How did you discover these underlying biological differences?

(Note: I have intentionally placed this thread in the "Science" section because I'm trying to clarify the facts as currently known, not to invite speculation. If there's no reproducible and falsifiable evidence, then please just say so from the start.)

daveddd
03-05-16, 07:17 PM
if you actually want to know


excellent start right here

http://www.amazon.com/Affect-Dysregulation-Disorders-Allan-Schore/dp/0393704068

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 07:20 PM
if you actually want to know


excellent start right here

http://www.amazon.com/Affect-Dysregulation-Disorders-Allan-Schore/dp/0393704068
I appreciate that - but could you give a summary of the essentials? I'm not going to go and read a book right now, unfortunately.

daveddd
03-05-16, 07:25 PM
well starting off , we don't have a biomarker for ADHD

but there are some differences in the way some parts of our brain operate that we have seen

in schores book he talks about different pathways to emotional dysregulation and specific brain differences (mainly early development)

in some cases they are the same differences as seen in the emotional dysregulation in ADHD

and same behaviors

Fuzzy12
03-05-16, 07:31 PM
well starting off , we don't have a biomarker for ADHD

but there are some differences in the way some parts of our brain operate that we have seen

in schores book he talks about different pathways to emotional dysregulation and specific brain differences (mainly early development)

in some cases they are the same differences as seen in the emotional dysregulation in ADHD

and same behaviors

Fascinating. And does he give a theory of how
W or why these differences arise?

daveddd
03-05-16, 07:33 PM
just a note , the thread title and the quote are different

I'm answering towards the quote not the thread title

daveddd
03-05-16, 07:37 PM
Fascinating. And does he give a theory of how
W or why these differences arise?

yes, but its pretty much the whole

self regulation is learned, if someone was born in the woods with no human contact they would never have the top down (executive ) regulation

there seems to be a large number of reasons why people wont learn this


for reference schore is far and away the most highly cited psychobiologist in the world

that doesn't make everything a fact, but i know its easy to find books on pretty much any theory is only why i mention it

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 07:52 PM
just a note , the thread title and the quote are different

I'm answering towards the quote not the thread title
I see in the quote that PTSD and ADHD are claimed to be identical, at least in mildadhd's case. If he claims they are identical, then there is no getting around that claim - either the claim is true or it isn't.

KentUnknown
03-05-16, 08:05 PM
I hope this helps, actually. This is an interesting thread. I watched this video over the summer, and it really hit me hard. One thing for sure is my childhood wasn't happy go lucky, things happened and they shape who we are. I am not drowning in pain each and every day anymore like I was when I originally watched it, but I still wonder, why adhd is hard to detect and where it comes from. Don't have much to add, but hopefully this video helps expand the discussion a little bit.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ovIJ3dsNk[/url]

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:14 PM
I hope this helps, actually. This is an interesting thread. I watched this video over the summer, and it really hit me hard...
I'm sorry to be blunt in saying I'm not watching the video, but in this science thread I'm not looking to "expand the discussion", or hear speculation, or listen to "this might interest you" type of things. I just want to find out the already-known verifiable scientific facts on the one thing that is the topic of the thread.

In other words, I'd appreciate keeping this discussion very very narrow, because "expanding" it is just a distraction.

daveddd
03-05-16, 08:16 PM
I'm sorry to be blunt in saying I'm not watching the video, but in this science thread I'm not looking to "expand the discussion", or hear speculation, or listen to "this might interest you" type of things. I just want to find out the already-known verifiable scientific facts on the one thing that is the topic of the thread.

In other words, I'd appreciate keeping this discussion very very narrow, because "expanding" it is just a distraction.

thats tough, there is no verifiable scientific fact on what ADHD actually is

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:17 PM
thats tough, there is no verifiable scientific fact on what ADHD actually is
Well then why are people making claims to know?

KentUnknown
03-05-16, 08:21 PM
Hey, just watch it if you want then. She is a doctor, and has conducted her own studies in which she talks about linking childhood trauma to later issues in life. One of the reasons she started it, was because a LOT of people came to her for ADHD, where she didn complete checks and didn't feel it to be the problem. Turns out 67% of the population deals with ACE's she describes as traumatic for a developing brain. I recommend watching it man, because, its worth it and applies to this discussion. It's a forum after all, right?

Oh, and science is involved.

KentUnknown
03-05-16, 08:24 PM
Well then why are people making claims to know?

Nobody is making claims to know. Actually I readily admit I don't know things if I don't know or am unsure. Science has only gotten this far on that principle. So when I post a video to help "expand the discussion" I hope you know that just means expanding your perception.

daveddd
03-05-16, 08:30 PM
Well then why are people making claims to know?

behaviors are known

and I'm pretty sure its accepted that its not one specific issue

but a group of behaviors that make up a syndrome

so discussing it as a syndrome is scientifically appropriate i assume

Little Missy
03-05-16, 08:31 PM
Well then why are people making claims to know?

By whom? Have I missed something?

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:35 PM
Whom? Have I missed something?
Please see the quotation at the top of this thread.

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:36 PM
behaviors are known

and I'm pretty sure its accepted that its not one specific issue

but a group of behaviors that make up a syndrome

so discussing it as a syndrome is scientifically appropriate i assume
The claim as stated is that ADHD and PTSD are biologically the same thing. I'm not seeing anyone being actually willing to discuss that in a direct manner.

Little Missy
03-05-16, 08:42 PM
The claim as stated is that ADHD and PTSD are biologically the same thing. I'm not seeing anyone being actually willing to discuss that in a direct manner.

Well, all I can say is that they are completely different. For me, anyway.

mildadhd
03-05-16, 08:49 PM
Whose is the title hypothesis?

I always thought hypothesis as a possible solution to a problem.

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:55 PM
Well, all I can say is that they are completely different. For me, anyway.
I don't have PTSD (at least, not as far as I know), and before today I had never heard anyone make an outright claim that PTSD and ADHD are biologically identical. (And as far as I can tell, if they are biologically identical as claimed, then they would have to be absolutely identical as well.)

A person making a claim like that - a claim that if true would create a minor scientific revolution - unfortunately has everything to prove and does not get "the benefit of the doubt" in anything.

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 08:57 PM
Whose is the title hypothesis?

I always thought hypothesis as a possible solution to a problem.
The hypothesis is yours. A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for something, in other words an explanation that hasn't been proved yet. I'm asking for the proof.

aeon
03-05-16, 09:05 PM
ADHD (in children) is childhood PTSD?

Perhaps so when the neurodevelopmental deficits in question would be
better described by, e.g., Developmental Trauma Disorder, as per Van Der Kolk, etc.

But I don’t think that is true in all cases. My sense is there are many pathways,
biological and otherwise, to ADHD in childhood, and later, adulthood.

in schores book he talks about different pathways to emotional dysregulation and specific brain differences (mainly early development)

in some cases they are the same differences as seen in the emotional dysregulation in ADHD

and same behaviorsIndeed, but don’t think because something walks, talks, and looks like a duck that it is a duck, at least in the pond of neuropsychology.

I’m a huge fan of Dr. Schore, and I think there is merit to the idea expressed
in the thread title.

As to the quote...Hitchens’s Razor all night and day. ;)


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-05-16, 09:16 PM
Just to add, I know my trauma history, I know my ACE score (7), I am diagnosed ADHD-PI, and now PTSD.

I have a good sense of how those things are related, but I don’t have evidence of there being causation between and among them all except where the effect was the PTSD...which did not develop until long after my ADHD-PI had made itself known.


Cheers,
Ian

Little Missy
03-05-16, 09:18 PM
I had ADHD long before PTSD. Many moons.

mildadhd
03-05-16, 09:19 PM
The hypothesis is yours. A hypothesis is a proposed explanation for something, in other words an explanation that hasn't been proved yet. I'm asking for the proof.

Do you really expect me to try and defend a title, I did not even write?

mildadhd
03-05-16, 09:20 PM
Considering the entire brain.

Exposure to higher levels of cortisol occurring during early life, influences development of brain areas associated with ADHD.

In my case, ADHD is a type of PSTD.

mctavish23
03-05-16, 09:21 PM
mild,

With all due respect, while I have no idea about your personal experiences, I do know

after studying the peer reviewed research on ADHD for 30+ years, plus devoting my (now

former) 30 year clinical career to the evidenced based diagnosis and treatment of ADHD,

across all populations (children, adolescents & adults), that PTSD & ADHD are absolutely

NOT the same thing. While there are no doubt similarities in the manner of presentation,

the old adage of "Correlation does not equal causation," still holds true.

From my own personal history of multiple traumatizations, from (literally) age 3, to age

53, they're still NOT the same thing.

To me, both personally and professionally, this brings to mind the need for clinicians to

not only do a thorough history upon Intake, but also have read the research on both

problems; as it's possible for them to overlap. In a "perfect world," that would always be

true. However, the profession of Clinical Psychology has changed over the years, to the

point that, even without my stroke in 2013, I simply couldn't keep up with the pressure

to get work documented within a 24-48 hr. time limit.

You've raised an interesting topic and I appreciate it. Thanks.

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:21 PM
Nobody is making claims to know. Actually I readily admit I don't know things if I don't know or am unsure. Science has only gotten this far on that principle. So when I post a video to help "expand the discussion" I hope you know that just means expanding your perception.
Didn't you read the quotation that starts this thread? That is an obvious example of someone claiming to know.

I don't need my perception expanded today thank you, but I'd really like to know the answer to my question.

Little Missy
03-05-16, 09:22 PM
Do you really expect me to try and defend a title, I did not even write?

The first post quoted under the title. :)

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:22 PM
Considering the entire brain.

Consistent higher levels of cortisol in early preverbal life, influences development of brain areas associated with ADHD.

In my case, ADHD is a type of PSTD.
You've made some statements without proof. I'd like to see the proof, please.

Lunacie
03-05-16, 09:24 PM
While PTSD and ADHD do share some symptoms or traits, PTSD has some that are not seen in ADHD.

Shared symptoms:


Feelings of hopelessness, shame, or despair
Depression or anxiety
Drinking or drug problems
Physical symptoms or chronic pain
Employment problems
Relationship problems, including divorce


PTSD symptoms (not ADHD):

Reliving the event (also called re-experiencing symptoms)
You may have bad memories or nightmares. You even may feel like you're going through the event again. This is called a flashback.

Avoiding situations that remind you of the event
You may try to avoid situations or people that trigger memories of the traumatic event. You may even avoid talking or thinking about the event.

Negative changes in beliefs and feelings
The way you think about yourself and others may change because of the trauma. You may feel fear, guilt, or shame. Or, you may not be interested in activities you used to enjoy. This is another way to avoid memories.

Feeling keyed up (also called hyperarousal)
You may be jittery, or always alert and on the lookout for danger. Or, you may have trouble concentrating or sleeping. This is known as hyperarousal.


from: http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/basics/what-is-ptsd.asp

The three main traits of ADHD are not as common in PTSD:

Inattention
Hyperactivity
Impulsiveness

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:24 PM
Do you really expect me to try and defend a title, I did not even write?
If you think my title doesn't properly reflect what you said where I quoted you, then please ignore the title and prove the truth of what you said yourself instead.

In any case, please for the sake of this thread stick to proving only the part that I quoted. If we get off track trying to discuss other things, it will take far too long.

KentUnknown
03-05-16, 09:40 PM
Didn't you read the quotation that starts this thread? That is an obvious example of someone claiming to know.

I don't need my perception expanded today thank you, but I'd really like to know the answer to my question.

The fact you think anyone will have the answer you are looking for is ridiculous, it's far too complex for even the most trusted sources to say with absolute certainty, and you are opposed to looking at it from a different angle, ADHD is still a mystery, lets not forget.

Many strides have been made in figuring it out, but we really still haven't. I stopped analyzing a while ago, for the betterment of myself. Trusting everything will work out and the vibrations are real. What's with everyone and being so materialistic? When did the world shift from concious evolution to physical? I don't know, but I do know, that almost every society is infected with mental illness. I like to think that meditation in childhood learned in school for 30 minutes a day could change that.
After all, we are just the Universe, becoming aware, in the place we call, here and now. Nothing else to say, our ego is the root of all suffering.

I went off a bit, but whatever, you won't read it.

mildadhd
03-05-16, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by mildadhd View Post

In my case ADHD is PTSD that occurred during the early period of implicit (preverbal) stages of development. Biologically they are the same things, not different things.


My type of ADHD is type of PTSD that occurs during the early period of implicit (preverbal) stages of development. In my case ADHD is consistent preverbal PTSD.

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:47 PM
My type of ADHD is type of PTSD that occurs during the early period of implicit (preverbal) stages of development.
OK, you've said that. I'm actually asking what your proof is, not just asking for you to say it again.

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:49 PM
The fact you think anyone will have the answer you are looking for is ridiculous, it's far too complex for even the most trusted sources to say with absolute certainty, and you are opposed to looking at it from a different angle, ADHD is still a mystery, lets not forget.
I'm not opposed to looking from a different angle at all. I'm opposed to someone claiming something is true for certain, when they actually don't know.

aeon
03-05-16, 09:52 PM
My type of ADHD is type of PTSD that occurs during the early period of implicit (preverbal) stages of development, involves the same brain areas associated with ADHD. In my case ADHD is consistent preverbal PTSD.

Hitchens’s Razor. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/joce.gif

mildadhd
03-05-16, 09:52 PM
I'm not opposed to looking from a different angle at all. I'm opposed to someone claiming something is true for certain, when they actually don't know.

Dvdnvwls

Considering the thread title confusion circumstances. Could you reply to all my posts so far in this thread, to show me and other readers you read all my posts in this thread so far?

mildadhd
03-05-16, 09:56 PM
You've made some statements without proof. I'd like to see the proof, please.

Do you know what cortisol is?

daveddd
03-05-16, 09:56 PM
The claim as stated is that ADHD and PTSD are biologically the same thing. I'm not seeing anyone being actually willing to discuss that in a direct manner.

ADHD is not anything biologically.

There are several studies that show similar brain activations in ADHD and ptsd

So what the original quote was. ( not your overly dramatic instigator version). Isn't that far off


Barkleys book executive functions and how they work is good reading for a better understanding of ADHD

He states ADHD does not occur from one specific cause or damage to the pfc

Biological or trauma can cause ef issues

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 09:57 PM
Dvdnvwls

Considering the thread title confusion circumstances. Could you reply to all my posts so far in this thread, to show me and other readers you read all my posts in this thread so far?
I will thank them to show that I've read them. Then we can hopefully get on with the discussion.

Little Missy
03-05-16, 09:58 PM
Do you know what cortisol is?

Yes! It is in that commercial with blazing siren coloured fat deposits in the love handle areas.

aeon
03-05-16, 09:59 PM
Dvdnvwls

Considering the thread title confusion circumstances. Could you reply to all my posts so far in this thread, to show me and other readers you read all my posts in this thread so far?

I am fairly certain he could; he seems of sound mind.

That said, why not answer the question posed to you first?

In some places, answering questions with questions is seen as socially disrespectful. Inasmuch as this is an ADHD forum, we can dispense with that.

Now, about that proof? http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Postfusion.gif

daveddd
03-05-16, 10:04 PM
i love the group instigating

its cute

daveddd
03-05-16, 10:09 PM
While PTSD and ADHD do share some symptoms or traits, PTSD has some that are not seen in ADHD.

Shared symptoms:


Feelings of hopelessness, shame, or despair
Depression or anxiety
Drinking or drug problems
Physical symptoms or chronic pain
Employment problems
Relationship problems, including divorce


PTSD symptoms (not ADHD):

Reliving the event (also called re-experiencing symptoms)
You may have bad memories or nightmares. You even may feel like you're going through the event again. This is called a flashback.

Avoiding situations that remind you of the event
You may try to avoid situations or people that trigger memories of the traumatic event. You may even avoid talking or thinking about the event.

Negative changes in beliefs and feelings
The way you think about yourself and others may change because of the trauma. You may feel fear, guilt, or shame. Or, you may not be interested in activities you used to enjoy. This is another way to avoid memories.

Feeling keyed up (also called hyperarousal)
You may be jittery, or always alert and on the lookout for danger. Or, you may have trouble concentrating or sleeping. This is known as hyperarousal.


from: http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/PTSD-overview/basics/what-is-ptsd.asp

The three main traits of ADHD are not as common in PTSD:

Inattention
Hyperactivity
Impulsiveness



The three main traits of ADHD are not as common in PTSD:

Inattention
Hyperactivity
Impulsiveness
[/QUOTE]

The Effects of Inattentiveness and Hyperactivity on Posttraumatic Stress Symptoms: Does a Diagnosis of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder Matter?
Adams Z1, Adams T2, Stauffacher K3, Mandel H4, Wang Z5.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To address the nature of associations between ADHD symptoms and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) psychopathology in adult military veterans.
METHOD:
Ninety-five combat veterans, with PTSD (n = 63) and without PTSD (n = 32), were recruited for this study. PTSD was assessed with the Clinician-Administered PTSD Scale (CAPS) and ADHD was assessed with Connors' Adult ADHD Rating Scale-Self-Report: Short Version (CAARS-S:S).
RESULTS:
PTSD participants endorsed greater hyperactivity or restlessness, inattention or memory problems, and impulsivity or emotional lability scores than participants without PTSD. Among PTSD participants, inattention or memory problems and impulsivity or emotional lability were significant predictors of total PTSD symptoms, but only inattention or memory problems significantly predicted PTSD symptoms when other ADHD symptom clusters were considered simultaneously.
CONCLUSION:
Our data suggest that inattention may serve as a risk factor for posttraumatic stress symptoms following combat exposure.
© 2015 SAGE Publications.


this says the opposite

daveddd
03-05-16, 10:14 PM
Posttraumatic stress disorder in adult attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder: clinical features and familial transmission.
Antshel KM1, Kaul P, Biederman J, Spencer TJ, Hier BO, Hendricks K, Faraone SV.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is characterized by clinically significant functional impairment due to symptoms of inattention and/or hyperactivity and impulsivity. Previous research suggests a link, in child samples, between ADHD and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), which is characterized by (1) chronically reexperiencing a traumatic event, (2) hyperarousal, and (3) avoiding stimuli associated with the trauma while exhibiting numbed responsiveness. This study sought to address the link between ADHD and PTSD in adults by providing a comprehensive comparison of ADHD patients with and without PTSD across multiple variables including demographics, patterns of psychiatric comorbidities, functional impairments, quality of life, social adjustment, and familial transmission.
METHOD:
Participants in our controlled family study conducted between 1998 and 2003 were 190 adults with DSM-IV ADHD who were attending an outpatient mental health clinic in Boston, Massachusetts; 16 adults with DSM-IV ADHD who were recruited by advertisement from the greater Boston area; and 123 adult controls without ADHD who were recruited by advertisement from the greater Boston area. All available first-degree relatives also participated. Subjects completed a large battery of self-report measures (the Quality of Life Enjoyment and Satisfaction Questionnaire, items from the Current Behavior Scale, the Social Adjustment Scale Self-Report, and the Four Factor Index of Social Status) designed to assess various psychiatric and functional parameters. Diagnoses were made using data obtained from structured psychiatric interviews (Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis I Disorders, Clinician Version, and the Schedule for Affective Disorders and Schizophrenia for School-Aged Children-Epidemiologic Version).
RESULTS:
The lifetime prevalence of PTSD was significantly higher among adults with ADHD compared with controls (10.0% vs 1.6%; P = .004). Participants with ADHD and those with ADHD + PTSD did not differ in core symptoms of ADHD nor in age at onset, but those with ADHD + PTSD had higher rates of psychiatric comorbidity than those with ADHD only (including higher lifetime rates of major depressive disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, social phobia, agoraphobia, and generalized anxiety disorder) and worse quality of life ratings for all domains. Familial risk analysis revealed that relatives of ADHD probands without PTSD had elevated rates of both ADHD (51%) and PTSD (12%) that significantly differed from rates among relatives of controls (7% [P ≤ .001] and 0% [P ≤ .05], respectively). A similar pattern of elevated risk for ADHD and PTSD (80% and 40%) was observed in relatives of probands with ADHD + PTSD (P ≤ .001 for both conditions).
CONCLUSIONS:
The comorbidity of PTSD and ADHD in adults leads to greater clinical severity in terms of psychiatric comorbidity and psychosocial functioning. The familial coaggregation of the 2 disorders suggests that these disorders share familial risk factors and that their co-occurrence is not due to diagnostic errors.

"share familial risk factors and that their co-occurrence is not due to diagnostic errors."

tells me there could be shared biology

aeon
03-05-16, 10:18 PM
For a couple of domains, you can say a statement of absolute certainty with no proof, and that isn’t challenged or questioned...
you just get a label of being a “true believer” or “crazy,” respectively.

When you do that with science, you don’t get that kind of a pass, and if you have no proof to offer, you might get any number
of labels, some unkind at that.

The bigger problem, I think, is that the proof-lacking person loses credibility in the mind of many, and rightly so. Time is
too short to waste it on conjecture alone.


Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
03-05-16, 10:19 PM
I will thank them to show that I've read them. Then we can hopefully get on with the discussion.

Now that you read them. Answer

dvdnvwls
03-05-16, 10:20 PM
Me? Yes, I read them all. I've read every post by everyone on this thread, at least once.

daveddd
03-05-16, 10:21 PM
For a couple of domains, you can say a statement of absolute certainty with no proof, and that isn’t challenged or questioned...
you just get a label of being a “true believer” or “crazy,” respectively.

When you do that with science, you don’t get that kind of a pass, and if you have no proof to offer, you might get any number
of labels, some unkind at that.

The bigger problem, I think, is that the proof-lacking person loses credibility in the mind of many, and rightly so. Time is
too short to waste it on conjecture alone.


Cheers,
Ian


I'm sorry, if you're looking for proof, you don't understand the science field of psychology

mildadhd
03-05-16, 10:22 PM
Me? Yes, I read them all. I've read every post by everyone on this thread, at least once.

Answer then.

Do you know what cortisol is?

aeon
03-05-16, 10:28 PM
I'm sorry, if you're looking for proof, you don't understand the science field of psychology

I’m not looking for a proof, just a good time. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Jumpup.gif

That said, I do think mildadhd’s statement was questionable, and I support the idea of dvdnvwls questioning it.

When things get said with no offer of proof or means to understand, the other monkeys get nervous, that’s all. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Spamafote.gif


Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
03-05-16, 10:29 PM
I’m not looking for a proof, just a good time. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Jumpup.gif

That said, I do think mildadhd’s statement was questionable, and I support the idea of dvdnvwls questioning it.

When things get said with no offer of proof or means to understand, the other monkeys get nervous, that’s all. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Spamafote.gif


Cheers,
Ian


Aeon,

What is cortisol?

aeon
03-05-16, 10:31 PM
Answer then.

Wow, without even a “please.”

Maybe those rules shouldn’t be dismissed so easily.

Do you know what cortisol is?

Yes, but what about that proof? :p


Nevermind,
Ian

daveddd
03-05-16, 10:31 PM
well i guarantee i can look through the forums, find a couple posts a day stated factually about ADHD that don't placate me emotionally . rearrange their words in a very manipulative fashion, and find a couple cheerleaders to cheer me on

i guess i don't see the point

mildadhd
03-05-16, 10:32 PM
Aeon or/and Dvdnvls

What is cortisol?

What ages would be considered the preverbal stages of development?

I mean if you don"t know the biology and stages of development involved, how you going to understand?

Little Missy
03-05-16, 10:34 PM
well i guarantee i can look through the forums, find a couple posts a day stated factually about ADHD that don't placate me emotionally . rearrange their words in a very manipulative fashion, and find a couple cheerleaders to cheer me on

i guess i don't see the point

Yeah sometimes the point evades me too.

aeon
03-05-16, 10:41 PM
Aeon or/and Dvdnvls

What is cortisol?

What ages would be considered the preverbal stages of development?

I mean if you don"t know how you going to understand my hypothesis, when I actually post it?

I guess we wouldn’t. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Fusion.gif

Anyway, what part of Hitchens’s Razor do you not understand?

It’s on you to offer it up. You made the claim. We get to wait. We don’t have to answer jack. It’s on you to offer your proof.

If you aren’t willing, or can’t, just say as much and we can move on and adjust our sense of things accordingly.

Your refusing to answer and then getting all condescending isn’t helping.

So, about that proof? It’s OK if you don’t have one, no big deal really.

In case what I said wasn’t clear, I won’t be answering your questions until you answer dvdnvwls’. :)


Thanks,
Ian

Little Missy
03-05-16, 10:44 PM
Please. :)

mildadhd
03-05-16, 10:47 PM
You won't even focus on my intentionally simple answer, there does not seem like any reason to get more scientically complex til you understand what cortisol is or the stages of development I am focusing on. Any reader can see your avoiding any serious discussion about the biological research involved.

mctavish23
03-05-16, 10:53 PM
Again, With All Due Respect,

None of this has anything to do with Cook et.al., 1995; and defining the genetic marker

for ADHD. (This is the first study on what has now been confirmed).

tc

mctavish23

(Robert)

Little Missy
03-05-16, 10:53 PM
You won't even focus on my intentionally simple answer, there does not seem like any reason to get more scientically complex til you understand what cortisol is or the stages of development I am focusing on. Any reader can see your avoiding any serious discussion about the biological research involved.

I'm listening. Please, layout the scientific complexities.

aeon
03-05-16, 10:54 PM
You won't even focus on my intentionally simple answer, there does not seem like any reason to get more scientically complex til you understand what cortisol is or the stages of development I am focusing on. Any reader can see your avoiding any serious discussion about the biological research involved.

You keep telling yourself that. ;)


Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
03-05-16, 11:13 PM
I'm listening. Please, layout the scientific complexities.


Do you know what cortisol is

What ages are early preverbal stages of development.

Lets start their.

Lunacie
03-05-16, 11:32 PM
Do you know what cortisol is

What ages are early preverbal stages of development.

Lets start their.

Please explain what cortisol and early preverbal stages of development have in common.

And how they connect PTSD and ADHD together.

If we don't understand your explanation, then we can back up to the definitions.

dvdnvwls
03-06-16, 12:10 AM
mildadhd: If you prefer to begin with a short explanation of the nature and function of cortisol, that's your choice of course. I'm sufficiently familiar with it as far as I can tell, but either way is fine.

mildadhd
03-06-16, 12:26 AM
I have posted all that I am going to post in this thread. I don't understand some members intentions. Discussing things I didn't say and not discussing the things I did say.

dvdnvwls
03-06-16, 01:34 AM
That explanation doesn't make sense. The original question in this thread is clear and simple, and there's no good reason for you to avoid answering it.

Lunacie
03-06-16, 03:04 AM
I have posted all that I am going to post in this thread. I don't understand some members intentions. Discussing things I didn't say and not discussing the things I did say.

dvd posted a quote by you ... how is that not talking about what you did say?

I haven't seen anyone try to discuss anything other than your post that was quoted and the questions dvd was asking you.

There are no hidden intentions on his part. Go back and read your quote and dvd's questions and discuss what you did write.

namazu
03-06-16, 03:29 AM
Thread closed for review and to allow involved parties to cool down.