View Full Version : Recipes for ADHD origin and ADHD treatment.


mildadhd
03-10-16, 12:32 AM
Because ADHD origin and ADHD treatment has multiple factors.

This thread is meant to explore individual recipes for ADHD origin and ADHD treatment.









All recipes appreciated.

Donny997
03-13-16, 07:47 AM
I haven't read the following book but I flipped through it at the library and it goes into interesting psychodynamic interpretations of ADD: The disintegrating self by Phillip Millon. Obviously the biophysiological "recipe" is a heavier factor, both on terms of etiology and treatment, but I think we also need to
concurrently understand environmental/ psychodynamic causes and treatments.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 08:12 AM
The disintegrating self by Phillip Millon. Obviously the biophysiological "recipe" is a heavier factor, both on terms of etiology and treatment...

commercial website we can't link to
[Millon suggests ADHD is] a range of efforts to cope with potentially overwhelming emotions and anxieties.

Handling sensitivity.

How ? reclusion/seclusion.

daveddd
03-13-16, 10:48 AM
mollons book is currently my favorite book out, its fantastic (man I'm a nerd)

ill link my bought version maybe you guys can read it if you want, i don't know how it works

https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=gD3xBwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA21

SB_UK
03-13-16, 12:28 PM
mollons book is currently my favorite book out, its fantastic (man I'm a nerd)

ill link my bought version maybe you guys can read it if you want, i don't know how it works

https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=gD3xBwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA21

Looks good

p7


ADHD/Autism - sensitivity - overstimulation - where Markram's Intense World Theory is apt

SB_UK
03-13-16, 12:51 PM
p10

traumatically overstimulated - generally an ADD-I issue
highly aversive undestimulation - generally an ADHD issue

P8
Author claims

ADD-I -> <- ADHD
Serotonin -> <- Dopamine

'rest/digest' -> <- fight/flight

Too much PNS tone
Too much SNS tone

Reduced food intake
Increases SNS tone
Decreases PNS tone

-- profile of drugs generated in asthma research

-*-

ADHD ?
Must increase PNS, Decrease SNS
Food - soluble fibre - as origins of serotonin
Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) variation expected in switching from I carb/animal protein -> soluble fibre ?

ADD-I
Must decrease PNS, increase SNS
ANS variation in Fasting ?

^^^ just ideas ... ...

Donny997
03-13-16, 12:55 PM
Ha I knew that book would be good!! I read like one paragraph and I said i need to buy this.. lol. Definitely seemed ownership material.

aeon
03-13-16, 01:08 PM
mollons book is currently my favorite book out, its fantastic (man I'm a nerd)

ill link my bought version maybe you guys can read it if you want, i don't know how it works

https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=gD3xBwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA21

Hmm, tasty and purchased.

:thankyou:


Cheers,
Ian

SB_UK
03-13-16, 01:10 PM
p23
Tasks are left undone because of impaired motivation in ADHD when an activity provides no reward.

Tasks which aren't actually of any importance to mankind other than keeping up the human affinity for bureaucracy ... ...

Author quotes

forms, tax forms
<- exactly.

-*-

Avoid it all by reclsuion / seclusion - why waste valuable daydream time out of theta EEG doing something of NO higher point ?

p23

avoidance syndrome

daveddd
03-13-16, 01:19 PM
so you guys can read the whole thing if i link my purchased version?

SB_UK
03-13-16, 01:39 PM
p27
'wake the brain up'
This is exactly what I've heard independent people describe 3 ADD-I's needing.

p28
slow not fast wave when concentrating
distress -> dissociation (dream-like state)

Why distress ?
Because the ADDer mind isn't interested.

p29
destructive search for stimulation (dopamine)
is just self-medication to handle stress
Dexedrine was given and was an effective anti-depressant

p29
ADD mind is seeking ?
Wisdom (and an escape from the
hunger

p30
Impaired sense of self
Because there is no self - no ego self - ie any labels we use to define ourselves are hollow; all that 'we' are is a learning directive which culminates in happy at morality/wisdom.

The individual who sees himself as a 'name' with a 'job' and a 'house' is the one with a crazy delusion - 'Once in a Lifetime, Talking Heads'
How can the 'artificial constructs' out of nowhere from 14 billion years afo - be anything but constructs of no thing ?

SB_UK
03-13-16, 01:52 PM
Up to p40

Still seeing sensitivity as the core feature.
And distress through immersing sensitivity in insensitivity as the basis to ADHD disorder.

eg p39 fatigue / fibromyalgia

We become tired from the incessant onslaught on our senses of 'information' (of 'noise' masquerading as information).

p39
ADHD and chronic fatigue having the same root
= sensitivity

Distress should switch off PNS and activate SNS.
Should activate cortisol - should inhibit sleep (melatonin=sleep vs cortisol=wake)

SNS resistance/insensitivity. syndromes.
Cortisol insensitivity (loss of immune cell regulation)

p41
mental fatigue - mental exhaustion pronounced during sensory stimulation

P40/P41 paragraph insert
Exactly - overstimulation (distress) - tiredness - ages to recover.
Similar to sleep deprivation.

p42
Interesting - summarising
When we're stressed ? We dream up novel solutions.
We don't go faster (fight/flight) but imagine/daydream more creatively when under duresse.
This is interesting - not had this idea before.
Evolution is supposed to generate more survival-able structures.
We're not programme to run in stress - but to use our heads.
To imagine solutions.

p43
Indigo children - frustrated/rejection rules without justification
See comment p23 'Taxes ... ' above.
We've already found a better way.

p44 Controversies
ALL simultaneously correct - don't know if they're meant to be.

daveddd
03-13-16, 02:31 PM
https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=TS6pgND1xdoC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA71.w.5.0.151

try this one

Donny997
03-13-16, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=SB_UK;1794969]
P8
Author claims

ADD-I -> <- ADHD
Serotonin -> <- Dopamine

QUOTE]

Hmmm. This is one of the reasons I've felt the need to get off my SSRI medication. I'm almost purely inattentive type. I think people are drawn to the drugs that most complement and intensify the defenses they already use, but which hurt them in the long run. So the passive, daydreamy inattentive type would be more drawn to anxiety agents, SSRI's, opioids, alcohol, whatever, because it quells their anxiety which is foreign and allows them to slip back into their passive calm hypoactive state, with which they're familiar. However in the long run this not the best option for an inattentive type (generalizing here). They need DOPAMINE, masculine energy, action, externalization, etc. etc., even though it may make them uncomfortable at first because it makes them feel like a fish out of water.

Similarly, you see a lot of substance abusers who temperamentally seem more ADHD drawn more to cocaine and other stimulants, because it allows them to stay in their hyperactive, aggressive state with which they're familiar. However in the long run they might burn out from this constant vigilance, and perhaps an anxiety agent would be useful too. I realize this logic doesn't apply as well to hyperactive types as stimulants often calm them down, but it's food for thought.

Sometimes the drugs/ substances we want to take aren't always what we need long-term to reverse maladaptive ingrained affective-cognitive-behaviour patterns. Or I could be wrong... just a thought... the future may well make it so I have to jump back on an SSRI, but I'm more comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable now, so I don't see anxiety as a danger state but more as a warning signal that I'm extending myself, which is what I need. I don't think I'm the type who really needs the cozy comfort of a constant stream of serotonin.

daveddd
03-13-16, 02:55 PM
https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=uubOAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&hl=en&pg=GBS.PT104.w.6.0.80


???

SB_UK
03-13-16, 02:55 PM
p53 'overstimulation - too much noise, lights and proximity to others''
Sensitivity -> overstimulated

p56
'although overwhelmed by sensory stimulation his need for stimulation'
sensitivity
overstimulated
distress
self-medication = stimulation

p57
'dexedrine wake up' 'amphetamine calms'
Medication does what self-medication does - it soothes distress - makes distress no longer feel like distress - resulting in normalizing behaviour.
Stimulants simply overcome distress.

'Summary - people with ADHD'
wonder why people without are wasting their lives doing nothing of any higher worth.
And cannot do the same.

... ... .... p62 ... ...... end of sample

Summarising
-- ADHD represents the presence of sensitivity.
-- Which becomes distressful in an insensitive environment.

What we call ADH_Disorder is simply sensitivity (to distress as a consequence)

Donny997
03-13-16, 02:56 PM
https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=TS6pgND1xdoC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA71.w.5.0.151

try this one

Much appreciated dave!

daveddd
03-13-16, 02:58 PM
left another favorite

thomas brown

the unrecognized role of emotion in ADHD

daveddd
03-13-16, 02:59 PM
one for donny, and whoever

https://books.google.com/books/reader?id=JdcWR8zQk-YC&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA236

aeon
03-13-16, 03:15 PM
Hmmm. This is one of the reasons I've felt the need to get off my SSRI medication. I'm almost purely inattentive type. I think people are drawn to the drugs that most complement and intensify the defenses they already use, but which hurt them in the long run. So the passive, daydreamy inattentive type would be more drawn to anxiety agents, SSRI's, opioids, alcohol, whatever, because it quells their anxiety which is foreign and allows them to slip back into their passive calm hypoactive state, with which they're familiar. However in the long run this not the best option for an inattentive type (generalizing here).

Iím Dxíd ADHD-PI, and in my experience, every SSRI/SNRI, without fail, has been either worthless or actively disabling.

Iíve had a couple experiences each with alprazolam, lorazepam, and diazepam. Horrid, lovely, meh, respectively, with acknowledgement of set and setting in terms of valuation.

But goodness sake, give me my dextroamphetamine, and my caffeine, my bupropion, and for a short time in times past, my nicotine. And for that matter dexmethylphenidate...Oh yes, my brain is finally awake! :yes:

Alcohol is energizing/disinhibiting in limited quantities, but beyond that I am a melancholy, weepy mess.

Thereís no pleasure (for me) to be found in psychostimulants, but they WORK...for me.

SSRI/SNRI...gagging, dissociative-spacey, painful sex...just no, not ever, absolutely not, not again.


Cheers,
Ian

SB_UK
03-13-16, 03:15 PM
... So ...

Distress -> drives EEGs slower (into creatively daydreaming up solutions)
Dexedrine -> re-instates EEGs higher (into normal functioning)

The brain has an ideal firing frequency and dexedrine is kidding the distressed ADDer into believing (though it's not true) that they're no longer distressed by elevating us out of 'creative' solution mode - into happy 'functioning' mode.

It's a lie though.

We're supposed to listen to creative mode and change life to eliminate distressor.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 03:17 PM
I’m Dx’d ADHD-PI, and in my experience, every SSRI/SNRI, without fail, has been either worthless or actively disabling.

I’ve had a couple experiences each with alprazolam, lorazepam, and diazepam. Horrid, lovely, meh, respectively, with acknowledgement of set and setting in terms of valuation.

But goodness sake, give me my dextroamphetamine, and my caffeine, my bupropion, and for a short time in times past, my nicotine. And for that matter dexmethylphenidate...Oh yes, my brain is finally awake! :yes:

Alcohol is energizing/disinhibiting in limited quantities, but beyond that I am a melancholy, weepy mess.

There’s no pleasure (for me) to be found in psychostimulants, but they WORK...for me.

SSRI/SNRI...gagging, dissociative-spacey, painful sex...just no, not ever, absolutely not, not again.


Cheers,
Ian

Exactly
But goodness sake, give me my dextroamphetamine, and my caffeine, my bupropion, and for a short time in times past, my nicotine. And for that matter dexmethylphenidate...Oh yes, my brain is finally awake! :yes:


All stopped working though.

Now - even bread hurts (foods with non-negligible GI -are- stimulants).

aeon
03-13-16, 03:20 PM
Sorry to hear that.

And that explains my love of children’s candy, just the pure chunks of sucrose, glucose, dextrose...but I for the most part avoid as my pancreas and liver do nasty stuff to me.

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:22 PM
you guys are all PIs?

thought yous were impulsive and emotional regulation issues?

makes you regular ADHD no?

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:22 PM
or are you just talking physically

SB_UK
03-13-16, 03:23 PM
to slip back into their passive calm hypoactive state

Attaining and holding that state is the dream :-)

Life (society's dictat) prevents us from settling into life under the stimulation which our sensitive nervous system supplies without the need for artificial aids.

It's as one would think - that evolution would complete our build and separate us from any draw to addictively alluring habits which *kill* us prematurely - in a quite unpleasant way.

Imagine a species (as we appear now) hellbent on ensuring our own destruction.

Evolution would not allow this to happen - after several billion years - there's clearly a mechanism at play which leaves nothing to chance.
Illogical, irrational and immoral minds are simply logical, rational and moral minds in development.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 03:26 PM
you guys are all PIs?

thought yous were impulsive and emotional regulation issues?

makes you regular ADHD no?

Inattentive, I think.
Mostly stimulation averse - tryng to find a silent space.

Everything to do with stimulation.

Problem - as sensitivity increases - distress/pain/inflammation also too.

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:33 PM
Inattentive, I think.
Mostly stimulation averse - tryng to find a silent space.

Everything to do with stimulation.

Problem - as sensitivity increases - distress/pain/inflammation also too.

your telegraphic speech style, hints you're a bit avoidant too?

but millůn defines avoidant as escaping from overstimulation of emotions and the environment, sooo

Donny997
03-13-16, 03:36 PM
Iím Dxíd ADHD-PI, and in my experience, every SSRI/SNRI, without fail, has been either worthless or actively disabling.

Iíve had a couple experiences each with alprazolam, lorazepam, and diazepam. Horrid, lovely, meh, respectively, with acknowledgement of set and setting in terms of valuation.

But goodness sake, give me my dextroamphetamine, and my caffeine, my bupropion, and for a short time in times past, my nicotine. And for that matter dexmethylphenidate...Oh yes, my brain is finally awake! :yes:

Alcohol is energizing/disinhibiting in limited quantities, but beyond that I am a melancholy, weepy mess.

Thereís no pleasure (for me) to be found in psychostimulants, but they WORK...for me.

SSRI/SNRI...gagging, dissociative-spacey, painful sex...just no, not ever, absolutely not, not again.


Cheers,
Ian

I think my Lexapro early on when I was on 20 mg and have NO idea what ADD really was diminishing my motor functioning. Like parkisonian-like symptoms of not being able to turn on a dime while walking - there would be a delay. Not right. Can't believe I thought that was normal.

However it does even out my emotional sensitivity. I'm not sure if you have the same, but have you found anything that works for that? I'm thinking of trying Intuiv with my Adderall...

And yes, I don't feel pleasure on stimulants either, but like you said they work. They pierce through the fog somewhat... this is what I need, not more fog to make me feel good.

Donny997
03-13-16, 03:45 PM
your telegraphic speech style, hints you're a bit avoidant too?

but millůn defines avoidant as escaping from overstimulation of emotions and the environment, sooo

Dave this is not my place and I may be overstepping here and/or completely wrong... but you don't really seem avoidant to me. It's an elusive term for me too, but I think it's overused. Remember many personality types can be hypersensitive. Even narcissists can present atypically with timidity and shyness, withdrawing in fear of someone saying something that pops their grandiose bubble. Have you ever been diagnosed?

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:47 PM
Dave this is not my place and I may be overstepping here and/or completely wrong... but you don't really seem avoidant to me. It's an elusive term for me too, but I think it's overused. Remember many personality types can be hypersensitive. Even narcissists can present atypically with timidity and shyness, withdrawing in fear of someone saying something that pops their grandiose bubble. Have you ever been diagnosed?

casually

i fit avoidant to a tee

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:51 PM
also though, the personality disorder categories are pretty much criticized by most


i guess avoidant doesn't have to be specific, someone who avoids emotion (often through language and thought blocking)

i think avoidant i just think that, not a specific personality disorder

Donny997
03-13-16, 03:51 PM
Attaining and holding that state is the dream :-)

Life (society's dictat) prevents us from settling into life under the stimulation which our sensitive nervous system supplies without the need for artificial aids.

It's as one would think - that evolution would complete our build and separate us from any draw to addictively alluring habits which *kill* us prematurely - in a quite unpleasant way.

Imagine a species (as we appear now) hellbent on ensuring our own destruction.

Evolution would not allow this to happen - after several billion years - there's clearly a mechanism at play which leaves nothing to chance.
Illogical, irrational and immoral minds are simply logical, rational and moral minds in development.

Haha it's the archetypal bliss state, heaven, mother-infant bonding, or even representative of being back in the womb where peace and pleasure was everlasting. Chasing the heroin/ psychedelic high...

Donny997
03-13-16, 03:53 PM
also though, the personality disorder categories are pretty much criticized by most


i guess avoidant doesn't have to be specific, someone who avoids emotion (often through language and thought blocking)

i think avoidant i just think that, not a specific personality disorder

Yeah but other personalities have avoidant behaviour or mechanisms. I wouldn't self-diagnose ;).

daveddd
03-13-16, 03:57 PM
i didn't, but i agree with most the PD categories as distinct entities are useless

million says as much as well

the clean cut category of a single PD is a myth, i think were his exact words




i what area or where to you think avoidant is overused, i don't see it used very often at all

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:00 PM
honestly i don't thin you're overstepping i always like a good conversation

but if you met me IRL you may think different

overwhelming general social anxiety

major issues with closeness and intimacy

and the exact rumination and even tics described in AVPD

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:03 PM
i didn't, but i agree with most the PD categories as distinct entities are useless

million says as much as well

the clean cut category of a single PD is a myth, i think were his exact words




i what area or where to you think avoidant is overused, i don't see it used very often at all

I don't think it's clean-cut either... more like we have varying levels of each. So to say someone's avoidant isn't to say they're solely avoidant.

Umm... I think mainly people with social anxiety might think they're avoidant. Or people who are shy.. or an HSP.

Hmm...

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:04 PM
i don't even think i would meet the DX for a PD , not right now at least

i think of it more of my coping styles that contribute to axis 1 disorders

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:04 PM
honestly i don't thin you're overstepping i always like a good conversation

but if you met me IRL you may think different

overwhelming general social anxiety

major issues with closeness and intimacy

and the exact rumination and even tics described in AVPD

Fair enough :).

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:05 PM
Fair enough :).

but, i agree its fairly easy to place yourself into categories that may not be accurate

aeon
03-13-16, 04:05 PM
However it does even out my emotional sensitivity. I'm not sure if you have the same, but have you found anything that works for that?

Dexedrine™.

Haha it's the archetypal bliss state, heaven, mother-infant bonding, or even representative of being back in the womb where peace and pleasure was everlasting. Chasing the heroin/ psychedelic high...

Psychedelic high...well, my days of lysergic acid diethylamide, psilocybin, mescaline, and ayahuasca, not to mention other phenethylamines, are now in the past, and I don’t think I’ll be walking that path again. ;)


Cheers,
Ian

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:06 PM
i don't even think i would meet the DX for a PD , not right now at least

i think of it more of my coping styles that contribute to axis 1 disorders

Neither.. this is why I see PD's as usually somewhat borderline-level functioning. It's pretty damn hard to get diagnosed with one.

aeon
03-13-16, 04:06 PM
I’m not avoidant, not at all, but I am isolating.


Cheers,
Ian

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:07 PM
Dexedrineô.



Psychedelic high...well, my days of lysergic acid diethylamide, psilocybin, mescaline, and ayahuasca are now in the past, and I donít think Iíll be walking that path again. ;)


Cheers,
Ian

Omg always wanted to try ayahuasca at least once... how was that?

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:10 PM
Omg always wanted to try ayahuasca at least once... how was that?

is that the one that has been storied to cure mental illness?

not saying it does or doesn't , i just remember one of them saying they can

aeon
03-13-16, 04:12 PM
Hellish. Profoundly unpleasant.

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:13 PM
the tics were from ruminating about shame scenes, mainly social, where i made a perceived fool of myself

the tics released the energy of the visceral shame that would overwhelm

ill say i beat that mostly with mindfulness

just blabbing

aeon
03-13-16, 04:14 PM
just blabbing

Donít stop. :)

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:17 PM
Hellish. Profoundly unpleasant.

Jeez yeah I heard it can be. So you didn't release your demons and become an enlightened Shaman in Peru?

daveddd
03-13-16, 04:18 PM
Jeez yeah I heard it can be. So you didn't release your demons and become an enlightened Shaman in Peru?

so it is the one , i think i saw a special on it

i want some

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:19 PM
so it is the one , i think i saw a special on it

i want some

Get ready to re-visit your past life as an Egyptian Pharaoh.

aeon
03-13-16, 04:34 PM
Get ready to re-visit your past life as an Egyptian Pharaoh.

There are better things for that.

And no, I only learned to become a demon and Iíve read a couple of books by Mircea Eliade.

Psychologically, I always found lysergic acid the best as nothing was as unapologetic and thorough about jettisoning the ego, and allowing a lift-up of the rock to see the mental creepy-crawlies lying in wait underneath.

And to be fair, I would never recommend that to anyone. But I suppose at the time, I didnít have any appreciation for the fact I really did have something to lose. And there werenít any other options.

I did the best I could, and I am glad I did what I did, it saved my life.


YMMV,
Ian

Donny997
03-13-16, 04:39 PM
There are better things for that.

And no, I only learned to become a demon and Iíve read a couple of books by Mircea Eliade.

Psychologically, I always found lysergic acid the best as nothing was as unapologetic and thorough about jettisoning the ego, and allowing a lift-up of the rock to see the mental creepy-crawlies lying in wait underneath.

And to be fair, I would never recommend that to anyone. But I suppose at the time, I didnít have any appreciation for the fact I really did have something to lose. And there werenít any other options.

I did the best I could, and I am glad I did what I did, it saved my life.


YMMV,
Ian

Thanks for sharing that. I simultaneously want that and don't want that, lol. Were you ever in therapy before that experience, or did you just have no idea about what you were about to confront?

aeon
03-13-16, 04:50 PM
Yes, I was in therapy before that time, and regardless, I knew I was in a state of distress.

And I knew what I was getting into, but once underway, it was so far beyond what I could have ever prepared for.

And by that point I already had decent exposure and experience with a number of chemistries.

Thankfully, curiosity did not kill this cat. ;)

I am 5,430 days sober today. :)


Cheers,
Ian

SB_UK
03-14-16, 08:57 AM
wow!
You're exciting.

From LSD to ayahuasca - shamen to pharoahs.

I can't even do 'bread' as in the stuff that's made from wheat.
And wine causes pain.

Wondering what that whole bread (stimulant) and wine (narcotic) thing that the shamen round this part of Europe keep going on about is all about.

Would just hurt my hands and feet.

Inflammatory pain is overwhelming.

Donny997
03-14-16, 12:49 PM
Speaking of chronic pain, that Mollon book mentions EDS as a possible factor in ADDers. I wonder about that as I have a sister with some joint hypermobility. SB, did you inveatigate about EDS? It's my first time hearing about it...

Lunacie
03-14-16, 01:12 PM
Chronic pain can be cause by things like diabetes, fibromyalgia, even migraine.


Took me the longest time to figure out what this thread is about.

I didn't know that Rx stands for recipe. I've only ever used the word in cooking terms.

SB_UK
03-14-16, 01:27 PM
Speaking of chronic pain, that Mollon book mentions EDS as a possible factor in ADDers. I wonder about that as I have a sister with some joint hypermobility. SB, did you inveatigate about EDS? It's my first time hearing about it...

It's a 'simple' genetic condition i think.

Donny997
03-14-16, 02:48 PM
Chronic pain can be cause by things like diabetes, fibromyalgia, even migraine.


I'm hoping mine is unrelated. But some eery signs in my family regarding the different subtypes, like bruising easy, visible veins, etc.

Yes we've gone wayyy off topic.

Lunacie
03-14-16, 03:11 PM
I'm hoping mine is unrelated. But some eery signs in my family regarding the different subtypes, like bruising easy, visible veins, etc.

Yes we've gone wayyy off topic.

I used to bruise very easily, especially on my legs.

I've only had a couple of bruises since I began taking Vitamin D3.

The last bruise was from a blood draw in my forearm, no surprise there.

daveddd
03-15-16, 05:30 PM
Speaking of chronic pain, that Mollon book mentions EDS as a possible factor in ADDers. I wonder about that as I have a sister with some joint hypermobility. SB, did you inveatigate about EDS? It's my first time hearing about it...

think there been a couple EDS threads

and fragile x (joint hyper mobility, tremor, gait ataxia)