View Full Version : Highly Sensitive People


SB_UK
03-11-16, 02:36 PM
What I am proposing is that my idea of "Attention Difference" is in fact identical with Ealine Aron's concept of The Highly Sensitive Person, and is the phenotype associated with that genotype.

This is the 1 sentence everybody should read on this forum and explains EVERYTHING about the Hell that the ADDer calls life.
Mostly stress-driven inflammation.

When you can't walk or use your hands from inflammation - you know that there's a problem.

SB_UK
03-11-16, 02:43 PM
See wikip/HSP for idea of what sensitivity means.
See Markram model for mechanism.

mctavish23
03-11-16, 05:39 PM
SB,

With All Due Respect To De Niro in "Taxi Driver " :mad: :mad: :eyebrow:

Hmmm, HSP ?? :confused: R U Talkn To Me ? :eyebrow: :eek:


U R Welcome :cool:

mildadhd
03-12-16, 12:20 AM
The genotype–phenotype distinction is drawn in genetics. "Genotype" is an organism's full hereditary information. "Phenotype" is an organism's actual observed properties, such as morphology, development, or behavior. This distinction is fundamental in the study of inheritance of traits and their evolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genotype-phenotype_distinction


Thanks for Kunga Kanga Dorji's quote.

It would be nice to learn more.

Would anyone recommend a video I could watch or a link I could read more about Ealine Aron's or Markram's work and sensitivity?

I wonder where unconditioned primary affective response systems fit in?

I am assuming that because all mammals have the same basic unconditioned emotional behavior systems, that genotype would also be involved in behavior, along with phenotype?

I am not sure?

I have inflammation issues but not so much in the hands and feet? I wonder why the similarities and the differences?

Would it be fair to say hypersensitive people react easier?


.

SB_UK
03-12-16, 03:11 AM
Thanks for Kunga Kanga Dorji's quote.

It would be nice to learn more.

Would anyone recommend a video I could watch or a link I could read more about Ealine Aron's or Markram's work and sensitivity?

I wonder where unconditioned primary affective response systems fit in?

I am assuming that because all mammals have the same basic unconditioned emotional behavior systems, that genotype would also be involved in behavior, along with phenotype?

I am not sure?

I have inflammation issues but not so much in the hands and feet? I wonder why the similarities and the differences?

Would it be fair to say hypersensitive people react easier?


.


Lost entire post and so in notes

Animal
wikiP/HSP
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49757310_Shyness_and_Boldness_in_Humans_and_Other_ Animals

ADHD disorder
Too much info -> Hyper sensitivity -> Hyper emotional (primary unconditioned emotional response) -> Distress -> Pain -> Inflammation

leading to eg inflammatory disorders

http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/8945.html



More likely to suffer from asthma, eczema, and allergies



This was a major line of thinking in research into asthma before mad boy racers in genomics and bioinformatics came along with their fast cars and touch screens.

A sensitive predisposition (http://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-the-simpsons-4osl75fcow8HS).

Remarkable that human beings became so clinically unaware that basic observational skills were lost.

Site of activation of inflammation ?
Dependent on life one leads - so I used hands frequently (many fine movements using a pipette) - hand inflammation.
I exercise plenty - foot/lung inflammation.

Just a consequence of where one places stress on the body pretty much like the weakpoint in a bridge will collapse if you exceed its carrying capacity.

References - wikiP/HSP, and here - but it costs so I haven't clicked:
http://sensitivethemovie.com/

Markram academic site
http://markram-lab.epfl.ch/page-81247-en.html

-*-

Interesting

KD agrees with GM

http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/8945.html
How I Discovered My Hypersensitivity

I first learned about the genetic nature of hypersensitivity by reading Scattered (http://www.amazon.com/Scattered-Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Originates/dp/0452279631), by Gabor Maté, M.D., a physician and psychotherapist. “People with ADD are hypersensitive,” says Maté. “That is not a fault, it is how they were born. It is their inborn temperament.” When I read Aron's The Highly Sensitive Person (http://www.hsperson.com/), I finally recognized this sensitivity in myself. According to Aron, 15 to 20 percent of the population is born with a high level of sensitivity.


-*-

Evidence that ADHD is actually HSP is actually the emergence of people with an informational reward system (courtesy of sensitivity) - lots of lines - here's a good one:

wikiP/HSP

openness to experience.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_person#cite_note-PsychometricEval2006-4)

musical (dopamine chills)
Latent variable models found that openness to experience was the strongest predictor of the typical experience of chills during music.
http://spp.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/10/07/1948550610386810

SB_UK
03-12-16, 03:15 AM
So ... ... ...

we've a complete line drawn through

what is the precursor nature to ADHD ? - sensitivity
what is the basis to ADHD (disorder) ? - hyper sensitivity
what arises post-emergence of sensitivity ? - inflammation/distess leading to diseases of Western living
what's the cure ? - morality (personal acquisition and group expression) and life without co-ercion where the individual is allowed to walk away from any environment without suffering loss of money (and hence no capacity for survival) - which is Markram's intervention for autism distress

SB_UK
03-12-16, 03:18 AM
Basically -

medical genetics / genomics / bioinformations
medical epigenetics
medical neuroscience
medical psychiatry

is all nonsense from the strict perspective of alleviation of suffering (which medicine was meant to be all about).

All we have is the emergence of sensitivity which requires a sensitive (moral) environment in order to function.

The subjects (the bulk of medical research) above aren't providing incorrect data - it's just unnecessary data and so serves only to confuse.

-*-

If anybody wants to overcome disease - then the solution is simply to set up a non-coercive voluntary global society (a global eco-village) where people strive to be the best that they can be, for collective betterment.

NO PAYMENT REQUIRED.

A world in which people GIVE and not TAKE.

You can't do anything meaningful if your reward system involves hurting (everything to do with money) other people.

SB_UK
03-12-16, 03:22 AM
What's there to add ?
Definitely an association to food intake - inflammation also triggered by food.

Homeostatic sensitivity - to blood glucose variation.

Far reduced food intake profile required.

Very difficult to do when cold - easier as the sun comes out.
Wavelength of light dramatially affects mood - decreases food intake requirement.
Also cold triggers food intake ... ... fasting seems to drop body temperature.

Strong suggestion - wholly habituated to living in a location with annual temperature profile identical to Israel.

Incredible pain on the 'stimulant' foods of carbs with GI, dairy and glutamate excitiotoxin containing - vicious pain from parmesan (glutamate).

Even EVOO - more than a little - and pain - inflammation.

Just 1 oily fish (mackerel) + raw fermented vegetables (kim chi) - noting that fish won't be an option as we contaminate the seas and overfish ... ... soon.
So - that'll have to go too.

Of note - this is the Mount Athos diet - where there is no disease and all monks age healthily.

A conspiracy of silence in medical science - everybody wants to patent some thing that'll be the next big thing - we have all of the solutions we need - just no will (through greed) to introduce a fair global infrastructure - we'll find that a shift from capitalism into voluntaryism will eliminate disease - they'll all come out in the wash - as long as an educational scheme is rolled out which emphasizes the personal acquisition of morality ie the individual knowing the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

Very easy to do if people stop over-complicating.

Epidemiology is enough if people are going to argue about what's right and what's wrong (which is in itself wrong) - and people would like a p value.

However - all science is confounded by experimental design and understanding.

Heritability was taken to mean 'geneticness' - whereas it is a measure of much more than straight 'geneticness'.

Novel species emergence would also display a high heritability score.

ADDers represent the emergence of a novel type characterized by informational sensitivity.

daveddd
03-12-16, 08:27 AM
going back to millons biosocial model

hyperaesthetic

mctavish23
03-12-16, 06:34 PM
Going back to De Niro's "Taxi Driver" ... :D :eek:


Bat Manure Paranoid :eyebrow: :eyebrow:


U R Welcome :cool:

daveddd
03-12-16, 08:51 PM
Going back to De Niro's "Taxi Driver" ... :D :eek:


Bat Manure Paranoid :eyebrow: :eyebrow:


U R Welcome :cool:

Me too. I feel part of my ADHD is avoiding it

mildadhd
03-13-16, 03:44 AM
hyperaesthetic


Homeostatic hyperaesthetic
Emotional hyperaesthetic
Sensory hyperaesthetic



<

Donny997
03-13-16, 07:35 AM
I want to see validty in this link because I am a HSP, but what about callous ADDers, i.e. antisocial types? Their ADD is a neurological problem proper.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 08:17 AM
I want to see validty in this link because I am a HSP, but what about callous ADDers, i.e. antisocial types? Their ADD is a neurological problem proper.

high sensitivity -> elevated stress -> increased need for addictive self-medication -> extreme addiction (eg to competition) -> heightened selfish behaviour

The ADDer can behave terribly.

The secret to how well / badly lies in the state of morality which the ADDer's mind has achieved.

High addiction to self-medication without morality is the worst potential combination.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 08:18 AM
Homeostatic hyperaesthetic
Emotional hyperaesthetic
Sensory hyperaesthetic



<

Yes aesthetic <---> sensitive

Donny997
03-13-16, 08:37 AM
high sensitivity -> elevated stress -> increased need for addictive self-medication -> extreme addiction (eg to competition) -> heightened selfish behaviour

The ADDer can behave terribly.

The secret to how well / badly lies in the state of morality which the ADDer's mind has achieved.

High addiction to self-medication without morality is the worst potential combination.

I don't think bad behaviour necessarily equates to anti social personality though. I'm an example of a HSP who had sometimes behaved badly, oppositionally, aggressively in school, but I'm not a psychopath haha. I don't see how psychopaths could be HSP since they're externally and intrapsychically the opposite of highly sensitive. But many have ADD.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 08:53 AM
I don't think bad behaviour necessarily equates to anti social personality though. I'm an example of a HSP who had sometimes behaved badly, oppositionally, aggressively in school, but I'm not a psychopath haha. I don't see how psychopaths could be HSP since they're externally and intrapsychically the opposite of highly sensitive. But many have ADD.
If you drink alcohol you develop tolerance ie can drink plenty before feeling drunk but if you don't drink will become drunk easily

+ drink --- - drink
resistant --- sensitive
insensitive --- sensitive
perhaps
psycho --- sensitive

SB_UK
03-13-16, 08:55 AM
suggesting psycho nature in sensitive is a 'disease' caused by distress
- no human being is born psycho
- it's environmental

SB_UK
03-13-16, 09:07 AM
A psycho is feeding a need for reward which they're insensitive to.
Just the same pathway we see in addiction to pursuit money/power/abuse

Reward system activation insensitivity

Morality kills addictive reward system imparts social reward system

'taking'* vs 'giving'*
psycho immoral hsp vs moral hsp

All kicks off from distress
When in pain - reach out for anything that relieves pain

'Winning' would be one of those self-medications.
Or acquiring money.
Or abusing people.
Or abusing opposite gender.

Just the need to overcome painful sensory overload.

We know eg the nerve as a standalone entity that it has an ideal rate of firing.
Too much firing and it dies off.

We're presumably experiencing a sensitive nervous system undergoing excess information - informational overload - distress - pain - inflammation.

Stress relief - narcotics work eg alcohol provides short-term relief calm down the over-functioning system.

And of course - these short term fixes aren't useful.

Addiction.

Worse still - the socially acceptable addictions eg psychopathy in banker and lawyer (based on studies into psychopathic index by employment).

American psycho was a banker wasn't he ?
A non psychopathic banker 'd do this -
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/cambridge-student-who-graduated-with-triple-first-turns-down-investment-banking-job-to-be-a-yoga-a6716271.html

SB_UK
03-13-16, 09:11 AM
Bottom line would be and exactly as reported by the Markrams in their research on autism.

Reduced information environments required.

In autism we can see how much pain is caused by excess information immersion - the autist is in extreme distress.

ADDers aren't much different.

eg (http://treatautism.ca/2014/05/05/head-banging-and-autism-why-kids-bang-their-heads-and-how-biomedical-treatment-can-help/)

Head banging (http://treatautism.ca/understanding-autistic-behaviours/)is very common in children diagnosed with autism. From a biomedical perspective, head banging is considered a sign or symptom of an underlying problem. Something is triggering the need to head bang. Children with autism have dysregulated brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) that impair their ability to process sensory information (http://treatautism.ca/2014/05/05/2358/).
^^^ adhd except more sensitive not broken.

Fireworks, physical pain, material feel, fast imagery and lots more -provides TOO much information.
Pain results.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 09:20 AM
A psycho is just a 'socially acceptable' (eg banker, lawyer, CEO) addict.

Under the cover though they're just feeding an addiction.

Feeding a reward system which is destroyed by morality.

Once moral, you can't be a banker, lawyer, CEO - no need for money, no need for law and all organizations with a flat structure.

SB_UK
03-13-16, 09:29 AM
Note also food intake - 'comfort' fods

Stress drives food intake.

Partic profile of foods that make you fat

HSPs -> diabesity (epidemic) - world's greatest health problem

- solution -
capitalism -> voluntaryism
education -> imparts morality

daveddd
03-13-16, 09:59 AM
ADHD highly sensitive

adhd callous highly insensitive



J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2013 Feb;52(2):163-171.e2. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2012.11.009.
Emotion regulation and heterogeneity in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.
Musser ED1, Galloway-Long HS, Frick PJ, Nigg JT.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
How best to capture heterogeneity in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) using biomarkers has been elusive. This study evaluated whether emotion reactivity and regulation provide a means to achieve this.
METHOD:
Participants were classified into three groups: children with ADHD plus low prosocial behavior (hypothesized to be high in callous/unemotional traits; n = 21); children with ADHD with age-appropriate prosocial behavior (n = 54); and typically developing children (n = 75). Children completed a task with four conditions: negative induction, negative suppression, positive induction, and positive suppression of affect. The task required children to view an emotion-laden film clip, while either facially mimicking (induction) or masking (suppression) the emotion of the main character. Parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system activity were assessed via respiratory sinus arrhythmia (RSA) and cardiac pre-ejection period (PEP), respectively. Symptoms of anxiety, conduct, and oppositional defiant disorders were treated as covariates.
RESULTS:
The ADHD-typical-prosocial group displayed atypically elevated parasympathetic reactivity (emotion dysregulation) during positive induction, along with increased sympathetic activity (elevated arousal) across conditions. In contrast, the ADHD-low-prosocial group displayed reduced parasympathetic reactivity and reduced sympathetic activity (low emotional arousal) across baseline and task conditions. Thus, both ADHD groups had altered patterns of autonomic functioning, but in two distinct forms.
CONCLUSION:
Although ADHD is heterogeneous clinically, results suggest that ADHD is also heterogeneous with regard to physiological indices of emotion and regulation. Future studies of emotion, regulation, and ADHD should take this into account. Further study of physiological responding in ADHD may yield clinically and etiologically distinct domains or groups.
Copyright © 2013 American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Published by Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
PMID: 23357443 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC4278408 Free PMC Article

Donny997
03-13-16, 10:11 AM
Saying psychopathy is traumatized hypersensitivity is a stretch in the largest sense. Hypersensitive temperaments who experience early life stress / trauma turn out differently than callous types do. I don't think it follows that callous types were previously HSP, unless the trauma was overwhelmingly, greusomely traumatic so as to make a sensitive kid psychopathic. The school shooters, for example, are usually more schizoid (sensitive) than truly psycopathic. Callous types are not shy, touchy-feely, empathic, peace-oriented - they're the opposite. Real psychopaths lack the very empathy HSP's are abundant in (and I think evidence is showing an organic / brain cause for this). Psychopaths/ aanti-docisl/ aggressive types on the normal end of the spectrum may have narcissistic sensitivites, but aren't jumpy from loud car engines, repelled by mild odours, or drained by confrontation or excessive sunlight in the same way HSPs are. So I think the type of sensitivty is different, if psychopaths can be said to be sensitive at all :p. They're hardly romantics.

daveddd
03-13-16, 10:22 AM
i believe a HSP as a psychopath may fit hares secondary psychopath

https://books.google.com/books?id=DqnnCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA86&dq=robert+hare+secondary+psychopathy&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiA4az-7b3LAhXHeCYKHZAgAnwQ6AEIOzAF#v=onepage&q=robert%20hare%20secondary%20psychopathy&f=false

Donny997
03-13-16, 10:32 AM
I can agree with that. A kind of pseudo-psycho

daveddd
03-13-16, 10:39 AM
I can agree with that. A kind of pseudo-psycho

I'm disappointed in the link, i know there are much better, but i had a few too many last night and its the best i can do right now

Donny997
03-13-16, 10:45 AM
I'm disappointed in the link, i know there are much better, but i had a few too many last night and its the best i can do right now

Your Sunday morning science A-game is off 😅

SB_UK
03-14-16, 03:50 PM
ADHD highly sensitive
adhd callous highly insensitive

J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2013 Feb;52(2):163-171.e2. doi: 10.1016/j.jaac.2012.11.009.

RESULTS:
The ADHD-typical-prosocial group displayed atypically elevated parasympathetic reactivity (emotion dysregulation) during positive induction, along with increased sympathetic activity (elevated arousal) across conditions. In contrast, the ADHD-low-prosocial group displayed reduced parasympathetic reactivity and reduced sympathetic activity (low emotional arousal) across baseline and task conditions. Thus, both ADHD groups had altered patterns of autonomic functioning, but in two distinct forms.



Ever get the feeling that the parasympathetic nervous system and sympathetic nervous system relate to pH ?

Fast breathing anxiety (decrease pCO2, increase pO2) <- sympathetic NS
Slow breathing relaxation (increase pCO2, decrease pO2) <-parasympathetic NS

This idea places the body as an optimal aerobic respiration reaction vessel.

ADHD - 'too fast' -- Fast breathing anxiety (decrease pCO2, increase pO2) - alkaline
ADD-I - 'too slow' -- Slow breathing relaxation (increase pCO2, decrease pO2) - acidic

^^^ isn't quite right yet

Homeostatic
pH
Sensitivity