View Full Version : Fed/Fasted State Switch


SB_UK
04-08-16, 02:02 PM
CONTINUED FROM
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1800962&postcount=4

Important switch here

Complex II mitochondria - blocked - oxaloacetate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxaloacetic_acid)

Complex II mitochondria - activated - beta-hydroxybutyrate (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12975474)

SB_UK
04-08-16, 02:31 PM
I can't eat fruit [PAIN] apart from lemons (whole) [RELIEF].

SB_UK
04-08-16, 02:33 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxaloacetic_acid

Oxaloacetate forms in several ways in nature. A principal route is upon oxidation of L-malate.

oxaloacetate + acetyl CoA -> citrate

SB_UK
04-08-16, 02:39 PM
I can't eat fruit [PAIN] apart from lemons (whole) [RELIEF].

Sweet/Umami -> <- Sour/Bitter
More-ish (anabolic) -> <- Aversive (appetite suppressant*)

* -> Intermittent-fasting, Caloric restriction and the fasted state

SB_UK
04-08-16, 02:41 PM
http://www.anthimus.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/glycolysis-regulation.gif

G6P -
ATP -
Acetyl-CoA -
Citrate -

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/3-140803115610-phpapp02/95/glycolysis-with-animated-pathway-22-638.jpg?cb=1407067497

SB_UK
04-08-16, 03:22 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/oxaloacetic_acid

oxaloacetate forms in several ways in nature. A principal route is upon oxidation of l-malate.

Oxaloacetate + acetyl coa -> citrate

essential for citric acid cycle (so glycolysis, b-oxiadation of fat, acetoacetate usage in citric acid cycle)

SB_UK
04-08-16, 03:27 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose_1-phosphate
Aldolase B converts FRUCTOSE TO FRUCTOSE-1-PHOSPHATE it into glyceraldehyde (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyceraldehyde) and dihydroxyacetone phosphate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydroxyacetone_phosphate) (DHAP)

GLYCOLYSIS INTERMEDIATES
but bypassing ESSENTIAL checkpoints
GLUCOSE-6-PHOSPHATASE + FRUCTOSE 1,6 BISPHOSPHATASE
(SEE POST 5 ABOVE)

SB_UK
04-08-16, 03:29 PM
APPLE -> <- LEMON/LIME
FRUCTOSE -> <- NO FRUCTOSE
MALIC ACID -> <- CITRIC ACID (http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/11/jxb.ert035.full)
(http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/11/jxb.ert035.full)
SUPPORTS GLYCOLYSIS -> <- PREVENTS GLYCOLYSIS



(http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/11/jxb.ert035.full)A review of malate and citrate accumulation in fruit cells (http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/02/11/jxb.ert035.full)


Biochemistry textbook ... ... Need to come back to here ... ... (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xGjPFkrTFtEC&pg=PA946&lpg=PA946&dq=too+much+acetoacetate&source=bl&ots=C8A--jGsN9&sig=AGAd0xRQ5sgSE3bbcVV1gzry50E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO4e7M2__LAhXKWSwKHXb4DV8Q6AEIMzAE#v=on epage&q=too%20much%20acetoacetate&f=false)
... ... for the link between the key role of GAD in diseases of body (diabetes), brain (epilepsy) and mind (bipolar disorder).

SB_UK
04-10-16, 05:52 AM
Biochemistry textbook ... ... Need to come back to here ... ... (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xGjPFkrTFtEC&pg=PA946&lpg=PA946&dq=too+much+acetoacetate&source=bl&ots=C8A--jGsN9&sig=AGAd0xRQ5sgSE3bbcVV1gzry50E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO4e7M2__LAhXKWSwKHXb4DV8Q6AEIMzAE#v=on epage&q=too%20much%20acetoacetate&f=false)
... ... for the link between the key role of GAD in diseases of body (diabetes), brain (epilepsy) and mind (bipolar disorder).

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j132/sb_camsci/GAD%20deficiency.png

google books (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IcRqgPnstUUC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=stiff+man+syndrome+ketosis&source=bl&ots=sazlG0xyif&sig=GmuV6ZbG2r_eJuZCBhVCnG6G0_8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIuaC-44PMAhWBFxQKHYVdCN0Q6AEIKjAC#v=onepage&q&f=false)

mildadhd
04-10-16, 07:09 AM
I can not eat fruit either. I mean I can, but seems to makes my arthritis much worse





M

SB_UK
04-10-16, 11:19 AM
Stiff person syndrome runs completely in line with what I'm experiencing in ADHD.


Glutamate - MSG (parmesan cheese) - activates unbearable pain for me

SB_UK
04-10-16, 11:22 AM
The most obvious inherited characteristic which'd lead to a novel type would be generation after generation living in poverty and surviving.

Ability to deposit fat easily.
Ketosis-adapted ie low energy use adapted.
ADDers ?

SB_UK
04-10-16, 11:42 AM
So - using epilepsy as the model.

GARD diet for Epilepsy - No glutamate
Ketosis diet for Epilepsy - No carbs

-*-

All that's left is soluble fibre (onions) sauteed in fat (butter) served alongside soluble fibre (minced garlic) dissolved in fat (Extra virgin olive oil).
But not much.

'haute cuisine'


-- still not sure about long chain sat fat - will see ... ...

SB_UK
04-10-16, 11:58 AM
ADDers are the product of prolonged fasting state (food deprivation) evolutionary selection.

From 'carb' to 'fat' metabolism-adapted.

SB_UK
04-10-16, 02:54 PM
GARD diet for Epilepsy - No glutamate

No stimulants.

I think that we're extremely stimulant - averse (the Highly Sensitivie Person).
Excess stimulation results in 'stimulant' hormone + 'stimulant' neurotransmitter resistance syndromes.

We add dexedrine and it exerts a paradoxical effect.

Simply stimulant resistance.

-*-

So -

sensory - low sensory stimulation
homeostasis - low protein / low carb
emotional - the hsp really doesn't much want to be around other people

sensitive.

-*-

We've a problem as there's no mechanism for 'sensitives' to survive in this world.

SB_UK
04-10-16, 03:01 PM
We've a problem as there's no mechanism for 'sensitives' to survive in this world.

Only if we arrive at a world in which nobody need do anything.

Co-operative housing + food production.

Then - do as little or as much as your senitivities allow.

Sensory - sensitivity handled (you can walk away)
Homeostasis - sensitivity handled as no processed, carb rich, animal products - no high GI/no high umami foods
Emotional - nobody need have ANYTHING to do withe people again (which might be all that's required to teach people how to interact respectfully with others)

Low stress (See rat park) - low distress -> NO drug-seeking behaviour

No 'legal' stimulant pursuit
No stimulant nt/hormone resistance

-*-

So - all solved by ^^^
No other solution possible.

Absoute requirement - complete disintegration of what we laughingly call 'society' but which appears to be 'cheat and lie to thy neighbour for as much financial return as possible'.

SB_UK
04-11-16, 11:11 AM
-- still not sure about long chain sat fat - will see ... ...

Asthma attack with cream.


Fasted state
low GI veg + maybe some MUFA.

SB_UK
04-11-16, 03:11 PM
Asthma attack with cream.


Fasted state
low GI veg + maybe some MUFA.


MUFA (EVOO) also appears to trigger inflammation.

This doesn't make for pleasant reading.

I'm down to frozen zero gi vegetables. (cooked)

This is what I think

Stress epigenetically switches off growth - so growth foods trigger inappropriate inflammation.
This represents the inherited epigenetic mark which makes the common disorder appear genetic.

Just stress silencing (methylating) genome - such that the body becomes ever more sensitive to growth promoting foods.

Fasted state
low GI veg pretty much only

mildadhd
04-14-16, 08:25 AM
Asthma attack with cream.


Fasted state
low GI veg + maybe some MUFA.

I have not had much time to read up on the topics, because I have visitors visiting, but hopefully will have some time some time, because I can relate to some type of sensory, homeostatic, emotionally sensitive temperament you mentioned. In the movie cat in the hat. The cat refuses lactose because he says it gums up his system. If I eat dairy I do not have asthma attacks, but I feel like I am getting congested or something. One doctor guessed I might be missing an enzyme? Thoughts in regard to your posts? I am not sure?



J

SB_UK
04-15-16, 10:12 AM
I have not had much time to read up on the topics, because I have visitors visiting, but hopefully will have some time some time, because I can relate to some type of sensory, homeostatic, emotionally sensitive temperament you mentioned. In the movie cat in the hat. The cat refuses lactose because he says it gums up his system. If I eat dairy I do not have asthma attacks, but I feel like I am getting congested or something. One doctor guessed I might be missing an enzyme? Thoughts in regard to your posts? I am not sure?
J

Yes - exactly

asthma attacks on Coconut oil - LCFA rich
asthma attack + congestion - cream - LCFA rich
skimmed milk products - congestion

SB_UK
04-15-16, 10:13 AM
MUFA (EVOO) also appears to trigger inflammation.


Have to attempt this experiment again as I'd mixed the EVOO with tomato puree - which is very high in glutamic acid.

SB_UK
04-15-16, 11:41 AM
Ageing
1 The strong effect of age on DNA methylation levels has been known since the late 1960s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock
2 'there is an inverse relationship between CpG methylation and transcriptional activity'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylation

Reduced transcriptional activity - quiesce
Reduced mitosis.

Telomere maintenance.

-*-

Ageing requires us to adopt a non-growth promoting metabolic medium.

-*-

Ketone bodies produced in fasting - HDAC inhibitors

-*-

Epigenetics
1. Increased methylation with age - growth retardant
2. Histone deacetylase inhibition (BHB) - growth retardant

-*-

Growth -> Maintenance

Umami/Sweet -> low GI real food

Problem

Desire retained for eating as much umami/sweet as possible and not for as little of low Gi real food as possible.

Highest emergent property.
Mind.

Mind completion forces transition

Primitive man -> Proper man
(materialism) -> informational

What is mind ?
Agent for dictating morality

So -
Transition to wisdom (acquiring morality) changes reward system from
addictive -> sensory

where - taste preference changes.

addictive sweet/umami -> bitter/acid - ketosis

Build a mind which knows morality and you get to live.
Fail - and you'll eat yourself to a nasty premature death.

-*-

Core point.

Complete failure in the human life-cycle because human beings have failed to realise that the human mind is supoosed to be a thing which allows the individual to tell right from wrong.

The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is a perfect description - a word perfect description of what the mind is supposed to be.

A thing which knows what is right and what is wrong.

SB_UK
04-17-16, 10:48 AM
Just stress silencing (methylating) genome - such that the body becomes ever more sensitive to growth promoting foods.

So - stress throughout evolution apart from relatively recently where vicious immoral human beings have becoem our major problem -
has been food availability.

Across evolution efficient ways of survival in the relative absence of food have been essential.

Stress - if operational - operating to methylate the genome and thereby reduce transcriptional levels of genes - would pare back gene expression to a basal level - the conservation of energy which presumably 'd be operational from conception onwards.

All that we require is for these epialleles to persist - which has been shown to be possible - particularly at those loci which're though important in common complex disorder formation.

-*-

Fat is a much better energy source than the carbohydrate.

The general pattern should be of stress-mediated epigenetic CpG ISLAND methylation events slowing down the rate at which the cell operates ... ...

aha!!

EXCELLENT

http://www.whatisepigenetics.com/prenatal-maternal-stress-triggers-distinct-dna-methylation-signatures-in-ice-storm-babies/

Thirteen years after the women had been recruited, these scientists found that the DNA in T cells – a type of cell crucial to the immune system – displayed distinct methylation (http://www.whatisepigenetics.com/glossary/methylation/) patterns in 36 children whose mothers endured the Ice Storm while pregnant. This epigenetic signature influences whether or not certain genes are expressed. For the first time, it was found that maternal hardship could predict the amount of DNA methylation (http://www.epigentek.com/catalog/dna-methylation-c-75_21.html) in the babies’ T cells. It’s also the first time a study has showed that enduring changes to the babies’ epigenome occurs due to a mother’s objective exposure to stress and not the level of emotional distress she experiences. The researchers found that prenatal maternal objective hardship – for example, the amount of time a pregnant woman went without electricity, any injury she experienced as a result of the storm, the extent of damage that was done to her house – was correlated with DNA methylation levels in 1,675 CGs linked to 957 genes that are largely related to immune function. Specifically, they stated that “DNA methylation changes in SCG5 and LTA were both highly correlated with maternal objective stress” and that these methylation changes were comparable in cells such as T-cells, saliva cells, and peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs), which aim to help fight infection and adapt to intruders as part of the immune system.
The long term repercussions of the DNA methylation changes in these children are not entirely understood. However, the epigenetic signature which affects a group of genes related to sugar metabolism and immunity may put these teenagers at risk for developing health complications such as diabetes, obesity, or asthma. In June 2014, results from Project Ice Storm were reported in BioMed Research International and Psychiatry Research, demonstrating a connection between prenatal maternal stress (PNMS) and symptoms of asthma and autism, in these children.


Excellent -
stress results selection pressure which promotes the emergence of a 'type' which is aerobic (more efficient) metabolism adapted.

Fat not Carb/Protein.

Leptin vs Insulin

-*-

Peripheral Homeostasis sensitive

Prone to fat deposition.
Fat burning adapted.
ADDers.

Most likely to be seen (disease) in individuals who transfer from multi-generational poverty (India, West Indies, Africa) and enter the West - adopting Western eating profiles.

And this connects to the well-known strong correlation between

- the diabesity axis of disease and greatly increased within immigrants to the West from poverty.

SB_UK
04-17-16, 11:02 AM
So - optimized for the only real stress that we've seen throughout evolution - food availability.

However - the ADDer's more eficient energetic handling properties ae completely overwhelmed with the novel stress introduced by man.

Vicious competition of man against man - abuse of man by man - Nasty power seeking behaviour of man over man - Desire for man to exert power over other men ... ...

We're in a difficult situation of being optimized for a particular set of conditions - with another (a novel stress) entering the environment - completely disrupting our stimulation-averse (glucose elevation averse) biochemistry -

resulting in (the sensitive) in diseases of neuro- endocrinal- resistance syndromes.

SB_UK
04-17-16, 11:14 AM
And again ... ...
Mouse fathers under psychological stress were more likely to have offspring with high blood sugar compared to their unstressed counterparts. In a study appearing February 18 in Cell Metabolism, researchers link this difference to an epigenetic change in the stressed dad's sperm--a change that they could prevent by blocking the father's stress hormones. The study adds to growing evidence that a male's life experience can be passed down through more than his genetic code alone.
"We are very interested in how behavioral change affects glucose homeostasis," says co-senior author Xiaoying Li, an endocrinologist at the Shanghai Jiao Tong University School of Medicine and Rui-Jin Hospital. "Epidemiological studies have demonstrated the association of psychological stress with incident diabetes. We are curious about whether the effect can be passed down through generations."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-02/cp-smd021216.php

SB_UK
04-17-16, 11:17 AM
Full emphasis shifts onto the epigenome.

However we should not expect anything too complex from the epigenome.

All that we can look to it for (since it's responsible for genomic regulation or orchestration) is turning down the transcriptonal knob.

Reducing growth propensity of the cell.

Lower requirement for energy.

About the worst thing we could do is load up on insulin promoting factors of fast metabolized protein/high GI carb eg milk and cookies, the McDonalds burger, a cream cake

ie whey/beef + processed potato/starch.

SB_UK
04-17-16, 11:19 AM
Fasted switch - beta hydroxybutyrate (BHB) - as similar to valproic acid -

triggers - neural mitosis -> neural re-arrangement
(which in the presence of education)

represents the individual making the transition towards personal quality.

-*-

We're required to develop the mind towards an understanding of context, morality and the acquisition of personal quality.

Or systematizing, empathizing and sensory qualities - [respectively] - the three marks of what it is to be human.

SB_UK
04-17-16, 11:36 AM
All education broadly divides into

science [including IT, engineering]
social science [including psychology, bleugh economics, law]
art [including sport]

As long as morality is embraced

quality
->-
science -> sustainable tech improvements
social science -> positive human interactions
art -> uplifting

As long as immorality is embraced (our current society)

science -> weaponry, pointless data acquisition, speciality development to enhance wealth
social science -> a study of the unrelenting breakdown in society at every level
art -> from cheap and nasty popular music to expensive and nasty modern art
-<-
absence in quality

SB_UK
04-17-16, 12:05 PM
So what is ADHD ?

It's selection for the fasted state (ketone body metabolism through gut bacterial soluble fibre fermentation generated SCFAs) working hand-in-hand with liver generated ketone bodies.

MUFA+ low GI veggies.

The fasted state associated (under appropriate educational stimulus) (ie growth vs re-arrangement of neural assemblies) with the development of personal quality at the empathizing, systematizing and sensory levels.

These levels represent the entire breadth of subjects which're currently taught in the Western educational establishment.

Taught incorrectly - though - since for personal quality to be attained - there has to be free choice in following any educational scheme and not co-ercion.

This is only possible in a world without money.

Where local communities supply physiological essentials by co-operative working.

And then choose what they'd like (even if it's nothing) to do with the rest of their time.

mildadhd
04-18-16, 02:33 PM
So what is ADHD ?

It's selection for the fasted state (ketone body metabolism through gut bacterial soluble fibre fermentation generated SCFAs) working hand-in-hand with liver generated ketone bodies.

MUFA+ low GI veggies.

The fasted state associated (under appropriate educational stimulus) (ie growth vs re-arrangement of neural assemblies) with the development of personal quality at the empathizing, systematizing and sensory levels.

These levels represent the entire breadth of subjects which're currently taught in the Western educational establishment.

Taught incorrectly - though - since for personal quality to be attained - there has to be free choice in following any educational scheme and not co-ercion.

This is only possible in a world without money.

Where local communities supply physiological essentials by co-operative working.

And then choose what they'd like (even if it's nothing) to do with the rest of their time.


Is that ADHD?

Or a hypersensitive ADHD temperament?

Blood sugar levels are not the only treatment factors but..

Last week at work I was having a hard time concentrating and felt like I should start taking medication again. But I decided to try not eating my lunch, and later in the afternoon I felt better.

Thanks


mildadhd

br3akingchains
08-29-16, 07:20 PM
Yes - exactly

asthma attacks on Coconut oil - LCFA rich
asthma attack + congestion - cream - LCFA rich
skimmed milk products - congestion

This is all very interesting SB...I've stated before that I have bouts of clarity but it's always so hit or miss. The constant seems to always be fasting....maybe, lol.

I know I'm lactose intolerant, aside from gas and urgent need for a bathroom for forty minutes (or two hours) dairy also seems to make me sleepy, almost drugged. Even cheese that should be practically free of lactose has these effects.

Recently I tried an elimination diet and found out coconut oil is something else I must avoid. It makes me terribly groggy, as if I've been drugged, and I can't stop yawning..although I thought it was because of salycilates not LCFA...

I haven't been able to fast for more than a day but it usually takes two days to make me feel better. I started eating dairy ever since my discovery of lactase and have been wondering if that might be why I've been feeling pretty out of it lately...I drink my coffee in the morning with heavy cream!

What are GI vegetables?? What diet would you suggest? I can't eat just onions and garlic, lol