View Full Version : fish oil for ADHD


daveddd
04-17-16, 10:48 AM
been a lot of articles on fish oil , but now it looks like the big wigs are getting involved

nigg must have been reading lunacies posts;)


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4321799/ ---full article is cool with charts and junk


Clin Psychol Rev. 2014 Aug;34(6):496-505. doi: 10.1016/j.cpr.2014.05.005. Epub 2014 Jun 2.
Omega-3 fatty acid and ADHD: blood level analysis and meta-analytic extension of supplementation trials.
Hawkey E1, Nigg JT2.
Author information
Abstract
Interest in the value of omega-3 (n-3) fatty acid supplementation for treatment of ADHD remains high. No prior meta-analysis has examined whether ADHD is associated with alterations in blood lipid levels and meta-analyses of supplementation have reached conflicting conclusions.
METHODS:
We report two new meta-analyses. Study 1 examined blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids in relation to ADHD. Study 2 examined a larger sample of randomized intervention trials than previously reported.
RESULTS:
Study 1 included 9 studies (n=586) and found lower overall blood levels of n-3 in individuals with ADHD versus controls (g=0.42, 95% CI=0.26-0.59; p<.001). Study 2 included 16 studies (n=1408) and found that n-3 supplementation improved ADHD composite symptoms; using the best available rating and reporter (g=0.26, 95% CI=0.15-0.37; p<.001). Supplementation showed reliable effects on hyperactivity by parent and teacher report, but reliable effects for inattention only by parent report.
CONCLUSIONS:
Omega-3 levels are reduced in children with ADHD. Dietary supplementation appears to create modest improvements in symptoms. There is sufficient evidence to consider omega-3 fatty acids as a possible supplement to established therapies. However it remains unclear whether such intervention should be confined to children with below normal blood levels.
Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

SB_UK
04-27-16, 01:31 AM
If I were evolution I think I'd try and create a human being that needs as little as possible to be healthy.

Survival likelihood maximized under litttle - no food requirement.

I certainly wouldn't create an organism with the absolute requirment to eat fish oil, goji berries, linseed, berries, coconut oil, wheatgrass etc etc ... ... and so the list continues.

If we had to do all of that to be healthy (by design) - then I'd argue that we're not a very well made organism.

And we are a very well made organism despite our best attempts to corrupt ourselves with waste products as our primary staple.

Point being eliminate the waste (toxic oxidized omega-6 fat enriched) first.

The prevailing theory appears to relate to w3:w6 ratio.

See ADDF/Unmanagable for more.

Problems with omega-3.

Fatty fish concentrate human organic carcinogenic waste.
Linseed is no fun at all - made me sick when I tried them initially - has a well documented effect on drawing water out of your system.

I'd say that my take on omega-3 as a primary stategy for ADHD - usual nonsense that we expect from the p$eudo$cience $upplement $pon$or$.

Taking a good brisk walk helps with concentration too after all.

Is there someone on here suggesting it's used :-) ? Very strange ... ... ...

SB_UK
04-28-16, 10:21 PM
Beginning to get interesting :-)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352396416301438

nuts + greens + seeds w/o the rest of the junk we eat

The carb vs fat fight shifts from MUFA to SCFA+MUFA+PUFA (ratio) focus.

OK - DHA within context.

Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids are natural ligand for peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor γ (PPARγ).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26687697

That feeling of being played.

SB_UK
04-28-16, 10:36 PM
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352396416301438
Bgn and Fmod

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19422643
Bgn and Fmod


fructose -> <- dha [certain nuts, certain seeds, all greens]

Age-ing (the inflexibility) reversed.

cwf1986
05-06-16, 01:47 AM
If I were evolution I think I'd try and create a human being that needs as little as possible to be healthy.

Survival likelihood maximized under litttle - no food requirement.

I certainly wouldn't create an organism with the absolute requirment to eat fish oil, goji berries, linseed, berries, coconut oil, wheatgrass etc etc ... ... and so the list continues.

If we had to do all of that to be healthy (by design) - then I'd argue that we're not a very well made organism.

And we are a very well made organism despite our best attempts to corrupt ourselves with waste products as our primary staple.

Point being eliminate the waste (toxic oxidized omega-6 fat enriched) first.

The prevailing theory appears to relate to w3:w6 ratio.

See ADDF/Unmanagable for more.

Problems with omega-3.

Fatty fish concentrate human organic carcinogenic waste.
Linseed is no fun at all - made me sick when I tried them initially - has a well documented effect on drawing water out of your system.

I'd say that my take on omega-3 as a primary stategy for ADHD - usual nonsense that we expect from the p$eudo$cience $upplement $pon$or$.

Taking a good brisk walk helps with concentration too after all.

Is there someone on here suggesting it's used :-) ? Very strange ... ... ...

Regarding the first half of your post, evolution doesn't quite work like that. There really isn't any such thing as a perfect organism and all life forms are rife with characteristics that don't serve any beneficial purpose and may even be harmful towards the end of passing on genes. Like some snakes still have nubs as evolutionary left overs from their limbed ancestors. Us humans have the tailbone. Useless, but can be crippling if heavily damaged. Evolution is better defined as a process rather than a means to any particular end.

And we humans have this ability to manipulate our phenotypes with actions brought on by our relatively large capacity for creativity and cognition relative to other organisms including supplementation of concentrated nutrients. In one theory, if you go back far enough in our ancestry even before fire, those ancestors processed meat by tenderizing it with rocks. That's a big step in the external processing of food. I see concentrating and processing individual nutrients like vitamins and fish oil as another type of external processing of food. I wouldn't say it's nearly as significant, but it's something.

And there's a lot of range between what's enough to get by and what's optimal towards a particular goal that we chose including well-being and general health. And our ancestors fed themselves with imperfect foods for imperfect bodies. I don't imagine they could afford to be too picky.
We also have to keep in mind that many many people in this world would not survive prehistoric conditions because of genotypes that would not have worked in that environment. In this case, supplements may help to fill those voids and pharmaceutical compounds in more extreme cases for optimal well-being in modern society.

I'm totally with you on the second half of the post. But I also believe that supplementation can be immensely helpful to optimize what we're working with (our genes) and to optimize our roles in the artificial environments we create for ourselves.

I'll take myself as an example. I like lifting weights and putting on muscle. I supplement accordingly with concentrated nutrients and other compounds. Namely whey protein, creatine, fish oil, magnesium and zinc, and glucosamine. I don't need these supplements to be healthy relative to the average American my age. But they are necessary to achieve optimal results related to my goals.

Cliff Notes: Regarding diet and supplementation, it's not necessarily a matter of health vs unhealthy, it's a matter of worst, worse, bad, good, better, best.


Sorry if that was a little tangential. Here's something a bit more related to the OP. From WebMD:

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/vitamins-supplements-adhd

"The FDA has approved a prescription-strength omega-3 compound for ADHD . This compound is not technically a medication. It’s considered a “medical food.”

And the FDA is pretty conservative in what it approves for treatment for mental disorders the way I look at it. Pretty interesting.

My personal experience is only that it messes up with my stomach too much for any benefit to be noticeable. I'm thinking I'll look into a higher quality brand and see what happens.

SB_UK
05-06-16, 08:02 AM
Regarding the first half of your post, evolution doesn't quite work like that. There really isn't any such thing as a perfect organism and all life forms are rife with characteristics that don't serve any beneficial purpose and may even be harmful towards the end of passing on genes. Like some snakes still have nubs as evolutionary left overs from their limbed ancestors. Us humans have the tailbone. Useless, but can be crippling if heavily damaged. Evolution is better defined as a process rather than a means to any particular end.

And we humans have this ability to manipulate our phenotypes with actions brought on by our relatively large capacity for creativity and cognition relative to other organisms including supplementation of concentrated nutrients. In one theory, if you go back far enough in our ancestry even before fire, those ancestors processed meat by tenderizing it with rocks. That's a big step in the external processing of food. I see concentrating and processing individual nutrients like vitamins and fish oil as another type of external processing of food. I wouldn't say it's nearly as significant, but it's something.

And there's a lot of range between what's enough to get by and what's optimal towards a particular goal that we chose including well-being and general health. And our ancestors fed themselves with imperfect foods for imperfect bodies. I don't imagine they could afford to be too picky.
We also have to keep in mind that many many people in this world would not survive prehistoric conditions because of genotypes that would not have worked in that environment. In this case, supplements may help to fill those voids and pharmaceutical compounds in more extreme cases for optimal well-being in modern society.

I'm totally with you on the second half of the post. But I also believe that supplementation can be immensely helpful to optimize what we're working with (our genes) and to optimize our roles in the artificial environments we create for ourselves.

I'll take myself as an example. I like lifting weights and putting on muscle. I supplement accordingly with concentrated nutrients and other compounds. Namely whey protein, creatine, fish oil, magnesium and zinc, and glucosamine. I don't need these supplements to be healthy relative to the average American my age. But they are necessary to achieve optimal results related to my goals.

Cliff Notes: Regarding diet and supplementation, it's not necessarily a matter of health vs unhealthy, it's a matter of worst, worse, bad, good, better, best.


Sorry if that was a little tangential. Here's something a bit more related to the OP. From WebMD:

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/vitamins-supplements-adhd

"The FDA has approved a prescription-strength omega-3 compound for ADHD . This compound is not technically a medication. It’s considered a “medical food.”

And the FDA is pretty conservative in what it approves for treatment for mental disorders the way I look at it. Pretty interesting.

My personal experience is only that it messes up with my stomach too much for any benefit to be noticeable. I'm thinking I'll look into a higher quality brand and see what happens.

You've mentioned evolutionary legacies as the organism moves on.
The coccyx, appendix - crippling both - if injured.
However - that's the past.
I'm more looking at novel features which arise - and their nature - towards promoting survival.

The mind used appropriately should promote survival - we just haven't learnt to use it correctly.

-*-

We seem to live in a world in which we have to eat 'superfoods' - what if there was an optimal food source and the pattern were simply:
Eat little
Fast
Eat soluble fibre -- the gut microbiome is proving to hold the secrets to health.

-*-

Shuddered recently - saw a body building product called IGF-1
- of course mind jumping to cancer.
What if human beings are more (with evolutionary progression) designed to long distance aerobic and not short duration anaerobic ie the figure of a 10,000m runner not 100m runner.

-*-

Artificial environments and Supplements - what if we've introduced an artificial living pattern which can only be remedied by normalization.
Supplements appear like a good idea - but there's something inelegant about them.
About needing to take them.
Also issues - like the general confusion on optimal Vit D levels make me question RDAs.

-*-

I'm suggesting that there might be a healthy eating spectrum (the 3 point list above is the core revolving around raw veganism) and this leads on to the health exercising profile (endurance low impact) mentioned above.
Mechanical parts wear out.

-*-

Prepared to accept the benefits of omega-3 - if we remove omega-6 and fructose from the picture - ie the 2 classical junk foods.

-*-

I don't think human genotype/phenotype is anywhere near as important as microbiome profile.
And that can change conditional on probiotic/prebiotic load - all possible through something as simple as kim chi.

It's funny but the original authors on the maps which begun the hunt for human genotype/phenotype influence on disease (in Nature) 20 years or so later - shifted their influence onto the gut microbiome (in Nature also).

Lead author - Jean Weissenbach.


-*-

So my key points are that
- evolution's general motivation is increased survival efficiency
- that there is an ideal profile of eating habit (epidemiology)
- that no supplement need be taken (it's true that omega-3 is available outside of oily fish and flax within the raw vegan diet)
- that there may well be an ideal profile of exercise
- that the gut 'genome' is of greater importance to understanding disease than the human 'genome' where what we're finding is statistically significant clinically insignificant associations.

SB_UK
05-06-16, 10:13 AM
This kinda' idea
Dr. Robert Lustig ("Sugar the Bitter Truth" - youtube watch?v=dBnniua6-oM) was on the Livin'La Vida Lo-Carb show a few days ago and he stated there has been analysis on 50,000 year old human fecal matter that shows hunter gathers consumed 100 to 300 grams of fiber per day.

Fibre centric.

And if we don't feed the little guys within us (we're 10 x more bacterial than human) then we end up needing supplements without the elegance of internal control.

-*-

Commonly suppemented

The intestinal microbiota has the capacity to synthesize a variety of vitamins involved in myriad aspects of microbial and host metabolism, including cobalamin (vitamin B12), pyridoxal phosphate (active form of vitamin B6), a cofactor in a variety of enzymatic interconversions involved in amino acid metabolism, pantothenic acid (vitamin B5), niacin (vitamin B3), biotin, tetrahydrofolate (generated from dietary forms of folate) and vitamin K.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298082/

-*-

If I were evolution I'd get us 'down' to fibre alone - and let the lil guys do all the heavy lifting.

Sadly for children the world around :-0 eat your greens as there's nothing else on the table.

(luckily a little imagination with Balsamic vinegar, olive oil, herbs, Himalayan salt and lemon can transfer the over cooked British vegetable into something quite lovely)

namazu
05-06-16, 01:44 PM
Sorry if that was a little tangential. Here's something a bit more related to the OP. From WebMD:

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/guide/vitamins-supplements-adhd

"The FDA has approved a prescription-strength omega-3 compound for ADHD . This compound is not technically a medication. It’s considered a “medical food.”

And the FDA is pretty conservative in what it approves for treatment for mental disorders the way I look at it. Pretty interesting.
Just a point of information:

WebMD is incorrect here. The FDA does not regulate/review/approve "medical foods". (http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/ucm054048.htm) (They do certify facilities that produce medical foods, just to be sure that they're using good manufacturing processes, but that's very different from "approving the product".)

As far as I can tell, this claim was promoted by the company that sells these supplements, and it has been picked up from its press releases uncritically.

"Medical foods" are primarily intended for people with inborn errors of metabolism -- people who cannot break down certain compounds, often due to genetic disorders -- and who require special diets that can't be created easily from regular foods.

In my opinion, it seems that manufacturers are taking advantage of a loophole in the regulations to claim that their products are special (and to get away with claims about treatment of health conditions that they could not make if the product were sold as a "dietary supplement").

cwf1986
05-06-16, 05:12 PM
Evolution doesn't have a motivation. It's the process of how genes are continued through time. When you start using words like motivation for evolution it's sounds a lot like flirtation with philosophical treatise. But I'm going to try to remain objective and scientific.

There's a large variety in the macros and micros consumed by hunter gatherers. Some consume primarily tubers and wild vegetables while the Inuit diet consisted of almost entirely meat. Who's to say what's optimal based on what our ancestors ate thousands of years ago? Even in those very short thousands of years, people have developed adaptations for consuming grains, alcohol, and dairy. Some people do great with high grain diets and others will do terrible. Chinese people often do fantastic on diet with high amount of starchy rice. Speaking of Chinese, they do terrible with milk! Many Irish people can handle their liquor and and not suffer consequences and even receive benefits but Native Americans are far more prone to negative effects and addictions. An ideal eating profile is going to be in part individualistic based on a person's ancestry, environment, and psychology.

And supplementation is not a requirement. It's not even needed for relatively good general health and well-being. But it sure can help and it sure is convenient. Like take nootropics for instance. Caffeine and theanine can be incredibly helpful for calm clear headed energy and focus. Sure, you can drink green tea, but taking concentrated larger amounts can be much more helpful. Also keep in mind that many foods found in supermarkets are missing nutrients because of the mass production methods required to keep these types of foods affordable for the public. This is another area where supplements can fill the gaps for optimal function.

An ideal profile of exercise is going to again depend on the person. And the type of physical activity will vary from different hunter gatherers. In Africa, there's a group of people that will actually outrun a gazelle over a long distance. They also have a genotype to help with this and they partake in activities to develop the expression of their genotype. They're very slender and have the genes suited for a propensity of slow twitch fibers. On the other hand, you have the Somoans who more likely will have genes for fast twitch fibers. Their culture was a warrior culture and their lifestyle involved much physical labor. Those who were best at these traits had more wives and were much more likely to pass on those genes for muscularity. So who's doing the healthier sport? The long distance runners or sprinters? Who's getting injured more often? That answer will surprise people. Not necessarily related, but an interesting fact is that the sprinters while being much bigger also have a much lower bodyfat percentage. It might very well depend on one's physical genotype and psychology.

Many people seem to put aerobic exercise on a pedestal and granted there are some great benefits, but people seem to forget the benefits of anaerobic resistance exercise. These include greater bone density (very important for anyone and especially for the elderly considering the rate of deaths from falling), increased metabolic rate and improved nutrient portioning, and an improved hormonal profile. If using a moderate perceived rate of exertion and balanced program, resistance training will improve joint integrity. Granted, taken to extremes like any physical activity including various aerobic activities, the risks from it start to increase. And the line between the too can get pretty blurry too making an either/or statement presumptuous.

I'm totally with you on the role of pro-biota within the body for the study of disease. Granted, our knowledge in this field of study is very limited and it's difficult to know much of certainty at the moment including the significance of this field. But I'm very hopeful for advances and am paying attention to this one. I hope it'll be another piece of the puzzle that can help people. I just don't see enough evidence to declare as superior over other fields. I've learned from personal experience to refuse a script for antibiotics for something like a sinus infection. It isn't worth it. My stomach will feel messed up for weeks.

edit: I'll find something later that'll be more relevant to the OP. Hopefully something better than my last post haha!

SB_UK
05-20-16, 08:13 AM
what if there was an optimal food source and the pattern were simply:
Eat little
Fast
Eat soluble fibre -- the gut microbiome is proving to hold the secrets to health.

-*-

I'm suggesting that there might be a healthy eating spectrum (the 3 point list above is the core revolving around raw veganism) and this leads on to the health exercising profile (endurance low impact) mentioned above.
Mechanical parts wear out.


https://www.newscientist.com/article/2089094-gut-bacteria-influence-the-birth-of-new-brain-cells-in-mice/

Susanne Wolf at the Max-Delbrück Center for Molecular Medicine in Berlin, Germany, and her colleagues showed that it was possible to re-establish neurogenesis by giving antibiotic-treated mice a probiotic or making them exercise


soluble fibre
+
tabata protocol


both close to free from charge

Trantuete
05-24-16, 06:02 PM
I think there is evidence for a small effect of fish oil:

Omega-3 Fatty Acid Supplementation for the Treatment of Children with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Symptomatology: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625948/)

Nature ADHD Disease Primer (http://sebastiaandovis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Faraone-et-al-2015-ADHD.pdf)

But it may depend highly on what capsules you use (in terms of quality etc.). I'm going to try it soon.

Lunacie
05-24-16, 08:23 PM
I think there is evidence for a small effect of fish oil:

Omega-3 Fatty Acid Supplementation for the Treatment of Children with Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Symptomatology: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625948/)

Nature ADHD Disease Primer (http://sebastiaandovis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Faraone-et-al-2015-ADHD.pdf)

But it may depend highly on what capsules you use (in terms of quality etc.). I'm going to try it soon.

Fish oil has had a very large effect for me, pretty amazing actually.

Some people may find they need high dollar/quality, but I've always bought store brand and again, it's been amazing.

qanda
05-27-16, 04:28 AM
Fish oil helps my daughter stay on task with homework. She even read a 362 page book recently, which I don't think has ever happened before.

Pilgrim
05-27-16, 06:16 AM
Just my experience, years ago when I was a bit of a health nut I studied this closely. Yes there is supposed to be an equal ratio of 0m 3 and 6.

One for one.

I also had a lot of skin problems and this was my primary reason for taking it.

I took relatively high amounts, it helped my skin and seemed to give me some clearer thinking.

Go figure.

mildadhd
07-21-16, 09:17 PM
Fish oil has had a very large effect for me, pretty amazing actually.

Some people may find they need high dollar/quality, but I've always bought store brand and again, it's been amazing.

Is fish oil considered a treatment for people who have ADHD?



m

Lunacie
07-21-16, 09:49 PM
Is fish oil considered a treatment for people who have ADHD?



m

Some people have found it to be a very good treatment for ADHD. Not a lot, but enough to have merited several studies that also show good results for some.