View Full Version : How do you feel about vaccines?


sarahsweets
04-29-16, 08:41 AM
I put this here in this section with the hope that we could have a discussion about vaccines and what you think about them. Let me be clear:
I dont care if you feel you dont know enough about science to participate. I know I dont. In fact Ive felt intimidated in the past in any of the science sections because I felt like I could not participate or that the thread would be spammed by repeat, hard to understand posts that werent relevant.
All are welcome here. I would love to hear your thoughts, experiences etc actually, more than some of the science, but all is welcome here.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should anyone get downright nasty with anyone. No name calling or stuff like that. I fully expect this to get opinionated and I know people have strong opinions but you can talk about this without being mean to each other. Please, I really get tired of my threads getting moved to debates.

DO NOT invoke a single thing about the government, I dont care if you think the government is involved or not, or if you feel that a certain political group is involved or what your politics are. I dont care if you like the president, hate the president or voted for Big Bird- any talk about this stuff will get it shut down or moved.

Seriously, I really want to talk about this. Its good to have healthy and hearty discussions about this stuff.
Mods- if you need to move this to another section (but not debates pretty please) feel free to do so. I just thought the subject matter could be seen as philosophical.

My opinions-
I think they are very good over-all for the population. I know they save lives. I have been fortunate enough to have kids that never experienced any negative symptoms and in fact, after reading through the research on the hype over the HPV vaccine, I got all of my kids the shots. Even my son because HPV isnt a woman-only problem. My youngest has 1 or 2 more left in the series.
I got the kids their menengitis (sp) shots. Although the risks are fairly low, my husband works for Princeton U and that school is full of a lot of folks who dont believe in vaccines. In fact last year they had an outbreak of Menengitis and petitioned the government to allow them to offer a vaccine that was still in the clinical studies phase to prevent harm. My husband works all over the place there, dorms, offices, etc. God knows what he could bring home.

My kids have all of their vaccines.
Every year we get the flu shot.
No one has had any reactions, or gotten the flu in about 3 years.
Even my daughter who is immune compromised because of severe lyme's disease, was able to tolerate it.
In fact, if they had a lyme's vaccine I would get it in a heartbeat. All three of my kids have been treated for it and my oldest daughter has had three treatments and she has never quite bounced back.
They were very young when they got it, and the symptoms are so different in kids, no one believed me at first. Once the western blot was done there was no mistaking it.
If my oldest has a swollen tick on her, we have to wait out three weeks to see if lyme's rears its ugly head.

Maybe Im old fashioned but I am not sure if I would have gotten them the chicken pox vaccine. It didnt used to be mandatory. Maybe because I lived through it I dont look at it as severely as I should.

When my youngest was a little baby, her peds office had to inform patients from a certain date that an unvaccinnated child had exposed every child to whooping cough.
You cant imagine the anger and fear I felt.
The autism thing is a non issue. Its been studied a zillion times and the origional due who said vaccines caused autism had his license suspended and the Lancet retracted the article. Even Autism speaks says that vaccines do not cause autism.
I think its important to realize that causation does not equal correlation or is it the other way around? I always forget that.

What are your thoughts and experiences?
Pleas-please be nice.
We can disagree, strongly without violating the guidelines. I am sure the mods have better things to do than editing and deleting things from this thread.
I am pretty sure they arent itching to hand out warnings and infractions although thats a very real possibility if people dont slow their roll.

XXXOOO

Helloit'sme
04-29-16, 09:12 AM
Long story short. I have a daughter with autism. She is now 16. The symptoms appeared one day after her first MMR. BUT, she was at the age that symptoms of autism start to emerge. So, was it the vaccine or a coincidence? Did the vaccine expedite the symptoms that we going to appear anyway? The answer is that I have no idea. So much info out there. So much research trying to both prove and disprove. As everyone knows, it is a very controversial topic. Robert De Niro recently announced that he has a child with autism. He firmly believes it was the vaccine. There is a new movie out about the topic: VAXXED. I will certainly see it and probably be even more confused. For those of us personally affected, it is a heartbreaking issue.

BellaVita
04-29-16, 10:03 AM
Long story short. I have a daughter with autism. She is now 16. The symptoms appeared one day after her first MMR. BUT, she was at the age that symptoms of autism start to emerge. So, was it the vaccine or a coincidence? Did the vaccine expedite the symptoms that we going to appear anyway? The answer is that I have no idea. So much info out there. So much research trying to both prove and disprove. As everyone knows, it is a very controversial topic. Robert De Niro recently announced that he has a child with autism. He firmly believes it was the vaccine. There is a new movie out about the topic: VAXXED. I will certainly see it and probably be even more confused. For those of us personally affected, it is a heartbreaking issue.

Vaccines don't cause autism. That is a fact. It has been shown time and time again.

Andrew Wakefield was dishonest and lost his medical license.

Here is a helpful video that shows study after study showing that vaccines do not cause autism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65l1YAVaYc

I don't know if this helps but I have memories [of my feelings/semi-thoughts - when I was in the crib] before the age of 2 and based off those memories I know I thought the same as I do today. I was born autistic and have always been autistic.

It's not a heartbreaking issue, I'm sorry but autism isn't heartbreaking. That sounds as if autistics are a bad thing. Or a disease. We're not.

Thank you for listening.

Roundmouth
04-29-16, 10:53 AM
I find it somewhat strange that there are so many strong opinions against vaccines. Of course, sometimes it goes very wrong and people develope problems with narcolepsy, but over all... Even those who refuse vaccination take benefit from the rest of us. As long as the majority is protected, spreading of infections will be limited.

Pasteur didn't care at first, until he encountered a little girl dying from rabies. I think many of those enemies of science also would need to face some human suffering that scientific research may perhaps one day cure. I saw some TV program about a family where on of their twin sons had died from some painful genetic disease. Stem cells will in the future maybe be the key to a cure, so that their other son actually may live a normal and healthy life. Also, organs and whole limbs may perhaps some day be cultivated. But their are groups opposing stem cell research, some of them for religious reasons. They would probably not change their mind if they have a strong belief, but that confrontation might perhaps make others more aware and engaged.

Well, I'll take the risk going off topic... I'm actually more worried about the use of antibiotics. It's a great invention and it has saved millions of lives - let's hope it will keep saving lives in the future too. Many people seem to think that it's their right to get antibiotics as soon as they suspect an infection of any kind. However, bacteria will adapt and very soon no antibiotics will help, while the bacterias will become stronger than ever.

Socaljaxs
04-29-16, 11:26 AM
I feel like we've talked about this issue before in another thread. Not in detail like this but I do remember googling anti-vaccine reason due to conversations on this a month or so back... I just remember asking why there is this anti- vaccine movement to begin with. that is when I started to look at the anti-vaccine blogs. I will find the thread if it still exists to add this to the discussion. Since I think it's rather interesting the pro/anti vaccine reasoning.

Vaccines don't cause autism. That is a fact. It has been shown time and time again. this^^^ i think the blame/ scare tactics used are just ridiculous. There isn't proof of this cause nor is there a specific link or study that say all vaccines( which anything used in a debate utilizing "all" is usually easily disproven. Or even a specific vaccines that is blamed as the cause with science and proof to back it up. A person is born with autism. It is not something that is a side effect. Or something one can catch.

It's in my opinion a way to scare parents and/or allow blame. If someone has real scientific proof/ and studies that prove this to be true, please share..

ginniebean
04-29-16, 12:56 PM
I'm all for vaccinations.

Fuzzy12
04-29-16, 01:00 PM
It's strange for me but even till recently I was firmly in the pro vaccination camp. I remember there was a thread recently on vaccination and I posted very strongly in favour of it. Nothing has changed really and I'm still strongly for it but that thread made me think. I can imagine that at times it is a difficult issue e.g. for a parent to decide what is best.

My parents' first child started showing severe developmental delays after she received a vaccination that was highly recommended in those days before travelling to a tropical country. I don't know much about it because my parents rarely speak about her and she died soon after I was born. She was severely mentally and physically disabled. I do know though that a doctor was trying to get them and other parents who had a similar experience with this vaccine involved in a law suit and was trying to prove a link between the vaccine and their problems. I don't think they ever proved anything and my parents probably had too much on their hands to care about the lawsuit but that particular vaccine was pulled soon after.

I guess most vaccinations that are recommended these days are perfectly safe but that was what my parents had been told back then as well. Maybe they were just one of the few very unlucky ones who were affected (if it had anything to do with the vaccination at all). The thing is though that **** happens and science is not infallible. What is a fairly well established truth today might not be so tomorrow.

It's one of the things I love about science actually: that it doesn't claim to hold the absolute truth. It doesn't claim that it's omniscient or infallible. It's always examining, introspecting and correcting itself. That is why I believe in science. It doesn't claim to be all facts...or the truth. It's just the path to truth.

I always thought that if I had a child I would get all recommended vaccinations (my parents did for my brother and me ...in spite of their experiences and we've always been pictures of rosy health (at least physically) ). I'm pretty sure I'll do the same but then when I was offered the flu shot beginning of this year by my midwife I couldn't make up my mind what to do as my ln laws strongly advised again it. I took so much time that finally I was told that since it's not winter anymore I don't need it.

sarahsweets
04-29-16, 01:40 PM
Long story short. I have a daughter with autism. She is now 16. The symptoms appeared one day after her first MMR. BUT, she was at the age that symptoms of autism start to emerge. So, was it the vaccine or a coincidence? Did the vaccine expedite the symptoms that we going to appear anyway? The answer is that I have no idea. So much info out there.
I would think its coincidence, can autism symptoms come on so abruptly?
IME with my sister there were certain sensory issues and behaviors that were unusual and then at about age three it seemed like everything came to a halt.

Robert De Niro recently announced that he has a child with autism. He firmly believes it was the vaccine. There is a new movie out about the topic: VAXXED. I will certainly see it and probably be even more confused. For those of us personally affected, it is a heartbreaking issue.

I dont believe DeNiro said he believes the 2 are linked did he? Either way the film you mentioned which he was an executive producer of and was due to be shown at the Tribeca film festival (I think), was no shown. Once people got wind of the nature of the movie and the "scientist" involved (wakefield), even DeNiro retracted his stance on it. Most autism awareness groups do not believe in this. I know its being shown in select theatres which bugs me because its by no means a mainstream kind of film, at least as far as the concepts go. I guess I would understand people's stance on vaccination if they left the autism part out. Its been disproven to death and why any parent of an autistic child would want a doctor with bad research and who misrepresented himself and the studies behind his conjectures, to dictate what they do with their kids is beyond me. At least with other objections there are opportunities for discussion but when you try and discuss the specific links between autism and vaccines, and that there are none, its like some people shut down and refuse to hear anything more.

aeon
04-30-16, 12:22 AM
I am 100% pro-vaccination, and I think it is a violation of the social contract to not be vaccinated.


Be Well,
Ian

namazu
04-30-16, 01:12 AM
MODERATOR NOTE: Please note that the topic of this thread is vaccines.
[A side conversation about whether or not autism can or should be considered "heartbreaking" has been split to a separate thread here (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177111)so as not to derail this thread.]

stef
04-30-16, 03:04 AM
I'm pro vaccination and especially for things like whooping cough and measles;
i think its totally irresponsible to risk starting an epidemic of something that has been practically eradicated.

midnightstar
04-30-16, 05:02 AM
I think that vaccines should continue to be given to every child because that way it'll protect children from viruses that could cause them serious harm or even kill them :grouphug:

BellaVita
04-30-16, 05:15 AM
I am 100% for every vaccine.

Helloit'sme
04-30-16, 09:01 AM
Vaccines don't cause autism. That is a fact. It has been shown time and time again.

Andrew Wakefield was dishonest and lost his medical license.

Here is a helpful video that shows study after study showing that vaccines do not cause autism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o65l1YAVaYc

I don't know if this helps but I have memories [of my feelings/semi-thoughts - when I was in the crib] before the age of 2 and based off those memories I know I thought the same as I do today. I was born autistic and have always been autistic.

It's not a heartbreaking issue, I'm sorry but autism isn't heartbreaking. That sounds as if autistics are a bad thing. Or a disease. We're not.

Thank you for listening.

I should have elaborated. It is heartbreaking if the person with autism is so severely impacted that they cannot function nor find joy in life. No one knows what is going on in the mind of a very low functioning individual with autism because they cannot articulate it, but I know several teens who are always frightened, crying and very confused. They don't seem to have any peace. They are still in diapers, cannot dress or feed themselves and have no speech. They have not been able to learn to use communication devices. That must be an awful place to be. I hope this passes as they mature so that they can enjoy life.

Helloit'sme
04-30-16, 09:27 AM
I would think its coincidence, can autism symptoms come on so abruptly?
IME with my sister there were certain sensory issues and behaviors that were unusual and then at about age three it seemed like everything came to a halt.



I dont believe DeNiro said he believes the 2 are linked did he? Either way the film you mentioned which he was an executive producer of and was due to be shown at the Tribeca film festival (I think), was no shown. Once people got wind of the nature of the movie and the "scientist" involved (wakefield), even DeNiro retracted his stance on it. Most autism awareness groups do not believe in this. I know its being shown in select theatres which bugs me because its by no means a mainstream kind of film, at least as far as the concepts go. I guess I would understand people's stance on vaccination if they left the autism part out. Its been disproven to death and why any parent of an autistic child would want a doctor with bad research and who misrepresented himself and the studies behind his conjectures, to dictate what they do with their kids is beyond me. At least with other objections there are opportunities for discussion but when you try and discuss the specific links between autism and vaccines, and that there are none, its like some people shut down and refuse to hear anything more.

I stand corrected. He stated that his son changed overnight after receiving the MMR vaccine. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3537962/Let-s-truth-Robert-Niro-says-autistic-son-changed-overnight-MMR-jab-insists-isn-t-anti-vaccine-just-pro-safe-vaccines.html

Laserbeak
04-30-16, 05:40 PM
Vaccines are one of the great accomplishments/discoveries of mankind.

SB_UK
05-02-16, 02:44 PM
Prevention of the environments which causes pathogens to flourish is so much better than prevention by lesser methods.

Natural food, cleanliness, effective waste management - immersing ourself within the ecosystem - not seeking to destroy.

seemingly
05-02-16, 03:12 PM
Long story short. I have a daughter with autism. She is now 16. The symptoms appeared one day after her first MMR. BUT, she was at the age that symptoms of autism start to emerge. So, was it the vaccine or a coincidence? Did the vaccine expedite the symptoms that we going to appear anyway? The answer is that I have no idea. So much info out there. So much research trying to both prove and disprove. As everyone knows, it is a very controversial topic. Robert De Niro recently announced that he has a child with autism. He firmly believes it was the vaccine. There is a new movie out about the topic: VAXXED. I will certainly see it and probably be even more confused. For those of us personally affected, it is a heartbreaking issue.

What else did your daughter do that day that "coincided" with onset of autism? Drink milk? bump her head? Wear a pink dress?

Association is not causation.

Hathor
05-02-16, 09:38 PM
Perhaps Vax do not cause autism but can trigger symptoms.

I stopped talking and stared walking on my toes after childhood vaccinations.

sarahsweets
05-03-16, 04:28 AM
Perhaps Vax do not cause autism but can trigger symptoms.

I stopped talking and stared walking on my toes after childhood vaccinations.

when you say trigger symptoms, what do you mean?

BellaVita
05-03-16, 10:54 AM
I wonder if people just "know" to look for autism symptoms after they vaccinate their kids due to the Andrew Wakefield thing from years ago and the popularity of the myth, so all the sudden they think their child is autistic when really they had been showing symptoms all along.

Fuzzy12
05-03-16, 11:17 AM
I wonder if people just "know" to look for autism symptoms after they vaccinate their kids due to the Andrew Wakefield thing from years ago and the popularity of the myth, so all the sudden they think their child is autistic when really they had been showing symptoms all along.

Possible. That makes a lot of sense. Or when they recognise symptoms of autism they might then remember that their kid has had a vaccination recently (don't kids at that age have them fairly frequently?) and link it with that.

Hathor
05-03-16, 11:48 AM
when you say trigger symptoms, what do you mean?

Perhaps allergy is a good analogy.

Vax could trigger negative effects in autistics in a way related to Those with allergies.

OTO hand I don't even really know what allegory means.

TygerSan
05-03-16, 07:09 PM
Perhaps Vax do not cause autism but can trigger symptoms.

I stopped talking and stared walking on my toes after childhood vaccinations.

I am pro-vaccination and a scientist to boot. For the vast majority of folks, vaccines are safe and effective.

However, sometimes I think that the experiences of those who have truly had adverse reactions to vaccines are kind of shoved off to one side in the zealous defense of vaccination. For every hundred or so people who find a spurious correlation between discovery of developmental delays and time of vaccination, let's not forget that there *are* people who have bad reactions to vaccines, from febrile seizures to more severe reactions. Some of those may even have metabolic disorders that present, in part, with autistic symptoms.

Little Nut
05-03-16, 11:14 PM
I think of vaccines in the macro sense. i.e. how they impact the community as a whole and not what bad effects they may have for a single individual. So I support the process that rid us of polio (pretty much), smallpox, measles, tetanus, mumps, rubella...

I also think it is wrong to avoid the side effect risks on the back of those that accept that risk. IOW it is OK for me not to be vaccinated only because most everyone else is vaccinated.

Sarah, I didn't think chicken pox was a big deal either until I got shingles a cupla years ago. IMNVHO SHINGLES REALLY SUX.

Twiggy
05-04-16, 01:09 AM
I am anti-vaccines.

I haven't been vaccinated for flu or any other vaccine since elementary school.

Somehow, I am physically healthy and don't get too sick when the flu comes around.

That is my personal opinion and I don't want to be attacked for it.
Thank you.

BellaVita
05-04-16, 01:16 AM
I am anti-vaccines.

I haven't been vaccinated for flu or any other vaccine since elementary school.

Somehow, I am physically healthy and don't get too sick when the flu comes around.

That is my personal opinion and I don't want to be attacked for it.
Thank you.

No attacking, don't worry. :)

I wonder if the vaccines you got as a child helped you to not get any serious conditions, it's also a good thing there is such thing as herd immunity.

Glad to hear you are physically healthy.

Hathor
05-04-16, 06:49 AM
I'm not anti vax but just a bit paranoid

Little Nut
05-04-16, 12:05 PM
Twiggy, just a question. No right or wrong answer, just curious personally.

If no one was vaccinated for let's say smallpox or maybe polio and the virus was just as prevalent as it was 100 years ago, would you want to be vaccinated against it? TIA, -LN

allesandro1
12-11-17, 10:21 PM
Well, I am very ambivalent about them. I receive them because I am diabetic and have issues with immunosuppression. However, I saw an interview with Senator Robert Kennedy Jr. once who claimed to have done a great deal of research on the subject and said that the mercury-based neurotoxin used as a preservative can have a significant impact on the brain and cognitive functioning and that this may be the reason for an increase in the number of autism spectrum disorders. I don't know, but I've always wondered if this could be one of the causes of ADD. Not that everyone who has been vaccinated gets ADD, but a general rule of medicine is that 'anything can do anything to anybody.' Who knows how the introduction of a neurotoxin might affect someone

Lunacie
12-11-17, 10:41 PM
Well, I am very ambivalent about them. I receive them because I am diabetic and have issues with immunosuppression. However, I saw an interview with Senator Robert Kennedy Jr. once who claimed to have done a great deal of research on the subject and said that the mercury-based neurotoxin used as a preservative can have a significant impact on the brain and cognitive functioning and that this may be the reason for an increase in the number of autism spectrum disorders. I don't know, but I've always wondered if this could be one of the causes of ADD. Not that everyone who has been vaccinated gets ADD, but a general rule of medicine is that 'anything can do anything to anybody.' Who knows how the introduction of a neurotoxin might affect someone



Thimerosal (mercury) was taken out of childhood vaccines in the United States in 2001.

Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines do not and never did contain thimerosal. Varicella (chickenpox), inactivated polio (IPV), and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines have also never contained thimerosal.

Influenza (flu) vaccines are currently available in both thimerosal-containing (for multi-dose vaccine vials) and thimerosal-free versions.


And yet, the number of people (children and adults) continues to climb.
That is probably because knowledge of the condition has spread.

However, mercury is still present in other sources including dental amalgams
(silver fillings), food especially some types of fish, and air pollution from coal-
fired power plants and wildfires. So it's silly for anyone to blame vaccines for
mercury poisoning.