View Full Version : Losing effectiveness each day


spunky84
05-17-16, 11:45 AM
I only just started Vyvanse last Friday, so I'm only on day 5. I was only diagnosed last Thursday, so this is all still really new. I'm also taking it for binge eating (I'm actually bulimic, but the purging started because I couldn't control the binge eating, and that seemed to be the best thing to do).

My first day (Friday) I felt pretty flighty and couldn't eat. From what I've read, it's not that unusual in the beginning. It also lasted quite awhile. I honestly am not even sure how long it lasted (but seemed to be over 12 hours)

Saturday: Lost the flightiness (no euphoria - which I'm happy about! That's not what I'm looking for or wanting, just for clarification), but it was great at controlling symptoms. However, it wore off after 9 hours.

Sunday: It was still great at controlling symptoms, but seemed a little less than Saturday. It wore off after 7.5-8 hours.

Monday - Today: Each day seemed to control symptoms less and less. Wearing off around between 6-8 hours.


I don't know if this is normal within the first week. I was started on 30 mg, which I understand is a pretty low dose from everything I've been reading. As long as I'm tolerating it (not euphoric, having panic attacks, unable to eat, etc), I was told to go up to 60 mg after a week which will be this Friday.

I'm hoping that the 60 mg will help control the symptoms better than it currently is doing, but I feel like it may end up being the same thing with it controlling symptoms less and less each day.

My next appointment is June 2. My new semester starts next Monday, so I'm a little worried about titration and coping with school and getting through. It's a short semester (10 weeks for 3 classes and 6 weeks for 1 class), so I absolutely cannot afford to fail behind as time management is usually why most students fail out of this semester in the program.

Even if it's controlling the symptoms though, 6-8 hours coverage isn't going to cut it. I'll have to take it relatively early 5-6 am as classes start between 7 - 8:30, and I'll be in classes until 3:30 - 5:00 (depending on the day) M - F. I still have to be able to study in the evenings. This worries me especially for my clinical rotations. I got by on clinical before with obscene amounts of caffeine to give me enough focus (but my clinical days were also a little shorter and it just got me by and would crash hard afterwards). I have 10 hour clinical days this semester, and I cannot compromise patient care. I pretty much just got by last semester. I'm not sure how I even got through.

My psychiatrist said he could still up the dose a little more if it's needed.

I've read about how diet can have an affect on the effectiveness of Vyvanse. Are there any foods in particular that are better in helping or is it trial and error? I do take it on an empty stomach. Also, with having the eating disorder, my metabolism is absolutely shot. I just started therapy for the eating disorder, and I really feel like I have to re-learn how to eat like a normal person (without triggering binging and purging which I plan on working on in therapy).

Vyvanse was chosen since he felt that it could help with the binging (which then should stop the purging). It was really great in helping me not binge for the first few days, and today I'm really struggling not to.

For all I know, this is all completely normal. I've only had one appointment with my psychiatrist, so I'm really hesitant to call in as I don't want to seem like I'm pushing for drugs (which is the reason I put off getting assessed for so long). I'm not sure what warrants a call and what doesn't.

I'm sorry this is so long, but I just really feel like I need some guidance.

caretothepeople
05-18-16, 09:55 AM
Revisit the medication discussion with your psychiatrist. Track your symptoms and writer down your thoughts and concerns re: your ED recovery and the medication. That's the best way to figure out what your options are and what the best path forward for you is.

C15H25N3O
05-19-16, 01:47 AM
30mg is not a low dose. Forget what you are reading. Some doses i read here are a sign for heavy addiction. You must find your personal dose meaning the minimum you need not the maximum you can handle.

First intakes of amphetamin can make euphoric but the regular effect is it makes you lazy in motion, calms you down and gives you concentration.

Just listen to your body what he wants you to feed him. I tried diets on Vyvanse without any effect. So i dont eat breakfast, no lunch and prefer to eat in the evening. Most people will see it different. Vyvanse is different to Dexamphetamin which can confuse you stomach for 30 minutes earlier effects. Vyvanse works from intestinal absorbtion. Food gives power but also takes a lot of energy making your intestine work. i believe there is a better intestinal absorbing of Vyvanse without eating.

I boost Vyvanse with coffee. I drink much more coffee than before and also more water although it does not make a dry mouth.

I think its crazy to take 200% but its good to know what is too much. This is difficult on Vyvanse cause the best effect is very subtle and if you feel it it is tooooooo much.

If you are not sure about the dosage take some days off.

QuasarMind
05-20-16, 01:15 AM
I must warn you on Caffeine. I found drinking one 20oz Red Bull on Vyvanse is about the same as drinking 8 20oz Red Bull's off Vyvanse. You should avoid anything with a high caffeine content.

There are plenty of people who do great on Vyvanse, sometimes even better than Adderall, but I found Dex and Vyvanse to not "hit the spot" like Adderall does. I think there is something in my brain lacking that the levoamphetamine fixes that dextroamphetamine doesn't. For me the Adderall helps lock in my memory better than Vyvanse.

I suggest you forget what the prior responder said about 30mg not being a low dose and others "a sign for heavy addiction". His brain might not have the neurotransmitter deficits the rest of us have, but for me I wouldn't be able to distinguish a 30mg Vyvanse from a M&M candy piece. I find even 70mg Vyvanse to be fairly weak, however, I find the MFG recommended dose of 30mg Adderall to be the perfect dose. When I took Adderall, I frequently wouldn't take it on weekends unless I had something important to do which supports in the 3 years in a row I took Adderall I never even got close to being "addicted" or otherwise "habit forming". Now that I am older, I think my inattentive ADD is worse than in my younger years so now only taking it on work-days is not an option. I have a hypothesis that ADHD people are more sensitive to stimulant ADD meds than inattentive ADD people but its just a self-theory an openly known fact.

I found Vyvanse to work best when fasting in the morning and for at least 3 hours after dosing. I take 70mg Vyvanse now but I want to switch to 20/10mg split dose daily Adderall since I know that works better for me.

FYI I find 70mg Vyvanse to be leaps and bounds less addictive than Red Bull -> now that Red Bull stuff is addictive, however I can say from personal experience it does give you wings and I never have been able to resist anything with wings :-) I now consume less than 1 Red Bull per month.

spunky84
05-20-16, 10:17 AM
Thanks QuasarMind! Very helpful! :)

I am hesitant to have caffeine on top of it especially if we're still working on titration (unless my doctor okays it if it were to help). I've been pretty much only getting by on caffeine prior to this. I've always wondered why I had such a tolerance for caffeine that nobody else around me seemed to have. I have espresso shots called Stok that I take pretty much straight (40 mg each - I've been taking between 4 - 6 daily; more on some days depending on the need). Most people that I know (and have been told this) were jittery and practically crawling out of their skin with just one. I would have to probably do well over 10 at once to get to that point.

I would love to not have to take mine daily (it's prescribed for daily), but between it hopefully helping with the binge eating and school, I don't think I'd be able to not. With school, especially this upcoming semester, I can't afford not to. Especially the program I'm in, I can't just cruise through it. I really have to know and understand the information (medical).

My doctor did say he can still go up if I need it. I just started 60 today, and I feel relief that it's controlling symptoms (the 30 hasn't at all over the last 2 days). I could tell a huge difference. When it seems to be working, I can think clearly, focus, etc. Once it wears off, it feels like a fog. I really hope the 60 is the right dose - I feel like (even though it's only been a week) it's very hard to get through the titration period.


If the dose is right, should it always be like that (the clarity)? I was discussing it with my therapist the other day and she said it was simply because I have to change my behaviors with it as well, and that I probably already built up a tolerance to it. It didn't seem to make much sense. I'm aware that it's still up to me to make the decision to do things, but I would still think that there'd be the ability to focus rather than that fog. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it'd be unlikely to build a tolerance within only 5 days. I can even tell a difference in my moods / emotions. I'm able to articulate what I'm thinking / feeling. I get less frustrated and angry. And even when I'm upset (legitimately), I don't escalate and can process things and react appropriately. Without I'm kind of a mess in regards to my emotions / moods. I get frustrated and angry very easily. I can't articulate what I'm thinking / feeling. I can't even identify, really, what I'm feeling which just makes it worse. I truly don't know why my husband is still with me. If anyone knew what I was like during those times, they'd be telling him to run because it's really that bad, so to not get that out of control is a really big deal (which I feel like is truly controlled by the meds).

When the Vyvanse seemed to be controlling symptoms over the weekend, I was actually pleasant. I was able to do things I couldn't before (ie articulate to my husband why something he said upset me calmly and rationally, and then be able to move on without it ruining the day). My husband even said he prefers the drugged up me to the non drugged up me because was actually normal. On Wednesday it was like I didn't even take it the Vyvanse, and I was just completely out of control (and then all of the feelings of guilt, shame, and self hatred that accompany it after I finally calm down).


I'm still keeping track of symptoms and whatnot so I can take it to my next appointment so that it'll hopefully help. I just hope that this dose at least controls my symptoms some, even if minimally, until my next appointment rather than it not at all like it did with the 30. I'm hoping this medication works. I can't imagine how anyone gets through trying to find the right med and dose.

sarahsweets
05-20-16, 02:15 PM
No offense but some of this is crummy advice.

30mg is not a low dose. Forget what you are reading. Some doses i read here are a sign for heavy addiction. You must find your personal dose meaning the minimum you need not the maximum you can handle.
Higher doses do not mean greater chance of addiction. of course the least amount is best but dont scare people by bringing up addiction. I take 50mg of dex a day.

First intakes of amphetamin can make euphoric but the regular effect is it makes you lazy in motion, calms you down and gives you concentration.

I have never felt lazy or lazy in motion on medication.

Just listen to your body what he wants you to feed him. I tried diets on Vyvanse without any effect. So i dont eat breakfast, no lunch and prefer to eat in the evening. Most people will see it different. Vyvanse is different to Dexamphetamin which can confuse you stomach for 30 minutes earlier effects. Vyvanse works from intestinal absorbtion. Food gives power but also takes a lot of energy making your intestine work. i believe there is a better intestinal absorbing of Vyvanse without eating.

Some people say not to eat when you take your vyvanse and some say do. But NOT eating ALL day is bad advice and never healthy.

I boost Vyvanse with coffee. I drink much more coffee than before and also more water although it does not make a dry mouth.

I would be more concerned with your caffeine intake then how much someone's dose of vyvanse is.


If you are not sure about the dosage take some days off.
Again, theory with no known science to back it up. ADHD is an everyday, life impairing disorder that deserves, and should receive, adequate consistent daily treatment.

C15H25N3O
05-21-16, 06:13 PM
Quasar,

i am dxed as heavy ADHD and i have also positive effects on cannabis in medical meaning.

If you drink RedBull you dont drink natural caffeine from coffee beans. You drink chemical crap maybe made from acetone or other solvents. RedBull is also completely overdosed with chemical caffeine and might help if you are out of meds.

I suggest you forget what the prior responder said about 30mg not being a low dose and others "a sign for heavy addiction". His brain might not ...

I was reading some people take 210mg and more. Sorry, this is no more normal. No one needs to smoke a full hand of weed to get stoned or to eat a whole cattle to absorb enough proteine. Maybe it is a sign for heavy tolerance due to damaging natural dopamine production over the years of wrong amp-doses or possibly bad controlled intake or not therapeutical rising the dosage.

I found Vyvanse to work best when fasting in the morning and for at least 3 hours after dosing.

Same for me but there is a "positive side effect" due to intestinal absorbance which can last into the next day.

FYI I find 70mg Vyvanse to be leaps and bounds less addictive than Red Bull -> now that Red Bull stuff is addictive, however I can say from personal experience it does give you wings and I never have been able to resist anything with wings :-) I now consume less than 1 Red Bull per month.[/QUOTE]

I have a hypothesis that ADHD people are more sensitive to stimulant ADD meds than inattentive ADD people but its just a self-theory an openly known fact.

I think you are right with your hypothesis. "Facts" come from statistics and "facts" will change from time to time. Science is not perfect. Humans discovered space but the brain is nearly undiscovered.

If a physician/doctor/scientist is not himself an ADHD he will never produce correct facts as he relays on statistics which can be read in different ways. Everything is possible and depends on ... :-)

A good ADHD-physician should not have any parts of co-existing Asperger and must have the recognizing abilities of an ADHD.

spunky84
06-04-16, 04:48 PM
I was told to up my dose from 30 to 60 a week after starting the 30. The 60 has been so much better. Still inconsistent, but I've been able to identify what seems to help it be a little more consistent. I really only had a couple of days were it didn't seem to control the symptoms as much, but those days I also got very little sleep.

The days that I do end up getting very little sleep, I did end up having a little caffeine, and that seemed to help. I wasn't a fan of having caffeine with it, but it does seem to help on those days (and the amount of caffeine is less than what I was doing before starting Vyvanse - 80 only once in the morning - and only on the days I slept very little (like only 3 hrs) - compared to 200 at once and then a little more during the day every day).

I was just recently prescribed 70, but because I just filled the 60, I'm not risking trying to fill the 70 and risk having issues because of it. Since I had just filled the 60, I asked about him prescribing a 10 (more practical and I'd assume safer practice with it being a controlled substance - he's having me go back in 4-6 weeks) to supplement the 60. I'm guessing he was less than thrilled at my suggestion since he lied and told me that it doesn't come in 10 even though I know better.

So I'm still taking the 60 for another couple of weeks until it'd be less concerning to fill the 70.

C15H25N3O
06-04-16, 08:46 PM
No offense but some of this is crummy advice. :eek:

I dont think so, not crummy! :scratch: You did not like Vyvanse and you did not give it a chance, right? :eyebrow:
Saying "no offense" but partial offending, hmmmmm, not the right way. ;-)

Spunky84 is a binge eater actually bulimic and Vyvanse is a heavy drug for binge eating and an even better
med for binge eating in combination with ADHD. I did also some binge eating before Vyvanse. ^^

I did not give any advice but an idea for a try as I wrote how I handle Vyvanse and eating with success.
The idea is not a no-more-eating-diet-advice but to listen to the body before eating or listening to the
body if it needs food. Just imagine being a binge eater and thinking about what to eat some hours later
or looking forward to eating instead of going to the fridge and eating until you have a overstretched stomach.

General opinions are no solution for ADHD. It is so different. Sure I treat my ADHD also with some
self-medication meaning trying to find reactivating my self-compensation-strategies from before my diagnose.
Everyones personal strategies are not only part of everyones personalities but they are everyones personal nature!

Sarah, you dont have to concern of my caffeine intake as I dont concern your Dex but are you on 50mg
since the first month of your diagnosis or was it increased over the years?

I dont take caffeine pills. I drink healthy natural espresso/cappuccino and love eating natural cacao beans.
You should concern RedBull drinkers. Every can of 250ml RedBull contains 25g of industrial white sugar.
Ouch, thats real poison! One espresso contains 80mg of caffeine. If your weight is 60 kg you must drink 6 gallons
of espresso to have a lethal dose. http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/SCOGS/ucm256650.htm

Is that enough scientific evidence?

Caffeine is a natural stimulant. Fresh cooked coffee or tea is definately healthier than most pharmaceutical
medications but not enough for an ADHD! Once again: Listen to your body, brain and mood. The internet only
contains opinions and no solutions! If you dont like something on AMP – just stop it maybe think about it why
you dont like it on AMP! Thats exactly the problem with binge eating – eating without listening to the body.
And bulimia is "kind of listening to the body" after it (eating) is done!

Vyvanse helps a lot at binge eating and is much better for binge eaters than any other AMP product!
Vyvanse and its positive effects are worth to work hard on the specific dosage adjustment!
Dexedrine and adderall force you to eat and that is no good idea for a binge eater.

I love my ADHD although it is an disorder due to it gives me special abilities not everyone has. For me it is a
balancing act between AMP and my heavy ADHD. I work hard on it!

:giggle:

QuasarMind
06-05-16, 06:23 PM
I have found the "natural" caffeine to be like driving on a "natural" dirt road while Adderall/Vyvanse is like driving on an "artificial" paved highway, so the "natural" caffeine is one substance I defiantly find inferior in comparison to the "artificial" amphetamine ADD medications. "Natural" is not always better.

sarahsweets
06-06-16, 04:30 AM
:eek:

I dont think so, not crummy! :scratch: You did not like Vyvanse and you did not give it a chance, right? :eyebrow:
Saying "no offense" but partial offending, hmmmmm, not the right way. ;-)

The crummy advice part was in reference to the idea of addiction, not your whole post.

Spunky84 is a binge eater actually bulimic and Vyvanse is a heavy drug for binge eating and an even better
med for binge eating in combination with ADHD. I did also some binge eating before Vyvanse. ^^

I did not give any advice but an idea for a try as I wrote how I handle Vyvanse and eating with success.
The idea is not a no-more-eating-diet-advice but to listen to the body before eating or listening to the
body if it needs food. Just imagine being a binge eater and thinking about what to eat some hours later
or looking forward to eating instead of going to the fridge and eating until you have a overstretched stomach.

Actually I can imagine what it would be like to have an eating disorder. I used to be bulimic in high school and also have binge eating issues. Intensive out patient therapy and gastric bypass really helped me with that.


Sarah, you dont have to concern of my caffeine intake as I dont concern your Dex but are you on 50mg
since the first month of your diagnosis or was it increased over the years?

I actually just switched back to adderall but it went like this... Dex for 7 years, a total of then 60mg. Adderall for 3 years- total of 60mg. Dex again for 6 months at 50mg, and now back to adderall at 60mg total.

I dont take caffeine pills. I drink healthy natural espresso/cappuccino and love eating natural cacao beans.
You should concern RedBull drinkers. Every can of 250ml RedBull contains 25g of industrial white sugar.
Ouch, thats real poison! One espresso contains 80mg of caffeine. If your weight is 60 kg you must drink 6 gallons
of espresso to have a lethal dose. http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/GRAS/SCOGS/ucm256650.htm

Is that enough scientific evidence?

I am not sure how this applied to me.

Vyvanse helps a lot at binge eating and is much better for binge eaters than any other AMP product!
Vyvanse and its positive effects are worth to work hard on the specific dosage adjustment!
Dexedrine and adderall force you to eat and that is no good idea for a binge eater.

I love my ADHD although it is an disorder due to it gives me special abilities not everyone has. For me it is a
balancing act between AMP and my heavy ADHD. I work hard on it!

:giggle:

I understand more then you think about binge eating. I know that for me, I had to work on my thinking, not eating in the beginning. I had to work on triggers and why the urges to eat and self medicate were there. Ubnfortunately for me, I got the eating under control but became an alcoholic- which I am in recovery for. So for me, the eating and drinking had to do with my mental illness. I just dont think advising someone to eat once a day, or eat very little is a good thing under any circumstances when that person already suffers with control issues around food. I think it could swing the other way .

C15H25N3O
06-06-16, 09:05 AM
Thank you.

I think the amphetamine in Vyvanse helps me not only at ADHD but also so much if not extremely much in understanding myself.
It might be too much thinking about food but it is very interesting and new to me to reflect about food while having no need to
eat or appetite and seeing food as chemical substances while it is fresh and natural. The problems in my binge eating are on the
one hand pure lust to eat due to its taste and on the other hand the problem to think I would need this and that nutrition – I learn
or try to learn – let me call it "technical eating" – while listening to my body. Could be healty and a balance.

Food is only about thinking but might become difficult with any neurotransmitter disorder due to the fact it supports the flooding
of transmitters like dopamine or serotonine or endorphines. We love barbecue and the brown on the meat because it is some kind
of opium. Food can make happy! Binge eating is definately some mental illness looking for satisfaction.
But there is more that can make us happy and we will survive also on lower amounts of food. I am in a very big conflict between
eating and my love to danger seeking extreme sports as my mind loves fluffy snow and exploding waters. Both are wonderful and
gave me all my life the transmitters i needed but are harder to exercise while being a fatboy and i miss my sportive goals.
Thats why I have breaks in medication for my sports and other breaks I have to see what effect amphetamines have to me when
I am off the pill.

The caffeine thing I answered to you because you had a concern with my caffeine consume.

I just woke up and took my DREMELed Vyvanse after having a break of 7 days and drink a espresso right after it without any food.
I had no need and no wish for amphetamines and i am sure i need Vyvanse especially for stuff i dont like to do or kick my ***.
After being off Vyvanse for some days again I think it is almost less addictive than pot which might force a dependence but no
addiction almost while having a good life being able to smoke up to 5 grams a day. Ouch! Vyvanse also eliminates the pot thing a lot.

I would never say have a super strict diet and get an anorexia in opposite to binging.

I just say ---> listen to your body.