View Full Version : Are young children conscious?


mildadhd
05-22-16, 10:40 PM
Are young children conscious in the first couple of years of life.




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BellaVita
05-22-16, 11:02 PM
Yes they are.

Gilthranon
05-23-16, 12:59 AM
Why do you think child abuse is such a terrible thing that destroys an entire life and there is nothing more degradable to a human being ?

Try to remember your earliest memory. I love music and singing because my mother used to sing when I was only in her womb

Gilthranon
05-23-16, 01:01 AM
Childhood memories are the best. If I wasn't unconscious I still processed everything. I just couldn't understand what it meant. But I memorized most and now I know what it made me today.

sarahsweets
05-23-16, 02:35 AM
Of course.

mildadhd
05-23-16, 12:31 PM
I think all babies are born with the same conscious raw feelings.





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mildadhd
05-23-16, 06:48 PM
Preverbal conscious primary emotional feelings plus preverbal emotional experiences equal preverbal subconscious secondary emotional memories.





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julialouise
06-06-16, 07:46 PM
I would argue that they are incredibly conscious. Young children are constantly taking in new information and making sense of it in whatever way possible. Schemas and concepts are what they're called, and are rapidly forming at this age. They are learning what animals are and what furniture is, and that just because a chair has four legs and is brown like their pet dog, doesn't mean that it's also a dog (assimilation vs. accommodation). They may not be thinking to themselves "Hm this is an interesting thing and does not fit my mind's idea of what something is, now it's time to make sense of it!" It's learned through experience (what they see, hear, smell, touch, etc). Piaget talks about this a lot and is used all the time. Why do you think that programs like Little Einsteins exists (whether or not it's effective)?

peripatetic
06-07-16, 12:37 PM
I think all babies are born with the same conscious raw feelings.





m

i'm unsure if i'm understanding what you mean by conscious raw feelings...do you mean...pain, pleasure, surprise, love...? can you give an example or two?

i don't know if i agree with this because i need a bit more of a practical example. i will say that i think, if those basic feelings and memory of...attachment, discomfort, etc...are what you mean, then i agree *most* children are born with them, though i'm sure it's at least possible there are conditions that could cause privation of one or more...i just don't know what they are and how they work.

if you mean temperament though... i disagree. i think most children, barring some serious perhaps life threatening concerns, are born "conscious" and capable of forming memories, but my daughter has a really happy disposition. she's just a bubbly, friendly, social little girl and always has been very "easy" in ways and very interested in people and curious in general. she also never had colic or gastric reflux or any number of other things. some children are more reserved, for example, and colicky babies cry a lot. not due to anything the parents did or didn't do, but they come out as little individuals. so i think, yes, maybe the base is a pretty standard "template" of sorts, but the way it presents...children are just as unique, babies are, as adults. some are introverted, some are extroverted, some are independent, some are more cuddly...and on and on.

that's my take based on my experience, but, like i said, i'm in need of an example or two :)

mildadhd
06-09-16, 10:47 PM
i'm unsure if i'm understanding what you mean by conscious raw feelings...do you mean...pain, pleasure, surprise, love...? can you give an example or two?

i don't know if i agree with this because i need a bit more of a practical example. i will say that i think, if those basic feelings and memory of...attachment, discomfort, etc...are what you mean, then i agree *most* children are born with them, though i'm sure it's at least possible there are conditions that could cause privation of one or more...i just don't know what they are and how they work.

if you mean temperament though... i disagree. i think most children, barring some serious perhaps life threatening concerns, are born "conscious" and capable of forming memories, but my daughter has a really happy disposition. she's just a bubbly, friendly, social little girl and always has been very "easy" in ways and very interested in people and curious in general. she also never had colic or gastric reflux or any number of other things. some children are more reserved, for example, and colicky babies cry a lot. not due to anything the parents did or didn't do, but they come out as little individuals. so i think, yes, maybe the base is a pretty standard "template" of sorts, but the way it presents...children are just as unique, babies are, as adults. some are introverted, some are extroverted, some are independent, some are more cuddly...and on and on.

that's my take based on my experience, but, like i said, i'm in need of an example or two :)

Wowzers!

I agree.

I am learning to communicate about raw primal emotional systems, there is wealth of information posted by members which I would like to learn to discuss better in parts.

"Template" is a really interesting word.

The lower mammalian ability to feel raw primary emotional "template" evolved way before the human higher ability to communicate about them.

There are no primary words.

Words are tertiary "template".

The best we can do is find tertiary words that best describe how the raw emotional response systems feels

Luckily there are only 7 known unconditioned genetic primary emotional response systems.

To differentiate between primary "template" and tertiary "template" language used to describe raw primal emotion systems capitalized (7 unconditioned emotional responses systems)

Example

SEEKING, RAGE, FEAR, LUST, CARE, GRIEF, PLAY

Uncapitalized represents the many words to describe how secondary conditioned emotional experiences feel involving combinations of these 7 primal emotional behaviors. (Depending partly on internal and/or external emotional environments)

Example

SEEKING/enthusiam
CARE/attachment
PLAY/joy

There seems to be more than one type of crying, but I am tired, I would like to discuss types of crying, secondary template learning and memory, etc...on the weekend.

What are your thoughts so far, please excuse the topics I have missed so far.

m:)

Stevuke79
06-10-16, 03:44 AM
Of course they are.

Do you mean, "can they form memories?" I think the current science says that we dont have the temporal function to create memories until like 5 years old or something

Fuzzy12
06-10-16, 04:57 AM
Of course they are.

Do you mean, "can they form memories?" I think the current science says that we dont have the temporal function to create memories until like 5 years old or something

What kind of memories? I'm pretty sure we can form procedural memories and I've forgotten the name for the other type, ie facts and stuff..:lol:

Is it episodic? Maybe those are the memories we can't form at very young age, ie explicit memories of particular events or facts.

mildadhd
06-10-16, 08:27 AM
Example.

I am sure as young children we can remember our primary caregivers very early in life, etc.



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Fuzzy12
06-10-16, 09:12 AM
Example.

I am sure as young children we can remember our primary caregivers very early in life, etc.



m

I think it depends on how young and what you mean by remember.

So how young are we talking about?

And what do you mean by remember. I think at any age our external environment can influence us, can create procedural memories and habits and havw a life long impact. I think at a very young age (and im not sure how young. Maybe it's before the age of 5 like Steve said or maybe before the age of 2-3. I don't know) we can't remember actual facts or specific events even though they might have an impact on us and the rest of our lives.

Stevuke79
06-10-16, 04:18 PM
What kind of memories? I'm pretty sure we can form procedural memories and I've forgotten the name for the other type, ie facts and stuff..:lol:

Is it episodic? Maybe those are the memories we can't form at very young age, ie explicit memories of particular events or facts.

Yeah. You're right. Its not my subject but if i understand it, when people say 'memory' i think we always mean 'noetic memory'. Ie. Episodic or fact based. A memory with some kind temporal context where we would say 'I remember something' or 'I have a memory'. These are impossible without some temporal lobe function.

'Anoetic memories' (ie procedural or implicit) are formed even inutero. But by definition no one is conscious of their anoetic memories. We quite literally don't remember them.

(If anyone was going to ask, anoetic memory is like
1. muscle memory
2. the familiarity of balancing a bicycle even if you have no recollection of ever ridong a bike
3. the fact that one finds the smells of one's home soothing even if they have no idea where they may have smelled it before.

In all of these cases the memory exists even if you don't 'remember' anything.)

mctavish23
06-10-16, 09:22 PM
Mostly when they're awake :D

UR Welcome :cool:

mildadhd
06-25-16, 09:21 PM
Mostly when they're awake :D

UR Welcome :cool:


Young children have the lower subcortical capacity for implicit emotional memories of anoetic conscious and noetic unconscious preverbal experiences, before the higher neocortical mechanisms develop the capacity for mature explicit emotional and cognitive memories of autonoetic conscious verbal experiences.


http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnbeh.2013.00210/full#



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mildadhd
06-27-16, 09:31 PM
3) Tertiary template (autonoetic consciousness)

2) Secondary template (noetic consciousness)

1) Primary template (anoetic consciousness)





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ginniebean
06-28-16, 04:33 PM
Of course they are.

Do you mean, "can they form memories?" I think the current science says that we dont have the temporal function to create memories until like 5 years old or something

I have memories as far back as two years old. I have heard the same from others as well. I can diagram a house we moved out of when I was two years old and never saw again. My family didn't believe me until I drew it for them.

mildadhd
07-01-16, 04:17 PM
I think it depends on how young and what you mean by remember.

So how young are we talking about?

And what do you mean by remember. I think at any age our external environment can influence us, can create procedural memories and habits and havw a life long impact. I think at a very young age (and im not sure how young. Maybe it's before the age of 5 like Steve said or maybe before the age of 2-3. I don't know) we can't remember actual facts or specific events even though they might have an impact on us and the rest of our lives.

Great questions.

Preverbal ages, before we learn to talk a language as a general guide.

Consider how our biceps remember.

The size and strength of our biceps depend partly on the experiences of our biceps.

The memories are in health of our biceps, even if our biceps do not cognitively recall.


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Impromptu_DTour
07-01-16, 04:30 PM
I wish i had more time to have fun here, but im borrowing it as i speak.

I cant help but to swear up and down that my 1 year old is more conscious than i am, but i also am of the ilk who believe such things to be true.

I also feel theres validity in the thought that memory is stored in our DNA. Now whether you want to perceive that as past life, or what not.. i cant help but to feel that traits such as anxieties, abilities, and various presets and the like.. are passed via genetic hand-me-downs.

I dont have a study on hand, but ive come across them.. id find one but again.. borrowed time (son is sleeping.. im supposed to be cleaning a car).. if my memory serves me, we (during our own life, experience and nurturing), can manage to alter our own DNA, which would then be passed along. Im trying to think more about that when i engage in constructing and deconstructing habits, rituals and beliefs.

One could say that this could be a passing of memory, or consciousness.. though they might not be able to fully "read" what their spectrum of reality is presenting them.. but i feel that definitely just before a year, my own son fully started taking ownership and accountability for his own psyche, "the personality develops" and all that jazz. and in that my partner and I see alot of ourselves, as well things that are very much not us, but him.

i could be meandering off topic though. if i am.. forgive me and move along.

iDTour

mildadhd
07-01-16, 04:33 PM
I do not need to remember to breath, to be breathing.




m

Impromptu_DTour
07-01-16, 04:34 PM
I do not need to remember to breath, to be breathing.




m


subconscious =/= unconscious =/= not conscious

iDTour

mildadhd
07-01-16, 04:46 PM
I wish i had more time to have fun here, but im borrowing it as i speak.

I cant help but to swear up and down that my 1 year old is more conscious than i am, but i also am of the ilk who believe such things to be true.

I also feel theres validity in the thought that memory is stored in our DNA. Now whether you want to perceive that as past life, or what not.. i cant help but to feel that traits such as anxieties, abilities, and various presets and the like.. are passed via genetic hand-me-downs.

I dont have a study on hand, but ive come across them.. id find one but again.. borrowed time (son is sleeping.. im supposed to be cleaning a car).. if my memory serves me, we (during our own life, experience and nurturing), can manage to alter our own DNA, which would then be passed along. Im trying to think more about that when i engage in constructing and deconstructing habits, rituals and beliefs.

One could say that this could be a passing of memory, or consciousness.. though they might not be able to fully "read" what their spectrum of reality is presenting them.. but i feel that definitely just before a year, my own son fully started taking ownership and accountability for his own psyche, "the personality develops" and all that jazz. and in that my partner and I see alot of ourselves, as well things that are very much not us, but him.

i could be meandering off topic though. if i am.. forgive me and move along.

iDTour

Right on topic.

Young children are more affective conscious than cognitive conscious.

Because affective consciousness matures first (primary template and secondary template) (anoetic + noetic is implicit before explicit autonoetic reaches maturity).

mildadhd
07-01-16, 04:59 PM
subconscious =/= unconscious =/= not conscious

iDTour

1)Conscious feelings 2)subconscious implicit memories (before age of 2)

Bottom up 7 genetic unconditioned emotional response systems are common "ancestral memories" primal primary template conscious feeling systems without/before secondary experience/maturation and tertiary cognitive consciousness.

3)..
2)Noetic subconsciousness (secondary template)
1)Anoetic consciousness (primary template)

Affective (implicit) consciousness.






m