View Full Version : social responsibility vs full disclosure


peripatetic
06-12-16, 02:12 AM
i've debated with myself how and what exactly to post on this topic for a good hour now and i'm just going to write some stuff to get it out of my head and certainly appreciate any insight offered.

what the **** is it exactly that people want? i was told tonight that the way my mental health affects my partner/husband is that he doesn't believe that i will tell him the truth if he asks certain questions about the thoughts in my head/my symptoms.

frankly, he's not wrong. BUT, what the hell does he really want? there is literally nothing he could/can do to fix it. i promise, if he could, i sure as hell would let him. or anyone. but what am i supposed to do? it's socially irresponsible of me to answer his questions about whether i retain this or that and whether i struggle. i get by. i'm here. i take my ******* meds and i go to partial and groups and blah blah blah and, seriously, if i say nothing then it's all worrying, if i say what's in my head, he'd be upset, so i say i've got it under control. because i do.

this is probably more a vent than anything else, but i swear sometimes it's just when i'm doing well that i get this mirror held up and, though i know it's not the intention, i get to feel guilty because i can't figure out how to make it ok for everyone else that i'm not always ok.

what am i supposed to do here? care that other people will just be upset or tell them what they say they want access to and actually upset them? it's a no-win situation.

i will note that i did say a pretty snarky thing two nights ago when i didn't know what all this was about and he acted all "long suffering" sorta and i was like, i know it's not pleasant for anyone, but don't for a second think you suffer my mental illness more than i do. that wasn't nice. and i know i'm not always easy to be around and i'm sure it's hard when i'm unwell. but...i really don't know what i'm supposed to do to make everyone else ok when i clearly can't do a very good job of making myself ok. but then, i do think that's why i can focus on others' struggles usually much better than having people focus on mine. it's almost like it's more work to have to accept support than to give it. well, that and because i'm pretty nervous about letting people know things about me concerning these things.

anyway, relationships are stressful sometimes, even if they're overall quite solid. and that stress can sneak up on you. and i hope i feel better after getting this out, but i am not holding my breath for it.

cheers for listening. x

C15H25N3O
06-12-16, 04:29 AM
First I dont think a partner should not ask for the others thoughts if it is no asking for any evaluation. Our social behaviour and relationship behaviour means a lot of lying all the day. Not in the sense of manipulation but as mechanisms, masks or to avoid a discussion in the meaning of self protection or defense. Asking for others thoughts is a sign that the partner is thinking for or about you. It can be caring or mistrusting but both can be a problem for one of both if it becomes too much and force needless thinking. Caring takes a lot of energy of the caring one and can be a cage for the other one. Mistrusting can hurt as it is doubting. A relationship should be trustful and supporting also mental freedom instead of caring.

Caring and mistrusting should have minor presence. It is about accepting and tolerating each other as individuals. Thats why we lie to protect our individual being. It is your right to retain and struggle if you feel a need and no one can make everything ok in every situation. Human being is not perfect. We are not cloned. Amphetamines help me not to feel guilty, to like myself, support clear recognition and finding solutions.

You could try to change the situations using ADDs divergence for enjoying each other instead of needless thinking.

anonymouslyadd
06-12-16, 10:28 AM
I don't think people know what they really want. Seriously.

I was taken aback when I read a member's spouse felt betrayed because he didn't disclose all his thoughts. This seems strange to me. If I disclosed all my thoughts, they'd call me crazy.

We can't control our thoughts like they can.

peripatetic
06-12-16, 10:43 AM
He's talking about specific things, I should say. He wants me to tell him when I have plans and so forth. When I'm hearing things.

That's specific enough but the point is it's not about my ADHD. I think he'd do a backflip of joy if that were my only or even main issue.

He wants to "be there" for me but to me that feels pointless because, at the end of the day, it's just me in my head and I don't believe others knowing my troubles, especially when they're winning, is going to give them a very good outcome if I can't take it anymore.

It's like he's trying to save me because he thinks he can and I'm trying to spare him the horrible bits because I know when the **** hits the fan, he can't. I don't think anyone can.

TygerSan
06-12-16, 10:56 AM
It's hard, really hard. I tend to blab and vent and gush and disclose things I later regret. If there's something wrong with me, if there's something on *my* mind and you're close to me, you'll know it (whether that's the wisest course of action or not).

My partner . . . is pretty much the polar opposite. He shuts down. I can see when things are off, but he doesn't talk and he doesn't want to. It's difficult to just let things be when I can see something festering under the surface and I'm not patient enough to just let things shake out on his own time.

In your case, it sounds like, although there's literally nothing he can do to fix things, he still wants to know, which means he still cares. Being fussed over is no fun, but it sounds like he wants. . . honesty and clarity? Except that I know that sometimes the reaction to such revelations . . . are not positive. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. (and I've definitely screwed that one up myself; listening without reacting and/or judging is hard, even within the closest of relationships). Does voicing some of that stuff to him give it even *more* power than it normally would?

peripatetic
06-12-16, 12:31 PM
Hmm. That's an interesting question, tyger. I don't think it does with respect to the topic of our conversation last night. He wants to know if I keep plans somewhere. Or if I'm still planning. There's no positive way to say "I don't need hardcopies" and "sometimes". So I say I destroyed everything on paper and try to avoid thinking about it. That's not untrue, but it's incomplete.

Other things, like the other one I mentioned, I admit that's less about only protecting him and more about protecting myself and him. Hearing voices is pretty much never a good sign and I've seen his face fall when he finds out. I think more my motivation is that I don't always know what's what and i want space to sort it out myself. Plus it could be random and not indicative of some larger wave about to crest.

With some of the images that get put in my head, they're terrifying and graphic and I'm ashamed that it happens to me so I certainly don't want to discuss it. Plus there's a strong feeling I have that if I tell then it'll come to pass and then I'll be responsible.

Sorry if that's a bit disjointed. I'm half listening for E to wake from her nap.

Shamindo
06-12-16, 12:38 PM
I disclose too much and later regret because truly, I can not put into words how it is I feel and think. There's just too much going on, and often I am dissapointed with the response I get. And really, it isn't the listener's fault, they just don't understand and I can't say exactly what it is I am going through. I'm trying to look at my mental health as my responsibility, and getting better at knowing how to ask for help when I need it. I ******* hate it when people say "Oh is that because of your ADHD?" and I'm like....no it's because I had three hours of sleep last night. So setting boundaries about talking about your mental health issues is important. My next partner will know 2 things 1) I know my disorder better than he so I won't need constant reflective comments from him when something pops up (though I might say it nicer than I have written this haha) and 2) When I need help I will ask for it, otherwise it is my struggle. And to be honest, we all have a right to experience struggle and grief, it's what helps us grow into insightful and wise people. Having someone always there ready to help really doesn't help at the end of the day. This is my struggle, I want to experience it and learn from it...not be codependent on the people around me.

kilted_scotsman
06-12-16, 01:05 PM
It can be very difficult to open up to people. Most of us have been through multiple scenarios where we have shared and people have moved away from us as a result.

The hard thing to understand is that intimacy in a relationship is not physical it's about this sharing. It's a two way street, firstly we need to learn to share more with our partners than we would do normally and trust that they aren't going to vanish in a cloud of dust.....

and they have to get used to hearing us say things that don't make much sense to an NT person and not judge us or try to fix it..... this latter can be very difficult for guys as it's what we are conditioned to do.

We co-create our relationships..... what we do impacts others, sometimes heavily so we do sometimes owe our partners a bit of a heads up when things are getting tough for us..... this is difficult as it's often just the time when we have learned not to say anything to anyone.

Not communicating is often based on a fear..... sometimes sharing that fear is the way to open communication about more difficult subjects...... start with relational "meta-communication" talking about communicating.... one's fears and anxieties around communicating, how the other might react, how difficult it is etc

Being able to signal to our partners when times are tough for us and why is an essential part of living in relationship..... because the less clear info the person/partner has the more likely they are to make guesses/assumptions and then make judgements... which rarely has a good outcome over time.

Little Missy
06-12-16, 03:46 PM
Some things really are better left unsaid.

peripatetic
06-12-16, 04:29 PM
Some things really are better left unsaid.


That's my thought exactly. My partner disagrees. Hence, the question.

Fuzzy12
06-12-16, 04:29 PM
Maybe he feels helpless and knowing what you are thinking or how you are doing makes him feel a bit more in control..even if it's just the illusion of control. Maybe he knows there's nothing much he can do to help but is just desperate to do.something even if it's just sharing the pain.

On the other side I can totally understand where you are coming from (I think).

I don't think you have an obligation to share and no one really has a right to your thoughts but when it's advantageous or fair to share I really don't know.

peripatetic
06-12-16, 04:41 PM
I agree with much of what you write, kilted. And I do think there's fear because I don't want it to be any worse for him than it has to be.

I guess my follow up question to you, in light of your post, is it even responsible to (try to) have intimate relationships with people if you know in advance that, due to diagnoses and subtypes and symptoms and other factors, the odds of ultimately being an unpleasant statistic aren't in your favour?

I fell in love with him long before it got to where we are now, so you can be honest without thinking it's going to make me regret this or that. I'm just saying, if we were talking about someone with late stage (fill in the blank), is it socially responsible to enter into a relationship? I admit I'm not always as altruistic as I wish I could be and my selfishness might override reason if I loved someone.

For the record, I'm not what I'd consider the equivalent of being on hospice or anything, at present. And I'm also largely sufficiently treated and things are manageable, though sometimes I feel like an invalid. And at this moment, certainly, I fully intend and hope to be around because I very much want to watch my little girl grow up and I want to experience life with my m. I mention that because I don't want people getting the wrong impression. If I were unwell I wouldn't be discussing it coherently and if I were planning with a timeframe I wouldn't be online at all. So, I'm fine at the moment is my point. Nothing to be wondering about.

It can be very difficult to open up to people. Most of us have been through multiple scenarios where we have shared and people have moved away from us as a result.

The hard thing to understand is that intimacy in a relationship is not physical it's about this sharing. It's a two way street, firstly we need to learn to share more with our partners than we would do normally and trust that they aren't going to vanish in a cloud of dust.....

and they have to get used to hearing us say things that don't make much sense to an NT person and not judge us or try to fix it..... this latter can be very difficult for guys as it's what we are conditioned to do.

We co-create our relationships..... what we do impacts others, sometimes heavily so we do sometimes owe our partners a bit of a heads up when things are getting tough for us..... this is difficult as it's often just the time when we have learned not to say anything to anyone.

Not communicating is often based on a fear..... sometimes sharing that fear is the way to open communication about more difficult subjects...... start with relational "meta-communication" talking about communicating.... one's fears and anxieties around communicating, how the other might react, how difficult it is etc

Being able to signal to our partners when times are tough for us and why is an essential part of living in relationship..... because the less clear info the person/partner has the more likely they are to make guesses/assumptions and then make judgements... which rarely has a good outcome over time.

kilted_scotsman
06-12-16, 07:24 PM
Being an unpleasant statistic isn't a reason not to enter into a relationship. As long as the other person knows the situation then it's up to them whether they commit or not.

When we use these reasons to avoid intimacy it is sometimes because we fear intimacy ourselves, really exposing ourself to what relationship means, particularly the intense feelings around loss and loneliness..... ultimately all relationships will come to an end and in one person will be left remembering the other.

Being with someone is potentially growthful regardless, and there is an added intensity in relationship that comes from facing the deep existential fears that underlie our lives. Irvin Yalom writes beautifully about how those who face these issues, really face them and live life fully regardless, are teachers and being intimately in their presence is a rare blessing, with the lessons learned lasting for a lifetime thereafter.

Yalom names these fundamental existential fears as .... Death, Loneliness, Freedom and Meaninglessness. Being with someone who is living with these full on in the here and now is a different kind of relationship, and a partner who is willing to step into what that means should be allowed to make that choice.

Pushing them away and trying to deny them the chance of living in the intense light of these existential issues is not protecting them.... it's keeping a gift from them.

Much depends on the qualities of the partners..... just how far can each go into the void of Yalom's four fears.....leading and supporting each other.

It's a hard place to go on your own..... and each of us have to go there eventually... better to have learned through holding someone's hand and then pass on the message by having a hand to hold.

peripatetic
06-12-16, 08:26 PM
Being an unpleasant statistic isn't a reason not to enter into a relationship. As long as the other person knows the situation then it's up to them whether they commit or not.

When we use these reasons to avoid intimacy it is sometimes because we fear intimacy ourselves, really exposing ourself to what relationship means, particularly the intense feelings around loss and loneliness..... ultimately all relationships will come to an end and in one person will be left remembering the other.

Being with someone is potentially growthful regardless, and there is an added intensity in relationship that comes from facing the deep existential fears that underlie our lives. Irvin Yalom writes beautifully about how those who face these issues, really face them and live life fully regardless, are teachers and being intimately in their presence is a rare blessing, with the lessons learned lasting for a lifetime thereafter.

Yalom names these fundamental existential fears as .... Death, Loneliness, Freedom and Meaninglessness. Being with someone who is living with these full on in the here and now is a different kind of relationship, and a partner who is willing to step into what that means should be allowed to make that choice.

Pushing them away and trying to deny them the chance of living in the intense light of these existential issues is not protecting them.... it's keeping a gift from them.

Much depends on the qualities of the partners..... just how far can each go into the void of Yalom's four fears.....leading and supporting each other.

It's a hard place to go on your own..... and each of us have to go there eventually... better to have learned through holding someone's hand and then pass on the message by having a hand to hold.

i really don't know if i agree with you or not. i can see what you're outlining, but the bolded part (my bolding)... i just don't know about that. i'm not seeing the "gift" part.

but...though this part i do see your point, i think: It's a hard place to go on your own..... and each of us have to go there eventually... better to have learned through holding someone's hand and then pass on the message by having a hand to hold.

maybe what i'm not saying very elegantly is that i can kinda see what you're saying, but this vantage point i'm afforded right now, doesn't always exist. and it especially is nowhere to be found when i'm unwell. it just doesn't seem like any of that is more than rationalising not being alone, when i think i should be alone. that's on the one hand, how i feel coming to its full being and then on the other hand, mind you i'm not a religious person, but i do worry that the universe will punish me in certain ways i don't need to get into on here.

hmm. i'll think on it though. cheers for your reply

peripatetic
06-13-16, 12:45 AM
i'm sorry, but i read this twice earlier and just read it again...and, i truly don't understand where you're going with this. i'm usually better at figuring out things, but i'm not clever enough on this one. i do appreciate your taking the time, nonetheless. cheers.

First I dont think a partner should not ask for the others thoughts if it is no asking for any evaluation. Our social behaviour and relationship behaviour means a lot of lying all the day. Not in the sense of manipulation but as mechanisms, masks or to avoid a discussion in the meaning of self protection or defense. Asking for others thoughts is a sign that the partner is thinking for or about you. It can be caring or mistrusting but both can be a problem for one of both if it becomes too much and force needless thinking. Caring takes a lot of energy of the caring one and can be a cage for the other one. Mistrusting can hurt as it is doubting. A relationship should be trustful and supporting also mental freedom instead of caring.

Caring and mistrusting should have minor presence. It is about accepting and tolerating each other as individuals. Thats why we lie to protect our individual being. It is your right to retain and struggle if you feel a need and no one can make everything ok in every situation. Human being is not perfect. We are not cloned. Amphetamines help me not to feel guilty, to like myself, support clear recognition and finding solutions.

You could try to change the situations using ADDs divergence for enjoying each other instead of needless thinking.

sarahsweets
06-13-16, 06:04 AM
Peri-
You KNOW I identify with you on this. For me, the shame of being 'defective' or not a good enough mom, or that what I say isnt really what I mean is quite trying. Its a catch 22 for me. i either let it all out and risk looking crazy, or I keep it all in and feel crazy. I never sure what the right choice is.... and then there is fear. Will I seem unable to care for my kids properly? I know I can, but does he know without a doubt? Not sure sometimes. I am managing the best I can but I wonder, is it good enough? I get sick of the hoop jumping sometimes. But I also know that my past behaviors and instability can make things hard for my loved ones to understand. Wish I had better advice but we are in a similar boat it seems.