View Full Version : We're all equal


Gilthranon
07-02-16, 06:49 PM
I'm so ******* done with it. We're all equal and we should be. And I don't give a flying **** what anyone thinks of it. There should be no unjustice.

You speak your mind and if someone is too damn messed up to be unable to handle it, then they should go live in fairy tale land where they belong.

Sorry really angry

stef
07-02-16, 06:50 PM
damn straight we are all equal!!!
its so obvious

Gilthranon
07-04-16, 05:01 AM
Thnx for responding however I'm deeply disappointed no one else seems to on a topic all people should be agreeing on

Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 05:32 AM
I don't understand the question to be honest. In what way equal? I agree that we all should be treated equally, respectfully, and that we all have the same value if you can value a human a life.

We aren't exactly the same though. Individual differences n all..

Also what's the connection to speaking your mind?

sarahsweets
07-04-16, 06:01 AM
I dont understand either. What do you mean by equal? Do you mean all adhd'rs should be equal in their impairments? Women and men as equals?

midnightstar
07-04-16, 04:27 PM
Yes I believe we are all equal as well :grouphug:

aeon
07-04-16, 04:49 PM
Equal under the law? Absolutely!

But equal as compared and contrasted with each other?

No, surely not.

Which is not to say better, or worse.

But equal? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well, my truth, which is of no consequence to anyone other than my self.


Cheers,
Ian

Corina86
07-04-16, 06:07 PM
We're all equal, but some are more equal than others :)

Twiggy
07-04-16, 06:30 PM
Well, humans are equal if you consider that death happens to every living thing.

Everything else will not make anyone equal with anyone.

Equality sounds nice, right? But does it ever happen? No.

Gilthranon
07-05-16, 05:49 AM
Ok I'll rephrase

You guys say unfortunately we're not all equal ? That's indeed what some deem it do be. I see humans, regardless what situation born in, with something to say. And based on experience with individuals, no amount of money or respect or family can replace the importance of what some random individuals have to add to this world. Information that could change this world for the better much more effectively than some high ranked people preferring to bury their heads in the sand who stand for nothing but re election

Some people are important or better heard or have more influence over this planet - "just because"

So no. I'm not convinced by anyone saying we aren't equal. We are, some just don't realize it until they have to. Well, we should be. I would feel a whole lot better and its something I'd like to stand for.

Unmanagable
07-05-16, 08:42 AM
I feel we're equally made up of a lot of the same stuff, as far as being born into this human gig, so I guess that can technically be defined as equal.

But then we have the little details of individual and collective privilege and individual and collective direct experiences.

I feel that plays a huge part in how well we can each learn to work our equalness to the best of our ability and circumstance, based on what we were dealt to work with and the support that surrounds.

Being forced into recognition of self and out of our comfort zones can certainly be a powerful unity prompter, and a great motivator for healthy change, as I've learned in the last year-ish, but it's definitely not my preferred method.

As long as we have pieces of flying cloth that indicate separation, labels that greatly divide and often demean, and a society that's strongly driven by monetary gains, I'm afraid we won't see much demonstration or acceptance of equalness.

WheresMyMind
07-05-16, 11:54 AM
Your question suggests that whatever kind of "equal" you're thinking of is something that has to be granted to someone - either by society, government, peers, whoever.

The US constitution claims that humans are all created equally - there is no granting to be done, we are born this way. Seems like the writers of the US constitution must have had a different kind of "equal" on their minds.

Here's my take:

Are we created as equal humans with equal capabilities? No. And that's the biggest thing that makes human life a blessing. Each has different abilities and desires.

Should each of us have equal ability to pursue our particular contribution to society? Yes.

Should laws/regulations be invoked so that those who have somehow figured out how to become more powerful have to give some of that power to those who have not figured it out, as a way to equalize something? No. If a person wants something, they should work for it - that is the equality.

You mention something about being heard, so, should everybody have equal ability to be heard? Yes. And we do. The internet is available to all. However, "being heard" is 90% the responsibility of the person trying to send a message. If your message resonates with people, it will spread, maybe even virally. If a person is not being heard, most of the time the reason is that their message doesn't particularly interest people.

There seems to be an undercurrent of "important" or human value in some of your comments. This opens up the biggest can of worms.

Do all people have equal value? I answer: wrong question. The question should be: Is there any reason we should consider the value of a human relative to another? The answer: no. Our various societies infuse us with the damaging idea that somehow our worth is tied to how many children we have, how many meals we donate to the homeless, how many friends we have, how important our job is, and so on.

All of those things are important and have value - to society. And it is good to do things and contribute value to society.

But that does not create a value system for the human being. It may sound wrong, but I think the only rational decision is to decide that no human has intrinsic value. I say this because it's the only way to guarantee that we don't get misled into believing that one human may have more value than another - that's the sort of inequality that we can prevent and IMO, should prevent.

Some of this was created by the misguided self-esteem movement, which has thankfully petered out.

So, does that help clarify things about "equal"? Equal what? Created, or inborn?

WMM

lntense
07-05-16, 04:45 PM
So why don't you let me speak my mind and add a NO to this poll?

Gilthranon
07-07-16, 03:43 AM
Because it shouldn't be an option. On the subject of speaking your mind - you just did and really don't need anyone to let you (as in no one needs permission)

But if that's a serious question you need to know me better or reread all I wrote and get my mentality on this. I'm close minded on several subjects in life. Sorry about that mate

peripatetic
07-07-16, 04:25 AM
Equal under the law? Absolutely!

But equal as compared and contrasted with each other?

No, surely not.

Which is not to say better, or worse.

But equal? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Well, my truth, which is of no consequence to anyone other than my self.


Cheers,
Ian

i can't help but think of the short story harrison bergeron.

i agree people should be treated equally according to capacity under the law. i also agree that no way at all are people "equal"...i'm quite tall, just as a random example. someone who is five two simply isn't going to be "equal" to me in terms of getting things out of a cupboard unassisted by a step ladder or chair or stool or climbing up onto the countertops or something. if s/he is, then s/he's very UNequal to me in terms of jumping ability or cleverness or something ;)

i don't think we're "equal" at all. if we were, then we'd be a pretty bland species. on a more positive note, there wouldn't be children born with horrible, life shortening afflictions and so forth. we wouldn't have such abject poverty and homelessness intermingling with the latest handbags that cost thousands of dollars...and there wouldn't be people occupying those respective lives without a second thought given to the other.

it's a nice idea...sorta...and i do think justice is blind. the thing is though, i'm not blind...not at the moment on this topic at least, and i see inequality every single day. seriously. that's because there's a thing called privilege that not only undermines any real notion of equality, even in the sense of being equal in the eyes of the law, but that notion of privilege itself leads those with it, who leave it unchecked or haven't been given the opportunity to check it, believing that we are all equal and we simply are not. the opportunities afforded by various types of privilege might make it seem like everyone is equal because in that heady moment of feeling ones own "freedom" and "self determination" it's forgotten that for many people in the world...those words simply carry no practical weight in their lives.

peripatetic
07-07-16, 04:47 AM
Should laws/regulations be invoked so that those who have somehow figured out how to become more powerful have to give some of that power to those who have not figured it out, as a way to equalize something? No. If a person wants something, they should work for it - that is the equality.


i made the bolded part of your post bolded because...seriously?!

how do you account for those people who by inheiritance did nothing and yet reap the benefits? hard work?

and speaking of hard work...are you suggesting that the ability or moral imperative (should, as you said) to work for it...that either of those constitute equality?

if the latter...then why doesn't jjjrichpants the fifth have to work at it? if the former...you fail to consider the many reasons someone may be unable to "work for it"...and let's, in this case, say "it" is food or shelter or healthcare. it's naive at best to really think that those without are simply not working for what they want and taking advantage of their being equal to do so. jobs pay different amounts...getting hired at one requires different education, attire, hygiene...maybe those things aren't something an individual CAN realistically or at all reasonably be expected to simply work hard enough to get. especially if said person has no legs and some sort of degenerative disease.

it'd be awesome, i guess, if we really all did start out with these options to just do it and so forth. but that's not reality. people have different impairments, different parents, different lives born into (facticity) and saying, just work for it basically fails to see huge swaths of people who simply cannot, for any number of reasons, ever be "equal" on the basis of desiring something and working to get it. you can only work for something beyond basic subsistence when you've already been fortunate enough to NOT have to work for it.

case in point: my daughter doesn't work for anything. one day i hope she'll be able to and find value in bringing her efforts to fruition. but i'd be lying to myself if i thought that her situation and that of a similarly aged child in dire circumstances or suffering from chronic ailments were "equal" to her and they both just need to work for it.

i don't want to get into the political discuss this inevitably leads to because i suspect we have very different ideas given your characterization of redistribution of wealth. however, if we didn't acknowledge as a human community that it is not the case that people can just work hard and get their desires met, there would be a lot of dying elderly people, babies, unwell...ah, but wait...there are. but not because they're all equal because of it or because of their ability or lack thereof for attaining their desires on their hard work alone.

aeon
07-07-16, 05:17 AM
I think putting all of one’s stock into either personal responsibility or systemic responsibility
results in worldview and moral imperative that is far, far away from the truth of the human
condition as it exists today, same as it ever was, and likely shall it ever be.


Cheers,
Ian

Fortune
07-07-16, 05:19 AM
All humans have intrinsic value to someone whether family, friends, pets, etc. This is appropriate and people should value each other. Viewing people as having no value is a primrose path to a dystopian hellscape.

Gilthranon
07-07-16, 05:30 AM
After reading several perspectives I must say I'm impressed by your insight and clarity. Especially you peri (gave you the green) - eye opener - very enriching. Of course I'm not changing my mind (I have my reasons, although these seem awfully simplistic. Language barrier I suppose) but beautifully put and I'm in agreement !

sarahsweets
07-07-16, 07:44 AM
Equality and inequality are very subjective.

Gilthranon
07-08-16, 02:14 PM
I have to admit something.

My reason for this thread is because I know what's it like to be second place. To have someone next to me who has the higher voice and consequently never makes you feel as respected individual as supposed to be.

I can't take control loving people anymore. I've decided it's ok to keep my rebellish attitudes as a style as a result of my reaction to my upbringing like this. And this is why I want all to have a same voice and all be equal, because I know what it's like to not be !!!

Corina86
07-08-16, 03:51 PM
You can want whatever you want, but it doesn't mean the whole world will cater to your choices. If you feel people are all equal, it's a valid choice and you should treat others as equals (to you and to each other). But you can't really change anybody's mind about this. Others will not necessarily treat you as their equal just because you want them to. And there's nothing you can do about it except prove them wrong or ignore them, which is something you can't always do because you might need their approval for something important, like getting a job or a loan, case in which you'll just have to suck it up and do your best to gain other people's respect.

Gilthranon
07-09-16, 05:30 AM
You can want whatever you want, but it doesn't mean the whole world will cater to your choices. If you feel people are all equal, it's a valid choice and you should treat others as equals (to you and to each other). But you can't really change anybody's mind about this. Others will not necessarily treat you as their equal just because you want them to. And there's nothing you can do about it except prove them wrong or ignore them, which is something you can't always do because you might need their approval for something important, like getting a job or a loan, case in which you'll just have to suck it up and do your best to gain other people's respect.
Luckily I choose my friends carefully. We don't all have to agree yet can still live without hating each other. If one doesn't approve or understand mine or other way around they can still respect it for we are not telling each other how to live.
I have a deep respect for the father of my neighbor and I always choose my handling of situations in his presence with caution. But I still see him as another human with flaws just like any of us and he shows his respects to others.

Mercurial
07-09-16, 05:32 AM
Yes we are,
Your pain is well understood and I wish you the best.

Be well,
Merc

psychopathetic
07-09-16, 01:37 PM
I like the idea of everyone being equal. But reality being as it is...we're not.
There's countless things that are used (non-consciously) to measure worth. The family you're born to, the country your born in, your ethnicity, your religion, what language you speak....this list could go on forever.
The world is highly judgmental. Alot of it is wrong IMHO...some of it is necessary, and a lot of it is just natural.
There's also the argument that...should everyone be equal?
Should someone who's a mass murderer and has no regrets or desires to stop killing...be treated equally to someone who busts there *** off working 2 jobs to keep food on the table for their kids...while still finding time to volunteer at a church a couple of times each week?

So I do like the idea of everyone being equal...but I think it falls apart and is an impossible idea.

Opearli
07-09-16, 01:53 PM
It would be fantastic if we could say we live in a world where everyone is equal, but saying that is really ignoring a big problem. Not everyone is equal. We are in the sense that no life is more valuable then another, but mentally and physically we are not all equal and it will help if we realize that and are okay with that. What we want is equity, fairness for all no matter what's going on in their life.

A good example of equality vs equity is say theres three different height people trying to look over the fence. There are three boxes. The tall person takes one box even though they have a perfect view over the fence. The mid height person takes a box, theyre JUST ABLE to see over the fence. And the last box goes to the short person, who still cant see anything.
That's equality.
Equity would be like this.
The tall person notices the shorter person is having trouble seeing over the fence with their one box. So they give their box to the shortest person. Now everyone can see over the fence.