View Full Version : Baghdad bombingS


Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 08:18 AM
Just deleted by accident most of an extremely long post. Maybe that's a good thing and i should.just give up on this rather controversial topic. I really want to hear your thoughts though. I was writing about the baghdad bombings yesterday where 165 people at least were killed.

This isn't a memorial post. I never make memorial threads or whatever they are called and I'm sure if I did a lot of people would show their support and empathise. To be honest though that isn't my real.concern. my real.question is: Does anyone really care?

Do you care? Do you care about the 165 people who died yesterday and the hundreds of people who have died in Iraq this year and in the rest of the middle east as much as you cared about the people who died in the Orlando or paris shootings or in the air port attacks in Belgium? What about the recent attacks in turkey and in Dhaka? Did they register? Did they leave an impression on anyone? Did they cause sadness or outrage in anyone? If you are perfectly honest?

I could be wrong but it seems to me that somehow a fatal terrorist attack in the US or in Europe generates a much different reaction to a fatal terrorist attack in, I'm just going to say it, the non-western world. And it's not mutual I think. I remember when 9/11 happened the news in India, where i lived at that time, were full of it. Everyone spoke about it for months. People commiserated, empathised, were outraged, scared and saddened. Does anyone feel the same during one of the many terrorist attacks in india or elsewhere in the non western world?

I've got several theories why there is this apparent discrepancy:

1. Most of the members here on addf at least are from a western country and it probably makes sense to be more affected by an attack in your own country.

2. The sheer number of deaths in the middle east. Maybe it's too much to grasp. Too much suffering, too many deaths.maybe at some point you just have to stop registering them or you will go crazy. Maybe we have become too habituated to.them.

3. It's not just a national thing because you see Americans and australians commiserate with Europeans and vice versa so.maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe we feel that we share more of the same culture and way of life and that's why we can relate to them more and that's why their deaths or their sufferings are more real for us and maybe matter more to us.

4. A lot of people think that the people in the middle east have brought this upon themselves. Iraqis killing Iraqis and isis was probably born in the middle east so it's not our problem if they kill other people in the middle east. It's only a problem if they kill an innocent, random, westerner who has got absolutely nothing to do with the whole mess in the middle east.

I really don't know but I'm not sure I like it. It worries me. Isn't suffering universal? Does an arabic woman clutching her surviving children and crying for the ones who died deserve less empathy? At that moment does it really matter who she is or where she is from? And is there anything more equalising than death?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this or if I really have a point. Maybe I'm just a bit sore these days. Maybe I'm being unfair or unreasonable. I don't expect anyone to force themselves to feel.empathy for the sake of equality or fairness..if you don't feel it you don't feel it and that's that.

I also don't expect anyone to make memorial threads for every single terrorist attack around the world in which people die. As I said, I never do and I know I won't. And I don't expect anyone to stop making memorial threads or talk about the deaths that you do care about.

I'm just curious to hear your thoughts really. Am i wrong? Is it all the same and I'm just somehow overlooking the support that is being poured out for each and every nation? Does it even matter when empathy or support don't really help anyone much?

I'd really like to point out though that we've all been extremely lucky to have been born or live in a place where a violent death, more specifically a death through terrorism, still makes a difference, where the world still takes note and empathises and mourns for you.

Hermus
07-04-16, 08:54 AM
Just deleted by accident most of an extremely long post. Maybe that's a good thing and i should.just give up on this rather controversial topic. I really want to hear your thoughts though. I was writing about the baghdad bombings yesterday where 165 people at least were killed.

This isn't a memorial post. I never make memorial threads or whatever they are called and I'm sure if I did a lot of people would show their support and empathise. To be honest though that isn't my real.concern. my real.question is: Does anyone really care?

Do you care? Do you care about the 165 people who died yesterday and the hundreds of people who have died in Iraq this year and in the rest of the middle east as much as you cared about the people who died in the Orlando or paris shootings or in the air port attacks in Belgium? What about the recent attacks in turkey and in Dhaka? Did they register? Did they leave an impression on anyone? Did they cause sadness or outrage in anyone? If you are perfectly honest?

No, I don't. Call it cynical, but nowadays news about terrorist attacks hardly causes any emotion in me anymore. There is so much violence in the world that I mostly got used to it. Which is a sad observation.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that somehow a fatal terrorist attack in the US or in Europe generates a much different reaction to a fatal terrorist attack in, I'm just going to say it, the non-western world. And it's not mutual I think. I remember when 9/11 happened the news in India, where i lived at that time, were full of it. Everyone spoke about it for months. People commiserated, empathised, were outraged, scared and saddened. Does anyone feel the same during one of the many terrorist attacks in india or elsewhere in the non western world?

I agree.

I've got several theories why there is this apparent discrepancy:

1. Most of the members here on addf at least are from a western country and it probably makes sense to be more affected by an attack in your own country.

2. The sheer number of deaths in the middle east. Maybe it's too much to grasp. Too much suffering, too many deaths.maybe at some point you just have to stop registering them or you will go crazy. Maybe we have become too habituated to.them.

3. It's not just a national thing because you see Americans and australians commiserate with Europeans and vice versa so.maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe we feel that we share more of the same culture and way of life and that's why we can relate to them more and that's why their deaths or their sufferings are more real for us and maybe matter more to us.

4. A lot of people think that the people in the middle east have brought this upon themselves. Iraqis killing Iraqis and isis was probably born in the middle east so it's not our problem if they kill other people in the middle east. It's only a problem if they kill an innocent, random, westerner who has got absolutely nothing to do with the whole mess in the middle east.

I really don't know but I'm not sure I like it. It worries me. Isn't suffering universal? Does an arabic woman clutching her surviving children and crying for the ones who died deserve less empathy? At that moment does it really matter who she is or where she is from? And is there anything more equalising than death?

I'm not sure where I'm going with this or if I really have a point. Maybe I'm just a bit sore these days. Maybe I'm being unfair or unreasonable. I don't expect anyone to force themselves to feel.empathy for the sake of equality or fairness..if you don't feel it you don't feel it and that's that.

I also don't expect anyone to make memorial threads for every single terrorist attack around the world in which people die. As I said, I never do and I know I won't. And I don't expect anyone to stop making memorial threads or talk about the deaths that you do care about.

I'm just curious to hear your thoughts really. Am i wrong? Is it all the same and I'm just somehow overlooking the support that is being poured out for each and every nation? Does it even matter when empathy or support don't really help anyone much?

I'd really like to point out though that we've all been extremely lucky to have been born or live in a place where a violent death, more specifically a death through terrorism, still makes a difference, where the world still takes note and empathises and mourns for you.

All part of the explanation I think. What is problematic in this respect is that number 4, while it seems to be the way a lot of people think, is far from the truth. One of the main causes of the current turmoil in the Middle East can be traced back to the Reagan doctrine in the 1980s. Among others the Taliban has been armed during that time.

Then there is the double-role of the West concerning Saudi-Arabia. The Saudi's are feeding islamic radicalism in the Middle East and the West looks the other way and finances the Saudi regime through buying their oil supplies. Which is understandable from an economic point of view.

And even if the West commits acts that should be classified as terror people don't seem to care. Where were all the changed Facebook pictures when the US killed 42 patients and doctors in Afghanistan during the bombing of a hospital? Where are they when Pakistani civilians get killed by drone strikes? There is something hypocritical about it.

Unmanagable
07-04-16, 09:08 AM
All lives matter to me and I absorb tragedy like a sponge, regardless of the geographic location. Media manipulation, etc. creates an environment were we live in full blown fear, yet are also extremely desensitized from things that don't immediately effect us.

I've had to learn how to direct my energies inward when the tragedies occur. I used to try to direct it externally to help ALL of the people and point out the absurdities in all of it, but continued to neglect self.

More often than not, I used to end up in the depressive ditches, overwhelmed by the sadness and heartache of never feeling like I could do enough to end the stupidity and violence. Empowering self helps self navigate the pains a bit smoother.

stef
07-04-16, 09:29 AM
It's all equally tragic :grouphug:
i think people (and the media) are more shocked by events in a major city that is not "already" in a region which has seen violence and war

Lunacie
07-04-16, 10:20 AM
The school shootings in the US felt personal to me because I had grandchildren in school.

The Orlando shooting felt personal to me because my daughter is Bi and my granddaughter is Gay.

The shooting in Hesston KS just a few months ago didn't feel so personal to me even though it was only 40 miles away because I didn't know anyone who worked there, or even know anyone who works in a manufacturing business.

When these horrors happen in an airport it's not personal to me because I don't ever fly anywhere (nowhere to go).

So, yeah, I'm concerned about these continued attacks by people who claim to be doing it on behalf of the IS fringe group, it simply doesn't feel personal to me.

Little Missy
07-04-16, 10:44 AM
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 11:34 AM
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

I disagree but I doubt we can talk about that without getting it deleted. :)

I'll say this though: in the US at least you are much much much more likely to be killed by non-terrorist gun crime than by an act of terrorism.

stef
07-04-16, 12:08 PM
*modererator note*

Please keep in mind forum guidelines when discussing these potenitally controversial and highly senstive issues

thanks
Stef

Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 12:22 PM
No, I don't. Call it cynical, but nowadays news about terrorist attacks hardly causes any emotion in me anymore. There is so much violence in the world that I mostly got used to it. Which is a sad observation.



I agree.



All part of the explanation I think. What is problematic in this respect is that number 4, while it seems to be the way a lot of people think, is far from the truth. One of the main causes of the current turmoil in the Middle East can be traced back to the Reagan doctrine in the 1980s. Among others the Taliban has been armed during that time.

Then there is the double-role of the West concerning Saudi-Arabia. The Saudi's are feeding islamic radicalism in the Middle East and the West looks the other way and finances the Saudi regime through buying their oil supplies. Which is understandable from an economic point of view.

And even if the West commits acts that should be classified as terror people don't seem to care. Where were all the changed Facebook pictures when the US killed 42 patients and doctors in Afghanistan during the bombing of a hospital? Where are they when Pakistani civilians get killed by drone strikes? There is something hypocritical about it.


I don't get emotionally affected either by all the deaths around the world or by every bombjng fatality or every atrocity comittes by isis or whoever else. You do get numb after a while I guess and like unsi said we do have to.protect our own selves. You can't really afford to hurt for everyone.

My question was really if we react differently to who the fatality is or where they are from though like Lunacie said a lot of factors play a role in determining who we relate to or how much.

I also agree with your other point that the situation in the middle east isn't that simple or that the west is blame free though I guess it's very difficult to quantify how much anyone is to be blamed. I was just saying that a lot of people might see this more as a civil war, an internal affair that doesn't concern us (even though that's not correct ) till something happens closer to home.

Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 12:26 PM
It's all equally tragic :grouphug:
i think people (and the media) are more shocked by events in a major city that is not "already" in a region which has seen violence and war

Yes, I'm sure that's true. I was reading through the numbers today just in Iraq and seriously the mind boggles. It's too much to grasp. I guess it night be inevitable that at some point you just see it as business as usual.

I do find it shocking though that there are some regions where this is business as usual, that there are some people who have to live with this.

.
I I remember asking a colleague originally from Baghdad what it's like to live there and he just said very simply it was hell. He still has family there and he said he fears every single day that something has happened to them.

acdc01
07-04-16, 12:40 PM
I do not feel sadness for the people that lost their lives in any event anywhere in the world because I don't feel a personal connection to them.

I need to have a real, personal connection to a person to feel sadness for their deaths. Even when my own coworker died, I felt nothing as I didn't really know her well and didn't have a personal bond with her. It was odd actually, none of the guys cried at all at my workplace while many of the women did. I'm not a man but I wondered if I am just more like most men are emotionally. I don't think the men were just hiding their feelings either. I think the women just empathized more.

Do people really feel sadness for the individuals who's lives were lost when they don't know the people?

I do feel a sadness that there is such ugliness in the world that grows an infinitesimal amount each time a tragic event occurs. But the killings don't seem to affect even that sadness much anymore cause I am used to it.

I felt a greater sadness with Brexit and the hatred generated by Ghostbusters (pure sexism to me). I think cause it was more surprising to me. I didn't realize the hate was so strong in these areas whereas, the killings are no longer a surprise.

stef
07-04-16, 12:46 PM
The fact that something happened so near where I live (paris in November), makes the others seem more real, and not just statistics and events that happen "somewhere else".

Fuzzy12
07-04-16, 01:35 PM
I do not feel sadness for the people that lost their lives in any event anywhere in the world because I don't feel a personal connection to them.

I need to have a real, personal connection to a person to feel sadness for their deaths. Even when my own coworker died, I felt nothing as I didn't really know her well and didn't have a personal bond with her. It was odd actually, none of the guys cried at all at my workplace while many of the women did. I'm not a man but I wondered if I am just more like most men are emotionally. I don't think the men were just hiding their feelings either. I think the women just empathized more.

Do people really feel sadness for the individuals who's lives were lost when they don't know the people?

I do feel a sadness that there is such ugliness in the world that grows an infinitesimal amount each time a tragic event occurs. But the killings don't seem to affect even that sadness much anymore cause I am used to it.

I felt a greater sadness with Brexit and the hatred generated by Ghostbusters (pure sexism to me). I think cause it was more surprising to me. I didn't realize the hate was so strong in these areas whereas, the killings are no longer a surprise.

I hadn't even heard of the ghost busters controversy. Just looked it up now. Just goes to show that I too live in my own bubble I guess.

I do feel sad and disturbed when I hear of anyone dying and that's really anyone if i some how approved of them or not. I even shed a little tear for saddam hussain. I just don't like the idea of people dying (or worse, other non human animals). Of being gone.. but that's a different topic I guess.

Little Missy
07-04-16, 03:38 PM
I have not read it yet, but it said 3 places in Saudi Arabia have just been suicide bombed.

Those people doing it must not like any us. :(

Fortune
07-04-16, 03:51 PM
Something that doesn't seem to be considered much when these questions come up is whether the incidents (bombings, killings, etc) were even covered much in the news. I only knew about the bombings in Baghdad because someone who does not work in the media linked to stories about it on social media.

So often, it may be that people simply do not know.

Fortune
07-04-16, 04:04 PM
Just deleted by accident most of an extremely long post. Maybe that's a good thing and i should.just give up on this rather controversial topic. I really want to hear your thoughts though. I was writing about the baghdad bombings yesterday where 165 people at least were killed.

This isn't a memorial post. I never make memorial threads or whatever they are called and I'm sure if I did a lot of people would show their support and empathise. To be honest though that isn't my real.concern. my real.question is: Does anyone really care?

Do you care? Do you care about the 165 people who died yesterday and the hundreds of people who have died in Iraq this year and in the rest of the middle east as much as you cared about the people who died in the Orlando or paris shootings or in the air port attacks in Belgium? What about the recent attacks in turkey and in Dhaka? Did they register? Did they leave an impression on anyone? Did they cause sadness or outrage in anyone? If you are perfectly honest?


Incidentally, I do care, and when I hear about this kind of stuff it does make me sad and often angry. I do not care for the fact that the media doesn't cover this stuff as thoroughly as tragedies in the US or Europe, nor for the fact that many people in the US do not seem to care very much about these events when they do know about them.

aeon
07-04-16, 04:38 PM
Do you care?

No, I do not.

Do you care about the 165 people who died yesterday and the hundreds of people who have died in Iraq this year and in the rest of the middle east as much as you cared about the people who died in the Orlando or paris shootings or in the air port attacks in Belgium?

Yes, which is to say, I did not care at all, for any of them.

What about the recent attacks in turkey and in Dhaka? Did they register? Did they leave an impression on anyone? Did they cause sadness or outrage in anyone? If you are perfectly honest?

Nope.

I could be wrong but it seems to me that somehow a fatal terrorist attack in the US or in Europe generates a much different reaction to a fatal terrorist attack in, I'm just going to say it, the non-western world.

I think you are right.

I really don't know but I'm not sure I like it. It worries me. Isn't suffering universal? Does an arabic woman clutching her surviving children and crying for the ones who died deserve less empathy? At that moment does it really matter who she is or where she is from? And is there anything more equalising than death?

Yes, no one deserves anything, no, and no, respectively.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this or if I really have a point. Maybe I'm just a bit sore these days. Maybe I'm being unfair or unreasonable. I don't expect anyone to force themselves to feel.empathy for the sake of equality or fairness..if you don't feel it you don't feel it and that's that.

And I don’t, for any of them.

I'd really like to point out though that we've all been extremely lucky to have been born or live in a place where a violent death, more specifically a death through terrorism, still makes a difference, where the world still takes note and empathises and mourns for you.

I don’t believe in luck, so I don’t agree with you on this point.

---

When I was young, I had an experience where no one helped me, even though it was clear I was in need of help, even though I asked for help.

That experienced changed me. From then on, I had no faith in institutions, whether that be police, or nation, or religion. And so too did my empathy die for others who were not directly connected to me. I no longer cared.

I don’t know if I should feel self-conscious about that or not. I do wonder and think about it, but in the end, I know I don’t feel anything at all, and that is my truth, no matter how it might be judged.


Cheers,
Ian


p.s. I should say I care in an intellectual way, but I don’t feel anything emotionally.

BellaVita
07-04-16, 04:55 PM
Moderator note:
I know these events are sad and tragic, but I must remind everyone here about ADDF guidelines which prohibit political discussion.

Please keep that in mind when posting.

Thank you.

Little Missy
07-04-16, 05:10 PM
I have to be dismissively logical with this stuff. There is nothing that I, me, can do about any of it.

Whatever happens is always on the radio, television, and newspapers the moment it happens. It really is.

The intensification of the attacks are extremely concerning to me.

Corina86
07-04-16, 06:33 PM
For me, it's all except 4. I don't think anyone deserves such a tragic death and I know most people in all countries are actually innocent.

But, otherwise, yes:
1. if it happens in Western Europe, it might happen here; also I might end up being a tourist and getting caught in such an attack one day.
2. yes, I feel sorry for everyone stuck in conflict areas, but I have no clue how to stop those conflicts, so I guess I do accept it more easily than I should, just like I accept illness or natural calamities- I can't prevent them so I'm just happy it's not happening to me, I hope it will never happen to me and I try not to worry about it, since worrying doesn't help.
3. it's also a cultural thing- we want to be like Americans or west Europeans, we listen to their music, read their book, wear what they wear and get caught up in their drama. Most of what's on tv is a plagiarism of their shows. So, yes, when American tv is rightfully flooded with stories about 9/11, so is Romanian television, making it seem like the problem is closer to home than it really is. Not to mention there's an even more cynical reason for this: it's easier for televisions to make a big deal out of stuff happening in the US, for example, because everything is caught on camera, so there's plenty of footage and the stories are much easier to translate from English than from, let's say, Kurdish or something.

Another sad truth is: we don't really about any of the deaths. It's just drama; we won't do anything about it, we won't help, we might blame the victims, make it all about ourselves, the press will use it to sell advertising space and the politicians will try to use it to gain votes. Then it dies out until the next big thing comes along. It's easier worrying about and debating about issues that are vague and far away from you, rather than fix whatever is wrong in your own back yard.

But if you're on the Internet long enough, you'll see that everyone is doing the same thing. Most are sticking to their race, religious group or ethnic group, not just Europeans. It's not right, but it's common.

sarahsweets
07-05-16, 02:56 AM
We humans are self absorbed. We think of ourselves and loved ones first. The world we live in is a 24 hour news feed and its killing me. I have empathy for these poor souls. But when hearing news like this, my first thought is how it would affect me and my loved ones. I picture what I would do and how I would handle it. I say a little prayer to my spiritual whatever and try and live my best life, one foot in front of the other.
I think the fact that they are so far away makes it easier to put it on the shelf. The culture is different, so for me, it means its harder to understand what its all about.
I dont have to worry about my daughters getting harmed on their way to school the way these people might.

I think our instincts are to protect ourselves and loved ones. Sometimes that means blocking out the bad.