View Full Version : What is more important for children with ADHD?


mildadhd
07-15-16, 08:59 PM
What is more important for children with ADHD, healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary caregiver or ADHD medication?




m

anonymouslyadd
07-15-16, 09:00 PM
What is more important for children with ADHD, healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary caregiver or ADHD medication?




m
They can always go on medication but will never get their youth back. You can't provide a pill for secure attachment with a parent. I don't have any kids, though.:eyebrow:

namazu
07-15-16, 09:36 PM
What is more important for children with ADHD, healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary caregiver or ADHD medication?

They are not mutually exclusive.

Kids with healthy attachment relationships with primary caregivers who struggle to stay safe, to learn, to interact with family and friends...may also benefit from medications, and conversely, medications to treat ADHD may actually improve relationships with primary caregivers. I don't know of anyone who would advocate that medication be a substitute for good parenting and good intrafamilial relationships. Good parents sometimes turn to ADHD medications when they are desperate to help their children and nothing else has worked.

mildadhd
07-15-16, 09:59 PM
I agree that a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver and ADHD medication, both, help people who have ADHD.

Which is more important, a healthy attachment relationship and ADHD medication?

Which one do we consider first, between the two, in regards to treatment?




m

namazu
07-15-16, 10:42 PM
I agree that a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver and ADHD medication, both, help people who have ADHD.

Which is more important, a healthy attachment relationship and ADHD medication?

Which one do we consider first, between the two, in regards to treatment?

I don't consider a healthy attachment relationship to be a form of "treatment" for ADHD. It's something that should happen in all families, regardless of whether or not a kid has ADHD. (Is it important? Absolutely...but for reasons not specific to ADHD.)

It's kind of like asking, "Which is more important, making sure your kids don't starve, or ADHD medication?" Doing something as basic as providing food is a necessary part of taking care of a child (if one that's not always a given) -- but it can hardly be considered a "treatment" for ADHD.

If the kids are starving (for food or for love/security), then there are other issues besides ADHD that need to be addressed.

Impromptu_DTour
07-15-16, 11:15 PM
I agree that a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver and ADHD medication, both, help people who have ADHD.

Which is more important, a healthy attachment relationship and ADHD medication?

Which one do we consider first, between the two, in regards to treatment?




m

Not every child with ADHD has a qualifying need to be on medication, however all children need healthy emotional attachments, parent / child bonding, security and trust. Without this, major issues can develop on the subconscious and psycho/emotive level, from mood, thought, anxiety, and even personality disorders.

In my experience, much of my triggers stem from emotional responses, and from my knowledge, ADHD is very deeply affected, triggered and remedied by emotional catalysts. For me, Serotonin and Dopamine are major opponents, or allies.

So without a strong root in healthy emotional attachments and a robust and healthy emotional/social intelligence, bonding and trust, quality coping mechanisms and regulatory skillsets are likely going to suffer greatly, which will only exacerbate just about every ADHD symptom that an individual could painfully experience. If a child needs to be on medication then a child needs to be on medication, but the personal development that a child will get from a healthy emotional relationship with their parents will be irreplaceable, and offer a lifetime of successes with their ADHD and related issues.

In any event, in the "perfect case scenario", medication is intended to be a temporary fix (of course it doesnt always work out that way for a variety of reasons, the big two are that symptoms are very strong, and the time needed too modify provocating patterns is to much of a commitment and challenge.. thought to be impractical to try and invest in curving), while deeper more complicated issues are remedied through other methods such as behavioral modification or psychotherapy. Often medication therefore is prescribed to balance the psycho/emotional environments to make those fixes faster, and longer lasting. So while a far greater importance will always be placed on fixing the root of the problem, meds are often prescribed first, but should ideally only be prescribed as a temporary measure (hopefully) until either the underlying issue is resolved, or better skillsets and coping mechanisms are developed to take over where the medication is working.

While NOT being on medication (if a child needs it) during this critical developmental stage, for behavioral and developmental reasons, would be very challenging.. it would be devastating to a child's personal, emotional and psychological development on a far more permanent and global level to not have that connection. Everything from personal identity, self image, thoughts and beliefs, moral compass, and even locus of control.. literally a roll of the dice with the odds very stacked against the kid.

IMO, Parents in today's society don't spend the same time with their children anymore, and when they do its not the same quality of time spent. Its not their fault, *shrug* the culture is different. People have the opportunity to do more with their lives than ever before. And Society expects different things from us because of those changes. Much has changed since the last 50 years, quality of life for families and individuals being one of them. People are preoccupied with juggling more issues and stresses. Often individuals are the first generations of their families attempting to do something different then generations of their families had done prior.. such as get a degree, start a career, begin their own business, move to another country, etc.. and as adults with children, they themselves don't have mentors who have undertaken these major role changes. So those stresses and preoccupations steal away from the time their children need with them.

Surprise surprise, mental health and emotional disorders in children in America is greater than it ever has been.

iDTour

mildadhd
07-16-16, 08:45 AM
I don't consider a healthy attachment relationship to be a form of "treatment" for ADHD. It's something that should happen in all families, regardless of whether or not a kid has ADHD. (Is it important? Absolutely...but for reasons not specific to ADHD.)

It's kind of like asking, "Which is more important, making sure your kids don't starve, or ADHD medication?" Doing something as basic as providing food is a necessary part of taking care of a child (if one that's not always a given) -- but it can hardly be considered a "treatment" for ADHD.

If the kids are starving (for food or for love/security), then there are other issues besides ADHD that need to be addressed.

Children who have ADHD, struggle with self-esteem issues.

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver is the first treatment factor for children/families who have ADHD.



m

mildadhd
07-16-16, 08:53 AM
A primary care-giver who is aware that their child struggles with self-esteem issues, plays a critical role in the treatment of ADHD.




m

Lunacie
07-16-16, 11:30 AM
Children who have ADHD, struggle with self-esteem issues.

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver is the first treatment factor for children/families who have ADHD.



m

So your poll question was misleading. What you really were asking if anyone agrees with your opinion.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 12:13 PM
So your poll question was misleading. What you really were asking if anyone agrees with your opinion.

Your attempt to derail a good and completely honest thread discussion?

This thread discussion is so important in regards to our children's ADHD treatment, it should be a sticky in the ADDForums parenting and treatment section.



m

namazu
07-16-16, 12:41 PM
Children who have ADHD, struggle with self-esteem issues.

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver is the first treatment factor for children/families who have ADHD.
Some children already have healthy attachment relationships with at least one primary caregiver at the time they are diagnosed with ADHD (and whether or not they have self-esteem issues).

It makes no sense to try to "treat" ADHD with a healthy attachment relationship, when that healthy attachment relationship is already present and the ADHD exists anyway.

What would you suggest for treatment in those cases?

mildadhd
07-16-16, 12:54 PM
Some children already have healthy attachment relationships with at least one primary caregiver at the time they are diagnosed with ADHD (and whether or not they have self-esteem issues).

It makes no sense to try to "treat" ADHD with a healthy attachment relationship, when that healthy attachment relationship is already present and the ADHD exists anyway.

What would you suggest for treatment in those cases?

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver aware that their child has self esteem issues, and possibly ADHD medication (medication and other treatment factors depend on individual circumstances).



m

sarahsweets
07-16-16, 01:17 PM
In any event, in the "perfect case scenario", medication is intended to be a temporary fix (of course it doesnt always work out that way for a variety of reasons, the big two are that symptoms are very strong, and the time needed too modify provocating patterns is to much of a commitment and challenge.. thought to be impractical to try and invest in curving), while deeper more complicated issues are remedied through other methods such as behavioral modification or psychotherapy. Often medication therefore is prescribed to balance the psycho/emotional environments to make those fixes faster, and longer lasting. So while a far greater importance will always be placed on fixing the root of the problem, meds are often prescribed first, but should ideally only be prescribed as a temporary measure (hopefully) until either the underlying issue is resolved, or better skillsets and coping mechanisms are developed to take over where the medication is working.

Im not sure why you would say medication should be temporary unless you have had that experience with your kids. My son was medicated at age 4, diagnosed at age 3.5. This much is certain: without medication he wouldnt have made it, he would have missed the fundamentals that set him up for learning. He wouldnt have had the accomodations and been able to utilize those accomodations.(sp) I dont believe any parent who thoroughly thinks about medicating their child believes that meds are the only interventions needed. I know I didnt. I knew it was a 'family' disorder in that (aside from us having adhd as well) the family had to learn better ways of dealing with him. This was in the old days before google was huge so I spent many hours at the library with the trusty old card catalogue.

My son decided when he was 16 to stop taking meds. He didnt really have a reason but I cant force a 16 year old to take meds. College has been hard. He is so smart but distractible. He recently resumed a trial of meds again so we will see where that goes.

IMO, Parents in today's society don't spend the same time with their children anymore, and when they do its not the same quality of time spent. Its not their fault, *shrug* the culture is different. People have the opportunity to do more with their lives than ever before. And Society expects different things from us because of those changes. Much has changed since the last 50 years, quality of life for families and individuals being one of them. People are preoccupied with juggling more issues and stresses.

This I agree with. I think my husband and I do a pretty good job with our kids, I am sure some people here can vouch for that as well. All I know is that love conquers all. When any sh*t has gone down, its love that righted it. When the kids felt like they were nobodies, love lifted them up.
When they felt ostracized and isolated, it was our arms they ran to. My son is 20 now left yesterday to watch his GF in a scottish highland dance competition. He kissed myself and my husband on the head and told us he loved us. We couldnt ask for more.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 01:38 PM
How would we know in general, if the primary care-giver is aware (or not) the child has self esteem issues, and, the child has a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver (or not), unless addressed?





m

namazu
07-16-16, 01:42 PM
How would we know in general, if the primary care-giver is aware (or not) the child has self esteem issues, and, the child has a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver, unless the factors are addressed?
Any psychiatrist or psychologist evaluating a child for ADHD should assess the family situation and take a thorough medical, family, developmental, educational, and social history. That should cover it...

mildadhd
07-16-16, 02:26 PM
Any psychiatrist or psychologist evaluating a child for ADHD should assess the family situation and take a thorough medical, family, developmental, educational, and social history. That should cover it...

So you agree?


m

namazu
07-16-16, 02:28 PM
So you agree?
With what?

mildadhd
07-16-16, 02:36 PM
With what?

Healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is an essential treatment factor for children who have ADHD.





m

namazu
07-16-16, 02:39 PM
Healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is an essential treatment factor for children who have ADHD.
I would simply say that "a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is essential for children".

mildadhd
07-16-16, 03:01 PM
I would simply say that "a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is essential for children".

Focusing on children with ADHD and ADHD treatment factors.

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver is an especially important treatment factor for children who suffer from low self esteem, due to ADHD.




m

sarahsweets
07-16-16, 03:16 PM
Focusing on children with ADHD and ADHD treatment factors.

A healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver is an especially important treatment factor for children who suffer from low self esteem, due to ADHD.
Especially important yes, but to consider it treatment is what I wonder about. Does that mean children without adhd are not getting the same treatment as their adhd siblings? Which would mean that children without adhd do not need the same healthy attachments?

Lunacie
07-16-16, 03:29 PM
As a parent and grandparent I've had a pretty good and healthy relationship attachment with my daughter and my grandkids.

And that's in spite of my having ADHD and GAD myself, and in spite of all of them having ADHD and/or Autism and Anxiety and Depression.

Studies have shown that being the parent of a child with any of those diagnoses can leave the parent with something much like PTSD.

My father had PTSD (WWII) and didn't form a healthy relationship attachment with any of his children. I was determined to do better.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 04:20 PM
Especially important yes, but to consider it treatment is what I wonder about. Does that mean children without adhd are not getting the same treatment as their adhd siblings? Which would mean that children without adhd do not need the same healthy attachments?

Children with ADHD have self esteem issues.

Healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver helps treat children with ADHD associated self esteem's issues, before the age any ADHD medication is an option.


m

Little Missy
07-16-16, 06:44 PM
Children with ADHD have self esteem issues.

Healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver helps treat children with ADHD associated self esteem's issues, before the age any ADHD medication is an option.


m

So that is an opinion, right?

mildadhd
07-16-16, 07:26 PM
So that is an opinion, right?


You know any human children with ADHD (or without) that do not require healthy attachment relationship?


m

mildadhd
07-16-16, 07:37 PM
In my opinion..

Everyone agrees that children require a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver, in general.

Everyone agrees that children with ADHD have self esteem issues.

Everyone agrees that a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver helps children with low self esteem issues.

Not sure if anyone is disagreeing or what they are disagrees about?



m

sarahsweets
07-16-16, 07:46 PM
In my opinion..

Everyone agrees that children require a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver, in general.

Everyone agrees that children with ADHD have self esteem issues.

Everyone agrees that a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver helps children with low self esteem issues.

Not sure if anyone is disagreeing or what they are disagrees about?



m

I think its semantics. Calling a healthy parental attachment relationship treatment is what has me stuck.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 08:00 PM
I think its semantics. Calling a healthy parental attachment relationship treatment is what has me stuck.

Does it make sense that children with ADHD suffer from self esteem issues and that primary care-givers aware that their children suffer from self esteem issues can help their children, by accommodating their children with a compassionate unconditional attachment relationship to meet the child's individual needs?




m

Lunacie
07-16-16, 08:13 PM
I think its semantics. Calling a healthy parental attachment relationship treatment is what has me stuck.

Does it make sense that children with ADHD suffer from self esteem issues and that primary care-givers aware that their children suffer from self esteem issues can help their children, by accommodating their children with a compassionate unconditional attachment relationship to meet the child's individual needs?

m

I just call it "parenting." To me, "treatment" generally means medical care.


Also, I don't care which is "more important." If both are helpful, then both should be in place.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 08:27 PM
..Also, I don't care which is "more important." If both are helpful, then both should be in place.

I agree, both are important treatment factors.

Also, the fact is that the parenting adult(s) aware that accommodating a unconditional relationship between themselve(s) and their children who have ADHD, can be help treat their children's self esteem issues, before the age medication is even an option.


m

Lunacie
07-16-16, 08:36 PM
I agree, both are important treatment factors.

Also, the fact is that the parenting adult(s) aware that accommodating a unconditional relationship between themselve (parenting adult) and the their child who has ADHD, can be help treat their children's self esteem issues, before the age medication is even an option.


m

I don't know what you're agreeing with since I didn't say anything about parenting being "treatment."

Doctors are getting better about diagnosing Autism in toddlers. But most parents don't know their child has ADHD until they are old enough for meds.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 08:50 PM
I don't know what you're agreeing with since I didn't say anything about parenting being "treatment."

Doctors are getting better about diagnosing Autism in toddlers. But most parents don't know their child has ADHD until they are old enough for meds.

I do not recommend waiting til the age when medication is treatment option, to help treat children with self esteem issues possibly due to ADHD.

My mother knew their was something different about me early in life. I am sure many other parents also recognize some differences about their children in early life.

A healthy attachment relationship is essential for all children anyway, why not unconditionally accommodate children that may have self esteem issues possibly related to ADHD?






m

sarahsweets
07-16-16, 09:10 PM
I do not recommend waiting til the age when medication is treatment option, to help treat children with self esteem issues possibly due to ADHD.

My mother knew their was something different about me early in life. I am sure many other parents also recognize some differences about their children in early life.

A healthy attachment relationship is essential for all children anyway, why not unconditionally accommodate children that may have self esteem issues possibly related to ADHD?

But why should this be an adhd specific issue? ALL children need and deserve what you are talking about.





m[/QUOTE]

Little Missy
07-16-16, 09:14 PM
I do not recommend waiting til the age when medication is treatment option, to help treat children with self esteem issues possibly due to ADHD.

My mother knew their was something different about me early in life. I am sure many other parents also recognize some differences about their children in early life.

A healthy attachment relationship is essential for all children anyway, why not unconditionally accommodate children that may have self esteem issues possibly related to ADHD?





m

So, you believe that you were not unconditionally accommodated for properly as a child?

mildadhd
07-16-16, 09:21 PM
But why should this be an adhd specific issue? ALL children need and deserve what you are talking about.





m

Healthy accommodating attachment relationship helps specifically treat children with self esteem issues due to ADHD.

Who would be better than the primary care-giver(s) to help treat self esteem issues related to ADHD temperament?


m

Little Missy
07-16-16, 09:22 PM
Healthy accommodating attachment relationship helps specifically treat children with self esteem issues due to ADHD temperament.

Who would be better than the primary care-givers to help treat self esteem issues related to ADHD temperament?


m

Is this the method you use for your own children?

mildadhd
07-16-16, 09:32 PM
Is this the method you use for your own children?

Yes, continually.



m

aeon
07-16-16, 09:41 PM
By definition, if a child has been diagnosed as ADHD, they are 4 years of age or older, so by that point,
primary development of attachment bonds is nearing an end.

Get them on the damned amphetamines already! :D

That way, their tiny brains will be ready for secondary development stages which are right around the corner.

Primary development of attachment bonds in the human being always occur before the diagnosis
of ADHD can be made, again, by definition.


Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
07-16-16, 09:42 PM
So, you believe that you were not unconditionally accommodated for properly as a child?

Yes and no.

My parents noticed differences, but admit that they where not aware enough of ADHD and associated self esteem issues, when I was younger.

That being said, they did try their best, based on what they where aware of. (As most primary care-givers do)

And when I got older, and they became more aware of the topics, openly encouraged me.

That meant the world to me, and still does.


m

Lunacie
07-16-16, 10:01 PM
I do not recommend waiting til the age when medication is treatment option, to help treat children with self esteem issues possibly due to ADHD.

My mother knew their was something different about me early in life. I am sure many other parents also recognize some differences about their children in early life.

A healthy attachment relationship is essential for all children anyway, why not unconditionally accommodate children that may have self esteem issues possibly related to ADHD?


m

I haven't seen any responses saying that children do not deserve unconditional love. They all do.

But I think we need to understand the root problems in order to provide the appropriate accommodations. Or meds.

mildadhd
07-16-16, 10:03 PM
The relationship with my father became so interested and encouraging, that his last words before he passed away where, "Show them Pooh" (in regards to the thread topics)

"Pooh" was my nickname, as in Winnie the Pooh.



m

mildadhd
07-16-16, 10:12 PM
By definition, if a child has been diagnosed as ADHD, they are 4 years of age or older, so by that point,
primary development of attachment bonds is nearing an end.

Get them on the damned amphetamines already! :D

That way, their tiny brains will be ready for secondary development stages which are right around the corner.

Primary development of attachment bonds in the human being always occur before the diagnosis
of ADHD can be made, again, by definition.


Cheers,
Ian



These facts in no way discredit the importance of a healthy attachment relationship in regards to treatment, before the age of 4, or, after the age of 4.

I am not arguing against treatment with ADHD medication for people who choose.

It is also a fact that a healthy attachment relationship can help treat an ADHD temperament and associated self esteem issues before the age of 4, before severity of ADHD is established.



m

aeon
07-17-16, 01:30 AM
These facts in no way discredit the importance of a healthy attachment relationship in regards to treatment, before the age of 4, or, after the age of 4.

Understood and agreed.

I am not arguing against treatment with ADHD medication for people who choose.

Also understood and agreed.

It is also a fact that a healthy attachment relationship can help treat an ADHD temperament and associated self esteem issues before the age of 4, before severity of ADHD is established.

No, this is not a fact, and is absolutely incorrect, because the diagnosis of ADHD cannot be made before the age of 4.

As such, there is no ADHD temperament to speak of, and you canít have associated self esteem issues if there is nothing to associate them with.


Cheers,
Ian

Donny997
07-17-16, 02:05 AM
I say secure attachment. But here's an argument for choosing medication: If what you mean by disturbed attachment is a child overly dependent on the parent, stuck in pleasure-seeking mode and having trouble maturing, then that's what you usually see with an ADHD child anyway, but the cause is neurobiology and not trauma. So medication might be more useful in this context where biology has a large impact regardless of environmental influences.

stef
07-17-16, 02:21 AM
If a parent though willingly treated the edhd with meds but was forever demanding and critical, it could create massive self esteem issues ( i am just inventing this scenario, i had no idea adhd existed growing up, nor did they, and my parents were incredibly supportive).

Donny997
07-17-16, 02:24 AM
No, this is not a fact, and is absolutely incorrect, because the diagnosis of ADHD cannot be made before the age of 4.

As such, there is no ADHD temperament to speak of, and you canít have associated self esteem issues if there is nothing to associate them with.

Hey Ian,

Just because it's not diagnosed before 4 doesn't mean there's not an ADHD Temperament and early signs. It just means the Temperament isn't always clear enough to make a diagnosis. If ADHD is caused by biology, then by definition it's temperamental, as that's all that Temperament means.

mildadhd
07-17-16, 02:24 AM
Understood and agreed.



Also understood and agreed.



No, this is not a fact, and is absolutely incorrect, because the diagnosis of ADHD cannot be made before the age of 4.

As such, there is no ADHD temperament to speak of, and you can’t have associated self esteem issues if there is nothing to associate them with.


Cheers,
Ian


Many people are born with a more sensitive ADHD temperament.

(I do not want to get all scientific and get this thread discussion removed from the parenting section. In the near future, I will post a more evidence based thread discussion in the science section, about how a more sensitive inherited temperament influences development before birth, after birth, at age 1, at age 2 and at age 3, and how all influence development at age of 4 (give or take) and after, in response to our differences of opinions.)




m

Donny997
07-17-16, 02:34 AM
I think some are confused about why the thead topic of relating ADD to insecure attachment as they are distinct. But they can appear similarly, so that an ADHD child can behave as if she/he weren't getting the attention they needed at home, even though that may not be the case. Conversely, having insecure attachment is immensely distracting for a child and can look like ADHD.

mildadhd
07-17-16, 03:26 AM
I think some are confused about why the thead topic of relating ADD to insecure attachment as they are distinct. But they can appear similarly, so that an ADHD child can behave as if she/he weren't getting the attention they needed at home, even though that may not be the case. Conversely, having insecure attachment is immensely distracting for a child and can look like ADHD.

Any possible solutions to the problem appreciated.


m

mildadhd
07-17-16, 03:38 AM
Heathy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver accommodated secretly, disguised with the instinct to play? :D






m

sarahsweets
07-17-16, 06:06 AM
This is the thing though:
All kids need good primary parental attachment.

Kids who dont get good primary parental attachment will do worse then their peers who do get it.

I believe the only way to raise a child is to re-enforce this attachment through love, action,meaning and time.
This is true for all kids. Even if the tempermental pre-diagnosis kid seems adhd, he or she should still get all the love and attention you would give your child anyhow.

Donny997
07-17-16, 10:22 AM
Any possible solutions to the problem appreciated.


m

I'm not really sure what you're asking... I thought you were posing a hypothetical scenario

Donny997
07-17-16, 10:31 AM
In real life I don't see it as an either/ or question... you can treat both.

mildadhd
07-17-16, 11:47 AM
In real life I don't see it as an either/ or question... you can treat both.


ADHD can be treated with both a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver and ADHD medication.

(They are both treatment options)

In your opinion, which is the most important treatment option between a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary caregiver and ADHD medication?



m

sarahsweets
07-17-16, 11:54 AM
Look, I mean no offense but are you purposefully being obtuse? People keep giving their opinions specifically that attachment is needed by all kids and you keep re-phrasing the question. Are you trying to be contrary to hammer home a point that I am missing? Anyone else scratching their heads on this one?

mildadhd
07-17-16, 12:06 PM
Look, I mean no offense but are you purposefully being obtuse? People keep giving their opinions specifically that attachment is needed by all kids and you keep re-phrasing the question. Are you trying to be contrary to hammer home a point that I am missing? Anyone else scratching their heads on this one?

In my opinion, healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver, and, ADHD medication are both very powerful "tools" to treat ADHD.

In my opinion, the differences in opinions in this thread discussion seem to be, that some people do not think a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary caregiver is a "tool" to treat and improve the lives of children suffering from ADHD.

I think a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is the most important treatment "tool", even before ADHD medication option.






m

mildadhd
07-17-16, 12:51 PM
When posting this thread I did not anticipate that other members would not consider a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver a treatment "tool" for ADHD.

So I started another thread to discuss specifically that question, as to not derail the comparison between healthy attachment relationship and ADHD medication in this thread discussion.


http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1823605#post1823605



m

Donny997
07-17-16, 12:55 PM
ADHD can be treated with both a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary care-giver and ADHD medication.

(They are both treatment options)

In your opinion, which is the most important treatment option between a healthy attachment relationship with at least one primary caregiver and ADHD medication?



m

Where did you read secure attachment treats ADD? That's interesting but I'm skeptical.

In my opinion it depends on what you're looking to treat...

For emotional health, well-being, healthy capacity for relationships, and a confident personality: secure attachment relationship

For an awake mind that can communicate efficiently, retain information, learn better, etc.: ADHD medication.

One is more an emotional issue and the other more a cognitive issue, although those lines can often be blurred and bleed into each other I think.

mildadhd
07-17-16, 01:56 PM
Healthy emotional health awakens the mind..

In turn..

Awake mind strengthens emotional health..

In turn..

Healthy emotional health awakens the mind..

In turn..

Awake mind strengthens emotional health...

(Continued) ("circular causation")


I invited my son to hang out today.

Great question. I will reply more.



m

Lunacie
07-17-16, 05:02 PM
In my opinion, healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver, and, ADHD medication are both very powerful "tools" to treat ADHD.

In my opinion, the differences in opinions in this thread discussion seem to be, that some people do not think a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary caregiver is a "tool" to treat and improve the lives of children suffering from ADHD.

I think a healthy attachment relationship with at least one aware primary care-giver is the most important treatment "tool", even before ADHD medication option.


m

If both are helpful, why does one need to be more important than the other? :scratch:

I think a good parent/child relationship is as important as food and shelter and that stuff.

They are all "needs" in my opinion, not "treatment."

aeon
07-17-16, 05:19 PM
(I do not want to get all scientific

All else is witchcraft, manipulation, and fantasyland.

Iíll make sure to avoid in the future.

Science is acceptable.

Lack thereof is a return to a time before the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Reason.

Why anyone would make the effort to be otherwise today I donít know other than ulterior motives.

Especially on an ADHD support forum, it is important to ďget all scientific.Ē


Suspicious,
Ian

Cyllya
07-17-16, 05:59 PM
It's a bit like saying that adequate food (as opposed to making your child malnourished or even starve to death) is an ADHD treatment.

I don't think something should be considered a tool to treat ADHD when it's a basic biological need for everyone. Healthy attachment with at least one caregiver is a basic biological need for all children. Not having that attachment at a young age will cause psychological damage to all children.

Certainly, I think a kid with untreated ADHD and good parents is better off than a kid will medicated ADHD and crappy parents. However, that's a false dichotomy, especially since the age range where poor attachment causes the most damage is also the age range where ADHD meds are not an option.

Instead of attachments generally, are you actually thinking of attachment-based therapy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment-based_therapy_(children)), which is treatment for kids who already have damage from past inadequate attachment? Or parent management training (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parent_management_training)?

mildadhd
07-17-16, 08:42 PM
Sorry wrong thread.


m

aeon
07-17-16, 09:21 PM
Certainly, I think a kid with untreated ADHD and good parents is better off than a kid will medicated ADHD and crappy parents. However, that's a false dichotomy, especially since the age range where poor attachment causes the most damage is also the age range where ADHD meds are not an option.

And they are not an option because there is no ADHD at that age.

+1 on your spotting of the false dichotomy. :goodpost:


Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
07-17-16, 09:46 PM
Aeon,

Developmental issues related to ADHD do not begin at age 4. You very recently posted about the critical attachement relationship period of development occurring before the age of 4.

By definition, if a child has been diagnosed as ADHD, they are 4 years of age or older, so by that point, primary development of attachment bonds is nearing an end.

Get them on the damned amphetamines already! :D

That way, their tiny brains will be ready for secondary development stages which are right around the corner.

Primary development of attachment bonds in the human being always occur before the diagnosis
of ADHD can be made, again, by definition.


Cheers,
Ian




m

aeon
07-17-16, 10:18 PM
Developmental issues related to ADHD do not begin at age 4.

But because ADHD cannot be diagnosed before that age, those developmental issues cannot be related to ADHD before that age, by definition.

As such, they are only related to ADHD at age 4 and later.

Such issues may begin earlier, but they are not related to ADHD at that point.


Cheers,
Ian

namazu
07-17-16, 10:41 PM
But because ADHD cannot be diagnosed before that age, those developmental issues cannot be related to ADHD before that age, by definition.

As such, they are only related to ADHD at age 4 and later.

Such issues may begin earlier, but they are not related to ADHD at that point.
I disagree. It requires some advanced pedantry/semantic hair-splitting to claim that developmental issues appearing before age 4 in a child who will eventually be diagnosed with ADHD are "unrelated to ADHD" simply because a formal diagnosis is not (usually) made until later.

No, we generally can't be certain of the ADHD/relationship to it at earlier timepoints, but that doesn't imply that earlier behaviors/temperamental factors are necessarily and entirely "unrelated" or unconnected. It just means that our understanding of ADHD and its precursors is currently limited.

Earlier intervention could potentially be a good thing.

That said, ADHD does not appear to be a problem of poor attachment, so I don't see how being super-duper attached to one's infant/toddler, beyond the basics of what's required to be a good parent, would help.

aeon
07-17-16, 10:48 PM
I disagree. It requires some advanced pedantry/semantic hair-splitting to claim that developmental issues appearing before age 4 in a child who will eventually be diagnosed with ADHD are "unrelated to ADHD" simply because a formal diagnosis is not (usually) made until later. No, we generally can't be certain of the ADHD/relationship to it at earlier timepoints, but that doesn't imply that earlier behaviors/temperamental factors are necessarily and entirely "unrelated" or unconnected. It just means that our understanding of ADHD and its precursors is currently limited.

I agree completely.

And to be fair, I am being pedantic about this because lack of rigorous thought in the presentation of this idea has resulted in assertion of claimed facts which do not honor the science, and on an ADHD support forum, that is misleading and has the potential to lead to other divergences from what is known and clinically-verifiable, which is of no help or support to anyone.


Thanks,
Ian

mildadhd
07-17-16, 11:02 PM
But because ADHD cannot be diagnosed before that age, those developmental issues cannot be related to ADHD before that age, by definition.

As such, they are only related to ADHD at age 4 and later.

Such issues may begin earlier, but they are not related to ADHD at that point.


Cheers,
Ian

A big reason why ADHD cannot be diagnosed until age 4-7, is because it is normal for all young people to have traits associated with ADHD, during early childhood before the age of 4-7.


..Instead of asking why a disorder or illness develops, we ask why a fully self-motivated and self-regulated human personality does not.


-Gabor Mate M.D., "Scattered", p 42.

m

mildadhd
07-17-16, 11:52 PM
That said, ADHD does not appear to be a problem of poor attachment, so I don't see how being super-duper attached to one's infant/toddler, beyond the basics of what's required to be a good parent, would help.

Children who have a more sensitive temperament require more than the basic accommodations.



m

sarahsweets
07-18-16, 03:37 AM
I feel like Im running in circles here but my hang up is the word 'treatment'. I just dont see how attatchment and the like are treatments for adhd and why the two questions you posed seem mutually exclusive.

mildadhd
07-19-16, 02:34 AM
I feel like Im running in circles here but my hang up is the word 'treatment'. I just dont see how attatchment and the like are treatments for adhd and why the two questions you posed seem mutually exclusive.

SarahSweets,

Like I mentioned already in this thread, I did not anticipate other members like you, Lunacie, and Aeon not agreeing that healthy attachment relationship was not a treatment factor. And because you keep demanding attachment relationship is not treatment, makes it really hard have the actual intended discussion with members who do think attachment is a treatment factor.

Please do not give the impression that I am against meds anymore. I keep saying I am not against meds and think both are powerful treatment factors.

I keep saying that I wanted to learn more about treatment before the age medication was an option.

Cannot take meds til at least 4-7, leaving a big gap in discussion about treatment during the first few years of life neglected.




m

mildadhd
07-19-16, 02:47 AM
I feel like Im running in circles here but my hang up is the word 'treatment'. I just dont see how attatchment and the like are treatments for adhd and why the two questions you posed seem mutually exclusive.

Also I tried to address the hang up about the word treatment differences in another thread, to try to save this one, but I guess we got to discuss what was not intended as the actual thread discussion, in this thread.

Also I am just not getting the argument that attachment relationship is so essential for development, that it could not be a treatment factor?


m

namazu
07-19-16, 02:57 AM
I keep saying that I wanted to learn more about treatment before the age medication was an option.

Cannot take meds til at least 4-7, leaving a big gap in discussion about treatment during the first few years of life neglected.
I think many of us may have been confused about your intent, since you mentioned medication in the poll and the OP and gave the impression that these were somehow "competing" treatments.

If you wanted to discuss treatment of ADHD symptoms prior to age 4, then there's no real need to bring up medications.

Let's forget for a moment about whether attachment is a kind of "treatment" or not. I think everyone on the thread has agreed that it's important for development -- like food and shelter are for all children.

What specific things do you believe parents can do in the early years (in terms of attachment) to treat their children's early ADHD symptoms or to accommodate sensitive temperaments? For example, what would you do differently with a child who seemed to have a "sensitive temperament" than with a child who didn't seem extra-sensitive?

mildadhd
07-19-16, 03:06 AM
I think many of us may have been confused about your intent, since you mentioned medication in the poll and the OP and gave the impression that these were somehow "competing" treatments.

If you wanted to discuss treatment of ADHD symptoms prior to age 4, then there's no real need to bring up medications.
Ji
Let's forget for a moment about whether attachment is a kind of "treatment" or not. I think everyone on the thread has agreed that it's important for development -- like food and shelter are for all children.

What specific things do you believe parents can do in the early years (in terms of attachment or other things) to treat their children's early ADHD symptoms or to accommodate sensitive temperaments? (And what do you mean by "sensitive temperament"? I've seen lots of different definitions of this.)

You keep mentioning essential attachment, food and shelter.

Do you think food is a treatment factor for diabetes?

This is a primarily a ADHD forum, not a diabetes forum.

As certain food/diet is treatment for a diabetic.

There are certain attachment relationship approaches that help treat ADHD.

Could you imagine if food was not consider part of treatment discussion for diabetes, and everyone was told that what they eat does not matter, we do not need to know that, all we need to know is to take the super duper insulin?

(My guess is that you will close this thread based on the fact that food is not the opening thread topic, even though you and others asked the question)




m

namazu
07-19-16, 03:11 AM
You keep mentioning attachment food and shelter.
The reason I mention all of these together is because I believe they are baseline requirements for healthy development in all children, regardless of temperament or other factors. I am not interested in derailing your thread with a discussion of malnutrition or homelessness (though these would certainly be detrimental to development).

I do believe dietary modifications can help treat diabetes (which usually develops from mid-childhood to young adulthood, at least for Type I diabetes), because there are obvious connections between diet and blood sugar. For people with Type I diabetes, insulin is also critical, and diet and insulin must be managed together carefully. If this were a diabetes forum, I would expect people to discuss specifics instead of saying over and over "food is so important!" without elaborating.

The connections between parental attachment and ADHD-related executive function impairments are not as obvious to me, but I will gladly listen if you will explain.

There are certain attachment relationship approaches that help treat ADHD. You keep saying that attachment is important, but you haven't mentioned what these specific attachment relationship approaches are, or what the evidence is that they improve symptoms of ADHD.

Telling us about these approaches might be a good place to begin the discussion that you say you want to have.

For example, are there certain kinds of play or soothing techniques that are especially beneficial for young children who will eventually go on to develop ADHD? How are they different from "ordinary" play or soothing techniques?

namazu
07-19-16, 03:23 AM
MODERATOR NOTE: Thread closed at OP's request.