View Full Version : ADD and no ABILITY to do what needs to be done.


john2100
09-14-16, 08:02 AM
Hi,

I was diagnosed with ADD. I was on and off medication for a while.
I see very little difference while on medication and off medication at this point. At first it was great but now after years, i might just be off of it.


My biggest problem is this :

I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE,BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON I CANT FORCE MYSELF TO DO IT. ONLY A REAL DEADLINE WILL FORCE ME TO ACTION.

I would sit there , knowing it needs to be done, but unable to act for whatever reason . Once i start due to deadline , it is easier ,but what is it that is blocking my action even if there is will and motivation?

thanks for any help.

Toss4n
09-14-16, 09:03 AM
Hi,

I was diagnosed with ADD. I was on and off medication for a while.
I see very little difference while on medication and off medication at this point. At first it was great but now after years, i might just be off of it.


My biggest problem is this :

I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE,BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON I CANT FORCE MYSELF TO DO IT. ONLY A REAL DEADLINE WILL FORCE ME TO ACTION.

I would sit there , knowing it needs to be done, but unable to act for whatever reason . Once i start due to deadline , it is easier ,but what is it that is blocking my action even if there is will and motivation?

thanks for any help.
I am exactly like you, but medication has definitely made everything easier. Didn't help me at all in the beginning, but now after a couple of months I am noticing a tendency not to overthink what needs to be done, and just do it. What medication are you on ? Have you tried different kinds? There is also something called chronic procrastination, that in my mind should be considered a mental disorder as it ruins peoples lives, but the only thing the Drs recommend is cognitive behavioural therapy (I haven't started yet, but hoping it will help me overcome the issues my ADHD has caused me over the years).

Other things you might want to try are magnesium (say if the procrastination is due to some form of anxiety), supplementing with b-vitamins (active forms if you are unsure if you are suffering from some sort of enzymatic deficiency), vitamin C, vitamin D, and of course l-methionine (raises s-adenosyl-l-methionine levels in the brain), meditation, yoga, working out, etc. Oh almost forgot about l-tyrosine and l-theanine (both are good supplements to take with stimulants).

Turning off my inner voice has been key and it just might help you as well. Still suffer from some issues that need to be resolved, but these take time and I am already much better.

Just keep your hopes up and remember that retraining a broken brain takes a long time (the pathways built by your ADHD-brain are very different from what they could have been, and thus it takes time to reprogram).

john2100
09-14-16, 07:16 PM
Thanks, I tried all kind of medication at various doses ,manufactures and even brand name.All this in past 4 years.

My first was concerta. It worked great first and second day , I did what needed to be done without thinking about it. No blocks in my mind. After 1 month, it had no effect.

Tried ritalin , no effect just some energy boost.

Tried vyvanse, it made me mentally slow,total brain fog.

Tried nuvigil, total brain fog,headache.

Tried focalin , stomach pain that would never stop.

Tried adderal XR, IR, from brand to generic. The best results were 1-3rd month.After that that effectiveness would go down even with increases dose and 1month brake from stimulants.I still feel adderall little bit in my system , but it has maybe 20% effect comparing to first month on it. Now at 15mg 2x a day. sometimes even 40mg a day of IR in 3 smaller doses.

Also while on oxy and hydro-codone, I just did what needed to be done. I had them for my pain for about 1 week. I would compere it to adderall first day in effectiveness.

I'm also taking d3,mg,omega 3, multi , B,

tyrosine and theanine suplements give me instant headache.

Insn't this like number one issue for people with ADHD? There must be a way to deal with it ,especially when medication losses its effectiveness.

sarahsweets
09-15-16, 01:40 AM
I wish I had answers for you. My get-up-and-go buttons have been out of service for a loooonnng time too. Interestingly I get it when you say that the pain meds helped you. I always found them to be stimulating vs sedating. Adhd is a doing disorder. You know what to DO, you just have problems DOING what you know.
Hopefully someone else can recommend something that will help us both!

Toss4n
09-15-16, 01:48 AM
Thanks, I tried all kind of medication at various doses ,manufactures and even brand name.All this in past 4 years.

My first was concerta. It worked great first and second day , I did what needed to be done without thinking about it. No blocks in my mind. After 1 month, it had no effect.

Tried ritalin , no effect just some energy boost.

Tried vyvanse, it made me mentally slow,total brain fog.

Tried nuvigil, total brain fog,headache.

Tried focalin , stomach pain that would never stop.

Tried adderal XR, IR, from brand to generic. The best results were 1-3rd month.After that that effectiveness would go down even with increases dose and 1month brake from stimulants.I still feel adderall little bit in my system , but it has maybe 20% effect comparing to first month on it. Now at 15mg 2x a day. sometimes even 40mg a day of IR in 3 smaller doses.

Also while on oxy and hydro-codone, I just did what needed to be done. I had them for my pain for about 1 week. I would compere it to adderall first day in effectiveness.

I'm also taking d3,mg,omega 3, multi , B,

tyrosine and theanine suplements give me instant headache.

Insn't this like number one issue for people with ADHD? There must be a way to deal with it ,especially when medication losses its effectiveness.

There's still strattera and intuniv to try. Strattera might just be what you are looking for (titrate slow); people who don't react well to stimulants usually do better on atomoxetine and I've met and talked to a lot of people whom have had success with strattera, so don't let the negative comments discourage you from trying it. Or maybe a combination?

I must say I don't really know if procrastination is the most common symptom of ADHD, as it appears as if a lot of people are suffering from it, both with and without ADHD. My psychiatrist told me it's basically a learned behaviour that needs to be changed, and thus recommended CBT. There's really no medication for it, and it does suck. :(

Here's a great youtube video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff-4xuxvJ3s

It's funny how the areas involved in procrastination are the same ones responsible for most of the ADHD symptoms people suffer from (maybe that's why ADHD people tend to procrastinate more). Not sure why oxycodone seems to help a lot of people, when it just makes me super tired and spacey. Nothing like stimulants at all, and just made me want to sleep. Are you sure you aren't suffering from some sort of depression? That is the number 1 thing oxycodone is usually good for.

Going to do some research to find out how oxycodone works and if there's any research on its effects on ADHD (I know I have found people elsewhere saying the same thing, that oxycodone is the best adhd med ever).

roflwaffle
09-15-16, 02:49 AM
Hmm... On one hand, I totally understand where you're coming from. At the same time, I worry about the language you're using because I've used, and still use in some cases, similar language. Objectively, I know I can do what needs to be done, but at the same time, like you, I still have a very hard time doing what needs to be done without substantial external pressure.

For me at least, it's very dangerous to swap "I can't" with "I was unable to" or "I might not be able to" because the "I can't" can sometimes reduce my ability to do something. I'm more or less justifying not doing something I should be doing.

Granted, this may not apply to you, but I'm mentioning it because it's a very appealing view to hold, but one that can be very detrimental in my experience.

Toss4n
09-15-16, 06:19 AM
Found this quite interesting:

"Opiate Therapy for Attention Deficit (ADD) and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)

A young man who had been injured with the fracture to his right ankle and later to his hand continued to be chronically painful.

A diagnosis of obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) and attention deficit disorder (ADD) had been made a few years previously at a mental health clinic, and he had been treated with the stimulant, Adderall (which is amphetamine). This drug is quite appropriate for attention deficiency, less so for obsessive compulsive disorder (although it often works very well). He got some benefit but is was incomplete. After a few months of this therapy he moved out of state to a new job, it was there that his chronic pain from his previously fractured right ankle became severe. He ended up at a pain clinic where he was given Oxycodone. His doctors were, however, reluctant to give him Adderall with the Oxycodone. He found this worked extraordinarily well for him, both in regard to his pain, and his ADD and OCD. After a while he returned to his home, he was unable to find physicians who would provide the Oxycodone (just as his physicians out of state had been unwilling to prescribe his Adderall).

I prescribed the Oxycodone, and anticipated that I would later add Adderall. It wasn’t necessary. When he got to proper doses of the Oxycodone, he found that his pain, his ADD, and OCD were all abated. There was no need to add Adderall or any other stimulant. Remarkable, his many symptoms were controlled by a single drug, the opiate Oxycodone.

I think the take-home lesson is that those who suffer the bipolar spectrum, and that includes ADD and OCD are different, clinically and phamacologically, and it is they who will respond so well to opiates and /or stimulants. One or the other and, sometimes both."

Source (http://www.understandingpain.com/opiate-therapy-for-attention-deficit-add-and-obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocd.html)

If you are desperate you could always contact him regarding your medication.

Also stumbled upon this comment in an old thread:

"I haven't. Don't forget that pain causes mental fog, so if you're in pain and then you're not, you also feel as if a mental fog has lifted."

Maybe what you are describing is due to an increase in dopamine, without the influx of epinephrine, and a reduction of both emotional and physical pain. Maybe that's why marijuana works for some people diagnosed with ADHD, but not for others.

Have you ever tried CBD oil? Had a friend who said it it's been a lifesaver for his pain (not legal here). and thus could have a similar effect as the oxycodone.

EDIT: Not sure if this applies to hydrocodone, but tramal had a similar effect on someone I know who I suspect suffers from ADHD (not diagnosed though), and tramal works as an NMDA-, 5-HT2c. (α7)5-, M1- and M3-antagonist.

Here's an excerpt from an article I found:

"Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a long recognized and common childhood disorder. ADHD adolescents tend to encounter more difficulties in school and peer relationships, whereas ADHD adults have more occupational and interpersonal difficulties. However, with the treatment of central nervous system (CNS) stimulants, 10-20 % of the patients still remain poor responders to treatment. Among hypotheses for ADHD, dysfunction of N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA)-type glutamate receptors has recently been suggested by accumulating genetic and animal studies. This article systemically reviews evidence supporting NMDA dysfunction as a potential ADHD pathogenesis from perspectives of neurodevelopment, attentional circuitry, and impulse inhibition. The review also addresses the development of novel treatments for ADHD via modulation of glutamatergic system, particularly the NMDA/glycine site. These so-called NMDA enhancers may provide a new treatment option for patients with ADHD."

Source (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24410567)

Think the NMDA receptor is really interesting, as I've seen similar responses from people suffering from anhedonia and depersonalization disorder.

I know Atomoxetine (Strattera) works a partial antagonist for the NMDA receptor, and might just work if you work your way up to a significant dosage:

"Atomoxetine blocked NMDA-induced membrane currents. Half-maximal inhibition emerged at about 3 µM which is in the range of clinically relevant concentrations found in plasma of patients treated with this drug. The inhibition was voltage-dependent, indicating an open-channel blocking mechanism. Furthermore, the inhibitory potency of atomoxetine did not vary when measured on NMDA receptors from different brain regions or with different subunit compositions"

Source (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874851/)

Hah I now want to try Strattera myself. :giggle:

john2100
09-15-16, 06:41 AM
I wish I had answers for you. My get-up-and-go buttons have been out of service for a loooonnng time too. Interestingly I get it when you say that the pain meds helped you. I always found them to be stimulating vs sedating. Adhd is a doing disorder. You know what to DO, you just have problems DOING what you know.
Hopefully someone else can recommend something that will help us both!

I had hydrocone for my back pain . 10pills at 500mg i think . I was told to take as need 500mg. Also i was told to take only 1/3 or 1/2 of adderall dose.
In the afternoon i took 5mg adderall and hydrocodone 250mg. My pain went away and I just started to work on my project in my office. After 3 h I got up and fixed some things on my car ,which were bothering me for a year or too.
It had completly eliminated procrastination and calmed me down. The problem was , possible addiction while knowing that i would not get refill and also even if i get refills i heard that oxy addiction and then quiting is pure hell.
I quit stimulants rather easilly for necessary breaks , but hydro and oxy would be hell. Even after 10 pills , i felt a strong urge to have it in my system again. The urge went away after 3 days. I cant image 1year on hydro and then quiting. Just warning for people who may think its a good idea.

john2100
09-15-16, 07:12 AM
There's still strattera and intuniv to try. Strattera might just be what you are looking for (titrate slow); people who don't react well to stimulants usually do better on atomoxetine and I've met and talked to a lot of people whom have had success with strattera, so don't let the negative comments discourage you from trying it. Or maybe a combination?

I must say I don't really know if procrastination is the most common symptom of ADHD, as it appears as if a lot of people are suffering from it, both with and without ADHD. My psychiatrist told me it's basically a learned behaviour that needs to be changed, and thus recommended CBT. There's really no medication for it, and it does suck. :(

Here's a great youtube video on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff-4xuxvJ3s


Perhaps i should try stratera .
I really think that stimulants or any other drugs that affect your production of dopamin or serotonin or anything else of this kind, also takes away negative thougts . It almost gives you new optimism and hope.

I suffer from depression , but I know why i'm depressed. Because every time I try to do things to improve my life I'm being stopped by this invisible force. Any Task or chore itself is a negative thing , so without negativeness it just becomes a positive or neutral thing, which in a sense it is.
Any tasks is a positive thing, because it will help us at the end.We just view it as negative ,because the process of doing it is difficult.

I could image , if hypnoses worked, to turn a task into something extremely pleasant .. You would be begging for tasks. Our brain would view it as positive and all procrastination would be literally impossible.

It's funny how the areas involved in procrastination are the same ones responsible for most of the ADHD symptoms people suffer from (maybe that's why ADHD people tend to procrastinate more). Not sure why oxycodone seems to help a lot of people, when it just makes me super tired and spacey. Nothing like stimulants at all, and just made me want to sleep. Are you sure you aren't suffering from some sort of depression? That is the number 1 thing oxycodone is usually good for.

Going to do some research to find out how oxycodone works and if there's any research on its effects on ADHD (I know I have found people elsewhere saying the same thing, that oxycodone is the best adhd med ever).

Perhaps i should try stratera .
I really think that stimulants or any other drugs that affect your production of dopamin or serotonin or anything else of this kind, also takes away negative thougts . It almost gives you new optimism and hope.

I suffer from depression , but I know why i'm depressed. Because every time I try to do things to improve my life I'm being stopped by this invisible force. Any Task or chore itself is a negative thing , so without negativeness it just becomes a positive or neutral thing, which in a sense it is.
Any tasks is a positive thing, because it will help us at the end.We just view it as negative ,because the process of doing it is difficult.

I could image , if hypnoses worked, to turn a task into something extremely pleasant .. You would be begging for tasks. Our brain would view it as positive and all procrastination would be literally impossible.

john2100
09-15-16, 07:16 AM
Hmm... On one hand, I totally understand where you're coming from. At the same time, I worry about the language you're using because I've used, and still use in some cases, similar language. Objectively, I know I can do what needs to be done, but at the same time, like you, I still have a very hard time doing what needs to be done without substantial external pressure.

For me at least, it's very dangerous to swap "I can't" with "I was unable to" or "I might not be able to" because the "I can't" can sometimes reduce my ability to do something. I'm more or less justifying not doing something I should be doing.

Granted, this may not apply to you, but I'm mentioning it because it's a very appealing view to hold, but one that can be very detrimental in my experience.

I agree that language is very important here. I 've been using positive language to trick myself and it helped.

john2100
09-15-16, 07:26 AM
"Have you ever tried CBD oil? Had a friend who said it it's been a lifesaver for his pain (not legal here). and thus could have a similar effect as the oxycodone."

I'm not in pain anymore. It was just a short treatment . But I may just try CBC oil.

Also you are right about tramal, but i think that fighting add with pain medication may be just to temporary and then at the end you would have to fight pain meds addiction and as we know ,many many people lose this fight.

And the end you may defeat opiates addiction but still have add.

Cyllya
09-15-16, 08:37 AM
I feel your pain. Adderall helps me but only partially. After about 10-12 months at each of my previous doses, it stops helping with this symptom even when it continues to help with attention problems. I've been on 15mg for a few months and it's good so far, but I'm afraid of the problem (tolerance?) happening again.

It seems to be impairment in the "initiation of action" aspect of executive function. It's just this weird urge to not do things. Sometimes it even prevents fun things. Once you get close to a deadline, the anxiety about failing to complete the task might outweigh the urge to not do the task, so you are able to make yourself do it. Sometimes it works if you set the situation up to cause an urgent deadline to exist but (a) fake deadlines don't always have the same anxiety-inducing power (b) even if it works, that really sucks!

Insn't this like number one issue for people with ADHD? There must be a way to deal with it ,especially when medication losses its effectiveness.

It's pretty common for ADHD people to have this problem, and it's a pretty horrific problem for those of us who have it, but it's actually not one of the diagnostic criteria. (Well, you might be able to twist the description of the problem in a way that sounds attention-related, but that's not really the issue.) I don't think any rating scales mention it, and I don't see studies talking about how any treatment affects it. Articles about ADHD might be on the topic of "motivation" or "procrastination," but their advice usually only applies to problems other than this one.

I don't think there's a lot of motivation to develop treatments for this problem, because it's not a big deal to the parents or teachers of ADHD children. They can create the deadline by threatening punishment, and that will usually create enough stress/anxiety for the kid to do the task. It's miserable for the kid, but good enough for the authority figures, who just want the task done regardless of the consequences. If the kid becomes too miserable, they'll consider that a separate problem from ADHD.

Toss4n
09-16-16, 05:58 AM
I feel your pain. Adderall helps me but only partially. After about 10-12 months at each of my previous doses, it stops helping with this symptom even when it continues to help with attention problems. I've been on 15mg for a few months and it's good so far, but I'm afraid of the problem (tolerance?) happening again.

It seems to be impairment in the "initiation of action" aspect of executive function. It's just this weird urge to not do things. Sometimes it even prevents fun things. Once you get close to a deadline, the anxiety about failing to complete the task might outweigh the urge to not do the task, so you are able to make yourself do it. Sometimes it works if you set the situation up to cause an urgent deadline to exist but (a) fake deadlines don't always have the same anxiety-inducing power (b) even if it works, that really sucks!



It's pretty common for ADHD people to have this problem, and it's a pretty horrific problem for those of us who have it, but it's actually not one of the diagnostic criteria. (Well, you might be able to twist the description of the problem in a way that sounds attention-related, but that's not really the issue.) I don't think any rating scales mention it, and I don't see studies talking about how any treatment affects it. Articles about ADHD might be on the topic of "motivation" or "procrastination," but their advice usually only applies to problems other than this one.

I don't think there's a lot of motivation to develop treatments for this problem, because it's not a big deal to the parents or teachers of ADHD children. They can create the deadline by threatening punishment, and that will usually create enough stress/anxiety for the kid to do the task. It's miserable for the kid, but good enough for the authority figures, who just want the task done regardless of the consequences. If the kid becomes too miserable, they'll consider that a separate problem from ADHD.


Been thinking about this a lot and I don't that logic is going to solve this one. It is pretty clear to me, and maybe to everyone else suffering from this, that there is something that is lacking in us that makes us not be able to do the things we should do. I've always been very motivated, and I've honestly always really really wanted to do stuff, but somehow just haven't been able to force myself to do the things I should.

Lately though I've been thinking that maybe what's been missing has been that genuine joie de vivre; been experimenting with supplements quite a lot, and been reading a lot of research about methylation (very interesting and recommended reading for anyone suffering from any kind of psychological disorder), and I've noticed that I suddenly woke up today for the first time in years with that deep down feeling you had when you woke up as a kid - the feeling that anything is possible and you just feel genuinely happy and excited. Don't get me wrong I've felt excited and happy before, but those feelings are different and usually pass pretty quickly - they are just superficial feelings after all. This is something much more primal, and I don't know about you but before when I got excited or even laughed, I did it, but I didn't really feel it in the same way I did as when I was a kid. I felt like there was an ever so slight vail basically reducing (what is a good word for the opposite of amplify?) the sensory and emotional input, basically causing what most people would call "brain -" or "mental fog".

Have gotten a lot of stuff done without thinking about it, and just feel connected to the outside world in a matter I didn't think was possible. It's really hard to explain, but everything just feels right inside of me (on the outside that's not true of course, but still), and for the first time in my life I feel as if I can do anything (not manic, just genuinely myself and happy).

I won't go into this too much, as there are a lot of information about methylation and how it works online, so if you are interested it's worth a shot (just pm me if you want to know what works for me). The concerta has been key in this whole ordeal of course, but didn't really do much on its own, but the combination seems to do wonders for my mental health and wellbeing.

So maybe that's what is missing from the people who procrastinate? Maybe the key to genuinely "feeling alive" lies within the limbic system and prefrontal cortex, and this is what is keeping most people from living in the moment and up to their potential.

SpikeGuy
09-16-16, 06:09 PM
Been thinking about this a lot and I don't that logic is going to solve this one. It is pretty clear to me, and maybe to everyone else suffering from this, that there is something that is lacking in us that makes us not be able to do the things we should do. I've always been very motivated, and I've honestly always really really wanted to do stuff, but somehow just haven't been able to force myself to do the things I should.

Lately though I've been thinking that maybe what's been missing has been that genuine joie de vivre; been experimenting with supplements quite a lot, and been reading a lot of research about methylation (very interesting and recommended reading for anyone suffering from any kind of psychological disorder), and I've noticed that I suddenly woke up today for the first time in years with that deep down feeling you had when you woke up as a kid - the feeling that anything is possible and you just feel genuinely happy and excited. Don't get me wrong I've felt excited and happy before, but those feelings are different and usually pass pretty quickly - they are just superficial feelings after all. This is something much more primal, and I don't know about you but before when I got excited or even laughed, I did it, but I didn't really feel it in the same way I did as when I was a kid. I felt like there was an ever so slight vail basically reducing (what is a good word for the opposite of amplify?) the sensory and emotional input, basically causing what most people would call "brain -" or "mental fog".

Have gotten a lot of stuff done without thinking about it, and just feel connected to the outside world in a matter I didn't think was possible. It's really hard to explain, but everything just feels right inside of me (on the outside that's not true of course, but still), and for the first time in my life I feel as if I can do anything (not manic, just genuinely myself and happy).

I won't go into this too much, as there are a lot of information about methylation and how it works online, so if you are interested it's worth a shot (just pm me if you want to know what works for me). The concerta has been key in this whole ordeal of course, but didn't really do much on its own, but the combination seems to do wonders for my mental health and wellbeing.

So maybe that's what is missing from the people who procrastinate? Maybe the key to genuinely "feeling alive" lies within the limbic system and prefrontal cortex, and this is what is keeping most people from living in the moment and up to their potential.

I generally wake up feeling like "all is possible" and excited to get going but then the burdens of life show up and begin weighing me down.
I've read (listened to on Audible) around 25 books in the past year on success, motivation and psychology. Like the OP I know exactly what to do, I can easily help others and tell them how to improve. I just fail to do it myself and like the OP I don't know why. It's been the source of my self-hate. Like what's wrong with me?
I'm feeling less anger with myself now that I know that this is just the way I am and I've been excited to learn more about how my ADHD brain works.

Sometimes I can semi-successfully force myself to do the monotonous daily tasks but it takes me an extra long time and I feel like my brain is fried by the end of the day.
There's just no joy in it and I've always felt like life has to be fun.

I don't know, my brain is fried at the moment. I'm reading Focused Forward now and I'm hopeful this will help.

Toss4n
09-17-16, 06:25 AM
I generally wake up feeling like "all is possible" and excited to get going but then the burdens of life show up and begin weighing me down.
I've read (listened to on Audible) around 25 books in the past year on success, motivation and psychology. Like the OP I know exactly what to do, I can easily help others and tell them how to improve. I just fail to do it myself and like the OP I don't know why. It's been the source of my self-hate. Like what's wrong with me?
I'm feeling less anger with myself now that I know that this is just the way I am and I've been excited to learn more about how my ADHD brain works.

Sometimes I can semi-successfully force myself to do the monotonous daily tasks but it takes me an extra long time and I feel like my brain is fried by the end of the day.
There's just no joy in it and I've always felt like life has to be fun.

I don't know, my brain is fried at the moment. I'm reading Focused Forward now and I'm hopeful this will help.

Meds aren't working for you at all? Combining mucuna and a bit of l-tyrosine, with concerta also seems to do wonders for my procrastination. :D

20thcenturyfox
10-11-16, 06:54 PM
I sometimes literally wear myself out nagging, screaming pleading with myself to do things that I have left undone until they become urgent or overdue. On bad days I fall into bed 2 or 3 times in one day because I am so exhausted from trying to get myself to make a phone call or pay bills that I need a nap.

I'm calmer if I just try to do 1 thing, but I don't see how I can make a life for myself doing only 1 or 2 tiny productive things per day. I've given up doing almost everything optional, either because I don't have the energy or can't be sure I will follow through on what I plan and don't want to let others down.

Not being able to control myself is merely frustrating in the moment, but when I think of the long term it looks pretty grim.

psychopathetic
10-14-16, 09:09 AM
I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE,BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON I CANT FORCE MYSELF TO DO IT. ONLY A REAL DEADLINE WILL FORCE ME TO ACTION.

This has become me completely :*(. I'm worse now I think, than I was when I first became diagnosed a few years ago.

I relate with you on the meds too. I took them for months, and there was a very noticeable difference.
Then I quit taking them like an idiot for about 6 months...and now that I'm back on them, I'm not getting much of anything from them other than they help wake me up a bit (like drinking a couple of cups of coffee).
I'm already on the max dose my pill doc is willing to put me on too. It's very frustrating.

I don't know what to do with myself at this point in my life. I feel like really bad joke because of it and it really drags me down. I'm just getting absolutely no where in life atm, even though I want to be moving ahead so badly.

I'm glad there's people in this world who relate. Who 'get it'. Who know the struggle and how real it is.
I just don't like to feel alone. It scares me to think that no one can possibly understand me and my struggles.

(((Hugs)))

:grouphug:

john2100
10-18-16, 08:35 PM
This has become me completely :*(. I'm worse now I think, than I was when I first became diagnosed a few years ago.

I relate with you on the meds too. I took them for months, and there was a very noticeable difference.
Then I quit taking them like an idiot for about 6 months...and now that I'm back on them, I'm not getting much of anything from them other than they help wake me up a bit (like drinking a couple of cups of coffee).
I'm already on the max dose my pill doc is willing to put me on too. It's very frustrating.

I don't know what to do with myself at this point in my life. I feel like really bad joke because of it and it really drags me down. I'm just getting absolutely no where in life atm, even though I want to be moving ahead so badly.

I'm glad there's people in this world who relate. Who 'get it'. Who know the struggle and how real it is.
I just don't like to feel alone. It scares me to think that no one can possibly understand me and my struggles.

(((Hugs)))

:grouphug:

I agree that doing only what is necessary makes life more easy. I have eliminated almost 80% from my todo list.Some items on it were almost 3 years old. totaling over 350 tasks and projects. That was a total insanity.
I have realized that most normal people do it this way:

1.They are not bothered by every little thing that is wrong.
-they don't have to improve and reorganize everything
= they not gonna put it on a to do list

2.They don't have to research every thing about everything = no tasks a no clutter and 50 open tabs

3.They don't do impulse shopping

Just by doing this , I have eliminated many distractions and I have more mental energy.

Other thing that I found out is this. When am relaxed and just have a good day , not feeling anxious or depressed my add symptoms are more easily managed and I can function quite well even without meds. The problem is that There aren't that many days like this in a week . Probably just one day a week. If I could manage anxiety, stress, depression little better and get 2-3 days a week where I feel generally happy , I think my add symptoms wouldn't bother me and I could increase my productivity by at least 50-70% which would equal to about 65% of productivity of normal people. On bad days my productivity is at about 5% comper. to normal people. Meaning that it takes me 20min to do what normal people do in a 1 minute because of distractions.
I'm really productive at work , which is a mix of manual and mental work.
But after work or days off , thats what bothers me a lot.

I have discovered this correlation when I was no pain meds. They made me relaxed and almost like on autopilot , but without many emotions , good or bad.I would take my to do list and go one by one. I made many dreaded phone calls that i was planning to do for months. I just wasn't being stopped by procrastination habit. It felt as if I was a computer that was doing what was programmed to do , or as if I was doing it for someone else . No fear of outcome, no doubts, no what if etc. Just simple doing it.

I knew the pain meds would be gone in 5 days, so would my effectivity. I would't recommend it anyway .But my realization was, that when i was relaxed and almost disassociated with my self, I could just do anything that needed to be done. Am not able to replicate this without any meds yet. But on good days I can achieve about 65% compering to effective on those meds,which were by the way prescribe by doctor for pain .

Now I am trying to test this theory , by being more relaxed and see how it goes.

Delboy31
10-18-16, 10:00 PM
As we are all unique I cannot say what would work for you. I know how you feel, and have tried many things...the only thing that really works for me, is to somehow get myself in a better mood in order to do the things that I don't want to do. It doesn't always work, but playing a favorite song, or something like that I find helpful once in a while.

ADDon1
10-21-16, 01:24 PM
Hi,

[...] but what is it that is blocking my action even if there is will and motivation?

thanks for any help.

This is called task initiation, which is a part of the executive functions of your brain. People with ADD often find it very hard to start with a task. This has to do with a deficit of dopamine in the brain.

I'm not sure about the motivation part, because you would think motivation = dopamine = no problem with initiating tasks.

ucrenegade
10-21-16, 02:54 PM
Hi,

I was diagnosed with ADD. I was on and off medication for a while.
I see very little difference while on medication and off medication at this point. At first it was great but now after years, i might just be off of it.


My biggest problem is this :

I KNOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE,BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON I CANT FORCE MYSELF TO DO IT. ONLY A REAL DEADLINE WILL FORCE ME TO ACTION.

I would sit there , knowing it needs to be done, but unable to act for whatever reason . Once i start due to deadline , it is easier ,but what is it that is blocking my action even if there is will and motivation?

thanks for any help.


Sounds more like SCT than ADD IMO. I just realized they are different diagnosis also even though technically they have not been added to the DSM scale yet.

ADDon1
10-26-16, 06:06 PM
Sounds more like SCT than ADD IMO. I just realized they are different diagnosis also even though technically they have not been added to the DSM scale yet.

Never heard about SCT before, but sounds a lot like my wife and I, and our kids :umm1:.

john2100
10-26-16, 07:38 PM
Sounds more like SCT than ADD IMO. I just realized they are different diagnosis also even though technically they have not been added to the DSM scale yet.

I looked at SCT on wikipedia, but I dont have many symptoms listed.
Daydreaming, slow,sluggish,sleepy,drowsy,forgets what he was saying etc. are not symptoms of mine.

I still can't really figure this out.When my depression deepens,I can blame it on it. But when I feel better, I still have great difficulty to start a task.

Could a fear of failure by so strong that somewhere deep, you are just forbidding yourself to do anything that doesn't have to be done?

At my job i'm very professional and I don't have that problem. Anything that is voluntary ,even a part-time bizniss or a small project is almost always blocked ,almost like by some invisible force. I can overcome it on good days, but I would like to understand what is the reason behind this. I can't figure this out if it is physical or psychological or both.

john2100
10-26-16, 08:05 PM
This is called task initiation, which is a part of the executive functions of your brain. People with ADD often find it very hard to start with a task. This has to do with a deficit of dopamine in the brain.

I'm not sure about the motivation part, because you would think motivation = dopamine = no problem with initiating tasks.

maybe that motivation is not that strong to raise dopamin .Maybe it is just "need" . At the beginning, or planning phase It seems quite easy to start a task, but once I get to the point where those decisions will lead to direct action=execution ,like launching a new product and sending prototype to be manufactured, thats where it slow down to total inactivity. But with smaller projects it seems the same. It almost looks like I have to be faced with severe consequences and then I could do it when I think about it.

For example :
-I know I have to change oil in the car,consequences can be severe if not done.
-I know I have to change brake pads, because in 5 days my rotors would be damaged and then it would be even worst.
-if every inaction would carry severe consequences I could image I would be pretty productive.

Any suggestion on how to use this info for better execution?

thanks,

ToneTone
10-27-16, 12:21 PM
You said in an earlier post that "I know why I am depressed." That statement caught my attention and in my experience, it's not good to trust that thought.

I suffered my first major depression 30 years ago and since then have had depression lurking on the edges of my life even when it wasn't occupying center stage. In the past ten years, the depression has been in remission and that's through four family deaths and some really hard times.

Inherent to depression is a sense that there is a reason you're depressed. For me, it used to be that there was lots of suffering in the world. Well, lots of people know and think about all the suffering in the world and such an awareness doesn't trigger depression. Other thoughts that occur after depression are "I am worthless" "I haven't achieved anything" "I'm a failure" ... "I've tried and haven't been able to make change" "other people's lives are better than mine" ... and on and on ...

In the midst of depression, these thoughts/conclusions all feel as true and real as the heat and humidity on a sweltering summer day. But they are judgments, harsh and unforgiving and paralyzing judgments--not inevitable or accurate judgments.

These days I realize that depression runs in my family. My mom had episodes of it. Both brothers and my sister had prolonged episodes. Whether the cause was biological or emotional, I have a vulnerability to it. That's the reason! And once you suffer depression for an extended period then like with addiction, it becomes easier to feel depression. So after a while, ongoing depression can be THE REASON for depression. Once we burn in depression brain circuits, those circuits become quite strong and our brains can easily revert to these circuits.

My sense is that even when the depression is based on life circumstances, medication can jumpstart the person towards feeling a least somewhat capable of shaping their lives and thus help them through the circumstances. Indeed even if I were assume that the depression comes out of life failures, or problematic relationships or previous trauma, etc ... it takes enormous energy to work through those issues. That's why the medications can be so helpful. Because they give people enough room to then focus on the deeper issues of their lives.

So I would also distrust the sense that "I know what to do but I don't do it." Often lurking behind that thought is a series of other deep thoughts, such as "I'm probably going to mess things up again" ... and "even if I get started working now, I know I will stop working later" ... or "I've tried to change before and I always revert back." Those kinds of depressive thoughts can be the result of ADHD, and the presence of that sense of failure and hopelessness is why a lot of ADHD clinicians think people need Cognitive Behavior Therapy along with meds, because those negative thoughts of failure (often based on past experience) can be paralyzing.

Anyway, just my two cents. I encourage you to get treated for depression if you aren't currently doing so.

Tone

Cyllya
10-30-16, 02:41 PM
Sounds more like SCT than ADD IMO. I just realized they are different diagnosis also even though technically they have not been added to the DSM scale yet.

There are a variety of conditions that could cause similar results for different reasons, but the version I'm thinking of is an aspect of executive dysfunction, which makes it more likely to be an ADHD thing. It's not really in the diagnostic criteria (or proposed criteria) for either condition though.

The closet things in both cases are:
--[ADHD] Often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to do tasks that require mental effort over a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
--[ADHD] Often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (e.g., loses focus, side-tracked).
--[SCT] Underactive or less energetic than others
--[SCT] Daydreaming excessively
(SCT symptoms from Wikipedia.)

(Daydreaming is what some of us end up doing when we are avoiding some other task.)

I think initiation impairment can cause many of the behaviors in the ADHD inattentive criteria, for a different reason. In fact, I've even had it manifest as "trouble concentrating." (If I'm trying to force myself to do some task, I often find that I can think about the task OR take physical actions toward the task, but not both, so writing an essay for school may be straight up impossible while taking out the trash is more difficult than it should be but still achievable.)

I still can't really figure this out.When my depression deepens,I can blame it on it. But when I feel better, I still have great difficulty to start a task.

I'd say this problem compounds with other obstacles to getting things done. So if you have depressive lethargy + initiation impairment, that's worse than either of them alone.

This has become me completely :*(. I'm worse now I think, than I was when I first became diagnosed a few years ago.

I sympathize. In fact, I think my increased understanding of the problem has actually made my impairment a little worse! Emotionally, it's easier to exercise willpower when you feel like it's likely to pay off.