View Full Version : Is ADD PI a processing disorder?


NateDEEzy
10-10-16, 10:21 PM
I have a theory that ADD PI is the result of being unable to process all the info our brain tries to take in. I was feeling very down today, and had horrible running thoughts, and when I got home I took my contacts out and left my glasses off and I noticed I felt much better bc all of a sudden I could just sit and be silent and still. I couldn't watch TV bc my vision is so bad, and I just had a chance to sit and be.
Anyway, I have a feeling that ADD PI and the sluggishness mental bog has less to do with havig a low functioning brain, but an overloaded brain. Just like a computer that has too many applications open is going to be much slower bc it's trying to process so much stuff. Our brains are sooo much more powerful than a computer so can you imagine just how much stuff it must be trying to process to slow it down so much?
I say this because I used to be really hyper, more so than my friends, when I was younger. I'd be willing to say that is true about us all, and that we still have moments of extreme hyperness, if maybe only in the brain. Anyway, I think that is still there within us, only we've collected sooo much stuff over the years that our brain is just overwhelemed and unable to function well.

Maybe this has already been discovered but I really do think this is a processing disorder more than anything else.

Pilgrim
10-11-16, 05:38 AM
I don't think it's slowness, maybe a problem in sorting and storing things in a logical order.

aeon
10-11-16, 11:31 AM
I think that captures but one aspect of my disability, and I am not sure how accurately.

But it is surely something to think long about and consider.


Cheers,
Ian

Lunacie
10-11-16, 11:39 AM
In a way that's accurate. We have trouble prioritizing incoming information so we do experience information overload.

This also makes it difficult to "find the file" we need at any time. I was posting this morning and the name of a medication that my granddaughter used for several years just would not come to me. I had to google. That has been less of a problem since I started taking Omega 3 over a decade ago.

Kdawg1
02-26-17, 06:33 AM
Yes! I would say this is accurate. I was having a few suicidal thoughts about 10 months ago, and this is what led up too it. I've been raising twins 6yo now and working full time, but thats not what caused the negative thoughts, just has made me more fatigued. Over 2 years ago we moved to a vary large city and my job is just a huge place with too many ppl. It was just too much, too much information, this damn smart phone is not helping. I constantly Google things, and even study Google maps for hrs. I did get on meds, and they do help at work and make me calm and happy. The long term fix I think is to move back to the country and live simple. When I can focus on a task, especially at work my numbers are out of this world, but I've been know to flip out bad when too many distractions break that focus. Also when I was doing triathlons and running,5k and 10ks my mind was in a much more clear state. It really helped. But due to injury and other medical issues that is not an option as of right now.

Fraser_0762
02-26-17, 07:50 AM
ADHD can be an overlap of many different conditions, including Auditory and Sensory processing disorders.

funkymascot
02-27-17, 06:12 PM
I definately think it's at least partially an information processing disorder. Of course, sluggish cognitive tempo is the name being used lately, to distiguish it from ADHD-PI, which is simply ADHD minus hyperactive/impulsive symptoms. I actually have both disorders but my brother seems to have ADHD-PI without SCT, and he doesn't have processing problems

Letching Gray
02-28-17, 11:33 PM
I have a theory that ADD PI is the result of being unable to process all the info our brain tries to take in.

Part of paying attention is screening out trivial or unwanted distractions. In that sense it does overwhelm our brains trying to process more info than is possible or necessary. If our "screeners" don't work properly, we can't easily zoom in on what we want or need to. To be able to hold our attention on the one thing we must concentrate on is another distinct piece that's necessary to be able to process information. To put that information in context, to manipulate it, to grade it, to look at it from a different perspective (if its new information) each of these utilizes a separate cognitive function. Then, to put into words verbally, on paper, or in forming a new concept, requires other mental faculties.

And they all are the result of microscopic chemical, biological and electrical activity mixing together, some at the speed of light, that make it possible to think and communicate. Mind blowing.

For example, we don't really "see" anything. Our brains convert light through chemical operations into electric pulses to form an image. Cut open that brain and we cannot find that image anywhere. It doesn't exist.

SashaBV
03-01-17, 06:13 PM
Sometimes my brain can't take in/understand info at a normal rate. For example, another person is talking to me, but even trying hard I can only take in it in bits and pieces, with the rest not coming in at all. Other times, my brain can take it in normally. This is without the wandering mind or typical distraction that ADD brains have. Hard to explain, really.

Letching Gray
03-01-17, 10:02 PM
Sometimes my brain can't take in/understand info at a normal rate. For example, another person is talking to me, but even trying hard I can only take in it in bits and pieces, with the rest not coming in at all. Other times, my brain can take it in normally. This is without the wandering mind or typical distraction that ADD brains have. Hard to explain, really.

Are you sure? How do you make the distinction?

How is your hearing, BTW? Have you had it checked?

SashaBV
03-02-17, 01:32 AM
My hearing is normal for my age, tested a year or so ago. I've always had this to some degree, it comes and goes. When I was a child, a few teachers in school seemed to notice something. But back in those days, nobody knew about ADD or most learning disorders. One did have my hearing tested in 6th grade, also normal. When it starts, my mind processes more slowly, I think, and maybe that's why I can't take it all in. I learned to compensate to some degree, got to where my mind could fill in some of the blanks, so to speak. Compensating for ADD got me through a lot in my life. But as a child, I knew something was wrong and developed a little bit of inferiority complex.

Letching Gray
03-05-17, 04:59 AM
My hearing is normal for my age, tested a year or so ago. I've always had this to some degree, it comes and goes. When I was a child, a few teachers in school seemed to notice something. But back in those days, nobody knew about ADD or most learning disorders. One did have my hearing tested in 6th grade, also normal. When it starts, my mind processes more slowly, I think, and maybe that's why I can't take it all in. I learned to compensate to some degree, got to where my mind could fill in some of the blanks, so to speak. Compensating for ADD got me through a lot in my life. But as a child, I knew something was wrong and developed a little bit of inferiority complex.

I can relate. I developed perseveration--and didn't know what that meant until a few years ago. I'd try so hard to remember what was said, I'd repeat it over and over. It was exhausting. So many things were so tiring before help arrived for ADHD. I forget how bad it was.

The reason I asked how you make the distinction is that the primary feature and symptom of my ADD is "tuning out". It was crippling. I'd look someone squarely in the eye, nod my head on cue, smile or frown depending on inflection, and the other person had no idea I didn't hear but a word or two of what he had to say. That didn't help with my job performance, I assure you.

Letching Gray
03-06-17, 05:23 AM
My hearing is normal for my age, tested a year or so ago. I've always had this to some degree, it comes and goes. When I was a child, a few teachers in school seemed to notice something. But back in those days, nobody knew about ADD or most learning disorders. One did have my hearing tested in 6th grade, also normal. When it starts, my mind processes more slowly, I think, and maybe that's why I can't take it all in. I learned to compensate to some degree, got to where my mind could fill in some of the blanks, so to speak. Compensating for ADD got me through a lot in my life. But as a child, I knew something was wrong and developed a little bit of inferiority complex.



In conclusion, under conditions in which the cognitive demands needed to guide response selection were minimized, for habitual motor responding, no differences in neural activation were observed between children with ADHD and TD children. In contrast, when required to withhold from responding, children with ADHD showed diminished recruitment in networks that are important for response selection, with frontal differences localized to the pre-SMA.

J Cogn Neurosci. Author manuscript; available in PMC 2010 July 2.
Published in final edited form as:
J Cogn Neurosci. 2008 March; 20(3): 478493.
doi: 10.1162/jocn.2008.20032

I love learning about the science behind ADHD. Lucky to be alive when technology is making significant breakthroughs on how the human brain functions. Many still deny that ADHD is more than a hoax created by Big Pharma and colluding psychiatrists trying to make easy cash. I rarely get extremely angry these days, but when I run across medical professionals mocking the trauma we've endured from this disorder, I start fuming, big time. Modern medicine is just scratching the surface of the complex nature of cognitive challenges.

jman05
03-18-17, 07:36 PM
Yes. For me anyways. I even had someone at work tell me I have trouble processing things fast and correctly.kind of like a funnel that is too small.

NateDEEzy
03-26-17, 12:29 AM
Yeah, it's like a jerky assembly line. I feel like other people's is much smoother. Almost like thoughts wiz by so fast that we have a hard time slowing that down to a pace that makes concentrating on something almost impossible. I think that's why we are good at things we have intense interest in, bc we aren't really slow as much as can't focus unless we are super interested. We still struggle, but it's much less severe. Kinda like why we can't talk on and on about things that really interest us, bc we genearlly have super in depth knowledge of it.

Con Safo
03-29-17, 05:17 PM
For me, it's like my brain rattles along with a million thoughts that I can't process and put into words or actions. My mouth and my hands can't keep up and I end up lost in a half finished world. It's pretty frustrating to say the least. I've underachieved massively in my life because of it. I have to keep everything so simple in order to just about cope with life. I suppose there are positive sides to it but it's hard work.

NateDEEzy
03-29-17, 10:28 PM
For me, it's like my brain rattles along with a million thoughts that I can't process and put into words or actions. My mouth and my hands can't keep up and I end up lost in a half finished world. It's pretty frustrating to say the least. I've underachieved massively in my life because of it. I have to keep everything so simple in order to just about cope with life. I suppose there are positive sides to it but it's hard work.

Hey! Thanks for sharing! I feel like you described my life with what you wrote. I've struggled so much in life with trying to fit in, and I had a realization lately, that I always knew deep down but just ignored bc I wanted a normal life. But maybe we are here to be different. Maybe we aren't supposed to fit in. I have always felt called to help people in a meaningful way and I just always suppressed it bc I am afraid of stepping out too much and calling attention to myself, bc in the past the attention I've gotten (growing up), was always being made fun of (for being different). And so I think I've done all that I could to try and fit in and appear normal. I went to university, got a master's degree, and now have a job doign something I am not passionate about all bc I wanted to appear normal. However, I listen to podcasts at work and heard this guy named Justin Wren tell his story, and it's super inspiring (at least to me).
Briefly explaining it, he was a UFC fighter and was addicted to pain pills. He eventually turned his life around, and now is a lead spokesperson for a charity called Fight For The Forgotten, an subsect of the charity Water4, who goes into undeveloped nations in Africa and drills wells to provide clean water. I had no idea, but approx 5 million people and 1.5 million children die every year from no access to clean water. People actually die from diarrhea. It's something we in developed nations don't think twice about (clean water), yet it's an epidemic. Anyway, I haven't made the plunge yet, but I'm on the edge trying to convince myself to leap, to go for a life of service. Where I can spend my time trying to raise money for things that I'm actually passionate about (helping others).
Maybe this is what we are here for. Not to fit in, but to use what we do have. I personally think that we are super compassionate people, but that compassion was never nurtured and given a direction to follow. I mean when you live a life of not fitting in, you suffer greatly, and how can you not be forced to learn compassion when you live this type of life?
Anyway, you should check out the podcast. It's the Joe Rogan Podcast, and again the guys name is Justin Wren. It's on YouTube, and he was just on (he's been on multiple times though).

InnSaei
04-30-17, 08:52 PM
Yes. For me anyways. I even had someone at work tell me I have trouble processing things fast and correctly.kind of like a funnel that is too small.
Typically when its how you describe it "a tunnel that's too small" it is what's called a filtering issue. There are many types of memory and processing that we are capable of that I can go into that later if anyone wants. But a filtering issue means that you can only observe and take in a certain amount of information at one time. I have this as well. For some people they have the filtering issue but for anything they can get past the filter, they remember very well. For some, even what they get past it is remembered poorly. For me, I can remember pretty much anything that gets past the filter. I also just started taking concerta to help "open up my filters" and it has been working wonderfully at the 36mg dosage with no side affects and I may go up to 54.

Kunga Dorji
05-01-17, 02:47 AM
I have a theory that ADD PI is the result of being unable to process all the info our brain tries to take in. I was feeling very down today, and had horrible running thoughts, and when I got home I took my contacts out and left my glasses off and I noticed I felt much better bc all of a sudden I could just sit and be silent and still. I couldn't watch TV bc my vision is so bad, and I just had a chance to sit and be.
Anyway, I have a feeling that ADD PI and the sluggishness mental bog has less to do with havig a low functioning brain, but an overloaded brain. Just like a computer that has too many applications open is going to be much slower bc it's trying to process so much stuff. Our brains are sooo much more powerful than a computer so can you imagine just how much stuff it must be trying to process to slow it down so much?
I say this because I used to be really hyper, more so than my friends, when I was younger. I'd be willing to say that is true about us all, and that we still have moments of extreme hyperness, if maybe only in the brain. Anyway, I think that is still there within us, only we've collected sooo much stuff over the years that our brain is just overwhelemed and unable to function well.

Maybe this has already been discovered but I really do think this is a processing disorder more than anything else.


There are points where you come close to the truth here.

Firstly there are issues of stress and overload in ADHD, and in many cases episodes of cognitive sluggishness are explicable by the exhaustion that can follow a period of sympathetic overactivity.

The hyperactivity can come from a number of areas, often unrecognised physical discomfort, unrecognised stress response, underlying issues with the balance system.

One thing that interested me greatly is that there is a huge symptomatic overlap between eye problems (especially convergence insufficiency) and ADHD. A friend gave me a questionnaire he uses for kids with convergence insufficiency and the overlap with ADHD symptoms was staggering.

I have the eye/balance symptoms myself and I do know that these lead to very fatiguable brain function and that it is possible to physically test for that.

Overall - re processing, most ADHD people I know are very fast- and I know a few clinicians who have commented on that.

The real problem is that, simply put, the lower brain, is letting too many signals in to consciousness at once, some very basic processes like eye control and balance are mildly dysfunctional, and the resultant stress state also drops the threshold of awareness (when stressed, one wants to be aware of every possible threatening stimulus).

NateDEEzy
05-02-17, 10:59 PM
There are points where you come close to the truth here.

Firstly there are issues of stress and overload in ADHD, and in many cases episodes of cognitive sluggishness are explicable by the exhaustion that can follow a period of sympathetic overactivity.

The hyperactivity can come from a number of areas, often unrecognised physical discomfort, unrecognised stress response, underlying issues with the balance system.

One thing that interested me greatly is that there is a huge symptomatic overlap between eye problems (especially convergence insufficiency) and ADHD. A friend gave me a questionnaire he uses for kids with convergence insufficiency and the overlap with ADHD symptoms was staggering.

I have the eye/balance symptoms myself and I do know that these lead to very fatiguable brain function and that it is possible to physically test for that.

Overall - re processing, most ADHD people I know are very fast- and I know a few clinicians who have commented on that.

The real problem is that, simply put, the lower brain, is letting too many signals in to consciousness at once, some very basic processes like eye control and balance are mildly dysfunctional, and the resultant stress state also drops the threshold of awareness (when stressed, one wants to be aware of every possible threatening stimulus).

Wow, very interesting about the lower brain letting in too much stimuli into our consciousness. This also seems true, as I was going to post (as I can't remember if I have yet) if anyone else startles easily. I startle so much easier than most people. There was a woman I used to work with who was like on crack as her normal state. Just super high paced. But she was seriously impossible to startle. The brain is a curious thing.

Kunga Dorji
05-07-17, 11:35 PM
Wow, very interesting about the lower brain letting in too much stimuli into our consciousness. This also seems true, as I was going to post (as I can't remember if I have yet) if anyone else startles easily. I startle so much easier than most people. There was a woman I used to work with who was like on crack as her normal state. Just super high paced. But she was seriously impossible to startle. The brain is a curious thing.

It is a very complex area, and still relatively poorly understood.

There is a huge shift in neuroscience away from models which focussed on cognition and the cortex, back to the core structures in the brainstem which integrate sensory inputs to create the hologram that we call reality, and the major subcortical structures of cerebellum, basal ganglia, thalamus and hypothalamus.

The best book I have found in this area is called "Subcortical Structures and Cognition"- but that is pretty heavy going.
There is a shorter book by the same authors called ADHD as a Model of Brain Behaviour Relationships.

This gives a nice 2 page summary:
http://www.leonardkoziol.com/publications/Koziol_2013_flyer.pdf

mildadhd
05-08-17, 02:53 AM
The reptilian complex, also known as the R-complex or "reptilian brain" was the name MacLean gave to the basal ganglia, structures derived from the floor of the forebrain during development. The term derives from the idea that comparative neuroanatomists once believed that the forebrains of reptiles and birds were dominated by these structures. MacLean proposed that the reptilian complex was responsible for species-typical instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain


Consciousness originates in the lower brain.

Unconditioned sensory, emotional and homeostatic response systems are first processed in the lower brain, before being processed in the higher brain.


m

mildadhd
05-08-17, 03:28 AM
It is a very complex area...

No pun intended.

The reptilian complex, the paleomammalian complex and the neomammalian complex



The reptilian complex, also known as the R-complex or "reptilian brain" was the name MacLean gave to the basal ganglia, structures derived from the floor of the forebrain during development. The term derives from the idea that comparative neuroanatomists once believed that the forebrains of reptiles and birds were dominated by these structures. MacLean proposed that the reptilian complex was responsible for species-typical instinctual behaviors involved in aggression, dominance, territoriality, and ritual displays.


The paleomammalian brain consists of the septum, amygdalae, hypothalamus, hippocampal complex, and cingulate cortex. MacLean first introduced the term "limbic system" to refer to this set of interconnected brain structures in a paper in 1952. MacLean's recognition of the limbic system as a major functional system in the brain was widely accepted among neuroscientists, and is generally regarded as his most important contribution to the field. MacLean maintained that the structures of the limbic system arose early in mammalian evolution (hence "paleomammalian") and were responsible for the motivation and emotion involved in feeding, reproductive behavior, and parental behavior.


The neomammalian complex consists of the cerebral neocortex, a structure found uniquely in higher mammals, specifically humans. MacLean regarded its addition as the most recent step in the evolution of the mammalian brain, conferring the ability for language, abstraction, planning, and perception.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain


m

Kunga Dorji
05-09-17, 06:41 AM
No pun intended.

The reptilian complex, the paleomammalian complex and the neomammalian complex










http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain


m

Sometimes even Wikipedia gets it right ! :)

jman05
05-31-17, 10:56 AM
Typically when its how you describe it "a tunnel that's too small" it is what's called a filtering issue. There are many types of memory and processing that we are capable of that I can go into that later if anyone wants. But a filtering issue means that you can only observe and take in a certain amount of information at one time. I have this as well. For some people they have the filtering issue but for anything they can get past the filter, they remember very well. For some, even what they get past it is remembered poorly. For me, I can remember pretty much anything that gets past the filter. I also just started taking concerta to help "open up my filters" and it has been working wonderfully at the 36mg dosage with no side affects and I may go up to 54.

A filter isnt a good analogy because a filter always filters out the same percentage of information. A "funnel" is where I can process 100% of the information if it is coming in slow enough. If it comes in too fast, it backs up and not all of it comes through.