View Full Version : I think that I'm undateable.


Lloyd_
10-28-16, 06:29 PM
I'm not the most confident type of guy for one nor was I born with the gift of gab so of course I'm not that all talkative and avoid especially talking to women because I always sound stupid inside my head when I talk and there is nothing really of interest I have to say that they would find interesting. I have bad social anxiety and do not like being out in public and when I am I'm always given the least attention to by women when I'm with a group of other fellas so it doesn't really help as far as building up my confidence and sense of self worth.

I tried POF for a little bit to where I messaged a whole bunch of people and maybe got a few replies back but it was just one or two exchanges, nothing in common.

It's been now about 11 years since the last time I dated, back then I used to do a lot of drugs and get drunk a lot which gave the perception to people that I was normal like them because my mind was completely gone as well as the anxiety and I wasn't as anywhere near as introspective and aware of certain things that has turned me into quite the nihilist.

Dunno unless I meet a woman who sorta shares my worldview on things, I believe that I'll continue to remain undatable. My folks and friends even have shown concern that I'm single which leaves me with the feeling of sadness and generally I'm pretty persistent in my endevours and very goal orientated but this area of my life I feel is so ****** up and with the advent of hookup apps like tinder has destroyed the idea of monogamy in society, the degenerate scum are the majority and people who want a traditional monogamous relationship without having to deal with organized religion are screwed!

Not to mention I'm an INTP personality type which puts me in a small minority and not to mention women who are INTP's are something like 1% of the entire population.

Can't really think of anything more to add, your input appreciated.

Please tell me it's not always going to be this way. :(

Little Missy
10-28-16, 06:36 PM
It will NOT always be this way. I truly believe there is someone for you. :)

dvdnvwls
10-28-16, 06:54 PM
Pah. No one is undateable.

You described the solution already yourself: Meet a woman who sort of shares your worldview. To do that, find out real-life places where there are lots of people who share your worldview, and start spending real-life time with them.

aeon
10-28-16, 07:03 PM
Please tell me it's not always going to be this way. :(

I’m not going to tell you, or promise you, anything I can’t guarantee will be so.

That said, I will say (just) two things:


There are all sorts of people out there in the world, and a number of them might be a good match for you. That doesn’t mean any one of them would be like a woman you are imagining either. From my own experience, I never would have imagined, much less dreamed of, my sweetie.
As with most things in life, attitude means a lot, and in this case, it means everything. That doesn’t mean you have to be someone you are not, but if you have a lack of self-esteem, a sense of “poor me,” an inability to see worth in yourself and the rest of the world, especially the people in it, any degree of non-self-acceptance accompanied by self-loathing...if on a fundamental level you do not love yourself wholly, well and true, without condition...you will narrow your chances until the only people who match you will be those who are not good for your well-being and happiness.

So keep your worldview, it means a lot to you, and in time, it may mean a lot to someone else. But know this: loving yourself, and the confidence that comes out of that...that’s a non-negotiable. You have to have it. And that’s true whether you have a partner or not. But if you do have it, she’ll see that...and that *is* something I can promise you.

And don’t forget to shine your shoes. ;)


Well Wishes,
Ian

Jeftheginger
10-28-16, 07:08 PM
Are you satisfied with who you are now. Or are you trying to change who you are.

dvdnvwls
10-28-16, 07:41 PM
I know that there are a lot of people who are not naturally social. But meeting people is a social thing. If looking for a relationship without the real-life social activity, people run the risk of dating someone very unsuitable - or perhaps a cat that has learned to type. :)

Little Missy
10-28-16, 09:36 PM
Hey! Can you dance the Laendler?


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qUfWRBGQkz0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

dvdnvwls
10-28-16, 09:54 PM
Are you suggesting Lloyd join the Niederösterreichisches Ländlertänzervereinigungsgesellschaft? (which only started tonight because I just invented it) ;)

Little Missy
10-29-16, 06:51 AM
Are you suggesting Lloyd join the Niederösterreichisches Ländlertänzervereinigungsgesellschaft? (which only started tonight because I just invented it) ;)

I am! I am!

Take a ballroom dancing class Lloyd. :D

Lloyd_
10-30-16, 02:36 PM
I am! I am!

Take a ballroom dancing class Lloyd. :D

My response to your comment is this. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOyF4hR5GoE :lol:

Little Missy
10-30-16, 04:12 PM
well, I guess you could try The Skate Castle, or Fight Club. :)

dvdnvwls
10-30-16, 06:08 PM
Lloyd ... just a little hint... Dancing classes are actually not for people who can already dance :)

If you simply prefer some other social activity instead of dancing, then forget the dancing and go do the other thing whatever it is.

Little Missy
10-30-16, 06:11 PM
Lloyd ... just a little hint... Dancing classes are actually not for people who can already dance :)

If you simply prefer some other social activity instead of dancing, then forget the dancing and go do the other thing whatever it is.

Dancing classes usually involve good little women. :)

20thcenturyfox
10-31-16, 09:45 PM
Other than one or 2 references to "dating" which seems very ambiguous, I don't see any mention of to what end "dating" would be a means.

Girls who share his world view are one thing. Girls who are "compatible" and share his goals might be either a subset or scattered across a broader field. Not all successful couples are like the Bobbsey twins or even Myers-Briggs congruent...I would guess the majority have some complementarity.

dvdnvwls
11-01-16, 12:28 PM
People do sometimes tend to speak as if everyone understands.

I took Lloyd to mean that he's met too many women who find his points of view disagreeable, and that he'd like to meet people who don't all do that.

20thcenturyfox
11-01-16, 02:04 PM
Does he want to marry and start a family?
Does he want to hook up?
Does he want a temporarily exclusive sexual partner until one of them finds someone better?

Good chance these are different populations; no point fishing in the wrong pool.

sarahsweets
11-03-16, 10:28 AM
Sometimes changing your expectations is what opens the doors of life.

Stevuke79
11-03-16, 11:22 AM
Lots of good advice here.

Finding a hobby can be VERY hard. But it solves A LOT of problems.

And it's a way to meet people.

I have a hard time meeting people and interacting with them. I avoid being in groups... but I found that joining a hobby was a good way to overcome that.

Little Missy
11-03-16, 11:23 AM
Lots of good advice here.

Finding a hobby can be VERY hard. But it solves A LOT of problems.

And it's a way to meet people.

I have a hard time meeting people and interacting with them. I avoid being in groups... but I found that joining a hobby was a good way to overcome that.

what is your hobby?

Stevuke79
11-03-16, 01:21 PM
jiu jitsu .. but it can be anything...

And btw I never go out and do things with people or in a group .. but at 37 years old I feel like I really overcame something.

Little Missy
11-03-16, 04:46 PM
jiu jitsu .. but it can be anything...

And btw I never go out and do things with people or in a group .. but at 37 years old I feel like I really overcame something.

I never do things with people or in a group either. Too much drama.

I think :scratch:

Stevuke79
11-03-16, 05:50 PM
I make my own drama.. i worry about every little thing i do...

But ive found that practise makes perfect... so going back to dating.. this could be away to not only meet new people, but to get more used to interacting with people.

Lloyd_
11-03-16, 11:10 PM
People do sometimes tend to speak as if everyone understands.

I took Lloyd to mean that he's met too many women who find his points of view disagreeable, and that he'd like to meet people who don't all do that.

To be clear, what I mean is women don't seem interested or attracted to me, I think because I'm not interesting or exhibit those alpha traits women look for in men. Idk when I was younger it didn't seem this difficult around 15 years ago, dunno if it's now because I'm older or how maybe things have changed in the attitudes in our society about dating.

Seems people only care about having a one night stand more so than trying to get to know the other on that personal level. Perhaps it could be too that as I get older sex isn't as important to me as trying to find somebody I can get along with, somebody who is a suitable partner.

Never thought the idea of intimacy would become more of a foreign concept in my later years than in my early adult years.

It seems that whenever I'm in a room with maybe let's say few other guys and there is just a woman there, I'm the one she always shows the least interest in even though I try to attempt conversation, maybe it's because I'm not really good with small talk but instead get into deep pseudo babble.

The older I get the more introverted I've become and becoming more and more detached, I feel like I'm of a different species than a human. I don't fit in or belong.

But yet I feel in complete control, most things that used to bother me even just a couple of years ago don't anymore. Am I turning into a psychopath? Is it some sort of PTSD?

I am at loss knowing how to deal with this.

BellaVita
11-03-16, 11:43 PM
Just wondering - where did you get the idea most people seem to only care about one night stands?

I hope it helps you to feel better that this isn't true, at all.

Many people are interested in relationships.

Also, maybe it's best not to be in a group of guys with only one woman? :scratch:

Also - what did you mean by "alpha traits?" I am not too familiar with that term.

Sorry if I sound overly blunt in this post - I'm not meaning to just lacking brain energy because I'm falling asleep.

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 12:49 AM
Just wondering - where did you get the idea most people seem to only care about one night stands?

I hope it helps you to feel better that this isn't true, at all.

Many people are interested in relationships.

Also, maybe it's best not to be in a group of guys with only one woman? :scratch:

Also - what did you mean by "alpha traits?" I am not too familiar with that term.

Sorry if I sound overly blunt in this post - I'm not meaning to just lacking brain energy because I'm falling asleep.

I hope it helps you to feel better that this isn't true, at all.I wish that your statement was true on this.

Our society has become hypersexualized with the advent of 'hookup apps' like Tinder for example.

Good article that supports my previous statement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11915040/Dr-Lucy-Worsley-dating-apps-like-Tinder-are-destroying-the-art-of-romance.html

STD rates reach record high in United States



http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/20/health/std-statistics-record-high/






I wish it wasn't true and that somebody would prove me wrong about this. :(


Also - what did you mean by "alpha traits?" I am not too familiar with that term.
Women usually choose to be with men who appear to be the most dominant of the pack, prison tats, assertive, makes a lot of money, etc.






I can't be the only one who sees what's going on here and the way things are going they will throw people like me into mental asylums for having a dissenting point of view or a different way of thinking.


INTP personality types have been marked for termination and if people and women think that I'm delusional or crazy then I rather die alone with my convictions than to die on my knees.

BellaVita
11-04-16, 01:10 AM
Thanks for the articles. I read the entire first one, skimmed the second. I don't know what my thoughts are on it - but surely most people don't use those types of apps? I never did, and I've never had any interest in that sort of thing. I also wonder if those people wanted to have one-night stands anyway and this just gives them an easier way to do it? I don't know, I'm just offering a different view but I don't actually know what to think of it.

About the STDs - I wouldn't jump immediately to the conclusion that you did. It could just be that people are feeling less fearful to come forward and report their issues about it - it's not as taboo as it once was. People are feeling more comfortable mentally about getting treatment. Of course, this is just a thought.

Interesting about the alpha traits thing. I must be in the minority because I sure don't go after those things. (Or maybe women going after alpha-traits guys are not as common as you have perceived? I don't know) I prefer the sensitive, gentle, thoughtful type. (Which is why I married my husband) And he certainly is no rich dude. (Also, I don't know what a "prison tat" is :scratch:)

I don't think you'll get thrown into a mental asylum for thinking different - that doesn't make sense. I'm sure you're not the only one who thinks the things you've spoken of in your post.

Also - I'm close friends with an INTP and like that personality type.

Have I proven you wrong yet? :p Oh and not sure if this helps but I'm 23 and female.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 02:23 AM
Feeling in control can lead to a desire to maintain the control, even if that leads to disadvantages for you. It's possible that some people notice the control aspect and don't like it.

Also, the attitude that society has gone bad and most people you meet are morally inferior can make a person seem forbidding and judgmental, and therefore unattractive.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 02:47 AM
Hey... I just had an idea.

Maybe it's good, maybe not.

Lloyd, you seem to have a preference for detailed moral codes and very traditional styles of establishing relationships. Are you already involved in a church?

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 03:17 AM
Also, thinking not about you specifically but about ADHD in general:

Some of us have mannerisms or ways of interacting that others find off-putting.

sarahsweets
11-04-16, 04:45 AM
I think a lot of the trouble you are having could be your thinking and expectations.

I wish that your statement was true on this.

Our society has become hypersexualized with the advent of 'hookup apps' like Tinder for example.

Good article that supports my previous statement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11915040/Dr-Lucy-Worsley-dating-apps-like-Tinder-are-destroying-the-art-of-romance.html
Ill have ti dig up the source but it was something like 70% of people who use hook-up apps are men which means its not really the women who are looking for hook-ups, they may be using these apps as a way to meet men that they think are also looking to meet women for relationships- not realizing that these apps may not yield relationships like they were hoping for.

STD rates reach record high in United States



http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/20/health/std-statistics-record-high/

From the article:
Men who have sex with men accounted for the majority of new gonorrhea cases last year, and antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea was found to possibly be higher among the group, the new report showed.
Overall, young people and gay and bisexual men face the greatest risk of getting a STD, according to the new report. It's estimated that about half of the nearly 20 million new STD cases reported annually are among 15 to 24 year olds.
Again, it seems like men are more likely to be looking for a hook-up then women, at least based on this article.
This is not to say that women are not looking for a no-strings hook-up, just that its not as common as you say it is.



Women usually choose to be with men who appear to be the most dominant of the pack, prison tats, assertive, makes a lot of money, etc.

I am not sure what made you think this. Its not as common as you think and it could be why you are having trouble. If you already think women are looking for an alpha that has the traits you mentioned, you are already discounting the possibilities out there.






I can't be the only one who sees what's going on here and the way things are going they will throw people like me into mental asylums for having a dissenting point of view or a different way of thinking.

Can you elaborate on this?


INTP personality types have been marked for termination and if people and women think that I'm delusional or crazy then I rather die alone with my convictions than to die on my knees.

The meyers brigg has been proven to not be as accurate when it comes to personality types and matches as people say it is. I dont think anyone should use it to determine their personality or whether or not they are compatible.

namazu
11-04-16, 05:37 AM
Are you already involved in a church?
In his OP, he wrote...
people who want a traditional monogamous relationship without having to deal with organized religion are screwed!
...so I'm guessing that would be a "no".

Some nonsectarian options may include book clubs, folk dance groups, volunteer work, civic organizations...

Toastmasters might also be a good venue -- both for meeting people, and for improving your self-confidence in speaking. I haven't done it myself, but I know at least 2 people who've spoken well of their experiences.


Lloyd, you've often repeated the idea that most women today are interested primarily in rich, alpha-male bad boys (despite several women on the forum indicating that this is far from universal), and you've suggested that women are shallow (and labeled people who don't share your values about relationships as "degenerate scum").

If this apparent contempt for women and others -- even if it's a defensive reaction to having been spurned and marginalized, or a function of exposure to a heavily skewed subset of the population -- comes through in your real-life interactions, that could certainly be off-putting to some women.

I'm not saying that you need to change your beliefs or values, necessarily -- though I don't think your notion of "what women want" stands up to evidence. But consider that the attitude you project to women may be contrary to the "wholesome guy" image you hold of yourself.

You've mentioned how you feel like you're not interesting and don't have anything to say. Instead of trying to be more interesting or fake a charming/dangerous/alpha persona, you may find you can take some pressure off yourself by showing interest in other people.

Take heart. By definition, the majority of men cannot be "alpha-males". And that's OK with most women!

Stevuke79
11-04-16, 05:55 AM
To what Namazu said about being "interested " as opposed to "interesting " (excellent advice), I find that's actually easier to manage with my adhd. It's easy to listen.. ask questions... keep people talking about themselves. Many people love that and it is much less likely to highlight a lack of attention span.

I use it all the time with family, acquaintances, social things. Makes it easier.

Also a great thing namazu said ... if people get the idea that you tend to judge people, it's a small step to think you're judging them too, and it makes people feel uncomfortable.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 09:21 AM
I think namazu pretty much nailed it.

By the way, especially for those with ADHD, all religion becomes disorganized anyway. ;)

aeon
11-04-16, 02:47 PM
Fortunately, each and every woman gets to decide for herself who her “alpha” is, regardless of what the culture-at-large says.

I say fortunately because my sense is that women eat enough culturally-defined **** sandwiches as it is.

---

And that points to something larger...talking about “men,” or “women,” is of little use because relationships are made between and among individuals who have the autonomy to decide for themselves how relationships work, what their values are, and so on.

And I tend to think all those things that make the generalities untrue are what contribute to my finding any given person attractive...because those things make them...so very...human.


Cheers,
Ian

BellaVita
11-04-16, 02:51 PM
And that points to something larger...talking about “men,” or “women,” is of little use because relationships are made between and among individuals who have the autonomy to decide for themselves how relationships work, what their values are, and so on.

Good point. :)

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 03:51 PM
What I'm about to say is way "out on a limb".

I have ADHD, and as far as alpha males I'm about as beta as it gets. :) My wife was even somewhat surprised after meeting me - she thought from the way I look and the way I act that maybe I was gay and maybe I just hadn't realized it yet. :lol: I'm heterosexual, but I look and act sort of feminine, and I tend to have friends who are female. I tend to be uncomfortable around the stereotypical "manly men", and I've certainly felt bad about that fact in the past, though I've never faced any real problems (like discrimination or bullying or whatever) that were directly because of it.

However, I can easily imagine a scenario in which I could have become intensely uncomfortable with that fact of my life and could have decided (unconsciously perhaps) to put it out of my life by trying to out-alpha the alphas and "make myself into a man".

By being who I am, without apologies and without concessions to what I think society wants, I have ended up with someone who is perfect for me. If I had been trying to transform my image into that of "a real man" (whatever that means, last I checked I'm a man ;) ), then we never would have found each other and I'd be lonely in a basement apartment someplace.

Be who you are, not what a man (or woman or anything else) is supposed to be. Maybe not many people want someone who is unusual (or maybe they do!), but nobody wants a false persona.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 05:35 PM
OK, here goes.

Men don't chose women, women choose the man.

If a woman is pretty, ADD or not, she will get dates.
A pretty lonely woman is that way by choice, waiting for her Prince charming.

A guy with ADD repels women because women look to men as 'providers' and a woman has an innate sense to 'detect' men that may not make the cut it seems.

So, when the women on here say that she will come along, that is coming from their POV in the real world, for you it's been 11 years, for me, over a year, and I am a decent looking guy and I am 6'2'.

btw, 'Fudgy', my female cat wants me, hey, at least some female wants me.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 05:43 PM
80% of the women out there are after 20% of the men (alpha males)
Those 20% of the men are dating 80% of the date-able women.

That's why a lot of guys get no dates, but a few can't shake the women off their arms.

Nobody said nature was fair.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 06:28 PM
OK, here goes.

Men don't chose women, women choose the man.

If a woman is pretty, ADD or not, she will get dates.
A pretty lonely woman is that way by choice, waiting for her Prince charming.

A guy with ADD repels women because women look to men as 'providers' and a woman has an innate sense to 'detect' men that may not make the cut it seems.

So, when the women on here say that she will come along, that is coming from their POV in the real world, for you it's been 11 years, for me, over a year, and I am a decent looking guy and I am 6'2'.
I can't agree with this because it just isn't true. It might be true sometimes in some places for some people - but certainly not all the time.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 06:30 PM
80% of the women out there are after 20% of the men (alpha males)
Those 20% of the men are dating 80% of the date-able women.

That's why a lot of guys get no dates, but a few can't shake the women off their arms.

Nobody said nature was fair.
I've never met (or even seen) these mythical woman-stealing demons you're talking about.

aeon
11-04-16, 07:30 PM
I am a decent looking guy and I am 6'2'.

You could be great looking, indeed, a prize specimen, but I am going to guess that when women make use of
that innate sense you mentioned, and “detect” your perspective and attitude, it isn’t going to matter whether
you have a winning genetic lottery ticket or not, and you may as well be 5'5" tall. :lol:

Lulz,
Ian

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 08:42 PM
Oh my Gawd people!

Don't mince the facts, for the most part this is true and the inescapable fact of biology.

Perhaps a lot of it is my poor socialising skilz, maybe it's because of ????, but I am a decent person and to assume I am not because I sez it like it is, well, believe as you will.



dvdnvwls, are you female?

Women don't understand the male POV, especially the lonely guy.

See it as being sexist, no sense hiding things behind the cloak of PCness and decorating things with lolloipops and rainbows with a dash of cinnamon.
I just can't stand people who kiss boo-boos and tell people that these are the things that dreams are made of and every lonely person just has to sit back and wait for
Miss. Nicegal to be waiting for you around the corner.

For Lloyd it's been far too long, he has heard it all, all the nice BS people tell him. For him, that's all it is, candy coated crap!

Reality blows, sometimes a little, sometimes like a hurricane.

Where's that Lloyd?

Little Missy
11-04-16, 09:00 PM
He's probably on a date! :D

namazu
11-04-16, 09:03 PM
Reality blows, sometimes a little, sometimes like a hurricane.
Yeah, that's sometimes true.

You're right that those of us who are not lonely men may not understand your point of view. And I don't think any of us can or should promise Lloyd that "The One" is somewhere out there, waiting to meet him, because it may not be true.

But I can tell you that from my perspective, as someone in a long-term monogamous relationship that does not involve a tall, rich alpha male, and as someone who knows many other (apparently) happy, long-lasting couples with no rich alpha male partner (including several in which the male partner has ADHD and/or autism), that I believe you and Lloyd are misattributing your lack of dating success when you blame it on women preferring rich alpha-males.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 09:11 PM
Well, that's our POV.

How are women going to change that perspective?

It's true though, most women go for the criminal bad boy, the guy with money or the suave smooth talker, none of which I am, which makes me the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept.
I am just a nice honest guy with a dash of Conrad Black at times.

And it seems there are too many here that will jump down someones throat if they disagree with their 'feel good pep talk'

I am a realist.
Sorry about that.

acdc01
11-04-16, 09:15 PM
Women don't understand the male POV, especially the lonely guy.

The problem here isn't that women don't understand the male POV, it's you deciding you know exactly what the vast majority of women's POV is when you don't. When a whole ton of women and men on this thread have already provided tons of examples to the contrary. How incredibly hypocritical and yes, sexist.

You cannot treat women like you know everything and they just don't understand, have an obvious disdain for them and then say - oh and love me. And when they don't, then blame it on them not accepting you for your beliefs. If you don't respect someone, don't expect respect back.

EDIT: just saw your other post. Women aren't responsible for changing the "male POV" (which is really just your own POV). FYI, if you yourself want to continue to think the way you do, well it just means you are probably going to be staying single or destroy any relationship you do develop. As I said, can't expect respect if you don't give it.

namazu
11-04-16, 09:23 PM
It's true though, most women go for the criminal bad boy, the guy with money or the suave smooth talker, none of which I am, which makes me the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept.
You keep saying this, but that doesn't make it true. Repetition is not evidence.

You may be "the last choice in the pick-a-dude department" because of the poor socializing skills you mentioned above and because you keep claiming you're a "nice guy" while talking down to women.

You asked how women were going to change your perspective. With that attitude, I suspect many women would decide it's not worth the effort to bother. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm a realist, too.)

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 09:30 PM
Well, that's our POV.

How are women going to change that perspective?

It's true though, most women go for the criminal bad boy, the guy with money or the suave smooth talker, none of which I am, which makes me the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept.
I am just a nice honest guy with a dash of Conrad Black at times.

And it seems there are too many here that will jump down someones throat if they disagree with their 'feel good pep talk'

I am a realist.
Sorry about that.
It's very possible that the fact you have this point of view is what's making you "the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept", and not any of the things you've listed as reasons. Blaming women for something that isn't true probably turns them off more than not being a smooth talker.

I can fake being a smooth writer, but I talk in a slow clumsy way that's often hard to follow and filled with lame puns. I'm not rich. (OK that's an understatement :)) I'm not a criminal bad boy, unless my warnings for parking my car too long in one spot and driving with a burnt out headlight count. :) I'm not noticeably good looking - from the way you describe, you're much better looking than I am.

But I don't say women are stupid and shallow and all looking for the same thing, and I can prove by showing you this nice shiny ring that I recently got at least one date. See? :)

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 09:46 PM
It's 'skilz'

You people got me pegged as an A-hole.

Yet, I am a guy, trying to emphasize with a fellow guy on an internet forum. Where words don't accurately indicate character.


A lot of people are telling him what you THINK he wants to hear, yet he has heard it all before.

And 'I' am the bad guy. (hear that ladies, I'm bad!)

Judgemental bunch, WoW.

I find that a lot of women say they are like this, but are really like that.
Tell me, why do I and so many other guys think the same way?

Because woman are 'too nice' to tell it the way it is, they will tell you that money, suaviness, and bad boyness makes no difference, but everyday they prove themselves the opposite of what they say.

Now for one thing, I assume we all here have ADD, and I would have to say that ADD/ADHD women are probably different, I am pretty sure my ex was ADHD, she was generous, didn't care that I was not 'all that', honest, but had anxiety and anger issues and I was with her for 15 years and she thought the world of me.

And I must admit, I am choosy, I can have a gf if I wanted, so long as she is old and/or not very attractive, but generally that more attractive and 'normal' she is, the more the 'alpha' of the males she will choose.

So there you have it.
Us dudes want pretty.
You chicks want money, suave, and bad.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 09:59 PM
I don't consider you an A-hole. Just showed you that maybe some of your assumptions are off. Please consider the possibility, at least.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 10:23 PM
And you guys are 100% right.
And biology and natural selection play no part in human relationships.

And a lot of women do not choose alpha male stereotypes, right.

That I am wrong, and you guys are correct.

Is that what you are saying?

Can you maybe think that maybe some of what you espouse, are assumptions that are off?

That women as part of biology would not choose an arrogant rich guy over a nice poor guy.

Excuse me, I'm hunting roaches.
If I find them, I am gonna smoke 'em all!

aeon
11-04-16, 10:24 PM
Don't mince the facts, for the most part this is true and the inescapable fact of biology.

There was a basis in science, as we understand it, in most of what you said, yet at the same time it was so generalized it became hyperbolic and served little purpose other than fodder for a mini-rant.

Perhaps a lot of it is my poor socialising skilz, maybe it's because of ????, but I am a decent person and to assume I am not because I sez it like it is, well, believe as you will.

I don’t question that you are a decent person—I’ll take your word for it, and believe that until you give me reason to think otherwise.

That said, based on your posts in this thread, I do question your judgment and your attitude.

Women don't understand the male POV, especially the lonely guy.

This is a perfect example of why I question your judgment. You have made an assertion that you know the nature of the mind of all women.

I don’t think that is true, and I suppose that which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

That said, if you actually believe this to be true, I question on what basis such a belief would be made, which leads back to my questioning your judgment.

Claims of possession of facts and “saying it like it is” seems like puffery when those actions are based on things which you cannot substantiate, much less know.

See it as being sexist, no sense hiding things behind the cloak of PCness and decorating things with lolloipops and rainbows with a dash of cinnamon.
I just can't stand people who kiss boo-boos and tell people that these are the things that dreams are made of and every lonely person just has to sit back and wait for
Miss. Nicegal to be waiting for you around the corner.

On this I agree with you.

For Lloyd it's been far too long, he has heard it all, all the nice BS people tell him. For him, that's all it is, candy coated crap!

Well, I didn’t give him any of that, and I was explicit about not doing so.

At the same time, you’re painting a similar picture, inverted and dysphoric, but still just as much an escapist fantasy.

Reality blows, sometimes a little, sometimes like a hurricane.

If you choose to judge it as such, I guess so, but given you have a choice, why would you?

Where's that Lloyd?

Hopefully enjoying himself, as he would define that.


Cheers,
Ian

finallyfound10
11-04-16, 10:32 PM
Lloyd,

I get it! I was a much emotionally healthier person when I was younger and emotional intimacy was with the men was easier. I didn't do drugs or drink (I'm a teetotaler actually)but my issues hadn't gotten they best of me yet.

Anyone who is in the place to even consider dating is doing great in my eyes since I am still so far from there and may never be there again.

Not all women want Alpha males either. I've dated Alphas and Betas and had good and bad experiences but not because of that aspect.

Steve mentioned hobbies often draw people together which we know is true. Meetup.com is a great site with hundreds of different types of interests that bring people together. Yes, there are dating groups but there are far more groups of people sharing the same interests such as organic food, pizza, politics, dancing, coding, religion, books, etc. or issues. I belong to an Anxiety and Depression group that has been helpful. There is an ADHD group but I don't go to that one as I think the facilitator is just trying to get people into his counseling practice.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 10:47 PM
aeon, have you considered that my off faculties could be.....drum roll............that just maybe I have ADD?

Good thing everyone else here is 100% with mental faculties intact.

You come off as rude, I did not attack anybody here personally, yet you did to me.

What kind of a person does that maketh thou?

Eh?!

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 10:57 PM
Hey... I just had an idea.

Maybe it's good, maybe not.

Lloyd, you seem to have a preference for detailed moral codes and very traditional styles of establishing relationships. Are you already involved in a church?

No I am not involved in a church or any organized religious cult.

I don't understand why people have this common notion that moral and traditionalists of society do not exist outside of "consecrated grounds", in fact it couldn't be more further from the truth.

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 11:06 PM
It's very possible that the fact you have this point of view is what's making you "the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept", and not any of the things you've listed as reasons. Blaming women for something that isn't true probably turns them off more than not being a smooth talker.

I can fake being a smooth writer, but I talk in a slow clumsy way that's often hard to follow and filled with lame puns. I'm not rich. (OK that's an understatement :)) I'm not a criminal bad boy, unless my warnings for parking my car too long in one spot and driving with a burnt out headlight count. :) I'm not noticeably good looking - from the way you describe, you're much better looking than I am.

But I don't say women are stupid and shallow and all looking for the same thing, and I can prove by showing you this nice shiny ring that I recently got at least one date. See? :)
I did not say all, perhaps somewhere I inadvertently did, I said a lot, or most. And another thing, do you really think that I woo women in that manner by blaming them for being women and saying they are all c***s?
Get real, I am probably closer to Charlie Brown and the red head girl. You are mistaking words on a forum as a basis for my behavior, but really I think in a scientific manner and I see things the way they are, why are women, a lot of them (not all) called hypergamous?

I was dating a nice girl from out of town, she saw that my house was still a mess after my ex moved out, she broke it off, my experience as a guy says that women in general look for ways to disqualify a guy instead of qualifying a guy, they look at what he does, not who he is. I am not a jerk, my faculties are not that far off, but, because I have opinions that differ from your own, doesn't give you the right to assume I am having trouble with finding women to date is all my fault.

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 11:08 PM
How incredibly hypocritical and yes, sexist.



Remember that misogynists are really just male feminists and they BOTH deserve one another. ;)

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 11:09 PM
No I am not involved in a church or any organized religious cult.

I don't understand why people have this common notion that moral and traditionalists of society do not exist outside of "consecrated grounds", in fact it couldn't be more further from the truth.
I am an atheist.

I get you Lloyd.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 11:12 PM
No I am not involved in a church or any organized religious cult.

I don't understand why people have this common notion that moral and traditionalists of society do not exist outside of "consecrated grounds", in fact it couldn't be more further from the truth.
Some of your stated attitudes sounded similar to those embraced by some religious groups. I hadn't read the part where you said you're not going to get involved in religion. A mistake on my part - sorry.

dvdnvwls
11-04-16, 11:15 PM
Remember that misogynists are really just male feminists and they BOTH deserve one another. ;)
Go find a feminist then - there are lots. :)

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 11:16 PM
I was dating a nice girl from out of town, she saw that my house was still a mess after my ex moved out, she broke it off, my experience as a guy says that women in general look for ways to disqualify a guy instead of qualifying a guy,


On that biological/primitive level humans are not exempt from the laws of the "mating ritual". Women on that biological level women will look for the best mate in order to ensure her progeny will survive.

Just hope she doesn't eat you after it's all been said and done. :eek:

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 11:18 PM
You keep saying this, but that doesn't make it true. Repetition is not evidence.

You may be "the last choice in the pick-a-dude department" because of the poor socializing skills you mentioned above and because you keep claiming you're a "nice guy" while talking down to women.

You asked how women were going to change your perspective. With that attitude, I suspect many women would decide it's not worth the effort to bother. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I'm a realist, too.)

I blame the garbage the media puts out on TV and in books for the bad choices both women and men make. Pointing the finger at one another is apart of the problem as well.

Lloyd_
11-04-16, 11:19 PM
Go find a feminist then - there are lots. :)

Are you trying to imply I'm a misogynist? That couldn't be any more further from the truth. :rolleyes:

FogNoggin
11-04-16, 11:34 PM
I blame the garbage the media puts out on TV and in books for the bad choices both women and men make. Pointing the finger at one another is apart of the problem as well.
TV promotes hypergamy to sell products.

Mind control.

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:04 AM
My last comment was excessive. What you're saying about women does tend, though, to make it sound as if you dislike women in general.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:38 AM
My last comment was excessive. What you're saying about women does tend, though, to make it sound as if you dislike women in general.
No, i love women, and sometimes hate that I do.
Mainly because I am an 'overthinker' which promotes awkwardness, which I am aware of, that makes me feel awkward.
Like looking in a mirror in a mirror, or a vidcam filming the monitor type of thinking.

I feel awkward about my awkwardness, and that makes me awkward, and because of that I feel awkward, which in turn, makes me awkward.
Which makes me feel awkward.
And that causes me to be awkward........................................

So you can have your damn PI and eat it too!

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:41 AM
But I don't always feel awkward, only when I am, concerned about what to say, act like, and do, and hoping she likes me.
I am best when I can shut up that sack of grey matter and just not care. I think not wanting to be with her is the best way to get her.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:44 AM
No, i love women, and sometimes hate that I do.
Mainly because I am an 'overthinker' which promotes awkwardness, which I am aware of, that makes me feel awkward.
Like looking in a mirror in a mirror, or a vidcam filming the monitor type of thinking.

I feel awkward about my awkwardness, and that makes me awkward, and because of that I feel awkward, which in turn, makes me awkward.
Which makes me feel awkward.
And that causes me to be awkward........................................

So you can have your damn PI and eat it too!
Heh!, wasn't for me, but still stands.

Fuzzy12
11-05-16, 12:48 AM
On that biological/primitive level humans are not exempt from the laws of the "mating ritual". Women on that biological level women will look for the best mate in order to ensure her progeny will survive.

Just hope she doesn't eat you after it's all been said and done. :eek:

Even in nature, not all females look for thr strongest alpha-est male. Look up tournament and pair bonded species. Humans fall somewhere in between. :)

aeon
11-05-16, 12:54 AM
Tell me, why do I and so many other guys think the same way?

At this point in my life I’ve known dozens of guys well enough to know they think that same way.

Those guys have all had three things in common:


They’ve never actually had a mutually-rewarding, reciprocal intimate relationship with a woman
where she is regarded as, and engaged with, as an equal partner. Don’t get me wrong, some of those
guys had girlfriends, and some were married, but the reasons for their relationships were something
altogether different (as expressed to me), e.g., objectification along psychological/societal/sexual
lines, value as social capital, using her to meet needs, codependency, meeting others’ expectations
(and their own)...the success of the relationship was defined by measure of what he was getting out of it,
and the nature of the relationship was always self-directed. To some degree, the woman was functionally
regarded as a living object whose worth was based on those things she could offer him that he valued or
desired. For some, it was what they knew, and they had it modeled to them in being reared by their parents.

They all refused to accept responsibility for their person and their situation, whatever those things
were at the time, because doing so would require significant personal growth which would come at significant
cost. Sometimes being comfortable seems a better choice, especially if the current situation is yielding many
benefits, but there is an axiom that says comfort zones are wonderful places, but nothing ever grows there.
Many of these guys had poor self-esteem, trauma histories, troubled familial relationships, substance abuse
issues, infidelity, and so on. The choice to not address those things and maintain a status quo, however
comfortable, has a couple of consequences, namely, a lack of self-acceptance and intimacy with
oneself results in an inability to accept others and be intimate with them, and; as long as one believes
happiness/fulfillment is something one must find external to oneself, one will never accept the responsibility
of creating it for oneself, of daring to live life on one’s own terms, where one alone bears the risk of being
happy or unhappy, and either way, owns that outcome 100%.

They all engaged in willful cognitive distortions so as to facilitate and maintain #1 and #2 above,
as well as to hide those dynamics from their own conscious awareness. This was fueled by the combination of
those things they had experienced in life, and those things they had been taught by others, resulting in a
powerful confirmation bias. Also, inasmuch as the mind will work, consciously and otherwise, so as to
make manifest that which it believes to be right as a means of defense of the psychologhical self,
these cognitive distortions could have as a consequence powerful episodes of self-sabotage that, unsurprisingly,
had their trigger in a perceived change in the quality/value/stability of their relationships, good or bad.

To be fair, the above describes a few women I have known as well.

Sometimes the above will make someone seem a risk such that they remain single. Sometimes the above will
make someone seem exciting, but not usually in a way that contributes to a partner’s well-being, or their own.

And sometimes, someone will commit to doing the work necessary for the personal growth required to
transcend the above, and they do the work, and they learn who they are, what they need, and what they
could well and truly offer someone else. They get busy living the life they want, as they define it, and that
includes creating and negotiating relationships with others because they learned how to do that when
they learned to love their own person first. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Yaisse.gif


Cheers,
Ian

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 01:13 AM
No, i love women, and sometimes hate that I do.
Mainly because I am an 'overthinker' which promotes awkwardness, which I am aware of, that makes me feel awkward.
Like looking in a mirror in a mirror, or a vidcam filming the monitor type of thinking.

I feel awkward about my awkwardness, and that makes me awkward, and because of that I feel awkward, which in turn, makes me awkward.
Which makes me feel awkward.
And that causes me to be awkward........................................

So you can have your damn PI and eat it too!
I'm not sure the right way to ask this, but here goes...

Are you sure that you love women in the same way you wish they would love you?

aeon
11-05-16, 01:14 AM
aeon, have you considered that my off faculties could be.....drum roll............that just maybe I have ADD?

In that way we are equals then. :)

You come off as rude, I did not attack anybody here personally, yet you did to me.

I did not attack your person, indeed, I affirmed you. I did, however, question things you have control over. That is neither an attack or a judgment.

I try not to be rude in most all situations, but I made a decision to call out the things you said because I found them to not only be without merit, but offensive in their disrespect to both men and women.

What kind of a person does that maketh thou?

Eh?!

No “kind” of person at all. Just a person, like you.

Sometimes I mis-step, sometimes I trespass. If I did so with you, I apologize for giving you cause to feel attacked.


Cheers,
Ian

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:30 AM
My next woman better be independent, because, after all, i do have ADD.

And to me, right now, if I don't meet that independent woman, it ain't gonna work, because otherwise the relation**** is going to be a burden.

At this point in time, I need to focus on me. Because I have to.

And aeon, man, hate to be a critic, but that last post #71 was DRY, and I don't say that because of our 'debate differences'. I just nearly fell asleep trying to read it all.
Like reading a beard trimmer manual. Or instructions on how to program a bread machine.

Summarize, humourise, not euthanise!

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:34 AM
I'm not sure the right way to ask this, but here goes...

Are you sure that you love women in the same way you wish they would love you?
Well, it would stand to reason that one would want to be wanted like you would want to love them.

What kind of a question is that anyway?
(I wasn't sure how to ask that.)

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 01:40 AM
Well, it would stand to reason that one would want to be wanted like you would want to love them.
So, do you or don't you? Your response isn't clear.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:42 AM
In that way we are equals then. :)



I did not attack your person, indeed, I affirmed you. I did, however, question things you have control over. That is neither an attack or a judgment.





Ahem, my Mental "cough' faculties, cough, cough, are 'cough' off.

(Ya sorta forgot to shoehorn that in there)
wink wink, nudge, nudge.

But I am tougher than that, it's an internet forum, I won't lose any sleep, and if I do, it's ADD related, or sleep apnea, or whatever, gotta pee every hour, whatever.
:)

namazu
11-05-16, 01:47 AM
At this point in time, I need to focus on me. Because I have to.
That seems like an excellent plan.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:50 AM
So, do you or don't you? Your response isn't clear.
Your question, makes me question the question in your question.

So; you mean one of us is not loving in the right way?
How would I know that? Because, if I did know that, I'd do it different.

My issue is situational anxiety, maybe I will look into a heroin addiction to mellow out a bit.
(what a brillaint plan! Unlike the way I spelt brilliant, damn, spelt is not a work, and yes, I took care of them roaches! ;) )

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:51 AM
Not a 'work' a 'word'

(facepalms self)

aeon
11-05-16, 01:51 AM
And aeon, man, hate to be a critic, but that last post #71 was DRY, and I don't say that because of our 'debate differences'. I just nearly fell asleep trying to read it all.
Like reading a beard trimmer manual. Or instructions on how to program a bread machine.

Summarize, humourise, not euthanise!

Yeah, it did end up being a real block of text.

Being up way past when I should have gone to bed, not having eaten properly all day, and having my meds fade out all helped to create post #71. That’s an explanation, not an excuse, heh. :p

I didn’t have the time or energy to make it shorter. :o


Cheers,
Ian

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:54 AM
I understand, was only meant as constructive criticism.

sarahsweets
11-05-16, 08:21 AM
A lot of people are telling him what you THINK he wants to hear, yet he has heard it all before.
I know that off the top of my head that I, and others (like namazu,dvd et. al) have not been telling Lloyd what we think he wants to hear. I think we are probably saying what he doesnt want to hear. Telling him what we think he would want to hear would go something like "yea, all those women want are money and looks..yea youre right bro!"
We are not saying that.

And 'I' am the bad guy. (hear that ladies, I'm bad!)

Judgemental bunch, WoW.

You get to be judgmental and paint all women with an incredibly wide brush-but we do not get to refute that- and if we do, WE are being judgmental?

I find that a lot of women say they are like this, but are really like that.
Tell me, why do I and so many other guys think the same way?

Because for 100's of years it has been acceptable to blame women when things do not go your way-thats why.

And I must admit, I am choosy, I can have a gf if I wanted, so long as she is old and/or not very attractive, but generally that more attractive and 'normal' she is, the more the 'alpha' of the males she will choose.

So there you have it.
Us dudes want pretty.
You chicks want money, suave, and bad.
well I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt until you brought it back to how only ugly old women would be the kind of women lucky enough to date you.

sarahsweets
11-05-16, 09:01 AM
I wonder how many real life examples, at least from here you would consider enough to perhaps alter your view on how you see the majority of women? The majority of the responses from both men and women have tried to share examples of how what you say doesnt apply to them.

I'll share my own:
I never dated alpha males. I had all the trapping to- bad childhood and unhealthy relationships with men, But I just didnt. My one long term BF before my husband (from age 16-18) was into theater like me, very gentle and was actually teased because he was a bit too gentle for most norms. I met my husband when I was 18. He was super quiet- straight laced-not a risk taker- and many would say because he is so reserved that he didnt get into confrontations, a scaredy cat. I pursued him because (as trite as it sounds) the first day I met him, I heard a voice or had a thought deep inside that I would marry him.

So I broke up with the first non-alpha male and pursued my husband- the quiet non-alpha male with no money. I met him in december-we began dating in april and were engaged that October when I was 19 and married the following september when I was 20. We were both still in college and so poor. We never had enough money-had a baby and both managed to get done with school.

His major was geology. He ended up hating his career-quit and enrolled in an apprenticeship for trade school. I had a degree but had no time to pursue a career because I had to be the other income. Plus- once child 3 was born by the time I was 28- it made sense for me to stay home with them and I also have awful BPII so working became lethal for me at the time.

I adore him and we still never have enough money and cant spoil our kids-have a great appreciation for all things thrift and good deals. He is my soul mate and I knew it when I was 19- and supposed to be looking for some bad boy or rich guy.

I say this not to brag- or make anyone feel inferior to me. I know I am so very fortunate. I know that people spend lifetimes looking for what I was lucky enough to find years ago.
I know that its more rare than common.
I hope I dont make anyone envious because thats not my intention.

We beat the odds and stats. We have been married for 21 years- all things that went the wrong way and should have made life bad- actually worked for us.
I just wanted to share a success story- whether or not you validate my experience or value it is up to you.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 11:47 AM
I


well I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt until you brought it back to how only ugly old women would be the kind of women lucky enough to date you.

I didn't say that.
All I said is that I could have a girlfriend tomorrow if I settled for less attractive and/or older. I did not say they are lucky and fortunate to date or be with me.

And I was an *** going on a rant, but I don't totally discount the fact that there are evolutionary forces at work that cause problems in modern society that worked better when we lived in caves.
The male drive to accumulate wealth to attract women is helping to destroy our planet.

Do you discount the fact that a man with a lot of money is far more attractive to women? Or because it sounds shallow you choose to ignore those facts?

Now, I don't believe all women are like that, but a lot of them are.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:03 PM
I am coming from the position that for a man with ADD to meet his soul mate is far more difficult than a woman with ADD.

The criteria that a lot of women see in a man is based on her view as him being capable as fitting a provider role.

For a man with ADD it's a real mental burden.
Women don't see that.

For a man, wether a woman has a job or not or lots of money has a minor role in attraction for a man.
Is she attractive enough?
Is she sane?

The hurdles for a woman with ADD are far, far lower. to find a mate.

ADD just works against a male finding a mate.

I know, because I AM a male with ADD.

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:04 PM
Your question, makes me question the question in your question.

So; you mean one of us is not loving in the right way?
How would I know that? Because, if I did know that, I'd do it different.

My issue is situational anxiety, maybe I will look into a heroin addiction to mellow out a bit.
(what a brillaint plan! Unlike the way I spelt brilliant, damn, spelt is not a work, and yes, I took care of them roaches! ;) )
I'm not trying to create a competition between you and me. I'm done with dating.

I'm trying to persuade you to consider in depth the comparison between the love you have for women and the love you want them to have for you; to take the situation apart piece by piece and analyze it, and to describe all the details right here.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:08 PM
I still don't get it, love is reciprocal.

That's why my ex is my ex, she loved me more than I did her.

midnightstar
11-05-16, 12:16 PM
I still don't get it, love is reciprocal.

That's why my ex is my ex, she loved me more than I did her.

I think what dvd is trying to say is that if you stick with the idea of women all want rich handsome alpha males etc and keep talking about "being worthless to women" women are going to think "well he's tarring all of us with the same brush, why should we get to know him better" and reject you which is just going to cause you to fixate even more on that idea, which is going to drive women away more - see a pattern?

Whereas if you were to act like you're a confident attractive male, women will be drawn to the confidence you're showing and your confidence will grow cause there's women paying attention to you and you'll stand a chance of getting the woman you want. Does this make sense? :grouphug:

BellaVita
11-05-16, 12:20 PM
It's very possible that the fact you have this point of view is what's making you "the last choice in the pick-a-dude dept", and not any of the things you've listed as reasons. Blaming women for something that isn't true probably turns them off more than not being a smooth talker.

I can fake being a smooth writer, but I talk in a slow clumsy way that's often hard to follow and filled with lame puns. I'm not rich. (OK that's an understatement :)) I'm not a criminal bad boy, unless my warnings for parking my car too long in one spot and driving with a burnt out headlight count. :) I'm not noticeably good looking (although my wife thinks I am) - from the way you describe, you're much better looking than I am.

But I don't say women are stupid and shallow and all looking for the same thing, and I can prove by showing you this nice shiny ring that I recently got at least one date. See? :)

I think this is a fairly accurate description of the real-life example.

Except there was a part that was nagging at me - so I added it. Only because I just have an OCD-type issue with facts.

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:25 PM
Sort of what midnightstar said...

I don't mean loving one's ex, I mean women in general. Because of saying something like "Of course I love women" while at the same time making all the other comments about what women supposedly want. I'm not convinced that loving women and making those claims are compatible thoughts for one brain to contain. :)

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:27 PM
BellaVita - I see your little edit there - thanks. :)

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:32 PM
I think what dvd is trying to say is that if you stick with the idea of women all want rich handsome alpha males etc and keep talking about "being worthless to women" women are going to think "well he's tarring all of us with the same brush, why should we get to know him better" and reject you which is just going to cause you to fixate even more on that idea, which is going to drive women away more - see a pattern?

Whereas if you were to act like you're a confident attractive male, women will be drawn to the confidence you're showing and your confidence will grow cause there's women paying attention to you and you'll stand a chance of getting the woman you want. Does this make sense? :grouphug:
It does make sense.
But then I don't display to a woman that I desire what I did display here.

My last successful date, I adopted an 'I don't care' attitude, not that I wasn't caring, but in my mind that resolved a lot of anxiety, which is unattractive to women. The more I want her, the higher my failure rate.
The less I want her, the higher my confidence appears.

So I convinced myself that I couldn't care if I was successful with her or not, it just took a less than tidy house to get her to leave me, thanks ADD.

My attitude will help me to avoid that which I don't desire in a woman.
Why do I want a girl who cares more about my bank account or how neat and tidy my house is, than the person I am?

BellaVita
11-05-16, 12:35 PM
It does make sense.
But then I don't display to a woman that I desire what I did display here.

My last successful date, I adopted an 'I don't care' attitude, not that I wasn't caring, but in my mind that resolved a lot of anxiety, which is unattractive to women. The more I want her, the higher my failure rate.
The less I want her, the higher my confidence appears.

So I convinced myself that I couldn't care if I was successful with her or not, it just took a less than tidy house to get her to leave me, thanks ADD.

My attitude will help me to avoid that which I don't desire in a woman.
Why do I want a girl who cares more about my bank account or how neat and tidy my house is, than the person I am?

That must've hurt, someone leaving you just because your house was a bit messy.

Sorry you went through that. :grouphug:

midnightstar
11-05-16, 12:39 PM
You don't want someone who cares more about your bank account than who you are as a person, you want a woman who can accept you for who you are as a person, not what your bank balance says :)

What I personally find offputting is when a man goes down the route of "all women are only after ________ "(insert something on that line) or go down the route of "all women are weak and helpless and they cannot do anything for themselves, us men have to protect them from every tiny little thing" (like say for example thinking that women need protecting from the invisible man or whatever), I am not referring to a man protecting a woman from something that actually does scare the woman, I'm talking about him protecting her from imaginary dangers.

idk if I am making sense here.

Fuzzy12
11-05-16, 12:40 PM
It does make sense.
But then I don't display to a woman that I desire what I did display here.

My last successful date, I adopted an 'I don't care' attitude, not that I wasn't caring, but in my mind that resolved a lot of anxiety, which is unattractive to women. The more I want her, the higher my failure rate.
The less I want her, the higher my confidence appears.

So I convinced myself that I couldn't care if I was successful with her or not, it just took a less than tidy house to get her to leave me, thanks ADD.

My attitude will help me to avoid that which I don't desire in a woman.
Why do I want a girl who cares more about my bank account or how neat and tidy my house is, than the person I am?

The thing that might put off women is not that you don't care for those few who want a guy with a fat bank account but that you are convinced that the majority of.women are like that. No one likes to be judged or generalised about. Being pronounced guilty till you can prove your innocence.

And very few will want to take.on the battle of convincing you otherwise.

I'm guessing you don't directly make these statements to women you want to date but it might shine through in your attitude though I can't be sure of xourwe.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 12:40 PM
Sort of what midnightstar said...

I don't mean loving one's ex, I mean women in general. Because of saying something like "Of course I love women" while at the same time making all the other comments about what women supposedly want. I'm not convinced that loving women and making those claims are compatible thoughts for one brain to contain. :)

I know it sounds at odds with itself.

If you see something wrong with your favourite soup, like there is a fly in it, are you going to close your eyes and eat the fly?
Or are you going to complain to the soup nazi?
http://marcstevens.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/no-soup-for-you.jpg

midnightstar
11-05-16, 12:46 PM
Just because one woman acts a certain way doesn't mean all women will act the same way though, that's like saying all men will act a certain way just cause one man has acted a certain way.

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:48 PM
It does make sense.
It does? What does?

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:51 PM
I know it sounds at odds with itself.

If you see something wrong with your favourite soup, like there is a fly in it, are you going to close your eyes and eat the fly?
Or are you going to complain to the soup nazi?
You can't take a person back to the customer service desk for repair or replacement. :)

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 12:55 PM
I'm guessing that the "I don't care" attitude was "I don't care if she likes me or not, I have to be myself and not pretend I'm one of those other men".

I hope you continue that.

But let her not be one of those other women either. Let her be who she is, not who you think she is. Give her the same chance you want for yourself.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:03 PM
You don't want someone who cares more about your bank account than who you are as a person, you want a woman who can accept you for who you are as a person, not what your bank balance says :)

What I personally find offputting is when a man goes down the route of "all women are only after ________ "(insert something on that line) or go down the route of "all women are weak and helpless and they cannot do anything for themselves, us men have to protect them from every tiny little thing" (like say for example thinking that women need protecting from the invisible man or whatever), I am not referring to a man protecting a woman from something that actually does scare the woman, I'm talking about him protecting her from imaginary dangers.

idk if I am making sense here.
A man WANTS to be her hero.
But when he can't, or when she wants what he doesn't have, that's when men become critical of female behaviour.
Like I said before, seems women spend more effort trying to disqualify a guy than looking to qualify a guy.
One little fault, and YOU are toast.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:04 PM
Just because one woman acts a certain way doesn't mean all women will act the same way though, that's like saying all men will act a certain way just cause one man has acted a certain way.
Never said they are all that way, I am saying that too many are that way.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:07 PM
I'm guessing that the "I don't care" attitude was "I don't care if she likes me or not, I have to be myself and not pretend I'm one of those other men".

I hope you continue that.

But let her not be one of those other women either. Let her be who she is, not who you think she is. Give her the same chance you want for yourself.

That's it, hit the nail square on!

midnightstar
11-05-16, 01:09 PM
A man WANTS to be her hero.
But when he can't, or when she wants what he doesn't have, that's when men become critical of female behaviour.
Like I said before, seems women spend more effort trying to disqualify a guy than looking to qualify a guy.
One little fault, and YOU are toast.

The whole wanting to be her hero can be taken to extremes though, like say for example treating her like a helpless child who can't even wash her own body etc, instead of protecting her from things she's actually scared of or helping her with things she finds difficult, deciding that she cannot do anything without you pretty much doing it all for her without her even needing help with it.

Also, saying that all women look for reasons to disqualify a man than reasons to qualify him, that's not even true of most women. I'm sorry if the women in your real life are like that, but please don't tar all of us with the same brush.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:17 PM
I am just seeing a pattern as a guy, and I see it as true, one little thing (like female Jerry Seinfelds) I feel I am being observed for that one disqualifying fault, or maybe she is looking for an excuse to bail?

I really don't know, I am not a mind reader 80% of the time.

And being her hero, I'll don my cape when I get the cue.
I don't make a display of myself and my super powers, but if there is a need, and a handy phone booth.................................

midnightstar
11-05-16, 01:24 PM
I am just seeing a pattern as a guy, and I see it as true, one little thing (like female Jerry Seinfelds) I feel I am being observed for that one disqualifying fault, or maybe she is looking for an excuse to bail?

I really don't know, I am not a mind reader 80% of the time.

And being her hero, I'll don my cape when I get the cue.
I don't make a display of myself and my super powers, but if there is a need, and a handy phone booth.................................

It does sound like she's looking for an excuse to bail every time, the right woman won't want to bail once she's with you, she'll want to stay with you :)

I have no problem with any man helping a woman if the woman actually needs the help, what I have the problem with, like I already said, is men insisting women are these weak little creatures that cannot do anything for themselves and they need men to kiss away all the boo-boo's and the men treat them like you treat a little kid who has fallen over and got mud on them, like "there there it's okay daddy's here" etc instead of seeing whether the woman needs help with whatever then helping them if they need help. Am I making sense here? idk (stressful day)

BellaVita
11-05-16, 01:25 PM
I am just seeing a pattern as a guy, and I see it as true, one little thing (like female Jerry Seinfelds) I feel I am being observed for that one disqualifying fault, or maybe she is looking for an excuse to bail?

I really don't know, I am not a mind reader 80% of the time.

And being her hero, I'll don my cape when I get the cue.
I don't make a display of myself and my super powers, but if there is a need, and a handy phone booth.................................

I guess this has been your experience, and it hasn't been a good one. :grouphug:

Maybe that particular woman you wrote of earlier was just looking for a reason to leave you.

I hope you get to experience a relationship where someone doesn't leave you over something like that.

I'm not sure if this helps, but about the someone left you over your house being messy: I am diagnosed with OCD, and yet I have a husband who has what might be called opposite-OCD. :)

We make it work. It's about respect, learning to understand the other, and accepting the other as they are.

His love and our relationship is way more important to me than those other things. Who he really is is way more important to me than how well I can see the carpet. :)

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 01:41 PM
His love and our relationship is way more important to me than those other things. Who he really is is way more important to me than how well I can see the carpet. :)
There's carpet??? ;)

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:47 PM
It does sound like she's looking for an excuse to bail every time, the right woman won't want to bail once she's with you, she'll want to stay with you :)

I have no problem with any man helping a woman if the woman actually needs the help, what I have the problem with, like I already said, is men insisting women are these weak little creatures that cannot do anything for themselves and they need men to kiss away all the boo-boo's and the men treat them like you treat a little kid who has fallen over and got mud on them, like "there there it's okay daddy's here" etc instead of seeing whether the woman needs help with whatever then helping them if they need help. Am I making sense here? idk (stressful day)
I wouldn't want a helpless woman, like I stated above, I need to focus on me, because right now, I have to.
I want an independent minded woman, but who makes me feel needed at times, it's a biological need for men to feel important in a woman life.
Like when my ex talked on the phone about things I have fixed, that makes me feel like a hero, fixing broken things because it uses my inborn talents.

But when I am called upon every 5 minutes to reach a can of beans or some other menial task because 'that's a mans job', or commanded to shovel the F'n driveway, that repels me.
Pick up a shovel, find a stool, my super hero powers are not to be taken for granted!

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 01:51 PM
There's carpet??? ;)
Last time I did a dig I discovered faux wood flooring and sticky wood print tiles.

Greyhound1
11-05-16, 01:58 PM
A man WANTS to be her hero.
But when he can't, or when she wants what he doesn't have, that's when men become critical of female behaviour.
Like I said before, seems women spend more effort trying to disqualify a guy than looking to qualify a guy.
One little fault, and YOU are toast.

It sounds like you have been disqualifying attractive women because you think they all are looking for money and Alpha males.

Aren't you doing the same thing you claim attractive women do by disqualifying them?

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 01:59 PM
Last time I did a dig I discovered faux wood flooring and sticky wood print tiles.
Sticky stuff is always bad to find when excavating. But worse if it was alive, and worst if it is now alive in a new way.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 02:05 PM
It sounds like you have been disqualifying attractive women because you think they all are looking for money and Alpha males.

Aren't you doing the same thing you claim attractive women do by disqualifying them?
Maybe you are more right than I would like to admit.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 02:09 PM
Sticky stuff is always bad to find when excavating. But worse if it was alive, and worst if it is now alive in a new way.
Sticky back, peel off tiles I meant, the kind you peel off the paper and stick on, that's not to say sticky stuff don't happen, along with cat puke sometimes, but my mess is not a hoarders mess, just less than tidy.

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 02:13 PM
Sticky back, peel off tiles I meant, the kind you peel off the paper and stick on, that's not to say sticky stuff don't happen, along with cat puke sometimes, but my mess is not a hoarders mess, just less than tidy.
I knew. I went on a tangent. :o

BellaVita
11-05-16, 02:21 PM
Maybe you are more right than I would like to admit.

Hey just wanted to point out that I think it was brave of you to say that.

Makes me respect you more.

And I bet having that attitude that you are open to seeing things in a different way could have the positive effect of attracting women. :)

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 02:21 PM
I knew. I went on a tangent. :o

No, these tiles are more perpendicular with their 90 degree angles and such.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 02:26 PM
Hey just wanted to point out that I think it was brave of you to say that.

Makes me respect you more.

And I bet having that attitude that you are open to seeing things in a different way could have the positive effect of attracting women. :)
I am frequently wrong when I thought I was right.
Sometimes I can pigeon hole myself in a certain way of thinking, but not so full of myself to admit when I am wrong.
I am a loner type, I don't have an active social life and don't meet a lot of women.
My experience is limited, but my opinions are bountiful.

Fuzzy12
11-05-16, 02:47 PM
No, these tiles are more perpendicular with their 90 degree angles and such.

:lol:

Fortune
11-05-16, 03:01 PM
Just a reminder:

* Stay on topic
* Sexual harassment and sexual comments are against the forum guidelines.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 03:17 PM
Stay on topic
:lol:

K, I'll try.
Dang you ADD!!!! :mad:

I think my issues with women are ADD related, and my carousel of thoughts in my head that create anxiety.
When I am in the presence of a woman I like, my brain goes chaotic because it is trying to focus on being what I think she wants, but my logic tells me to over-ride that thinking process as useless stinkin' thinkin' that does more harm than good.

Next time I am with a girl I like, I am going to think about what I don't like about her, I am going to imagine she is really ugly, it sounds weird, but if that is what it takes, that is what I will do, or, just think of it as a date, no more, no expectations.
Anything to calm the mind to avoid anxiety.

Usually I have my anxiety under control, which I believe is a normal healthy level of anxiety (but not in my past where it ruled my life) but my inexperience in dating, I place too great an emphasis on my behaviour, who I am, how much I want her and to be loved by her. I have a tough time keeping my anxiety under control.

But getting better (by practicing 'not expecting anything')
The more you want her, the more likely you'll lose her.

Anxiety in a man to a woman is like holy water is to Dracula.

Fuzzy12
11-05-16, 03:21 PM
Stay on topic
:lol:

K, I'll try.
Dang you ADD!!!! :mad:

I think my issues with women are ADD related, and my carousel of thoughts in my head that create anxiety.
When I am in the presence of a woman I like, my brain goes chaotic because it is trying to focus on being what I think she wants, but my logic tells me to over-ride that thinking process as useless stinkin' thinkin' that does more harm than good.

Next time I am with a girl I like, I am going to think about what I don't like about her, I am going to imagine she is really ugly, it sounds weird, but if that is what it takes, that is what I will do, or, just think of it as a date, no more, no expectations.
Anything to calm the mind to avoid anxiety.

Usually I have my anxiety under control, which I believe is a normal healthy level of anxiety (but not in my past where it ruled my life) but my inexperience in dating, I place too great an emphasis on my behaviour, who I am, how much I want her and to be loved by her. I have a tough time keeping my anxiety under control.

But getting better (by practicing 'not expecting anything')
The more you want her, the more likely you'll lose her.

Anxiety in a man to a woman is like holy water is to Dracula.

Also.keep in mind that she might be as anxious as you are and that she too might worry about how to.impress you or how you perceive her.

Also, I. I know that anxiety isn't fun (for the sufferer) but a bit of.nervousness can be cute.

Little Missy
11-05-16, 03:32 PM
So, how is Lloyd doing?

dvdnvwls
11-05-16, 03:36 PM
So, how is Lloyd doing?
He knows we're here but he appears to be busy for significant periods of time and then he returns.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 03:41 PM
Who's Lloyd?

Another thing, if she don't like me for what I am, but I am trying to be what I think she wants.
Will never work, defies logic.

I yam what I yam, if she don't like it I have come to realise she did me a huge favour by bailing.

Little Missy
11-05-16, 04:03 PM
Who's Lloyd?

Another thing, if she don't like me for what I am, but I am trying to be what I think she wants.
Will never work, defies logic.

I yam what I yam, if she don't like it I have come to realise she did me a huge favour by bailing.

Have you experienced many bailers?

BellaVita
11-05-16, 04:15 PM
Lloyd is the OP.

FogNoggin
11-05-16, 04:24 PM
Almost all of them with the exception of my past LTR.

My issue on dates is being anxious, me not being true to myself and ADD.

When I get proper reinforcement that really helps, but sometimes discontinuation is mutual.

But really, I was always 'that guy without a gf' so my dating skills are not great, I don't even want to date women, I just want to let something just happen.

But my LTR was 15 years, I am 47 now (but I look 35), so I have dated a few, but not enough to roll up the carpet and say I am not desirable, but my first date after my LTR was a nice girl, very pretty but peeled when she saw my ADD tidyness, but then again, my ex's stuff was in the process of being moved out and moving is messy.
I thought that was shallow of her, but there were other factors, like her living out of town, etc.
Finding a soul mate is rare, good enough is possible.

But right now, I seek happiness independent of having a mate, unhappy people dependent on someone else to make them happy is repulsive, to myself, and to women.

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 03:51 PM
I appreciate the suggestions a previous poster mentioned about taking ballroom dance lessons, if there is anything more terrifying for me is to totally embarrass myself in front of a woman in the attempt to trying to dance.

:o

Little Missy
11-13-16, 03:58 PM
I appreciate the suggestions a previous poster mentioned about taking ballroom dance lessons, if there is anything more terrifying for me is to totally embarrass myself in front of a woman in the attempt to trying to dance.

:o

You know what? She'd feel the exact same way and right there is where it begins. :)

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 05:33 PM
You know what? She'd feel the exact same way and right there is where it begins. :)

But the difference is women have better motor skills than men and women naturally enjoy to dance whereas the thought terrifies me. :o

I would probably be less afraid of running into a hail of bullets than making an *** out of myself like I'm doing already.

Little Missy
11-13-16, 05:35 PM
But the difference is women have better motor skills than men and women naturally enjoy to dance whereas the thought terrifies me. :o

Wrong!

But hey, if you don't want to dance, don't go. :)

BellaVita
11-13-16, 05:55 PM
But the difference is women have better motor skills than men and women naturally enjoy to dance whereas the thought terrifies me. :o

I would probably be less afraid of running into a hail of bullets than making an *** out of myself like I'm doing already.

I'm quite clumsy (yet also coordinated - I'm good at soccer, but I've practiced that since 2nd grade) in fact I've commented how I don't seem graceful or proper in my movements.

LOL - even when I was in highschool a friend of mine thought it was important to "teach me how to walk" because apparently I had a weird walk. :o

So I disagree with your statement. :)

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 06:00 PM
I'm quite clumsy (yet also coordinated - I'm good at soccer, but I've practiced that since 2nd grade) in fact I've commented how I don't seem graceful or proper in my movements.

LOL - even when I was in highschool a friend of mine thought it was important to "teach me how to walk" because apparently I had a weird walk. :o

So I disagree with your statement. :)

There's always the exception to the rule I suppose.

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 06:01 PM
Wrong!

But hey, if you don't want to dance, don't go. :)

I rather stay in my safe space than to humiliate myself in front of anyone. :o

Little Missy
11-13-16, 06:01 PM
But the difference is women have better motor skills than men and women naturally enjoy to dance whereas the thought terrifies me. :o

I would probably be less afraid of running into a hail of bullets than making an *** out of myself like I'm doing already.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 07:19 PM
Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Are you trying to say I should have more confidence in myself?

Little Missy
11-13-16, 07:51 PM
Are you trying to say I should have more confidence in myself?

I'm not the Magic Eight Ball or Miss Cleo but you could try.

Lloyd_
11-13-16, 08:28 PM
I'm not the Magic Eight Ball or Miss Cleo but you could try.

Yeah, by now I should be used to failure. :lol:

But seriously, I am trying to figure out where this deep fear is coming from...

Is it possible self loathing? Or is this just how some phobias manifest themselves?

dvdnvwls
11-14-16, 03:20 AM
If you choose to stay in your safe space, you are undateable. You may think there are other things, but truly there aren't. Staying in your comfort zone, or getting dates: your choice, one or the other.

dvdnvwls
11-14-16, 03:24 AM
Are you trying to say I should have more confidence in myself?
No. You don't need more confidence in yourself. You need less confidence that you have everything figured out in life, and more reliance on curiosity and possibility.

sarahsweets
11-16-16, 10:23 AM
Good posts btw dvd...
Change requires risks- good or bad- and leaving your comfort zone in order to bring about a change. This means that you need to shelve your ideas about women because honestly-they arent all that accurate-and be open to thinking differently. Then you need to be open to humiliation- if thats what it takes to overcome the fear to be in a committed loving relationship.

Lloyd_
05-16-17, 10:11 PM
No. You don't need more confidence in yourself. You need less confidence that you have everything figured out in life, and more reliance on curiosity and possibility.

The thing is this, relating with people in general has become more difficult into my later life than even when I was younger and was more clueless about things, I know this isn't too healthy but I've spent the past 10 years or so pretty much in almost solitary confinement aside from work and home and maybe a few times a year I might socialize with the few old friends I have left and or some acquaintance. Something has changed inside of me over recent years, I am not the same person, I am a bit more callused and cold. I still am trying to internalize this and figure it out.

dvdnvwls
05-16-17, 10:47 PM
You're out of practice being with people.

On one hand, there's that old bumper sticker "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog" ...

but the truth is, people are an important part of all of our lives, and trying to deny it is futile.

sarahsweets
05-17-17, 04:06 AM
The thing is this, relating with people in general has become more difficult into my later life than even when I was younger and was more clueless about things, I know this isn't too healthy but I've spent the past 10 years or so pretty much in almost solitary confinement aside from work and home and maybe a few times a year I might socialize with the few old friends I have left and or some acquaintance. Something has changed inside of me over recent years, I am not the same person, I am a bit more callused and cold. I still am trying to internalize this and figure it out.

I am not saying this is you but sometimes bitterness can be disguised in ways that we cant see. Sometimes being bitter can show itself in feeling callous and cold but its really resentments or fear that make us feel that way. Maybe your life experiences have colored your view of the world, or its depression. The important thing is not to give up. All life is precious.

aeon
05-17-17, 04:25 PM
Maybe so.

But you're not unloveable.


Cheers,
Ian

Wolfman87
05-18-17, 05:55 PM
Question.

Are any of you members on a dating site? If so, do you write down in your profil that you have ADD/ADHD?
Or is that something you only reveal when the person likes you?

Have big problem talking to people, most of the time to girls, i do not know how to start a conversation or what to ask them even if i read there profile over and over agian, everything i come up with feels wrong and dumb mabey even creepy as i like too joke.

Also if manged to get a answer from girls and send my second messages, the girls always stop answering, like they know something is wrong with me. Like they can see it in the way i expresse myself that i am stupid or mental. Would it be easier if i tell them that i have ADD?

sarahsweets
05-19-17, 03:58 AM
Question.

Are any of you members on a dating site? If so, do you write down in your profil that you have ADD/ADHD?
Or is that something you only reveal when the person likes you?

Have big problem talking to people, most of the time to girls, i do not know how to start a conversation or what to ask them even if i read there profile over and over agian, everything i come up with feels wrong and dumb mabey even creepy as i like too joke.

Also if manged to get a answer from girls and send my second messages, the girls always stop answering, like they know something is wrong with me. Like they can see it in the way i expresse myself that i am stupid or mental. Would it be easier if i tell them that i have ADD?

I am married and never used a dating site but have friends who have. Personally disclosing that is no ones business unless way down the line things are serious enough to warrant discussions about health issues. I think it could sort of be like discriminating against you by having your personal business out there like that. Plus, you dont know what kinds of people troll there. You can get legit people, people peddling illegal stuff, scammers looking to hack, etc. Why give the bad ones more private info than you have to?

Johnny Slick
05-19-17, 10:10 AM
Question.

Are any of you members on a dating site? If so, do you write down in your profil that you have ADD/ADHD?
Or is that something you only reveal when the person likes you?

Have big problem talking to people, most of the time to girls, i do not know how to start a conversation or what to ask them even if i read there profile over and over agian, everything i come up with feels wrong and dumb mabey even creepy as i like too joke.

Also if manged to get a answer from girls and send my second messages, the girls always stop answering, like they know something is wrong with me. Like they can see it in the way i expresse myself that i am stupid or mental. Would it be easier if i tell them that i have ADD?I don't disclose my condition on my profile. I feel like that is prime 3rd date material (or whatever point you're at in the relationship where you start disclosing your life secrets).

As far as starting a conversation goes... man, this is going to sound harsh but proper spelling and grammar means a lot on these things. For one thing, there are spambots out there who get around spam filters on OKC and other places by changing a letter or two in the 50 or 100 messages they send, and people are on guard against that. For another, people are judgey about that kind of thing. I've read several profiles of women who just flat out say "use proper punctuation and spelling in your replies to me or don't bother replying".

Otherwise, you kind of have to make a case for why you want to see the other person, but at the same time it's an audition for both of you. Is there a book or TV show that the other person mentioned that you've both read? Comment on it (if they like it but you think it sucks, maybe don't say that it's garbage though). If they say they like hiking, ask them what trails they've gone on. I do feel like generally speaking, questions are the thing that I shoot for, but that's also because I have the tendency to yammer on about myself. Just, generally, act like you would if you were on an actual blind date, I guess.

One thing I know, too, that I've talked about with some men is that the inability to connect with women is because - and this is going to get even harsher - they don't do a lot of things that women or really even men outside of their own circle of friends find fun and exciting. Different people are going to have wildly different interests than you. At the *very* least I think one ought to approach sites like this with the idea that this other person finds hiking or travel or canoeing or whatever every last bit as engrossing as you find whatever it is that you find engrossing, and that you should want to know why they're so enthused. Ideally, though, I think it's good for *you* to expand your hobbies and if anything that's where the ADHD can almost be an advantage (since we kind of love spontaneity and trying out new things). Take a class. Read a book on a subject you hadn't considered before. Join a group that does stuff you hadn't thought much about doing.

If OKC or other online dating sites aren't your thing because your condition hurts you with the written language, there are other places to meet single women. Bars, for instance. Perhaps your local city has singles' clubs with event nights and stuff.

Finally, I don't think you're going to be able to get around language/grammar-related struggles by disclosing that you have a mental condition. All that's going to happen in a lot of cases, I think, is that people are going to look at the message and say "oh, this person does [X thing that is making you strike out] *and* they have a mental condition I don't want to engage with. That's two strikes". You are not your ADHD. You are a person in your own right who has value. You have a condition you have to deal with, too, but you owe it to yourself to not use ADHD as a crutch or an excuse. Understand what it is and how it interacts with you, sure (and I'm not saying to ignore it if it's debilitating), but also understand that you have worth that has *nothing* to do with the ADHD.

Wolfman87
05-24-17, 09:04 AM
I am married and never used a dating site but have friends who have. Personally disclosing that is no ones business unless way down the line things are serious enough to warrant discussions about health issues. I think it could sort of be like discriminating against you by having your personal business out there like that. Plus, you dont know what kinds of people troll there. You can get legit people, people peddling illegal stuff, scammers looking to hack, etc. Why give the bad ones more private info than you have to?

Thank you for the answer and sorry for the late reply.

After reading your post several times i see that you are right. Its nobodys busniess to know about my issues. Have been strugeling with low selfestem for 5 years now, ever since me and my gf broke up. I have been avoding social contacts with everybody. I started with sertralin, lyrica and ritalin and other drugs that the doctor gave me. Right now i am taking medication for Crohns disease, depression, GAD, social fobi, agora fobi , ADD and pills for helping me too sleep.

BTW. I tought that i have done a major break trough today. Was going too my first date for 5 years. A good looking girl askt me out. But today, first she ask if we can meet two hours later, i say fine. Some time later she says hurt throat hurts. And when i was about to go to the buss i get a new mess that her throat hurts and she can barley speak. So we agreed to cancel and meet a other day. I think she is liar. Me think she used wolfman87 for ego boost and she was just playing with wolfman87.

I

As far as starting a conversation goes... man, this is going to sound harsh but proper spelling and grammar means a lot on these things. For one thing, there are spambots out there who get around spam filters on OKC and other places by changing a letter or two in the 50 or 100 messages they send, and people are on guard against that. For another, people are judgey about that kind of thing. I've read several profiles of women who just flat out say "use proper punctuation and spelling in your replies to me or don't bother replying".

Otherwise, you kind of have to make a case for why you want to see the other person, but at the same time it's an audition for both of you. Is there a book or TV show that the other person mentioned that you've both read? Comment on it (if they like it but you think it sucks, maybe don't say that it's garbage though). If they say they like hiking, ask them what trails they've gone on. I do feel like generally speaking, questions are the thing that I shoot for, but that's also because I have the tendency to yammer on about myself. Just, generally, act like you would if you were on an actual blind date, I guess.

One thing I know, too, that I've talked about with some men is that the inability to connect with women is because - and this is going to get even harsher - they don't do a lot of things that women or really even men outside of their own circle of friends find fun and exciting. Different people are going to have wildly different interests than you. At the *very* least I think one ought to approach sites like this with the idea that this other person finds hiking or travel or canoeing or whatever every last bit as engrossing as you find whatever it is that you find engrossing, and that you should want to know why they're so enthused. Ideally, though, I think it's good for *you* to expand your hobbies and if anything that's where the ADHD can almost be an advantage (since we kind of love spontaneity and trying out new things). Take a class. Read a book on a subject you hadn't considered before. Join a group that does stuff you hadn't thought much about doing.

Finally, I don't think you're going to be able to get around language/grammar-related struggles by disclosing that you have a mental condition. All that's going to happen in a lot of cases, I think, is that people are going to look at the message and say "oh, this person does [X thing that is making you strike out] *and* they have a mental condition I don't want to engage with. That's two strikes". You are not your ADHD. You are a person in your own right who has value. You have a condition you have to deal with, too, but you owe it to yourself to not use ADHD as a crutch or an excuse. Understand what it is and how it interacts with you, sure (and I'm not saying to ignore it if it's debilitating), but also understand that you have worth that has *nothing* to do with the ADHD.

Honest words. And no i did not find them harsh. Its logical what you wrote down :)

Also english is not my first language not even second. So yeah i know my english spelling and grammar is terrible and i know this thing are important to woman when a man makes contact with them. I have no problem with grammar or spelling in the country i live in.

I do ask them about there intrests and i read there profil very carefully. Also i only make contact with girls that i think i have a chance with. I never write to 10/10 girl, i go for 5-7.5/10
However i never go after looks only, if the girl has no profil and only just some pictures i never make contact with them. I try to find girls with similar intrests like me, for exempel soccer(thats real football you yankes ;p) going to games, hockey( go ottawa senetors go) movies, and to the gym, reading history and astromoni and the things that happen around the world. I also like gaming, tv series and animals. Always wanted to be a vet.

So there should be at least some girls who should fine me intresting. Or mabey i am ulgy as hell.

I do not have the balls too go up to a unknown woman and talk to her IRL.Thats way i do the online stuff to get too know her and then meet. I was succesful in the past with online stuff but not anymore.

I have ADD not ADHD. I am tierd almost all the time.

sarahsweets
05-24-17, 09:54 AM
BTW. I tought that i have done a major break trough today. Was going too my first date for 5 years. A good looking girl askt me out. But today, first she ask if we can meet two hours later, i say fine. Some time later she says hurt throat hurts. And when i was about to go to the buss i get a new mess that her throat hurts and she can barley speak. So we agreed to cancel and meet a other day. I think she is liar. Me think she used wolfman87 for ego boost and she was just playing with wolfman87.
She may be breaking plans with you because she is sick, or forgot previous plans with someone else. She may have found someone else she'd like to date first or she may actually not be feeling well. At least she agreed to try again another day. I wouldnt assume she was using you for an "ego boost" whatever that is or playing you. Why assume there is any ill will towards you? I mean, technically you are still getting to know each other.



I do ask them about there intrests and i read there profil very carefully. Also i only make contact with girls that i think i have a chance with. I never write to 10/10 girl, i go for 5-7.5/10
However i never go after looks only,
No offense but what you said above proves that on some level you are using her looks to decide how you feel. There is nothing wrong with this other than the fact that you only go for girls that sort of are not as beautiful or desirable as you might want but feel like you could never get.


I have ADD not ADHD. I am tierd almost all the time.
[/quote]
There is no ADD anymore. It all falls under the ADHD umbrella with emphasis on which symptoms someone has more of.

Wolfman87
05-26-17, 01:57 PM
She may be breaking plans with you because she is sick, or forgot previous plans with someone else. She may have found someone else she'd like to date first or she may actually not be feeling well. At least she agreed to try again another day. I wouldnt assume she was using you for an "ego boost" whatever that is or playing you. Why assume there is any ill will towards you? I mean, technically you are still getting to know each other.


Well you are right, how do I know, I don't. But thats just the way I think, it's not healthy I know but can't help it. When I was younger I was bullied, left out, abondonen of so called friends when I was the most sickest and when somebody tried to make friends with me it was only because they needed something from me. When I had my last birthdayparty in my life was when I turned 10, I had invited around 14 people, no one showed up, only two people botherd too call that they will not come and the rest did not. I tought it will get better when I turn in too a adult, but nay, was still the one people like to pick on. I guess it is because of this i always assume the worst of people.

However my behavior can be because of Crohn Disease. How it effects me mentally:

Loss of appetite and unintentional weight loss fatigue.
Loss of interest in activities once found pleasurable.
Persistent anxiety.
Irritability or belligerence toward others.
Feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, uselessness, or worthlessness.

Well she mabey did find a other person, good for her, but still she can't take 10 seconds too, send me a messages and tell me that she do not want to talk no more? Also have not heard from her in two days so yeah pretty sure this over.


No offense but what you said above proves that on some level you are using her looks to decide how you feel. There is nothing wrong with this other than the fact that you only go for girls that sort of are not as beautiful or desirable as you might want but feel like you could never get.


No offense taken. But I need to look at my self too how I look and who I can mabey get. It feels naive too go for girls that are waaaay out of ones leauge or am I worng?

Fuzzy12
05-26-17, 02:04 PM
Well you are right, how do I know, I don't. But thats just the way I think, it's not healthy I know but can't help it. When I was younger I was bullied, left out, abondonen of so called friends when I was the most sickest and when somebody tried to make friends with me it was only because they needed something from me. When I had my last birthdayparty in my life was when I turned 10, I had invited around 14 people, no one showed up, only two people botherd too call that they will not come and the rest did not. I tought it will get better when I turn in too a adult, but nay, was still the one people like to pick on. I guess it is because of this i always assume the worst of people.

However my behavior can be because of Crohn Disease. How it effects me mentally:

Loss of appetite and unintentional weight loss fatigue.
Loss of interest in activities once found pleasurable.
Persistent anxiety.
Irritability or belligerence toward others.
Feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, uselessness, or worthlessness.

Well she mabey did find a other person, good for her, but still she can't take 10 seconds too, send me a messages and tell me that she do not want to talk no more? Also have not heard from her in two days so yeah pretty sure this over.



No offense taken. But I need to look at my self too how I look and who I can mabey get. It feels naive too go for girls that are waaaay out of ones leauge or am I worng?
There is no league. It's a common misconception but there is no league. What one person finds attractive another one doesn't. Do you find Pamela Anderson attractive? If you do, there is millions of others who don't. If you don't there's millions of others who do.

Go for the girl that you really want because no girl wants to be the one that you just settled for because you thought you couldn't do better. That's the worst possible basis for a relationship.

aur462
05-26-17, 06:01 PM
There is no league. It's a common misconception but there is no league. What one person finds attractive another one doesn't. Do you find Pamela Anderson attractive? If you do, there is millions of others who don't. If you don't there's millions of others who do.

I'm glad since she's "irrelevant" (no ill-meaning here/just parlance) as I no longer have to hear how "hot" she is. She just oozed fake. Definitely not my type. Moving along now as I believe the substance I've provided is minimal ;)

InvitroCanibal
05-28-17, 04:30 AM
I'm an INTP as well and you're right, we are undateable.

I found the solution was to skip the dates. I started a conversation with a stranger and I decided to move forward as fast as I could, no matter what...married her 6 years later.

As an INTP, I think we just get mired by indecisiveness, which doesn't translate well to the dating world.

Good luck

sarahsweets
05-30-17, 04:11 AM
I'm an INTP as well and you're right, we are undateable.

I found the solution was to skip the dates. I started a conversation with a stranger and I decided to move forward as fast as I could, no matter what...married her 6 years later.

As an INTP, I think we just get mired by indecisiveness, which doesn't translate well to the dating world.

Good luck

Do you really believe a Meyers Brigg result makes you undateable?

dvdnvwls
05-30-17, 03:06 PM
I don't know about those personality types, but the idea that some people might do better to bypass the whole dating process could be important.

Johnny Slick
05-30-17, 03:36 PM
There is no league. It's a common misconception but there is no league. What one person finds attractive another one doesn't. Do you find Pamela Anderson attractive? If you do, there is millions of others who don't. If you don't there's millions of others who do.

Go for the girl that you really want because no girl wants to be the one that you just settled for because you thought you couldn't do better. That's the worst possible basis for a relationship.Yeah, and to take this a step further, I don't know, maybe you have to be with a physically attractive person to "get" this at some point but it really and truly isn't everything. I don't mean to body-shame here but a lot of the time, and I think this is the case for women especially, there is a price that you pay for looking like a "10". A lot of women get a great deal of pressure applied to them by their family, their friends, and especially themselves to maintain their figure or go through all of the really, really hard work that it takes to hide the unflattering parts that we all have from other people. That's a tough road to follow and I can see where that can do something do you. So I don't know, at the very least maybe it's useful for men like the OP to read up on some of the sacrifices "attractive" women have to make in order to look the way that they do and decide for themselves if this is something they can live with. I don't know, if nothing else, maybe he'll gain a better understanding of what women have to go through before announcing himself as involuntarily celibate or whatever.

At the same time, sarahsweets *really* hit the nail on the head by saying that by going after "5s to 7.5s" the OP is toooooootally still being looks-centric. And to a point, I do get that (the general looks-centrism, not so much the "settling"). We men are visual creatures, whether this is due to biology, cultural pressures, or something in between. I think you need to accept that a. women have different things they often look to in attractiveness, and b. every single woman is different. That "10" you're not going after because you think she's "out of your league" might find intelligence and a quick wit to be sexier than Brad Pitt, whereas that "5" might be looking for qualities in men that you just plain don't have at the moment. It's not an easy call to make and sometimes the only way to find out is by asking.

dvdnvwls
05-30-17, 03:56 PM
Add to that the fact that, even though most of our judgments of physical attractiveness are biologically predetermined, people simply don't all agree on what looks attractive and what doesn't. Each of us has a huge web of associations and experiences that lead us all in slightly different directions, despite the biology.

And while visual cues cause an immediate reaction, they don't guarantee any kind of compatibility - or even a sustained attraction. Appearance is a very unreliable shortcut to finding out about a person.

Fuzzy12
05-30-17, 03:59 PM
Can I also add that I think that the only thing that might be seriously unattractive universally is someone rating you from 1-10. There's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to start explaining it.

InvitroCanibal
05-30-17, 07:18 PM
Do you really believe a Meyers Brigg result makes you undateable?


Indecision makes an Intp or anyone else undateable because it can lead to looking for perfection from yourself or others.

One way I found to overcome Indecision about people, was through writing. It helped me figure out how to express who I was. In expressing myself through ideas, I felt acceptance and ultimately, my indecision came from a lack of self awarensss and acceptance.

I don't know the OP, but if they say they have a problem, then they probably have a problem.


From what I have read and what I know

Introverted could mean more internal than external expression
Intuitive can mean less concise more open
Thinking can mean trusting logic over feelings
Percieving means less reactive

I just don't think you can date anyone if you can't decide whether or not you like them or if it is worth the risk. For a long time, that held me back with people, until I started taking risks. I can relate to what the op is saying and it was just overall indecisiveness that held me back.

We're all different though

If you look at intp, it just says intp types are indecisive until they've had enough time to think about it.

I don't really want to argue the validity of the meyers brigg, because what matters is that the OP believes in the meyers brigg. Telling them to doubt what they believe about themselves is only further adding to the issue in my opinion, because the op needs to trust themselves before they can trust anyone else, and that trust will come to be mutually shared with the people that they meet in their life.

sarahsweets
05-31-17, 04:51 AM
I don't really want to argue the validity of the meyers brigg, because what matters is that the OP believes in the meyers brigg. Telling them to doubt what they believe about themselves is only further adding to the issue in my opinion, because the op needs to trust themselves before they can trust anyone else, and that trust will come to be mutually shared with the people that they meet in their life.

I wasnt trying to argue about the validity of Meyers Brigg, I just hadnt heard what you mentioned in reference to dating. I would love to find a Meyers Brigg that was accurate or reliable for me. The one's Ive taken give me different results each time, or are confusing by how different they seem to be.

InvitroCanibal
06-02-17, 05:51 PM
I wasnt trying to argue about the validity of Meyers Brigg, I just hadnt heard what you mentioned in reference to dating. I would love to find a Meyers Brigg that was accurate or reliable for me. The one's Ive taken give me different results each time, or are confusing by how different they seem to be.

It's just about the proccess that you use to understand the world. Some people identify with it more than others. It says Intps are indecisive but I haven't really decided whether or not I identify with that.

dvdnvwls
06-02-17, 06:18 PM
It says Intps are indecisive but I haven't really decided whether or not I identify with that.
Ha! :lol:

I like that.

aeon
06-02-17, 06:46 PM
It says Intps are indecisive but I haven't really decided whether or not I identify with that.

I see what you did there. :lol:


Cheers,
Ian