View Full Version : Problem with emotions when ADHD med wears off


Jill22089
11-11-16, 08:01 PM
ok so when im on my meds i can control my emotions i dont get easily agitated i dont get frustrated i dont blow up the situation. and its not from crash becuz i dont crash. is having emotional problems associated with adhd or does it just help people with emotional problems? im confusssssssed i wanna know why i can deal with people and situations so much better on my meds!

C15H25N3O
11-11-16, 08:48 PM
emotional problems are linked with using drugs – no matter if self-medication or
medical-medication – your emotions dont care about FDAs level of schedule.

Take care!

john2100
11-11-16, 10:11 PM
ok so when im on my meds i can control my emotions i dont get easily agitated i dont get frustrated i dont blow up the situation. and its not from crash becuz i dont crash. is having emotional problems associated with adhd or does it just help people with emotional problems? im confusssssssed i wanna know why i can deal with people and situations so much better on my meds!

Increased dopamine levels , make you able to deal better with situations.
If you get angry without meds, your body produces chemicals that make you angry, when you win an argument, you are rewarded with dopamine.

When you are on meds already, it almost looks pointless to you to fight, you are already flooded with dopamine. Even if your body produces chemicals that make you angry , dopamine seems to be canceling their effect and you just don;t care.That can be dangerous too, because of inaction to negative things. Dopamine is making bad situation seem like no big deal.

I see this on a friend who is on antidepressants. Nothing seems to **** him of anymore. That is very similar what is going with you now.

Normal people react like this:
Bad situation = anger (adrenalin)

Medicated people (especially at honeymoon stage)
Bad situation = no response ( dopamin is flooding your brain ) =happiness

You can't fight if you happy,

Jill22089
11-12-16, 10:56 AM
it has nothing to do with drug use i have very low tolerance to stress therapist told me its from inexperience i have dependent personanlity disorder too and someone always 'saved me' it ruined my ability to deal with stress and from traumatic childhood experiences i have emotional problems, been told that since 13

Jill22089
11-12-16, 10:57 AM
i dont think u guys understand i dont react rationally when the meds wear off i told someone who only owes me $20 that that i would never f***ing talk to him again and he would be dead to me if he didnt pay me back today

Jill22089
11-12-16, 10:58 AM
what im saying is i had these emotional problems before the med when im on it they go away when it wears off they come back

Unmanagable
11-12-16, 11:27 AM
What other methods are you using to get to the root(s) of the issue(s)? I learned that not identifying or addressing the root causes was my first and worst mistake.

Medication helps to a certain extent, in some cases, and can be damn near miraculous for others, but it will also take skill building techniques, possibly some therapy, and other various means of trying to work it out.

I was never taught how to healthily handle, grieve, or process the abuse I experienced at a young age, either, and kept experiencing it well into my mid-twenties, so I kept tripping over myself attempting to quickly "fix" myself.

One of the things I remember quite vividly when I visited here to learn more about adhd and other issues I deal with is the phrase, "Pills don't teach skills."

I'm incredibly grateful to have had someone share that phrase early on in my attempts to find answers, especially since trying and learning that the pills caused me to experience more side effects than I can comfortably live with.

Wishing you the best in getting it sorted out.

john2100
11-12-16, 11:40 AM
i dont think u guys understand i dont react rationally when the meds wear off i told someone who only owes me $20 that that i would never f***ing talk to him again and he would be dead to me if he didnt pay me back today

We understand very well, please re-read my response.

The reason why are react irrationally when the meds wear off , is because dopamine is lowered in your brain. You are missing it so much, that it creates anger. As soon as you take extra amphetamine ,your anger is gone.It's that simple. It feels good to have that extra dopamine, when it is gone it horrible.
It's one sign , you are taking too much .

john2100
11-12-16, 11:51 AM
what im saying is i had these emotional problems before the med when im on it they go away when it wears off they come back

That still doesn't change anything about why you respond differently on meds.

Before meds your brain regulation was messed up.Maybe because of environment,attitude or physiological reasons.
That's way you react with anger. For whatever reason you Adrenalin goes up and you react with anger. Why are you reacting with anger,that is a entire new tread.

When on meds, anger is more difficult to express because your brain is flooded with happy chemical dopamine.

Before meds, there was lower production of dopamine and good feeling chemical in your brain.
As soon as there was something that ****** you off ,your brain increases production of adrenalin .

Jill22089
11-12-16, 12:41 PM
no u still dont get it ur sayin its cuz of dopamine drop im saying i act the same as i did on all the years untreated with adhd when it wears off. its a matter of my real self coming back, its nothing new i googled it said adhd and emotional issues go hand in hand we get frustrated easily and so on im only on 60 mg vyvanse duration only 7 hours they were gonna add an ir so its not a case of over medicated

C15H25N3O
11-12-16, 12:52 PM
... but you might wont act so while the pill is effective?

It is your real self amplified by a lack of dopamine that can also be manipulated by a too low or too high dosage of the med.

john2100
11-12-16, 01:42 PM
no u still dont get it ur sayin its cuz of dopamine drop im saying i act the same as i did on all the years untreated with adhd when it wears off. its a matter of my real self coming back, its nothing new i googled it said adhd and emotional issues go hand in hand we get frustrated easily and so on im only on 60 mg vyvanse duration only 7 hours they were gonna add an ir so its not a case of over medicated

1.Before medication
a: your anger was not controlled.Correct?
-the reason a men feels angry is mainly Adrenalin rush.
-your dopamine levels and other happy chemicals were lowered or up-down,before your meds. Any negative reaction then ,could easily trigger anger. Anger however can be controlled without meds. There are many posts about it.

let say your dopamine level and other good feel chemicals was 5/10 on average.


2.On medication
a:While the meds they are working, you have increased dopamine levels. That's why you are not getting angry. You attitude is changed , you see the world with optimistic view. No reason to get angry.No Adrenalin rush

let say your dopamine level and other good feel chemicals was 8/10 on average.While you are at peak level of the day.

b:When you meds wears off, you get angry because of:
1. You body reacts aggressively to the drop of dopamine. It causes anger.

let say your dopamine level and other good feel chemicals is at the time of crash 5/10 on average. That is a drop that is not comfortable. That's why you react negatively.

2. Once the dopamine level is lowered , you react exactly the same way, like you do when you are not on medication,but probably even worse.

The reason why you probably react even worse in your crash period is a huge sudden decrease of dopamine. That is really uncomfortable for your brain.
So it gives you "crash" .

-What is your response? Get more dopamine.
-How? Increase the dose
-What happens then,no more crash.
-Why? Dopamine lasts longer from 60mg dose then 40mg dose . Half time of amphetamins is increased.

So you see the levels of dopamine before any meds maybe 5/10
At the crash period 5/10

But the reaction at the crash period is more intense because the sudden drop intensifies the feeling much more. And then adrenaline comes in too.

Before meds ,there is no sudden drop of dopamine only adrenaline surge , dopamine is almost constant, so there is no crash. The crash is caused by sudden drop of dopamine. The crash in your definition is anger.Somebody else defines crash by other means.

Jill22089
11-12-16, 05:32 PM
thank you that was very helpful. i guess i can learn to deal with it if they add IR its gonna last til 9 pm so i wont be dealing with any people by then lol

john2100
11-12-16, 06:43 PM
thank you that was very helpful. i guess i can learn to deal with it if they add IR its gonna last til 9 pm so i wont be dealing with any people by then lol

I think I know the reason why you didn't understand my point at first.

You were assuming that dopamine is not present in your brain without meds.

I think that it is very important for people with ADD and depression to understand how most CNS medication work. Many people think that the cure is inside the pill . Many think, that there is some chemical inside ,that our body is missing. That is not the case with most CNS.

The way most CNS meds work is , they have chemicals (ingredients )inside that effect or, and interact with our natural production of brain chemicals.

For example adderall , effects the production of dopamine,norepinephrine and other chemicals. Both of those those chemicals are already being produced by our brain.Even people with depression have those chemicals but their production is messed up.

Doctors discovered that if you give amphetamines to people that have symptoms what we call today ADD, ADHD those symptoms were decreased.
They knew amphetamines effected positively production of dopamine and other fell happy chemicals. So they decided to start to prescribe it to people with these symtoms. Now we have a theory that by increasing the amount of dopamine we can control the ADD symptoms.

As many ,including me already know, it is much more complicated to find the right balance and dosage that theory suggest,but it' a start.At least ADD is more and more being accepted as a legitimated disorder.

john2100
11-12-16, 07:16 PM
thank you that was very helpful. i guess i can learn to deal with it if they add IR its gonna last til 9 pm so i wont be dealing with any people by then lol


I'm no doctor, but It may not be the best idea .If you take it let say at 8am and then you 'll get a kicker at 4pm so it will last until 9PM you will more likely have difficulty sleeping . I'm almost convinced that already you wake long before you used to and before your alarm clock goes off . Maybe I'm wrong .

I'm almost sure, that if you add let say 10mg adderall IR at 4PM you will wake up the very next day 1 hour early . That drop of medication level in your body will start to happen as you sleep . It will probably wake you up. Sooner or later you will be waking up 1-2 h. early just to get a morning dose. I'm not suggesting that it shows an addiction ,but that's how our brain works. Remember the time when you couldn't sleep because something exiting was gonna happen the next day? That's nothing but chemicals in your brain being too active at the time they are not supposed to be.

I think that fighting crash by increasing a dose is a bad idea.
Purpose of meds is to replicate non-add brain . Nothing more.
You can get 13h coverage , but you must admit that at this point you are not replicating normal non-ADD brain ,but you are overperfoming it.
Which is great while it lasts. It will not lasts. You brain has an amazing ability to adapt and it will want more. You are already up from 40mg to 60mg then a kicker at 10mg and you are just starting.

If it was me I would lower the dose to a dosage that doesn't give me crash.
Or a very little crash that non add people feel.
But lowering the dose will be difficult now for you .
It almost looks like you have made up your mind to get to that 9pm coverage.
If you lower it back to 40, your crash be really bad now, but it will disappear eventually (a week at most) . Then you could increase the dose a little bit. Crash is a natural protective response of your body ,telling you something is not right. Something needs to be changed .

What caused the crash? Lowered level of feel good chemicals.
Solution? Eliminate or lower an intake of what caused the spike:meds.

Your solution will lead even to harder crash. It will happen in your sleep,if you get any at all. Even if you sleep thru it, it will still have its negative effects.

Jill22089
11-13-16, 02:38 AM
thank u idk i thought the Dr knows more then me i argued with them once that im not bipolar and they acted like i was a joke cuz im not a dr. why would my dr say add an IR if duration is still a problem is she a bad doctor? im confused can i trust no one?

C15H25N3O
11-13-16, 04:53 AM
When I was prescribed to Ritalin IR i really hated the crash/rebound so much that I dosage myself with my docs support to 20/10/10/5 mg.

The trick to adjust and use Ritalin IR correct is to take the second and following dosages at 50% of the good-morning pill.

The last 5mg I took to avoid the crash/rebound while being awake and it happened while sleeping.

Ritalin supported my REM sleeping like a sleeping pill but amphetamines increases noradrenaline too much for REM.

john2100
11-13-16, 10:00 AM
thank u idk i thought the Dr knows more then me i argued with them once that im not bipolar and they acted like i was a joke cuz im not a dr. why would my dr say add an IR if duration is still a problem is she a bad doctor? im confused can i trust no one?

A bad doctor? That is sort of subjective . It would depend on how the conversation went with you and her, and I mean almost word for word. Giving an IR to prolong the coverage is a common practice.
What made you sing -up for for this forum? Why do you ask questions here?If you had really 100% trust in here you wouldn't be here.She does was she does based on the experiences and common practice.

She also know that for any problem that will follow, there is a solution that will be solved with meds.


Just an improvisation:
You: I want to increase a coverage to 12H because of the crash.
Her: NO problem ,we'll add a IR
You: What if I have a problem sleeping?
Her: We'll worry about it when it happens, relax dear.
You: Could you tell me, bc. it makes me anxious not knowing the plan,
Her: We'll reduce the dosage, We'll increase the dosage , we'll try a different stimulant or we may add a very very mild sleeping pill.

Which approach do you think she will take?

This is not my subjective opinion but researcher's : With stimulant's you should start at the lowest possible dosage. Then you will start to increase to dosage gradually until you can see the expected therapeutic result but without any side-effects.

Now look at your case: You went from 40mg to 60 mg ,your response was
"My crash is bad i get depressed and snappy." Look at your yvanse drug info .

What is a common side effect?
-quick to react or overreact emotionally
-rapidly changing moods

What is your doctors response ? Let's increase the dosage.
Both approaches will remove the crash.
Increase and decrease will remove the crash which is rather paradoxical but which approach makes more sense?

Researches or doctors's. ?

What do you feel is a correct approach?
Slow gradual increase or sudden increase.

Also your statement :
-I 'm not getting a full coverage from meds, is a new tread upon itself .

-What do you mean exactly?

-What expectations do you really have?

-What kind of job are you doing ?

-What kind of improvement do you see after 3-4h on vyvanse in % compering to the state when you were off meds.

-What kind of improvement do you see after 3-4h on vyvabse in % compering to your non add friend .

-Do you see any improvement at all after 8h on yvanse of 0% improvement.

-How about your non-add friend. Are they getting 13h coverage from their brain?IF not why should you get it?
If your non-add friend is getting 8h of effective focus with a healthy brain , isn't it logical to assume that 13h coverige is not healthy, especially if we are achieving this with amphetamines.

-Do you get enough sleep?

-Are you depressed

-How is your diet? junk food? soda's? Do you eat breafast, VEgetabes fruit, sweets,

-Do you have good positive friends ? family?

-Do you take any suplement? Fish oil ,MG, miltuvitamns may not help with ADD but they help overall brain function.

-Do you use any other tricks that help you deal with focus and other add problems.

-Are you organized?

etc,,,,,meds help , but you will never be satisfied if you ignore any of the above. No matter how big dose you take.

also see this: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181070
-look up what executive function is to understand how important that tread is.

.

Joker_Girl
11-13-16, 07:54 PM
I sometimes am in a nasty mood when my meds are wearing off. I don't even realize it's happening except I notice that my tolerance for things is sometimes not as good as normal. Especially dumb things, if someone dumb or rude is annoying me, I get snippy, which I don't when I'm medicated, nor when my meds are completely worn off.

Little Missy
11-13-16, 07:57 PM
I sometimes am in a nasty mood when my meds are wearing off. I don't even realize it's happening except I notice that my tolerance for things is sometimes not as good as normal. Especially dumb things, if someone dumb or rude is annoying me, I get snippy, which I don't when I'm medicated, nor when my meds are completely worn off.

I call it "I'm done."

And when I'm done, I'm done.

And tomorrow is another day.