View Full Version : Requesting extra test time, etc.


ronkylack
11-29-16, 11:44 PM
Im thinking about showing my university my diagnosis (ADHD) and requesting disability help. Im surrounded by people who call ADHD a fabrication who are also proud of me, so I half believed that myself, until recently reaching out to peeps like you all. But now, I believe I should get the help I may need... The big decision-maker for me was my current precalc class..

ITT: Did your school give you a hassle for requesting something like this? Are you glad that you did it?

Little Missy
11-30-16, 07:43 AM
Do it! I did and it was the best thing for me.

john2100
11-30-16, 07:49 AM
What do you study?

john2100
11-30-16, 08:39 AM
Also if they give you extra time because of your disability , don't you think people whose brain is wired differently and because of this they are extraordinarily smart should be getting less time and be graded on more difficult scale?

Or even this,let say my parents are rich and I don't have to work. My apartment is quite and I have everything I can think of to help me to achieve anything I need.

On the other hand my classmate has to work for 4h a day to pay for school, lives with other people, father is a screaming alcoholic, and he has to be ready for school too.
That is an "environment" disability but not students fault either. The results of bad environment are effectively the same as results of ADD. It is not any of your fault.

Where do we draw the line?

GoalieMel33
11-30-16, 10:37 AM
I didn't come across too much trouble getting accommodations, the hardest part for me was the whole diagnosis process. Even though I wasn't officially diagnosed at the time, the special ed counselor gave me extra time (1/3), educator helping me with studying skills as well as being able to do my exams in a quiet room (outside class) if requested. I'm grateful for the support I had and my teachers were very understanding too.

John2100, I don't believe an individual with ADHD who gets accommodations has a unfair advantage. It just means that instead on starting behind peers (due to various deficits), that person gets the ''normal'' level, as a base.

john2100
11-30-16, 11:23 AM
I don't believe an individual with ADHD who gets accommodations has a unfair advantage. It just means that instead on starting behind peers (due to various deficits), that person gets the ''normal'' level, as a base.

The only way you get to normal level is if you are constantly given more time as the lectures become more complected . Your ADD will not go away. It is here to stay with you forever.


University is a competitive place. You compete when you done with other students who are applying for the same jobs as well. Right?

So you as an employer have two students with the same grades. One was given extra time because of ADHD the other one was not given an extra time.


You hire both ,after 2 month you'll see that one employer needs 30% more time to complete the same task as the other.

Then you'll ask how is that possible ? And ADD person will say, well I was given an extra time bc. of my disability so I 'll be able to perform on the same same as Tom here, but I need that extra time.

Should both of them have a same salary?Shouldn't employer know this before they hire them?

I have no problem with students getting extra time ,even 20hours more for 1hour test,but that has to be reflected on the degree and disclosed to your future employer by law.
Then it is up to the employer to compensate them fairly or not hire them at all.

Currently ADD is not a disability by law, so you don't have to be hired because of this. It would not be a discrimination.

I could run a marathon too, Would I require to be hired for an Olympic team bc. I did it?
I took me 12h but i did it. Would that be fair to others who could do it in 2.5h?

If ADHD is recognized as a disability , then any mental disorder or under performance should be a disability.

Well I'm depressed,I can't study ,,should I get more time?
What makes you so special with ADD?
How about OCD,,,well I cant concentrate with that noisy fan in a room,
How about low IQ person requesting more time to pass timed IQ test and scoring 160 as well just to be hired for a research position only to under perform and be fired in 10min.

You see the problem and chain reaction of such a innocent accommodation?


So, yes sure, give them time, but you have to disclose it to your employer and also you can't have the same type of degree then others ,because that degree takes into considerations a timed exams not flexible time exams.

I have ADD and depression but I would be really ashamed if someone even suggested to give me more time to complete my work bc. of it.
I'd quit and realize that I'm not fit for that job or school before I'd ask them to accommodate me because i'm depressed with ADD.

john2100
11-30-16, 11:32 AM
I didn't come across too much trouble getting accommodations, the hardest part for me was the whole diagnosis process. Even though I wasn't officially diagnosed at the time, the special ed counselor gave me extra time (1/3), educator helping me with studying skills as well as being able to do my exams in a quiet room (outside class) if requested. I'm grateful for the support I had and my teachers were very understanding too.

John2100, I don't believe an individual with ADHD who gets accommodations has a unfair advantage. It just means that instead on starting behind peers (due to various deficits), that person gets the ''normal'' level, as a base.

Are you talking about university level?

What did you study?

Di you end up working in a private sector or government sector.?

For profit or non-profit?



Would you hire a lawyer to represent you in a serious crime who was given double time to pass bar exam and all the test because of ADHD with that knowledge? You would lose a case and then find out he has ADD,that was preventing him to get properly ready for your case.
Well Judge,,, prosecution is just moving too fast,,,can i request more time bc. I have ADD?

CASE CLOSED

GoalieMel33
11-30-16, 11:49 AM
Job salaries aren't usually based on an employee's performance (at least to my knowledge), but more on the title or experience. Either you can do your tasks or you can't, and that's up to the company to decide whether they want to keep that person or not, or accommodate them.

And btw, a lot of disabilities/conditions are recognized for accommodations, ADHD isn't exclusive. The fact is, many psychological conditions impairs cognitive abilities.

The low IQ example is very unlikely imo. Having intellectual difficulties affects reasoning, comprehension, etc. Even if someone was given more time, I don't think that would change their score on an IQ test because the struggle isn't time related.

You can't treat every person the same. Even when you have the same condition, your symptoms might differ. Some people function better than others. We can't really assume based on a diagnosis that someone is going to underperform but some do need support. I think each case should be treated indvidually, whether there is condition or not.

GoalieMel33
11-30-16, 12:04 PM
Are you talking about university level?

What did you study?

Di you end up working in a private sector or government sector.?

For profit or non-profit?



Would you hire a lawyer to represent you in a serious crime who was given double time to pass bar exam and all the test because of ADHD with that knowledge? You would lose a case and then find out he has ADD,that was preventing him to get properly ready for your case.
Well Judge,,, prosecution is just moving too fast,,,can i request more time bc. I have ADD?

CASE CLOSED

I graduated from college, where I live we do have universities, although you have to go through college before. I was studying ''youth and adult correctionnal intervention'' (not sure how it would be called since it's originally in french) but I changed career and work in private security now. I never brought up ADHD to my employers or felt the need/interest to.

I wouldn't care much about his conditions, as long as I know that he will be able to do what he's supposed to, like any lawyer would and help me, then I see no problem. If I decided to hire him to defend me, that means I put my trust in him. But obviously, I would have made sure he is the most suited person for the job.

If they were hired in the first place, it's because employers felt they had what it takes to perform well, so they wouldn't normally have trouble once on the job. (but i do know you sometimes realize tasks are harder when you get in the field) Asking more time wouldn't work anyway, they may as well try to postpones dates due to collecting evidences/experts evaluations/etc...

john2100
11-30-16, 12:54 PM
Job salaries aren't usually based on an employee's performance (at least to my knowledge), but more on the title or experience.

Sure , when you are being hired you negotiate your salary at that time. But ongoing salary is based on employees' performance. Of course a philosopher's salery is not being affected much , as the performance can't be measures,but we are discussing something else.

Either you can do your tasks or you can't, and that's up to the company to decide whether they want to keep that person or not, or accommodate them.

Exactly, that's what I'm saying . But in is not that simple. ADD is not recognized as a disability .
You dont have to disclose it .
Hiring someone is very very easy,,firing them ,that is another issue.
Labor laws etc.


So you see what you are saying makes sense only if you specify timing of those information . If you conceal your ADD and extra time given then , it makes it more difficult for an employer to fire you later.


Also when universities start to accommodate people based on any mental disorder on a larger scale, employers will have to change their hiring practices as well , as it will be used and abused by others too. Instead of all B's I'll have all A's. You may say,well good for you . But that's is not how life works. There is a 1h limit for a reason . They know that in 1h only the best will have 98-100% score ,they know that based on statistics that it is possible.

Now lower it too 2h. You 'll artificially creating more TOP students . Sooner or later you will have 90% of the students at the TOP.


This will add a cost of operating business . So accommodating will cause prices to go up . And we do accommodating already to disabled people, which is a right thing to do ,but are we gonna hire a disabled fireman and give him extra time to pass the exam?
No ,they have to pass the test even with disability . There are solders with artificial limbs who still serve,god bless them , but they passed the same timed exams.

THAT LAWYER COMMENT: I'm changing the argument. You are broke. You are appointed a lawyer by the state , who has ADD , you have no idea about it. However he knows his performance is not the best.He know he needs more time . He was always give extra time in law school in mock cases. You personally passed the law that enabled him to get 2x time on bar exams too . Now that lawyer used your law to get a law degree. Your life is in his hands . Are you gonna have any regrets that you are not represented by a lawyer who passed a bar under tight timeline and all his law cases in law school were done under standard timeline?

john2100
11-30-16, 01:14 PM
The low IQ example is very unlikely imo. Having intellectual difficulties affects reasoning, comprehension, etc. Even if someone was given more time, I don't think that would change their score on an IQ test because the struggle isn't time related.


Why don't you test it yourself? There are timed IQ tests that measure the speed of processing info too. Very simple example would be mental math 185x650 , and so on.
And I know mental math doesn't make you a genius,, but I could use 100 other examples that could be used in IQ tests and those will be argued in regards to efficiency and it would turn into IQ test efficiency and we don;t wanna go there.

Tetrahedra
12-01-16, 12:56 AM
This thread is going weirdly off topic. It's interesting, but maybe we should address the concerns of the person who started it. I'd hate for him to feel bad about getting accommodations.

Ronkylack, I didn't have any trouble with accommodations. Your school's disability program is professional enough and well-versed enough in disabilities to recognize ADHD as a real challenge that people face. I thusfar haven't had a problem getting teachers to sign off on extra test time, either. Firstly because they're required to, and secondly because I'm not required to tell them WHY I need extra time. For all they know, I could be getting extra time for a seemingly more "real" diagnosis of dyslexia or something.

john2100
12-01-16, 05:16 AM
I thusfar haven't had a problem getting teachers to sign off on extra test time, either. I'm curious ,at the college level?

In the USA?

Private or public University?maybe that matters too.



Firstly because they're required to, Based on state or federal law or based on specific school policy?


and secondly because I'm not required to tell them WHY I need extra time You are saying any student can require an extra time and get it without disclosing a reason to them ?


For all they know, I could be getting extra time for a seemingly more "real" diagnosis of dyslexia or something.Is there a limit , how many students in a class can request extra time? What if the whole class says,,,screw this,,,,,we all have anxiety from this freaking calculus,,,,anxiety ,ADD ,,both serious, lets all request it , So what happens next? Everybody got extra time.


How does extra time work in practice? Let say you are in a room with 50 other students, does everyone wait for you to finish if you get 30min extra? Probably not, you must be getting your separate room with other extra time students?

[MODERATOR NOTE: So as not to derail this thread, additional questions about the propriety and societal and occupational implications of academic accommodations have been moved to a new thread here (http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181759). Please focus on the OP's questions: "Did your school give you a hassle for requesting something like this? Are you glad that you did it?"]

namazu
12-01-16, 06:04 AM
In the U.S., federal law requires most colleges and universities (including most private universities) to provide reasonable accommodations to students with documented disabilities.

Typically, a student provides documentation of the disability from a qualified medical professional to a designated office or individual at the school. That office/person then works with the student to determine what accommodations are appropriate, given the nature of the disability/disabilities and the requirements of the academic program. Individual course instructors need not be informed of the specifics of the disability, only that there is one and how to accommodate it. (For reference: students who use extra time as an accommodation often do take exams in a separate room with fewer distractions.)

I made use of multiple accommodations and support services available to me back in the day (at a large public university with a history of support for students with disabilities), which made an enormous difference for me.

Knowing that I would have additional time on exams actually motivated me to work harder, for two reasons:
1) the excuses of "ran out of time" or "didn't have a chance to check my work" were no longer as applicable, and
2) as an identified individual with a disability, using accommodations that some people view with great suspicion, I felt compelled to try to be a good example, showing that students with disabilities can be hard-working and capable people for whom accommodations provide access -- and not just lazy slackers or overprivileged kids trying to grab an unfair advantage.

I was frequently self-conscious about using accommodations, both because of my own doubts and because I knew how some people perceived them. Only 1 or 2 profs/TAs (out of many, many) ever hassled me in any way, but even that was slight. Most of my professors didn't bat an eye; a couple even told me that they (or their kids, or a colleague) had similar disabilities, and most were very supportive. I think it helped that I was eager and excited about the subjects I was studying, proactive about mentioning my disability and how it might affect me in different courses, and committed to coming to class.

Go for it, ronkylack, get the best out of yourself, and do great things! :yes:

Tetrahedra
12-01-16, 09:07 PM
Namazu answered the question for me, saving me a bit of writing and putting it more eloquently than I would have. I don't tell my professors what disability I have - I tell the disability center what it is. Then they give me a form for my professor to fill out, and that form doesn't state what my disability is, just that I have one.

In theory, I suppose people who don't need extra time can finagle around limitations so that they have extra time, too. But when I request extra time from the disability center, I have to provide proof that I actually need it. I can't just tell them that I have ADHD and they need to give me extra time.

Little Missy
12-01-16, 10:09 PM
It is/was? a Federal program called SAS that all colleges have to or had to(?) comply with and with the letter from your doc for whatever your disability is all you need. All professors will comply, no questions asked.

I met the other students in SAS and I was older than their mothers...haha, but we all did study groups which I thought would drive me nuts, but those kids were SO together, I credit them for my A's.

I had tutors for calc and whizzed my math when I never even passed Algebra in high school. I ended up tutoring dyslexic athletes which was amazing.

I just can not tell you how SAS helped me. I worked HARD, real hard and it worked. I was in Honors and the top of my class.

I did go to a teeny private school and fully scholarshipped my own way. SO much work.

Get every single accommodation given to you and just be there. BE there.

Little Missy
12-01-16, 10:27 PM
I did take all of my tests separate in a room by myself with as much time as I needed. I used that time to show that "the best" answer on a multiple choice does not make it the right answer by showing how each answer worked for whatever reason whether it was presented or not. Yes, it was ALOT of writing, but because of my in depth structure I gained extra points.

With any math, I used that time to show how many different ways I could show my work and prove the answer differently than how it was supposed to be proven along with the supposed proven correctly answer, if that makes any sense.

I never missed a day of school, or a class for any reason, was never late, always early and helpful if asked to be. It wore me out but it all paid off in the end. I had no social life other than running around back and forth and maybe I went to a tiny college, but that college had an Equestrian and Veterinarian Program, Aeronautics and Flying and Physician Assistant along with a cadaver lab. It was beautiful and OLD and built by the students in the 1800's.

I feel so fortunate that I was medicated and was able to do what I really was able to do. Finally!

Every summer I packed on more and more classes during those months and ended up with a double major and minor because of how many credits I had. I never could have done it with SAS Services for Academic Success.

terminator0723
12-25-16, 04:14 AM
I signed up for it at my university, and I'm very glad I did! It's helped me tremendously, and has definitely made a difference. Every now and then, I'll hear a professor grumble as he fills out my paperwork, but I don't really care. They don't really have a choice, and can't hold it against you. For the most part, most of my professors are extremely supportive and encouraging.

As a side note, I'd say don't let anyone discourage you from doing so because they believe it should affect future employment, or any other reason. As someone that has been responsible for hiring people in the past, I could careless how long your exams took, or where you too them. Get the help you need, and don't worry about what anyone else thinks. They aren't paying for your degree, nor are they paying your bills in the future. Besides, you're already paying for the services.. Why not use them? :p

sarahsweets
12-27-16, 07:13 AM
I cant stand how people who are legally and legitimately allowed to have accommodations are afraid and feel bad to ask for them because of ignorant personnel.