View Full Version : Fidgety, but attentive; but not sure about requesting medication anymore


bluefoxicy
12-05-16, 01:12 PM
I'm fidgety now. A little chattery, a little hyperactive, nothing extreme. I stopped taking the amphetamine because my doctor gave me Suvorexant and my attention issues vanished completely with enough sleep, so I currently have no condition for which amphetamine has been prescribed.

It's annoying. Seriously. I bite my nails a lot more (which is always a problem, but now extremely-so). I also want to be able to effectively self-motivate, and the only approximation I'm getting of that is getting a few physically-demanding things done here and there while ignoring anything mentally-demanding. I've gotten some house work and maintenance finished now, but haven't managed to push myself to sit still and study instead of just watching Twitch all day.

There's a problem.

Modafinil did great things for me. It also caused extreme depression as a side-effect, and I think that was because I was so sleep-deprived. You can't use Modafinil to stay up forever; using Modafinil when you're a chronic insomniac apparently has consequences even if you're not trying to abuse it in that way, since you are, just not by choice.

I liked Modafinil.

I want to go back on Modafinil and see if it works this time--at a lower dose, and maybe even have the compounder grind out some 50mg pills.

That's the problem.

I liked Modafinil. It gave significant, important improvements to my ability to self-motivate. It made my attention system optimal, in that I would notice everything and appropriately attend to anything important, while ignoring things that weren't important. I made fewer dangerous mistakes driving, I got more studying done. It even made everything have notably better visual depth--I'm (partially?) stereo blind, and everything seems flat-ish usually.

I can probably convince my psychiatrist to give me another prescription; I can at least influence the decision, even if I don't have a 100% chance of determining the outcome.

So I'm sitting on a situation where I'm trying to identify what's really happening. I've been complaining about not being able to self-motivate for a couple months now. I've been looking back at the Modafinil for a while (drug-seeking behavior; drug-liking). Now I'm finding new reasons I need it.

That's not necessarily wrong. It could just be an optimized decision--which, let's face it, is how I operate. Experience has shown I can't always grade my own judgment: I think my judgment has some validity because of course I do.

Probably nobody can tell me what to do; and it's a complex ethical quandary anyway--even when you get to the edges, the next step is an argument about Cognitive Enhancement, which I've already covered a lot. I can at least vent, though.

Besides, I have no idea if this is supposed to happen. How the heck do attention issues go away with sleep, but then you feel restless and unable to sit still? Wouldn't you have attention issues first, then fidgeting problems?

I'm possibly looking at a psychological blind spot. My attention system might be breaking in a way I can't perceive, even looking directly at it; or it might take more than two weeks off amphetamine for me to start having trouble again. Can't tell. I do know I simply do not like amphetamine; it does not-great things for me, like triggering depression, although it didn't disrupt my sleep and it does give better control over diet (something I've been able to retain in major part since). Everyone else seems to respond better.

Maybe these incoherent scrawlings will help future generations somehow.

bluefoxicy
12-09-16, 03:35 PM
Welp I took an amphetamine today. It made the fidgeting and impatience and impulsiveness go away; and I feel mildly-depressed and don't feel like really doing anything.

Okay, yeah, screw this. Going to round-2 Modafinil in January, if I can get my psychiatrist to sign off on it.

Mood states affect my judgment. I'm still uncertain how to deal with that; obviously my judgment will appear clear to me at any point in time because of course it does. This is why I delay and overthink. In this mood, I'm less-attracted to modafinil for its nice side-effects and more for the fact that there is a problem and the side-effects of AMP are undesirable, so at least I'm firmly back into dry clinical territory (which, I suppose, is a disease; I should probably be more interested in my emotional impulses, but I'm mostly interested in factoring them entirely out of my decisions, and am most-comfortable when my decisions are based on raw logic).

ginniebean
12-09-16, 03:46 PM
Adhd is real, it's effects may not be that noticeable moment by moment but the adversity adds up. It can and does ruin lives. Get to know more about adhd. Your doubt and self questioning comes from ignorance of your own disorder.

I don't know how you'll sort out your medication issues but untreated adhd is not trivial.

bluefoxicy
12-14-16, 11:57 AM
Adhd is real, it's effects may not be that noticeable moment by moment but the adversity adds up. It can and does ruin lives. Get to know more about adhd. Your doubt and self questioning comes from ignorance of your own disorder.

If we weren't ignorant, we wouldn't have to solve problems.

I'm always chewing through more information. The drugs are brutal, and I'm generating a lot of information along the way. I got a better grasp of my insomina that way, and its consequences.

Correcting the sleep deprivation has changed the problem from inattentiveness to ... I don't know; I'm either fidgety, impatient, or aggressive. The more I recover from sleep deprivation, the harder it is to interact with other people. I'm also terrible with cortisoids (prednizone is bad), and that includes cortisol: anger didn't appear as an emotion at all until two years ago, and I had routed around it in a month because the results are... bad. Extremely bad. I've had to relearn my mental behaviors to prevent that kind of stress response.

I've long eliminated any mental behaviors that trigger depression, and have been ... unfamiliar with anxiety. Amphetamine causes these as a side-effect, and I can't magically make it go away. That's raising questions: is it a side-effect, or am I clinically depressed? That I learned how to turn the depression off years ago doesn't mean I'm not depressed; it just means I independently invented cognitive behavioral therapy, and my defense mechanisms are too advanced for it to matter.

I frequently don't even know what my goals and motives are. In some sense, it's cognitive enhancement: ADHD may be a real thing, but I just want to have the capacity to sit down and put myself to work doing things I've set out to do. I'm schizoid (and haven't told my psychiatrist), and friends, family, and relationships aren't interesting; 100% of my goals are centered on myself, alone, finding things to do and getting them done. In some sense, I'm trying to escape the world by keeping myself busy--but then, isn't everyone trying to escape the world by surrounding themselves with things like family, friends, and hobbies? The concept of working toward a goal for yourself is to develop a fantasy and make it real. A lot of things are actually the same thing, though.

I'll sort this out by a lot of trial and error. The psychiatrist can probably give me a few good suggestions along the way, and keep me from doing anything to injure myself.

...heh. It's 3.5 hours in on the amphetamine (I needed one today, took one at 7am), and the depression is brutal. Could be worse. It actually burns--I don't know if that's a thing. Feels bad, feels good, feels miserable. Well. I've got 15 minutes in January to discuss it and formulate a new strategy, and then a month or two to catalog the results. I feel so heavy; there must be an interaction between the synesthesia, the fantasy worlds, and the drugs.

Kunga Dorji
12-15-16, 09:35 AM
I think that the issue here might be a misunderstanding of the symptoms of ADHD and the symptoms for which amphetamines and allied medications are prescribed.


I'm fidgety now. A little chattery, a little hyperactive, nothing extreme. I stopped taking the amphetamine because my doctor gave me Suvorexant and my attention issues vanished completely with enough sleep, so I currently have no condition for which amphetamine has been prescribed.

It's annoying. Seriously. I bite my nails a lot more (which is always a problem, but now extremely-so). I also want to be able to effectively self-motivate, and the only approximation I'm getting of that is getting a few physically-demanding things done here and there while ignoring anything mentally-demanding. I've gotten some house work and maintenance finished now, but haven't managed to push myself to sit still and study instead of just watching Twitch all day.


You have just described an inability to see tasks through to completion, and fidgetiness (a variant of hyperactivity). So what you are describing here is an inability to master two of the common and basic symptoms of ADHD.
The issues here are simple-- does medication help you manage these symptoms or not?, and, if not, what alternatives does your doctor have to offer?

It is easy to dismiss the fidgetiness, but the effects of this symptom are far more wide reaching than mot of us grasp:
Our brains are very well set up to read the emotional states of those physically near to us, and in ordinary situations, being in the presence of a fidgety and restless person is likely to trigger a state of discomfort and restlessness in us.

Fidgetiness is a physical sign that strongly suggests that the fidgety/restless person is in a state of fear and is expecting(and preparing for) a physical attack.


Modafinil did great things for me. It also caused extreme depression as a side-effect, and I think that was because I was so sleep-deprived. You can't use Modafinil to stay up forever; using Modafinil when you're a chronic insomniac apparently has consequences even if you're not trying to abuse it in that way, since you are, just not by choice.

I liked Modafinil.

Despite the depression?


I liked Modafinil. It gave significant, important improvements to my ability to self-motivate. It made my attention system optimal, in that I would notice everything and appropriately attend to anything important, while ignoring things that weren't important. I made fewer dangerous mistakes driving, I got more studying done. It even made everything have notably better visual depth--I'm (partially?) stereo blind, and everything seems flat-ish usually.

The latter ( better stereopsis) is seriously interesting, and might be related to the underlying causes of ADHD.

Do you mind if I pass on your original comment to a clinician who has an interest in this area?


Besides, I have no idea if this is supposed to happen. How the heck do attention issues go away with sleep, but then you feel restless and unable to sit still? Wouldn't you have attention issues first, then fidgeting problems?

Not necessarily. Why do you assume that that would be the case? Attention issues will always be less severe when rested.

bluefoxicy
12-19-16, 01:40 PM
Despite the depression?


The depression was sudden-onset after 13 days. I made mistakes with that drug. My psychiatrist said I can try taking it 200mg in the morning, or split the dose, or take it as-needed (as in less); I started splitting the dose in a desperate attempt to not feel tired all day, because it made me feel awake for about half an hour and it was amazing.

Take note: I had recognized that a small dose produced the clinical effects I needed for the entire day; but I took the maximum dose my psychiatrist suggested to treat a different condition, and I split it across the day for the purpose. That's technically prescription drug abuse. My bad.

I noted that I liked Modafinil in part because I could take one late and then sleep, no problem. I wasn't using it to stay awake all the time; I'd been staying awake a lot more than I thought for over a year.

I can't take Modafinil if it produces that kind of extreme side-effect; I think it caused that effect because of external factors--notably, because I was way more sleep-deprived than Modafinil fixes. Modafinil is for when you're pulling a 30-hour day on 2 hours of sleep, not for when you're pulling a year or so on 2 hours of sleep every day.


The latter ( better stereopsis) is seriously interesting, and might be related to the underlying causes of ADHD.

Do you mind if I pass on your original comment to a clinician who has an interest in this area?


I have no problem with that. I'm not a psychiatrist; I'm an engineer, and I take information and turn it into tools that can be used to solve problems. If someone thinks something I noticed is useful, that's one more tool that will eventually land in my hands.


Not necessarily. Why do you assume that that would be the case? Attention issues will always be less severe when rested.

I don't know. I guess attention issues seem less-severe than physical hyperactivity. The attention issues go away and hyperactive behavior emerges? Emotional control is lost, and my behavior deteriorates; whereas I'm much better behaved and have an easier time self-regulating when I'm nearly dying of exhaustion.

It's just unexpected. It's like my mental health deteriorates as I become well-rested, and improves when I'm sleep-deprived. I'm recovering slowly as I get more rest, and I've started to hear colors and movement and all the synesthesia stuff, as well as experience intrusions of fantasy worlds into reality. I can gauge how healthy my brain is by how much that happens: once I'm fully-recovered, the world will be enveloped in a constant stream of emotional and sensory experiences, and I'll have a lot of internal impulses from the ones bottled up inside me to keep under control (although that's always been easily-managed).

Sometimes I'm not entirely patient, but it's coming along. I'm not entirely sure how long I'd survive in that bland excuse for sanity, anyway; the unadulterated real world is depressingly boring. On the other hand, I have no rewards system and have anhedonia of a fashion (yeah I can get euphoria off certain music; I found one drug that enables me to respond to pleasurable situations with emotional pleasure and causes a rewards-seeking behavior, but it's unregulated); I guess without the support system of schizoid fantasies and strong synesthesia, I'd end up like the other anhedoniacs, figuring on how much less of a pain in the *** life would be if I were just not alive. Never really had to think about it before, and glad that ****'s going away now.

It's funny, I'm off the amphetamine and on sedatives, and people are telling me to go to the doctor and inform them that people can tell I'm on amphetamine because I'm all tweaked-out. ... I'm only tweaked-out when I'm not on it now; I used to be calm and controlled before.