View Full Version : Is my therapist a quack?


leah.faith
12-07-16, 10:50 PM
Hello all.

I finally decided last fall to get tested for ADD and no surprise to me, I was diagnosed.

It took 3 months for all the testing but he yesterday he gave me a formal diagnosis of "Limbic ADD". Neat.

Well, when I look for information on "Limbic ADD" (cause thats what I do, I drink and I research obsessively) and I can't find any. All the sites out there that have information refer back to, from what I can tell, some guy who came up with the theory of 7 sub types of ADD. Theres no actual research behind this. No studies or papers or anything. Just some dude and his theory.

Thats all and well and everything, but I've spent a lot of money and time getting tested but I barely passed any of the criteria and his reasoning for that was "Limbic ADD is a very specific type of ADD" or something....

I'm mainly asking because I have ALOT of ADD symptoms, going all the way back from the 3rd grade. But if I barely test positive for ADD, I want to figure out WTF is wrong with my brain. This whole "Limbic ADD" seems like a way to diagnose me with something just because he had no other thing to diagnose me with.

The guy seemed legit but now I think he's kind of a quack. Any opinions out there?

aeon
12-08-16, 12:48 AM
Yes, quack and ripoff artist, because there are no tests for ADHD, and now you've got a lot less money in your pocket which could have been used otherwise.

Also, the theory behind "7 Types of ADHD" has no basis in peer-reviewed, double-blind, randomized, controlled clinical research, and does not honor the science.

As such, at best it is a theory. Offered as a diagnosis from a clinician, it is rubbish...pure, unadulterated quackery, full stop.


Well-wishes,
Ian

john2100
12-08-16, 01:09 AM
The guy seemed legit

What makes him qualified to diagnose people?
What is his education and certification?

I'm interested how many session and hours did it take?
Can you provide details regarding testing?

Was is paid from your own pocket or partially insurance?
How much was the 3 month testing?

Now that you are diagnoses ,what is he suggesting next?
Therapy ,medication or both?

I've never heard about 3 month testing, most doctors just believe patients regarding ADHD and a short 5min written test is given as a formality for insurance purposes. If you go in with an indication that you may have ADHD , there is a huge chance you will be diagnoses during your first session. If not with ADHD,then depression,OCD,anxiety ,or combination of all.

ginniebean
12-08-16, 01:13 AM
Sorry you got hoodwinked by this guy. it doesn't make your diagnosis invalid. it lined his pocketbook very well. Unfortunately the satelite industries surrounding adhd from book sellers, to therapists etc.. Buyer beware.

Fuzzy12
12-08-16, 03:44 AM
What do you mean qhen you say you've got a lot of symptoms since 3rd grade but barely test positive?

It might be worth going to a psychiatrist for a proper assessment.

leah.faith
12-08-16, 08:23 PM
I went to see him one time for the initial consultation, the 3 other times were for different types of testing <br> (testing my IQ, memory, reading comprehension, ability to track, my use of logic and such), and they took about an hour long, each. <br>The last time I went was for the diagnosis. It took three months because I couldn't go every week.

He's a Psy D so he has training in this stuff. He has is degree from U of M.

The reason I "barely" tested positive was because while I have the signs of a women with ADD, according to<br> his tests, I didn't have the classic issues that people with ADD have.
I don't get distracted by outside influences,
I have good impulse control,
I regularly start and end tasks,
I have a pretty good system of organizing things.
And while I used to have depression and low self esteem, I'm actually pretty happy with who I am as a person. I'm not overly guilty or anxious and I'm confident in who I am


The reason I went to go see the guy in the first place was because I'm extremely unfocused. I lose things regularly (important things, every day things, all things). I have an extraordinarily hard time following directions, in any form. I get in a lot of car accidents and get a lot of speeding tickets. I'm ridiculously messy I'm so forgetful its laughable. Even as I wrote that I forgot the word "laughable" and had to google "synonym for funny". Ironic. Im very indecisive and change things up regularly Even though I'm intelligent school is VERY difficult for me I'm always late to everything. Always. Also my internal dialog is so chaotic AND VERY LOUD!! Which are all the classic signs.

Sooooo, what I'm guessing though, is that is doesn't really matter why I do all those things, its that I do them that matters? <br>I could have gone into a different doctor and did one of those checklist thingys and boom? I have ADD?

I guess I'm disappointed. I was lead to believe that his testing would be super thorough and help guide me towards a good direction of treatment.<br> But it doesn't matter. Because there is no "Limbic ADD" and all ADD is treated pretty much the same... Pills.

What a @#$&ing waste of time.

leah.faith
12-08-16, 08:31 PM
I wanted to add a quick edit to my post.
I have been trying to be a more focused person my whole life. I have a good diet, I exercise regularly, I meditate at night, I don't do drugs or smoke or drink excessively. I sleep 7-9 hours every night. I have lots of hobbies to relieve myself of my nervous energy... I was hesitant for year to get an ADD diagnosis and have done everything I can think of to try and get myself out of my head. I was hoping for some answers and some different methods to deal with what I've been going through. It seems like, if I've been doing all those things anyways, the only other proven treatment is pills.

john2100
12-08-16, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't call him a quack from the tests given . I imagined some holistic sound healing,chakra ,Channeling , chi energy, crystal healing pseudo science with 3 day certification doctor of parapsychology non-sense.

That limbic -ADD is what it is , but it looks like a better approach if you think about it .
That testing wasn't complete , but better then 10min test 99.9% of people get.

If your IQ is very low and your memory is very bad , then you will score at the top of the charts . You don't have adhd but you still score high with 10min test. But an iq test and logic, memory test will confirm that you have the mental ability to do it, but you simply can't.

I was wondering how much was it for 4 sessions?


It seems like, if I've been doing all those things anyways, the only other proven treatment is pills

That is not really correct. If you search this forum , you will see hundreds of people who are saying that meds are not working or meds are not working anymore. If you think the diagnosing is tricky ,wait when you start with the pills. You will have have problems with
-what type ritalin or ampetamins
-extended or instant realese
-what dosage
-which manufacturer , generics differ so much
-generic stops working , what then

Meds are not 100% cure, far from it. ALso taking meds is just a beginning. They are just an aid. Without a proper mind sets,tricks,rules and procedures, you will see a little change.

The question is what do you want to know? Many people can be on the border of add
I think 90% of all people are at the low spectrum of add .

toofast
12-09-16, 01:02 AM
Please don't be so quick to dismiss his diagnosis. At the very least, you should consider it and do your own research. There is such a thing called "Limbic ADD". While I am no doctor and am quite new to these forums, I know that "ADD" is the diagnosis, and "Limbic" is the sub-type.

He is absolutely correct in saying there are 7 sub-types, and they are as follows:
- Classic (ADHD)
- Inattentive
- Overfocused
- Temporal lobe
- Limbic (ie: based on the limbic system, to be specific, the thalamus)
- Ring of fire
- Anxious

I want to reiterate that I am no "expert" in the field, but I just started reading the book "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" by Dr. Daniel G. Amen, founder of the renown Amen Clinics. He is known as "the most popular psychiatrist in America" to date, although that means little to me. I would encourage you to grab a copy of the book and do your own homework, because what you and your therapist are describing is indeed quite real.

Without saying too much, here are a few notes about the Limbic sub-type of ADD as well as a few things you can do to improve your quality of life:

The diagnosis is marked by low PFC as well as high limbic activity in your brain (in my opinion, as well as the author's, the brain is the key ingredient behind all diagnosis). Symptoms include inattentiveness plus chronic low-level sadness. According to the author, the supplements SAMe plus EPA fish oil can help (I 100% stand behind the fish oil, I take it on a daily basis and have noticed positive changes since taking it; it is also linked to improved memory), the recommended medication is Wellbutrin (again, disclaimer: I am no medical expert, so please do your own research or consult an expert in the field), and diet and lifestyle changes include eating a higher protein diet, lower carbs, and exercise.

Of course, all of this assumes that your therapist's diagnosis of Limbic ADD is correct in the first place. There are six other sub-types, so it is by no means a certainty.

Grab a copy of the book and I am sure you will not regret it!

Also, in my honest opinion, your therapist is not a quack at all. He may be on to something, something so profound in fact and relatively new that the industry has not yet caught on to it (and perhaps never will) due to the limited profits compared to conventional means of diagnosis.

I hope this helps!

aeon
12-09-16, 01:21 AM
I hope this helps!

It doesn't.

This is a support forum. Science with a clinically-tested and peer-reviewed focus is welcome.

That which is presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.


Quacks Suck,
Ian

Greyhound1
12-09-16, 02:14 AM
To the OP,
This is currently how DSM V the leading authority breaks down ADHD differences called "presentations" and no longer subtypes. Perhaps we should send a copy to your Dr.

Sorry you went through that.

DSM-5TM

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders – 5th edition (DSM-5TM), used in the USA and the rest of the world for the formal diagnosis of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), was released by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013 and replaces the previous version (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders – 4th Edition [DSM-IV]).1,2

The DSM-5TM defines ADHD as a persistent pattern of inattention and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development, has symptoms presenting in two or more settings (e.g. at home, school, or work; with friends or relatives; in other activities), and negatively impacts directly on social, academic or occupational functioning. Several symptoms must have been present before age 12 years.

Overview of the DSM-5TM medical classification system for ADHD

A persistent pattern of inattention and/or hyperactivity-impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development

Six or more of the symptoms have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is inconsistent with developmental level and that negatively impacts directly on social and academic/occupational activities. Please note: The symptoms are not solely a manifestation of oppositional behaviour, defiance, hostility, or failure to understand tasks or instructions. For older adolescents and adults (age 17 and older), five or more symptoms are required

Several inattentive or hyperactive-impulsive symptoms were present prior to age 12 years

Several inattentive or hyperactive-impulsive symptoms are present in two or more settings (e.g. at home, school, or work; with friends or relatives; in other activities)

There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic or occupational functioning

The symptoms do not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or another psychotic disorder and are not better explained by another mental disorder (e.g. mood disorder, anxiety disorder, dissociative disorder, personality disorder, substance intoxication or withdrawal)

Whilst the fundamental diagnostic criteria for ADHD have not changed in the DSM-5TM compared with the previous version, the DSM-5TM has been updated to more accurately characterise the experience of adolescents and adults with ADHD. This has been achieved with the inclusion of additional examples to illustrate the types of ADHD-related behaviours that adolescents and adults with ADHD may exhibit, as well as ADHD-related behaviours that children may exhibit.

Furthermore, adults and adolescents (aged ≥17) are required to present with a minimum of five (rather than six) symptoms, and symptoms should have been present before age 12 (not before age 7), recognising that adult recall of precise childhood onset is difficult. A pervasive developmental disorder (autism spectrum disorder) is no longer an exclusion criterion. ADHD is now listed in the new category of ‘Neurodevelopmental Disorders’, acknowledging the growing body of scientific evidence supporting brain development correlates with ADHD.3

The DSM-5TM notes that although motor symptoms of hyperactivity become less obvious in adolescence and adulthood, difficulties persist with restlessness, inattention, poor planning, and impulsivity. The DSM-5TM also acknowledges that a substantial proportion of children remain relatively impaired into adulthood.

Presentations of ADHD

Individuals with ADHD may present with both inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity, or one symptom pattern may predominate.

Three presentations of ADHD are commonly referred to: combined-type, inattentive-type and hyperactive/impulsive-type (Table 1).

According to the DSM-5TM classification system, the appropriate presentation of ADHD should be indicated based on the predominant symptom pattern for the last six months.



Presentations of ADHD (table 1)
Combined, Inattentive, Hyperactive/impulsive

All three core features are present and ADHD is diagnosed when ≥6 symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity and ≥6 symptoms of inattention have been observed for ≥6 months

Diagnosed if ≥6 symptoms of inattention (but <6 symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity) have persisted for ≥6 months

Diagnosed if ≥6 symptoms of hyperactivity/impulsivity (but <6 symptoms of inattention) have been present for ≥6 months

Furthermore, the DSM-5TM also states that it must be specified whether the individual with ADHD is in “partial remission” (when partial ADHD criteria have been met for the past six months with full criteria met previously, and the symptoms still result in impairment in social, academic or occupational functioning); and the current severity of the disease (Table 2).

Table 2: Current severity of ADHD

Current severity of ADHD
Mild Moderate Severe
Few, if any, symptoms in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, and symptoms result in no more than minor impairments in social or occupational functioning

Symptoms or functional impairment between “mild” and “severe” are present
Many symptoms in excess of those required to make the diagnosis, or several symptoms that are particularly severe, are present; or the symptoms result in marked impairment in social or occupational functioning.

toofast
12-09-16, 05:36 AM
Quacks Suck
Yes, I agree. Are you one of them? Can you not understand that I was only trying to help?

This is a support forum.
Yes, and I was trying to provide support.

Science with a clinically-tested and peer-reviewed focus is welcome.
Why don't you provide some then?

That which is presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
Fair enough, if you can define what constitutes evidence. Have you read the book? Did you even read my post? Try doing so and then tell me it is not evidence. I also gave a full disclaimer as to my background (or lack thereof), but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant or don't know what I'm talking about.

Here's a novel idea: why don't you let the OP (leah) decide what is most useful to her? Who are you to say what is useful and what is not?

toofast
12-09-16, 06:05 AM
Indeed, the DSM is the leading diagnostic tool as released by the American Psychiatric Association. But there are some flaws with the DSM and I was merely trying to point that out. Just because it is the most popular tool doesn't mean it is the best tool.

For example, in the author's introduction, he writes, "One of the first lessons [that they learned at Amen Clinics] was that symptom clusters like ADD/ADHD, anxiety, depression, and addictions are NOT single or simple disorders in the brain, and they all have multiple types." He goes on to provide an example of "two different people with depression who had virtually the same symptoms, but radically different brain scans. One had low activity, the other high activity. Do you think they'll respond to the same treatment? Of course not! Treatment needs to be tailored to individual brains, not a cluster of symptoms."

That is one of the underlying problems with using the DSM as a diagnostic tool, and it seems I am not alone in that belief. Why else did Thomas Insel, Director of the Institute for National Health from 2002 to 2015, state in a 2005 lecture to the APA, "The current way psychiatrists diagnose patients using the DSM is 100% reliable, meaning that if you diagnose someone using the DSM criteria today, you will likely diagnose them the same way tomorrow, but it is 0% valid, because it is not based on any underlying neuroscience"?

Just some food for thought.

namazu
12-09-16, 06:08 AM
MODERATOR NOTE: Please take a moment to review the site etiquette guidelines (http://www.addforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=75&a=90), and in particular:
*Please remember that ADD Forums is a place for support. All members should feel comfortable at ADD Forums!

*Please be respectful to one another. People come from all different backgrounds and many have different ideas and views on different issues.

*Treat your fellow members with courtesy (especially if you disagree with them).

In this section, members are welcome to express their opinions. (Those who are interested in discussions limited to the published scientific literature are encouraged to seek out the Scientific Discussions section.)

Members are free to take or leave advice as they see fit, to challenge information they believe to be incorrect, and to disagree civilly.

This is a support forum. Accurate information is valued here; respect for others is paramount.

Fuzzy12
12-09-16, 07:54 AM
Op don't be discouraged. This doesn't mean that you don't have adhd or shouldn't get any help for your problems.

Amen's 7 subtypes don't follow the current mainstream accepted view of adhd. For that reason I believe it's better to refer to the dsm for diagnosis. If there is any merit in amen's theory I don't know though.

The tests you mentioned can't really be used to diagnose adhd but maybe they are useful to rule out other disorders or issues.

Adhd is normally diagnosed in a detailed interview with the patient where the entire history of the patient from childhood is discussed to assess symptoms and impairments.

Also I don't agree that in thr majority of cases patients are diagnosed in 10 minutes and just prescribed pills. My diagnosis (all of them ) took about 3h where we discussed everything in detail.

Medication is the first line of treatment for adhd. Few other things have been proven to be as effective as meds. Not everyone can take meds but if you can they are definitely worth trying if you have adhd.

John is right though. For me meds were not enough. It was the combination of meds and behavioural strategies that worked really well for me. However those strategies never worked without medication.

There has been a bit of modest evidence though to show that omega 3 .ugh be uswful as well to vomtrol symptoms and some members have reported good results.

Again I'd suggest that you see a psychiatrist to get diagnosed.

Unmanagable
12-09-16, 11:55 AM
The current mainstream view of treating most things, not only adhd and not only the things found in the DSM book(s), did nothing but screw me up worse than I was when I got there. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his findings, either. There's a lot of valuable information there that's part of the puzzle known as self.

I've learned to pull from each experience, dive into my own research and question findings, regardless of the level of professionalism I'm dealing with, brainstorm with others who have actually overcome or learned to better manage similar issues, and be willing to unlearn what I thought I already knew.

My greatest help and relief has come from who/what most consider and dismiss as "quacks". Grateful I didn't listen to the many nay-sayers who flooded me with doubt in the past. But I'm glad I was presented with those attitudes as it helped me better tune into my own instincts. They tend to steer me in the most healthful directions. Best wishes in your attempts at wellness.

ginniebean
12-09-16, 01:14 PM
I went to see him one time for the initial consultation, the 3 other times were for different types of testing
(testing my IQ, memory, reading comprehension, ability to track, my use of logic and such), and they took about an hour long, each.
The last time I went was for the diagnosis. It took three months because I couldn't go every week.

He's a Psy D so he has training in this stuff. He has is degree from U of M.

The reason I "barely" tested positive was because while I have the signs of a women with ADD, according to
his tests, I didn't have the classic issues that people with ADD have.I don't get distracted by outside influences, (yes you do)
I have good impulse control,(no you don't)
I regularly start and end tasks,(no you don't)
I have a pretty good system of organizing things.(no you don't)
And while I used to have depression and low self esteem, I'm actually pretty happy with who I am as a person. I'm not overly guilty or anxious and I'm confident in who I am The reason I went to go see the guy in the first place was because I'm extremely unfocused.I lose things regularly (important things, every day things, all things).

Distraction IS the key element in losing things. When you're not paying attention to where you put things it's because your mind is elsewhere.


I have an extraordinarily hard time following directions, in any form.

Short term memory issue and poor mental organization ability
I get in a lot of car accidents and get a lot of speeding tickets.

Speeding and car crashes are IMPULSE problems so you are not self aware to how much your impulsiveness is affecting you.

I'm ridiculously messyWhat the hell? How is this not related to starting and ending tasks and good organizational skills? Perhaps in other areas of life your poor organizational skills, (which are also evidenced in not being able to quickly mentally organize directions) are better than others. But frankly your organizational skills suck by your own evidence.
I'm so forgetful its laughable. Even as I wrote that I forgot the word "laughable" and had to google "synonym for funny". Ironic.Word retrieval problems are common in adhd
Im very indecisive and change things up regularlyLacking confidence in your decision making and impulsive changing it up. This suggests an inability to organize your thoughts effectively and again, impulse control issues.


Even though I'm intelligent school is VERY difficult for meUsually for people with adhd it is the persistence to stay on task, reading difficulties, and time awareness that cause the difficulties tho I may have missed one or more causes as well.


I'm always late to everything. Always.Poor ability to time manage and having time blindness is a very adhd thing.

Also my internal dialog is so chaotic AND VERY LOUD!!Distraction and organizing issues.
Which are all the classic signs.

Sooooo, what I'm guessing though, is that is doesn't really matter why I do all those things, its that I do them that matters?
I could have gone into a different doctor and did one of those checklist thingys and boom? I have ADD?

I guess I'm disappointed. I was lead to believe that his testing would be super thorough and help guide me towards a good direction of treatment.
But it doesn't matter. Because there is no "Limbic ADD" and all ADD is treated pretty much the same... Pills.

What a @#$&ing waste of time.What you pretty much learned is you're a combined type adhd. Limbic adhd is out there.

Abi
12-10-16, 02:25 PM
The 7 (it used to be 6) subtypes theory is not supported by mainstream ADHD experts.

I forget the guy's name who made it up.... he basically takes EVERY SINGLE PSYCH DIAGNOSIS and relabels it some form of ADHD

So yes, his followers may be legitimately called "quacks".

kilted_scotsman
12-10-16, 04:08 PM
The thing that rings alarms bells for me is that you call the person who diagnosed you a "therapist".

Over here, even highly qualified psychotherapists do not diagnose and a good one will go to great lengths to avoid putting a "diagnosis" into the mind of a client. It is not part of their skillset and they are not qualified to do it. They may have the knowledge and ability and use DSM/ICD labels in their notes but it's as shorthand for symptom clusters or as an indication of why they are pursuing a particular path or making a referral to another professional.

In short.... if you went to a "therapist" and came out with a DSM diagnosis, the diagnosis isn't worth the paper it is written on. If you want a diagnosis, go to someone with the appropriate letters after their name.... there's more chance of it being legit and also accepted by other professionals..... which is useful when you go looking for treatment.

jkimbo
12-11-16, 03:40 PM
Honestly, therapists imho are nothing more then gloried guidance counslors. If you need to talk to someone and have no one and like to talk, I guess they would be ok then, maybe :)

As for "labels" why do we really care about labels in the first place? I'm 60 and been around this block many, many times. It never changes, bottom line your just getting someone's opinion.

I had a very wise pdoc that sadly passed away, but my new one is pretty close to him. Both could care less about labels and diagnosing and merely treat the symptoms. I can't tell you what a breath of fresh air it is to find a pdoc like that. In fact he went even further to say psychiatry is NOT a science, at best it is merely pseudo scientific.

I know someone is going to pop up eventually to remind me of the "research" done, so let me just lol now regarding their "research" :)

kilted_scotsman
12-11-16, 05:18 PM
Depends what kind of therapist you are talking to ...... some are very like the pdoc jkimbo describes. Unfortunately they are rare.... they're often the older ones who went through a very different training to current "certifications".

Over here in the UK there's a difference between "therapists", "counsellors", "psychotherapists", "psychologists" and "psychiatrists". The key is researching which accrediting body they belong to.

Unfortunately it's almost impossible for the layperson to know whether the accrediting body is one with teeth, or just a figleaf that offers some letters after your name for a fee.

Unfortunately our NHS mental health service only accepts people with fully accredited professional qualifications, but then sticks them in a system where they can't do what their training taught them to do.

Letching Gray
03-01-17, 09:43 PM
Hello all.

I finally decided last fall to get tested for ADD and no surprise to me, I was diagnosed.

What did he recommend that you should do for treatment?

Well, when I look for information on "Limbic ADD" (cause thats what I do, I drink and I research obsessively)

How important is drinking to you? You may need to choose between alcohol and getting ADHD under control.

Thats all and well and everything, but I've spent a lot of money and time getting tested but I barely passed any of the criteria

Ask him to show you how and what he's referring to when he says you "barely passed."

If you have underlying depression, a good medical doctor with experience and expertise diagnosing and treating ADHD (which is often accompanied by co-morbidity), should be able to tease out what you need to do first, second, etc. and which drugs, if any, would be her first choice for you to begin taking.

I'm mainly asking because I have ALOT of ADD symptoms, going all the way back from the 3rd grade. But if I barely test positive for ADD, I want to figure out WTF is wrong with my brain. This whole "Limbic ADD" seems like a way to diagnose me with something just because he had no other thing to diagnose me with.

Get a second and third opinion if necessary. You are worth the investment. Find a doctor you trust.

The guy seemed legit but now I think he's kind of a quack. Any opinions out there?

Whether or not he is qualified as an expert to handle patients with ADHD, there are doctors who definitely are very qualified and can offer you the best known medical intervention to reduce your symptoms and ease the impact of the sadness you experience.

Letching Gray
03-01-17, 09:54 PM
toofast

Also, in my honest opinion, your therapist is not a quack at all. He may be on to something, something so profound in fact and relatively new that the industry has not yet caught on to it (and perhaps never will) due to the limited profits compared to conventional means of diagnosis.

I hope this helps!

Amen clinics are pulling in huge sums of money.

dvdnvwls
03-02-17, 01:33 AM
There is a lucrative business to be done by discovering the distressing questions people commonly ask and for which true and complete answers don't exist, cooking up plausible-sounding and sophisticated (but untrue) explanations, and selling those made-up ideas to the desperate people for a lot of money.

Amen is quite good at that business.

Fraser_0762
03-02-17, 11:38 AM
Can't we all just agree that all of these "professionals" don't really know anything? Regardless of who you side with?

I think we try to be far to specific at times when talking about ADHD. When it's not nearly as straight forward as that.

Just like everybody else, no 2 people with ADHD are exactly the same.

kilted_scotsman
03-02-17, 11:53 AM
Can't we all just agree that all of these "professionals" don't really know anything?

Please don't put ALL "professionals" on one basket, some people are true experts in their field..... of these some are well known and others are not.

Likewise there are some who are well dodgy, some of these are well known and others not.

A friend of mine (who's a "professional" in her field) has the view that.... in personal development even a dodgy guru is a learning experience, but it doesn't feel like it at the time..... the emotion (desire to "punish" the fake guru, or beat oneself up for trusting too much) gets in the way of understanding the value of stumbling in order to learn to walk.

Fraser_0762
03-02-17, 12:00 PM
Please don't put ALL "professionals" on one basket, some people are true experts in their field..... of these some are well known and others are not.

Likewise there are some who are well dodgy, some of these are well known and others not.

A friend of mine (who's a "professional" in her field) has the view that.... in personal development even a dodgy guru is a learning experience, but it doesn't feel like it at the time..... the emotion (desire to "punish" the fake guru, or beat oneself up for trusting too much) gets in the way of understanding the value of stumbling in order to learn to walk.

The people who we consider to be the "true experts" are the one's who merely follow the mainstream view on things. Mainstream views are not absolute though. Just because the majority of people believe something to be correct, doesn't make it so.

Misinformation can spread just as effectively as accurate information, thus turning it into a mainstream view.

kilted_scotsman
03-02-17, 01:05 PM
The people who we consider to be the "true experts" are the one's who merely follow the mainstream view on things.

you may consider true experts to be mainstream.... i tend not to. For me the true experts are the ones who are ahead of the curve.

dvdnvwls
03-02-17, 09:10 PM
Engaging in black-and-white thinking regarding not engaging in black-and-white thinking is pretty meta. :D

kilted_scotsman
03-03-17, 07:21 AM
I was calling out Fraser on his use of "we" and "all" in his posts, trying to point out that "we" doesn't include me and I don't agree with his view that "all" professionals don't know anything....... the B&W thinking is not as important to me as his attempt to project his views onto me/us.

Confronting B&W thinking and the I/We confusion underpins the "Discount Matrix" in psychotherapy.... a way to bring into awareness an individuals "discounting process" and tendency toward what is called "grandiosity".. (believing ones self-limiting views are universally true and validated through projection onto larger group).

This psychological process massively impacts a persons ability to generate, assess and choose behavioural options appropriate to the here and now.

Generating discounts and grandiose thinking in someone else is a means of removing their power***. This stuff is becoming normalised, occurring on both the individual and (with the risk of becoming political) national level.

Jane Austens Pride and Prejudice begins.....

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.

However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.

As hinted by Austen's title, grandiose thinking and discounting is the root of prejudice.

ADDers as a group are often on the receiving end of this stuff, so it pays to be aware of it and understand the process.... this helps us in our own growth, and can help us generate options around fighting back when it's used against us.

"ADHD is a myth, they're all special snowflakes who just need to knuckle down"

This stuff is deadly serious and all around us.....if we, as individuals can get a handle on this.... we empower ourselves...... and others.

*** Interestingly the Discount process and Grandiosity was introduced into psychotherapy by an charismatic individual who went on to terribly abuse their clients, deliberately reducing them to an infantile state. The therapists use of this knowledge, without passing it on to their clients allowed the therapist to slowly destroy the clients ability to make autonomous decisions.

dvdnvwls
03-03-17, 11:25 AM
I was jokingly referring to Fraser himself, who seemed to say "No one knows everything; therefore, nothing is ever known at all." Sorry for any confusion.

Letching Gray
03-05-17, 05:15 AM
Can't we all just agree that all of these "professionals" don't really know anything? Regardless of who you side with?

I think we try to be far to specific at times when talking about ADHD. When it's not nearly as straight forward as that.

Just like everybody else, no 2 people with ADHD are exactly the same.


I agree that each of us, as individuals, is distinct and a unique combination of traits, strengths and weaknesses with our ADHD. I also believe that there are some really excellent professionals in this field. A few of them saved my life. They guided me as I sought medical assistance that has revolutionized my entire life. I can function. It feels as though they removed a malignant tumor.