View Full Version : Getting re-prescribed concerta after psychosis?


Templar1191
01-11-17, 02:55 AM
Hey Guys,

I'm new to the forum. I experienced a psychosis a few months ago. I have been suffering from bad anxiety and ADD all my life, and everything improved when I started 36mg concerta daily 20 months prior to the psychosis.

How likely is it that I can get it re-prescribed? I am an engineer and I really can't get by without it. Basically I'm f***ed; I can't stay awake or focused or remember anything while reading dense technical information I need to do for projects.

How did the psychosis happen? Basically I found that sleeping less helped a lot with my social anxiety. The less I slept, the less anxiety I had, my sense of humour and social aspects of my life improved dramatically. Eventually this resulted in a week of 2hrs sleep/night. I just lost control of it. I honestly thought that psychosis was seeing/hearing things, guess not.

I was admitted to the hospital and put on anti psychotics for a week and then lithium since then.

Had anyone had a similar experience? I'm in NZ.

Thanks :)

dvdnvwls
01-11-17, 07:22 AM
Relying on lack of sleep to be more social is very much like relying on alcohol for the same purpose - you think you're funnier and more interesting, but really you just lose awareness of what you're like to others.

The only way to find out is to talk about it with the doctor who prescribed it in the first place.

Fraser_0762
01-11-17, 07:31 AM
What dvdnvwls says is absolutely correct.

You think you're coming across well to others. But that's just your own perception brought on by insomnia.

The Concerta may have contributed to that insomnia. Because it's extended release it can be fully active for 8-12 hours. If you don't take it early enough in the day then you will have issues getting to sleep at night.

Perhaps request an instant release substitute instead?

Templar1191
01-11-17, 09:14 PM
I didn't find the Concerta keeping me up. When I slept less I just didn't have the constant self doubt thoughts in social situations I normally have.

So you guys have seen people get it represcribed after psychosis?

I tried to explain the sleep thing to the doctors. They didn't pay it any attention. The public system doctors here are trash; really sub part so I'll need to go private.

Thanks

sarahsweets
01-12-17, 12:49 PM
Since you have a cause for the psychosis then I see no issue with it under a closely supervised doctor's care.

C15H25N3O
01-12-17, 10:22 PM
As you dint seem to have a fear to use concerta again I think you should ask your doc for
a prescription but you need like sarah wrote a mayba monthly supervision and more sleep.
If you can buy hemps CBD-oil legally in your country or can get it prescribed it can work
great against anxiety and stimulants side-effects.

You could try melatonin for better sleeping.

Templar1191
01-13-17, 05:15 AM
hey guys,

Thanks for the tips. I just wanted to check this, because there seems to be an unwritten rule in public health in NZ that ADD in adults doesnt *really* exist. It's going to cost me a lot to go private but I don't have any choice here.

Basically because the concerta was in my urine when I was bought into the hospital, they ran me through 6 weeks of psychological testing for my ADD, only to tell me its not "Biological ADD" and that its "unethical" to re-prescribe my concerta.

They probably think I get high on concerta. I think it's a problem for a lot of people on here, when doctors dont believe that attention deficit really exists.

Again, thanks for the support... really appreciated :)

peripatetic
01-13-17, 03:59 PM
ok, so just to be clear: you had a psychotic break and got put into the hospital and are now on lithium (for bipolar, i'm assuming)?

typically, you can't get re prescribed stimulants until you've been stable for at least six months. some doctors might go earlier, but it likely depends on how stable you've been in the past. if you're new to antipsychotics then i think they are exercising an appropriate amount of caution by waiting a while.

i think you also need to really get a grip on what happened with you. i understand you're attributing it to lack of sleep brought about by dealing with social anxiety, but it really sounds like you had a manic episode with psychosis.

they don't usually put people in hospital without a solid reason. and, as someone who, yes, has had psychotic breaks and been prescribed stimulants afterward, i understand and appreciate your desire to do better at work, but you REALLY don't want to bring about another episode. i mean, i don't know what to say about their not believing adhd exists as it certainly does, but frankly you have bigger fish to fry if you're potentially having psychotic breaks.

try to keep stable on your meds and investigate private care, but no responsible doctor is going to let you be discharged for a psychotic break, put you on lithium long term, and then not ensure you're stable before going back onto stimulants. i have to be stable a *minimum* of a year, personally. and i don't share the lithium situation but i certainly know what psychosis that lands you in the hospital is like and avoiding that is more important than your post suggests you realise...

best to you,
-peri

dvdnvwls
01-13-17, 04:26 PM
It's usual for a person who has had a manic episode to know - to really know, deep down - that the mania they experience has other non-psychiatric causes. The reasons always sound very plausible, because they are plausible. Except for one thing: people without bipolar disorder (called manic/depressive in the past) never become manic, no matter what happens in their lives.

Lithium helps to prevent mania. Stimulant medications make it worse.

Templar1191
01-14-17, 09:09 AM
So you attribute the improvement in humour and confidence etc to just triggeringredients of a manic episode?

My mum regularly sleeps 3-6hrs during weekdays and enters light mania.

I didn't mention that I took some lsd with a friend the day prior to emission, for the first time too. It was stupid, but this bipolar condition hasn't exhibited anything short of manic depression for 25yrz... til it was diagnosed.

If I had bipolar, would it not have manifested earlier?

I have uni work to do and currently I'm getting by with amphetamine. I really don't have a choice here, it's small amounts of ampetamine or failure.

But 20mg of amphetamine over 1 month begins to cause my hearing things after the 4th week. I didn't have this problem with Concerta.

The subject of Parnate was mentioned by the doc, I hear it has some add treatment effects.

I was planning on seeing the private psychiatrist 6 months after the episode as well.

We have to remember that I was using amphetamine for treating my condition for 2yrs before I received Concerta and I had zero problems. All nightEra for exams 4x a yr. Surely this would have triggered mania before?

Thanks KS for your input

Templar1191
01-15-17, 08:45 AM
Looks like i'll be treating myself in the mean time.

I can't study, I can't work and I'm going to descend into despair if I don't.

It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have this crippling anxiety. The best I can do is take stimulants and do technical work... programming and writing reports.

I don't even have fun on games anymore and I can't watch movies without losing interest.

Pilgrim
01-15-17, 04:09 PM
Won't a manic episode reappear if you don't work out why. If you aren't concerned now you will be. A decent doctor will help tremendously here.

Pilgrim
01-15-17, 04:13 PM
The hearing of things means your dose is to high. Don't know if this helps but if you talk to a support agency (mental health) they will know the right person to see.

Pilgrim
01-15-17, 04:17 PM
Taking Stimulints, IMO, your always going to get some anxiety. It's something that has to have some professional expertise.

peripatetic
01-16-17, 10:54 AM
So you attribute the improvement in humour and confidence etc to just triggeringredients of a manic episode?

My mum regularly sleeps 3-6hrs during weekdays and enters light mania.

I didn't mention that I took some lsd with a friend the day prior to emission, for the first time too. It was stupid, but this bipolar condition hasn't exhibited anything short of manic depression for 25yrz... til it was diagnosed.

If I had bipolar, would it not have manifested earlier?

I have uni work to do and currently I'm getting by with amphetamine. I really don't have a choice here, it's small amounts of ampetamine or failure.

But 20mg of amphetamine over 1 month begins to cause my hearing things after the 4th week. I didn't have this problem with Concerta.

The subject of Parnate was mentioned by the doc, I hear it has some add treatment effects.

I was planning on seeing the private psychiatrist 6 months after the episode as well.

We have to remember that I was using amphetamine for treating my condition for 2yrs before I received Concerta and I had zero problems. All nightEra for exams 4x a yr. Surely this would have triggered mania before?

Thanks KS for your input

i have no idea how old you are, but, so far as i know, you can be diagnosed with bipolar from childhood through most of adulthood. it can manifest at different times.

i don't personally have bipolar, so perhaps you'd be better asking that of someone who does. is the lithium helpful to you? what did the doctor diagnose you with upon prescribing it?

i do "hear things" though and those are called auditory hallucinations, depending on what you're hearing and when. what did/do you hear? is this right before sleep or upon waking or is this a standard, i hear things, sort of situation? this is generally not a good sign and one that you'd want to DIScontinue using what you later refer to as "speed" if it is happening to you.

with your amphetamine usage...so you've been prescribed amphetamines for two years prior to being prescribed concerta and you're taking it now?

i'm confused on your amphetamine usage. please clarify... cheers. xx

Templar1191
01-16-17, 06:57 PM
I solely believe that the psychosis occurred because I was playing games into the morning and getting by on 2-4hrs sleep. I was having a lot of fun talking and joking online; made a lot of online friends but that isn't really that helpful...

Focusing on a task like study is the only way I can improve my own anxiety/depression. I exercise frequently and try to get out of the house as much as possible.

So I used to take the amphetamine during exams and high stress periods in the past, before I Was prescribed concerta. I would take 20-30mg a day. I noticed I got very very mild auditory hallucinations after being on it for a month daily. At this point I would stop taking it for a couple weeks.

I haven't felt any clear benefits from lithium. Maybe it can help at night with anxiety a bit, but not really.

thanks for the input

dvdnvwls
01-17-17, 03:14 PM
I solely believe that the psychosis occurred because I was playing games into the morning and getting by on 2-4hrs sleep. I was having a lot of fun talking and joking online; made a lot of online friends but that isn't really that helpful...
I know. Of course you believe that. People experiencing mania usually attribute it to trivial causes, just as you've done. Mania skews your perceptions pretty badly; you can't build a convincing case when your data is unreliable.

PaulCamR
01-22-17, 08:22 PM
My little brother had a psychotic episode 2 months ago, and is still recovering on medication. I will try to relate what I know, and impart whatever insight I can.

As I have been told by the psychologist (and I am sure there is more to it than this), recovery from Psychosis NOS requires balancing (reducing) too much dopamine in the frontal portion of the brain. The psychologist suggested that someone who experiences psychosis once is statistically more likely to experience psychosis again. In the case of my little brother, the psychologist said that going off meds may result in the psychosis coming back, and that smoking marijuana at any point in the future may also cause psychosis (he smoked too much marijuana for years to self-medicate for symptoms that link to a frontal lobe disorder, possibly ADD and now many comorbidities).

One of the most important things for anyone's mental health, is of course sleep. A lack of sleep can trigger psychosis. But here is something to think about: Psychosis has a prodrome stage, the full-blown psychotic stage, and the recovery stage. This is very important to note. For my little brother, his lack of sleep was caused by the psychosis in the prodrome stage. He had about a week of next to no sleep prior to his psychotic episode. The question you should ask yourself is: Was it purely the lack of sleep that caused your psychosis, or could you have been in a prodrome stage which caused you to choose not to sleep? If the latter, you may have been experiencing prodrome-stage psychotic symptoms already, due to something else (possibly medication). While the lack of sleep might have tipped you overboard, what I would be concerned with is if there were prodrome-stage thoughts that built up to cause you to choose not to sleep.

Unfortunately all I can provide is some questions to ask yourself. Your doctor, is of course, the most qualified person to go to in order to safely make a decision. As I have learned through my research about ADD/ADHD, medication is all about weighing benefits and risks.

Templar1191
01-28-17, 11:39 PM
People keep reiterating that mania can always be rationalized. Sure, but it happened once. It wasn't a stressful time in my life. My mother and father both get by on 4-5hrs sleep.


Ever wonder why there is a stimulant epidemic?

This is probably the end of the thread. Thanks for the input guys.

sarahsweets
01-29-17, 09:13 AM
People keep reiterating that mania can always be rationalized. Sure, but it happened once. It wasn't a stressful time in my life. My mother and father both get by on 4-5hrs sleep.


Ever wonder why there is a stimulant epidemic?

This is probably the end of the thread. Thanks for the input guys.

I dont know if I would go so far as to say you definitely had a manic episode but you definitely had something that needs to be investigated. I dont think street stimulants are your best bet- I am hoping you dont mean meth- and meds like prescription stimulants are super expensive on the black market. Plus if you ever need to be drug tested for something by a doctor or due to having a surgery or procedure- you will come up hot and you wont have a medication that your disclosed you were on to back you up.

MrAcid
01-29-17, 12:11 PM
With what you are describing, I would be pretty careful with any stim, also LSD has the tendency to increase communication in the brain which, if taken under 25, increase the chances of an underlying psychiatric condition to come up, sometimes even if it would not normally appear without the LSD (but that is rare).

What I am saying is that mabe your brain was working in a way that was hiding a problem and now that your brain works in a more complete and united pattern you start experimenting with that specific issue.

Also no matter what is the issue, the fact that you had a psychotic episode points toward a problem with correct use of dopamine in your brain, and stimulants all increase the impact of dopamine on the brain. So stimulants after a psychosis is like throwing gasoline on a fire that you just put up but is still hot. It could light up again, and I am guessing that you do not want that.

I think your brain is asking for a break. You overloaded your brain with a need to adapt to what you need to be productive and less anxious. He responded by shutting down (psychosis), so IMO the minimun you can do is give him the break he is asking for. I would suggest to find non-chemical ways to treat your issues until you talk to a specialist that could help define if your brain is sensitive to mania or psychosis and work with people who have real experiance.

Not so long ago I was an adept of self medication and treating my problems alone, and I can tell you that no matter how smart you are or how much knowledge you have what is important is experiance, and the only people with real experiance are specialists.

I hope you find what you need, and be patient sometimes the solution is at the last place we expected it to be.

MrAcid
01-29-17, 12:37 PM
Dude, you may be right, but you may also be wrong, the fact that you are ready to put your own mental health in your hands shows that you are probably taking your mental health for granted, I was doing that and when I saw my brother doing the same as me and end up in psychosis made me think.

I would sugges you do the same, because if you are right, the doc will find the answer too but he will also make sure that other things that you are not aware of are not having an impact.

Self medication is never a good idea because even with full knowledge of neurology and pharmacology, sometimes the need to get rid of the problem clouds the ability to chose clearly the solution, making us opt for short term but quick relief solutions, doctors do not have that cloud. They can be trusted, and if you find that your doc can't just find another, one that can be trusted.

Accepting help is the best solution, better than any solution you can come up with, life has a strange way of showing us that together in trust we can create something far better than alone in our head.

Laserbeak
01-30-17, 12:21 AM
Have you ever tried more conventional old-fashioned stimulants like Adderall or Dexedrine? It seems to me, at least anecdotally, that newer name-brand tend to have worse side effects than the older drugs.

PaulCamR
01-30-17, 12:34 AM
People keep reiterating that mania can always be rationalized. Sure, but it happened once. It wasn't a stressful time in my life. My mother and father both get by on 4-5hrs sleep.


Ever wonder why there is a stimulant epidemic?

This is probably the end of the thread. Thanks for the input guys.

Aside from what you have said above, I am concerned about these things you've said:

- "I have uni work to do and currently I'm getting by with amphetamine. I really don't have a choice here, it's small amounts of ampetamine or failure. But 20mg of amphetamine over 1 month begins to cause my hearing things after the 4th week. I didn't have this problem with Concerta. "
- "I solely believe that the psychosis occurred because I was playing games into the morning and getting by on 2-4hrs sleep."
- "How did the psychosis happen? Basically I found that sleeping less helped a lot with my social anxiety. The less I slept, the less anxiety I had, my sense of humour and social aspects of my life improved dramatically."

Please don't be offended, but I will list my concerns:
- You recreationally use LSD, and also use "amphetamines"
- You feel your life is falling apart without Concerta, and you will turn to street drugs to fill that gap in your life.
- You don't trust any of the doctors, nor the professional opinion of the hospital. You don't seem to be interested in finding a doctor who you get along with?
- You hear voices when you take amphetamines (not Concerta), but you utilize amphetamines (plus Concerta?) in order to function and be motivated.
- You perceive yourself as sociable, interesting, and humorous when you are sleep deprived and on drugs.

If you were hearing voices when you took amphetamines, then you were experiencing psychotic symptoms. You seem to be referencing multiple psychotic episodes at different points in your life, based on the way you're talking about your amphetamine usage.

Remember, psychosis can cause brain damage. Even if you're not experiencing acute psychosis (the kind that put you in the hospital). The grey matter in your brain gets damaged, dopamine goes out of whack in your frontal lobe, and all kinds of bad things happen. Someone's ability to critically reason and make safe decisions is hampered by psychosis. I would say that if you're still hearing voices, or consuming things that cause you to hear voices, then you should seek medical help.

Much of what you are describing in this thread are not healthy behaviors, habits, feelings, or needs.

peripatetic
01-30-17, 11:19 PM
moderator note

thread reopened. no encouragement/support of medication misuse or illegal use of medication allowed.

feel free to review our guidelines. http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75

Templar1191
04-20-17, 07:24 AM
Aside from what you have said above, I am concerned about these things you've said:

- "I have uni work to do and currently I'm getting by with amphetamine. I really don't have a choice here, it's small amounts of ampetamine or failure. But 20mg of amphetamine over 1 month begins to cause my hearing things after the 4th week. I didn't have this problem with Concerta. "
- "I solely believe that the psychosis occurred because I was playing games into the morning and getting by on 2-4hrs sleep."
- "How did the psychosis happen? Basically I found that sleeping less helped a lot with my social anxiety. The less I slept, the less anxiety I had, my sense of humour and social aspects of my life improved dramatically."

Please don't be offended, but I will list my concerns:
- You recreationally use LSD, and also use "amphetamines"
- You feel your life is falling apart without Concerta, and you will turn to street drugs to fill that gap in your life.
- You don't trust any of the doctors, nor the professional opinion of the hospital. You don't seem to be interested in finding a doctor who you get along with?
- You hear voices when you take amphetamines (not Concerta), but you utilize amphetamines (plus Concerta?) in order to function and be motivated.
- You perceive yourself as sociable, interesting, and humorous when you are sleep deprived and on drugs.

If you were hearing voices when you took amphetamines, then you were experiencing psychotic symptoms. You seem to be referencing multiple psychotic episodes at different points in your life, based on the way you're talking about your amphetamine usage.

Remember, psychosis can cause brain damage. Even if you're not experiencing acute psychosis (the kind that put you in the hospital). The grey matter in your brain gets damaged, dopamine goes out of whack in your frontal lobe, and all kinds of bad things happen. Someone's ability to critically reason and make safe decisions is hampered by psychosis. I would say that if you're still hearing voices, or consuming things that cause you to hear voices, then you should seek medical help.

Much of what you are describing in this thread are not healthy behaviors, habits, feelings, or needs.

Thank you paul, you're really bang on there. None of this is healthy behaviour, but it keeps me from the end of a rope, if you get my drift? No, probably not.

I can't help getting frustrated here.

I wanted to be honest with you guys, but the truth is that I can't be. Just like with the doctors, so many crucial aspects of my case are misinterpreted, misconstrued, or simply made up when talked about. There's plenty of reasons for this, but none work in my favor.

I'm not sure where you got the LSD thing from paul? I did not engage in LSD use ever, but I had tried a milder psychedelic a handful of times in the past.

I had a period of 2 months of progressive sleep deprivation, sticking to my regular 32mg of concerta/day, which led up to my psychosis in sept last year.

Amphetamine did not play a role in the single case of psychosis that I experienced. However, I had used it at 20mg/day for 2x 1 month periods (Exam time) in place of concerta for 3 years. Didn't read that part either, huh.

In the last few days of exam periods, after extended sleep deprivation and high stress, I would sometimes hear sounds that were not there. They were rare and infrequent, but I could stop the study habits and amphetamine use as it was the end of the exam period. Common for sleep deprivation as well.

The only doctor I feel that can help me at all is one that is willing to take a risk on my treatment. I dont see this happening in a ****ty public health system, nor am I able to choose doctors.

The simple facts are this. Single, abusive mother, no father figure, probably autistic, constantly berated and criticized, excessively opinionated and angry at everything. She was probably 20 years too old to have a child, too. Old mothers do wonders for mental disorders in children!

I was raised by a frequently manic, sleep deprived woman, who would take great satisfaction in scolding and criticizing my father, who often reacted angrily. After 5 years of this, my mother took me and a large sum of cash and moved to another country.

I am a product of this. The root of the problem is this, and no one is willing to admit or even talk about its role in mental illness.

Am I depressed? Or is it just heavy anxiety? Why is my mind in a constant haze of negativity? Do I really have bipolar, considering no manifestation of mania in the past? Why was I able to use stimulants for years without problems? What is wrong with me, and why the f*** wont these demons leave me alone?

These are all critical questions, and questions I will probably never unravel. But the surest way to the end of a rope is a condition untreated that stops me functioning socially and economically.

Laserbeak: Adderall isn't prescribed here in NZ, which is why I used to use concerta. I found concerta had less side effects compared to amphetamine based medications like adderall. I didnt experience sleep disturbance on concerta.

Mr Acid: you may well be correct. I will be doing therapy with an open mind, but going on its track record as a sole treatment method, I am not optimistic.

Sarah: I would like to not take unprescribed stimulants, but I have research to do and papers to finish at university, and it won't be happening without them. I did try it though for 3 weeks without... I achieved a measly three pages in a report over that 3 weeks.

I was after stories about people getting represcribed after psychosis, but thank you anyway to people who contributed.

InnerCircle
06-26-17, 04:34 PM
I was prescribed stimulants after having a psychotic episode, however I had to temporarily (1 month) go off of them while recovering from psychosis before my doctor was willing to prescribe them again. Good luck, I hope you find a doctor that treats your ADHD.

Little Missy
06-26-17, 07:50 PM
hey, if its worth anything, I was prescribed amphetamines after being unceremoniously thrown into the state hospital. they even took me in a helicopter with the sheriff. honest.