View Full Version : Should I ask for Desoxyn instead?


elite242lbs
01-25-17, 12:47 AM
I started with Vyvanse but the extended release mechanism did not work well for me. Then I went from adderall XR 30mg to Adderall IR 20mg x 2 to Adderall XR 30mg with 10-20mg booster to Adderall XR 60mg in the AM, to now Adderall IR 30mg x 2 bc my insurance would no longer cover 60mg of XR, only IR. I requested to switch to Dexedrine Spansule to stay with extended release meds since my insurance covers up to 60mg of the Spansules. I like the fact that it is less physically stimulating and seems to have less pronounced side-effects but the Doc insisted I try the IR first. I also like that the Dex Spansules have a shorter duration than the Adderall Xr allowing 2 or maybe 3 doses per day. I recently started reading about Desoxyn and was intrigued and luckily my insurance also covers it with no prior authorization adn it also seems to last as longer than other IR meds. And Desoxyn seems to be even smoother and more potent in some ways than interest me than Dexedrine. My insurance would allow a max of 25mg of Desoxyn with no prior authorization compared to 60mg Dexedrine ER or IR. Is it too early to ask for Desoxyn? What dose would a typical starting dose of Desoxyn for someone who has been on 60mg of Adderall. Any suggestions and advice would surely be appreciated.

aeon
01-25-17, 04:08 AM
You should never ask for Desoxyn.

And good luck filling that prescription if you have it.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Dex spansules were of shorter duration than Adderall XR. The mechanisms are virtually the same...and the rest will vary from patient to patient.

Explore dextroamphetamine-based options first. Realize Desoxyn is a last-resort choice, and few doctors will go there anyway.


Cheers,
Ian

Little Nut
01-25-17, 10:54 AM
Aeon, AFAIK the spansule is a mix of quick and sustained release. Adderall XR is a biphasic release mechanism, now and the remainder at some time in future. This is a little fuzzier for me, but the The Dexedrine Spansule shoots for 6 hours and Adderall XR shoots for 8 hours. Again I never understood these numbers due to wide differences of individuals for duration. If my understanding is wrong, a reference would be much appreciated. TIA, -LN

elite242lbs
01-25-17, 11:35 AM
Thanks aeon for putting things into perspective. My doctor would probably have thought I was nurs and I have a good honest and trusting relationship with my doctor. I would rather be well informed before presenting any ideas to her. She was hesitant to prescribe the Dexedrine ER, she looked at max prescribed dose and that it only came in 15mg caps and seemed to hesitate so she had me try the Adderall IR first 30mg IR 2 a day. She doesn't seem to have much experience prescribing it, so any concrete information I can provide her with would be beneficial.

I also would like to note that I always bring my wife with me and have her provide her input and observations. Also bring her recent EKG', have done three in the past 3 months. I'm 35 and a heavy guy who likes to lift weights so my heart worries me.

The reason I stated Dex ER had a shorter action was because from what I have read, Spansules have an old waxy bead delivery system. Also, Adderall XR contains Levoamphetamine which also adds a longer half-life making both the IR and XR longer acting. Most documentation reflects a max duration of 10 hours for Dexedrine Spansules and 12 hours for Adderall XR. With Dexedrine Spansules I find that most users report about 5-6 hours of coverage. I was getting about 6 to 7 hours from the Adderall XR. I have seen cases where Dexedrine Spansules are prescribed 2 and even 3 times a day. I would most likely get started with 15mg Spansules at 45mg - 60mg. How would one split 45mg? Last time I brought a 60mg Adderall XR script to my pharmacist he said he needed to contact my doctor first because he needed to make sure she needed to make a mistake. 60mg XR in the AM he said was a high dosage and explained to me about a black box warning. I want to make sure I don't encounter problems like this again.

Aeon, do you have any suggestions or references you can provide in trying to extend the life of the medication. I saw in your post you get 10 hours of coverage from your dex, I would love that kind of coverage but the only thing I have added is fish oil and soon magnesium chelates at 500mg at night before bed.

I was thinking of either going with 30mg in the AM and 15mg in the afternoon or if prescribed 60mg I would do 30mg twice daily instead. But if I could do all 60mg in the AM and get at least 8 hours I would be super happy.

aeon
01-25-17, 12:35 PM
Aeon, AFAIK the spansule is a mix of quick and sustained release. Adderall XR is a biphasic release mechanism, now and the remainder at some time in future. This is a little fuzzier for me, but the The Dexedrine Spansule shoots for 6 hours and Adderall XR shoots for 8 hours. Again I never understood these numbers due to wide differences of individuals for duration. If my understanding is wrong, a reference would be much appreciated. TIA, -LN

A quick study of the actual physical release mechanism reveals they are the same, but that said, there is no way to determine what polymer is used on the CR/XR beads, which could of course result in differences.

Also, if you look at the plasma concentrations over time for each of the two meds, you’ll see that their curves are very similar, both in terms of shape and duration...and there is no dual peak for Adderall, which I would expect with a dual-release med functioning as two IRs offset in time.

Adderall’s mix of salts and the presence of levo- likely results in a longer time to metabolize, and that’s Shire’s old marketing anyway. ;)

In any case, trying to find anything that is definitive is difficult, especially any kind of 1:1 comparison and contrast.

I found this old nugget in my searching: :) (with spelling error intact)

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/727/23028958560_2ae3ddc5bd_o.png

Little Nut
01-25-17, 03:26 PM
Aeon, tyvm. I went ahead and looked at an Adderall XR blood plasma plots I had looked at in the past. I realized I had confused the associated legend, but after resolving that and comparing to the plots you supplied, I find myself confused. (XR, no hump, IR hump, crushed no hump, spansule hump ?!?!?!) Tried to rationalize what this is saying about release rate differences if any and it just ended up hurting my head.

I included the Adderall plots. Anywhoo, thanks. -LN

http://images.rxlist.com/images/rxlist/adderallxr1.gif

C15H25N3O
01-27-17, 04:04 PM
But ... blood plasma is not level of effectiveness. Effectiveness is a kind of echo with a lot of delay in the end. :D

elite242lbs
01-30-17, 04:00 PM
I received a script for Desoxyn, 10mg BID (20mg/day). First I asked about Dexedrine ER but she wanted me to go another direction. At one point or another I simply suggested Desoxyn. I asked what her thoughts were and I ended up with the script for 120 tabs. I was told to experiment how I dosed the four 5mg tabs but not to exceed 20mg/day.

Little Missy
01-30-17, 05:01 PM
I received a script for Desoxyn, 10mg BID (20mg/day). First I asked about Dexedrine ER but she wanted me to go another direction. At one point or another I simply suggested Desoxyn. I asked what her thoughts were and I ended up with the script for 120 tabs. I was told to experiment how I dosed the four 5mg tabs but not to exceed 20mg/day.

So, how do you like it?:)

elite242lbs
01-30-17, 07:12 PM
So, how do you like it?:)

Decided to use my insurance mail order service, just mailed my script. Should have it by the end of the week.

Little Nut
01-31-17, 11:45 AM
But ... blood plasma is not level of effectiveness. Effectiveness is a kind of echo with a lot of delay in the end. :D

Who said it was?

elite242lbs
02-09-17, 11:57 PM
So, how do you like it?:)

Little Missy, I think it's quite the drug but it's too early to tell. When I think it has worn off I become engaged and it reappears. Right now I'm on 10mg twice per day. Going with that for a few more days and then may play around a bit more with my dosing schedule.

jeffb74
02-10-17, 09:41 PM
How is the desoxyn been compared to adderall IR for your add symptoms?

elite242lbs
02-10-17, 11:32 PM
How is the desoxyn been compared to adderall IR for your add symptoms?

It's quite early to tell, so far so good. Today wasn't such a great day, I didn't get a good nights sleep. t's not like I sleep very well with two little girls, a 3 month old and a 2 year old but I'm typically able to go right back to sleep after waking and last night I could not. My wife liked that I was more alert on Adderall, I might ask to try adding some Focalin or Dexedrine with the Desoxyn. I'm sure if my dose was raise to to say 35mg-40mg things might be different. My insurance limits me to 150 tabs per month so that's a max of 25mg/day. I can pay for the other meds out of pocket but the Desoxyn I cannot.

jeffb74
02-11-17, 09:40 PM
I know it's early, but have you noticed if possible any positives or what has stood out using Desoxyn compared to the vyvanse, adderall ir, and adderall xr you tried in the past?

jeffb74
02-11-17, 10:53 PM
It's quite early to tell, so far so good. Today wasn't such a great day, I didn't get a good nights sleep. t's not like I sleep very well with two little girls, a 3 month old and a 2 year old but I'm typically able to go right back to sleep after waking and last night I could not. My wife liked that I was more alert on Adderall, I might ask to try adding some Focalin or Dexedrine with the Desoxyn. I'm sure if my dose was raise to to say 35mg-40mg things might be different. My insurance limits me to 150 tabs per month so that's a max of 25mg/day. I can pay for the other meds out of pocket but the Desoxyn I cannot.

I know it's early, but have you noticed if possible any positives or what has stood out using Desoxyn compared to the vyvanse, adderall ir, and adderall xr you tried in the past?

elite242lbs
02-12-17, 12:44 AM
I know it's early, but have you noticed if possible any positives or what has stood out using Desoxyn compared to the vyvanse, adderall ir, and adderall xr you tried in the past?

I can say compared to those other meds that it feels very different especially the higher you go up. I found it has a very smooth and quick onset and virtually no crash at 5mg - 10mg per dose. I can sit down and have a conversation without the feeling that I am wasting my time or in fear that I might get caught up in something not important and the medication would be wearing off soon. When I tried 15mg one morning that felt like a different drug, something more recreational than therapeutic for me. I found I was not interested in experimenting further with a higher single dose. 10mg is so far the dose I found works best for me. If I could I would be interested in 10mg x 3 but that is not approved by my insurance. I don't understand why cap the dose at 25mg/day, per guidelines it is intended for twice daily dosing.

jeffb74
02-12-17, 02:26 PM
I can say compared to those other meds that it feels very different especially the higher you go up. I found it has a very smooth and quick onset and virtually no crash at 5mg - 10mg per dose. I can sit down and have a conversation without the feeling that I am wasting my time or in fear that I might get caught up in something not important and the medication would be wearing off soon. When I tried 15mg one morning that felt like a different drug, something more recreational than therapeutic for me. I found I was not interested in experimenting further with a higher single dose. 10mg is so far the dose I found works best for me. If I could I would be interested in 10mg x 3 but that is not approved by my insurance. I don't understand why cap the dose at 25mg/day, per guidelines it is intended for twice daily dosing.
have you tried 10 mg as first dose early in am, 10 mg second dose, and 5mg dose not too late in the day as your last dose so you can take 25 mg which is the highest amount approved by your insurance.

Or what about 10mg , then 5mg, and 10mg for the last dose. Though I wonder if 10mg for last dose might be too much if you are trying to get to sleep at a traditional hour which is all relevant depending on your work, family, life schedule etc...

elite242lbs
02-12-17, 09:26 PM
have you tried 10 mg as first dose early in am, 10 mg second dose, and 5mg dose not too late in the day as your last dose so you can take 25 mg which is the highest amount approved by your insurance.

Or what about 10mg , then 5mg, and 10mg for the last dose. Though I wonder if 10mg for last dose might be too much if you are trying to get to sleep at a traditional hour which is all relevant depending on your work, family, life schedule etc...

That is what I most likely will end up at, 10, 10, and 5. I have also considered 10 in the AM, followed by 5mg after meals. My diet consists of 5-6 full meals throughout the day which leaves me feeling slightly sluggish after consuming.

b3nault
02-14-17, 10:37 PM
I am currently taking 25 mg/day (15mg morning/10mg afternoon) of Mayne generic Desoxyn. It is definitely butter smooth, but lacks the motivational kick that Dexedrine Spansules give me. I tend to be a little testy with Desoxyn compared to Dexedrine also, but without either, I have zero patience an extremely short temper.

The old Mylan generic was superior to this Mayne generic, it was more consistent and helped my symptoms a lot more. I am really wondering what the Brand version of Desoxyn is like.

I am considering going back to Dexedrine Spansules, but I'm having trouble figuring out what the good generics are now days. Seems to be a mystery. lol

I dont think I seen it, but are you taking a generic or Brand? Who is the manufacturer?

elite242lbs
02-14-17, 11:23 PM
I am currently taking 25 mg/day (15mg morning/10mg afternoon) of Mayne generic Desoxyn. It is definitely butter smooth, but lacks the motivational kick that Dexedrine Spansules give me. I tend to be a little testy with Desoxyn compared to Dexedrine also, but without either, I have zero patience an extremely short temper.

The old Mylan generic was superior to this Mayne generic, it was more consistent and helped my symptoms a lot more. I am really wondering what the Brand version of Desoxyn is like.

I am considering going back to Dexedrine Spansules, but I'm having trouble figuring out what the good generics are now days. Seems to be a mystery. lol

I dont think I seen it, but are you taking a generic or Brand? Who is the manufacturer?

Well, if you figure this mystery out please let us know. I have two more options left, either go up in dose with desoxyn or change to either dex or focalin.

jeffb74
02-19-17, 03:30 PM
Hey Elite242lbs, can you update us on your Desoxyn dosing schedule and how the desoxyn has been now that I assume you have been taking it for more days.

b3nault
02-19-17, 08:37 PM
Hey Elite242lbs, can you update us on your Desoxyn dosing schedule and how the desoxyn has been now that I assume you have been taking it for more days.

I second this. 👍

elite242lbs
02-20-17, 08:39 PM
At this point, I have tried taking 20mg all in the morning and that has worked well for me on certain days. I do this because those days I have to wake up extra early and need to be the most productive during those early hours. Again, I don't experience a crash which is lovely. I simply feel the onset come quickly and then a solid amount of productive hours. No jitters, no side-effects to speak of. But I am ready to do what I have to do during those times and at that dose. I am also able to stay awake and stay alert driving long distances. At most if I come home I can take a small nap, 30 min or so and feel good to go. Other times with my previous meds I would want to take much longer naps. 10mg in the am is ok, but I sometimes feel like its at its best during my second 10mg dose. I will talk to my doc to see if i can get a 15mg Dex Spansule (preferably) and if not Focalin XR or whatever my doc suggests for the AM to help at least during these very tiring few months while we adjust to our baby. I certainly won't push for it, I am very happy with this med. Heart rate or blood pressure is not impacted like with Adderall. I can eat, sleep, hit the gym without feeling overly stimulated.

jeffb74
02-20-17, 09:06 PM
At this point, I have tried taking 20mg all in the morning and that has worked well for me on certain days. I do this because those days I have to wake up extra early and need to be the most productive during those early hours. Again, I don't experience a crash which is lovely. I simply feel the onset come quickly and then a solid amount of productive hours. No jitters, no side-effects to speak of. But I am ready to do what I have to do during those times and at that dose. I am also able to stay awake and stay alert driving long distances. At most if I come home I can take a small nap, 30 min or so and feel good to go. Other times with my previous meds I would want to take much longer naps. 10mg in the am is ok, but I sometimes feel like its at its best during my second 10mg dose. I will talk to my doc to see if i can get a 15mg Dex Spansule (preferably) and if not Focalin XR or whatever my doc suggests for the AM to help at least during these very tiring few months while we adjust to our baby. I certainly won't push for it, I am very happy with this med. Heart rate or blood pressure is not impacted like with Adderall. I can eat, sleep, hit the gym without feeling overly stimulated.
elite, thanks for sharing your experience. Curious how long(hours) would you say you get at a 10 mg dose of it helping your add symptoms,
and compare that to a 20mg dose(how many hours )of it helping your add symptoms. Ancdeotally I have read that Desoxyn even at lower doses might last longer(effective symptom treatmen) and be more productive compared to adderall and dexedrine in comparable doses which i am not sure you can truly compare in that sense.

Also now that you have been taking it longer have you noticed any side effects at 10mg or at 20 mg doses?? thanks...

elite242lbs
02-21-17, 01:03 AM
elite, thanks for sharing your experience. Curious how long(hours) would you say you get at a 10 mg dose of it helping your add symptoms,
and compare that to a 20mg dose(how many hours )of it helping your add symptoms. Ancdeotally I have read that Desoxyn even at lower doses might last longer(effective symptom treatmen) and be more productive compared to adderall and dexedrine in comparable doses which i am not sure you can truly compare in that sense.

Also now that you have been taking it longer have you noticed any side effects at 10mg or at 20 mg doses?? thanks...

I think my body is still adjusting to the med but I felt like the 20mg lasted 6 hours on Saturday. I had very poor sleep and typically even on 30mg Adderall IR I would dose off, with MAS I had to have my sleep but with this that was not the case. So after the 6th hour I took a 30-60min nap and I felt recharged. The first week when i had a day off on the weekend to sleep in, I woke to take my 10mg dose as usual and went back to sleep. 2 hours later I woke feeling completely rested and the effects just as pronounced as if I had taken the med 30-60min prior. It's a very nice sleep after taking the med, very peaceful. So as you can see it can be tough to judge duration at this point, mostly because many other factors can come into play. For example, the first day I took 5mg every hour until I reached 15mg, and about 5 hours later when I was engaged I swear I felt like the pill started taking full effect. So I really would have to get back to you on that. Also, some meals seem to slow down the effects and others seem to make it more pronounced. Especially meals later in the day. I hope I'm not leaving you more confused, lol.

jeffb74
02-21-17, 09:43 AM
Elite, any side effects to speak of on the 10 mg or 20mg dose?

elite242lbs
02-22-17, 12:08 AM
Elite, any side effects to speak of on the 10 mg or 20mg dose?

None really, my heart rate and bp remain the same most of the times I have checked. I have seen my heart rate elevate a couple of times, don't know why in particular those times. But at doses of 20mg/day I think it's extremely easy on the body as far as I can tell.

jeffb74
03-18-17, 09:21 PM
None really, my heart rate and bp remain the same most of the times I have checked. I have seen my heart rate elevate a couple of times, don't know why in particular those times. But at doses of 20mg/day I think it's extremely easy on the body as far as I can tell.


Hello Elite, can you update us on how the Desoxyn is working out for you? Are you still taking it? Your impressions of Desoxyn now that it's been a few weeks to several weeks? I assume you are taking 25 mg a day ? Thanks, jeff b