View Full Version : Is it strange that i take 80 mg of Dexamphetimine a day and sleep all night?


Crazycounter
02-05-17, 04:43 AM
So recently iv been diagnosed with ADHD to my utter amazement, being a 33 year old man. My life up to this point has been utter chaos, so this diagnosis and newfound understanding of what and why I am like I am is somewhat of a real eyeopener. To put it more dramatically... EUREKA!!! Finally after countless run'ins with the law, alcohol abuse, lost girlfriends and 1 wife, I can finally start to pull my life out of the gutter and start living, without the constant input of meaningless babble that i was adamant, everyone else heard as well.


My psychiatrist left it in my capable hands to experiment with some guidlines to follow such as keeping a diary and increasing the dose each day. I started 1 week ago. I started with 3- 5 mg tablets day 1. I couldn't sleep. Day 2 i got myself out of bed and had (what most probably wouldn't have had) 2- 5mg tablets.

At this point all i was thinking was that I need to stay awake all day. eating was quite an ordeal all day but the second day ended up like so: 2x 5mg every 4 hours and I had 3 Doses.
That night I slept like the dead. The dreams on the otherhand, were extremely vivid. I haven't dreamed like that in a long time.

Woke up at 0600 extremely groggy. Took 3 tablets every 4 hours but by 5 in the afternoon i felt like crap so i decided to experiment and had 2 more tablets. Slept but was a little restless.

Woke up same time and proceeded to take 3 tablets 4 times. My appetite started to return and i slept really well that night. Must mention that i am very fit and exercise everyday.

Next day i tried 4 tablets 3 doses but by the late afternoon had the feeling like when i wasn't medicated start to creep back in so i took another 4 tablets thinking it might screw with my sleep but oh well its the weekend.

Slept like a baby. So iv stuck with this routine and I am experiencing amazing changes in my ability's to concentrate on things I have never been able too before. Last week i would not have been able to write this thread....
I even Wrote a cover letter for a job application, which i sent to my mother to proof read before posting and she rang and asked who wrote it for me. She was amazed I wrote it. So am I to tell the truth..

Anyway.. to my question.. Does anyone else on here take a similar amount of medication to my own? I would like to hear others experiences!



So I'm on the way up and life is definitely improving. I'm so happy right now!

Pilgrim
02-05-17, 07:35 AM
Hey mate,
Routine is so important with these medications. I personally wouldn't worry on the amount of medication you take. Become well schooled on ADD it will serve you well. Enjoy

Fraser_0762
02-05-17, 08:06 AM
Take what you're prescribed and when you're supposed to. It's so easy to abuse this type of medication and can lead down a very dark road if you're careless with it. Even if it seems great right now.

It's the withdrawal that can make it difficult to sleep at night, which is why taking a small dose of the medication late at night can help to offset some of this and make it easier to sleep.

Postulate
02-06-17, 01:13 PM
Ok, right now you're in a place you don't wana be. What I would do is reduce my dose to 10mg/day right away. What will happen is, once you get a night's sleep after reducing your dose, the following 2-3 mornings you won't be able to open your eye lids so you'll likely sleep a lot. After a week you should be back on track and make the most of a 10-15mg dose.

Also, the first morning you wake up after reducing your dose to 10mg or less, you might experience a brief episode of psychosis, where you won't recall who you are and what season is outside. Your dream will likely interpose with the reality around you like your bed sheets and pillow and appear to you like it's part of some kind of puzzle. Once you're out you will be astonished to notice the difference between what was before you fell asleep and what is now. This will only last for a few minutes so it's nothing to be worried about.

Also you might do an enormous amount of sweating during that night, so make sure no one has access to your bed because they will be astonished by the soaking sheets and will likely ask you what you did. Keep hydrated.

aeon
02-06-17, 01:48 PM
Does anyone else on here take a similar amount of medication to my own?

I take 60mg/day of dextroamphetamine sulfate, and that is what I am prescribed. I donít experiment or play around with the amount, as I know:

this works for me, and
doing so would end badly



Cheers,
Ian

salleh
02-06-17, 02:36 PM
....The biggest problem I see you having is that you're all over the place with your dosage .....try a set routine for your meds for a week or two and let your body get used to it .....

....I have been taking adderall or dex for about 20 years now .....I take 30 mg 3 times a day......as I work many hours every day ...and the days I do shows, I take 4 tabs ....but it's a day that starts at about 3 and goes to 6 ....and I have to be alert the entire time,....

,....My doc trusts me to know when a heavy day is real and I need the extra meds for mental alertness ....

/
.....my 30 mg lasts between 3 and 4 hours.....I certainly wish i needed less, but I need what I need .....took me years to get up the courage to ask for more than 60 mg ....but I ended every month short ...because I took the amount I needed when my extra days came around .....

...so get yourself on a schedule .....then you have a basis to work from

dvdnvwls
02-06-17, 07:49 PM
Increasing each day is objectively a mistake. Your doctor was wrong. It takes several days (about 5) for each dosage to reach a stable rhythm in your system. Therefore, it's best to take each dose for a full week before you judge it.

Exception: If you know your new dose is too much, cut back immediately.

sarahsweets
02-07-17, 11:43 AM
Ok, right now you're in a place you don't wana be. What I would do is reduce my dose to 10mg/day right away. What will happen is, once you get a night's sleep after reducing your dose, the following 2-3 mornings you won't be able to open your eye lids so you'll likely sleep a lot. After a week you should be back on track and make the most of a 10-15mg dose.

Also, the first morning you wake up after reducing your dose to 10mg or less, you might experience a brief episode of psychosis, where you won't recall who you are and what season is outside. Your dream will likely interpose with the reality around you like your bed sheets and pillow and appear to you like it's part of some kind of puzzle. Once you're out you will be astonished to notice the difference between what was before you fell asleep and what is now. This will only last for a few minutes so it's nothing to be worried about.
What evidence do you have that lowering a dose will cause psychosis? Or that medication routinely causes psychosis in this manner?

Little Missy
02-07-17, 01:53 PM
Ok, right now you're in a place you don't wana be. What I would do is reduce my dose to 10mg/day right away. What will happen is, once you get a night's sleep after reducing your dose, the following 2-3 mornings you won't be able to open your eye lids so you'll likely sleep a lot. After a week you should be back on track and make the most of a 10-15mg dose.

Also, the first morning you wake up after reducing your dose to 10mg or less, you might experience a brief episode of psychosis, where you won't recall who you are and what season is outside. Your dream will likely interpose with the reality around you like your bed sheets and pillow and appear to you like it's part of some kind of puzzle. Once you're out you will be astonished to notice the difference between what was before you fell asleep and what is now. This will only last for a few minutes so it's nothing to be worried about.

Also you might do an enormous amount of sweating during that night, so make sure no one has access to your bed because they will be astonished by the soaking sheets and will likely ask you what you did. Keep hydrated.

Where in the world at you coming up with this goofy stuff?

Postulate
02-07-17, 06:50 PM
Source: http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221

"Amphetamine has a terminal elimination half life (T<sub>Ĺ</sub>) of 12–15 hours [45 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR45)] and is often taken several times over the course of many days in runs or binges [46 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR46), 47 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR47), 48 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR48), 49 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR49)]. There is clinical evidence that such binges may end in psychosis. Surprisingly, it is poorly understood [1 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR1), 50 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR50)], whether such psychosis is due to amphetamine use per se (amount over time, amount on one occasion or the length of the current binge), vulnerabilities in the user or both. It could be that psychosis occurs because of the sleep deprivation that follows amphetamine use, or because of other factors at the end of a binge. Users will often end their binge by using sedating drugs like alcohol, benzodiazepines, opiates or cannabis. This could be viewed as self-medication [51 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR51)] and may be one reason why users often develop problems with several drugs. Only a weak relationship has been reported between psychotic symptoms and the level of amphetamines in the blood of psychotic patients [51 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR51), 52 (http://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-244X-12-221#CR52)]. This could be because acute blood levels at the end of a binge are a poor representation of overall amphetamine exposure, but it could also be because individual vulnerability, rather than level of amphetamine exposure, is the critical risk factor for developing acute psychosis."

The reason I mentioned it is because OP said that after taking 15mg, he did not sleep that night, so he skipped that night. When you skip a night on amphetamines, you shift in a different dopamine plateau, in other words, you're no longer in your right mind. He needs to come down from there and no longer take 15mg because it's too much for him, since he couldn't sleep on it. Ok? 15mg is too much, he should probably only take 10mg. It doesn't help him to say you're taking 100 :)

Proper procedure is, if you take a dose of amphetamines and you can't sleep that night, you cut down on your dose the next day. If instead of cutting down, you increase it, you are binging, so what he did was a binge, so he needs to come down right away.

Stay safe and don't binge on Dexedrine.

sarahsweets
02-08-17, 05:24 AM
The evidence you are citing refers to binges and street meth mostly.

Postulate
02-08-17, 09:59 AM
The evidence you are citing refers to binges and street meth mostly.

You see, amphetamine psychosis is not born out of that research paper, it is born out of high dopamine levels. It is that paper which is trying to observe the phenomenon of amphetamine psychosis and that's the drug and sample population they chose for the study. So the very reason why that paper was written was to observe an existing phenomenon. What you can say is that the paper is not very well written because the drug chosen and the sample population does not reflect well on the majority of us. Sure (I did however like that graph it's really well made). There are stronger and more well written papers on the subject. I invite you to discover them :)

It doesn't really matter what drug it is, if it increases your dopamine by a lot and keeps you up at night and you have a certain personal vulnerability, psychosis can follow. Like I said, most of the time that's nothing to worry about. When your favorite sitcom starts on TV and the phone rings at the same time, and you hang up the phone without checking the number, that's a psychotic reaction that would not have occurred if your dopamine was lower...or if you were paranoid on higher levels of dopamine...sex is a purely psychotic reaction which, otherwise would be a disgusting fluid exchange between two living organisms. Our dopamine levels make us all psychotic to a certain extend and that's good. The problem occurs when too much of it makes us way too psychotic and that condition was given a name.

The main conditions for psychosis to occur are:

1) Abuse of dopamine agents (if you have an emotional attachement to amphetamines, for the sake of discussion, Levodopa can also cause psychosis because it increases dopamine)
2) Total insomnia (don't tell me that you never skipped 2 nights in a row, when traveling abroad, and after getting a fragment of sleep and awakening, you had no idea what just happened. You just didn't know it was called temporary psychosis. You know now.)
3) Personal vulnerability

See, any excess of either one can cause psychosis on its own. If you skip 15 nights in a row until you can no longer speak, psychosis and thought disorder will occur. If you IV 200mg of Dexedrine/day, psychosis will occur at some point. If you suffer from schizophrenia, psychosis can occur in absence of drugs or lack of sleep. But these are the 3 factors to remember.

Tell me, if the OP fulfills the first 2 factors because he took a high dose (80mg) for many days, he did not sleep for some nights and has an unknown level of personal vulnerability, would you not suspect psychosis to occur?

sarahsweets
02-08-17, 04:53 PM
It doesn't really matter what drug it is, if it increases your dopamine by a lot and keeps you up at night and you have a certain personal vulnerability, psychosis can follow. Like I said, most of the time that's nothing to worry about. When your favorite sitcom starts on TV and the phone rings at the same time, and you hang up the phone without checking the number, that's a psychotic reaction that would not have occurred if your dopamine was lower
I think you are misusing the term and definition of psychosis.

from NAMI:

The word psychosis is used to describe conditions that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. When someone becomes ill in this way it is called a psychotic episode. During a period of psychosis, a personís thoughts and perceptions are disturbed and the individual may have difficulty understanding what is real and what is not. Symptoms of psychosis include delusions (false beliefs) and hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear). Other symptoms include incoherent or nonsense speech, and behavior that is inappropriate for the situation. A person in a psychotic episode may also experience depression, anxiety, sleep problems, social withdrawal, lack of motivation, and difficulty functioning overall.


...or if you were paranoid on higher levels of dopamine...sex is a purely psychotic reaction which, otherwise would be a disgusting fluid exchange between two living organisms. Our dopamine levels make us all psychotic to a certain extend and that's good. The problem occurs when too much of it makes us way too psychotic and that condition was given a name.



:The dopamine hypothesis of schizophrenia or the dopamine hypothesis of psychosis is a model, attributing symptoms of schizophrenia (like psychoses) to a disturbed and hyperactive dopaminergic signal transduction. The model draws evidence from the observation that a large number of antipsychotics have dopamine-receptor antagonistic effects. The theory, however, does not posit dopamine overabundance as a complete explanation for schizophrenia. Rather, the overactivation of D2 receptors, specifically, is one effect of the global chemical synaptic dysregulation observed in this disorder.

I dont think you can firmly say that dopamine is the responsible party when talking about psychosis.
Yes in theory it plays a part, but to say that it is the primary cause I think isnt accurate.

3) Personal vulnerability

Are you serious?

Yes, amphetamine psychosis is real and it happens. But I dont think you can narrow it down to being vunerable or strictly dopamine. Its a theory, not a fact. Frankly speaking as someone who has had psychosis due to bipolar, and because those of us who have experienced real deal psychosis are already stigmatized- I feel like you are only scratching the surface when it comes to the causes of psychosis.

Little Missy
02-08-17, 05:47 PM
The OP only ever had one post. He must be Out To Lunch by now.

Postulate
02-08-17, 06:19 PM
Yes in theory it plays a part, but to say that it is the primary cause I think isnt accurate.

I have said no such thing, I bullet pointed 3 known causes and said that either one, on its own can cause psychosis. Not just amphetamines, if you carefully read OP's post, you will see that insomnia is also present next to the abuse of Dexedrine and his personal vulnerability is unknown. I understand this matter is more personal to you so I won't insist. However:

Personal vulnerability factors are described in great detail in 100s of papers and clearly illustrated in this graph:


https://s29.postimg.org/5b0kltmqv/12888_2012_Article_1175_Fig1_HTML.jpg


This is a 2 dimensional view of the problem, but the third dimension is Total Insomnia. Insomnia according to me is the biggest factor, but most papers say it's unsure which factor has the greatest influence.

sarahsweets
02-09-17, 05:06 AM
I cant see your chart or understand what you mean because of its size. I didnt say you 100% said dopamine is the cause, but it does sound like you are saying psychosis is as a result of dopamine and that the traditional signs of psychosis are different then they actually are. Can you elaborate more so I understand?

Postulate
02-09-17, 07:06 PM
Nobody understands this because it is too complicated. It was recently discovered in the 90s that the thalamus was the part of the brain triggering the sleep onset mechanism.

The thalamus, memory centers and nucleus accumbens are wrapped onto each-other into what looks like a nut in the center of your brain. Inevitably, sleep, memory and pleasure and fear are a different side of the same coin in a way.

All we know is that psychosis occurs when the center of the brain isn't working very well, either because it doesn't initiate sleep, like it should, because too much dopaminergic potential to produce pleasure is not converted into pleasure, or because the system is genetically bound not to balance all components in harmony.

Sickle
02-17-17, 02:56 PM
I was on 115 mg when I was 13 and could sleep right after I took it. I take 60-90 mg/day now.

CharlesH
03-26-17, 03:39 AM
OP - It's certainly possible for a person to take that amount and not have insomnia. Insomnia is a common side effect, but it's not universal. I'm not saying anything about you ... just making a generalization.

That being said, IMO the bigger issue seems to be your inconsistency. You've had ADHD your whole life, so try to take to take some extra time to figure out your optimal dosage schedule. A typical titration schedule might be something like starting with 10 mg/day (5 mg morning + 5 mg noon), and increasing by 10 mg each week until the increased dosage no longer provides additional benefits and/or it increases negative side effects. Your doctor should be able to give you with guidance on this :)

Best of luck!