View Full Version : Paranoia


midnightstar
03-07-17, 05:13 PM
Does anyone else suffer from paranoia that was unresponsive to meds? How did you learn to control it?

Fraser_0762
03-07-17, 05:18 PM
Logical reasoning. First identifying what it is that you are paranoid about, then create a list of logical reasons as to why you shouldn't be paranoid about it. Then whenever you feel you're becoming paranoid about it, you can refer to your logic list.

Little Missy
03-07-17, 05:31 PM
Does anyone else suffer from paranoia that was unresponsive to meds? How did you learn to control it?

When was the last time you were prescribed meds for paranoia and what was it that you took that you were unresponsive to?

dvdnvwls
03-07-17, 06:32 PM
Logic would work well if the paranoia itself started out as a rational logical proposition.

A lot of paranoia is irrational in nature.

Fighting irrationality by using rational arguments is often ineffective, and can even backfire. People with irrational paranoia can be positively hostile to logic and rational thought.

It's all well and good to say "Well, they shouldn't be hostile, because logic is the basis of sound thinking" (or whatever). The paranoid person doesn't care.

Fraser_0762
03-07-17, 06:43 PM
Logic would work well if the paranoia itself started out as a rational logical proposition.

A lot of paranoia is irrational in nature.

Fighting irrationality by using rational arguments is often ineffective, and can even backfire. People with irrational paranoia can be positively hostile to logic and rational thought.

It's all well and good to say "Well, they shouldn't be hostile, because logic is the basis of sound thinking" (or whatever). The paranoid person doesn't care.

You could always try posting a solution of your own, instead of just putting down any advice I try to give on here. :umm1:

dvdnvwls
03-07-17, 06:51 PM
I would, but I've never solved this. I have tried what you suggested, and got the results I mentioned. I've seen it with others as well.

I'm no expert; I just happen to have already put your advice into practice and got poor results.

I wish our (yours and mine) preferred solution worked. It's an attractive, elegant, and simple method. Too bad about its track record.

Fraser_0762
03-07-17, 07:06 PM
Everybody is different. It may not have a good track record for you or the people that you know personally, but that doesn't put it beyond trying for those who have tried other things with no success.

The thing i've noticed on here is people are quick to put down ideas offered to other members, because it didn't work for them personally.

Everybody is different.

midnightstar
03-09-17, 03:28 PM
When was the last time you were prescribed meds for paranoia and what was it that you took that you were unresponsive to?

I was on quietapine (sp) a couple of years ago but I got taken off it and wasn't put on anything else because I hadn't noticed any difference.

Mental healthcare in the UK sucks.

I was also on Citalopram first then taken off of it and put on Sertraline because citalopram does not work at all for me.

midnightstar
03-09-17, 03:32 PM
Logic would work well if the paranoia itself started out as a rational logical proposition.

A lot of paranoia is irrational in nature.

Fighting irrationality by using rational arguments is often ineffective, and can even backfire. People with irrational paranoia can be positively hostile to logic and rational thought.

It's all well and good to say "Well, they shouldn't be hostile, because logic is the basis of sound thinking" (or whatever). The paranoid person doesn't care.

In my case, it's not that I don't care. When I get paranoid I cannot see for myself that it's my paranoia being stupid.

Generally, it takes someone else saying to me "it's your paranoia" for me to be able to understand that paranoia is being a piece of crap again.

peripatetic
03-09-17, 03:38 PM
i don't know if you're talking about paranoia as used in the vernacular or as used clinically, but i have a history of delusional thinking, including persecutory delusions. when i've been medication resistant, they try another one, is my experience.

i'm familiar with seroquel/quietapine. what was your dosage? you might need to go up on it. for reference, i maxed out around 800 and i didn't like it very much. if seroquel isn't helping, there are lots of others you can try.

you might also consider doing CBT if you don't lose insight. that way you can train yourself to step back and consider whether it's logical or not. if you lose insight (i do) then it's useless when that's happening, but it could still be useful when you retain it.

i don't know what's causing your "paranoia", if it's social phobia or a psychotic disorder or something else, but if you could identify a source, then i might be able to be more useful. i don't really see anti depressants helping with this problem, but i also can't take most of them because they're contraindicated for my mental illness.

hope that helps. xx

midnightstar
03-09-17, 03:42 PM
Paranoia and psychosis are the words the professionals used before I moved areas, peri, so I assume they mean it in the clinical sense :grouphug: they played around with the dosage (can't remember what the dosages were now) but nothing seemed to help so they ended up basically going "oh nothing works, we're out of ideas now, sorry" after I had medication and went through counselling (and the cousellor was useless, he basically didn't listen, just sat there with a notebook working out what his paycheque was going to look like)

And OCD was another diagnosis they would use (that and OCPD) to decide I'm beyond their help.

Yeah mental healthcare in the UK doesn't give a crap.

peripatetic
03-09-17, 04:18 PM
Are you currently on an antipsychotic? If not, that would be my suggestion. I'm on three and they can be a ***** but I've endured treatment resistence and in the states you have to have three fail before you're considered treatment resistent. I think you should go to your provider and ask about trying another. Seroquel is one of many. If you want suggestions I'm happy to give them further, but off the top of my head, risperdal or zyprexa could knock that **** out in less than a week. But you still need CBT because it's become habitual and meds can stop some things, but not fix habits.

midnightstar
03-09-17, 04:29 PM
Are you currently on an antipsychotic? If not, that would be my suggestion. I'm on three and they can be a ***** but I've endured treatment resistence and in the states you have to have three fail before you're considered treatment resistent. I think you should go to your provider and ask about trying another. Seroquel is one of many. If you want suggestions I'm happy to give them further, but off the top of my head, risperdal or zyprexa could knock that **** out in less than a week. But you still need CBT because it's become habitual and meds can stop some things, but not fix habits.

After trying me on one that didn't work they decided that medication wouldn't work and took me off it :grouphug:

Thanks peri :grouphug:

Postulate
03-15-17, 09:03 PM
When you were paranoid or in a psychotic episode, did it ever happen for you to think other people around you are talking about you? And, when you couldn't catch what they were saying, and only understood certain phrases or words, did you relate only to degrading comments?

For example, if a member of your family was talking in the other room saying:

"this pharmacist is a true b****, tossed the medication! on the counter and just didn't care!"

And you could only clearly hear the words in bold, did you feel guilty, without value, miserable, thinking they were talking about you? That they were criticising you, and, according to the example phrase above, how you didn't care about them, and how you only took your medication, perhaps for the high and didn't care about anyone else?

Did you ever feel like that? Like they were constantly talking behind your back, degrading you, and every time you were looking for clues to see if it was like that, clues just kept coming?

midnightstar
03-16-17, 02:01 AM
It's not just family who my brain can latch onto what they're saying and twist it round, it's anyone even though I don't engage with people if my brain starts latching onto comments other people make. Even strangers.

And I don't try to deal with comments from my biological father. All I will say about him is that he is literally the most toxic person on this planet. Anything negative he will keep as a negative, anything positive he will twist round to being a negative. Even something that should be positive e.g. getting a new job, if he can find a way of twisting it to a negative he will twist it round to being a negative.

Example:

"I got a new job, working in a care home"
"You'll be crap at the job, you'll end up killing half the patients"

Another example:

"I've taken up driving"
"You're a hopeless driver, you'll never pass your test. Women can't drive anyway."

Just two examples (not word for word)

And the medication thing, when I was on medication I was very good about taking it without needing reminders (generally)

excelsior
04-11-17, 07:26 PM
Sometimes I'm hyper-vigilant. I've been told I may suffer from post-traumatic stress.

Lunacie
04-13-17, 05:08 PM
Midsy, I saw this today and thought of you ... (sorry this is so large)

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17883549_1308857729170008_6422866088766205765_n.jp g?oh=1a6582212821cf0875cf1184e7eb55f8&oe=5958FF68

Letching Gray
04-22-17, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE=Lunacie;1942556]Midsy, I saw this today and thought of you ... (sorry this is so large)

what the sign said.

holy cow. that is fitting

InvitroCanibal
05-28-17, 04:44 AM
I see paranoia as the need for instant gratification. Your mind searches for solutions in the fastest way possible and naturally it takes shortcuts. These shortcuts are logical in one sense but impractical in all others. Kind of like how the fastest way out of a hotel is technically through the window, the mind rarely takes into account the wrecklessness of its own solutions.

aur462
05-31-17, 03:40 PM
I see paranoia as the need for instant gratification. Your mind searches for solutions in the fastest way possible and naturally it takes shortcuts. These shortcuts are logical in one sense but impractical in all others. Kind of like how the fastest way out of a hotel is technically through the window, the mind rarely takes into account the wrecklessness of its own solutions.

Do you mind explaining the logical but impractical part more? The "hotel window" exit is an example of a behavior, rather than delusional thought processes. My questioning this comes from a neophyte in the paranoia department, so definitely not an indictment to your analogy. Just trying to see if I'm missing something.

I think of paranoia as delusion (oftentimes) and incorrect value judgments for incidents that are benign and/or unrelated to what the "paranoid person" may be convinced of. Hopefully that makes sense.

InvitroCanibal
06-05-17, 10:44 PM
Do you mind explaining the logical but impractical part more? The "hotel window" exit is an example of a behavior, rather than delusional thought processes. My questioning this comes from a neophyte in the paranoia department, so definitely not an indictment to your analogy. Just trying to see if I'm missing something.

I think of paranoia as delusion (oftentimes) and incorrect value judgments for incidents that are benign and/or unrelated to what the "paranoid person" may be convinced of. Hopefully that makes sense.

I was using an analogy but I can try to clarify it.

Short sided thinking. I've found most of our solutions to feelings that overwhelm us involve some degree of short sided thknking.

A real life example is when a U.S congressmen went outside during a session on global warmimg, grabbed a snowball and brought it back in to present as proof that global warming is not true.

Another example are the apocalypse survival kits they sell at Costco. You'll live 3 days longer but is that really a good thing?

Shortsided thinking usually puts correlation as causation.

The truth is, something can be true but right in one situation and wrong in all others.

A logic illogic example is "If it is raining, than the streets are wet" True
But "If the streets are wet, then it rained" Untrue.

A further example is, "All cats are mammals, but not all mammals are cats."

People under stress and in desperation, look for easy answers. In the pursuit of easy answers we make our lives worse.

Being anxious is okay, but you do have to double check your assumptions. I did mentoring and consulting. Doctors do short sided thinking as much as the rest of us.

A good way to get around short sided thinking is to talk about it. Thus therapy was born. Another way is to look at your previous solutions and ask yourself if it didn't work last time, then why would it work this time?

It's best to challenge your past choices rather than obsess and fear ypur future choices. If you did it before and it didn't work, then look for an alternative solution. Implement it, and if it fails, journal it and try a different approach. And so on.

Anyways, I hope that answered your question, but if not I could send ypu research on it. I just don't like to use research to muscle my points because I feel like that is more about intimidation then discussion.

Thanks

dvdnvwls
06-06-17, 04:25 AM
So, not exactly instant gratification, which is a pleasure thing...

Maybe more like jumping to conclusions, or being extremely impatient - demanding an answer before even understanding the question.

peripatetic
06-07-17, 02:20 AM
when i was posting above about "paranoia" i was talking about what in clinical terms would be called persecutory delusions, though they can also be delusions of thought.

what's being described in terms of short cuts of the mind or instant gratification do not in any way, and the examples, do not match my experiences AT ALL.

i think there are ways these words have found themselves in the vernacular and we are talking about very different things. having a psychotic break based on delusional thought processes often goes hand in hand with a lack of insight (anosognosia) and in my experience when it's getting "notice", so to speak, there is simply not a way to "logic-illogic" the thoughts and oft accompanying voices. these are things built up over time, not little breaches of cause and effect.

i feel like i could say more to give examples of what i'm talking about but they would not be ...pleasant, i guess. which is the other thing...there is no "gratification" really. because if you're right, you're straight ******, and if you're wrong, you're mentally ill with a highly-stigmatized group of possible labels.

i could find research to support what i'm saying here, too, but i'm speaking from personal experience. "paranoia" isn't the same is what's being described in some of these later posts. at least, my psychiatrist and others on my care team would strongly disagree.

InvitroCanibal
07-03-17, 04:27 AM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4108844/#!po=46.4706

This is the research that I was referencing.

Short Sighted not short sided (dyslexia or auto correct)


Instant gratification was used to describe the need to explain what you can't control. I feel off today, I need to explain why. A narrative can begin there in that moment, when I try to explain why. It is always so tempting to explain why things feel the way they do. When other peoples explanations don't match your own then you start to not trust those people as well.

All I was trying to say is that there are no easy explanations and we have to moderate our own need to provide them.

But to each their own.

Interpret what I wrote as needed. If it doesn't help then I understand. I have paranoid delusions as well. It comes with 3 month-3 year's long manic episodes.