View Full Version : When did you know it was ADHD and not just being a child? -GIRL


Caco3girl
03-09-17, 09:59 AM
Now I have a 7 year old, she's almost 8. She is having a lot of difficulty with reading, but not with Math. This is similar to what happened with me and my dyslexia. The school thinks it's too soon to test her because she can't read the test very well so it would be difficult to diagnose. I'm concerned about ADHD as well though since her 14 year old brother has it and I suspect their father.

The thing is...she's super quick witted, or should we call it manipulative? She has been able to spin an argument to her way of thinking since age 3. She managed to convince her father several times over that she didn't need a bath, or that she needed a drink in bed. She conned the school bus driver into dropping her off at a friends house in Kindergarten, he even kindly reminded her that she was suppose to have a note from a parent to do this and she needed one in the future. She's just SO convincing!

My ADHD son was never convincing at anything, which makes me think not ADHD. But then I see her space out now and then, and if there is an open space she starts doing cartwheels and flips...even in the supermarket *sigh*. Her brain seems to be going a million miles a minute with many random ideas. She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?

aeon
03-09-17, 11:36 AM
Now I have a 7 year old, she's almost 8. She is having a lot of difficulty with reading, but not with Math. This is similar to what happened with me and my dyslexia. The school thinks it's too soon to test her because she can't read the test very well so it would be difficult to diagnose. I'm concerned about ADHD as well though since her 14 year old brother has it and I suspect their father.

The thing is...she's super quick witted, or should we call it manipulative? She has been able to spin an argument to her way of thinking since age 3. She managed to convince her father several times over that she didn't need a bath, or that she needed a drink in bed. She conned the school bus driver into dropping her off at a friends house in Kindergarten, he even kindly reminded her that she was suppose to have a note from a parent to do this and she needed one in the future. She's just SO convincing!

My ADHD son was never convincing at anything, which makes me think not ADHD. But then I see her space out now and then, and if there is an open space she starts doing cartwheels and flips...even in the supermarket *sigh*. Her brain seems to be going a million miles a minute with many random ideas. She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?

Schedule an examination as soon as possible.

Never listen to a school about testing for the possibility of neurodevelopmental disorders.

Also, some consideration must be taken regarding interactions, boundaries, and roles, and the dynamics of power within...that she is oppositional at home, but not at school, speaks to the potential of something dysfunctional at home.


Cheers,
Ian

ajaxblu
03-09-17, 01:51 PM
She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?

Although my daughter does many other things not listed here, she also does the above. I have known since she was a toddler that something is off, just couldn't get the school to listen. I truly believe that my daughter's multiple issues simultaneously play off of each other and conceal each other. This creates complicated symptoms and makes it difficult for the school officials, who are NOT experts, to believe she has ADHD or any of her other disorders.

Your daughter may be the same. I'd take her to see someone outside the school first if you can afford it. If they diagnose, then go into the school armed with that info.

sarahsweets
03-10-17, 06:19 AM
Now I have a 7 year old, she's almost 8. She is having a lot of difficulty with reading, but not with Math. This is similar to what happened with me and my dyslexia. The school thinks it's too soon to test her because she can't read the test very well so it would be difficult to diagnose. I'm concerned about ADHD as well though since her 14 year old brother has it and I suspect their father.
When it comes to knowing your kid, you know her better than the school and you are already dealing with an older child-albeit different- with adhd in school. Of course the school doesnt want to evaluate her- why spend the money today when they can push it off to another year?


[The thing is...she's super quick witted, or should we call it manipulative? She has been able to spin an argument to her way of thinking since age 3. She managed to convince her father several times over that she didn't need a bath, or that she needed a drink in bed. She conned the school bus driver into dropping her off at a friends house in Kindergarten, he even kindly reminded her that she was suppose to have a note from a parent to do this and she needed one in the future. She's just SO convincing!

I have three kids with adhd, 2 of them are girls and both very different than their brother. My oldest daughter Becca is 17 now, and very quick witted and always has been. She was the kid who would make a mess "cooking" pancakes when I said no pancakes because " I made them for you mom!" She was the kid who opened every arts and crafts gift she got for christmas and had glitter, glue, googly eyes, yarn, markers and paints everywhere and on everything. She was the kid who tried to help me do the dishes and over flowed the dishwasher because she used the wrong detergent.

She is the only who kept her lunch money everyday for a few weeks and then came home with something new she bought "with her own" money.
She can charm the pants off people. She was diagnosed in first grade at my INSISTANCE. Because the school saw this polite cute girl and even though she was busy chatting and in other people's business, she was so precocious that people had a hard time seeing the adhd.
My youngest is 13 now. She was diagnosed in kindergarten. She hated things out of order, but her order was her own, no one could understand her order. She was prone to emotional meltdowns and tears, very methodical with the way she played, very particular with how she wanted to play and how others played with her. She was an is visually disorganized, and losses things all the time-even when they are right next to her bed, on the floor. She will look for the match to the shoes she wants and say she cant find them, even though they are right there in front of her.
She has anxiety and worries a lot. She puts unrealistic demands on herself and feels like she doesnt measure up some of the time.

There is a sticky in this section that tells the story of my son- who is 21 now but the girls were so different then he was, if you read it you will see what I mean.
Its only through my experience with my son, that I was able to insist and advocate for my daughters. Everything had to be formally requested in the official sense and I had to check up on the school often. Once they realized they were dealing with a veteran they came around. My son was diagnosed at age 3.5 and began meds at 4. The youngest you can be diagnosed is age 4 and symptoms must be present before age 12 regardless of whether you are diagnosed then or not.

Sorry for the novel. You know your son inside and out Cacogirl and Id bet you also know your daughter just as well, dont back down!
My ADHD son was never convincing at anything, which makes me think not ADHD. But then I see her space out now and then, and if there is an open space she starts doing cartwheels and flips...even in the supermarket *sigh*. Her brain seems to be going a million miles a minute with many random ideas. She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?[/QUOTE]

Caco3girl
03-10-17, 11:50 AM
When it comes to knowing your kid, you know her better than the school and you are already dealing with an older child-albeit different- with adhd in school. Of course the school doesnt want to evaluate her- why spend the money today when they can push it off to another year?



I have three kids with adhd, 2 of them are girls and both very different than their brother. My oldest daughter Becca is 17 now, and very quick witted and always has been. She was the kid who would make a mess "cooking" pancakes when I said no pancakes because " I made them for you mom!" She was the kid who opened every arts and crafts gift she got for christmas and had glitter, glue, googly eyes, yarn, markers and paints everywhere and on everything. She was the kid who tried to help me do the dishes and over flowed the dishwasher because she used the wrong detergent.

She is the only who kept her lunch money everyday for a few weeks and then came home with something new she bought "with her own" money.
She can charm the pants off people. She was diagnosed in first grade at my INSISTANCE. Because the school saw this polite cute girl and even though she was busy chatting and in other people's business, she was so precocious that people had a hard time seeing the adhd.
My youngest is 13 now. She was diagnosed in kindergarten. She hated things out of order, but her order was her own, no one could understand her order. She was prone to emotional meltdowns and tears, very methodical with the way she played, very particular with how she wanted to play and how others played with her. She was an is visually disorganized, and losses things all the time-even when they are right next to her bed, on the floor. She will look for the match to the shoes she wants and say she cant find them, even though they are right there in front of her.
She has anxiety and worries a lot. She puts unrealistic demands on herself and feels like she doesnt measure up some of the time.

There is a sticky in this section that tells the story of my son- who is 21 now but the girls were so different then he was, if you read it you will see what I mean.
Its only through my experience with my son, that I was able to insist and advocate for my daughters. Everything had to be formally requested in the official sense and I had to check up on the school often. Once they realized they were dealing with a veteran they came around. My son was diagnosed at age 3.5 and began meds at 4. The youngest you can be diagnosed is age 4 and symptoms must be present before age 12 regardless of whether you are diagnosed then or not.

Sorry for the novel. You know your son inside and out Cacogirl and Id bet you also know your daughter just as well, dont back down!
My ADHD son was never convincing at anything, which makes me think not ADHD. But then I see her space out now and then, and if there is an open space she starts doing cartwheels and flips...even in the supermarket *sigh*. Her brain seems to be going a million miles a minute with many random ideas. She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?[/quote]
Wow, the underlined parts ARE my daughter. I can so see her saving her lunch money, buying something and calling it her money. "Well you gave it to me, so then it was mine, so it was MY money." is likely what I would hear.

She has an interesting take on things and her way of thinking does make sense but WOW no idea how she got there. She also makes up words that make sense but are just not the right words. Words like "Thumbtoe" and "Hanitizer"...you understand what she meant but I'm not certain how she comes up with these things.

I've seen and heard about the tests they gave my son in 8th grade. I've also seen my daughter try to read...she wouldn't be able to take those kinds of tests. That is what the Tier III teacher is saying and I have to agree that my daughter wouldn't be able to understand the questions and the test would be skewed. Then rather than taking the tried and true tests she would be taking tests without reading, and without words. Since she has such a quick wit verbally I think those test results would be skewed.

Lunacie
03-10-17, 12:47 PM
My granddaughter was five, I don't remember all the things that caught my
attention because that was 14 years ago. I do remember comparing her to the
other kids at library story hour, they stayed seated when being read to, she
stood up and asked questions and shared experiences, interrupting the story.

I mentioned these to an online friend who has a couple of girls with ADHD and
she said I should look into it further. When I did ... OMG! ... it wasn't just my
granddaughter I was reading about, it was also me. Yep, I was a gramma and
had never been diagnosed with anything except depression as far as my mental
health goes.

For the next 5 years I tried to convince my daughter to get my granddaughter
tested. But we were terribly focused on the younger granddaughter who ended
up with a diagnosis of autism and anxiety.

I would ask the teacher at every parent meeting if they were seeing any of
the symptoms. Nope. She was a pleasant child, tried to please her teachers,
was happy to help other students ... etc. This is typical of girls with ADHD as
they tend to get along better and relate better to adults or very young children.

Then came the preparation for the switch to middle school in 5th grade ...
having more than one teacher during the day and moving to different class-
rooms, more to keep track of, expectations of being able to organize and be
responsible.

Finally a teacher realized she wasn't handing in homework ... she had done
the homework but couldn't remember to turn it in or couldn't find it in her
mess of a backpack. The teacher saw that I was having to rush her back to
school at least 3 times a week after the bus dropped her off because she had
forgotten to bring the assignment or the books she would need.

Finally at age 10, nearly 11, she got diagnosed and started taking Concerta.
The next year was great, but then the Concerta wasn't lasting through the
whole school day, much less homework time. I'd been reading this forum
long enough to suggest adding a Ritalin booster, but the doc wanted to switch
to Vyvanse which was a total nightmare for my poor kiddo.

From there to trying Strattera and Wellbutrin and finally a low dose of Adderall.
Nothing worked as well as the Concerta had. Eventually she stopped taking
the Adderall and her school career went down the toilet. By junior year she
was failing half her subjects and was bullied every day. She finally convinced
her mother and the school staff to let her e-school and she was back to being
able to show her considerable smarts and graduate. So proud of her. :D

By high school she was bringing home every single book every single day to
avoid forgetting which ones she would need for homework. Killed her back,
poor kiddo. I don't know what else I could have done as a non-custodial co-
parent to get her diagnosed sooner and get her more help at school ... but it's
a shame I wasn't able to do that.

Sorry this was so long ... I'm terrible at being able to condense my thoughts.

Caco3girl
03-10-17, 12:54 PM
My granddaughter was five, I don't remember all the things that caught my
attention because that was 14 years ago. I do remember comparing her to the
other kids at library story hour, they stayed seated when being read to, she
stood up and asked questions and shared experiences, interrupting the story.

I mentioned these to an online friend who has a couple of girls with ADHD and
she said I should look into it further. When I did ... OMG! ... it wasn't just my
granddaughter I was reading about, it was also me. Yep, I was a gramma and
had never been diagnosed with anything except depression as far as my mental
health goes.

For the next 5 years I tried to convince my daughter to get my granddaughter
tested. But we were terribly focused on the younger granddaughter who ended
up with a diagnosis of autism and anxiety.

I would ask the teacher at every parent meeting if they were seeing any of
the symptoms. Nope. She was a pleasant child, tried to please her teachers,
was happy to help other students ... etc. This is typical of girls with ADHD as
they tend to get along better and relate better to adults or very young children.

Then came the preparation for the switch to middle school in 5th grade ...
having more than one teacher during the day and moving to different class-
rooms, more to keep track of, expectations of being able to organize and be
responsible.

Finally a teacher realized she wasn't handing in homework ... she had done
the homework but couldn't remember to turn it in or couldn't find it in her
mess of a backpack. The teacher saw that I was having to rush her back to
school at least 3 times a week after the bus dropped her off because she had
forgotten to bring the assignment or the books she would need.

Finally at age 10, nearly 11, she got diagnosed and started taking Concerta.
The next year was great, but then the Concerta wasn't lasting through the
whole school day, much less homework time. I'd been reading this forum
long enough to suggest adding a Ritalin booster, but the doc wanted to switch
to Vyvanse which was a total nightmare for my poor kiddo.

From there to trying Strattera and Wellbutrin and finally a low dose of Adderall.
Nothing worked as well as the Concerta had. Eventually she stopped taking
the Adderall and her school career went down the toilet. By junior year she
was failing half her subjects and was bullied every day. She finally convinced
her mother and the school staff to let her e-school and she was back to being
able to show her considerable smarts and graduate. So proud of her. :D

By high school she was bringing home every single book every single day to
avoid forgetting which ones she would need for homework. Killed her back,
poor kiddo. I don't know what else I could have done as a non-custodial co-
parent to get her diagnosed sooner and get her more help at school ... but it's
a shame I wasn't able to do that.

Sorry this was so long ... I'm terrible at being able to condense my thoughts.

YUP, that's my girl! Thanks for posting.

dvdnvwls
03-10-17, 03:00 PM
When do you know?

"Just being a kid" always makes sense, somehow. Disorders such as ADHD are discovered by the fact that they don't make sense, that the facts don't add up.

Undiscovered ADHD can come from simple lack of knowledge, or from rationalizing away the parts that aren't making sense.


That sounds simple, but in real life it can be very hard to sort it all out. Am I rationalizing? Am I lacking knowledge? How should I know?? But regardless, that is basically how it's done.

The shortcut is to already know the expected characteristics of ADHD or other disorder and be ready to spot them - but that only works for the disorders any one person is familiar with.

Caco3girl
03-10-17, 03:44 PM
When do you know?

"Just being a kid" always makes sense, somehow. Disorders such as ADHD are discovered by the fact that they don't make sense, that the facts don't add up.

Undiscovered ADHD can come from simple lack of knowledge, or from rationalizing away the parts that aren't making sense.


That sounds simple, but in real life it can be very hard to sort it all out. Am I rationalizing? Am I lacking knowledge? How should I know?? But regardless, that is basically how it's done.

The shortcut is to already know the expected characteristics of ADHD or other disorder and be ready to spot them - but that only works for the disorders any one person is familiar with.

That's why I posted the question. I am ALL too familiar with how my son presented his ADHD but it occurred to me that maybe girls present differently than boys.

dvdnvwls
03-10-17, 03:57 PM
In fact, boys present differently from other boys. There's a lot of variability, and the boy/girl divide isn't always that important - though sometimes it is.

Lunacie
03-10-17, 04:02 PM
In fact, boys present differently from other boys. There's a lot of variability, and the boy/girl divide isn't always that important - though sometimes it is.

This ^ is why I keep saying that ADHD is not over-diagnosed, it's under-diagnosed.

Anyone who doesn't fit those hyperactive symptoms is more likely to be over-
looked or misdiagnosed.

Little Missy
03-10-17, 04:04 PM
Probably not even relevant but my mum would send me upstairs to grab something for her and she'd say 10 or 15 minutes later she'd be yelling, "Quit dancing in front of the mirror already and just get it!"

And that was exactly what I was doing. In some time warp.

dvdnvwls
03-10-17, 04:20 PM
If I had been hyperactive as a child, I would have been noticed. Treated for ADHD - who knows? But certainly noticed. :) Would that have been good in my situation? Hard to tell.

maple17
03-11-17, 01:17 AM
Now I have a 7 year old, she's almost 8. She is having a lot of difficulty with reading, but not with Math. This is similar to what happened with me and my dyslexia. The school thinks it's too soon to test her because she can't read the test very well so it would be difficult to diagnose. I'm concerned about ADHD as well though since her 14 year old brother has it and I suspect their father.

The thing is...she's super quick witted, or should we call it manipulative? She has been able to spin an argument to her way of thinking since age 3. She managed to convince her father several times over that she didn't need a bath, or that she needed a drink in bed. She conned the school bus driver into dropping her off at a friends house in Kindergarten, he even kindly reminded her that she was suppose to have a note from a parent to do this and she needed one in the future. She's just SO convincing!

My ADHD son was never convincing at anything, which makes me think not ADHD. But then I see her space out now and then, and if there is an open space she starts doing cartwheels and flips...even in the supermarket *sigh*. Her brain seems to be going a million miles a minute with many random ideas. She does what she calls experiments with lotions and bath gel...etc. Nail polish all over the place, tears her room up, can't keep drawers closed, won't allow clothes to stay on hangers, refuses to dress for cold weather insisting on a sun dress...she's very defiant, she makes her stands often...but at school she is an angel.

Should I take her to see someone or just let this ride itself out?

Oh look, you've described my daughter, lol. :rolleyes: We said from the beginning that our kid should have been a lawyer, just because she loved to argue a point and every. single. thing. turned into a negotiation with her. This was from the time she started school. Not ODD, never overly combative or in a violent way, but we knew that while simple requests would be no problem for her brother, with her, it would be a 10 minute debate on why she had to do something, with her compelling arguments for why she should be excused from the task.

There were signs way, way back from the beginning that something was a little off, but none of us saw it for what it was. Her paediatrician has diagnosed ADHD and ASD traits, which we haven't pursued just yet. She learned to read by age 3 by sight memorising every word. When she got into prep (Australian kindergarten) her classmates would lug books to her to read to them. By grade 1, she was reading at a grade 6 level. But her comprehension lagged way behind, even though she could decode like no one's business. A teacher with 30 years experience said she'd never seen any student like her.

Her grade 1 teacher noted she was thrived on seeking attention and being in the spotlight, but couldn't seem to make friends or keep them for long. I remember my daughter spending most of grade 2 in the library because she had no one to play with. But she seemed to do okay academically for a while, As and Bs, until the wheels started to come off in grade 5.

Similar with the experiments, although also craft sessions here, where she sees something on youtube and just has to replicate it. The meds have helped stop this from occurring at 8pm on school nights. She also has always had a disaster for a room, gets overwhelmed with tidying it, and again, medication has helped so that she can actually tidy it once in a while. But the clothes are always on the floor, no matter what. We also had the dress for the weather arguments over the years and eventually just left her to it (often surreptiously packing a coat into the trunk) for after she's blue with the cold and has acknowledged that perhaps just a t-shirt in winter wasn't the best choice after all and she should have listened, sorry.

No one at my daughter's school picked up that she might have ADHD. And we certainly didn't. We knew she was having problems with school, was over emotional, disorganised, and had a short fuse (and was frustrated so easily), but we didn't know THAT'S what it was. We just thought our kid was "quirky," emotional, sensitive, and difficult. We didn't know it could be anything else. Heck, we even have two special ed aides and a social worker in the extended family and they never saw anything before we moved overseas, even though one remarked one time after taking her out at age 4, "She was so demanding...she just kept on about something and wouldn't let it go."

Given that your son has it, I would consider it carefully that she might have it as well. If that is the case, you'd be doing her a favour to get diagnosed and treatment earlier rather than later. I'm thinking of everything my daughter had to put up with because she was diagnosed so late: that her teachers thought she was lazy and careless with her work. That we as her parents were rebuked her all those times she lost it out in public.

Oh and as for the school vs home and behaviour. Back then, we had a case of angel at school (although introverted, anxious, and no friends) and any behavioural stuff happened at home. Then it got to grade 5 and 6, and it started to show up at school...crying when overwhelmed in class, anxiety episodes. That split didn't hold up the same any longer and her teacher and I returned the screening forms to the paediatrician with almost the exact same answers marked.

Good luck!

sarahsweets
03-11-17, 07:45 AM
There are ways of evaluating a child for adhd that do not involve written tests that the child can understand. And there are plenty of parameters in place so that a bright or precocious child isnt misdiagnosed or underdiagnosed because they excel in certain areas. Like I said all my kids had a diagnosis by 1st grade, and they all were unusually above average in areas- especially verbal/language IQ. I am going to dig out an old IEP later and see if any of those tests or whatever had names or something and see if I can share it,

Lunamoth
03-12-17, 03:42 PM
I am finally having my 6 year old daughter assessed as she is no longer coping with school. She is a high-achieving model student and her teacher thinks I'm bats**t crazy to think she has ADHD.

A book I found massively helpful was "Understanding Girls with ADHD" by Nadeau, Littman, & Quinn. I highly recommend it.

Caco3girl
03-13-17, 03:11 PM
Okay I'm calling the guidance counselor to see if the school has the non-reading tests to help determine ADHD and or dyslexia.

Got another report from her reading teacher that my daughter isn't being ODD or even rude but they can't get her to finish ANY of her work. She keeps going to the bathroom, or telling the teacher something random that she just HAD to say...etc. Next year is when they start real grades I think rather than S, N, U's....might be time to get this addressed.

dvdnvwls
03-13-17, 03:16 PM
When she will do anything to avoid it, it's likely that she's afraid.

Afraid of some mean person, or afraid to disappoint some nice person, or afraid of looking bad in front of everyone... or something.

mamabanana
05-09-17, 02:41 PM
I think that every parent feels on some level when something is off. And do not listen to anybody. My son's symptoms started over a year ago and everybody kept telling me he is just being a boy. That's what boys do. My son can't have a meal, or do his homework (school and piano), or sport class without interrupting himself about 15 times in half hour. He is very bright and athletic, sometimes he has a good moment and concentrates (that's when he wins sport competitions and get A+ for tests), but most of the time he just can't. I finally took him for evaluation to a children psychology center at the NYU. I don't think he had to do some reading/writing tests.
What I'm trying to say, if you feel that something is off, evaluate your girl.

Caco3girl
05-11-17, 11:51 AM
I think that every parent feels on some level when something is off. And do not listen to anybody. My son's symptoms started over a year ago and everybody kept telling me he is just being a boy. That's what boys do. My son can't have a meal, or do his homework (school and piano), or sport class without interrupting himself about 15 times in half hour. He is very bright and athletic, sometimes he has a good moment and concentrates (that's when he wins sport competitions and get A+ for tests), but most of the time he just can't. I finally took him for evaluation to a children psychology center at the NYU. I don't think he had to do some reading/writing tests.
What I'm trying to say, if you feel that something is off, evaluate your girl.

Thanks for posting, I did actually have her evaluated. I started a whole new thread called "Diagnosed in under 5 minutes", because yeah that's how quick the doctor recognized the ADHD issue. Going back today actually for the one month follow up...there have been some major improvements but some not so great things as well. Hopefully the doctor can sort them out.