View Full Version : Do you consider your external environment as part of your body?


mildadhd
03-12-17, 06:02 PM
Do you consider your external environment as part of your body?

See poll.






m

dvdnvwls
03-12-17, 06:09 PM
Do you mean, do I sometimes prefer to treat it as if it is?

Or do you mean, do I really believe it is?

If you mean real belief, I don't see how that could make sense, except as part of a hallucination or other manifestation of a disorder. Are you thinking along those lines - that maybe this is a widespread disorder?

Or... Hmmm... Perhaps a Buddhist-style "all divisions are illusory, the universe is one" type of idea?

mildadhd
03-12-17, 06:12 PM
My internal environment could not survive without my external environment.

It is a fascinating relationship.



m

dvdnvwls
03-12-17, 06:19 PM
My internal body could not survive without my external environment.

It is a fascinating relationship.
Yes, absolutely.

Unless you do go the Buddhist-style route and say something like "there is no relationship to be fascinated by, because there is no internal and no external". :)

mildadhd
03-12-17, 06:39 PM
Yes, absolutely.

Unless you do go the Buddhist-style route and say something like "there is no relationship to be fascinated by, because there is no internal and no external". :)



I wonder how someone could say something without an internal/external environment?



m

dvdnvwls
03-12-17, 06:48 PM
I wonder how someone could say something without an internal/external environment?

The same way as with one. :)

mildadhd
03-12-17, 07:20 PM
I wonder about parts of ADHD in regards to the internal environment and parts of ADHD in regards to the external environment?




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aeon
03-12-17, 07:24 PM
Inasmuch as I consider having a body, in baseline consciousness, no I do not consider my external environment to be part of it.

Experience with various entheogens has told me otherwise, for what that is worth.



Cheers,
Ian

mildadhd
03-12-17, 07:48 PM
Humans cannot develop internal self-regulation without external maternal regulation.




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mildadhd
03-12-17, 08:18 PM
I do think life in the external environment would exist without internal human consciousness.

But I do not think internal human consciousness would exist without an external environment.


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sarahsweets
03-13-17, 03:51 AM
I guess I dont understand what the ideas behind external and internal environment and how it relates to me.

Unmanagable
03-13-17, 10:45 AM
I hope this isn't totally off the mark you're aiming for. If so, I apologize. I don't consider my external environment as being an actual physical part of my body, most days (when I'm not lying on the ground soaking up the sun, moon, and stars).

But I do now realize more deeply, and much more clearly than ever before (as it relates to self), just how significantly the external environment directly affects my overall well-being, hence the drastic and purposeful changes I've made to try to live more healthily and function more comfortably within that knowledge.

After experimenting with information I've gained within the last several years, mostly through trying all the things that didn't work, I've learned my environment has been quite instrumental in much of my dis-ease through the years.

What we're surrounded by, what we ingest, what we put on and around our bodies that gets absorbed into our largest organ, how we're raised, what we live through, where we spend our energies (everything is energy), what we allow ourselves to think repeatedly, etc., etc., it all matters more than I ever fully realized. I was too busy trying to meet all of those external expectations to pay attention to those little details.

There are so many things I never thought twice about, or even thoroughly understood the basics of (although I passed many classes and was told I did), until I was prompted to start seeking answers behind all the curtains. That was in addition to the typical scripts I'd been receiving from all the typical spaces suggested to be the most helpful for various issues through the years that only served to complicate things more than help.

So I guess my answer is both yes and no, in a sense. If I'm surrounded by "junk", as in things that are not healthily beneficial to a living being, be it momentarily or over a long period of time, and have no choice but to put junk in, since that's all that's made available and accessible for whatever reasons, be it via food, drink, thought, hygiene products, medications, cleaning supplies, reading material, television, movies, etc., all I will likely ever get back out is "junk", as typically defined by the same society/family/etc. trying to get me to meet their expectations. Quite the catch 22 going on there.

Having endless societal and familial standards in place that are expecting only the highest quality stuff to be coming out, regardless of the external fuel and direction you're given to work with, seems to create the scenes that dictate what's considered good enough and "normal" enough. Not a level playing field by any means.

Reaching a healthy and sustainable functioning point amidst/in spite of a lifetime of a whole lot of external junk being the fuel for the foundation that your existence was built upon is quite the challenge, I've found.

Pilgrim
03-13-17, 11:52 AM
Maybe your immediate environment is.

mildadhd
03-20-17, 02:04 AM
What would my body be, without earth or atmosphere? (oxygen, etc)

What would earth's atmosphere be, without space's atmosphere?

In other words, if there was no space's atmosphere, there would be no earth's atmosphere.

If there was no earth's atmosphere (oxygen, etc), there would be no Me, for my body to be.

LOL


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mildadhd
03-22-17, 02:18 PM
Maybe I am an alien?



a

Little Missy
03-22-17, 02:29 PM
Maybe I am an alien?



a

No way, aliens are rude.

mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:15 AM
No way, aliens are rude.

Your right!

Aliens are rude.


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mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:17 AM
If we did not have heat from the sun, my body would not exist.

Am I rude?




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mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:18 AM
If our galaxy did not have a black hole in the center, (I just learned our solar system orbits the black hole in the center of milky way galaxy), my body would not exist.





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mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:34 AM
Do the galaxies black holes orbit the cosmos?

Do the cosmos orbit the universe?

Is there more than one universe?





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mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:43 AM
Forgive me for being rude.

But really, how could my body exist without earths atmosphere, without the sun's solar system, without the galaxies black holes, without the cosmos, without at least one universe?




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namazu
04-01-17, 02:49 AM
It's, like, all connected, man. :cool:

Fuzzy12
04-01-17, 02:51 AM
Requiring something to exist is not the same as being it unless you want to view everything as one.

mildadhd
04-01-17, 03:06 AM
It's, like, all connected, man. :cool:

Requiring something to exist is not the same as being it unless you want to view everything as one.

I do not see it as a matter of what I want.

My body would not exist without our galaxy.

If there was no galaxy, there would be no sun, there would be no earth atmosphere, there would be no Me.

What other way is there of looking at it?



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Fuzzy12
04-01-17, 03:34 AM
YI do not see it as a matter of what I want.

My body would not exist without our galaxy.

If there was no galaxy, there would be no sun, there would be no earth atmosphere, there would be no Me.

What other way is there of looking at it?



m

Codependent, interconnected but distinct objects.

You can mesh everything into one big object but yes, it is a matter of perspective.

mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:40 PM
Y

Codependent, interconnected but distinct objects.

You can mesh everything into one big object but yes, it is a matter of perspective.



There are some specific things, like water and the sun, that can exist without me, but I cannot exist without.

I find that fascinating.


m

mildadhd
04-01-17, 02:58 PM
Fuzzy12

You make a good point.

Not everything in the external environment is essential for my body to exist.

But, there are some specific things, like water and the sun, that can exist without me, but I cannot exist without.


m

Fuzzy12
04-01-17, 03:06 PM
It's an interesting question I guess. What are the boundaries of yourself closely related to what is your self.

I could see why you consider your external environment as a part of yourself as it interacts and impacts you and in some cases is essential. However why do you use as boundary wgat is essential? Your vermiform appendix or the hair on your body are not essential but I suppose you consider them to.be a part of you.

mildadhd
04-01-17, 04:55 PM
It's an interesting question I guess. What are the boundaries of yourself closely related to what is your self.

I could see why you consider your external environment as a part of yourself as it interacts and impacts you and in some cases is essential. However why do you use as boundary wgat is essential? Your vermiform appendix or the hair on your body are not essential but I suppose you consider them to.be a part of you.

I consider internal and external environment to be parts of me.

I wonder if, what are the most essential parts and what are least essential parts, depends on objective survival and subjective survival?

Objective survival being essential external parts that make existence of subjective survival possible?



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Lunacie
04-01-17, 09:40 PM
An infant depends on it's mother (or other caretaker) but that does not make
them the same person.

Some environments are better for our health, physical, emotional and mental
than other environments. But since the environment doesn't depend on us, I
don't feel we are part of each other. Part of something cosmic together, sure.

mildadhd
04-01-17, 10:44 PM
An infant depends on it's mother (or other caretaker) but that does not make
them the same person.

Some environments are better for our health, physical, emotional and mental
than other environments. But since the environment doesn't depend on us, I
don't feel we are part of each other. Part of something cosmic together, sure.

I do not think the sun depends on me?

But I think I depend on the sun.

I do think the earth's atmosphere depends partially on us.





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Fuzzy12
04-01-17, 11:00 PM
I consider internal and external environment to be parts of me.

I wonder if, what are the most essential parts and what are least essential parts, depends on objective survival and subjective survival?

Objective survival being essential external parts that make existence of subjective survival possible?



m

What are objective and subjective survival?

Fuzzy12
04-01-17, 11:07 PM
I do not think the sun depends on me?

But I think I depend on the sun.

I do think the earth's atmosphere depends partially on us.





m
The earth's atmosphere doesn't depend on us in the sense that it needs us though it is influenced and impacted by us and our actions.

mildadhd
04-02-17, 06:08 PM
The earth's atmosphere doesn't depend on us in the sense that it needs us though it is influenced and impacted by us and our actions.

Thanks

I agree, the existence of our earth's atmosphere does not depend on us. (example of objective survival?)

I should have wrote, "The earth's atmosphere is influenced and impacted by our actions." (example of subjective survival?)



m

dormammau2008
04-03-17, 10:02 PM
:owell true it dose not as it was here befor us.....but what we do now to it is on us so we can cause problem s that way.....:grouphug:

mildadhd
04-03-17, 10:58 PM
:owell true it dose not as it was here befor us.....but what we do now to it is on us so we can cause problem s that way.....:grouphug:

Thanks Your post and signature reminds me of,

"M can be equal to R, if and only if, M is not equal to M"(-Bertrand Russell)




m

Fuzzy12
04-04-17, 01:39 AM
Thanks Your post and signature reminds me of,

"M can be equal to R, if and only if, M is not equal to M"(-Bertrand Russell)




m

This is true only if R is not M .... ;)

mildadhd
04-04-17, 04:22 PM
This is true only if R is not M .... ;)

Neither, R or M can exist alone.



M

dormammau2008
04-06-17, 12:34 AM
sounds very intresting lol nice to see you injoyed what I said its allways nice to meet like minded people

mildadhd
04-08-17, 01:51 PM
sounds very intresting lol nice to see you injoyed what I said its allways nice to meet like minded people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlNVEKrMoOw

mctavish23
04-08-17, 02:30 PM
I'd have significantly less "mysterious" bruises :scratch:

U R Welcome :cool:

aur462
04-11-17, 02:37 AM
My body could not exist without an environment, and my environment is pivotal, generally, but in terms of the "old fashioned" notion of body in medical books - the physical stuff, inherently my body and environment are mutually exclusive. I would rather "my environment" be shot than "my head"

I've read and believe I fully understand the contradictory arguments presented, but I welcome further discourse in case I'm missing something.

RubberSoul
04-11-17, 08:47 AM
Going by all the clothes and miscellaneous crap forever strewn about me. I'd have to say yes.

mildadhd
04-12-17, 05:56 PM
My body could not exist without an environment, and my environment is pivotal, generally, but in terms of the "old fashioned" notion of body in medical books - the physical stuff, inherently my body and environment are mutually exclusive. I would rather "my environment" be shot than "my head"

I've read and believe I fully understand the contradictory arguments presented, but I welcome further discourse in case I'm missing something.

Interesting perspective.

If Phineas Gage's head injury was to the periaqueductal gray, he would not have survived.

But his head injury was to the higher frontal lobe and he survived.


Long known as the "American Crowbar Case"*—*once termed "the case which more than all others is calculated to excite our wonder, impair the value of prognosis, and even to subvert our physiological doctrines" [2]*—*Phineas Gage influenced nineteenth-century discussion about the mind and brain, particularly debate on cerebral localization,​​[M]:ch7-9[B] and was perhaps the first case to suggest the brain's role in determining personality, and that damage to specific parts of the brain might induce specific personality changes.​​[M]:1,378[M3]:C​​[3]:1347​​[4]:56​​[K2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage



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mildadhd
04-12-17, 06:23 PM
It is not environment or head.

It is environment and head.

Physical Example:

It is not Oxygen in the environment or oxygen in the head.

It is Oxygen in the environment and head.



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mildadhd
04-12-17, 06:33 PM
Oxygen, etc, can exist without the ability to shoot.

But the ability to shoot cannot exist without Oxygen, etc.



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mildadhd
04-12-17, 07:04 PM
Could a person experience PTSD without an environment?

Could a person experience getting shot without an environment?



m

mildadhd
04-12-17, 07:08 PM
Everything seems to have physical components?

There does not seem to be anything that exists alone?



m

Greyhound1
04-12-17, 07:47 PM
Everything seems to have physical components?

There does not seem to be anything that exists alone?



m

The external environment and/or Mother Nature seems to meet the criteria for existing alone don't they?

Lunacie
04-12-17, 08:31 PM
Could a person experience PTSD without an environment?

Could a person experience getting shot without an environment?



m

Yes, we experience the environment. Or it's effect on us.

That's not the same as being part of our body. IMO.

Greyhound1
04-12-17, 08:37 PM
I said no on the poll because I would consider my body to mainly be a part of the external environment.

Lunacie
04-12-17, 09:25 PM
I said no on the poll because I would consider my body to mainly be a part of the external environment.

Interesting viewpoint. :)

mildadhd
04-12-17, 11:27 PM
I said no on the poll because I would consider my body to mainly be a part of the external environment.

Thanks

Although I think your still saying ,yes, I consider the external environment is part of my body.

I agree. I think the way you are saying it, is even a more accurate, there are external environmental parts of our bodies that evolved first.

m

mildadhd
04-13-17, 12:48 AM
The external environment and/or Mother Nature seems to meet the criteria for existing alone don't they?

External environment and/or Mother Nature consist of many parts.

I myself can't think of any thing that works alone, without some type of relationship with something else?



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mildadhd
04-13-17, 01:31 AM
My body could not exist without an environment, and my environment is pivotal, generally, but in terms of the "old fashioned" notion of body in medical books - the physical stuff, inherently my body and environment are mutually exclusive. I would rather "my environment" be shot than "my head"

I've read and believe I fully understand the contradictory arguments presented, but I welcome further discourse in case I'm missing something.

I do not think they are mutually exclusive.

My external environment and my internal body's environment would have to exist to be shot.

But reading your post, I cannot help but think I am missing things.

Order of evolution verse individual self experiences? (I am not sure?)

Environmental evolution survival?

Species evolution survival?

Individual evolution survival?

I am not sure.....?

Interesting discussions something about the individual self to think about, thanks.

m

mildadhd
04-13-17, 01:50 AM
I am sure our bodies required oxygen to survive before it was called a medicine.

The use of oxygen in medicine become common around 1917.[8][9] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most effective and safe medicines needed in a health system.[10] The cost of home oxygen is about 150 USD a month in Brazil and 400 USD a month in the United States.[3] Home oxygen can be provided either by oxygen tanks or an oxygen concentrator.[1] Oxygen is believed to be the most common treatment given in hospitals in the developed world.[11][1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_therapy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM_CgtFORzw

aur462
04-14-17, 03:35 PM
I think your question can be answered either way depending on how you word the question. If you answer it from an anatomical perspective, a body has parts that have been formally defined by science - like arms, etc. Conversely, the "stuff" that makes up a body includes atoms acquired from the environment and vice-versa, among other symbiotic relationships (something like that - someone less ignorant on life science might explain it differently/better).

You mentioned Phineas Gage; he's a good argument against having "free will", another fun philosophical topic =>)

mildadhd
04-15-17, 08:34 PM
You mentioned Phineas Gage; he's a good argument against having "free will", another fun philosophical topic =>)


That sounds like so much fun!

(Which is really interesting, because technically I did not hear with my ears any sounds from you, when I read your post.)

I have never decided to discuss free will before.

I will start another more specific thread discussion, so I do not derail this thread discussion.



m