View Full Version : New Phone, Finally!


aeon
03-13-17, 04:02 AM
I've wanted to get a new phone for a while, as my Google Nexus 4 (2013) is, for me, getting a little long in the tooth.

A lot of nice phones have come and gone in the past couple of years, but I never saw one that had what I wanted without some significant (to me) downside.

Finally, one appeared that ticked the right boxes...and it should be in my impatient paws in a couple of days.

The LG V20

http://cdn2.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/lg/lg-v20-ofic-1.jpg

5.7", 1440x2560 QHD, 4GB RAM, 64GB Flash, Nougat, yadda yadda...

For me, the compelling things were:

user-removable/swappable battery...great for instant 100% battery when needed, of course, but also because it can be removed so as to be able to avoid being tracked by commercial interests...this was a must, and so few phones have this now.

ES9218 Sabre HiFi SoC...this is the audio processor and converter in the phone, and I wanted one to replace my iPod and have great sound...the fact that the chip can do 2V RMS on output is great news for those of us who love to use serious headphones.

MicroSDXC slot...this was also a must...never again a phone without expansion capability. With the addition of a 128GB Samsung SDXC Pro card, I'll have 192GB of storage, and I should be able to get at least 20,000 songs on there.

FM radio...because Minnesota Public Radio is just that good, and it eats a lot less battery than streaming.


A hot one-day sale at more than 50% off and the inclusion of a free toy (LG 360į Camera) meant it was time to pull the trigger.

I haven't decided if I will root it right away or not...knowing me, I will probably be lazy. That said, my Google Nexus 4 ran pure Android, and if the LG V20 is too skinned I might have to root it.

It is factory-unlocked, so no carrier branding or bloat...and as you might guess from that, I don't do contracts. ;)

The bigger screen alone will be so welcome.


I'm a happy clam,
Ian

sarahsweets
03-13-17, 04:25 AM
I've wanted to get a new phone for a while, as my Google Nexus 4 (2013) is, for me, getting a little long in the tooth.

A lot of nice phones have come and gone in the past couple of years, but I never saw one that had what I wanted without some significant (to me) downside.

Finally, one appeared that ticked the right boxes...and it should be in my impatient paws in a couple of days.

The LG V20

http://cdn2.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/lg/lg-v20-ofic-1.jpg

5.7", 1440x2560 QHD, 4GB RAM, 64GB Flash, Nougat, yadda yadda...

For me, the compelling things were:

user-removable/swappable battery...great for instant 100% battery when needed, of course, but also because it can be removed so as to be able to avoid being tracked by commercial interests...this was a must, and so few phones have this now.

ES9218 Sabre HiFi SoC...this is the audio processor and converter in the phone, and I wanted one to replace my iPod and have great sound...the fact that the chip can do 2V RMS on output is great news for those of us who love to use serious headphones.

MicroSDXC slot...this was also a must...never again a phone without expansion capability. With the addition of a 128GB Samsung SDXC Pro card, I'll have 192GB of storage, and I should be able to get at least 20,000 songs on there.

FM radio...because Minnesota Public Radio is just that good, and it eats a lot less battery than streaming.


A hot one-day sale at more than 50% off and the inclusion of a free toy (LG 360į Camera) meant it was time to pull the trigger.

I haven't decided if I will root it right away or not...knowing me, I will probably be lazy. That said, my Google Nexus 4 ran pure Android, and if the LG V20 is too skinned I might have to root it.

It is factory-unlocked, so no carrier branding or bloat...and as you might guess from that, I don't do contracts. ;)

The bigger screen alone will be so welcome.


I'm a happy clam,
Ian

What is rooting. Im a fool so its probably obvious.

stef
03-13-17, 04:42 AM
What is rooting. Im a fool so its probably obvious.

same question...:doh:

aeon
03-13-17, 04:58 AM
What is rooting. Im a fool so its probably obvious.

Phones, and in this case, Android, run on an underlying operating system that is derived from UNIX.

In UNIX, a user has a certain level of privileges. Normally, the user of the phone is just that...a user...able to use it, but not mess with the operating system or preinstalled apps.

Having root access means you have all privileges...you are not just an admin...you are, on the operating system level, God. You are able to do anything...including destroying your phone if you are not careful.

So why the desire for this? Because it allows the possibility to install the operating system you want, outside what the manufacturer intended.

If I don't like what LG has done to customize Android 7 Nougat, I could wipe that out and install pure Android, or other variations as I see fit.

Also, root access and its associated privileges allow for some programs which cannot otherwise be used relating to utilities, programming, phone control, etc.

So it can be useful if you want to use your smartphone like the computer it is, and get the most out of it.

That said, I am not dead-set on being God on my phone, so I will likely just use it.

But the best time to root a phone is before it gets used, because the process wipes it, totally.

Also, make an error in rooting, and you can brick your phone...leaving it forever dead...and for sure, this process voids your warranty.

I know this was scattered, but I am up late and not fully coherent.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-13-17, 05:11 AM
And also, if you get a phone under contract, it usually will say, e.g., AT&T or something on startup, and will have a number of AT&T-branded apps, and perhaps advertising, as well as the potential of having parts of the phone disabled.

For example, most of the carrier-locked LG V20s in the US have the radio disabled, because they want you to use streaming and data so they can make money.

Rooting gets rid of all their stuff, usually makes your phone faster, and then you could use the phone with other carriers like T-Mobile, or things like Smart Talk and Cricket Wireless.

That's part of the reason I just buy my phones outright. They come unlocked, with no extra crap, full functionality, and I can use whatever company I want.

Also, it saves a lot of money in the end.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-13-17, 11:22 AM
Another couple reasons why someone might wish to root their phone:


you can set things so you are no longer pestered with advertising
you can fully control what apps run, and when, preserving battery and reducing data usage...
within Android, certain apps love to relaunch themselves and use data (Iím looking at you,
FB & Messenger)...with a rooted phone, you can put a full stop to that nonsense and take control.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-13-17, 12:35 PM
OK, a decision made...I will not root my LG V20 for now, and leave it stock and enjoy the benefits of a warranty, lol...

But I will root my Google Nexus 4 (an LG G4, basically) and make that my nerd playground for learning and experiencing the pleasures of CyanogenMod14. :)


Cheers,
Ian

midnightstar
03-13-17, 03:51 PM
Yay about your new phone aeon :grouphug:

sarahsweets
03-13-17, 04:21 PM
Wish I lived closer so you could help me root my iphone a bit, I love it and it doesnt need much but a few tweaks would be great.

Luvmybully
03-13-17, 04:45 PM
I have this phone! I was so sad when my old LG phone needed to be replaced, I just loved it. I do not love this one as much.

I love the tap on/tap off. I tried the built in DAC, it is not bad at all, but I have a small portable Fiio amp that is so nice, I'd rather use it.

What I don't like about this phone is all the apps are out all the time! No more tab that had them all that could be closed. I hate seeing all that stuff on my screen! I have made folders, but much much prefer that old way they had them.

The camera is nice, love the way it zooms out and in with a touch.

I would never attempt to root it, I am not good with that kind of stuff at all. But I would love not having the pre-installed stuff!

I use Verizon, but they don't do contracts anymore, which works great for me. They also (FINALLY) have rollover data, which I love.

Little Missy
03-13-17, 04:47 PM
And I remain thrilled to pieces over my ancient LG slider. :)

dvdnvwls
03-13-17, 05:13 PM
Root means having the master key to be able to modify the "guts" of how your phone works. Like (on a computer) being able to take apart Windows or take apart Mac OS and change (or break :) ) the whole way the computer works. It's one action - putting in the master key to the system. What you do after that isn't rooting - it's other stuff. :)

aeon
03-13-17, 08:31 PM
What I don't like about this phone is all the apps are out all the time! No more tab that had them all that could be closed. I hate seeing all that stuff on my screen! I have made folders, but much much prefer that old way they had them.

The LG V20 ships this way by default, but it can be changed to behave the old way (and another way besides) if you like.


Cheers,
Ian

acdc01
03-13-17, 09:06 PM
Congrats on your phone.

Why does being able to take out the battery stop commercial tracking? Google doesn't track it just with you being logged in to your google account with the phone?

Do you know how good the audio is on the Samsung Galaxy S7 since I assume you've searched high and low for a phone with good audio specs? I'd like a phone with good sound (both recordingwise and listening) but I absolutely need waterproof and the best camera possible so LG phone is a no go for me. Removable battery nice but not a requirement for me. mini SD card slot a must.

Luvmybully
03-13-17, 11:07 PM
The LG V20 ships this way by default, but it can be changed to behave the old way (and another way besides) if you like.


Cheers,
Ian

Is it very hard to change it?

aeon
03-14-17, 01:21 AM
Is it very hard to change it?

From my understanding it is just a parameter in settings.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-14-17, 01:50 AM
Why does being able to take out the battery stop commercial tracking? Google doesn't track it just with you being logged in to your google account with the phone?

No, I mean the kind of tracking when you physically walk into a store, or shop among a group of stores.

That has nothing to do with Google, but with the stores themselves.

Do you know how good the audio is on the Samsung Galaxy S7 since I assume you've searched high and low for a phone with good audio specs? I'd like a phone with good sound (both recordingwise and listening) but I absolutely need waterproof and the best camera possible so LG phone is a no go for me. Removable battery nice but not a requirement for me. mini SD card slot a must.

Tough call...Google Pixel XL is best camera, but I didn't care one way or the other because no phone can even begin to match the performance of an actual camera with even an APS-C sensor, and so I use a camera.

Sound: LG V20, no contest.

Try using the phone finder at GSMArena.


Cheers,
Ian

Little Missy
03-14-17, 07:54 AM
I'm NOT happy with my LG slider, I want a real phone!

acdc01
03-14-17, 08:19 AM
I'm NOT happy with my LG slider, I want a real phone!

It's a trap. I was perfectly happy with a dumb phone for ages until contracts changed and I might as well get a smart phone. Now, I always want a newer model even though I'm not usually tempted to buy anything. Like right now, I shouldn't buy but was just tempted to do so. Fortunately aeons phone descriptions have taken away my interest cause it doesn't sound like there is is a phone with waterproofing, excellent audio, and camera so I can hold off.

aeon
03-14-17, 10:07 AM
Like right now, I shouldn't buy but was just tempted to do so. Fortunately aeons phone descriptions have taken away my interest cause it doesn't sound like there is is a phone with waterproofing, excellent audio, and camera so I can hold off.

Lots of phones are water-resistant, but it is a rare thing indeed to encounter waterproofing.


Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-14-17, 11:21 AM
Fortunately aeons phone descriptions have taken away my interest cause it doesn't sound like there is is a phone with waterproofing, excellent audio, and camera so I can hold off.

Apple iPhone 7 is IP68, and ticks the other two boxes, but doesnít have SDXC card support, though you can get a model with 256GB of flash.

I donít know if you are tied to an ecosystem. I considered an iPhone, but I really wanted a removable battery, SDXC support, and the iPhone would have cost me 2-3x the price.


Cheers,
Ian

acdc01
03-14-17, 12:58 PM
Apple iPhone 7 is IP68, and ticks the other two boxes, but doesn’t have SDXC card support, though you can get a model with 256GB of flash.

I don’t know if you are tied to an ecosystem. I considered an iPhone, but I really wanted a removable battery, SDXC support, and the iPhone would have cost me 2-3x the price.


Cheers,
Ian

Can't go with iphone. I need to be able to mirror my cell phone onto my tv screen. With iPhone I'd have to buy an apple tv AND pay a fortune for memory. Cannot stand the idea of paying that much more for just slightly better sound.

I'm better off not buying really even though I'm tempted to get better. I have a Samsung note 1 right now but its not waterproof. Like you said, I've also got a separate waterproof camera so dont really need a new phone but I forget to bring it sometimes.

Thanks for the input.

aeon
03-14-17, 01:09 PM
I have a Samsung note 1 right now...

It is so time to upgrade!

My top picks on Android were:


Google Pixel XL
LG V20
OnePlusOne 3T
Samsung S7/Edge
Huawei Mate 9

From this, you can tell I was aiming high-end and I wanted a phablet.

V20 won because of features and sweet price.
Pixel XL was a strong contender because I was thinking of going Project Fi.
3T was great price, but battery/SDXC/low-res screen killed it for me.
Mate 9 was too hard to get without heavy customs fees.
S7/Edge was no because of TouchWiz and impending S8 release.

My current phone is not long for the world, so I had to make a choice.


Cheers,
Ian

Luvmybully
03-14-17, 01:25 PM
It's a trap. I was perfectly happy with a dumb phone for ages until contracts changed and I might as well get a smart phone. Now, I always want a newer model even though I'm not usually tempted to buy anything. Like right now, I shouldn't buy but was just tempted to do so. Fortunately aeons phone descriptions have taken away my interest cause it doesn't sound like there is is a phone with waterproofing, excellent audio, and camera so I can hold off.

If you are still gadget tempted, you can always get a portable amp/DAC for better sound with headphones. :D

dvdnvwls
03-14-17, 02:51 PM
When you have an older phone, there's always something better than it.

But, like aeon's introductory post here, what counts is if it's better in the ways that really count for you - otherwise, why bother?

acdc01
03-14-17, 03:19 PM
It is so time to upgrade

Oops, meant I have a note 3, not note 1. I think ill get a new phone within one year since I'm debating whether to switch carriers. Probably the samsung edge once the new verdion is out so thr old is cheaper. I prefer stock google but my criteria is just too restrictive to get that. I have to have wifi calling too as some places I go have bad reception. Hate how you have to get a carrier phone to get wifi calling. I think they set it up that way just so you have to buy their phone.

Great taste in phones by the way. I prefer phablets too.

aeon
03-14-17, 05:11 PM
Oops, meant I have a note 3, not note 1.

Itís still time, lol! :p

I think ill get a new phone within one year since I'm debating whether to switch carriers.

Donít get a phone from a carrier...buy an unlocked phone, then pick your carrier(s) of choice.

You get *all* the phone, and *none* of the bloat.

Probably the samsung edge once the new verdion is out so thr old is cheaper. I prefer stock google but my criteria is just too restrictive to get that.

Maybe, maybe not. It will be interesting to see where Google goes with the successor to the Pixel, because they really did well in this last round.

Had it not been for the LG V20, with those specific features so key to me, I would have gone with the Pixel XL for sure.

And Samsung is not a good choice if you like pure Android because their phones are not good candidates for rooting.

I have to have wifi calling too as some places I go have bad reception. Hate how you have to get a carrier phone to get wifi calling. I think they set it up that way just so you have to buy their phone.

Google Pixel, Pixel XL, and Nexus 6P, 6, and 5X are unlocked and do Wi-Fi calling on Project Fi. People have Wi-Fi calling working on rooted phones that did not come from a carrier. Also, you can always use Google Voice to get around that, and for sure, if your other party is down for it, use Messenger/Skype/WhatsApp/Viber, and on and on...

Great taste in phones by the way. I prefer phablets too.

Thanks. Iíve never had one, meaning aircraft-carrier size, but now is the time. :D

Also, when I got my Google Nexus 4, it was for a great price, but I knew at the time it was a high-end of the mid-end phone.

This time, I wanted a high-end phone, period.

Absent sales, I think the OnePlusOne 3T is the best value, and certainly the fastest, excepting the Apple iPhone 7.
Google Pixel XL is strong overall, and pure Android Nougat 7.1, with a sweet camera, but the price is ooh la la.

LG V20 isnít the fastest, or best looking, nor does it have the best camera...but it has some sweet features...Nougat, removable battery, SDXC support, second screen, IR blaster, FM radio, 3 microphones, hi-end SoC quad-DAC...

For who I am, and what I find important, it was like this phone was made for me. And when the sale appeared, it was time to pounce, so time to pounce...because for sure, I was not paying full price for it! ;)


Cheers,
Ian

acdc01
03-15-17, 06:09 PM
Yeah you got a sweet deal on your phone.

Thanks for the wifi calling info. Wifi calling just seems a lot simpler to me so i prefer it. I use what's app already with some people but not everyone who calls uses apps. Google voice, I don't know any way to automatically have it switch to forwarding my call to the Google number when cell reception is bad but switch back to cell calling when not bad. I wouldnt remember to change the setting. Project fi is interesting. I didn't know about it. it seems like I would have to be on one of their plans and their plans are more expensive than my current one as I'm on a family plan so it's out for me. So I'll probably stick with carrier phones myself. It's not that big a deal to me to get a carrier versus unlocked phone. They'll unlock it for you after a while anyway.

aeon
03-22-17, 05:18 PM
The follow-up:

Oh. My. Goodness!

The ESS Technology-sourced ES9218 SABRE HiFi SoC (http://www.esstech.com/index.php/en/news/newsroom/ess-technology-brings-advanced-audiophile-features-mobile-devices-first-time/) in the LG V20 is really something special. (Hereís a link with a deep explanation (http://www.androidauthority.com/lg-v20-quad-dac-explained-713587/) for those who like audio engineering and math.)

The combination of a quad DAC, 100% analog gain control, and high-power output stage has resulted in sound quality that has exceeded every expectation I had.

This isnít just ďbetterĒ audio...this is like having a discrete mini-amp running in class A in my pocket.

The first thing I noticed was the output rails...even under load from energy-sucking low-end, there was no drop, no distortion...Iím talking sustained drones from pipe organs and synth bass...even punishing sustained multi-hits from downtuned 808 kickdrums...the tails were pure sine wave. Also, even when this was going on, the rest of an arrangement could come in hard and there was no sign of the output stage reaching any kind of limit...headroom for days.

And this was when I was listening with full, large-driver cans...not earbuds.

Yes, 2V RMS on the output is a big deal.

That also meant I could listen at less overall volume, but still get the full smack, boom, crack, and snapóall those horn transients, snare hits, 808 booms, Motown baritone burps...they were punchy in a way I have never heard outside of dedicated studio equipment...certainly nothing portable, much less a phone.

Oh, and analog gain, not digital, so no smashing your signal into your noisefloor...I never felt I had to turn things up just to avoid throwing away bit depth...I could listen quietly, yet it was still fully alive.

The LG V20 is a music-loverís tour-de-force playback device, and hey, you get an Android 7 Nougat smartphone of exceptional caliber for free! :p

I so made the right choice for me. ❤

---

Other things I like about the LG V20 other than the audio:

snappy
VoLTE is amazing clarity
LG UI skin is minimal
no carrier bloat
sensitive antennas, cellular and wi-fi
doesnít get warm
sips battery
fast charger is fast, even for impatient ADHD me
wide-angle cam is fun
blue-frequency filtering
Micro SDXC is truly fast, makes use of top-tier card I got
Android 7 Nougat


Iím a happy happy clam,
Ian

acdc01
03-23-17, 10:59 PM
Omg. Oh, how you make me want to get your phone too! Shame it isn't waterproof or I'd definitely get it.

Tbh, because of your thread, I'm going to get the $350 sony mx1000x noise canceling, wireless headphones this weekend and of course with my upgrade headphones I'm going to need an upgraded phone too soon so that will be about $1,000 total.

Oh well, I think it's a good thing. I think I may be too cheap sometimes. The difference between low versus high quality sound is striking, like watching 480p versus 4k video.

I kind of wonder if wired headphones might be a better choice but I do want to wear these headphones while lifting weights so I think wired might be cumbersome.

psychopathetic
03-23-17, 11:30 PM
haha that's so awesome! Glad you like it Aeons! I LOOOOOVE shopping for, falling in love with, and receiving new <s>toys</s>gadgets.

Another (very illegal) reason a lot of people root their phones...is it allows you to put apps and games onto your phone without having to pay for them.
This use to be very exciting to me. Especially because I've been on such a tight budget for so long.

However it's no longer something that excites me. I've never felt a strong desire to jailbreak/root my iphone 5. I found that I actually enjoy spending a little money on my apps and games. They mean more to me that way and I'm kinda proud of my growing collection of paid apps and games (haha omg, I'm such a mindless consumer sheep!)...when I had a rooted android phone and threw a bunch of games and stuff on there, they didn't mean anything to me because I didn't have to pay for them. It took a lot of the excitement away for me.

I'm in love with my phone. Use it just about as much as my computer anymore...and omg it blows my mind what these little things can do. Way beyond anything I could've ever have imagined as a kid.


Anyhow, thanks for sharing this with us Aeon. I really love when people splurge on themselves and get themselves new toys. It's always been such an exciting thing for me to get new gadgets. I love the first couple weeks with them when they've got that shiny 'new' feeling about them. As you push them to their limits and explore them and find reason after reason why you're so in love with it lol. Fun times!

aeon
03-24-17, 09:10 AM
I kind of wonder if wired headphones might be a better choice...

If quality of sound is among your top criteria, most definitely.

Cheers,
Ian

aeon
03-24-17, 10:20 AM
Sony MDR-7506

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page2/B000AJIF4E-1.jpg

A professional standard for decades for a reason.

No features like noise-cancelling or wireless to interfere with sound quality. ;)

Iím on my third pair now, and got my first in 1987.

The LG V20 drives them just fine. :)


Cheers,
Ian

Little Missy
03-24-17, 10:27 AM
Sony MDR-7506

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/electronics/detail-page2/B000AJIF4E-1.jpg

A professional standard for decades for a reason.

No features like noise-cancelling or wireless to interfere with sound quality. ;)

Iím on my third pair now, and got my first in 1987.

The LG V20 drives them just fine. :)


Cheers,
Ian

Those are great cans.

I went for the Sennheiser 650 this time and love them too.

aeon
03-24-17, 10:28 AM
Those are great cans.

I went for the Sennheiser 650 this time and love them too.

Another top-shelf pick. http://www.sympato.ch/smileys/Yaisse.gif

acdc01
03-26-17, 06:43 AM
Thanks for the headphone suggestions. I've been lifting weights for a week now and I realize wired really is cumbersome when exercising. So decided to get Bluetooth and pay a lot more for lower sound quality because of function requirements unfortunately.

The sony 1000x supports ldac which theoretically allows for high quality audio over bluetooth. And sony is working with Google to make the latest version of android support ldac so in theory, Bluetooth audio should improve by a lot soon with the Sony headphones (without having to buy a sony phone which is what you need to do right now to use ldac).

If only Bluetooth wasn't a need.

aeon
03-26-17, 07:36 AM
It's not the Bluetooth that is the issue.

It's that you can't get a powerful enough power source in a wireless headphone to drive a quality DAC and then have enough voltage on the power supply to adequately support the output without compromising audio fidelity.

Well, I suppose you can, but they would be heavy headphones.


Cheers,
Ian

Little Missy
03-26-17, 07:42 AM
It's not the Bluetooth that is the issue.

It's that you can't get a powerful enough power source in a wireless headphone to drive a quality DAC and then have enough voltage on the power supply to adequately support the output without compromising audio fidelity.

Well, I suppose you can, but they would be heavy headphones.


Cheers,
Ian

I WISH I had the picture but it is sci-fi 50's for sure.

acdc01
03-27-17, 07:31 PM
It's not the Bluetooth that is the issue.

It's that you can't get a powerful enough power source in a wireless headphone to drive a quality DAC and then have enough voltage on the power supply to adequately support the output without compromising audio fidelity.

Well, I suppose you can, but they would be heavy headphones.


Cheers,
Ian

Are you sure it isn't about BOTH power and the limited Bluetooth data transfer rate? Sony's been touting their new LDAC codec cause it improves on the later and they say it improves sound quality due to improvement (see link (http://www.phonearena.com/news/Google-says-Sony-contributed-to-major-wireless-audio-quality-enhancements-in-Android-O_id92267)).

I haven't seen any articles that contradicted their claim though of course can't trust marketers or most media on their word.

Luvmybully
03-27-17, 09:02 PM
Those are great cans.

I went for the Sennheiser 650 this time and love them too.

I have the Sennheiser 598's. I love them!

I need some closed back headphones, I don't know what to get!

aeon
03-28-17, 10:11 AM
Are you sure it isn't about BOTH power and the limited Bluetooth data transfer rate? Sony's been touting their new LDAC codec cause it improves on the later and they say it improves sound quality due to improvement (see link (http://www.phonearena.com/news/Google-says-Sony-contributed-to-major-wireless-audio-quality-enhancements-in-Android-O_id92267)).

I haven't seen any articles that contradicted their claim though of course can't trust marketers or most media on their word.

My apologies, yes, right now it is both. My point, poorly communicated, was that even if there was lossless, full-fidelity data transmission to the headphones, the headphones themselves would be the limiting factor if and when they are wireless.


Thanks,
Ian

acdc01
03-28-17, 08:22 PM
My apologies, yes, right now it is both. My point, poorly communicated, was that even if there was lossless, full-fidelity data transmission to the headphones, the headphones themselves would be the limiting factor if and when they are wireless.

Thanks. I do realize I'm not going to get as good sound with wireless no matter Sonys improvements. Why cant there be headphones with everything? This is my problem, I always want it all (even things that havent been invented yet sometimes)for only a moderate amount of money so have difficulties ever buying anything electronic.