View Full Version : What is the relationship that promotes the development of self-regulation?


mildadhd
03-25-17, 02:49 AM
Children's self-regulation develops in a relationship with a parenting adult.

This thread is meant to discuss and learn more about what is the relationship between the child and the parenting adult that promotes the development of self-regulation?


m

Fuzzy12
03-25-17, 02:54 AM
As far as I know a factor in the development of self regulation is a healthy attachment between parent and child. I'm very interested to hear more.

mildadhd
03-25-17, 03:51 AM
As far as I know a factor in the development of self regulation is a healthy attachment between parent and child. I'm very interested to hear more.

Thanks

I am really interested in learning more about the healthy relationship between the parenting adult and the child, as well.

I am listening to a book (audiobook) by Gordon Neufeld and Gabor Mate called "Hold On To Your Kids", that is loaded with information about the healthy relationship between parent and child.

I will post some quotes for discussion purposes from that book and other sources overtime.

Please feel free to discuss any information that you think would help us learn more, aswell.


m

sarahsweets
03-25-17, 05:02 AM
Children's self-regulation develops in a relationship with a parenting adult.

This thread is meant to discuss and learn more about what is the relationship between the child and the parenting adult that promotes the development of self-regulation?


m
True unconditional love and care creates that initial bond that I believe can impact a child forever.

Fuzzy12
03-25-17, 05:10 AM
True unconditional love and care creates that initial bond that I believe can impact a child forever.

Yes I think that's exactly it. Also the child has to know that it is truly unconditionally loved and will be taken care of. The developing child needs to feel secure.

I think there are practices often carried out by caring and loving care takers that can undermine this feEling of security (like letting an infant cry it out) but I'm not sure if and how much they affect the development of self regulation.

I guess with something like abuse or neglect it's obvious that they will have a severe and negative impact on the development of a child but I wonder about the little mistakes that parents might make unknowingly that might also subtly influence development.

Lunacie
03-25-17, 10:49 AM
Somehow I managed that unconditional love with my daughter. I just read
something a few minutes ago that made me realize I don't do that with my
granddaughter. I tend to show her my disappointment thinking it will make
her change I guess ... but she will always have autism. I know we're both
much happier when I how her how much I love her and appreciate her. Hope
my horrible-adhd-memory will let me remember to do that.

mildadhd
03-25-17, 06:38 PM
In his book "On Becoming a Person", the psychotherapist Carl Rogers describes a warm, caring attitude for which he adopted the phrase unconditional positive regard because, he said, "It has no conditions of worth attached to it."

This is a caring, wrote Rogers, "which is not possessive, which demands no personal gratification. It is an atmosphere which simply demonstrates I care; not I care for you if you behave thus and so."(*3)

Rogers was summing up the qualities of a good therapist in relation to her/his clients.

Substitute parent for therapist and child for client, and we have an eloquent description of what is needed in a parent-child relationship...





Children who have AD(H)D (aka, deficits of self-regulation) do not choose to behave inattentive, impulsive and hyperactive.



...Unconditional parental love is the indispensable nutrient for the child's healthy emotional growth.

The first task is to create space in the child's heart for the certainty that she is precisely the person the parents want and love.

She does not have to do anything or be any different to earn that love--in fact, she cannot do anything, since that love cannot be won or lost.

It is not conditional.

It is just there, regardless of which side the child is acting from--"good" or "bad".

The child can be ornery, unpleasant, whiney, uncooperative, and plain rude, and the parent still lets her feel loved.

Ways have to be found to convey the unacceptability of certain behaviors without making the child herself feel unaccepted.

She has to be able to bring her unrest, her least likable characteristics to the parent and still receive the parent's absolutely satisfying, security-inducing unconditional love.

-Gordon Neufeld and Gabor Mate, "Hold On To Your Kids", Chapter: "Stuck in Immaturity", p 117.









m

Fuzzy12
03-25-17, 08:26 PM
I guess most (I guess!!!) Parents do love their kids unconditionally but nor everyone might be able to
Convey that to their child.

I guess the question that i find most interesting is how do you ensure that the child knows that they are unconditionally cared for (especially when it comes to discouraging unacceptable behaviour).

From everything I've read and everything that the nhs (our national health service) recommends what I gather is thst the first few months are vital in installing your bsby a sense of security. You want to convey that the world is a safe and benign place.

From what I remember some of the recommended things are:

Lots and lots of skin to skin contact

Try and anticipate your bsby's needs

Always attend to them when crying: babies can't be spoiled.

Etc.




Children who have AD(H)D (aka, deficits of self-regulation) do not choose to behave inattentive, impulsive and hyperactive.









m

Fuzzy12
03-25-17, 08:29 PM
I can see mild that you've quoted from a chapter called immaturity. Does this chapter discuss a link between a child not feeling unconditionally loved and being immature?

mildadhd
03-25-17, 11:48 PM
I guess most (I guess!!!) Parents do love their kids unconditionally but nor everyone might be able to
Convey that to their child.




I think most parenting adults love their kids, but not all parenting adults are aware how to convey that to their kid(s) who are born with a more sensitive temperament.



m

namazu
03-26-17, 12:02 AM
In my opinion, conveying the love part is the same, regardless of whether or not a child is born with a more sensitive temperament.

But helping the child develop self-regulation skills (which do not develop solely as a result of love and affection) is a different story -- there, temperament may make a bigger difference.

I don't think children -- even children with sensitive temperaments -- are as fragile as they're sometimes made out to be by the panicked-parenting industry; an otherwise loving, attentive, and attuned parent won't permanently "break" a child by letting them cry themselves to sleep one night when they're a year old, or forever "miscalibrate" their sense of safety and security by picking them up from behind when they're not expecting it (the horror!).

Adding to the stress of parenting by making it seem as though children need to be handled "expertly" at all times doesn't seem to help parents or children with self-regulation. (I don't mean to imply that anyone here is claiming this, but I've seen some seemingly over-the-top articles related to the subject of the development of self-regulation.) I'm not sure what the trade-offs may be in terms of optimizing self-regulation development in kids with sensitive temperaments or a predisposition to ADHD (particularly those being raised by parents with self-regulation difficulties).

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 01:51 AM
I think most parenting adults love their kids, but not all parenting adults are aware how to convey that to their kid(s) who are born with a more sensitive temperament.



m
Do you think kids born with a more sensitive temperaments have more difficulties understanding that their parent loves them? Why?

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 01:52 AM
In my opinion, conveying the love part is the same, regardless of whether or not a child is born with a more sensitive temperament.

But helping the child develop self-regulation skills (which do not develop solely as a result of love and affection) is a different story -- there, temperament may make a bigger difference.

I don't think children -- even children with sensitive temperaments -- are as fragile as they're sometimes made out to be by the panicked-parenting industry; an otherwise loving, attentive, and attuned parent won't permanently "break" a child by letting them cry themselves to sleep one night when they're a year old, or forever "miscalibrate" their sense of safety and security by picking them up from behind when they're not expecting it (the horror!).

Adding to the stress of parenting by making it seem as though children need to be handled "expertly" at all times doesn't seem to help parents or children with self-regulation. (I don't mean to imply that anyone here is claiming this, but I've seen some seemingly over-the-top articles related to the subject of the development of self-regulation.) I'm not sure what the trade-offs may be in terms of optimizing self-regulation development in kids with sensitive temperaments or a predisposition to ADHD (particularly those being raised by parents with self-regulation difficulties).

I hope they don't learn self regulation by example....:eek::rolleyes:

mildadhd
03-26-17, 04:51 AM
Do you think kids born with a more sensitive temperaments have more difficulties understanding that their parent loves them? Why?

In my experience it was hard to feel consistent "unconditional positive regard" while also being punished for immature behavior I did not cognitively choose.


m

mildadhd
03-26-17, 05:33 AM
When I discipline my son I always try to keep our relationship unconditional by participating in what ever the discipline with him.



m

mildadhd
03-26-17, 05:46 AM
I hope they don't learn self regulation by example....:eek::rolleyes:

There is an easer away for parents to promote healthy relationship in question, without needing to understanding the more complex neurophysiology involved.



m

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 05:47 AM
In my experience it was hard to feel consistent "unconditional positive regard" while also being punished for immature behavior I did not cognitively choose.


m
That's a really good point. I can see how that would confuse a child at the least to be punished for something they don't know how to change.

Since kids with adhd are assumed to mature in some ways later than other kids there would be more instances of this happening if the parents tend to punish for their behaviour.

Is that what you mean?

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 05:48 AM
When I discipline my son I always try to keep our relationship unconditional by participating in what ever the discipline with him.



m

That sounds interesting. Could you give an example?

mildadhd
03-26-17, 06:15 AM
That sounds interesting. Could you give an example?

If my son's room needed to be cleaned, I cleaned it with him. If he was behind in his homework, I did his homework with him. If a timeout was needed, I did the timeout with him, etc.






m

namazu
03-26-17, 11:51 AM
If my son's room needed to be cleaned, I cleaned it with him. If he was behind in his homework, I did his homework with him. If a timeout was needed, I did the timeout with him, etc.
Remind me -- how old's your son now?

Has your son "earned" fewer timeouts since you started sitting with him during timeout?

Letching Gray
03-26-17, 03:20 PM
Does anyone know where Gabor Mate's double-blind, controlled body of research is published?

Letching Gray
03-26-17, 04:19 PM
That's a really good point. I can see how that would confuse a child at the least to be punished for something they don't know how to change.

Since kids with adhd are assumed to mature in some ways later than other kids there would be more instances of this happening if the parents tend to punish for their behaviour.

Is that what you mean?

This is exactly what happened to me. I couldn't pay attention and I didn't know I had a problem that I couldn't control. I trusted that my parents would know what to do to get me whatever help I needed so that I could follow what the teacher was teaching us in third grade. I remember thinking that thought, "Mom and dad will help me."

That's when all hell broke loose. Third grade. I didn't know, and "they knew" I was a G.. D... S.. .. . B.... kid. And they reinforced their "help" like that tens of thousands of times. Tens of thousands. Tens, literally, tens of thousands of times.

I want (and have had this longing since I first discovered what it's like to pay attention) to do something for the cause. To make people understand what this thing is and how destructive it is, to raise awareness, super big time, so that no child will learn to hate himself.

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 04:40 PM
Just checking I understood your initials correctly. You mean rather than try to understand and help you they chastised you?

I'm sorry. That sounds like a terrible awakening and i can only imagine the confusion and the disappointment. :grouphug::grouphug:

Letching Gray
03-26-17, 05:24 PM
Just checking I understood your initials correctly. You mean rather than try to understand and help you they chastised you?

I'm sorry. That sounds like a terrible awakening and i can only imagine the confusion and the disappointment. :grouphug::grouphug:

That was their way of trying to help me. Pummeling me with statements intended to motivate me to change, to concentrate, to try, to work as hard as necessary to become a scholar, and a CEO of a major corporation, to be a straight A student, to win awards, and to become President.

They said I was a "GD Son Of A ***** Kid."

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 06:30 PM
To be honest I actually think there's a wider lesson to be learnt here (not that adhd or it's impact on someone's life isn't significant. ..): to listen to your kids.. maybe without any preconceived notions or prejudice. Thanks for the reminder.

This is exactly what happened to me. I couldn't pay attention and I didn't know I had a problem that I couldn't control. I trusted that my parents would know what to do to get me whatever help I needed so that I could follow what the teacher was teaching us in third grade. I remember thinking that thought, "Mom and dad will help me."

That's when all hell broke loose. Third grade. I didn't know, and "they knew" I was a G.. D... S.. .. . B.... kid. And they reinforced their "help" like that tens of thousands of times. Tens of thousands. Tens, literally, tens of thousands of times.

I want (and have had this longing since I first discovered what it's like to pay attention) to do something for the cause. To make people understand what this thing is and how destructive it is, to raise awareness, super big time, so that no child will learn to hate himself.

Luvmybully
03-26-17, 07:04 PM
I do think giving children a sense of safety and security from birth is crucial to them developing self regulation.

Namazu, I totally understand and agree with you that some make it sound so complicated, a parent will not be able to achieve it without an advanced degree. YES, it is vital, but so much of it is instinctual for parents.

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 07:12 PM
I do think giving children a sense of safety and security from birth is crucial to them developing self regulation.

Namazu, I totally understand and agree with you that some make it sound so complicated, a parent will not be able to achieve it without an advanced degree. YES, it is vital, but so much of it is instinctual for parents.
It is complicated and it's too vital to get most of it wrong. But then my instincts suck.

Luvmybully
03-26-17, 07:21 PM
It is complicated and it's too vital to get most of it wrong. But then my instincts suck.

I do not think your instincts suck. Everything you post here is very intuitive to your baby's needs.

sarahsweets
03-26-17, 08:26 PM
I had my first child when I was 20. I was a new wife and new mother. I received no handbook. There was no internet to consult. The books du jour about parenting then were Dr spock. I was too tired taking care of a baby to contemplate if I was giving enough nurturing to avoid the potential of somehow not bonding enough, or damaging the baby in the future. I just loved my baby and took care of his needs. When I had to correct behavior, I thought about what happened to me growing up and knew that what happened to me was bad, it hurt and I didnt want to do that to my baby. I totally winged it and went with what felt right deep in my soul. I have three kids now and a 21 year marriage. My kids are 21, 17 and 13. They still need me. They need me more now actually and in different ways. They all still live with me and I love it. Im no expert, but I think Im doing well so far. And I am doing well with no extra reading, no overthinking, planning, controlling or philosophizing. Kids are not thermostats that you can set at 70 degrees and go about your day. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.

Letching Gray
03-26-17, 08:39 PM
To be honest I actually think there's a wider lesson to be learnt here (not that adhd or it's impact on someone's life isn't significant. ..): to listen to your kids.. maybe without any preconceived notions or prejudice. Thanks for the reminder.


I agree Fuzzy. Absolutely. Even as I was typing that, I was reminded that those kinds of misunderstandings occur all too often, don't they? and that is rotten. Destructive, painful, traumatic. Without trying to sound like I'm overdoing it, I was so eager to learn and to please, just the opposite of what they believed-and the rest of my family. That's a good size chunk of the pain I've worked through. If they had only known I wasn't who they thought I was, at all.

However, and I've said this here already, even when they understood what ADHD is and how it disabled me, many years later, they demonstrated little compassion for my hell.

BTW, they were both graduates of the finest universities in the United States, summa cum laude, photographic memory, academic scholarships, head of prestigious company, intellectuals, etc. So, education and status and the best intentions only go so far. The key, to me, is love. And, IMO, for a number of reasons, those with this disorder are finely tuned to pick up on whether or not we are loved and when we know that we are, it makes all the difference for us.

Fuzzy12
03-26-17, 10:22 PM
I had my first child when I was 20. I was a new wife and new mother. I received no handbook. There was no internet to consult. The books du jour about parenting then were Dr spock. I was too tired taking care of a baby to contemplate if I was giving enough nurturing to avoid the potential of somehow not bonding enough, or damaging the baby in the future. I just loved my baby and took care of his needs. When I had to correct behavior, I thought about what happened to me growing up and knew that what happened to me was bad, it hurt and I didnt want to do that to my baby. I totally winged it and went with what felt right deep in my soul. I have three kids now and a 21 year marriage. My kids are 21, 17 and 13. They still need me. They need me more now actually and in different ways. They all still live with me and I love it. Im no expert, but I think Im doing well so far. And I am doing well with no extra reading, no overthinking, planning, controlling or philosophizing. Kids are not thermostats that you can set at 70 degrees and go about your day. Sometimes you just have to roll with it.

I totally agree that you are a brilliant parent and I've learnt a lot from your posts!!

However I don't think there's anything wrong with planning, philosophising or thinking about parenting or your relationship with your child. If there was I wouldn't have learnt anything from your posts or those of others on here.

It's true that it's difficult to find the time and I absolutely don't have time to read any books about it but I do think it's important to think about your parenting choices

I'm learning that a lot actually is just instinct but our instincts are also influenced by our culture and experiences.

Child development is a field of study like any other. I think it's fascinating to hear about the studies that have been conducted and their results. Most of them confirm what your instincts might tell you to do anyway but they give an insight to why. And sometimes our instincts are wrong. Eg people have studied the effect of praise on performance and they found that children who were praised for innate abilities like intelligence actually performed less well in the long run than children who were praised for their haRd work and effort. It makes sense once you think about it but it's not obvious I think.

I'm not expressing myself well and these so much more I could write about this but in summary I think there are very few instances when philosophising and just thinking about what you are doing makes things worse.

If parents instincts were always right we wouldn't have so many kids with varying degrees of troubled childhoods. I'm sure Letching grey's parents too followed their instincts snd did what they believed was right.

Or just look at something as simple as breastfeeding. You'd have thought there are few things that are more instinctive than breastfeeding. Yet I found it incredibly tough and I'm not the only one. The WHO recommends exclusively breastfeeding for yhr first 6 months and this gets drummed into expectant abd new mothers a lot. Like seriously, a lot !!

In the uk, more than 60% of women start with breastfeeding. However by 6 months it's only 0.2% of women who are still exclusively breastfeeding. I highly doubt it's because they couldn't be bothered to. I yhink it's because they encountered too many problems and did not get the information on how to fix them. For me learning about how the whole thing actually works, how milk is produced and what affects your supply was invaluable. If I'd known in the beginning what I know now I don't think we'd have had so many problems.

mildadhd
03-27-17, 12:32 AM
Remind me -- how old's your son now?

Has your son "earned" fewer timeouts since you started sitting with him during timeout?

We have only experienced a few timeouts in over 18 years.

I would say we learned.

Daily supervised free play really helped promote the relationship essentials.



m

Luvmybully
03-27-17, 02:02 AM
I totally agree that you are a brilliant parent and I've learnt a lot from your posts!!

However I don't think there's anything wrong with planning, philosophising or thinking about parenting or your relationship with your child. If there was I wouldn't have learnt anything from your posts or those of others on here.

It's true that it's difficult to find the time and I absolutely don't have time to read any books about it but I do think it's important to think about your parenting choices

I'm learning that a lot actually is just instinct but our instincts are also influenced by our culture and experiences.

Child development is a field of study like any other. I think it's fascinating to hear about the studies that have been conducted and their results. Most of them confirm what your instincts might tell you to do anyway but they give an insight to why. And sometimes our instincts are wrong. Eg people have studied the effect of praise on performance and they found that children who were praised for innate abilities like intelligence actually performed less well in the long run than children who were praised for their haRd work and effort. It makes sense once you think about it but it's not obvious I think.

I'm not expressing myself well and these so much more I could write about this but in summary I think there are very few instances when philosophising and just thinking about what you are doing makes things worse.

If parents instincts were always right we wouldn't have so many kids with varying degrees of troubled childhoods. I'm sure Letching grey's parents too followed their instincts snd did what they believed was right.

Or just look at something as simple as breastfeeding. You'd have thought there are few things that are more instinctive than breastfeeding. Yet I found it incredibly tough and I'm not the only one. The WHO recommends exclusively breastfeeding for yhr first 6 months and this gets drummed into expectant abd new mothers a lot. Like seriously, a lot !!

In the uk, more than 60% of women start with breastfeeding. However by 6 months it's only 0.2% of women who are still exclusively breastfeeding. I highly doubt it's because they couldn't be bothered to. I yhink it's because they encountered too many problems and did not get the information on how to fix them. For me learning about how the whole thing actually works, how milk is produced and what affects your supply was invaluable. If I'd known in the beginning what I know now I don't think we'd have had so many problems.

Fuzzy, I did not mean to trivialize the importance of knowledge and education in early childhood development. I only went to college for a very short time, studying early childhood development. I KNOW it made me a better parent, especially for my super hyperactive ADHD child. Working at a special ed school also helped tremendously.

YES! there are many parents that seem to "miss" how to BEST parent their children.

One thing I totally agree with in this thread is the idea of POSITIVE discipline and parenting attitudes. I do believe many parents instinctually feel, just overall wrongness, in discipline techniques that cause their children anguish and extreme stress. Some work hard to overcome that feeling, believing they MUST be "tough" in order to "teach". But others say "NO!" and will believe that if it feels WRONG, stop!

I agree with the group that feels you should not cause your children excessive stress and anguish and grief to teach them. My mother died WAY too young, but one lesson I will NEVER ever forget from her, is that if you, as a mother, feel something is WRONG, believe yourself. STOP.

My youngest daughter (the SUPER hyperactive ADHD daughter) is expecting her third child in May. She is 22. She KNOWS what it takes to breastfeed. She took a breast pump to high school and pumped in the guidance councilors office at 16 years old, to exclusively feed her first born breastmilk, for 10 months. She has ADHD. She forgets stuff ALL. THE. TIME.
I can't tell you how many times she had to go back to school to get the milk and pump, because she forgot them in the guidance counselors office. Good thing the custodians knew her well and were willing to unlock the school for her!

My point is, this baby, she is formula feeding from day one. And I do not blame her one bit! She has EXTREME difficulty sitting still. She works She has a 2 year old that is insanely active and into EVERYTHING. She knows her limits and abilities, and knows she will be a better mother NOT breastfeeding this baby. Kudos to her! Her son will be FINE, and will in fact THRIVE, because his mother is following her instincts to do what works best for her FAMILY.

Fuzzy12
03-27-17, 03:14 AM
Hi bully, that's really impressive. Pumping is hard. I don't have a strong opinion on the breastfeeding vs formula feeding debate. I just used it as an example of something that you imagine that you will just know how to do it out of instinct but you don't and a little knowledge helps a lot if you do decide to breastfeed.

sarahsweets
03-27-17, 03:56 AM
Fuzzy I didnt mean to imply that all the stuff I wrote was unnecessary, wrong or that I didnt do it. I was kinda trying to normalize things because parents can make themselves nuts over trying to do things just right, and then the shame and guilt that follows can be devastating. I remember when I was pregnant I read the book : what to expect when youre expecting" and the follow ups: what to expect the first year, and toddler years. Those books were invaluable. My only point was that winging it happens sometimes and assuming you are trying your best, loving and all that, our kids are remarkable resilient.

Letching Gray
03-27-17, 05:08 AM
i do not think your instincts suck. Everything you post here is very intuitive to your baby's needs.


dig it.

Letching Gray
03-27-17, 05:09 AM
We have only experienced a few timeouts in over 18 years.

I would say we learned.

Daily supervised free play really helped promote the relationship essentials.



m


I still get time outs

Fuzzy12
03-27-17, 05:44 AM
Fuzzy I didnt mean to imply that all the stuff I wrote was unnecessary, wrong or that I didnt do it. I was kinda trying to normalize things because parents can make themselves nuts over trying to do things just right, and then the shame and guilt that follows can be devastating. I remember when I was pregnant I read the book : what to expect when youre expecting" and the follow ups: what to expect the first year, and toddler years. Those books were invaluable. My only point was that winging it happens sometimes and assuming you are trying your best, loving and all that, our kids are remarkable resilient.
:grouphug:

I hope they are resilient. I'd like to believe that but I'm not sure.

Strangely I've found that there's a lot of pressure (gp, midwives, health visitors, other moms) on just knowing what to do instinctively. I feel as if I'm somehow just automatically supposed to do the right thing. I don't. The other moms somehow seem to know exactly what to do and how to do it. With some things yes I can wing it amd I'm winging it well but with others I'm happy to learn about it.

Sorry mild..back to the topic now.

Luvmybully
03-27-17, 12:44 PM
Hi bully, that's really impressive. Pumping is hard. I don't have a strong opinion on the breastfeeding vs formula feeding debate. I just used it as an example of something that you imagine that you will just know how to do it out of instinct but you don't and a little knowledge helps a lot if you do decide to breastfeed.

Yes, that is what I thought you meant.

I was also pointing out that breastfeeding is one of those things mothers get those instincts about, as in, "This is not working for me!" Those mothers should follow their instincts, not try to force themselves to follow some sort of "ideal" that is NOT ideal for them.

Luvmybully
03-27-17, 12:52 PM
:grouphug:

I hope they are resilient. I'd like to believe that but I'm not sure.

Strangely I've found that there's a lot of pressure (gp, midwives, health visitors, other moms) on just knowing what to do instinctively. I feel as if I'm somehow just automatically supposed to do the right thing. I don't. The other moms somehow seem to know exactly what to do and how to do it. With some things yes I can wing it amd I'm winging it well but with others I'm happy to learn about it.

Sorry mild..back to the topic now.

Fuzzy, all first time moms go through the learning process, and no those moms do NOT always know the right thing to do. Then the 2nd baby comes along, and you realize you don't know as much as you thought you did, and the learning process continues. Just the subsequent babies, you aren't as nervous about it.

I do think this is staying on topic, this is about the budding development of mother (or father or caregiver) relationships with their children.

I think it's very, very important to want to learn, to seek knowledge. It helps you make informed decisions. It shows you how extraordinarily varied parenting,, and children, are.

Letching Gray
03-27-17, 05:23 PM
I see good parenting constantly on this website. CONSTANTLY. Much of being a good parent is caring. And that attribute is on display here abundantly. No one knows what to do, you know? You have this tiny, helpless, pink blob pop out and in an instant nothing's ever the same. This little fella is suddenly the focus of everything you are, all you think about, and it is show time. He/she is yours.

The fact that there is earnest, sincere discussion about how best to raise kids is itself proof of good parenting. If we didn't give a rip, that would be bad parenting, regardless what else the parent does or doesn't do.

mildadhd
03-27-17, 07:46 PM
Accommodating complex children in complex societies, involves basic instincts and learning.




m

Letching Gray
03-27-17, 08:09 PM
I see good parenting constantly on this website. CONSTANTLY. Much of being a good parent is caring. And that attribute is on display here abundantly. No one knows what to do, you know? You have this tiny, helpless, pink blob pop out and in an instant nothing's ever the same. This little fella is suddenly the focus of everything you are, all you think about, and it is show time. He/she is yours.

The fact that there is earnest, sincere discussion about how best to raise kids is itself proof of good parenting. If we didn't give a rip, that would be bad parenting, regardless what else the parent does or doesn't do.

One of the ways I know this is true is that my mother wouldn't participate in a discussion like this. Not about me, anyway. If I had been killed or died of disease or whatever as a child or young man, she would have been relieved. Mourn? Not for a second, although she would have felt sorry for my dad. And this woman was beyond brilliant, total recall. At Radcliffe, she would retrieve every jot and tittle from memory for her French test, just as it appeared in the book she had read, as she pursued her degree in economics.

She could quote Spock, but, her heart wasn't in it. What I'm trying to say is that we can and will make gobs of mistakes raising our children, or at least I have. But the love we have for them makes all the difference. Kids know whether they are loved, despite mistakes and failures.

Little Missy
03-27-17, 08:58 PM
Right about the time I was ready to throw an all out fit over something I wanted to do or wanted to have, you name it, my dad would say, "Let's clean your glasses."

I'd sit in the chair by his and he'd rummage through the drawers in his table and he'd pull out all of the things he needed to clean mine and his glasses and he'd really make it into a big deal. But as he did that he'd explain why I couldn't have whatever it was or he'd explain what I needed to do to in order to be able to go or get what it was I wanted.

Reaching over and turning on the lamp I'd pass him my glasses and he'd clean them so thoroughly all the while explaining to me so patiently while I was still chomping at the bit and bucking and squealing and by the time he had those glasses cleaned, I'd be calmed down for either the Yes or the No and when I looked through my clean glasses I was Looking Through Clean Glasses and understood.

Listening to the music, looking through clean glasses and pointing to the cassette deck next to him I remember him telling me, "Carl Orff.." and then he'd clean his glasses.

Fuzzy12
03-27-17, 10:08 PM
Right about the time I was ready to throw an all out fit over something I wanted to do or wanted to have, you name it, my dad would say, "Let's clean your glasses."

I'd sit in the chair by his and he'd rummage through the drawers in his table and he'd pull out all of the things he needed to clean mine and his glasses and he'd really make it into a big deal. But as he did that he'd explain why I couldn't have whatever it was or he'd explain what I needed to do to in order to be able to go or get what it was I wanted.

Reaching over and turning on the lamp I'd pass him my glasses and he'd clean them so thoroughly all the while explaining to me so patiently while I was still chomping at the bit and bucking and squealing and by the time he had those glasses cleaned, I'd be calmed down for either the Yes or the No and when I looked through my clean glasses I was Looking Through Clean Glasses and understood.

Listening to the music, looking through clean glasses and pointing to the cassette deck next to him I remember him telling me, "Carl Orff.." and then he'd clean his glasses.
Carmina burAna?

mildadhd
03-27-17, 11:06 PM
I still get time outs

Its not like we are saints.

We still have to work on things everyday, and have our own challenges, like everyone else.

In my experience, a concept of daily discipline that keeps the parent-child relationship priority, is a much more productive concept of discipline, than a concept of discipline that does not.

Like Fuzzy12 wrote, the parent-child relationship is about promoting feelings of safety and security, etc.






m

mildadhd
03-28-17, 12:14 AM
When I wrote, "We", in my last post I meant, Me and my Son are not saints.

I feel daily supervised free play is the most productive concept of any discipline, not to mention fun.

I found our discussion walking to and from the park also very rewarding side effect of supervised free play.

My childhood development was more unnatural peer-peer relationship oriented.

My son's childhood development was less peer oriented, more natural parent-child relationship oriented.








m

Little Missy
03-28-17, 07:29 AM
Carmina burAna?

In one case that I remember so clearly of the Glasses Cleaning Ritual, yes it was. :)

Fuzzy12
03-28-17, 07:42 AM
Its not like we are saints.

We still have to work on things everyday, and have our own challenges, like everyone else.

In my experience, a concept of daily discipline that keeps the parent-child relationship priority, is a much more productive concept of discipline, than a concept of discipline that does not.

Like Fuzzy12 wrote, the parent-child relationship is about promoting feelings of safety and security, etc.






m
So I wonder how promoting feelings of security aids the development of particular executive function. Or is it more that a good attachment in general provides a healthy environment for a child to develop self regulation?

What do you mean by free play?

Fuzzy12
03-28-17, 07:45 AM
In one case that I remember so clearly of the Glasses Cleaning Ritual, yes it was. :)

Your description paints such a warm and beautiful picture. Love it!!!

Though somehow Im having trouble imagining Carmina burAna playing in the background. It's too loud and restless (even if beautiful) to fit into this peaceful scene. ..:lol:

Little Missy
03-28-17, 08:21 AM
Your description paints such a warm and beautiful picture. Love it!!!

Though somehow Im having trouble imagining Carmina burAna playing in the background. It's too loud and restless (even if beautiful) to fit into this peaceful scene. ..:lol:

I know! Very intense. I had my glasses cleaned a lot through the years. Or, he'd have me in the garage while he explained the mechanics of a V8 engine. He always knew how to bring me back to earth.

My mum would drive me to the mall as fast as we could for shopping and lunch. They each had their own way to shut me down!

Letching Gray
03-28-17, 08:28 AM
Over the last 20 years, I have worked with all kinds of kids. I love kids. I love having fun with them, tons of nutty, silly, goofy fun and then some. When I get carried away, they more often than not give me a time out.

Fuzzy12
03-28-17, 09:45 AM
Over the last 20 years, I have worked with all kinds of kids. I love kids. I love having fun with them, tons of nutty, silly, goofy fun and then some. When I get carried away, they more often than not give me a time out.

Aww..Fuzzling is just 7 months old now but when I do something she doesn't approve of she is very good at disciplining me....showing me the errors of my ways. Ajd then I try not to do it again or do it differently. She's training me!! :D

Luvmybully
03-28-17, 01:12 PM
So I wonder how promoting feelings of security aids the development of particular executive function. Or is it more that a good attachment in general provides a healthy environment for a child to develop self regulation?

What do you mean by free play?

Yes, a good attachment in general provides a healthy environment for a child to develop self regulation.

When a child feels safe and secure, they explore, take chances. They have more confidence in their environment. They are less overwhelmed by the emotions new situations bring out. And I am talking about babies, toddlers, young pre-schoolers.



Free play means to me: child directed, non structured, adult guidance minimal (mostly only when a safety issue arises).

Letching Gray
03-28-17, 06:24 PM
Some deny ADHD is a biologically based disorder. Instead, they insist it is the result of bad parenting and the absence of a father figure. To many of these folks, ADHD is a cleverly disguised ruse created and promulgated by greedy, dishonest criminals (doctors) who share an enormous bed with Big Pharma. It is all a massive conspiracy on par with Colombian drug cartels. They ask for evidence it is anything other than that, because, they maintain, there isn't one biologically based test proving otherwise.

There are many highly sophisticated, hi-tech, cutting edge, imaging tests that prove that those diagnosed (properly) with ADHD have a variety of significant brain differences compared to the non-ADHD population. The genetic component is unmistakable, as well.

"Poor" parenting and absent dads doesn't help. Loving and wise parents, using common sense and being informed about ADHD, can only be beneficial for ADHD kids. But, with biological differences, one's executive functioning, maturing at an age appropriate rate, etc. will be impacted.

I believe, as some have mentioned, that some parents are simply better at conveying love to their kids than others. Just as some people are more artistic, some more athletic, what have you, loving kids in convincing ways seems to be like an endowed trait, but this in no way suggests that we can't improve in this area.

I'd like to see a school specializing in this kind of education. Giving instruction and feedback to parents to help improve parenting skills would be cool.

Fuzzy12
03-28-17, 07:13 PM
The national health service here offers 2 free antenatal classes. They mainly discuss pregnancy and labour but also touch upon post natal care. They have also published an impressively comprehensive and high quality book on everything maternity related from pregnancy to postnatal care. In addition you get a million leaflets about everything.

They all stress a few basic but important points, eg always attend to your baby's needs ideally before they start crying, babies can't be spoilt by picking them up or cuddling them, lots of skin contact, never shake your baby, where to get support when you can't deal anymore, etc. And there are so.many different services you can call or visit to ask questions or get support.

Everything postnatally I've seen relates to the first year but if there's even just half the amount of support and information available as there is during pregnancy and for the first year it should make for slightly easier parenting (I'm pretty sure though there isn't).

On a side note I was absolutely gobsmacked at how good maternity care is especially compared to every other service but especially mental health. It just really shows how well things can work if you invest enough funding, integrate services do they work seemingly and employ people who actually care.

Hopefully all these resources they invest means fewer people will require mental health care because if you do then you are screwed.

Sorry I had a point. I hope it didn't get lost in my rant.

My point was that the nhs actually does try to educate new parents on how to parent...to a fair extent.



Some deny ADHD is a biologically based disorder. Instead, they insist it is the result of bad parenting and the absence of a father figure. To many of these folks, ADHD is a cleverly disguised ruse created and promulgated by greedy, dishonest criminals (doctors) who share an enormous bed with Big Pharma. It is all a massive conspiracy on par with Colombian drug cartels. They ask for evidence it is anything other than that, because, they maintain, there isn't one biologically based test proving otherwise.

There are many highly sophisticated, hi-tech, cutting edge, imaging tests that prove that those diagnosed (properly) with ADHD have a variety of significant brain differences compared to the non-ADHD population. The genetic component is unmistakable, as well.

"Poor" parenting and absent dads doesn't help. Loving and wise parents, using common sense and being informed about ADHD, can only be beneficial for ADHD kids. But, with biological differences, one's executive functioning, maturing at an age appropriate rate, etc. will be impacted.

I believe, as some have mentioned, that some parents are simply better at conveying love to their kids than others. Just as some people are more artistic, some more athletic, what have you, loving kids in convincing ways seems to be like an endowed trait, but this in no way suggests that we can't improve in this area.

I'd like to see a school specializing in this kind of education. Giving instruction and feedback to parents to help improve parenting skills would be cool.

namazu
03-28-17, 09:11 PM
I'd like to see a school specializing in this kind of education. Giving instruction and feedback to parents to help improve parenting skills would be cool.
For what it's worth, there are programs like this -- both general parent education, and also ADHD-specific programs.

For example, CHADD offers parent training courses online. I don't know how the curriculum was devised, nor how frequently they update it to reflect new developments in child development, but it may be a good start for people who feel really clueless when it comes to parenting a kid with ADHD. Unfortunately, these courses are pricey -- but simliar information is available for free elsewhere online.

For more general early childhood (and not-so-early childhood) parenting advice and feedback, there are often courses and workshops offered by hospitals, libraries, and other organizations.

In some cases, university medical centers offer this type of training, and may also conduct clinical trials comparing different types of parenting interventions.

mildadhd
03-29-17, 01:36 AM
So I wonder how promoting feelings of security aids the development of particular executive function. Or is it more that a good attachment in general provides a healthy environment for a child to develop self regulation?


The unconditional relationship both promotes a healthy environment and the development of executive functions. (this is a general rule, with the possibility of more individually specific exceptions)

Consistent insecure feelings lessen the number and density of dopamine neurones. (this is a general rule, with the possibility of more individually specific exceptions)

Consistent secure feelings promote the number and density of dopamine neurones. (this is a general rule, with the possibility of more individually specific exceptions)


m

sarahsweets
03-29-17, 04:05 AM
:grouphug:

I hope they are resilient. I'd like to believe that but I'm not sure.

Strangely I've found that there's a lot of pressure (gp, midwives, health visitors, other moms) on just knowing what to do instinctively. I feel as if I'm somehow just automatically supposed to do the right thing. I don't. The other moms somehow seem to know exactly what to do and how to do it. With some things yes I can wing it amd I'm winging it well but with others I'm happy to learn about it.

Sorry mild..back to the topic now.

Yes, I get this. I hope I didnt add to your pressure by insinuating that you should darn well know what you should do in all mommy situations. Certain things are inherent instinct and thats what I meant. Your fuzzling cries and you go to her to see what the issue is. You might not know if she is crying cause she is hungry, dirty, sad, in pain or whatever but instinctually you know you need to go to her and see whats wrong. Your instinct might be to try feeding her and it could be that she is not hungry but your instinct might be to try. When it comes to the less obvious stuff, I learned through trial and error and by the second and third babies I felt like I knew enough to work off better instincts. I like to call this "learned instinct". You learn it by chance or trial and then you know to try those things if the same issues popup.I felt like a second class citizen because I couldnt breastfeed. I tried but for each kid and a different issue it didnt work. I want to lacatation consultants and everything and remember talking to some of the other new moms about having to switch to formula and seeing their little "tsk tsk" as if I wanted to fail at breastfeeding. I had to learn that some women are the kind of moms that could strap their babies on and get a million things done and have perfect happy babies- and some like me had to wing it and learn that way.

Little Missy
03-29-17, 09:45 AM
Your description paints such a warm and beautiful picture. Love it!!!

Though somehow Im having trouble imagining Carmina burAna playing in the background. It's too loud and restless (even if beautiful) to fit into this peaceful scene. ..:lol:

South Pacific Overture, Nutcracker Arabian Dance...

Letching Gray
03-29-17, 10:14 AM
The national health service here offers 2 free antenatal classes. They mainly discuss pregnancy and labour but also touch upon post natal care. They have also published an impressively comprehensive and high quality book on everything maternity related from pregnancy to postnatal care. In addition you get a million leaflets about everything.

They all stress a few basic but important points, eg always attend to your baby's needs ideally before they start crying, babies can't be spoilt by picking them up or cuddling them, lots of skin contact, never shake your baby, where to get support when you can't deal anymore, etc. And there are so.many different services you can call or visit to ask questions or get support.

Everything postnatally I've seen relates to the first year but if there's even just half the amount of support and information available as there is during pregnancy and for the first year it should make for slightly easier parenting (I'm pretty sure though there isn't).

On a side note I was absolutely gobsmacked at how good maternity care is especially compared to every other service but especially mental health. It just really shows how well things can work if you invest enough funding, integrate services do they work seemingly and employ people who actually care.

Hopefully all these resources they invest means fewer people will require mental health care because if you do then you are screwed.

Sorry I had a point. I hope it didn't get lost in my rant.

My point was that the nhs actually does try to educate new parents on how to parent...to a fair extent.

Great stuff fuzz. Wow!

Letching Gray
03-29-17, 10:18 AM
For what it's worth, there are programs like this -- both general parent education, and also ADHD-specific programs.

For example, CHADD offers parent training courses online. I don't know how the curriculum was devised, nor how frequently they update it to reflect new developments in child development, but it may be a good start for people who feel really clueless when it comes to parenting a kid with ADHD. Unfortunately, these courses are pricey -- but simliar information is available for free elsewhere online.

For more general early childhood (and not-so-early childhood) parenting advice and feedback, there are often courses and workshops offered by hospitals, libraries, and other organizations.

In some cases, university medical centers offer this type of training, and may also conduct clinical trials comparing different types of parenting interventions.

:thankyou::thankyou::thankyou::thankyou::grouphug: :grouphug::grouphug:

Cool. Thanks Nam! Dig it!

You know what I think: hugs baby hugs. hug your kids

Letching Gray
03-29-17, 10:24 AM
BTW, do you guys HAVE to do a better job expressing what I'm trying to say, ALL THE TIME? It is called "stealing one's thunder" and it isn't very nice. (just kidding).

we need smiley faces for fresh comments and edits, no?

Fuzzy12
03-29-17, 01:16 PM
BTW, do you guys HAVE to do a better job expressing what I'm trying to say, ALL THE TIME? It is called "stealing one's thunder" and it isn't very nice. (just kidding).

we need smiley faces for fresh comments and edits, no?

'Hug your kids' puts it pretty well!! :)

Letching Gray
03-29-17, 05:57 PM
You know what's cool? The power of touch. It's amazing, isn't it? It's incredible what touching can do for people. If you want my stereo, car and my wallet, just rub my back for 5 minutes and it all belongs to you. Take everything. I'm in la la land for hours.

Not everyone responds favorably, I know, but for those of us who do, name your price.

What I'm actually trying to say is, be sensitive to your child and if he/she seems to appreciate hugs and purely appropriate, gentle touching, it may be an effective means of communicating loving tenderness. Now, mother wasn't allowed to touch me, and she didn't want to anyway, but I think it would have been therapeutic for me if she had done so, but only if she could manage it out of unfeigned love. The few times she did have to touch me, to apply a bandage or whatever, I could feel her discomfort. That just made me feel nervous, wondering why she found me to be a source of agitation.

sarahsweets
03-31-17, 05:16 AM
You know what's cool? The power of touch. It's amazing, isn't it? It's incredible what touching can do for people. If you want my stereo, car and my wallet, just rub my back for 5 minutes and it all belongs to you. Take everything. I'm in la la land for hours.

Not everyone responds favorably, I know, but for those of us who do, name your price.

What I'm actually trying to say is, be sensitive to your child and if he/she seems to appreciate hugs and purely appropriate, gentle touching, it may be an effective means of communicating loving tenderness. Now, mother wasn't allowed to touch me, and she didn't want to anyway, but I think it would have been therapeutic for me if she had done so, but only if she could manage it out of unfeigned love. The few times she did have to touch me, to apply a bandage or whatever, I could feel her discomfort. That just made me feel nervous, wondering why she found me to be a source of agitation.

I dont know why, but I could swear that I read something somewhere on about studies on babies that were not held very much vs babies that are. I think it was something like, the babies that were held have lower instances of illness and emotional issues. Does that sound familiar to anyone? It kinda makes sense in a way.

Letching Gray
03-31-17, 07:15 AM
I dont know why, but I could swear that I read something somewhere on about studies on babies that were not held very much vs babies that are. I think it was something like, the babies that were held have lower instances of illness and emotional issues. Does that sound familiar to anyone? It kinda makes sense in a way.

Me too. I think they are likely to suffer from "failure to thrive." We are talking touch here, not nutrition, or antibiotics or vaccinations or hygiene--touch. I saw a piece on monkeys that went berzerk w/o a loving presence in their cages. Even a soft towel was helpful vs nothing at all.

Little Missy
03-31-17, 07:34 AM
I held my daughter so much I wore the fabric off of the left arm of the chair. :)

mildadhd
03-31-17, 01:04 PM
My favorite place to be, is the place in between the relationship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjfpGGOGDCo&app=desktop