View Full Version : Why is there an ADHD medicine with the word Meth in it???


MillenniumMan
06-09-05, 02:53 PM
Methylin??? that's a weird name for an ADHD medicine.
It makes it sound like it's meth...weird...
let's dicuss Methylin...the name itself is somewhat odd...
I don't trust it...maybe Methylin should be took off the market...

Gregster
06-10-05, 12:21 PM
I guess because the drug in the pill is methylphenidate?
The "meth" prefix can also indicates a certain type of molecule - dextro-amphetamine, levo-amphetamine and meth-amphetamine are all variations of the amphetamine molecule, with coresponding variations in strength and effectiveness.
By the way, there is nothing inhearently wrong with meth-amphetamine, if used properly. It has been available as a treatment for ADHD until recently, when it's manufacturer decided to drop production due to poor sales and hassles associated with producing a drug that is so commonly abused. The reason methamphetamine has such a bad reputation has to do with the fact that it happens to be the molecule that people who are so inclined can manufacture in a "bathtub" lab - it's no worse than dextroamphetamine, it's just available illicitly and so is more commonly abused.

MillenniumMan
06-10-05, 02:00 PM
oh I see...you know what would be awesome
a herbal stimulant that is 101% safe and is effective,
very potent of course. I know but Methylin...
still sounds like it's a form of meth...
which btw...if it is...meth is very bad for a person.

Gregster
06-11-05, 11:11 AM
You are not likely to see any new stimulant medication - "herbal" or otherwise - any time soon. The products that I have heard of "in the pipeline" are all different delivery systems which center around the same basic molecules. One, for example, doesn't activate until it has been through the digestive tract, which makes it impossible for people to abuse it via snorting - but it's still an amphetamine.
Interestingly, many psychotropic drugs share the same basic chemical framework. Anti-histamines, like psuedosphedrine, amphetamines, methylphenidate and I think benzodiazapines are very much alike with subtle chemical differences changing the way they act in the brain. You can use a house key as an analogy - all of the keys that fit a lock (i.e. the brain and specifically the neurons in the brain) have the same shape - the same grooves, the length, etc. - except for the little jagged part on one side that locate the pins in the tumbler and open the lock, and they make a big difference. Drugs work similarly, of course with considerably more complexity.
It should be noted that "herbal" doesn't make anything "better". This is all organic chemistry and whether a chemical physically comes out of a plant or if it's originally a plant molecule that's synthesized or modified makes no difference to your brain - unless it's a psychosomatic difference. Cocaine is "herbal". It's safe when your doctor uses it as an anasthetic, but not so good when you smoke large amounts of it as "crack". The same is true of methamphetamine. You must remember that almost nothing is safe if you take 100 or 1000 times as much as recommended, as meth-heads often do - try drinking 1000 times as much water as recommended and see what happens (don't actually try this, as drinking this much water WILL kill you).

MillenniumMan
06-11-05, 09:24 PM
wow, what a post!
thanks what you told me was very intellectual.

hellothere
07-01-05, 10:47 PM
get over it.....:cool:

Scattered
08-30-05, 12:14 AM
You are not likely to see any new stimulant medication - "herbal" or otherwise - any time soon. The products that I have heard of "in the pipeline" are all different delivery systems which center around the same basic molecules. One, for example, doesn't activate until it has been through the digestive tract, which makes it impossible for people to abuse it via snorting - but it's still an amphetamine.
Interestingly, many psychotropic drugs share the same basic chemical framework. Anti-histamines, like psuedosphedrine, amphetamines, methylphenidate and I think benzodiazapines are very much alike with subtle chemical differences changing the way they act in the brain. You can use a house key as an analogy - all of the keys that fit a lock (i.e. the brain and specifically the neurons in the brain) have the same shape - the same grooves, the length, etc. - except for the little jagged part on one side that locate the pins in the tumbler and open the lock, and they make a big difference.
Interesting, Gregster! I wonder if that similar chemical makeup is why when I take certain antihistamines (in addition to my Concerta) that I can focus like crazy and get a great deal done. I only take them when I need to for allergies (and I checked with the pharmacy first to be sure there was no problem with taking both), but wow -- what a difference. I wasn't sure whether it was the fact that I just thought more clearly when my allergies were better controlled or that the antihistamines actually act directly on the AD/HD itself. Anyway thanks for your informative post.

Scattered

UnleashTheHound
08-30-05, 12:53 PM
It should be noted that "herbal" doesn't make anything "better". This is all organic chemistry and whether a chemical physically comes out of a plant or if it's originally a plant molecule that's synthesized or modified makes no difference to your brain - unless it's a psychosomatic difference. Cocaine is "herbal". It's safe when your doctor uses it as an anasthetic, but not so good when you smoke large amounts of it as "crack". The same is true of methamphetamine. You must remember that almost nothing is safe if you take 100 or 1000 times as much as recommended, as meth-heads often do - try drinking 1000 times as much water as recommended and see what happens (don't actually try this, as drinking this much water WILL kill you).
That is something that bugs me, why if something is labeled 'all natural', 'herbal' or whatever, some people automatically assume that it's better (or safe, when it sometimes isn't). There's plenty of 'all natural' ingrediants that can kill you, not to mention all the impurities, molds, germs etc.

neuroangel
09-07-05, 03:44 PM
I agree. A lot of these herbal remedies don't even put a warning on the bottle. Some things that are readily available that can permantly injure or cause death in overdoses or allergic reactions: Belladonna (for sleep), Yohimbine (for male enhancement, depression, or energy), and my fav. all of the cold sore and jock itch creams. Corticosteroids are in these creams and can be very dangerous. I know that's off topic...but was just giving examples of herbal stuff and man-made corticosteriods to show that these things shouldn't be taken likely. Anyway, sorry for rambling.

Cyndi

That is something that bugs me, why if something is labeled 'all natural', 'herbal' or whatever, some people automatically assume that it's better (or safe, when it sometimes isn't). There's plenty of 'all natural' ingrediants that can kill you, not to mention all the impurities, molds, germs etc.

mctavish23
09-07-05, 04:20 PM
There has been NO herbal or nutritional supplement that has EVER been found to work as a clinical treatment for ADHD, in 30+ years of research.

Dave123
10-05-05, 02:53 AM
Methylin??? that's a weird name for an ADHD medicine.
It makes it sound like it's meth...weird...
let's dicuss Methylin...the name itself is somewhat odd...
I don't trust it...maybe Methylin should be took off the market...

Focalin (http://www.focalin.com) was originally named Ritadex before final approval, and FDA required a name change because of the potential for dispensing errors. Maybe there is a different rule in place for these "branded" generic drugs.

Trooper Keith
10-05-05, 02:43 PM
Interesting, Gregster! I wonder if that similar chemical makeup is why when I take certain antihistamines (in addition to my Concerta) that I can focus like crazy and get a great deal done. I only take them when I need to for allergies (and I checked with the pharmacy first to be sure there was no problem with taking both), but wow -- what a difference. I wasn't sure whether it was the fact that I just thought more clearly when my allergies were better controlled or that the antihistamines actually act directly on the AD/HD itself. Anyway thanks for your informative post.

Scattered


Pseudoephedrine is a stimulant, not an antihistamine. It's used as a decongestant, often in conjunction with antihistamines. Interestingly, though, as Gregster said, it's very similar to amphetamine. In fact, it's only one hydroxy molecule different. If you stick another HO onto the pseudoephedrine, it is amphetamine. And, it's relatively easy to do it. People do it in basement labs all the time. Those that don't blow themselves up, that is, since I believe people usually free the Hydroxy from gasoline or turpentine.

This is the reason Sudafed and other products containing pseudoephedrine are becoming semi-controlled. In WV and OH, and likely other states, you have to buy Sudafed from the pharmacy window, and we take your Social Security Number, Driver's License Number, etc. We track to ensure that you haven't purchased more than 9g in a month. In fact, only a Pharmacist or a Certified Pharmacy Technician can sell this in WV and OH.

BUGZAPPERS
12-06-05, 01:23 AM
Yeah, I self medicated with sudafed for a very long time. I took one pill a day, or every other day. Was cheap and reliable. What is the closest RX to sudafed without the antihistamine properties.

BUGZAPPERS
12-13-05, 11:57 PM
makes you wonder why there is a soft drink with the label COKE on it. It kills me how this world really works.

Jackattack
04-25-06, 07:53 AM
This post is truly sad how can anyone want to get something made illegal before even knowing about the drug itself just because of the name?

miamicanes
04-25-06, 09:07 AM
IMO, the overwhelming majority of Americans who say they want something that's "Herbal" or "All-Natural" could care less about either trait... what they REALLY mean is that they want something they can buy without the cost, bother, and inconvenience of a prescription... which, in the US, usually means "Herbal" and "All-Natural".

Personally, I'm still pi55ed at the FDA for denying Pleconaril's approval. They UNANIMOUSLY agreed that it effectively pulled the plug on a common cold and stopped it dead in its tracks, then refused to approve it because they didn't like the idea of people taking prescription drugs for something nobody actually dies from and because it slightly increased the odds of oral birth control failure among women. Ba5tard5. I sneeze in their general direction...

nzkiwi
12-05-06, 03:38 AM
I agree, many americans think that just because it's natural it's safe. Radiation is natural, WOW! Seriously,Kava is a herb, it can potentially cause liver damage.:(

lars
12-13-06, 08:30 PM
makes you wonder why there is a soft drink with the label COKE on it. It kills me how this world really works.
The reason you see "Coke" on the label for Coca Cola is because the product actually contains coca leaf extract, albeit decocainized coca leaves these days. You can think of decocainized coca leaves in the same light that you might think of decaffeinated coffee beans. By that I mean that they certainlly carry the flavor of the plant, but not the "punch" of the plant if you will.

Initially when it was developed in 1886, Coca Cola used the regular coca leaves for their coca leaf extract which created much more of a stimulating and euphoric product than is found today (obviously). As far as I know, Coca Cola is the only company that is allowed to possess decocainized coca leaves. It's an integral component of their "secret formula," which IMO is what gives Coca Cola it's distinctive character among its competitors.

Jackinbox
12-13-06, 11:41 PM
To correct Gregster, Desoxyn (Methamphetamine) remains available for ADHD in the US. It's the time-release form that has been removed from the market.

SuuzzeeeeQ
11-05-07, 01:34 PM
oh I see...you know what would be awesome
a herbal stimulant that is 101% safe and is effective,
very potent of course. I know but Methylin...
still sounds like it's a form of meth...
which btw...if it is...meth is very bad for a person.

Yes, "meth" is very bad for a person as when it's manufactured in "meth labs" it's made with drain cleaners and all sorts of awful stuff. I am sure the manufactured Methylin would not be made with the caustic chemicals. I would hope not, anyway...

blueroo
11-07-07, 07:37 AM
The reason you see "Coke" on the label for Coca Cola is because the product actually contains coca leaf extract, albeit decocainized coca leaves these days. You can think of decocainized coca leaves in the same light that you might think of decaffeinated coffee beans. By that I mean that they certainlly carry the flavor of the plant, but not the "punch" of the plant if you will.

Initially when it was developed in 1886, Coca Cola used the regular coca leaves for their coca leaf extract which created much more of a stimulating and euphoric product than is found today (obviously). As far as I know, Coca Cola is the only company that is allowed to possess decocainized coca leaves. It's an integral component of their "secret formula," which IMO is what gives Coca Cola it's distinctive character among its competitors.

Even when Coca Cola was using pure coca in its formula, there wasn't much in the way of psychoactive results to worry about. The quantities used were small, and Food Network told me that it took 6 and a half quarts of coca cola to really start getting any stimulant effect from it. :)

gh342000
12-22-07, 04:25 PM
Yes, "meth" is very bad for a person as when it's manufactured in "meth labs" it's made with drain cleaners and all sorts of awful stuff. I am sure the manufactured Methylin would not be made with the caustic chemicals. I would hope not, anyway...
You are mixing up Methylin and methamphetamine. Methylin is methylphenidate not "meth". "Meth" is the street slang for methamphetamine with is also the prescription drug Desoxyn.

The drain cleaner reference is misleading. This is the drug war propaganda speaking. The drain cleaner NaOH "sodium hydroxide" is used to increase the ph during synthisis, it is not just mixed in to the final result. HaOH is used in the lab all the time when an increase in ph is required.

Also, keep in mind that if you mix sodium hydroxide and muriatic acid the result is salt water which theoretically you can drink.

lars
12-22-07, 04:34 PM
"Meth" is the street slang for methamphetamine with is also the prescription drug Desoxyn.Actually, Desoxyn is not the same thing as methamphetamine, anymore than Dexedrine is the same thing as amphetamine.

Both Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine), and Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) are each single isomer drugs. The parent drugs (methamphetamine & amphetamine respectively) from which they both sprung were each racemic drugs containing both dextro and levo isomers.

The difference in effect between these two single isomer drugs, and their racemic parent drugs is reported to be quite stark among those who have tried them both.

gh342000
12-26-07, 07:38 PM
Actually, Desoxyn is not the same thing as methamphetamine, anymore than Dexedrine is the same thing as amphetamine.

Both Desoxyn (dextromethamphetamine), and Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) are each single isomer drugs. The parent drugs (methamphetamine & amphetamine respectively) from which they both sprung were each racemic drugs containing both dextro and levo isomers.

The difference in effect between these two single isomer drugs, and their racemic parent drugs is reported to be quite stark among those who have tried them both.

Now I am confused. I knew that Dexedrine was "dextroamphetamine HCL" (because it says that on the prescription bottle) but why does the label on the Desoxyn prescription say "methamphetamine hydrochloride" instead of "dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride"?

I was under the assumption that the two terms were not interchangeable since they are different compounds.

lars
12-26-07, 10:08 PM
Now I am confused. I knew that Dexedrine was "dextroamphetamine HCL" (because it says that on the prescription bottle) but why does the label on the Desoxyn prescription say "methamphetamine hydrochloride" instead of "dextromethamphetamine hydrochloride"?

I was under the assumption that the two terms were not interchangeable since they are different compounds.Don't worry, you're not the only one confused.

I am trying to get into medical school, and I have yet to meet a pharmacist or doctor that knows why this is either.

I guess if you wanted to you could contact the manufacturer for an oficial answer concerning this.

Upon taking organic chemistry I learned how (S) and (R) are often used when referring to dextro & levo stereoisomers. For example the product insert found here:
http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2007/005378s026lbl.pdf
states that, "DESOXYN® (methamphetamine hydrochloride tablets) chemically known as (S)-N, a-dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride...,"

In organic chemistry I learned that what are often referred to as (S) and (R) isomers, include the dextro and levo isomers that I was already familiar with. Granted, I still have quite a ways to go with organic chem, and at this time I am only half way through my organic education. However, even though I might not be the best person to explain a proper answer to your great question, I can point you in the right direction.


At link below I read the following information under the heading 'chirality:'

"The active salt of Desoxyn is dextro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrorotation)-methamphetamine hydrochloride. This is the right-hand isomer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomer) of methamphetamine bonded to hydrochloride. The left-handed isomer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levorotation) of methamphetamine, levomethamphetamine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levomethamphetamine), is less centrally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system) acting and more peripherally (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_nervous_system) acting; therefore no racemic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racemic) mixture of dextro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextrorotation)/levo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levorotation)-methamphetamine salts is in production."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoxyn

I hope that this helps answer your question, and if by chance you do contact the manufacturer, by all means please let us know what you find out.

QueensU_girl
12-26-07, 10:30 PM
re: Methylation in Chemistry

Methylation is a chemical process.

Methyl Groups are a big part of Chemistry!


Just like Phosphorylation or Acetylation, for example.

You are referring to the SLANG TERM for the "street drug" called Meth, I take it?


Read up on Chemistry?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl

lars
12-26-07, 10:48 PM
Methyl Groups are a big part of Chemistry! They sure are. Well said Emma. However, if anyone reading this does not have to take chemistry in college, I would suggest avoiding it. :o I find it to be riddled with many (not all) of the same kinds of academic 'snobs' that one might typically find in most of the upper college math classes. The material in most college chemistry classes can certainlly be very cool sometimes, but I would not be taking it if I did not have to due the chemistry 'snobs' who make me feel like an idiot for not being able to memorize an organic chem book. :o Maybe I will feel differently about it all after I finish the second half of organic chem.




You are referring to the SLANG TERM for the "street drug" called Meth, I take it? Is Desoxyn now legal in Canada?



Read up on Chemistry?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl Thanks, that's some good information.

Matt S.
12-26-07, 11:53 PM
Levomethamphetamine is an inactive isomer that is found in Vicks inhaler

gh342000
12-26-07, 11:57 PM
....

http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2007/005378s026lbl.pdf
states that, "DESOXYN® (methamphetamine hydrochloride tablets) chemically known as (S)-N, a-dimethylbenzeneethanamine hydrochloride...,"

....

Maybe they mispelled the drug name like the mispelling in their company web address in the above pdf. :D

Their address in the pdf is ovationpbarma.com instead of ovationpharma.com.

lars
12-27-07, 05:50 AM
Maybe they mispelled the drug name like the mispelling in their company web address in the above pdf. :D

I doubt it. ;)

lars
12-27-07, 05:52 AM
Levomethamphetamine is an inactive isomer that is found in Vicks inhaler

Actually levomethamphetamine is an active isomer, it's just not as active in the CNS (central nervous system) as the dextromethamphetamine is.

If it was not active, there would be no use for it in the Vick's inhaler for example.

Matt S.
12-27-07, 06:08 AM
Well that's what I meant