View Full Version : Snap-IV Test Scoring - What does it mean if teachers scores are under top 5% limit


frenchboyadhd
05-04-17, 07:18 PM
Hello,

We are in the process of having our child assessed for ADHD. It has taken years to get to this point as even though we were certain this was the explanation for our child's behaviors, the school disagreed saying there was absolutely nothing wrong with said child.

Finally after pushing the issue this year due to slipping grades and never ending calls about our child getting out of their chair during lessons, talking during class, losing required supplies and "laziness" during assignments, our family doctor referred us to a pediatrician. The pediatrician gave us SNAP-IV test sheets to be filled out by the teachers and ourselves.

Just received the SNAP-IV test sheets back from the school. While there was certainly some agreement among the four teachers, in other categories they were all over the map. Overall quite a few 2's, a few 3's and other rest 1's. I looked at the total and average scores for each category out of 9. Essentially teacher teacher gave him an average of 1.6 for both inattentive and hyperactivity sections. I see this falls well below what the sheet says the average should be to be diagnosed for either type. From you experience if the average from the snap-iv test results do not meet the minimum average does the doctor conclude your child does not meet the profile and therefore does not have ADHD?

Just curious as I want to be as well prepared as I can before heading into our next appointment. There was a question as to whether or not our child suffered from a learning disability/ADHD or a combination of both. We were pretty confident our child would fall into the combination grouping. Our child struggles severely with writing any sort of papers as they do not understand the process whatsoever and still cannot remember the phonics rules. Can read at grade level but cannot spell the words they can read. The ADHD symptoms have been obvious for years at home and have got so bad recently do to the struggles at school we have an to visit an emergency crisis centre to calm our child down (wanted to kill oneself).

Anyways .... any experience with the snap-iv scale results falling before the 5% cutoff would be greatly appreciated.

Lunacie
05-04-17, 08:28 PM
We used the Connor's evaluation, so I can't answer your question.

But I have a question of my own. Is your child a girl?

Teachers often underestimate the impact of these symptoms in girls.

Little Missy
05-04-17, 08:54 PM
You know what I think it means? I think you need to go over those teachers heads and have your doctor write a note.

sarahsweets
05-05-17, 03:45 AM
Are you planning on requesting accommodations from the school?

Caco3girl
05-05-17, 09:53 AM
I'm not sure you can average the questions out like that. I don't have experience with the Snap IV testing but usually each question says 0 = never, 1 = sometimes, 2 = often, 3 = usually, 4 = always.

Now if the question was, The child stays in his seat and they gave a 1 that would be what you would expect, but what if the question was the child looses his homework, and the value was a 4? My point is I don't think you can average them for an overall score.

Now let me say that I have a 14 year old ADHD son and a 7 year old ADHD daughter. I am not ADHD, but I am dyslexic. I have a rare form of dyslexia that wasn't diagnosed until I was almost failing out of college. Some experts call it "stealth dyslexia" because it doesn't present like the text books say dyslexia should present.

I have always read well, I can read out loud just as fast as I normally talk out loud, with no issues. However, my testing indicates that I spell at grade level 3.9....so not even fourth grade level. I am a wiz at math, I can see patterns and go step by step without any issues....but I can't tell clockwise and counterclockwise apart. If a watch face doesn't have at least the 12, 3, 6, and 9 on it forget it, I can't tell you what time it is. I come across as extremely intelligent, but don't drop me off a block from my house because it will take me FOREVER to find my way home. If I was given a paper to write I couldn't stay on point. The topic might be "A typical day at a Boardwalk" and while I would start off there I would deviate to describing sand, it's origins, it's uses...etc...I could not stay within the structure set out before me on how to write a paper, yet what I did write was written well, just not on topic.

Growing up these glitches where one minute I was freaking brilliant and the next minute I felt beyond stupid for not being able to do what first graders could do, caused me severe anxiety. I didn't know what it was, I didn't understand I had a medical condition, I just thought my brain didn't work. I have no training and I am sorry if this offends anyone, but I thought of it as being academic bi-polar. Huge swings in what I could do academically made it really hard and while I thought there was something wrong with me I didn't think it had a name...hope that makes sense.

The Mayo clinic defines dyslexia as:

"Dyslexia is a learning disorder characterized by difficulty reading due to problems identifying speech sounds and learning how they relate to letters and words."

The testing for dyslexia was very specific in seeing how my brain worked. How did I follow logical progressions, how did I overcome obstacles, how did my brain adapt...it was all very telling and I ended up with a moderate to severe dyslexia label. I was 19 at the time and not once did a school person say the word dyslexia...why....because I didn't flip my letters, I could read very well, and my math skills were awesome. I didn't fit the common definition of dyslexia. Perhaps neither does your child.

frenchboyadhd
05-05-17, 10:19 AM
Our child is a grade 6 boy. Yes we are seeking accommodations from the school. As they fail to recognize he has any learning problems we have been left with no solution but to spend hours each week sitting side by side him on writing assignments in order to get them done. Each sentence requires us to physically sound out the letter sounds in each word and prompt questions to get anything onto the paper. Honestly he does not have a clue where to start and when he does he quickly rushes through it to be done. The homework battles are endless unless it is math. It starts with refusal, starting it, becoming frustrated, to putting it down again, to him yelling/hitting and throwing things around the house. Honestly it is exhausting.

I'm not so sure they don't see the symptoms but more so they would rather ignore them. He is the class clown, a happy child, funny, helpful, lots of friends so that is what I usually hear. Plus we have found in his classes as long as he hands something in, which he always does and on time, he receives a passing grade. Doesn't really seem to matter if there is zero effort put into the work or if it is below grade level. It is just recently we have received complaints from his language teachers that he doesn't read during reading time (talking/telling jokes instead), writes 2 sentences on a written assignment in 45 minutes and that his desk is very disorganized. They keep on telling us it is simply due to "laziness" as clearly if he applied himself and is motivated like he is in his math and science classes he can do the work.

The questions they all agreed on with 2 or 3's (mostly 2's, a few 3's) on the snap-iv scale were:
1. often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork
2. often has difficultly sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
5. often has difficultly organizing tasks and activities
6. often avoids, dislikes, or reluctantly engages in tasks requiring sustained mental effort
7. often loses things necessary for activities
8. often is is distracted by external stimuli
10. often fidgets with hands or feet
11. often leaves seat in classroom when remaining seated is expected
14. often is "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
15. often talks excessively
22.often deliberately does things that annoy other people

We would agreed with all of these but would definitely score higher in some of the other areas. Also we would score much higher on the ODD questions (his grandparents also scored much higher in this area from their experiences with him).

From experience, do you know if the doctors or psychologists weigh the teachers or parents scores more? Obviously since a teacher may only spend an hour a day with our child, we think we have a much more accurate picture of his everyday life.

frenchboyadhd
05-05-17, 10:36 AM
Caco3girl - thank you so much for your detailed reply. Very reassuring as your symptoms and experiences pretty much sum up my son. We keep on being told he is a bright child, which we totally agreed with ... with just disagree with the school when it comes to his ability for the written language. We don't see it as laziness, trust me the child is lazy, we will be the first to admit it, rather we have witnessed first hand the difficulties written assignments pose to him. He is done before he starts and I truly believe it is because he honestly has no idea where to begin. The emotional roller coaster starts as soon as the paper is pulled out. The pediatrician feels much of the behavioral problems we experience at home are from years of anxiety build up in our son from being put in this situation. When he explained it, it completely made sense - we would all feel that way if we could understand our life on a daily basis. Also explains, while he certainly does exhibit the signs of ADHD, his behavior is night and day different on non-school days and when we don't have to tackle homework.

The school system simply believes if you can read, comprehend and do math at or above grade level, if can do everything else. If you can't it is due to a lack or motivation or laziness. We have developed a strategy of teaching him to memorize his spelling words for the week so he typically gets perfect on those tests. Of course they also see this as a reason to believe he has no problem. I find that quite funny seriously so the child can spell super long words but can't spell the simplest words of the likes of where, the, what, people etc. Yup, no problem there :)

Guess we will probably have to pay the $2000 out of pocket to get the psycho-educational testing done if we want to make any headway. Crazy but can't keep on letting him fall behind - exactly while he may still be passing now, we know that will not be sustainable through high school and post-secondary without some additional support.

Caco3girl
05-08-17, 09:21 AM
Caco3girl - thank you so much for your detailed reply. Very reassuring as your symptoms and experiences pretty much sum up my son. We keep on being told he is a bright child, which we totally agreed with ... with just disagree with the school when it comes to his ability for the written language. We don't see it as laziness, trust me the child is lazy, we will be the first to admit it, rather we have witnessed first hand the difficulties written assignments pose to him. He is done before he starts and I truly believe it is because he honestly has no idea where to begin. The emotional roller coaster starts as soon as the paper is pulled out. The pediatrician feels much of the behavioral problems we experience at home are from years of anxiety build up in our son from being put in this situation. When he explained it, it completely made sense - we would all feel that way if we could understand our life on a daily basis. Also explains, while he certainly does exhibit the signs of ADHD, his behavior is night and day different on non-school days and when we don't have to tackle homework.

The school system simply believes if you can read, comprehend and do math at or above grade level, if can do everything else. If you can't it is due to a lack or motivation or laziness. We have developed a strategy of teaching him to memorize his spelling words for the week so he typically gets perfect on those tests. Of course they also see this as a reason to believe he has no problem. I find that quite funny seriously so the child can spell super long words but can't spell the simplest words of the likes of where, the, what, people etc. Yup, no problem there :)

Guess we will probably have to pay the $2000 out of pocket to get the psycho-educational testing done if we want to make any headway. Crazy but can't keep on letting him fall behind - exactly while he may still be passing now, we know that will not be sustainable through high school and post-secondary without some additional support.

My advice, although it was not asked and feel free to ignore it, is to let it go for awhile and NOT help as much as you are.

1. The more knowledge he has the better the tests will show his weak areas. It's hard to show he is 2 years behind when 2 years ago he didn't know anything....the tests won't work if he can't show a deficit.

2. I was slow to catch onto things but once I did I was okay...since he is 6 he may just need an additional year or two to catch up. He may not ever fully catch up but again with more time the gap will be easier to tell and if he is diagnoses in 4th grade he won't be so behind that he can't catch up, trust me on this.

3. Stop helping SO much. This is something I had to learn the hard way too. I always helped my son, I was on top of everything, drilling him, stalking his teachers websites...etc...the school thought he was okay because he was passing but that was with extreme effort on my part and his. Once that was made clear to me I stopped, and he failed HARD, but it was only then the school paid attention and got him the accommodations he needed and now he is doing great completely on his own. I was going through the same thing with my daughter in second grade while dealing with my son in 9th grade and once I learned the lesson with him and stopped over helping her the school paid attention to her too, and she should have a much easier time than he did.

Ask the teacher how much time per night MAX it should take your child to do his homework, then set a timer. For my daughter it was taking us 1.5 hours to do the simple things and it got to the point that the minute it was homework time she had silent tears rolling down her face. When the teacher came back and said 20 minutes max that is ALL we did, and she was happier. Seeing what she couldn't do again helped them diagnose what her issues were. I'm not saying don't help your kid, but be there to answer questions, not walk them through it step by step, and there is a difference.

Your kid will fail...just resign yourself to that. But you can NOT be there with them through college, it's best to understand now what they can't do. Encourage, tell them they are smart and funny every day and that you love them and we will figure out this school stuff one day and in the mean time I just need you to try your best, that is what I really want from you. Not to be perfect, not to get them all right, I just need you to REALLY try. As long as you are really trying I will be okay with what ever grade you get.