View Full Version : Frustrations with pill doc. Need to vent.


psychopathetic
05-08-17, 10:21 PM
So I told my pill doc today that my current dose of adderall just isn't working for me anymore (2x 20mg extended in the morning with a 20mg instant later that day if needed). I've expressed this several other times with her in the past 4 or 5 months.

Well she's super closed to the idea of upping my dose past 60mg a day. She says that's the limit. I told her others take more than that daily and she asked me who. I told her that people on an adhd forum I'm on do, and she told me that they're either lying or taking them illegally and that no doctor would ever prescribe more than 60mg.

I don't know if she's right or wrong. I don't actually know if anyone here does have a legal prescription from a doctor for more than 60mg.

I am frustrated about it though.
I was very close to asking her what she thought about me seeking out a second opinion...but I held my tongue. I don't even know who I could possibly go to for one thing.

So then I started talking to her about switching things up and trying something else...that something's gotta happen because I'm absolutely miserable when I don't take higher doses of my adderall (I've been taking 80mg (double) of my extended release in the mornings...I've even had to take 40mg (again, double) of my instants a couple of times in the last month on top of that to get through a day.
It's a day and night difference when I'm on a good dose of adderall and when I'm not. I become so incredibly sluggish and tired and exhausted and depressed when I don't take it. Nothing gets done...I can spend an entire day in bed fighting to keep my eyes open, feeling super depressed and being really angry that I can't shake it off and feel awake and alert and ready to go.
Meanwhile I take the 80mg of extended, and 15-20 mins later...I'm up and moving, my mood is up (like it's an antidepressant) and things start getting done! It's amazing.

So if I can't take more than 60mg, then I want to search out other options in hopes that something else might help.

So I brought up dextroamphetamine to her. I've asked to try this several months ago because I was frustrated with my dose of adderall back then too...but she swore up and down that there was no such thing as dex. That it was the same thing as adderall.
But this time I was adamant. I told her I was absolutely positive that dex exists and was it's own completely separate medication. She looked at me like she thought I was trying to pull the wool over her eyes or something which made me a bit angry to be honest...cause it made me feel like she thought I was lying to her or something...or that I was an idiot who had no clue what he was talking about.

But she got on her smart phone and dinked around on it for a couple of minutes.
And then she found it. She called it something else, but I don't remember what...and said that dextroamphetamine was a generic name for it.

So I am glad she was able to find it and now knows I wasn't lying to her.

And she did agree to try me on it. I'll be taking 10mg 3 times a day...and we'll adjust as needed.

But another frustration...is as she was filling out the prescription, her tone of voice got real sharp and she became real serious (like a scolding mother) and she told me that I better never give any of these pills to anyone, and that if she found out I ever did she wouldn't hesitate to report me.
And I sat there like...WTF??? I have anxiety issues with these kinds of meds as it is...always afraid I'm becoming an addict, or becoming a pill seeker or something...and now she's thinking I'm selling my pills or something?

I told her that what she said upset me, and asked her if she doesn't trust me. She told me that she trusts me, it's just something she tells all of her patients. I told her what she said really made me feel conflicted.
She told me that these pills do have some real street value and that there's a lot of people who seek this stuff.
And I agreed...and stupid me, I even knew what some of my pills can sell for on the street and I told her. I mean I admit it...I google searched it many months ago. I had no intention of selling it, I wouldn't even think about it...but I was curious. I mean you hear about it all the time in news and stories...how college students take adderall to help them study...so I was just curious to how much the pills were worth.
Sometimes I think I'm too honest.
But that's what angers me about what she said. I AM so damn honest. And I have consistently been VERY open and honest with her since day 1. Some would argue...TOO honest with her.
I just...I didn't feel like I deserved that. Not in the tone she did it in...I'd hoped I'd gained more trust than that over the years with her :(.

Then finally as I was leaving...she said she's going to have to do more research on dex, and make sure she's not doing anything that can get her in trouble with me.

WTF does that even mean?

.......

Man. I love this woman. She's in her 70's, had an adult daughter who had ADHD and has in the past been one of the most absolutely accepting people I've ever met in my life. Like she has had zero negative judgments about me, she fully believed all my struggles and didn't dismiss any of them as being petty or anything, and was just such a genuinely loving person. She was put on this earth to do what she does...to help people.

She is my favorite medical person I've ever worked with in my life.

But damn...today's session was absolutely brutal on me. It felt like I was fighting her today. It was a hard session, when all my other sessions have been so easy and enjoyable and smooth in the past.
And I felt like I'm being bad somehow?
I'm not trying to manipulate her into doing anything she's not comfortable with. I'm not trying to be a dang drug seeker. It's just...freaking dang it...I know how much better I feel on proper doses of meds, so that when I don't have those meds and I'm not hardly functional and completely miserable...I long for those meds. Not the meds...but the awakefulness I feel, the clarity of mind, the ability to get up and moving...to get things started AND finished.
I'm so afraid I'm becoming an addict to pills or something. I feel shady even though I know those fears are irrational. I've time and time again proven to myself that I'm not...
But dang...today's session has my anxieties about this stuff flaring.

I don't like feeling like a bad person. I don't like fighting professionals that I have a great deal of respect for.

I just don't feel good. It's like I left that session feeling like I did something really bad in there...manipulated her or something.
But I don't think I did?

I'm just frustrated.

Plus it's been too long since I've posted a mountain sized post haha. Sometimes I just gotta spit these out!! :lol:


(((((((ADDF)))))))
Where would I be without this place to come and vent?

aur462
05-09-17, 02:17 AM
You're doctor is lying or ignorant - really, only 2 possibilities. My wife takes 70mg vyavanse and 45mg Adderall.


Dextro and Adderall, while sharing features, are different. Decex = CNS stim only vs Adderall = CNS and periperal nervous system stim. Dextro and pc Vyvanse work better and with fewer sides for me. Difference of Vyvanse and/or Dex is night/day for my biology which responds favorably. Aderall makes me anxious at a therapeautic dose.

Dex has been around for most your doc's life.

Fuzzy12
05-09-17, 02:43 AM
I don't know psycho. Like she said she probably just doesn't want to get into trouble and since she wasn't familiar with Dex maybe she felt a bit insecure prescribing it.

All the docs seem to have some sort of arbitrary maximum limit. My doc insisted that 25mg of dex I'd thr highest dose she could prescribe and that no one takes more.

Try not to take it personally. :grouphug:

psychopathetic
05-09-17, 08:16 AM
Try not to take it personally. :grouphug:

Thanks guys :)

and yeah, I was SUPER tired during our session and felt rather emotionally raw (hate how that happens when you're tired)...so that tiredness was tinting everything for me a bit in a negative way and I was more edgy then I typically am, so things that normally wouldn't mean a thing to me, were having more of an impact on me.
Not sure if that makes any sense lol.

Also, there was some very good things we discussed and that came out of our session yesterday as well. It wasn't all bad like I painted it here with my ramble above.

I just needed to vent. After posting this last night I felt SO much better.

Little Missy
05-09-17, 08:21 AM
Have you started the Dexedrine yet? How is the Latuda going?

psychopathetic
05-09-17, 08:25 AM
Have you started the Dexedrine yet? How is the Latuda going?

Not yet, I'll be dropping off the prescription later today.

Latuda...I'm not sure with. I haven't felt anything from it that I've noticed...and my doc was hoping it'd make me a bit tired and help with my sleep...but I haven't noticed this either cause...well...I'm ALWAYS super tired! lol >.<'
I'll run out in a little over a week, and she's interested if I'll notice any changes after running out. So we'll see.

Fuzzy12
05-09-17, 08:59 AM
I've never taken adderall do I can't compare but I loved dex
So much better than ritalin. It gave me a very smooth calm sort of clarity. You almost don't notice it. Well you don't notice it till you try to do something. I hope it will work equally well for you. We'll I've been off dex for more than a year now so maybe I'm just idealising it in retrospection.


I totally get by the way what you said about tiredness making you more emotional. I'm the same. I also.get more annoyed and angry when tired. Just yesterday I was so tired and annoyed that I kept thinking about all the things that could annoy me about hubby while the poor sod was downstairs scrubbing the kitchen and cooking a fantastic meal for us. :doh::lol:

Sorry I'm rambling. I've forgotten what my point was :scratch:

Pilgrim
05-09-17, 01:40 PM
I had the same experience. These people become important to us, and we rely on them.

When your not the best and you get a stiff arm from them. It hurts. Makes you question everything. Made me more careful for the next appointment. I had to examine the situation moment by moment.from memory it was something I was guilty about from a while ago.
And I was completely honest with the psyc. So I forgave myself.

aur462
05-10-17, 12:53 AM
I took 40 mg daily Dextro and liked it. As I've read, Vyvanse is essentially extended Dextro. After my last shrink "retired", I am working with the other shrink (ADHD specialized practice). He prescribed 60 mg Adderall (i had never taken as standalone) and to my surprise it made me anxious, and focus wasn't as good as I've expected. I took a spare Vyvanse I had around in lieu of my Adderall. It was "75%" better let's say; focus, follow-through, well-being all improved. Just an example of how nuanced it is.

A takeaway from this is that if you can afford, an ADHD specialist may be helpful if you're running into road blocks.

psychopathetic
05-10-17, 02:11 AM
A takeaway from this is that if you can afford, an ADHD specialist may be helpful if you're running into road blocks.

When I first discovered I was ADD I was seeing a talk therapist who was completely clueless with ADHD that really frustrated the heck out of me...but she's since switched careers.
I'm actually happy with the professionals in my life for the most part ATM.

I also live in a really small town, so am limited by who I can see without traveling to cities hours away.

I would be interested in sitting down with a professional who really knew what adhd is though.

aur462
05-10-17, 06:18 PM
I also live in a really small town, so am limited by who I can see without traveling to cities hours away.


I had this situation once and managed to travel 2ish hours or so. I guess it comes down to your ability to travel to the closest city of consequence/size. I live in DFW (Texas) and options are pretty broad. If you need care that's the least bit nuanced, I understand smaller towns can suck. The health care (generally) I've encountered since I've lived here too though has sucked until recently.

sarahsweets
05-16-17, 03:51 AM
I take 60mg of adderall xr a day with 2 10mg ir booster doses of dex-so a total of 80mg a day of amphetamines. Now, I have absorption issues so that might be why my doc is a little more understanding but still. I think the issue with her is the fact that she know you have experimented with higher doses of meds, and that in teeny-tiny technical terms you have misused the medication. No judgement here, I am just thinking thats what her issue is. I have been with my doc for 17 years and 3 years ago she started drug testing all her patients. She has only ever tested me once but I found it really disconcerting. She told me its about protecting herself. Maybe yours has had some DEA folks up her butt and she doesnt want to share that with you?
Either way, he ability does get my mind going because she didnt know dexedrine exists and that she is so stuck on 60mg a day.
If a cancer patient needed a higher dose of pain meds to get through chemo, I am sure a doctor would be willing to go beyond a mg limit. Granted adhd is not cancer but it was just an example I thought of.

Cyllya
05-22-17, 08:12 PM
How obnoxious.

I think 60mg-per-day is the amount that's been studied much and it's the max FDA recommendation. (Actually, I think they recommend 50mg/day as the max for treating ADHD.) So I can kind of sympathize with docs that refuse or hesitate to prescribe more, both for their own legal wellbeing and the patients' health. However, I'm pretty sure it's not actually illegal to prescribe more. Which is good, because a larger amount is good for some people.

But even sympathizing with that, there's no excuse for her bad attitude.

I wish there was more research on tolerance/tachyphylaxis of psych drugs for chronic conditions.

sarahsweets
05-24-17, 09:33 AM
FYI- 40mg is the recommended max for adhd, 60mg for narcolepsy.
Notice that its the "daily RECOMMENDED max which means ( in alot of cases) some government guys decided that they know more than doctors about everything and loosely based their guidelines on some studies but the sources and agencies doing these studied IMO are sometimes questionable. This does not take into account the variable of different people having unusual reactions to meds or doses. Basically if they decide that something is not typical, they say its wrong.

The good news is its "recommended" which means its not illegal for a doctor to go beyond that.

Lunacie
05-24-17, 01:29 PM
How obnoxious.

I think 60mg-per-day is the amount that's been studied much and it's the max FDA recommendation. (Actually, I think they recommend 50mg/day as the max for treating ADHD.) So I can kind of sympathize with docs that refuse or hesitate to prescribe more, both for their own legal wellbeing and the patients' health. However, I'm pretty sure it's not actually illegal to prescribe more. Which is good, because a larger amount is good for some people.

But even sympathizing with that, there's no excuse for her bad attitude.

I wish there was more research on tolerance/tachyphylaxis of psych drugs for chronic conditions.

I think that research has only been done on children, not on adults. So the
maximum recommendation is also for children, not adults. I'm not sure all
doctors take that into consideration.

psychopathetic
05-24-17, 01:56 PM
Now that I'm a solid 3 or 4 weeks without adderall (we switched to dextroamphetamine)...I'm really starting to appreciate that she didn't bump my dose of adderall any further.

I've come to realize that I was looking for more than adderall should be giving me. When I was doubling my doses...I was taking way too much. I don't feel too guilty about it, or like I was being a druggy...cause I wasn't getting high off the stuff, I was just looking to feel better (okay that SO sounded like something a druggy would say! lmao).
But dang...it was just too much! It was making me a little wired, and it was giving me too much energy at that high of a dose.
I'm just afraid I was heading down a long path that could've easily have led to some murky places. Places of tolerance, continuing to misuse and abuse my prescriptions in an attempt to 'feel good', addiction...etc. Places I very much so want to steer well clear of.

Now that I'm off adderall...I'm glad my doctor stuck to her guns. She was absolutely right, and my judgment at the time was clouded. I'm glad she didn't make that path an easy path to head down for me. I can't wait for our next section, so I can thank her.

sarahsweets
05-25-17, 06:39 AM
Now that I'm a solid 3 or 4 weeks without adderall (we switched to dextroamphetamine)...I'm really starting to appreciate that she didn't bump my dose of adderall any further.

I've come to realize that I was looking for more than adderall should be giving me. When I was doubling my doses...I was taking way too much. I don't feel too guilty about it, or like I was being a druggy...cause I wasn't getting high off the stuff, I was just looking to feel better (okay that SO sounded like something a druggy would say! lmao).
Im glad you switched. the way you were taking adderall could have been a slippery slope but you are not predisposed to be an addict like I am an alcoholic


Now that I'm off adderall...I'm glad my doctor stuck to her guns. She was absolutely right, and my judgment at the time was clouded. I'm glad she didn't make that path an easy path to head down for me. I can't wait for our next section, so I can thank her.

Its good that you have found an alternative that works for you.