View Full Version : Vyvanse: High dose, tolerance, withdrawal, quitting


ShootingStarX
05-15-17, 04:12 AM
Hi, long time lurker here.
Tl;dr at bottom (after all this is add forums, we need it :p)

I was been diagnosed with ADHD-PI about 9 months ago. Tried Ritalin. Hated it. Went onto Vyvanse. For a period of time it turned my life around! Started with 30mg, but that quickly became one and a half a day, then it became two a day and then all in the span of 2 months, I was being prescribed 70mg. 70mg was the sweet spot for a while. Energy, motivation, euphoria, sociability. I started taking a bit more every now and then and had tolerance breaks every now and then.

Cut to about 3 months ago. Life was going pretty badly and lots of stuff needed to get done. 70mg was now my minimum though most days would be 100-140. Now I'm productive af, doing more than 2 people could do in a day and more. ****! - there's still heaps of uni work to do though..

Cut 2 weeks. Now I'm at 210mg (3x 70mg) daily to keep up. On a few days I went to 280mg, on one day I consumed 350mg. Had no really bad side effects, just the usual unpleasant; jitteriness, bruxism, tachycardia, diaphoresis, xerostomia, reduced appetite and sometimes insomnia. However the comedowns - a f***ing nightmare; anxiety, depression, dysphoria, irritability, lack of focus, fatigue, and any sort of social interaction was the last thing on my mind. Luckily I get out of all those symptoms with my little valium pill.

Cut 4 weeks. I quit valium cold turkey and suddenly 200mg+ has no effect except increase heart rate. I was like "WTF that's so much Vyvanse, I should at least feel something!" Nope. F***ing valium withdrawals. I go through about 2 weeks of hell withdrawing, taking 70mg Vyvanse on some days, but most days, nothing at all.

A few days of experimenting with 30mg DXM doses for tolerance. No improvement. Chelated magnesium doesn't seem to help either.

2 weeks of the worst of the withdrawals are over. Back to 100mg+ of Vyvanse a day. It's barely doing anything now though. Take cap, motivation increases 3%, energy 3%, euphoria 0%, focus 10%. 2 weeks of trying to get an effect and barely any success. Taking nothing just barely feels different from a 100-140mg dose. "F***", I think, "this med really helped me, now I've ruined it".

For the last month I've been Vyvanse free. Except for a few 100mg+ days. If that gives me any effect at all, it's miniscule. Even going 200mg+ doesn't really impact anything. I lack energy and motivation and I feel like my brain power is only 70% of what it once was, pre-Vyvanse. Oh, and the anhedonia and apathy of quitting is awful. I wish I could get the positives of Vyvanse back and feel normal (not ****) again being clean. HOW DO I DO THIS?

I'm afraid to talk to my psychologist or psychiatrist about this because I'm afraid they will no longer prescribe Vyvanse. It is EXTREMELY helpful for me when I don't abuse it but I doubt I'll get another script if they find out this.

Got stuff to do atm. Going to edit this later for readability.
Thanks if you help.

Tl;dr: abused large amount of Vyvanse over several months. Tolerance is so high, 100mg+ provides little to no effect. When sober I feel very lethargic, depressed, apathetic. How do I feel better while off and how can I make Vyvanse work for me again?

Little Missy
05-15-17, 09:49 AM
Take it as prescribed. Period.

Pilgrim
05-15-17, 11:43 AM
Stop abusing it. I've been tempted. Side effects aside, if these medications are taken as prescribed it's the subtle effects that are the best. Quit the Valium to. I hope you succeed mate. Goodluck.

Pilgrim
05-15-17, 11:53 AM
This is my experience. You can develop some tolerance but major tolerance is a furphy. Higher doses, more chance of abuse, also major side effects.

I've taken Stimulints for over 5 years. Some on this forum lots longer. I take 40 mg a day. I found this is the level if I don't want to experience major issues. What made me decide on this level was really that I wasn't getting much more at higher doses.

Other side effects. Vasoconstriction and psychosis. Used well these ubstances can be great at dealing with inability to focus, staying on task, depression and follow through. But you can't ask these drugs to do more than they can. I found learning as much about ADD and these drugs really helpful. Goodluck

ShootingStarX
05-15-17, 04:10 PM
I amphetawrote way too much.

Oops haha.

Take it as prescribed. Period.

If 140mg doesn't effect me, taking my prescribed 70mg isn't exactly going to help is it


Stop abusing it. I've been tempted. Side effects aside, if these medications are taken as prescribed it's the subtle effects that are the best. Quit the Valium to. I hope you succeed mate. Goodluck.

I'm not abusing Vyvanse nor will again. Already off the Valium - awful withdrawal.


I have two questions really:

How long must I abstain from Vyvanse until my prescribed dose of 70mg gives therapeutic effects again?
How do I ameliorate the lack of energy and slow thinking that quitting Vyvanse caused?

Little Missy
05-15-17, 04:39 PM
Ask your doctor.

sarahsweets
05-15-17, 04:49 PM
Hi, long time lurker here.
Tl;dr at bottom (after all this is add forums, we need it :p)

I was been diagnosed with ADHD-PI about 9 months ago. Tried Ritalin. Hated it. Went onto Vyvanse. For a period of time it turned my life around! Started with 30mg, but that quickly became one and a half a day, then it became two a day and then all in the span of 2 months, I was being prescribed 70mg. 70mg was the sweet spot for a while. Energy, motivation, euphoria, sociability. I started taking a bit more every now and then and had tolerance breaks every now and then.

Cut to about 3 months ago. Life was going pretty badly and lots of stuff needed to get done. 70mg was now my minimum though most days would be 100-140. Now I'm productive af, doing more than 2 people could do in a day and more. ****! - there's still heaps of uni work to do though..

Cut 2 weeks. Now I'm at 210mg (3x 70mg) daily to keep up. On a few days I went to 280mg, on one day I consumed 350mg. Had no really bad side effects, just the usual unpleasant; jitteriness, bruxism, tachycardia, diaphoresis, xerostomia, reduced appetite and sometimes insomnia. However the comedowns - a f***ing nightmare; anxiety, depression, dysphoria, irritability, lack of focus, fatigue, and any sort of social interaction was the last thing on my mind. Luckily I get out of all those symptoms with my little valium pill.
No matter how you justify it, this is drug seeking/misusing/abusing behavior. Sure you can say you know your body well enough to know what works but it doesnt matter. It wouldnt matter to the cops or your doctor either.



A few days of experimenting with 30mg DXM doses for tolerance. No improvement. Chelated magnesium doesn't seem to help either.

DXM has never been recommended or approved for use in potentiating amphetamines or trying to alter one's tolerance.


2 weeks of the worst of the withdrawals are over. Back to 100mg+ of Vyvanse a day. It's barely doing anything now though. Take cap, motivation increases 3%, energy 3%, euphoria 0%, focus 10%. 2 weeks of trying to get an effect and barely any success. Taking nothing just barely feels different from a 100-140mg dose. "F***", I think, "this med really helped me, now I've ruined it".

For the last month I've been Vyvanse free. Except for a few 100mg+ days. If that gives me any effect at all, it's miniscule. Even going 200mg+ doesn't really impact anything. I lack energy and motivation and I feel like my brain power is only 70% of what it once was, pre-Vyvanse. Oh, and the anhedonia and apathy of quitting is awful. I wish I could get the positives of Vyvanse back and feel normal (not ****) again being clean. HOW DO I DO THIS?

I'm afraid to talk to my psychologist or psychiatrist about this because I'm afraid they will no longer prescribe Vyvanse. It is EXTREMELY helpful for me when I don't abuse it but I doubt I'll get another script if they find out this.

You have basically decided to be your own doctor and treat yourself however you see fit when it comes to vyvanse. It seems like you are confusing how well the drug works with how it makes you feel. If you are even able to take something in the future as prescribed, I recommend trying something other than vyvanse.

Be very careful
05-25-17, 12:21 PM
This is my experience. You can develop some tolerance but major tolerance is a furphy. Higher doses, more chance of abuse, also major side effects.


FURPHY I love Aussies!

chronological
10-31-17, 05:31 PM
No solution here, just shared experience.

Prior to my current situation and doctor, I'd titrated Vyvanse up to 70mg, and prior to *that* I'd also tried Ritalin, Concerta, and Adderall at various doses. Nothing made the slightest difference. To be honest, I'd always seen ADHD (ADD-PI in my case) to be at best a wimpy first world problem, and at worst just completely made up to give drug companies an excuse to sell stuff. And so the failure of the meds did nothing to change my mind on that. Yes, sure, I had "symptoms", but didn't everyone? I thought.

But then two things changed. First, my symptoms became much more intense, to the level that they were triggering stress (well, so my docs told me), which in turn was triggering what we thought at first were heart problems. Second, I happened to start working with a new doc -- a psychiatrist, and one who specialized in ADHD. He immediately suspected that dosing was an issue and, despite 70mg Vyvanse being some important FDA number, told me to titrate up from that. 80, 90, 100 ... no change. 110, 120, ... 140 BINGO! It was like I'd been seeing in black and white and suddenly the color turned on. I couldn't believe the difference. Looking back over my entire 50+ years of life, I realized I'd been experiencing ADHD since, well forever. Weirdest of all was that I *felt* no difference. No euphoria, or high; no heart pacing, nor any other sign. Just the most profound focus and effectiveness at work. Simply un-bloody-believable. Most transformative medical experience I have ever had.

And then nine months later, as fast as it had turned on, it turned off. Actually, it was probably a bit slower than that since I had a run of colds and sore throats around the same time, so that may have been masking a slower decline. But decline there was, until I was back to where I'd been. But oh boy how I noticed it now. I felt like I was in Flowers for Algernon, on the way down! I kept at it a few more weeks, thinking maybe I was imagining it, but eventually I said to the doc, and said I wondered if this was tolerance. He said that it almost certainly was. Doh!

So, as to dealing with that. Well, first I stopped the Vyvanse. I tapered down over about a week and that was almost completely trouble free. I did have a distinct tiredness from early evening for days 2 and 3, but that disappeared. By about day 5 or 6 I was pretty much off it. I know some people report having a hard time with discontinuing but I had been on 140mg a day for nine months and it was pretty much painless. And just for the record, I never had any kind of ill effects while on the meds; no "crash" or the like. As I say, even while using the meds I actually felt nothing. If someone had slipped me those two 70mg pills without telling me, I wouldn't have known, except for the fact that I'd forget to eat lunch and not go home from the office until 9pm that night!

Next, we looked at a replacement. We tried Adderall at the highest typical dose, but it had no effect. Apparently cross tolerance can be a very individual thing, but in my case, with these meds, under all my other environmental and life parameters, the cross tolerance is *high*. Next we tried Desoxyn (prescription methamphetamine). Doc told me to titrate up as high as I felt necessary, so I took it up to 50mg (twice the usual FDA number), but it was useless. Like eating Tic Tacs. He'd have let me go up higher but ... well, methamphetamine an' all that. I've no problem trying (prescribed) meds, but even I found the idea of consuming the same chemical they made on Breaking Bad a bit scary.)

At that point I decided to try a different tack. Instead of trying to beat Vyvanse tolerance via another med, I tried to lose weight so as to boost the effect of the Vyvanse. I'm rather large -- 5'7" and 300lbs -- so it's plausible that by reducing that weight my 140mg would start being effective again. However, that's all nice in practice, but in theory I didn't shift a single pound. I blame those most addictive of all drugs -- cheesecake and bacon. (No, not at the same time! I have *some* self control.)

Finally I realized that about six months had passed since stopping the Vyvanse, so I asked the doc if he thought it might be worth trying again. He agreed, so I did, and BINGO, we were back to Laser focus and productivity a-go-go. Awesome :-)

Except...that was about six months ago (notice: 33% shorter than before). These past few weeks have seen the old lethargy and fuzziness rearing again, so I think I've probably hit tolerance once again. And as you can see, faster this time than before. Bu that's not a surprise. I was 9 month on and then about 6 months off. That 6 months was enough to clear my initial tolerance down to a level where 140mg became therapeutic again, but it's likely it was not long enough to get me right back down to being a Vyvanse virgin again. So I'm guessing it's likely that the on/off approach, although effective, will need some longer term management to *stay* effective. Anyway I'll probably go see him in a week or three and talk about options for the next phase.

Bottom line:

Tolerance will almost certainly happen sooner or later, especially on big doses like mine, so roll with it
Don't listen to people who tell you that you also have to get enough sleep*, or not drink OJ, or whatever else silly theory they come up with. Tolerance is a law of physics (well, chemistry) kind of thing, and if your meds were as effective as mine were, you will know without a doubt (if you let yourself) if and when they stop working. THEREFORE
Talk to your doc. Don't ask for higher doses, but be honest about the drop in efficacy. Tell them the facts about your experience. For me, one symptom of ineffective meds is finding myself staring blankly at my computer screen, essentially overwhelmed by what I perceive as a jillion things to be done and not being able to pick any one, focus on it, and actually do it. That simply didn't happen when the meds were working. (If anything I had the opposite problem of hyperfocus. That was another thing I thought was a kinda BS first world thing. Oh no. No way. Hyperfocus is a real thing! :-) ) If you can trust them to know what they're talking about --- I have only a 50% hit rate on that front -- then be open to suggestions of other meds, or alternatives to meds, or augmentations of meds. If you can't trust them to know, then find a new one.


c


* Although yes, *do* get enough sleep. That is vital. All I'm saying is, the difference between Meds ON! and Meds OFF! is not going to be explained by sleep; not over any significant period of time anyway.

cobain67
10-31-17, 08:17 PM
Exercise helps too..

Fraser_0762
10-31-17, 09:09 PM
chronological (http://addforums.com/forums/member.php?u=40616) - Not getting enough sleep, or having too high a PH level within the stomach does impact the medication.