View Full Version : Co-morbidity identification issue


ADD_Serpent
06-11-17, 10:53 AM
I am not sure weather this is the right Topic for this Question.
Since we ADD-ers are normally having many problems associated I would like to understand some aspects of that part.
To put it simply my doubt is how to to distinguish weather what we have/suffer as a co-morbidity is anxiety, OCD or Depression. I have a basic understanding that there is not a perfect clear line between these disorders. But in any case clinicians are classifying and choosing medications based on certain very basic or complex (I am not sure) patterns of symptoms.
How you can explain them(Differences) if possible, within your time limitations (With or without classic examples)?
I am aware that "Getting Professionals support" is the classic answer, but since we are the one who best understands our thoughts and who are ready to spend maximum time for our own benefit, our clarity in all aspects of the situation definitely carries an advantage in our own treatment.
Thanks for reading.

Pilgrim
06-11-17, 11:28 AM
Normally a capable Dr who specialises in ADD will use there clinical experience to assess most issues regarding your condition.

Recently my Dr convinced me to try another medication in conjunction with Dex to ameliorate a depressive issue that was rearing its head.

These types of situations are where a good Dr can come into their own. It's hard to self analyse.

ADD_Serpent
06-11-17, 06:24 PM
It's hard to self analyse.

Defenitly! That is why I am trying to start a experience or opinion sharing so that at least we can try to make it less harder!
ADHD life itself is hard! So why not give a try?

Self treatment or medication is illegal and dangerous, but self analysing and studying our conditions seriously will surely help, if we restrain from start teaching or imposing our conclusions on our doctor!, He will spend more research time and caution on our case,if we ask real genuine questions in a proper manner. He will have to!
A Doctor or a attorny will defenitly have to prepare seriously to handle a client who study his own case seriously. Our doubts and quest for clarifications will trigger more options from his experience.
But we need information on subject which we patients can only get from forums like this.
Thanks

Fuzzy12
06-11-17, 07:31 PM
I think.there are clear differences between depression, anxiety and ocd. Are you asking what these differences are? The symptoms are quite distinctive though these disorders are not necessarily exclusive. And

In terms of treatment what I've found really interesting is yhst anti depressants pretty much got rid of my anxiety and helped hugely with obsessive thinking. They didn't help me. Much with depression though...:lol:

ADD_Serpent
06-11-17, 10:15 PM
I am not asking the difference generally.
I will try to explain through my example. I have ADHD from age 17 onwards, but only co-morbidity (OCD Pure O) were treated at that time or so I believe. Recently started for treating ADD, Now I am 46.
I know conventional OCD has compulsions, but in my case What I have is Pure O, No compulsions from the beginning. Sometimes I worry too much about financial problems I have. It is constant thinking so may be OCD, But I am worried or tensed over that issue. So it is anxiety also. (Correct?) Some times I feel Due to all these problems I have wasted my entire life and Become nothing. So very sad moody. I think that is Depression. (Correct?)
My Girlfriend sometimes breakup and or act as breaking up and comes back because she knows she is my obsession (Not in a clinical way). Then I always think about her, worrying when she will be calling back, some sort of OCD and anxiety. Some of these things force me to surrender to her easily. But I found it difficult to explain to my doctor about the feelings (Names- may be) I am having. All these feelings sometimes goes up and down, sometimes without reason and sometimes based on some triggers. The treatment, I am getting is for OCD and ADHD. No anxiety medication is prescribed. May be since SSRIs are the long term solution for that(Correct?), My Doctor says all these will come down in due course , May be. But this so called worry or what we call tension is something that can be avoided with some medication as far as I know. I am not believing in even short tern suffering to avoid medication and hope to live a 100 years. I though If I have a better understanding I can convince my doctor to give me some short term relief medicines. May be, not sure.
Probably My real question may be, what is the difference between anxiety and OCD which is pure O.
So I thought if few people share there views or knowledge , may be useful for me and others.
Hope I presented my case with clarity!
Thanks for reading

dvdnvwls
06-11-17, 11:52 PM
Obsession and anxiety: Doesn't an obsession focus repeatedly on the same thought? Isn't anxiety more consistent in applying to many situations?

sarahsweets
06-12-17, 04:41 AM
My Girlfriend sometimes breakup and or act as breaking up and comes back because she knows she is my obsession (Not in a clinical way). Then I always think about her, worrying when she will be calling back, some sort of OCD and anxiety. Some of these things force me to surrender to her easily.
This is very, very cruel and I would think about how good your relationship is.

But I found it difficult to explain to my doctor about the feelings (Names- may be) I am having. All these feelings sometimes goes up and down, sometimes without reason and sometimes based on some triggers. The treatment, I am getting is for OCD and ADHD. No anxiety medication is prescribed. May be since SSRIs are the long term solution for that(Correct?), My Doctor says all these will come down in due course , May be. But this so called worry or what we call tension is something that can be avoided with some medication as far as I know. I am not believing in even short tern suffering to avoid medication and hope to live a 100 years. I though If I have a better understanding I can convince my doctor to give me some short term relief medicines. May be, not sure.
What do you mean by short term medications?

Probably My real question may be, what is the difference between anxiety and OCD which is pure O.
What does " pure O" mean?

peripatetic
06-12-17, 06:38 PM
What does " pure O" mean?

it means that it's primarily obsessive without external compulsions. often there are mental compulsions.

i have this. it's characterized by intrusive thoughts (mine tend to be violent ones, but some people have sexual ones) and you might do mental gymnastics to "cut deals" to make them not happen. try to control your thoughts, which you cannot because that's the definition of intrusive, then obsess over whether and how bad of a person you are because you cannot.

it's probably a lesser known manifestation, but any google search will pull it up.

Fuzzy12
06-12-17, 07:26 PM
If I remember right ocd and
anxiety are closely related. I think.it's something like the obsessive thought causes anxiety and the compulsive action provides some relief from the
anxiety. I think. I could be wrong.

Also both anxiety and depression are very often comorbid with adhd. Add to that that adhd is often accompanied by a severe dysfunction of emotional regulation and it's no surprise that many of us are emotionally all over the place.

Which medication sre you taking?

I think short term meds for anxiety are usually benzodiazepines but they have an addiction risk so you need to be quite careful when taking them

And yes your girlfriend does sound cruel. You shouldn't have to put up with that kindergarten rubbish.

ToneTone
06-12-17, 09:02 PM
Not all preoccupation is anxiety or OCD. Not all bad feeling and despair is depression. Not all procrastination and delay and failure to follow through is ADHD.

Depression for me = feeling worthless, feeling like a failure AND not being able to concentrate (even on a lot of fun stuff), feeling hopeless, feel that all my efforts are futile and useless ... usually comes with major lack of energy ... exhaustion ... mental and emotional exhaustion.

ADHD = I can have tons of energy ... but cannot make deadlines like I want, cannot plan in a helpful way ... Have trouble juggling multiple tasks or multiple goals or multiple projects at the same time without forgetting some key tasks (bad working memory) ... I fail to follow through on tasks that requires some detail ... procrastinate ... easily distracted or pulled away into non-important tasks.

Anxiety ... tougher for me ... But I have a friend who is treated for anxiety ...

Anxiety for my friend = reflex reaction to any challenge--or potential challenge--is to worry ... When apparent trouble comes, my friend does NOT brainstorm, does not think strategically, does not check with others ... does not journal or find a way to check on his own worries ... he simply worries and frets in a kinda passive and hopeless way ... and then he worries about his worry ... and blames himself for his worry ... Note: my friend has a lot of resources (wealth) and knows a lot of really sharp and savvy people he could consult but doesn't.

So are you trying to tease out where these various conditions might overlap ... so as to be more precise in identifying them? ...and thus more precise in treating them?

Tone

ADD_Serpent
06-12-17, 10:42 PM
This is very, very cruel and I would think about how good your relationship is.

one of symptoms of ADHD mentioned in many YouTube videos, is having multiple sexual partners. Obviously at the age of 46 my term "girlfriend" is a decent word for a extra marital affair.:lol: When I was young I was thinking that having such relations is a sign of being attractive or smart and later I realized it is a result of a mental problem.
The partners in these cases are also usually having similar problems and that might be the reason behind this association also.I very well know that my partner is having a sadistic nature. But every relation you bring into your life, Even if it is a pet, is a liability. I think the so called Love chemicals in your brain works in a very collaborative way with your OCD characteristics. They, I think are the best partners who can make life of a OCD person more miserable than any other combination, unless the partner is mentally sound which requires you need to be extremely lucky. Moreover Sexual relations masquerading as love affairs are not easy to escape from the logical judgement of weather it is good or bad. I think that is not easy even for a normal person let alone people like me.
But luckily the fluvoxine and strattera as it reaches ample dose and enough time to start effecting, is now helping me to persist in my stands and bring situation and persons to my terms. ADHD normally deprives you of the capability to wait for the benefit of delayed gratification. That impatience or hurry is the main cause which fails you in any attempt. (My Feeling - may be wrong)
The point is I am saying is that relation I am maintaining is not because I feel it is good, but I am addicted.But I think I am getting through with medication.


What do you mean by short term medications?


I was thinking of getting something like librium, valium, or alprax, but I think they if continued will be addictive, but may help to make things easy now.

What does " pure O" mean?
[/quote]

It is Obsessive thoughts only, no compulsive actions which others can see like washing hands . repeated bathing, or checking door locks again and again.
Foe example my ADHD starts at age of 17. At that time 1987 it is student becoming lazy and getting interested in movies and girlfriends, nothing else. Obviously within two years I was dropped out of my Engineering course and by this time OCD started prominently. I used to read spy thriller books, like Robert Ludlum, Alister Ma lean Frederick foresyth etc. So the description of many secret service organizations torturing suspects to extract information was usually described in those books, like pulling finger nails and more... Slowly this thought of the agony the victim is suffering began to persist in my thoughts. I stopped reading those books. But the thought is always there. I appear normal even sleep was also normal, but agony was horrific. At that time no internet, but I know some psychiatric magazines and got a clue about the disease called OCD. so consulted a psychiatrist and he gave some antidepressants , I think it was Imipramine. So that ocd subsided. For that I have no compulsive actions.So I thinkit isan example of Pure O.
But my ADHD which was never addressed remained and which ruined my life. For some time I will stop medication after few months OCD comes back, and I start medication again and that cycle continued and now recently because of internet I suspected this culprit called and consulted a specialist started treating it and I think I am improving.
So that is a lengthy short story.:thankyou: For reading.

ADD_Serpent
06-12-17, 10:56 PM
I don't know weather correct or not, but I think OCD mainly works on imaginary fears which we know is not going to happen, But I think anxiety is over worry or tension over real life situations which are other wise manageable , but anxiety magnifies the bad consequences for our perception and So general creates a feeling called worry , tension etc..
What about this way of classifying?

Cyllya
06-14-17, 05:21 PM
It might help to clarify that "anxiety" is an emotion, not a disorder or condition. Disorders can mess up your emotions, such as by causing anxiety, and disorders that have anxiety as a key symptom are collectively called anxiety disorders. OCD is one example, classified as an anxiety disorder in the DSM4 and ICD-10.

Not everyone agrees with me on this, but I conceptualize mood disorders as having emotions that don't match the situation, e.g. anxious when there's nothing to be anxious about, more anxious than you should be when there is something to be anxious about, or getting stuck feeling anxiety after the cause of the anxiety is long gone. Unfortunately, that idea has limited help to the diagnostic process, because there's no real way to tell what your emotions are "supposed" to be. Natural and disordered causes of emotions feel pretty similar, it's possible to have both at once, and either can cause the other. Your emotions affect your perceptions, so if you have an anxiety disorder, any anxiety-causing thing may seem legitimately more scary than it normally would.

ADD_Serpent, your description of your symptoms sounds more like generalized anxiety disorder than OCD. Have you had a second opinion for that diagnosis?

The exception is your thoughts of the agony of torture victims, which sounds like intrusive thoughts. "Intrusive thoughts" is a symptom, not condition, and OCD is one of the related conditions. Here's a page about it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thought

ADD_Serpent
06-14-17, 11:54 PM
Thank you very much Cyllya (http://www.addforums.com/forums/member.php?u=66987) for a detailed professional opinion which takes some time for me to sink in and give a detailed replay. So will write later.
Any way thanks for the analysis. Will update later.

sarahsweets
06-15-17, 11:58 AM
one of symptoms of ADHD mentioned in many YouTube videos, is having multiple sexual partners. Obviously at the age of 46 my term "girlfriend" is a decent word for a extra marital affair.:lol:
Are one of you married?

When I was young I was thinking that having such relations is a sign of being attractive or smart and later I realized it is a result of a mental problem.
The partners in these cases are also usually having similar problems and that might be the reason behind this association also.
Can you explain this better? I dont understand.

I very well know that my partner is having a sadistic nature. But every relation you bring into your life, Even if it is a pet, is a liability.
I disagree. I see no reason why anyone needs to tolerate sadistic natures in their romantic partners. A liability is a risk. A liability is not accepting the fact that you will have to deal with such mean spiritedness and unhappiness in your love relationships.

I think the so called Love chemicals in your brain works in a very collaborative way with your OCD characteristics. They, I think are the best partners who can make life of a OCD person more miserable than any other combination, unless the partner is mentally sound which requires you need to be extremely lucky. Moreover Sexual relations masquerading as love affairs are not easy to escape from the logical judgement of weather it is good or bad. I think that is not easy even for a normal person let alone people like me. When you say "they" do you mean her, or you?
And I dont think having someone mentally sound should have anything to do with luck. You deserve better than what you are getting.
Is the relationship only about sex or is their love also?

But luckily the fluvoxine and strattera as it reaches ample dose and enough time to start effecting, is now helping me to persist in my stands and bring situation and persons to my terms. ADHD normally deprives you of the capability to wait for the benefit of delayed gratification. That impatience or hurry is the main cause which fails you in any attempt. (My Feeling - may be wrong)
Immediate gratification and overlooking flaws can be something I deal with too. But boundaries are huge and it doesnt seem like you have many.

The point is I am saying is that relation I am maintaining is not because I feel it is good, but I am addicted.But I think I am getting through with medication.

WOA..addicted is not a healthy relationship.


Foe example my ADHD starts at age of 17. At that time 1987 it is student becoming lazy and getting interested in movies and girlfriends, nothing else. Obviously within two years I was dropped out of my Engineering course and by this time OCD started prominently.
In order for it to be adhd, symptoms must have been present before the age od 12 and impair your life in 6 or more areas in 2 or more ways. Are you sure you only had issues at 17?

Like I said above, you deserve better then this.

ADD_Serpent
06-16-17, 02:48 AM
It might help to clarify that "anxiety" is an emotion, not a disorder or condition. Disorders can mess up your emotions, such as by causing anxiety, and disorders that have anxiety as a key symptom are collectively called anxiety disorders. OCD is one example.
I think to me that is an important information which helps me to understand the implications and uses of terminology in psychatry. That understanding is very vital when we read psychatric litrature. " Emotion, condition, disorder " are common words, but significant are the differences in this context. Thanks for Clarifying that factor.

Natural and disordered causes of emotions feel pretty similar, it's possible to have both at once, and either can cause the other. Your emotions affect your perceptions, so if you have an anxiety disorder, any anxiety-causing thing may seem legitimately more scary than it normally would.
I think I am getting the point. My finacial problems should be of more priority than the girl frind issue, but the disorder and the effects might have altered my perceptions. Also in the case of my "cruel girlfriend" when she is in the break off state, which now it is, I write down affirmations like " let her go, why should I need her" etc and almost remain calm. We work in the same building so i periodically check weather she is there through window, ( but now I am able to reduce the frequency very much and some days even to nill. I think Fluvoxin helps that). So everything normal so I feel "OK, I forgot her, good"
But one day I notice she leaving too early. Some attack strikes me. I dont think it can be called a panic attack, but a worry, uneasiless, tension, loss of mood. Also I relaize still I have not escaped her obsession. I was trying to demonstrate through an example. Since the girl is an obsession and I have a history of OCD, now I think all problems related with this has been related by me and my doctor as OCD.

ADD_Serpent, your description of your symptoms sounds more like generalized anxiety disorder than OCD.
The exception is your thoughts of the agony of torture victims, which sounds like intrusive thoughts. "Intrusive thoughts" is a symptom, not condition, and OCD is one of the related conditions
Since I belive now I have a more clear understanding about my situaltion and certain terminology relevent here, on my next immediate visit, I will use words like anxiety, worry, trigger and orient him to my view which I will present as doubt. He is a nice fellow. He will understand. I will politely ask him "weather we should add a small dose of another SSRI like Escitalopram or whatever he thinks good which is more helpfull for anxiety along with fluvoxine." Most probabily he will comply if he think my observation is reasonable. In any case he will smile and say " I already told you, STOP GOOGLING"

mildadhd
06-16-17, 04:36 AM
Starting at the bottom of our BrainMind, with constant common primary genetic (capitalized) mammalian behaviors and some of the possible secondary commoribities, due to chronic overarousal or chronic underarousal.

Here are some secondary behaviours associated with chronic arousal or chronic underarousal of each primary emotional affective behaviour systems.

Note: to paraphrase Dr Panksepp, types of anxieties, and types of depressions.

Chronic overarousal of the RAGE system (fight?, approach distress?)
Chronic overarousal of the FEAR system (flight anxiety, avoid distress?)
Chronic overarousal of the socialGRIEF system (separation anxiety, depression)

Chronic underarousal of the SEEKING system. (depression, lack of general motivation)
Chronic underarousal of the LUST system (depression)
Chronic underarousal of the social CARE system (depression)
Chronic underarousal of the social PLAY system. (depression)

m

ADD_Serpent
06-18-17, 07:05 AM
First of all Thank you very much sarahsweetsfor expressing sincere interest in knowing about my issues and suggest solutions.

Since to answer your queries in a better way, I think it demands that you must be given some explanations about the social situations and issues prevailing in my part of the world. Without that insight I believe you cannot properly perceptualize my statements.

I live in Southern in India and in a city with a population of 2.1 million. But that doesn't means that you can consider my place as a city like your term 'city'. In India probably five main metro cities (Mumbai, Calcutta, Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi may be termed as cities of your concept and most of my social explanations may not be perfectly applicable there.) But my explanations about social situations applies to other less modern parts of India.
All sexual relations outside a legal marriage is "morally illegal" for us. There is no "boyfriend" "girlfriend" with a so called dating type of experience or relation possible. maximum you can sit together and have a coffee and talk. But the look you get from others will be very unpleasant. And the reality is fundamentally we are jealous of others who take some social risks and try to maintain a man-women relation, off the official bond.A girls who had a sexual intercourse before marriage is a "lost soul" (Not only religiously but socially). So sex is within marriage only.
A unrelated man and women cannot get a room in most of the hotels in the areas I refer in this context. It is not illegal by law for a unrelated man and women to have sex, unless it is for money.( That is law!). But the police has rights to raid hotels to check weather sex for money is going on So if during such a raid two unrelated male and female is found in a room, they will take you and on court or police station, and there you can state that you were together by consent and no law is broken. So you are free then. But by this time most of your family members will be contacted and some times if you are lucky some print or visual media might have reported this incident as a incident of organized prostitution going on in that hotel.So your life and social status is practically changed by now! (On High class hotels I am not saying it is common, or easy for the police to do this, But the management doesn't want such a situation to happen, so the couples will be denied room. "Brave" people like me use this loophole (High Class Hotel) which is very expensive and we have to carry some luggage and some gimmicks! and in some extreme case even some document forgery which is really illegal). Since our population is so sexually hungry in spite of consenting adults, rapes and organized sexual prostitution exists which makes this issue very sensitive and sexually jealous society enjoys this news and media exploits that hunger.
As the advent of Whatsapp and mobile phones and facebook "illegal" relations flourished in our society and lot of "lovers" because of the lack of a Place to copulate release their frustration by exchanging nude photos over whats app some of them obviously got leaked "Not by NSA, but by mobile technicians, because majority mobile users believe "Delete"button clears everything)and this has become another issue for public enjoyment here.
This much info should make you aware of the sexual poverty of my community, which I am a part of. Now I think we are ready to move on..

Are one of you married?
We both are married with kids and I am sure I have a happy married life and the human instinct of polygamy plus a desire for variety may be the general reason for my this practice. In case of her as per her description they both are very quarrelsome and he at least two or three times even physically assault her. So she carries some sort of a vengeance. Physical assault cannot be justified in any case, but having said that I wont feel it is impossible in their case, since she can talk and act to provoke to that level. Even though I keep a certain distance from him always, her husband is not a very bad guy, that I am sure.


Can you explain this better? I dont understand.
That was regarding my statement that while young I thought this type of relations are a sign of smartness which I don't subscribe now.
This issue you have to correlate with the introduction I have given at the beginning of this post. In a sexually deprived , hungry, society I took many risks, spend lot of time and money, attracted many girls, influenced them to a level that they took so much risks to come with me to a hotel or a private place which I arrange were grerat achievements for me. But later as My family responsibilities and kids grow up I began to think about what I gained, what I saved for my kids,- so I slowly pulled out from many other relation and this affair only, because of its physical proximity and her "unique love, enjoyment, pleasure and oneness" ( I know no other phrase to explain) while we are in bed, remained nondetachable for me. Similarly she may also be having her own mental obsessions,or mental problems which force her to continue. She always says "I am (This writing Me) extremely caring and loving but sometimes I go to the other extreme end which is very rude and un-tolerable". May be I am? whom I can ask for a judgement? I know I am also having mental issues.


I disagree. I see no reason why anyone needs to tolerate sadistic natures in their romantic partners. A liability is a risk. A liability is not accepting the fact that you will have to deal with such mean spiritedness and unhappiness in your love relationships.
My that statement was regarding her sadistic nature. Hurting the partner physically and enjoying by that act is the general implication of the word,So I believe. But watching our partner mentally suffering because we cut the relation abruptly without having given a proper deliberation for the reason and waiting or seems waiting for one day to reopen and put forward some reasons and conditions and make the devastated partner to comply is forcing me to choose the word sadistic.(Her view point may be different, I don't know) And the question you asking "why to allow this" seems very obvious, I am sure.
Here I think I should slightly poke you :lol: by saying that either you are too inexperienced in these type of affairs by living "by the book" or thinking too straight forward. Once you are in some deep relations especially which involves sex which both parties enjoy with ecstasy, then it is not easy to command your own mind to your logical decisions. If your emotions or behaviors are something which is under your control, why psychiatry , why medications, why even this forum?
Even this thread is basically this same question asked from my side , why I heave to tolerate this , how can I get out, which class medication will help, all are my questions. So I disagree with your "disagreement". Commanding ourselves to behave logically is not easy always. That is why we are here.

When you say "they" do you mean her, or you?
Is the relationship only about sex or is their love also?
The "they" was about chemicals in Brain. The feeling/emotion which we call "Love" Gives us some pleasure when we are being in company with that person whom we love, So there must be some brain chemicals produced during that time which makes us feel good.OCD or anxiety is also the result of production or lack of some chemicals. When Loved one moves away Love chemical probably leaves the scene and the OCD/Anxiety chemicals jump out and started showing off in morbid persons. They are the "They" I referred to!(May be right or wrong, just my version or read somewhere, I am not a professional!)
and regarding weather this is sex only or love. All sex relations with the exception of paid and arranged prostitution, at least claims to be involving love. That is the general setting at least in my part of the world which I know. So what I am explaining now only carries the weigh of a claim only, But will try to attempt anyway.
How you or me can define weather I love a person who is not publicly or socially related to me, but have a hidden relation and the main activity apart from mutual opinion sharing and advice is sex? I have a interpretation for this, if I am ready to share my resources and willing to risk some social status or something which is valuable to me for her happiness, Then I love Her.That condition satisfies in this case. For example During some time when I sense some vendors trouble here for outstanding payments, which I can, because we are in the same building, some times I secretly pay them and gave her time to repay them. Some vendors keep this secret and we adjust later. and some others disclose. she then will get violent and send me messages saying bribing her secretly for sex and similar shouting which I don't respond. later when we we regroup she will repay but I wont accept and she knows I wont accept it, for sure. But the joke is, in the next fight she will never show any gratitude for this and will openly say it is expecting for sex, but I will repeat the same support. So you can assume this may be for sex or may be for love. I love her I want she to be safe, happy, That I am Sure, but what I want is, to get out is the clutch she has over me. I want me to be non worrying if she cut off communication. Then no issue for me. This example is finance case, even though not yet happened, I am absolutely sure that if I see somebody physically assaulting her, in front of me, I will surely intervene risking all this going public and I will have huge issues in my family with wife especially. But I believe I have to. May be love, may be self respect, may be lust, whatever. So I claim I love her, But my wife, kids, my sister, her kids,(sisters husband not included in the list :lol: ) these lives have priority over her life's safety. That is my standpoint as I know!

Immediate gratification and overlooking flaws can be something I deal with too. But boundaries are huge and it doesnt seem like you have many.
I think Immediate gratification is a core issue here, but not in the well known context. ADHD Mainly (as I read somewhere) and OCD or GAD makes me anxious nervous about the non contact state, so I eagerly want to restart the contact. I want it soon to happen. so I worry, think when she will come, what can I do for it etc. That is my minds eagerness for immediate gratification. But in the deep of my heart, I know if I sit cool and act as never mind and not concerned, she will will (I think she would) come around. Even if she wont come no issue, I have family and if I need extra sex, :lol: I know how to arrange.But unfortunately I cannot get hold of the "switch" to "OFF" Her. Since I am valuable and I believe deep inside she also knows nobody else can tolerate her she may be back.(My assumptions only) But, she demonstrates that she can wait for the "delayed gratification" of me "surrendering". but I am deprived of that because of these morbidity. But as I said in one of my previous posts medications and self asserting statement technics are improving me much.But In my experience without medication no techniques explained in many web sites will work.

WOA..addicted is not a healthy relationship.
I fully agree. That is why I am here.But Realizations do not always solve the problem.


In order for it to be adhd, symptoms must have been present before the age od 12 and impair your life in 6 or more areas in 2 or more ways. Are you sure you only had issues at 17?
To Put it mildly - I think You are terribly wrong. I don't know how to put it in So called DSM-5 (https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm) terminology.(following info is only my understanding about this- may not be authentic) ADHD is not a age based disorder,I think most cases start at 8 or 16. as grows up most people carry it to adulthood, but the hyperactive component subsides inwards as over mind activity only. They know what is the priority and how to do it to make things happen and life better. But they do not do the tasks in required priority and stay consistent in tasks without wavering till the completion. Tasks seems overwhelming to them and as a result they do the less important and more easy tasks. Working memory which is the backbone of organized planning and task execution is impaired, so no work which requires sustained mental effort and persistent focus cannot be completed successfully. as these problems effect all aspects of life, the person becomes a mess unless a supportive family is there. By supplementing or prevent loosing, some chemicals using medication these effects can be controlled and person can regroup himself if properly intervened in time.
I don't know the numbers , but I have many of these problems, So Doctors also say ADHD with co -morbidity.

Like I said above, you deserve better then this.
Since I believe this is a complement I sincerely thank you. But let me ask you that, have to ever felt, the world or life responds with proper standards of deservingness? If deserving is to be proper, then right, wrong, good, bad all these things to be well defined. And more than that the phenomena which defines the right wrong aspects ( Normally called God or God Code - which I don't believe as existing) should be controlling the outcome or the effects also. Such a unified code I was never able to observe in anybodies life which I know.
So the normal phrase I heard is
"We don't get what we deserve!, Thank God!"
I wonder The autobiography which I wrote spending one Sunday is boring or useful. One thing I know, there are many people out there who are almost exactly in my situation with minor variations based on region. Nobody usually discuss this I believe, may be because of shame , shyness or because they don't know how to express. Above all most of them think that it is their built in normal response because of the situation and mind is not changeable since our thoughts are our own mental makeup. I hope if this loooong post is useful for at least few people,to realize that mentality is not fixed, and it is chemistry based and alterable, then my lengthy autobiography is justified.
If you survived up to this point, thank you very much for reading.
I will update my medication results and btw more than OCD I have started concentrating on anxiety related solutions for my addiction.
Thank you all for this great forum.

sarahsweets
06-27-17, 04:16 AM
We both are married with kids and I am sure I have a happy married life and the human instinct of polygamy plus a desire for variety may be the general reason for my this practice. In case of her as per her description they both are very quarrelsome and he at least two or three times even physically assault her. So she carries some sort of a vengeance. Physical assault cannot be justified in any case, but having said that I wont feel it is impossible in their case, since she can talk and act to provoke to that level. Even though I keep a certain distance from him always, her husband is not a very bad guy, that I am sure.
Well I guess we can agree to disagree on this point about assault because when someone says someone else provokes them, unless they themselves are being physically assaulted, it is that person's duty to move away from the situation even if that means physically getting up and walking away. Im not saying its easy because when someone is pushing our buttons to that point reason isnt so easy to come by.





My that statement was regarding her sadistic nature. Hurting the partner physically and enjoying by that act is the general implication of the word,So I believe. But watching our partner mentally suffering because we cut the relation abruptly without having given a proper deliberation for the reason and waiting or seems waiting for one day to reopen and put forward some reasons and conditions and make the devastated partner to comply is forcing me to choose the word sadistic.(Her view point may be different, I don't know) And the question you asking "why to allow this" seems very obvious, I am sure.
Here I think I should slightly poke you :lol: by saying that either you are too inexperienced in these type of affairs by living "by the book" or thinking too straight forward. Once you are in some deep relations especially which involves sex which both parties enjoy with ecstasy, then it is not easy to command your own mind to your logical decisions. If your emotions or behaviors are something which is under your control, why psychiatry , why medications, why even this forum?
I dont mean to say that my emotions are under control or even if they were that I wouldnt need medication or this forum. I have been medicated for bipolar for 17 years and for the most part now, my emotions are mostly under control in this regard. Not to say I dont have my moments but they are not so serious or all encompassing. To say that someone who has their emotions under control outwardly wouldnt need professional help or support IMO is silly. We all need support and we all may need medications that can bring us stability.
And you are right, I may be naive as far as having affairs but I have been married to my college sweet heart for 21 years. We met when I was 18 and married when I was 20 and are totally and grossly in love and have a very good, active sex life. So maybe I can identify sexually with what you wrote but not as far as relationships?


Even this thread is basically this same question asked from my side , why I heave to tolerate this , how can I get out, which class medication will help, all are my questions. So I disagree with your "disagreement". Commanding ourselves to behave logically is not easy always. That is why we are here.

You are right. Its easy for me to tell you what I think you should be doing and much harder for you to just up and change how you feel and do it, My apologies.


To Put it mildly - I think You are terribly wrong. I don't know how to put it in So called DSM-5 (https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists/practice/dsm) terminology.(following info is only my understanding about this- may not be authentic) ADHD is not a age based disorder,I think most cases start at 8 or 16. as grows up most people carry it to adulthood, but the hyperactive component subsides inwards as over mind activity only. They know what is the priority and how to do it to make things happen and life better. But they do not do the tasks in required priority and stay consistent in tasks without wavering till the completion. Tasks seems overwhelming to them and as a result they do the less important and more easy tasks. Working memory which is the backbone of organized planning and task execution is impaired, so no work which requires sustained mental effort and persistent focus cannot be completed successfully. as these problems effect all aspects of life, the person becomes a mess unless a supportive family is there. By supplementing or prevent loosing, some chemicals using medication these effects can be controlled and person can regroup himself if properly intervened in time.
I don't know the numbers , but I have many of these problems, So Doctors also say ADHD with co -morbidity.


Mayo Clinic
Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children

Diagnosis

By Mayo Clinic Staff
In general, a child shouldn't receive a diagnosis of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder unless the core symptoms of ADHD start early in life before age 12 and create significant problems at home and at school on an ongoing basis.

There's no specific test for ADHD, but making a diagnosis will likely include:

Medical exam, to help rule out other possible causes of symptoms
Information gathering, such as any current medical issues, personal and family medical history, and school records
Interviews or questionnaires for family members, your child's teachers or other people who know your child well, such as baby sitters and coaches
ADHD criteria from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-5, published by the American Psychiatric Association
ADHD rating scales to help collect and evaluate information about your child
Diagnosing ADHD in young children

Although signs of ADHD can sometimes appear in preschoolers or even younger children, diagnosing the disorder in very young children is difficult. That's because developmental problems such as language delays can be mistaken for ADHD.

So children preschool age or younger suspected of having ADHD are more likely to need evaluation by a specialist, such as a psychologist or psychiatrist, speech pathologist, or developmental pediatrician.

Other conditions that resemble ADHD

A number of medical conditions or their treatments may cause signs and symptoms similar to those of ADHD. Examples include:

Learning or language problems
Mood disorders such as depression or anxiety
Other psychiatric disorders
Seizure disorders
Vision or hearing problems
Tourette syndrome
Medical problems that affect thinking or behavior
Sleep disorders
Thyroid problems
Substance abuse
Brain Injury







Age of onset criteria

In DSM-IV, the age of onset criteria was "some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7 years." This reflected the view that ADHD emerged relatively early in development and interfered with a child's functioning at a relatively young age.

In DSM-V this has been revised to "several inattentive or hyperactive-impulsive symptoms were present prior to 12 years." Thus, symptoms can now appear up to 5 years later. And, there is no longer the requirement that the symptoms create impairment by age 12, just that they are present.

The rationale for the older age of onset is that research published since DSM-IV did not identify meaningful differences in functioning, response to treatment, or outcomes in individuals whose symptoms were present at younger vs. older ages. However, there is also no longer the requirement for symptoms to cause impairment. This combination - older age of onset and removing the impairment requirement - is clearly more lenient.


Multiple settings requirement

In DSM-IV, symptoms were required to cause some impairment in at least 2 settings. Thus, not only did symptoms need to be evident in more than one setting, e.g., both school and home, but they also had to undermine the child's functioning in multiple settings.

DSM-V has changed this to "several inattentive or hyperactive-impulsive symptoms are present in two or more settings." Thus, symptoms must only be evident in more than one context but don't have to impair an individual's functioning in multiple contexts.

This is also more lenient.


Need for clinically significant impairment

DSM-IV required "clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning."

This has been changed to "...clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic, or occupational functioning."


My point in bringing up the diagnosis of adhd before age 12 wasnt to say someone or you couldnt have adhd diagnosed at age 17 or 100, I just meant that the significant symptoms and impairments have to have been there- basically- from a very early age. I would guess that like 70% of adults are probably not diagnosed until adulthood, but that doesnt mean they dont have it or didnt have it as a child, it just means that they were either misdiagnosed, underdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all when they were younger. The facts though are that you cant just suddenly develop adhd symptoms out of the blue and imo they are very slow to appear but sort of stack and grow on top of each other as the child gets older.

ADD_Serpent
06-27-17, 04:49 AM
My point in bringing up the diagnosis of adhd before age 12 wasnt to say someone or you couldnt have adhd diagnosed at age 17 or 100, I just meant that the significant symptoms and impairments have to have been there- basically- from a very early age. I would guess that like 70% of adults are probably not diagnosed until adulthood, but that doesnt mean they dont have it or didnt have it as a child, it just means that they were either misdiagnosed, underdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all when they were younger. The facts though are that you cant just suddenly develop adhd symptoms out of the blue and imo they are very slow to appear but sort of stack and grow on top of each other as the child gets older.

I got the point. The main basis of my argument was One of Dr.Russel Barkley's YouTube video where he says most of the ADHD people develop this disorder at the age of 16. That point hit me, because I started having study problem and poor academic performance at the age of 16. For me, at that 1970s, nobody is there who can distinguish a disorder from a problem child. May be I have developed many problems before 12, but for me, it struck me a real problem only at 16. Dr. Barkley also may be referring in the same general terms..
Thanks for clearing the point.