View Full Version : Endless saga of Willow's dating life: in which we meet a ?video game addict?

06-14-17, 09:47 PM
My school's end-of-year concert was today, it went great!

I met this guy a couple months ago, again, online dating. I should probably have stayed off of it for longer. gah. Though, I don't think that would have changed this situation much.

OK I'm just going to write down all the gory details I can think of, I'm sorting through all of this in my head and everything that's happened. Long post. Oh well. Maybe it will be useful for someone sometime.

This guy was very fun, he has ADHD too, so it took us a while to meet up. Er, well, he made plans a couple times and then dropped the ball a couple times, and then one of the times I was busy with the school play. I was just starting to feel like, I'm not sure I want to meet you anymore actually, when, the evening after the play we were both free at the same time so we went for a little walk with his dog in the nature preserve. It was really chill and relaxed, just an hour, not intense.
I had been thinking that it's unfortunate that I haven't been able to meet new guys except for through online dating because I feel like the kind of guy I'm into wouldn't be on the computer much, but then this one popped up. He started talking about the kind of dance I like to do, that he'd gone and enjoyed it, that totally piqued my interest, and he likes to rock climb, likes music festivals, he seemed to have a busy schedule with his friends, travels for work, yay outdoorsy and adventurous!! Yay!!

Anyways, after the walk, we met up for a tiny bit the next day, then had more of a real date the following day and things were pretty fun!

I had thought of a couple rules for myself for my next dating thing - some of which I followed and some of which I didn't. Well, it was an improvement over last time. I suppose we are and always will be works in progress. In no particular order:

Rule #1: Don't get really intense and personal on first date. Opens me up to being manipulated. I did this with previous guy because I wanted to be honest, but I can do that without all the details. The last guy, without thinking very much, knew exactly all the things he had to say to make me want to date him and get really serious really quick because I told him all the things. Better to chat and cover the basics - job, hobbies, pets, etc.

Rule #2: No really long first dates. Keep it to an hour. Too intense. Need space to think.

Rule #3: No kissing on first date. No sleeping together on first date. Whatever if you're just looking for a hook up. Not ultimately what I want though.

Rule #4: Don't go on first date, and then another date the next day, and another date the next day...have a couple of days in between dates to take time to reflect. (Yeah, not good at this one.)

Rule #5: No making plans/commitments that are farther out than the amount of time that you have been dating for at least the first 6 months. (Like, you've been dating for a month, and you make a plan for a trip that's two months out, then things fall apart, sucky.)

Maybe a Good Idea for a Rule #6: Don't spend a lot of time communicating via text. This is so hard though because I think my generation is young enough that a lot of us communicate over text, it's just so easy, and I don't want to come off as uninterested. Tricky. I also am good at articulating thoughts when I write them down.
I read an article that referred to this as 'textimacy". Sort of, false intimacy. Well, anyways.

I don't know what to make of the fact that the last guy I dated, AND this guy, both brought up moving in together and other serious things like, within the first month. Like, not just, "living with a girlfriend is something I would like to do someday", but, "I know this is crazy but I wish you could just move in with me," or, "when is it ok to start talking about moving in?" etc. etc.

Anyways, this one, we had a lot of fun for like a little over a month, it felt so easy and chill. We progress to saying boyfriend and girlfriend. He is very happy, charming, energetic, popular. We would go out to eat, or have dinner at home or make breakfast at home, very fun to spend with him, we like the same types of music. Was not a problem if I was doing lesson planning, he would work or garden or video game ..... he had fun ideas for trips we could go on, we had some acquaintances in common, he liked to hear me play when I practiced. He liked that he could do his own thing and I could do my own thing and we could keep each other company. After the last guy, I was glad about this too. His friends were jealous that I was so chill about games, I didn't get it.

I started getting stressed from work, getting close to the concert, that must have been like 3 weeks ago, and some other stuff too, health related. Anyways, there were a couple of times where it seemed like...I dunno, I will always need to be able to vent about work, and I need a partner who can be sympathetic, and ok with the fact that I'm not always happy hunky-dory all the time, it's just not possible. I'm trying not to wallow but, I am going to be stressed a lot at the end of the year, in December, and in April **shrug** I got very self conscious that he was maybe tired of me being this way, I was worried about him being like the last couple of guys. I don't know if I made it up in my head or if I was taking a cue from the way he was behaving but I started to feel self conscious/sensitive about it. I'm actually really not sure why that happened...I mentioned wanting to find a guy that would be sympathetic, and I think he felt like that was a rejection but I meant it as a reflection...I'm not sure...also, I was trying to plan out some logistics for a thing we needed to do, and he got frustrated, I think it was an ADHD I can't hold all of this information in my head and follow what you're trying to tell me type of frustrated, but he did not express what the problem was, and the whole tone of his voice and way he ended the conversation SUPER DUPER hurt my feelings. Anyways, I feel that he started getting a little cold and less affectionate after that.

THEN...the video games. So, now I'm in a place where I'm feeling a little hurt, stressed from work, confused and wanting reassurance. But then like, I would be at his place, in the evening, I'd maybe be finishing up lesson plans for the next day so we can hang out, and he'd get a text from his friends to come play and off he'd go. So I'd finish up my work and be like, um, hm, ok well...I guess...I' a little more work then...still not done games? ok, well, it's time for bed anyways...and toddle off to bed by myself, and he'd come in later. So, also, the upstairs walls are pretty thin so I can hear when he's typing on the keyboard, plus everything he's saying to his friends, so like, not good for getting to sleep. I mentioned this to him. He said he would be less loud...........

I started to try saying, I'd like doing XYZ thing tonight, to let him know I did want to hang out, and he would say, ok, and then, text from his friends, off he'd go again! If we are at my place, he will plan on leaving to go play video games, or play video games first and come over to my place to fall asleep. He doesn't like being at my place though because my internet sucks and he can't really use his laptop for games.

So, like, now I'm SUPER missing his affectionate self, and trying to sort out why so rejected and lonely all of a sudden.

He had to leave for a work trip, after which I had a gig, so we were going to go a week without seeing each other. Two nights before that we had a dunno, fight, miscommunication, right at bedtime. I dunno. I totally got the cold shoulder, like, I'm going to stay awake and read things about computers on my iPhone but not talk to you. It was horrible. Finally a couple hours of tossing and turning later we talked about it. I told him I felt I should maybe just stay at home the next day so we could have some space as I felt like we weren't getting along very well. He said he didn't know what I was talking about. We talked a little more and clarified stuff and things felt a little better. So, I thought we were all good, I came over the next day after work, we're not going to see each other for a week after that AND, I had NO lesson planning I had to do for the next day. I had done all of my work, for the first time in I can't even remember how long, I had a free week night. We hung out for a bit, dinner, some funny youtube videos, and then he said, he was going to play video games in a half hour. I say,
"What?! How long are you going to play for?"
"Two hours" he says.
"Two HOURS?! Really?! We're not going to see each other for a whole WEEK." (He asks me to explain the logistics of this again, he is coming back the day I leave.) "Sadfaaaaace! :( I wanted to spend time with you tonight." He says he'll play for less time, like an hour and a half. I'm still hurt. He says he doesn't understand, we just spent time together, he really wants to check out this new game...well, ok, sounds exciting, I say.
And 30 minutes later, off he goes! And there I am, alone at his apartment, what am I going to do? I guess I'll get some work done? What the hell. I didn't come over here to do work. I'm trying so hard to not always be working. I even offered to not come over last night so we could have some space. I have a free night, I'm at my boyfriend's, and I'm sitting here totally alone right now. I'm such a loser. WATERWORKS. Maybe I'll just go home and hang out with kitty. Such a loserloserloser. Beating myself up not working. I start thinking about how this just isn't working for me, I feel jealous of video games for crying out loud. What if I was LIVING with him and I didn't even have another apartment to go to? I'd just be stuck here listening to him play, every little keyboard click ******* me off even more. I'd probably be cleaning up after him actually. That's what he said one of his friend's girlfriend's does. CRYCRYCRY. I start coming up with a plan to talk to him reasonably about it when he's done playing, that on a night before we're going to not see each other for a while, I really need it to be a me-and-him-night, no video games. Please.
Then he calls me upstairs because he wants to show me something in the game, I look like I've been crying and try to wash my face so he won't see. I come upstairs and he can tell immediately that I'm upset. He asks what's wrong, I say we can talk about it after. He says is it because he's playing. I say yes, but let's just talk about it later, you do your thing. He says impatiently that now he can't because he feels bad. I am flustered, and start crying, I say it doesn't matter, let's talk about it when you're done. But he stops playing and comes downstairs, he says what did you want to do? He still seems frustrated. I say I don't know, we could watch a movie I guess. I feel like a baby. He sets up the TV for a movie, I say thank you. He doesn't respond.

So, we watched the movie and went to bed. We didn't see each other for a week. He also asked me twice when I was coming home and I had to explain the logistics again - like, were you not listening when I was upset that night? I don't get it. I was so confused and up and down this whole time. It was like the end of my 5 year relationship - not good. I'm at least starting to figure out what my warning signs are, even if I don't emotionally sort them all out right away, I know my behavior when things aren't going well. I talk to my friends about it, they are not toooo impressed.

Anyways I get home, he invites me to come to his place straight from the airport. I do, he has to leave for a meeting out of state in the morning, he goes, comes back in the afternoon. We get like 2 seconds together and then he has to work some more. He ends up in a 3 hour phone call with his boss, I lesson plan while he's working, he likes the company. I realize he probably hasn't eaten in a while and adderall makes me not hungry but I probably should be, I dig out something in kitchen and bring it up, he is SO grateful. I'm feeling a little anxious because I need to go home at some point but I decide I want to help him out and we should have a real dinner. I'm so bad at this but he does have a lot of Willow-friendly easy options so I start to figure stuff out. I'm not very efficient. I burn a couple things, ergh. Anyways, he comes down right when I'm finishing up and he is grateful and happy. We eat together sort of, since I didn't go home I had put some laundry in so I was trying to deal with that. He says he needs to unwind....he's going to play some video games with the guys. I'm like...ok...well...I guess I should go home at some point. It would be nice to go for a swim? He says he'll play for a bit and then come over to my place. I say ok...I go home, so many things to do at home, why didn't I just come over here earlier? We didn't even get to hang out. Why couldn't he unwind with me? He gets there at like 10 PM. Time for bed. Light's out. I really wanted to spend time with him, but now he's asleep. This sucks. I'm so hurt. I don't sleep, again.

Next morning his dog wakes me up, I'm so tired and grumpy because I haven't slept enough and now I have to go to work. Crycrycry. Teachteachteach. I come home and am not sure if I should call him, I'm being ridiculous, I call him. He seems happy, he asks what my dinner plans are? We plan on 1. nap, 2. figure out dinner. I try to let him know, in kind of a confusing way cuz I was tired, that I am sad that we haven't really spent time together and I want to do something fun. At first he seems confused, then he says ok how about XYZ restaurant and then a game of cards? YAY I say. We do restaurant, and during cards...he gets a text. I wonder if it's a request to play video games. He responds to text. I tell myself I'm being ridiculous and I shouldn't associate all texts with video games. It's like being jealous of an ex girlfriend I SWEAR! He wouldn't go off and play video games now, really, we're hanging out. We finish card game. He says do you want to play again or go to bed? I had originally thought about sleeping at home because my concert is the next day, but I decide I'd rather stay and snuggle and it's a little late anyways. We brush teeth, get ready for bed, halfway up the stairs, "I'm just gonna bang out a game with Mike before bed, I'll be in in a bit." ...... "Baby. It's 10:30. It's time for bed. I need to sleep." He looks apologetic, "I'll be really quiet." "Baby you're going to wake me up when you come in the room." "I'll be quick." I can't think of anything else to say. I go to bed. I am so frustrated. I have a concert tomorrow, he knows that, I decided to stay here instead of go home, I should've gone home, I WOULD have gone home if I had realized he was going to just be playing games. Air conditioner covers up the sound of him playing but I'm still mad. I decide if he's not done by 11 and I'm not asleep I'm getting in the car and driving home, or something drastic. 11 rolls around, I get up out of bed, storm into office, talk to him like he's one of my students, it's 11, I have a concert tomorrow, time for bed NOW, he cowers, he comes in room, we sleep on absolute opposite sides of bed.

I am very upset in the morning. I cry again. He asks what's wrong. I say the video gaming thing. We finally talk about it. He is staring at wall and I am staring out the window, kind of snuggled up. He says he doesn't understand, we did spend time together, I say I feel like video games can pop up at any time and off he goes and it makes me feel so lonely. I want to spend time with you and you are texting with your friends about video games! He says I sent THREE texts, that's it, and I told Mike I was playing cards with you and I would get back to him later. I said, you couldn't just say no Mike, I'm spending time with Willow? He says he wants to be able to do his own thing, it's what he does with his friends, they play for an hour or so every day. It's their thing. Or they go out to dinner or go rock climbing. I say I don't want to stop him from doing things he wants to do, I don't mean to be pushy. He says if it's a date night he won't play video games. I ask what last night was, wasn't that a date night? He says he guesses he is more independent than me. At first I'm like yeah I guess so. And then I say, you are going to play video games with friends, I'm just sitting here alone, it's not like I can go do something with friends at 10 ******* 30 at night, that's time that I would normally think of spending with my significant other, cuddling and talking and falling asleep, not my friends. I feel like we haven't really talked in forever. He is silent. I say, I mean what were you envisioning last night? You were going to play video games and then what? He says cuddle and go to sleep. I say it was 10:30 at night! That was bedtime! What am I supposed to do in the meantime while I'm here by myself? I'm going to go to sleep without you! He doesn't say anything, I feel the guilt. I notice what time it is and I am LATE. LATE. LATE. I jump out of bed and apologize for running away, he says it's ok we can talk about this later. In my head I say he doesn't care, he's glad I'm leaving and we don't have to talk about it anymore. I feel stupid for apologizing.

I'm also late for work. Should have gone home after cards last night.

On the way to work I text this:
"Listen, I gotta say, the comment about you being more independent than me - it's setting off alarm bells right now, it's ironic because you brought up us living together within the first month of us dating, and like, you remember meeting my friend Chris, and he commented on their being a lot of talk from you about us buying appliances together. I also just was broken up with for traveling too much, lol you know? I'm like going from way too independent to not independent enough here :P I think you - everyone really - should be careful in all relationship scenarios of using "you're not independent enough" as a cop out. Everyone wants to feel like relationships are a 2 way street. Somehow or other, I'm not feeling that right now, but I think I can be happy and independent if I do..."
"Hey, sorry, been running today. I think I meant more that I like to have some personal time to unwind/do my own thing...Sometimes it's games, sometimes it's climbing, sometimes it's just taking a nap...Not that you're not independent, just that I like to have that personal time to do things that I want to do"
"Ok, I mean yeah, I do understand that, of course...I think I feel like, why have a date night if you really need playing games time? That's fine it you need that, it really is, like I have things I can do at home too for sure. Like, ok, you were considering sleeping in the other room last night so that you wouldn't wake me up (though, I appreciate the thought), in that case, I mean I'm not at your apartment so I can sleep by myself, you know? Like, I've barely been at home and I'm tired and kind of anxious, I have a big big thing I've been preparing for...a snuggle before bed would have felt soo so nice. But, if you needed you alone time after dinner, if you had let me know, I would've gone home and like spent the night with kitty which would've also been useful for me and a little easier this morning. I dunno, I just, I feel like it's not that considerate if I come over to see you to have you disappear like that."

No response, I go to therapist and vent everything. She says I need to think about whether or not I'm willing to be in a relationship with a video game addict. She talks to me about some ways to deal with the conflict, stating what my needs are and not getting into you're not independent enough, or you're this, or you're that, just here are my needs, right or wrong, and can we make this work or not. I'm starting to feel like I'm not stupid, I'm just me, here I am, up to a certain point I can compromise, and after that I can't make myself feel ok, no matter how I try.

I get home and text:
"I think if we're both hoping to have a serious relationship, then I feel like we should talk more specifically about what that means exactly, specifically what we need/want or don't need/want in a partner, and see if this makes sense for us. I think I know myself pretty well, but I definitely feel like I need more information about what your ideal lifestyle would be with a partner, and I can't tell if I fit what you're looking for. Maybe not tonight, but, I would like to talk about this before we spend a whole lot more time together."
"That seems fair. Sorry this isn't all going very well... I do like you... But I think I'm feeling frustrated, as are you :("
(Honestly, I'm feeling SO curious - what the hell are you frustrated about? You have not told me you were feeling frustrated. Why haven't you said that before now? Are you frustrated that I want you to sometimes say no to video games??)
"Thanks, yeah, I like you too. Maybe we should take a day or two apart for a bit and have a little break/perspective - er, I feel like I really need that - and like talk over the weekend or something if you're free."
"OK that works...I'm out-of-state tonight anyhow"
"OK, yeah I was wondering. Well, maybe like Sunday would be good that way you can have some time at home too. Anyways, whatever, I think you said you were climbing Saturday, I'm free sometime on Friday and def Sunday so, you can let me know what works."

No response. I'm saying to myself, He doesn't care. We're gonna talk on Sunday [maybe, if I hear from him again] and he's gonna say he doesn't want to date anymore. Whatever. I want to throw my phone in the ocean.......I don't live near an ocean. Screw you. Why should I be hurt? He was so fun and nice at first. I am not as interesting as video games. I stress out about work and video games don't. Whatever. Whateverwhatever. (Didn't even talk about two best friends and their gaming habits. One of them has dated his girlfriend for 10 years, she wants to get married, he says he's waiting for the right time, she apparently does ALL chores around the house and he does nothing. I mean he does not seem like a jerk, but lazy - I guess! Both of his friends did not share their video gaming habits with their girlfriends until their girlfriends moved in with them, and both of their girlfriends roll their eyes when games come up. It does not seem like it's something anybody is handling well. I would HATE to be trapped in that.)

06-14-17, 10:32 PM
Your therapist is not wrong, and neither are your thoughts and feelings about this.

Your time is limited, so don't waste it. Go find that person who can love willow the way willow needs to be loved, and who you can love in mutual reciprocity.

You've been clear about those things which contribute to your happiness.

Find the person who finds joy in seeing you happy, and who you would will to see happy in like kind.


06-15-17, 04:07 AM
IMO there's a game culture that if you're not part of it you won't want to be involved with someone who is.

The other things, deeper more significant things, that you've said - all still true and valid. But I think even the basic thing about clashing cultures can kind of settle it.

06-15-17, 05:12 AM
I agree with DVD, there is a culture in the gamer world and if you are not a part of it you will aways be second fiddle. You deserve undivided attention and he cant give you that. I think you should cut your losses.

06-15-17, 06:42 AM
I hadn't thought of it that way....gaming world culture, if you're not part of it you're second fiddle...(heh, nice music reference) do you think there are a lot of hobbies like this, I mean I'm a musician (not really a hobby for me, but whatever) I think there are musicians who can be this way but it's not necessarily part of the culture...
I dated a guy in college who was a huge gamer, but there was no conflict if I wanted to hang out, I think he knew I could easily walk away and he didn't want was absolutely never an issue. how nice, right, wish I could go back to that :P not really actually, he didn't have a lot of drive otherwise...anyways, that seems like it was maybe outside the norm.
I feel a tiny bit misled, but I also feel like this guy is misleading himself. He made a big deal about wanting someone who has their own "thing", so that we can spend time together but also be independent. He liked that I have a thing I'm passionate about - music, dancing, teaching music - and he said his thing is rock climbing, and that dating outside the rock climbing culture can be a difficult thing. Well I can see why that would be a problem, but I would love to try rock climbing!! I like hiking and camping. I like being outside. I've met his rock climbing friends, and some of them remind me of my folk music friends. They're nice :) I thought, to me, that is a pretty attractive thing to have be your thing, I can definitely deal with that.
In reality though, he has said he would like to take me rock climbing, but we have made no progress in that direction. In the time I've known him, it's something he has done twice. Saying that video games are something that he likes to do for an hour everyday, that's not even accurate. Try like 6 hours in a day on the weekend. His main thing, from what I see, isn't really rock climbing, it's video games. That's a really different guy! If video gamer had been more obvious right at the beginning, like say, on his profile - he said he has a geeky computer nerd side too but not really gamer I don't think - I don't think I would have responded to his message even. It doesn't fit the lifestyle I like, and also after a certain amount of time per day on it, it's unattractive to me. I think that he knows that there are girls who feel this way- turned off by video games- and also he made a comment about it being a problem for girlfriends in the past so I think he doesn't want to bring it up right away. Should've investigated that further. :( this sucks. I really liked him so much at the beginning, it did feel so easy and I felt good about myself and the things I like to do when I was around him. I feel degraded being second to video games. Sigh.
Anyways I know I said I'd wait till Sunday, but I feel a little more clear on the things I can/can't deal with so I think I might write him an email when I'm done with work today or tomorrow.

06-15-17, 07:00 AM
It doesn't sound to me like you could be happy with him willow, my advice is if video games is a deal breaker it's better to cut your losses than try to make something work that isn't going to work :grouphug:

06-15-17, 08:54 AM
Yeah I ditto what everyone else posted. I'm a gamer myself, but I'm honest enough to know that I really couldn't care less about dating. I barely even care about my own needs as a gaming addict, so how would I be able to care about anyone else? Last time I took a plant home and thought it would be cool to take care of... forgot about it, the plant wilted and died... yeah... so much for that... lol (word of advice, don't let me take care of your plants :p).

I think the guy just needs to get real with himself. Obviously gaming is more important to him.

06-15-17, 11:00 AM
I haven't had a great deal of experience in this, but the game goes off when your together.

06-15-17, 11:26 AM
I haven't had a great deal of experience in this, but the game goes off when your together.

its no different than having a partner that is constantly checking their phone while you are talking or watching a movie. With romantic relationships its beyond rude. There is NOTHING on facebook that you need to see while talking and listening to your partner. Facebook and emails can wait.

06-15-17, 05:07 PM
Man, you guys are right, I can't argue with you. I just keep wanting to blame myself, like something's wrong with me, or maybe I scared him away by being stressed about work so he wasn't interested in me. I totally know that if I was giving advice to me, I'd be like, state your needs, or forget about this guy right now, and be glad you only dated him for 2 months...

I also am kind of assuming, I'm not sure why but my instinct tells me and I've been through this enough times now that I'm probably not wrong, that he's not going to really want to talk or figure things out on Sunday. He never responded to that message. He's in a position where it's not exactly difficult for him to just shrug and walk away and put no more effort into this - I mean, he can do that if he wants to, it just sucks for me, I'm not really sure why this started with so much enthusiasm and then went downhill.

Meeting all his friends, he would tell them how nice I am, how "normal" I am, they were all excited about it. He took me out to dinner with his Dad, he told his MOM he wanted us to move in I wasn't even telling my parents I had a boyfriend lol. I'm not close with my parents so that's not necessarily relevant but, I've been stung before for sure. How many times this happens is SO weird, I start dating people and they are like oh my gosh you are so wonderful and amazing, but then suddenly I am not worthy of compromise.

What the heeeck. What is going on here? I mean the last guy turned out to be like stalker weird, like, he was still sending me texts and emails as of like 3 weeks ago. He's FINALLY stopped, I think. (The texts were like, "I just drove by you in my convertible, that's the 3rd time I've seen you this week" that kind of thing. Super creepy.)

The thing I can think of right now is, insisting on taking things slower would help weed these people out, I think, and protect me a little bit - like establishing that I have a need not to get totally sucked in and burned (lol), but you know, like getting respect for a need right off the bat...

06-15-17, 06:32 PM
I wouldn't call myself a gaming addict. I game usually 1-2 hours on weekdays, and maybe 2,3,4 hours on weekends, not very often because I like to go boating on the weekends. But I don't let it interfere with my life as a reality. I certainly don't let it take precedence when I'm with my girlfriend, or family. I wish willow could have found the right guy that can properly balance between the gaming world and the real world. This gives proper gamer's a bad name.

best wishes and good luck to you willow in your dating life.

06-15-17, 06:41 PM
I'm a gamer girl, and I can tell you two are not going to be compatible. Me, I'd be setting up my computer and playing right along, or going off to do my own thing when I feel like it.

I think it's sad that you're feelings got involved, but I wouldn't give up games for someone in my life either.

As others have said, it's a culture.

06-15-17, 06:41 PM
Online is a very difficult way for you (I mean you personally) to meet people. What you see is never what you get, even when the guy is doing his best to be honest. (And of course not all are doing their best either. :()

When you finally see someone who you met online, give it the same caution you'd give a blind date that was set up by someone you don't like.

I'm too blunt, but unfortunately you seem to have a thing for guys who don't respect you. It's happened too many times in a row to be an accident. There are ways out of that, but it takes a lot of thought and a lot of care on your part. Knowing that you do have some wrong instincts to overcome is a start, at least. But you're unlikely to accidentally meet the right guy while you're actively looking for the wrong one.

06-15-17, 07:50 PM
I'm a gamer girl, and I can tell you two are not going to be compatible. Me, I'd be setting up my computer and playing right along, or going off to do my own thing when I feel like it.

I think it's sad that you're feelings got involved, but I wouldn't give up games for someone in my life either.

As others have said, it's a culture.

Ok, I wouldn't give up music either.

This is just me complaining about stuff I can't change: If he had said on his profile that he was really into gaming, I probably wouldn't have responded to his message, honestly, because I just don't share that interest, but his profile was more outdoorsy. Our third date, he told me he was gaming before I got to his house, and his friend shot him so he would die in the game, and he was all "hey! whacha do that for?" and his friend said "I'm doing you a favor buddy!" Like, I don't get that, I've never tried to hide my clarinet from someone! :lol::lol::giggle: That does actually make me laugh. Why not just say what you are? Or if you're so into gaming that you can't get off the computer for a date, why the heck are you dating? :doh::doh::confused::confused: hUH?? His 2 best friends are both dating girls who are not gamers, btw.

This is more relevant to current situation:In my defense, I have never asked him to give up games. That wasn't something I was considering, I think he can have an interest in games or whatever the heck he wants to have an interest in, and conduct that interest in a way that is respectful to his partner's needs, or in a way that's not respectful to his partner's needs. AND, I actually did start playing a game that he thought we could do together that I might like. I'm not opposed to doing that, and I did that with my college boyfriend who was really into games. I mean, I'm not a gamer, but I can take an interest in the things my partner is interested in because my partner is interested in them. If it makes them happy for me to join in sometimes, I don't mind. I want to have a partner where we have fun doing STUFF together. I mean I like to have variety, I would think it was dull if that was the only thing we did, but games are ok to mix in, and he seemed to be interested in doing a lot of different things anyways, like dancing, hiking, camping, music festivals, rock climbing. Anyways, I can be flexible, but I want some flexibility in return. I think that's the problem here...Whatever. I don't know.

Online is a very difficult way for you (I mean you personally) to meet people. What you see is never what you get, even when the guy is doing his best to be honest. (And of course not all are doing their best either. )

Yeah. I think online really depends on how well people know themselves and then how well they can communicate that, and there's no way to know how well they're doing that find out, one way or the other >.<

When you finally see someone who you met online, give it the same caution you'd give a blind date that was set up by someone you don't like.

Ha!!! I like that.

I'm too blunt, but unfortunately you seem to have a thing for guys who don't respect you. It's happened too many times in a row to be an accident. There are ways out of that, but it takes a lot of thought and a lot of care on your part. Knowing that you do have some wrong instincts to overcome is a start, at least. But you're unlikely to accidentally meet the right guy while you're actively looking for the wrong one.

Too blunt: it's ok, sometimes I have hated it when people were too blunt but it also has been powerfully helpful at times. I value your opinion. I really do want to know what the ways out of this pattern are. Are there resources for this?! I feel like where I'm getting off would probably be so obvious to anyone observing, and with all the times I've shared what's going on with me and break ups here, I am starting to feel like a broken record, but I'm really not sure...what I need to do....I don't seems like there are people in my life, I have a few guy friends, who do respect me and make it clear that they think well of me, but I'm not attracted to them for this or that reason or it just wouldn't work cuz they don't live near me or whatever. Then I wonder like, well, where are the other guys like you? Why does it seem so extraordinary that you exist? And sometimes, why am I not attracted to you?

I don't know, maybe it has to do with my upbringing, I mean, my parents relationship with each other was my mom manipulating and my dad enabling. And then with their kids it was neglect and emotional abuse. I was trying to be honest with myself in the really long post - when boyfriend goes off to play his games and I'm sitting there alone, all the bad voices come around - like, you're boring, you're selfish, you're a brat, you're so pathetic it's hilarious, you're stupid, and then I'm fighting and telling myself I AM nice, I'm a likable person, people like me...And I know often with boyfriends that's where I freeze on being able to say - hey, dude! this is what I need in a relationship! Because I'm like too busy having this huge self esteem battle inside me. I guess that's probably crazy that someone going to play video games would trigger that response in me. I guess that's my own problem to fix. I think I probably do need more reassurance than is attractive as far as relationships go, but I can work on it.....and I still think I'm not wrong to have boundaries and want flexibility and some undivided attention for reassurance.

I am so glad I can vent here. I don't have a lot of people I am comfortable sharing stuff like this with in real life.

06-15-17, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't call myself a gaming addict. I game usually 1-2 hours on weekdays, and maybe 2,3,4 hours on weekends, not very often because I like to go boating on the weekends. But I don't let it interfere with my life as a reality. I certainly don't let it take precedence when I'm with my girlfriend, or family. I wish willow could have found the right guy that can properly balance between the gaming world and the real world. This gives proper gamer's a bad name.

best wishes and good luck to you willow in your dating life.

I try not to judge the activity. I can see why games are fun and absorbing for sure. I find a certain amount of willingly sitting in front of a computer unattractive, but, look at me right now, I've been on this forum for hours now!! Like I said, I dated a guy in college who games and he is and was a sweet, funny, smart person who was as attentive as he could possibly be to me. It is not the games that makes someone a bad partner, no way.

My therapist said addiction because she said, he can't regulate his behavior (receiving and responding to texts while we're supposed to be hanging out, inability to say no) and it's affecting his relationships negatively (Ours, but he also vaguely mentioned that games have been a problem with others in the past.)

Johnny Slick
06-15-17, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I, too, can dump a bunch of time into games, and several of my best friends are people I only interact with online (I mean, we've all met IRL but day-to-day we converse in old school IRC chatrooms), but yeah... there's just got to be moderation. Especially if you want to date people who aren't so much into games. At that point it kind of ceases to be really about video games, right? Like, if you were to date someone who was really, really into... playing the piano (I know you're a musician so this might not land, but hear me out?) to the extent that they practiced several hours a day in addition to work, didn't have a lot of friends outside of the piano playing community, and just plain found it hard to relate to or get interested by things that are non-piano related, wouldn't that also not work terribly well in the long term? At some point both parties have to be flexible, and a dude pouring in 6 hours of "me" time while girlfriend wants to *something* else isn't being all that flexible.

But... man, it *is* worse than that, isn't it? Like, for one thing, it's just a fact that the gaming community as a whole has a really toxic attitude towards women. That doesn't mean that every single gamer feels that way but it's absolutely something you run up against, like, all day every day depending on what you're playing. Also, maybe it's just me but I don't really know of a lot of people who are gamers but also really passionate about it. Writing games is one thing, playing them is another thing entirely. I know I"m overgeneralizing here but it is a thing I've seen. And I don't know about y'all but I personally can put up with a lot of stuff if the person I'm with loves to do something and is able to express it.

I guess in that sense it's more like reading, in an alternate universe where reading had this really toxic masculine culture built up around it?

06-15-17, 09:05 PM
Attraction is a complex mixture of many different things, including your own lifetime of experiences, and the attitudes you have toward those experiences.

One frequent theme is that children tend to absorb the expectations and habits of their parents and the other adults they see regularly. I'm sure you've encountered the little kid who suddenly out of nowhere says something shockingly "bad" - normally they're just copying their parents, right? Well, it's not just Mom and Dad's four-letter words we copy - it's their attitudes and habits for relationships, too. Or we can have a bad first relationship, get out of that one, but then continue making copies of it for the rest of our life. Habits are huge.

I know a guy who's always looking for junk cars to fix, because when he succeeds it feels good. That's OK for him. But a lot of people are that way with relationships too - always searching for the fatally-flawed beauty who can be triumphantly repaired and put on display. Not so good.

I'm not saying you're any of these ways - I'm saying attraction is complicated and mysterious - and sometimes badly mistaken.

DJ Bill
06-16-17, 10:37 AM
Having known several gaming addicts doesn't make me an expert on things....and I am a bit old fashioned. I'd be thinking of changing my phone number ( or just using caller ID) by now if I was you, and anything physical between you has to stop. Don't let the next guy become physical until you have a good friendship going on and you know he's someone you might want to live the rest of your life with.

Once the game starts, everything else fades into oblivion, and unfortunately you are part of that everything else. Marriage with that dynamic going on won't work either.

You deserve better.

06-16-17, 10:52 AM
Yeesh...I just spent yesterday evening and this morning writing a really long email with my needs and stuff, non-negotiables, to make things really I'm wondering if I shouldn't even bother sending it... I mean, it would be nice to have closure, if he says yeah I can't be what you're looking for, that does make it much easier for me to happily move on.
And I guess if he doesn't reply, then he didn't care enough to do that, that's a little more difficult to move on, but I have some fun gigs coming up to keep me occupied and I will strive to find someone better next time.

The other option is, he does reply, says he can accommodate, but doesn't really know whether he can, or mean it, and we go through this again in a month...hmmmm

06-16-17, 10:52 AM
(Or he replies, accommodates, and we live happily ever after!!! ;) haha)

06-16-17, 11:31 AM
Here's what I wrote him, I hope it's not terrible and dumb. He is going to be J now.
A couple of things - he has ADHD too.
The health thing I've been dealing with is scabies. That's probably important to mention if I'm going to get advice from you guys, but I'm embarrassed. I got them, have no clue where from, treated it, tried but didn't clean my house sufficiently I guess, met J, we started dating, and then it seemed the scabies came back. I went to doc, was misdiagnosed, they got worse, went to another doc, and they said yup it's scabies again. So, it's been embarrassing and stressful and time consuming. Scabies don't live without human contact after 3 days so I asked if I could stay at J's place, to clear out my place, and I thought we could coordinate that before a work trip for him so he would then leave his place, we would treat ourselves, and then hopefully that would work. I meant it as an easier way for us to deal with it, especially because the other option, cleaning my apartment and his house top to bottom...I knew that that was going to be difficult for both of us. He thought this was a good plan too, we did talk about it, but that's a lot to deal with right at the beginning of a relationship you know? Ugh, this suuuucks.

Hi J
Have you thought about things? What are your feelings? Do you want to tell me what you want ideally in a relationship?

You said in a text that you were feeling frustrated. You hadn’t ever said that before - why are you frustrated?

I’m sorry this is so epically long, I hope you can read all of it…sometimes I feel reading things is easier than hearing things because I can’t focus sometimes when I’m listening. I hope you don’t feel like I’m pestering, I just figured I’ll get this off my chest and then I can focus on other things and you can read it sometime this weekend when you have a chance.

I’ve been thinking about where things started going wrong and I feel like it was when I was stressed out about work and then stayed with you. I am sorry if I was pushy and I invaded your space, it seems like it was a bad idea. I don’t really know. I was stressed about work and I didn’t want to have to wash every single piece of laundry and bedding and towel in my apartment AGAIN and cleancleanclean, plus then have you do that, because I know we both are just not good at that. But we CAN keep reinfecting each other if one of us has scabies, so I was trying to come up with a smart way that would work for us to deal with it. It affects you too, I’m embarrassed about it and I was trying to make it easier. It was done with good intentions for you and me. 3/4 days staying at your place, it was probably too much too soon. I do appreciate you letting me and Oliver stay there.

It did make it clear though that video games are a thing in your life which is important…

I have a feeling you’re not interested in dating me now, but I’m part of this online support group for people with ADHD. Anyways, I’ve used it for years, lately mostly to share my relationship woes and get advice. There’s a lot of different people, all different ages and interests and whatnot. Their overwhelming advice to me is that there’s a gaming culture that if I’m not a part of it, I won’t want to be involved with someone who is. Maybe they’re right, they usually are, I don’t know, you know more about said culture than I do, and you know a little about me now so maybe you have an opinion on this.

I dated someone in college who was really into gaming. We dated for 2 years and lived together for some of that. He was attentive to me, I don’t remember ever fighting with games for his attention. He would show me new games and everything and tell me about the graphics, or the jokes or what he liked about them. Sometimes I played some silly games with him and that was fun :) I am a caring partner, and I’m very dedicated and loyal and I do place value on the things my partner is interested in, because my partner is interested in them. I like learning about and I can participate in their things. I am flexible and my partner’s needs are important to me, but it has to be a 2 way street.

I have so many questions about what you want - if I’m going to date somebody, I need to know that my needs are going to be important to them. I absolutely believe that family and relationships come before video games. What are your thoughts on those things? Are we compatible that way? To me - video games don’t have physical and emotional wants and needs, people do. HOWEVER, I know that YOU, a person, need downtime, and that’s fine, communicate that to me. I want to accommodate as much as I can. HOWEVER, you need down time, but I need companionship, that’s why I’m in a relationship. I want someone who is going to be my partner. Do you want that too? I want someone who will do things with me and pay attention to me and talk to me. I want someone who would potentially have a family with me, and be partners in that too. And, you know this, but for the record - I am also not the kind of partner who would like doing stuff for us, like chores or unpacking, by myself while you have downtime. I need to have downtime too and I have ADHD too. Maybe there are girls who like this kind of relationship, kinda being the mom and taking care of stuff, but I’m not one of them.

(Oh my god Oliver is being so cute right now, his little pawsypaws and noseynose)

You have talked about us doing different things together. You talked about camping, and traveling to places, and you’re a good cook and it was fun to figure out dinners with you…it was so fun to hang out with you…I am mostly from a social culture that actively participates in things, like dancing, and playing music, so that kind of Stuff is my favorite. I’m open to a lot of different things. So if you are still interested in doing Stuff, if you want that in a relationship, I like to do that too…

I feel that when we first met you talked a lot about you have a thing, I have a thing, it’s good that we both have things. You said your thing was rock climbing. You seemed concerned with me being ok with you having a thing that I’m not necessarily a part of… Since I’ve known you, you’ve been rock climbing twice, I am totally interested in trying it with you if you want, and it’s not something that has been a reason for us not to spend time together. You spend far more time video gaming. I have a theory that the “thing” that you were concerned about me not being a part of was more video gaming than rock climbing. Rock climbing as a thing and video gaming as a thing, those are 2 pretty different interests and lifestyles. You mentioned very vaguely at some point, that gaming has been an issue in the past with girls. Maybe that’s something for you to think about, and maybe being really up front about that being an important thing, you’ll find some girls who fit better into that culture if that’s what you prefer.

When you are playing games, please understand that to me it can feel like you’ve left the house to hang out with friends. This is fine sometimes and not fine others. If I’m at your house, it leaves me with not a lot of options to entertain myself except solitary activities like work. Again - I want companionship. I am trying to work less, not more, and this kind of thing makes me feel like I’m being encouraged to be a workaholic which is not healthy for me. J, let’s be realistic - I work 2 jobs, I have to practice, and I travel. I don’t often have the opportunity to be a very clingy girlfriend because I do a lot of things. You would get to have downtime in this relationship, and probably more than a lot of relationships you could be in. There are lots of times that I won't be available. If we keep going and this is still an issue, I'm going to take it that you just don't like me very much. I will do everything I can to make my schedule work with yours, but I need to know what your needs are. Let me know ahead of time that you’re going to be gaming and I’ll plan accordingly. It is an inconvenience to spend a lot of time at your house instead of mine, because I do have things that need to be done at my home. You have, and I’m not exaggerating, told me that you wanted me to come over the next night, even when I offered to not come over and give us space. Then I was there with no other plans or commitments except to spend time with you, and you told me you were going to go play a game for 2 hours. I realize you obviously thought the evening was flexible, but please try to see this from my perspective. That was frustrating. I need someone who can be sensitive and sympathetic, and in this instance when you noticed that I was upset and hurt, and I hadn’t even SAID anything, YOU asked me what was wrong, instead of talking to me or trying to understand why I might be upset, you behaved in a way that made me feel like I was being a nuisance and that spending more time with me was a chore. That hurt my feelings. I did offer to not stay over that night, and you said I should, so I did. I was not trying to cause trouble, I just wanted to be with you and I thought that’s what would happen - especially because we weren’t going to see each other for a week after that. Telling me I should hang out at your place, and THEN deciding that you’re going to have 2 hours in the evening that you don’t care what the hell I do but you’re not available, doesn’t work for me. If I’m at your place, most likely, I’m there to see you, and UNLESS we’ve clarified, agreed, talked, whatever, ahead of time, that we will be doing other things for the evening - I often have work to do but I have tried to let you know that I do - that’s not a good time for you to take off to hang out with friends. I don’t exist to be at anyone’s beck and call, I can’t make myself busy on cue until you’re ready for me again, and I deserve more respect than that.

I’m going to be gone a lot in the fall, I’ll be home one weekend a month at times. A thing that I know is a non-negotiable for me is that if we’re not going to see each other for a while, when I’m available, I will want date nights. Non-Negotiable. Unfortunately, particularly this fall, they will have to be on my schedule because my schedule is not very flexible. I will want them to be you and me, could be friends too, but us doing fun Stuff together, not interrupted by text offers to do other things, NOT me doing solitary stuff while you hang out with friends, and with your undivided attention. I hope that you would want that too, but if you don’t then this won’t work. The other thing is it might take some sitting down and coordinating schedules, it might take you saying no to something because it’s my only free weekend. That might not be desirable for you, so I want you to know about it.

I also…I guess I haven’t ever had a boyfriend who didn’t want to fall asleep together, so it wasn’t something I realized bugs me. I want to fall asleep together like, snuggling, reading, pillow talk, most nights of the week. Gaming at 10:30 at night is physically not something I can live with. This is a PRIORITY because it’s a physical AND emotional need. I need to sleep and get up early and I struggle with getting to sleep as it is, gaming is noisy, and having someone get in bed at 11:30 or whatever wakes me up. I partially have been such a disaster to be around lately because I’m sleep deprived. That’s a little taste of what I’m like, so, it’s not fun for either of us and it’s in both of our best interest for me to get enough sleep. It’s also really lonely, I think you would feel the same in my shoes, to be at your boyfriend’s and he’s not interested in cuddling with you so you fall asleep by yourself. It sucks. If you don’t want to cuddle me, there are others who will.

You were also the one to bring up us living together. I doubt you’re still considering this, but, for the future, think about this from the woman’s, or my, perspective. In my situation, I would be leaving my apartment to move into your house, right? When I was staying at your place, I was thinking about it. If it didn’t work out, say things fell apart during the school year. Then what, for me? I have to find a new place and MOVE in the middle of a school year, and schedule that around gigs. I can’t articulate how hard that would be for me. I was lucky with Cedar that he was the one who moved out, and I stayed in the apartment. If you want a relationship where someone is going to leave their space to live with you, then, there needs to be some security, and obviously assurance that you will care about them, because they’re giving up some independence to be with you. Maybe get to know what their needs are and whether or not you will want to meet those needs before bringing up moving in. I know it’s not something you were like, forcing me to do or think about, but I do feel resentful and hurt that you could be so enthusiastic about me at the beginning, how great I am, you have to tell everyone about me, what a relief that I’m normal, Mom we’re already talking about moving in, blahblahblah, you were so attentive and so sweet to me, it was wonderful, and then 180 to irritation and impatience at me wanting to spend time with you, and then we don’t see each other for a week, and you STILL aren’t that interested in hanging out. I am confused, to me I’m still the same old me I was before, I don’t entirely know what changed, and I’m hurt.

Well, I dunno, I guess that’s everything. You didn’t say if this weekend worked for you…please don’t leave me hanging. I will talk more if you want to, but if it’s time to move on, I want to know that and move on.


Johnny Slick
06-16-17, 11:40 AM
Yeah, I think you got your point across. I will say that when I sent my ex stuff like this, she found the sheer size of it to be oppressive to read and got really mad at me ahead of time just for that. Still, man, I don't know... it's not like this is a thing you can sum up in 3 sentences, and I think that if you did, you'd do so at the expense of explaining *why* this stuff is so important to you, and, yeah, "why" is easily as important as "what" here...

06-16-17, 12:01 PM
Hahahaaa mad at you ahead of time for the oppressiveness. I mean. Yeah. Oh well. I am what I am!!!

Thanks for reading it Johnny, I really appreciate your thoughts, and I do get what you were saying with the piano reference for sure. I was wondering what you meant by this sentence because I think you skipped a word

Also, maybe it's just me but I don't really know of a lot of people who are gamers but also really passionate about it.

06-16-17, 12:15 PM
It may be that this email should be sent to willow129@herown.address for future reference.

Maybe what you've written includes some stuff you wish you had had in mind earlier.

06-16-17, 12:19 PM
...but [who are] also really passionate about it

It's common to leave those words out, but in a longer or more complex sentence it can sometimes confuse the reader.

Johnny Slick
06-16-17, 12:26 PM
Yeah, what dvdnwls said. In a nutshell, I know people who have fun playing video games, and who enjoy the sense of accomplishment in doing so, but I don't feel that same tangible sense of joy with them that I feel when I'm in a room full of musicians or actors who really and truly love what they do.

06-16-17, 12:40 PM
Ah, ok, yes. **nodnod**

Yeah, I'm going to keep these things in mind. Some of this we had talked about a bit, and it seemed like we agreed or were looking for the same things, and some of it not so much...well, now we know I guess.

EDIT: Oh my looooord, creepy ex just sent me an email. Aaaagh go awaaaaay >.<

06-16-17, 01:00 PM
*accidentally on purpose manages to make wonderful willow's creepy ex forget everything about our wonderful willow* :)

You are in the right with knowing what you want willow and not wanting to compromise :grouphug:

06-16-17, 01:56 PM
I agree with what everyone else has said, especially that I think that you got your point across and that most importantly, you know what you want and shouldn't compromise.

As someone with ADHD, I can say that a long email or something like that could be somewhat intimidating and may cause someone not to read it or deal with it. Now for this type of circumstance, I think that is a type of way to help weed someone out. I mean if they don't want to take the time to read through that or even mess with it, then I wouldn't bother with them.

Maybe they read all of it and it can help them decide that you aren't compatible or the opposite. I think you deserve to have this sorted out now instead of being stuck in a limbo-type area for an extended period only to see it not work out and realize how much time was lost.

That's just my two cents, hope that provides some help/insight.

06-16-17, 07:50 PM
I'll simply say that was a pleasure to read for a number of reasons.

Best to You,

06-17-17, 06:34 AM
Oh my god, the break up pain. I'm dying.
He emailed me back, he didn't answer any of my questions, ugh, and, anyways, there were sort of nice things but also things that friend says he's gaslighting...anyways J proposed time away from each other, and maybe check back in and see if we want to try again
I emailed him back, I said I need more specifics on time away, like a timeframe and some rules otherwise I'm just going to obsess

A friend of mine texted and asked if I wanted to go to a movie at the theater near him, I was like, thank god, that will be a good distraction. We went to see Wonder Woman. It was fine, it was entertaining.

I'm walking out of the theater, turn around, there's J walking out behind me. I can't even. He was like, hey!, and I was like hey! and then we were like uuh...and he was like this is weird, and I said yeah it is. I couldn't believe I was seeing him, and he seemed so far away and yet right there in front of me. I didn't know what to do or say **CRY** I know this is so cliche but it was like everything was a dream all of a sudden, I think I was so surprised it like physically affected me. My friend disappeared to the bathroom. I was like I sh-should go, like stammering, and J was like ok, and I stumbled off. It was crazy, like I had tunnel vision and I know there were people around and I was crying but I couldn't really see them, and I couldn't really talk either, I felt like I was drunk, I like fell out the door and I couldn't find my friend and I went back in.

My friend found me and took me out of the theater and we started walking away, but then after a bit was like, do you need to go back there and talk to him? And I was like I don't know, I don't even know if he's still there, I don't know what to say


I texted him when I was going home, I said that was such a shock, he said it's ok, I said I haven't checked my email, I don't know if you responded, I miss you. He took a while and then he said "I don't really know how to respond at the moment" and I was thinking, like, what, why, is it because I was with a guy, my friend said he might have thought we were on a date so I said "Ow ok well, anyways, I don't know how that looked or if you care but that wasn't a date, if you were wondering? This feels so awkward and I was upset and my friend who is a musician, lives in TOWN, asked me if I wanted to go see a movie" No response "I dunno, any he pointed out that I should probably tell you that. Whatever, I'm sorry I told you I miss you. I guess that's not appropriate or helpful. I'm confused and hurt and that turned my world upside down. Ugh anyways I won't bother you I'm sorry"
No response

I mean I know it's not necessarily his business anymore if I'm on a date, but the truth is that I wasn't, and I still want to be with J, you know? so if that has any sway, I want him to know.

I'm probably being pathetic. That seemed like such a cold response. I feel so lost now and all I want is to see him again. WHY DID I HAVE TO SEE HIM THAT JUST MADE IT SO MUCH WORSE

Little Missy
06-17-17, 07:53 AM
please save your kisses.

06-17-17, 10:28 AM
Missy. I'm gonna try so hard. Next time I have a first date I think I should make a t-shirt with all of my rules and wear it so the guy knows where I'm coming from and then I don't also forget them too.

Johnny Slick
06-17-17, 11:03 AM
I don't think it's a bad thing to be the party that cares more, even if you're the one doing the breaking up. I know it leads to getting hurt more often but that in and of itself isn't a reason why it's bad necessarily. Saying this as a person who engages in all kinds of risk avoidant behavior, I think that not doing things because you might get hurt is sometimes the worst reason for not doing things.

I say, hey, you're an artist. Embrace that crap today, wallow in the feelings, try and pick out exactly which ones you're experiencing, don't hold back if you think some of them are shameful (like, if you're feeling relief, experience the relief too!). One day maybe you'll be able to capture that in your music. Or not. There doesn't have to be any reason outside of accepting that you're a sensitive, intelligent person who accepts their own thoughts and feelings without judgement. I think that the number one thing that separates creative people from everyone else is the extent to which we notice more things, about the world around us, about others, and about ourselves.

DJ Bill
06-17-17, 11:07 AM
Stupid question.....who was he there with?

06-17-17, 12:29 PM
He was there with one of his best friends. 'Nuther gamer. (A guy if that's what you're wondering)

This will definitely descend into learning sad break up songs on the guitar and stuff. I wish I felt relief right now but I don't. I definitely sent him an email this morning like begging him to to try again >.< Like maybe take things slower, work on our communication, whatever. I know I'm being stupid, I'm sure that probably made him less likely to want to talk, he doesn't want to hear from me right now and I just hurt a lot. Just that, whoa, hang on, a couple days ago we were still talking to each other. We slept together. Things just changed so much. At least last time I felt like there was a pretty damn good reason, but this just like, what the hell just happened?!

06-17-17, 12:35 PM
I'm confused... Isn't gaslighting a way of messing with your mind by trying to make you doubt your own sanity, convincing you that true is false and false is true?

Was he doing that, too? Ugh. Anybody who is willing to try that, I would advise you to run very fast and not look back.

Or did your friend mean something else?

06-17-17, 03:02 PM
No I think that is what he meant DVD...

er, hm, it's around the idea of being like "cool"/"chill"/"easy going" and whether or not that is desirable or even possible all of the time in a relationship I think. I mean, of course it's nice to be easygoing generally, but there are going to be things about which you are not calm/chill/easygoing and that is not bad. (I think? Right? It's not bad right?) I think my friend was thinking that J was gaslighting if J was making it sound like I'm not being "cool"/"easy going", and that's why things stopped going, yeah...

cool and easy going I'm quoting from the email J sent me...that's what he said he liked about the relationship when it was going well.

He also said he wanted my input on whether or not we should take a break for a while and maybe check back in at a later date...I told him I needed more information on what that would mean or look like, because I don't want to sit around obsessing about him, which is...y'know...what I'm doing right now of course...and I feel so impatient that he hasn't responded to anything I've said. Especially when I know how much time he can spend on a computer >.< I know it hasn't been that long, it's just this whole thing just changed so fast and my feelings haven't kept up obviously. I just want to delete him from my brain if this is how communication goes down. I mean with my previous guy, when he sent me a really long email, I responded, and then told him I wasn't comfortable being in touch. It's not like I said I wanted his input. GAH >.<

Well...I just remembered that he had said to me last week that he would be maybe out climbing today, so, maybe he's just busy actually...calm down Willow, right

Little Missy
06-17-17, 03:31 PM
yeah, just flip it around. let him make the moves. :cool: it works.

never wait.

06-17-17, 04:47 PM
Gaslighting is more like Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. Seriously making you believe you're insane, by claiming for example that a certain event happened when it really didn't, or that you said X when you never did, and so on. Who's chill and who's not chill is just a matter of opinions and attitudes.

06-17-17, 05:06 PM
Gaslighting is more like Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. Seriously making you believe you're insane, by claiming for example that a certain event happened when it really didn't, or that you said X when you never did, and so on. Who's chill and who's not chill is just a matter of opinions and attitudes.

Yep say for example if he harmed your gorgeous cat Oliver then claimed you did it and made you believe you did it, that would be one form of gaslighting I think (I could be wrong)

One example in my own life is an ex making threats of rehoming my much-loved male cat then claiming he never said it and making me doubt what was real and what wasn't.

Little Missy
06-17-17, 05:14 PM
well, i'll tell you what is real. go the Leon route. Topsy turvy.

He plays video games, He's not cruel.

Little Missy
06-17-17, 05:16 PM
don't you worry lil' willer. erase all those emails and he'll be right where you want him. willer in charge. :D

06-17-17, 05:56 PM
Hey Willow

Sorry, it took me so long to write back. I think Mike and I thought you were on a date and we were a little thrown by that, being just a couple hours later and all. Not that it'd be an issue I guess, just kinda caught me off guard.

Anyways, I've been thinking about your emails. I'm not sure I'm 'there' at the moment. I guess I'm feeling a bit discouraged about the idea of us and what it'd take to move forward. Perhaps in some time that will change.... well, it'll change I'm just not sure in what way. I think the best path now, for me, is to take some space apart and then try hanging out as friends at some point and see if that leads anywhere?

I'm not sure, I'm also just kinda guessing here / going with my gut.

I can meet you whenever to get your charger and lunchbox back to you, I'm around through Monday I believe.


I don't know - like leaving it open to meet up at some point, I think it's quite likely I'll just keep him lodged in the back of my head and hope that he'll like me again. I'm not sure how to what am I supposed to do to feel better in that situation? Has anyone actually done this before and functioned, and then also, has it done anything to make the relationship get back together again? Cuz that's ultimately my goal. I'm a pretty miserable wreck right now, and I don't think I would stay this way but...I feel like this is one of those situations where it's like, I want to be in a relationship, relationships take work, I think I'm going to sit around waiting for him to want to be in touch again, I don't think it's good for me or productive.

I think maybe if he feels like things are discouraging and insurmountable, then maybe it's better to just say, ok well let's just move on here. I mean of course I want to meet up again in the future and what I fantasize is that he'll want me again, right. But I can't make that actually happen or count on it. So then I don't know what's going to happen. There are 2 things I can do - I can be in a relationship and work on communication, or I can break up, adjust/put myself back together again. But I don't know what to do with myself in gray area. I've never been happy or emotionally healthy there...It's draining and it makes me feel bad about myself.

I feel like saying I need to move on if you're not into it. I'm so ready to be happy by myself or with someone, but I can't do that if I'm kinda stuck on you but not getting anything from that.

Edit: yeah? Thoughts, anyone? I know Missy approves. Haha - personal experiences to confirm this is a good approach?

06-17-17, 06:15 PM
Why wait to see if he likes you?

Do YOU seriously like HIM? I don't mean is it important to you to be with someone (which OK maybe it is), I mean is it HIM for sure.

I might be wrong, but it sounds like you are looking for a positive judgment - from some random dude. What good is a positive judgment of you, if it's coming from him?

06-17-17, 08:37 PM
I see what you mean DVD, I'm trying to think about this and get my feelings straight. It is important for me to be with someone, but yes I do also like him. He's a lot of fun, he does like to get out and do stuff, or he did at the beginning :eyebrow::scratch: and I'm pretty sure that is part of his personality when he's doing well...oh ugh I was about to keep listing reasons and I can def think of more but it's too painful. Oooow. Yeah I really do like him.

Anyways sent him ultimatum email. I don't really care if I get a negative judgment from him, I mean that hurts of course but oh well, you know, like, then I know, ok that wasn't worth it. I'm just not getting either, and since I like him, if there's a possibility he'll work on things (doubtful) I'm willing to try. ::shrug:: but again I doubt it.

06-17-17, 08:48 PM
My ex-wife loved the guy she hoped I would turn into someday. Someday never comes. She waited 25 years. It hurt both of us very badly.

If you don't love him NOW, the way he normally is, then don't mess up both your lives by trying to fix him.

06-18-17, 05:53 AM
I don't think I know the way he normally is, that's why I was trying to find out. I know I really liked what I saw at first. I mean I'm asking him questions to try to find out if we are honestly compatible, like in my original message, not to force him to change. He seems uncertain of what to do, but he was also so excited at first ::shrug:: I absolutely don't want to put someone through what you went through :( I mean I also kind of know what that's like, my 5 year relationship, I spent a lot of that trying to be something I wasn't as well. And with this guy, I suspect there would be more of that from me as well
- trying to be chill about things I'm not really chill with.

Anyways mostly for my own self I need a concrete answer either way, we're keeping going or we're moving on, not maybe we're definitely moving on after some undefined amount of time in which this guy figures out whether he likes me. I'm just realizing now that I've dealt with quite a few situations where the guy struggled to make up his mind, after I said I had made up mine, and if he tries to complain to me about it (like emails, texting, FB, for example) that affects me too. Does that make sense? For my own self, need either **** yes or it's a no.

On a side note - I'm tired of wondering if there is anything desirable about me at all, or if I'm only capable of being pretty and then making my partner miserable.

06-18-17, 11:37 AM
The way he normally is is just how you've found him to be. If that hasn't been consistent, then "inconsistent" is part of him. You don't get to choose to make one of the inconsistent parts permanent and make the other parts go away; every person is a non-negotiable permanent mess just the way they are. :)

Willow, you try too hard. Stop wondering if you're desirable, because yes you are. Stop trying to give guys personality makeovers, because it never works. Accept that this screwed-up world with its screwed-up people is all we get.

06-18-17, 12:54 PM
Everyone has their list of things that they couldn't live with. I'm happily married now, but I can still tell you a couple of examples from my list: I wouldn't start a relationship with someone who smokes, and if they don't like having lots of music happening around them then it's not going to work either.

I don't say that to explain myself, but to remind you that you have a list too. No one can judge your list; it just is what it is. Knowing your list better, you can use it like a "sorting hat" to keep things a little more manageable. :)

06-18-17, 01:00 PM
Blargh, ok, I'm not trying to change him. (Yeah I work too hard lol that's true.)

Wait, ok wait actually, I hadn't really thought of it this way before but - what I'm trying to do is reach a decision, and allow him input, up to a certain point, because I am genuinely ok with that. I like the last message I sent him - (it was long winded again) but I ultimately said like, no gray area, we can break up, or work on communication, and if you wanna think about These Specific Questions and we talk that's fine. No meeting up "as friends" after unknown length of time and we see where it goes. My summer vacation starts in a week, from now until then I will certainly be absorbed with school end of year shenanigans, but I don't want to be dwelling on this come summer, so I said we could talk in a week.

I guess he Is not much of a planner, so maybe expecting him to be able to make a concrete decision could come across as expecting him to change. I wasn't thinking of it that way. I'm used to guys who don't make up their minds. Not all of them, but I have dealt with this before. I've certainly had times of breaking up and then the guy changes his mind, like my previous relationship, and one in particular from my college days that still stands out as quite painful. J did tell me that his last break up was on again off again. I feel that I'm trying to be very clear so that he knows that I won't be doing that, and if that happens, I can refer back to all of this, know that I did communicate my needs, remind myself that he's being indecisive, not engage in "what ifs", and not entertain the possibility any further.

He can be however he is, whatever. He can pick the option that makes sense for him, but if we're still doing this in a week, I'm out and I don't think I'll be that sad :P

I guess I do see what you're saying, but I feel I'm doing this so I have clarity as well, so I don't think it's so bad I guess. I'm feeling much more calm today :) - er even with the desirable doubts earlier, have been feeling gradually better as day goes on. Not like amazing but certainly better than say the beginning of last week.

06-18-17, 01:23 PM
No one can judge your list; it just is what it is. Knowing your list better, you can use it like a "sorting hat" to keep things a little more manageable. :)

I like this reminder a lot. Thank you DVD. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to everything I'm posting, and I've had a couple of private messages too which have been really useful as well.

Further thought: I am like JUST consciously realizing that gray area doesn't exist if I don't engage in it, like saying nope not good enough. (That feels really freeing!) And maybe it's my own insecurity or indecisiveness coming into play that made me walk through aaalll these steps this time. I think for the moment it will help me not engage in gray area inside, emotionally. And I think it's possible that even if he does want to talk at the end of the week, that I won't want to and that's fine with me.

I notice that I am getting better at not dwelling. I feel I did well processing the last thing and moving on, which is a huge improvement over the first encounter I had with dating after serious break up. God that was awful. In the meantime, I will develop my list and developing my confidence and I'm going to keep going with that.

06-18-17, 04:12 PM
I think what you're calling a gray area might not be one at all. It might be more like you were trying to convince yourself that giving up some of your needs could be worth it for the right guy.

But that's the problem; if giving up some of your needs comes up, then he automatically couldn't be the right guy. Because with the right guy, your needs are always OK with him.

06-19-17, 06:55 AM
But that's the problem; if giving up some of your needs comes up, then he automatically couldn't be the right guy. Because with the right guy, your needs are always OK with him.

I want this to be my standard, but is it normal to think this kind of sounds like a fairytale? I mean it sounds kind of lovely and impossible. I think I'm probably too needy, I know I'm not consistently very confident. I dunno, it's just I was hanging out with my friend yesterday, and she is very calming, and she is having trouble finding someone to date as well- she's just not interested in anyone, they all seem to not be good enough. I was asking her if she ever needs reassurance, and how would she want affection or feel reassured, and she said, I don't feel like needing reassurance has ever been a thing for me... and I was like, huh.

I dunno I guess she is more confident than me, no doubt. I feel like I can be all over the place sometimes, I'm really affectionate, and I have an anxiety disorder for am I too difficult to be with.

Whatever, don't take this too seriously, I'm just thinking about how I've been feeling sometimes since end of long relationship. I feel sad this morning. It'll go away, I'll do fun things this summer, really try to hang out with some friends who make me feel good.

06-19-17, 08:27 AM
I want this to be my standard, but is it normal to think this kind of sounds like a fairytale?

Only if you haven't yet accepted the fact that needs, by definition, are not negotiable.


06-19-17, 12:12 PM
A certain amount of responsibility is placed on you - to know as clearly as you can what your own needs are, so that when you're considering sticking with a person you'll be able to make better decisions.

Your needs come into your consideration in more minor situations too. If you need something that another person can't stand, would you hang out with them for a day? Probably. Would you go camping with them for a week? Hmmmm. I guess. Roommates for a year? That's a very tough one, probably not. Long-term relationship? Forget it.

06-20-17, 08:37 AM
Not to complain or whine, I just want to write things somewhere where they're read, it feels more complete somehow. If I am complaining or being pathetic, better to do it here than places IRL.

(Wish I'd slept more last night, feel like crap right now, bleh! Didn't realize I got to bed so late...)

So J hasn't replied to the last thing I sent him (I know you think I shouldn't be waiting for him, I get it) - wanting like a solid answer either way, not a let's wait and see thing. I was curious so I checked the dating website and he reactivated his profile. Sigh ouch.

But just for myself - I am totally not perfect, but I know I am dedicated and everything and I work hard and I do try to be a good person. I can have someone who is respectful and communicates better. I don't believe that it's a good thing to do, to just not reply to something like that, I mean email really doesn't have to be a big deal, I think going from saying you want someone to move in to letting someone know via email that it's done is like, to me that's definitely not too much to ask. I guess it is for him, he can live that way, I just don't think it's ok personally. I wouldn't do that (Now I kinda want to check with all the people I broke up with and see if they're ok hahaha)

I'm getting better at not taking things personally with my students and getting that they have their problems and their problems aren't mine. I just have to do my job, be myself, love them, and be consistent. If I can help them with their problems, that's great, and if I can't, I know it's not for lack of trying, maybe next time I'll know what to do.

Probably need more of that attitude in my dating life.

Little Missy
06-20-17, 09:29 AM
hey, Oliver is one big HANDSOME boy. I'm a ginger fan.

missy's unsolicited advice for the day: nobody likes a Klingon.

you're great.

06-20-17, 11:34 AM
hey, Oliver is one big HANDSOME boy. I'm a ginger fan.

missy's unsolicited advice for the day: nobody likes a Klingon.

you're great.


Oliver is soooo cuuute it's ridiculous. He is noticeably happier not having guys around.

06-20-17, 12:00 PM

Oliver is soooo cuuute it's ridiculous. He is noticeably happier not having guys around.

That's because he has his favourite human's full attention :) :D

06-20-17, 01:35 PM
missy's unsolicited advice for the day: nobody likes a Klingon.

That just made my day.

06-20-17, 02:26 PM
That just made my day.
Mine too, after the two minutes it took me to get the joke. :o

06-20-17, 03:10 PM
Oliver is a klingon :P :D ;)

(but I still like him)

06-20-17, 03:14 PM
Cat hair in general is a pretty serious Klingon as well. :)

Little Missy
06-20-17, 04:22 PM
Oliver is a klingon :P :D ;)

(but I still like him)

no, No, NO, Oliver is most definitely not a Klingon! He's special.

this site automatically capitalizes Klingon!

06-20-17, 05:18 PM

No it doesn't

Little Missy
06-20-17, 05:28 PM

No it doesn't

Klingon it does for me!

Little Missy
06-20-17, 05:28 PM

did it again!

06-20-17, 05:29 PM
It's your machine, not the site.

Little Missy
06-20-17, 06:55 PM
It's your machine, not the site.

well, i'll be

06-20-17, 08:24 PM
BAAhahahahaaa you guys are wonderfuuuuuul



06-20-17, 10:20 PM
Some consider me less of a wonder and more like just a fuuuuuuul

06-20-17, 11:03 PM
I nono how to do a video in my post, but I practiced guitar today! I've got quite a collection of break up songs now ;)

I'm just proud of myself because like...I'm not a very good guitar player and it's not something I was ever that interested in picking up and at first I just really could not wrap my mind around it, but since I started working at this school I have gotten WAAAY better, and now I'm like, comfortable picking some song I hear and kinda like and I can figure it out, with help of the internet, and play it for myself if I want!! :D :D :cool: That's so much better than I used to be, and I'm getting better at remembering chords and lyrics and stuff. I'm trying some fancier chords and finger picking stuff :D.

I do the most guitar playing when frustrated with dating hahaha.
Anyways but it is exciting that I'm getting better because it's a really satisfying way to vent frustration.

06-20-17, 11:41 PM
Cathartic break-up song - not necessarily to play guitar with but to hear: "Goodbye" by Jane Siberry.

Also "The Walking (and constantly)", or essentially anything from her "The Walking" album.

06-21-17, 09:08 AM
The beginning of that, where it's like, the instrument thing is in like a different key than the singing, I feel like it could be a good musical representation of when the boyfriend of 5 years was packing up and moving out. Disorienting and kind of scary haha

Stupid facebook, It's the morning and I'm a true grump in the morning: I posted some silly jokey status about the end of the year and J "liked" it which is so ironic to me because I poured my heart and soul out into this email/letter which did not get any kind of a response but some stupid facebook status is worthy of acknowledgement. Lol I mean, it's a weird ... facebook is weird. You're my "friend". It's just weird. I know it doesn't really matter but I don't sit around making myself known, "liking" the things on your profile when I end a relationship. Last guy did that too, like broke up with me and then facebooked me about my grandpa's funeral (grandpa passed while we were dating) and liked all the pictures of my family. Hello?! we're not friends?! I want space, I said that to you, leave me alone, I need to NOT be reminded of your existence right now. Now I have to put energy into making sure you can't see what I'm posting argh >.< Anyways, as far as pouring out my heart and soul, I know that's not playing hard to get but we were actually dating and it's who I am, and I did agree with myself that if I needed or wanted to communicate with a guy I was gonna just do it for pete's sake and not sit around hoping they would notice, and if it's unwelcome they can clearly say so.

Anyways, ok /endrant

Johnny Slick
06-21-17, 09:29 AM
I nono how to do a video in my post, but I practiced guitar today! I've got quite a collection of break up songs now ;)

I'm just proud of myself because like...I'm not a very good guitar player and it's not something I was ever that interested in picking up and at first I just really could not wrap my mind around it, but since I started working at this school I have gotten WAAAY better, and now I'm like, comfortable picking some song I hear and kinda like and I can figure it out, with help of the internet, and play it for myself if I want!! :D :D :cool: That's so much better than I used to be, and I'm getting better at remembering chords and lyrics and stuff. I'm trying some fancier chords and finger picking stuff :D.

I do the most guitar playing when frustrated with dating hahaha.
Anyways but it is exciting that I'm getting better because it's a really satisfying way to vent frustration....and now I've found another band that sounds like the music in my head. God dammit, Canada, why do you have to do this to me!? :mad:

06-22-17, 10:15 PM
I hate this. Why is it so hard to not be hurt? It's so hard to not think badly of myself, like, just in general to not think there's something wrong with me and I just haven't figured out what it is. I look around at my colleagues, mostly women you know? and I feel like, there's no way they think these things. They are normal well-adjusted people. Which is why they also have friends and family and can interact with people without being awkward and they can talk about normal things. I just don't think they're sitting there beating themselves up and hating themselves. Why would I do that? What's wrong with me? Why don't I know how to feel ok with myself? Aaaargh.

I feel terrible. I don't know what to do. I still have a bunch of his things, and he has a bunch of my things. He still is active on the dating thing so I mean...**Shrug** Being soo excited about the whole thing, and then a couple days, you don't even tell the girl the relationship is done and you're in the market for someone else, I guess? I mean geezus. I do feel like trash.

Help, I really don't even know how to write an email to get my things back. I know it seems so pathetic but I just have too many different feelings to know what to do and I'm all twisted up with anxiety about not being too lame. I'm gone this weekend and he could leave my things in the garage for me and I could leave his stuff there to pick up, so we wouldn't have to see each other.

I guess it depends on what would help me move on in the long run, right? stating ok this is done, please leave my things in the garage, or not even referencing that at all because it seems sort of obvious anyways and I feel like a doofus, just, leave my things in the garage, and I'll put your things there before I go. I don't know...

Should I say hey that's kind of embarrassing, to have to find out one's relationship status for sure via your online dating account, maybe consider not doing that in the future.

I'm drained. This week has been so long. The kids were so sweet but like, scheduling with my principal, everyone's aggravated and like even genuinely ****** off about it, I haven't even finished my evaluation stuff, I have a gig tomorrow and I haven't played my clarinet in ages, I'm tired, and then this I just don't even know what one does in this situation but I must be doing something really stupid to have ended up in it in the first place.

I want to not be stupid, I'm determined not to sulk or pout, I want to be positive and make better decisions, but where do I even start.

06-26-17, 04:55 PM

I just got back from J's and we talked for a while.

When I went in he gave me a hug and I immediately started crying. He made me a drink and offered food and chitchatted about what he was doing and things he was working on. I was crying on and off, this is just like with previous ex. I know what it's like when someone's trying to let me down gently, right. I've been there.

I said well, maybe we should talk....

He said he wasn't sure if he wanted to date, he said that earlier he felt like it was a bad sign if we were already taking a break. He said that he felt that if I was that frustrated with him already and it had only been 2 months, that it felt like, well that's that then. I explained that I was stressed and insecure and I felt like everything I was doing was making things worse. I think he feels like he's been burned in the past, so I think he was hurt by me potentially feeling fed up with him and just didn't want to deal with it. I said that I felt that I needed emotionally to get my feet back under me and get perspective and then find out what we both were really looking for.

I said maybe it would be helpful to talk about what we wanted, to decide what we should do. So we went over what was going on, he said when he felt that I had a problem with his gaming he would feel bad and then have this "eff it" reaction, like this is what I want to do so I'm going to do it. Obviously I don't handle that well I said. He said that he checked and he saw that he had started gaming a lot, he said it was like 20 hours a week. So he realized and admitted that what he was saying to me and what was actually happening were 2 different things. (I almost brought up therapist's comment about video game addiction but I didn't.)

I told him that when he said that gaming is something he likes to do for an hour with his friends every day, I felt that that wasn't unreasonable, my ex used to exercise for an hour every day and that was not an issue at all. He understood that...

He said that he felt that the increase in gaming was because he was doing a lot of climbing before, with this girl he was seeing, but she was kind of stringing him along, it was strange, and he stopped seeing her, and so he was home more, and then he started seeing me.

(I didn't realize that I was so much on the tail end of his thing with her until a couple weeks in, like he called her and said that he was seeing someone else now and she was very upset with him. They were through romantically, he had already established that, but she was going to come visit him at his place anyways apparently, but he didn't feel comfortable with that where I was then in the picture.

I'm realizing now that...he said he wanted a longterm relationship doesn't seem like he was entering his thing with me from the most healthy perspective. He had said previously that when he messaged me on okcupid he was kinda not that wild about the idea of dating really, which is maybe partly why it took us so long to meet up. But then we met and he liked me and he changed his mind. He told his friends how I was "normal" and how great that was. I remember wondering what he meant by that, but he was referring to this previous girl, like that wasn't "normal".)

He said that he liked that we could hang out and work near each other and co-exist doing different things and it wasn't a problem. I said I liked that too because I do have a lot of work to do. He said he would have cycles of needing more or less downtime.

He said he felt frustrated that if I was working for a couple hours in the afternoon, that it would be not ok for him to go do his thing for a couple hours in the evening. I said that partly I was trying to get my work done so that I could spend time with him without worrying about it, and I wouldn't be thinking about this or that thing I needed to do or whether or not I would have enough time to deal with everything if I put it all off until after dinner. He seemed to understand that too.

I said that I am trying to work on my job and making the work reasonable [I just talked to my principal about getting an aid/paraprofessional who would be someone that would help the art/music/pe teachers with their classes and prep and my principal thought that that was a great idea.] Work will always be a thing, but I do try to accommodate my partner's needs. I said that when I was dating Cedar, I would focus on getting my work done on the weekends because that's when he was gigging and then during the weeks we could hang out. So I could try to have evenings be work time for me if he's going to be playing games. I said that Cedar and I used to have to negotiate time together a bit and we started talking about having date nights specifically just to spend time together. I said some people maybe wouldn't want to deal with scheduling like that, so it might not be interesting to you - and he said no actually I think that would be easier, like if I knew it was Thursdays or whatever.

Then I dunno, there were other things...the dog was being cute and we were laughing at him for a bit...

We went outside with the dog and I was like now? And he said that he still didn't really know if he wanted to get back into this again, but it was nice to see me and talk. He said maybe we could take some time apart and then go to lunch. I immediately felt exhausted by that, like this week has been so slow and long and difficult. I told him and that I didn't know what to do with myself. He said he didn't want to string me along. He asked what I'm doing next weekend. I said I was around, he said maybe we could get lunch.

I had to think about that. Could I do another week? I said you're not really going to know if you want to date me if we don't spend some time together... like ... what is it that you're going to get from this?

He said he just didn't know if he wanted to date, but then he said he was leaning towards not really. And I said...ok...well, it doesn't seem worth it then.

We went inside. I said again, this was all very slow, lots of pausing and thinking and considering and trying to get myself to say clear/concrete things. I said again if you're feeling like "not really" then I'm going to consider this done. I was really sad. He said ok. He was not thrilled but it was more like sad sympathy than anything else. There was no fight to keep going or anything, just, it's nice to see you and talk.

You know, he seemed to like me sooo much, that's why this is so hard. But maybe he was also looking for some company right? Like he kinda had this weird thing with this girl, then not spending as much time with her, doesn't want to be totally alone in the new house he moved into. I guess I can see now if we had been slower to get started, maybe some of these things would have been clearer to me. Like we talked about ways that things could go differently in the future. If he actually liked me, it seems like he would have some sense of relief, like cool, we can try this again and we have a better place to start from maybe. But, yeah, that wasn't the case obviously...

He offered to help me put the air conditioner back in tonight (he had given me an old air conditioner from the house and I asked him if he wanted it back. He never responded to that though so I lugged it out of my apartment, thing is really freaking heavy to carry by myself, then he told me that I could keep it >.<) I said no we shouldn't hang out, I can ask my neighbor for help. He said he wouldn't contact me but I could feel free to reach out to him. I said'll need space.

I just need reassurance. I did the right thing right. I'm so sad that this all ended. I felt so hopeful about it because he was so nice at first. It felt so nice to be liked and wanted and approved of. I need reassurance that there really wasn't/isn't anything more I can do. What if I had done or said something differently? Just tell me it would have been the same result please.

I started last summer with a very broken heart as well. It was different because everything was so new and I hadn't ever lived by myself over a summer before, I have lots of things I can and need to focus on, but I know it is really hard for me when I'm feeling lonely and hurt. I know a tiny bit more now, or, at least, I don't know what the answers are, but I know all the things I tried last time that didn't work.

06-26-17, 05:18 PM
Willow I've only read your first and last post in this thread bit based on thst and more than anything based on 'not really' I might not be worth putting a lot more effort into keeping this going.

He sounds a bit lukewarm and you shouldn't have to be I'm a relationship.where you keep wondering if the other person is as committed as you are.

I think gaming is also setting pretty tough to scale back on because it's so easy to get hooked so I think you might always clash on that issue. It sounds like his current level.of gaming is too much for you but you wouldn't want him to scale back just so you are not upset isn't it?

I don't know. I haven't dated in more than a decade so I could be totally wrong but I think you deserve better. He sounds like a nice guy but maybe you just aren't in the same place. There's no need for you to settle for something that isn't all that great.


Also reading your tdlr again I don't think.aj6 of this actually has anything to do with what you said or did but maybe more with how both of you feel. So yeah I do think you deefinitely did the right thing. Also, no contact I think always makes things easier. You can't get closure ajd move on if you are still friends.

Little Missy
06-26-17, 06:54 PM
coming from the lady who once threw a marinated whole tenderloin at the wall -which I would never dream of doing now- I believe maybe you just want more than he wants to give right now.

he sounds awfully nice. damn, he harboured you and oliver through scabies. he just wants to play video games, not get drunk and beat you up.

if I was in the tenderloin situation now, i'd cover it in some aluminum foil and wait.

if I was in your situation now, i'd keep him on the back burner and get together when you can, or when he calls you. nobody likes a Klingon.

neediness I can relate to. then, but not now. I learned how to be alone with myself and within myself. I know you can too.

letting your partner have their own time without constraints is a good thing. unless there is more to it than video games.

06-26-17, 07:32 PM
coming from the lady who once threw a marinated whole tenderloin at the wall -which I would never dream of doing now- I believe maybe you just want more than he wants to give right now.

he sounds awfully nice. damn, he harboured you and oliver through scabies. he just wants to play video games, not get drunk and beat you up.

if I was in the tenderloin situation now, i'd cover it in some aluminum foil and wait.

if I was in your situation now, i'd keep him on the back burner and get together when you can, or when he calls you. nobody likes a Klingon.

neediness I can relate to. then, but not now. I learned how to be alone with myself and within myself. I know you can too.

letting your partner have their own time without constraints is a good thing. unless there is more to it than video games.

Hahaha that tenderloin story does crack me up though Missy.

I want more than he can give - exactly, I can't change him.

I know I would have been flexible for him, as flexible as I possibly can be. I talked to him about that. He was not interested.

I'm a nice person Missy and I do appreciate that people need space. I think I was good about the coexisting thing, I need that too because I work a lot. But 20 hours a week of video gaming. HE told ME that that was a lot. He told me he was gaming a lot before he said the number of hours. I don't think he knows how he feels about seeing that number. Space: He would have gotten that from me, I'm VERY busy, trust me. But I'm not in a relationship so I can sit around by myself either.

I am not going to criticize myself and agree that I am clingy. I have good emotional reasons for needing the things that I need and I can articulate my reasoning. I am more emotional and needy when I feel bad about myself, so calling myself clingy is counter productive anyways. I have to believe that someone will want my "neediness" and anyways I'm not perfect but I have other nice qualities. Hey! I'm great with kids! I work really hard and I take being someone's partner seriously. The reason I took space away from him (/I/ said I needed space originally, not him) is because I was recognizing...ok, like, I'm a certain amount of ok when single. I'm not like WHOO YEAH SINGLE, but I'm ok. If a relationship brings me lower than that, there's a problem, either it needs fixing, or I need to leave the relationship. That's where all of this was bringing me. So, someone will want my "neediness", or I'll be better off single.

He is awfully nice, he is a good person. "not get drunk and beat me up" - I don't think I need to compare him to the worst ;) I don't want to think about him being nice. It really effing hurts. He's not interested and I need to feel better again and that's what I need to think about.

He's not going to call me, he said that.

I haven't learned to be alone - you hit the nail on the head. That's my struggle I think. Thank you for saying you know I can learn how, that's so nice, it makes me feel hopeful, I really appreciate that.

Little Missy
06-26-17, 07:43 PM
thank you. that made me smile wistfully. and cry sweet tears for young love.

06-27-17, 02:42 AM
Willow- I am just catching up because I was busy but wow. You have one reason to try it with him under perfection conditions;(that means he changes into what you want and it goes smashingly), and 1000 reasons to let it go. IMO delete him off of facebook. No need to have the "lets stay friends" thing going at this point. You dont need to wonder what he means when he likes a post. People that have their ex'es on facebook usually do so because they want to know what they are up to and want to make sure the ex sees what they are up to. Very rarely is it because the friendship is so wonderful.
Personally, I think you are way too cool of a chick to be letting this occupy space in your head.

06-27-17, 08:38 PM
Thank you Sarah :D
I was hesitating about deleting him off Facebook (it's blocked right now anyways) but yeah you are totally right. Yeah. Hahaha I would be like secretly hoping he would see how cool I am and regret the "not really". You are sooso right.

Oh my god, that has run through the back of my head many times today - "not really"?! Uuuuuugh! Bleeeeeh I need to forget that as soon as possible. Right now I'm trying to remind myself the good things I do and enjoy, like my work teaching and that I have really good rapport with the kids and I play music and support my community and stuff.

I deleted all his texts and contact info from my phone yesterday, deleted messages on dating site and blocked him on there too. I run into his pictures on my phone and stuff and that is kind of brutal ha. Oh man, I'm starting to know all the steps for a break Up...

And, I made myself go to my neighbor's jam yesterday and that cleared my head really well. I'm gonna go to a dance tomorrow and I'm very pleased with myself cuz I bought myself tickets to see one of my favorite musicians on Thursday!! hooray hooray hooraaaaay :D I haven't been to a show in foreeeever :D + hopefully Thursday lunch with lady friend ... trying not to get into the lonely thing again this summer.... I know about some more stuff that I can do now so that's helpful...

07-13-17, 10:41 AM
Kinda Wild weekend. Had a gig in the south, the morning I was going to leave I got another text from the guy who broke up with me in February. (He shall go by S) He has not stopped texting/emailing/messaging/looking at my dating profile since's RIDICULOUS. I set up an auto reply on my email, just to him, for the next time he emails me:

This is an auto reply. I have set up my email so that if you send me a message, you will receive this response and your email will be automatically sent to the trash. I have not seen what you’ve written.

I blocked your messages on okcupid and Facebook, and I just got a text from you. I have blocked your phone number. We are 4 months out of a 4 month relationship. I told you when we broke up that I did not want to be in touch. I then further clarified in an email that I am not interested in getting back together, and I am uncomfortable being in touch with you. You have not respected either of those statements.

For the third time: ANY form of contact from you is unwelcome - be it in person, text, online message, ANYTHING. It does not matter what is contained in the message, or what you say to me, it is ALL unwelcome.

If I find that you are continuing to try to contact me in any way, I will consider it harassment.

Here is some information on harassment in the state of ---- (and a link)

Do not contact me again."

I dunno what I would do from here, but I am sick of finding his stupid little messages, and it makes me feel so yucky.

I roadtripped myself down to gig. Got there at like 2 AM, set up my tent, didn't sleep very much that night.

Next day when everyone got there, before the sound check Mr. Saxophone told me that B was coming to the weekend.

B was the first person I kinda dated after Cedar and I broke up. I was crazy about him. He is from the south so he lives near where the gig was. he is extremely charming and handsome. He used to say all these things to me, I can't even hardly get myself to type them, it is so unbelievable to hear that from anybody, especially someone who wasn't ever your boyfriend, like that he thought I was so beautiful and mysterious and oh my god just all this stuff, I don't even know. Everything that can pull a stupid heartbroken girl in. I can't even tell you, everything except "I'm madly in love with you, you are The One" ::sigh:: ::eyeroll:: but, we have lots of friends in common, and I hear if you are just his friend, he is the greatest. He is popular, fun, energetic, outdoorsy, music lover, we had lots of chemistry, like more than anyone everever (or, there was lots on my side, and he said there was on his too)...J reminded me of him a bit, kind of like, a northern video gamer version of B. We live on opposite sides of the country though and that in and of itself is crazy, and add in that he is over optimistic, kind of impulsive and unorganized and so am I, and he's not a great communicator, and I put myself majorly through the wringer.

I told him last year at this very same festival that he couldn't talk to me anymore, had had my heart broken quite enough for the like 5 months we were in touch. we could not be friends, I didn't want to hear from him again or see him. He told me he understood and that he only wanted the best for me, and I haven't seen or heard from him since. I was kind of secretly a mess about it until November. But like, my close friends knew about it. They tried to warn me but...

So, Mr. Sax tells me he is going to be there and my stomach absolutely did the squishiest most floppy anxiety somersault. Mr. Sax said he tried to sort of convince him not to, like oh it'll probably not be much fun, but B is best friends with the fiddler in my band, and we're all friends with the other band, and everyone had been hanging out with B for the previous week and they all wanted to keep the party going. I guess B sort of flipped back and forth on whether he was going, and then decided he would. He knew I was going to be there, while we were sound checking I got a call from him and 5 seconds of silent voicemail lol.

Then my gal friend ABea also told me, "B's going to be here." I was like "I'm fine, it's fine, I'm gonna be fine. All good." She was like "uhuuh". I told them B called me and they were like don't call him back, do not give him the time of day, you do not owe him anything. He's going to be all friendly and charming to you, he will want to be friends again, ignore him.

I should hit the road I guess, maybe more later.

Little Missy
07-13-17, 01:05 PM
wow! sax-man returneth!!!:D

07-14-17, 04:35 PM
Hahaha Silly Missy.

I'm gonna switch to the blog for the rest of this, if anyone, er, feels like reading about this?! <.< >.> ^.^
Feels a little weird to go on and on on the message board as it's not totally ADHD related but I want to write about it I guess.

07-15-17, 07:35 AM
Screw the "rules". You are posting in the right section and will probably get more replies here than in your blog but its up to you. If he comes can you avoid him or will you have to deal with him?