View Full Version : About time that SCT get pinned to the top of the board?


scuro
07-02-17, 01:05 AM
It's been a while...but there is new information on this disorder

-It will not be a new disorder in the DSM5 mainly because of a backlash to too many new disorders having been created and a hesitancy to "create" new ones
-It is very distinct from ADHD, they share very few traits in common
-30-50% of all ADHD is SCT, so ADHD which was thought to be 7-8 percent of the population, is really 4% of both ADHD and SCT
-It's more impairing than ADHD at work and just as impairing at school

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKavCm3qHBE

sarahsweets
07-02-17, 03:13 PM
Is this new research? I thought the dsm was already out?

Batman55
08-04-17, 12:13 AM
Any research on the overlap and/or similarity between SCT and autistic spectrum disorder?

Anything to suggest a language processing issue with SCT (affecting either auditory learning, or comprehension itself)?

Proneness to frequent, simple errors is allegedly not a hallmark of ADHD itself; however as I understand SCT, it is one of the most distinctive symptoms, one of the ways to differentiate SCT from ADHD.

But it also looks to me, there is a very similar thing going on with autistic spectrum disorders. Your stereotypical autistic person literally *cannot* be distracted. There is basically *one* tunnel of attention possessed by your generalized autistic person; any kind of distraction (including background noise, someone talking to them, etc.) could cause them to stop and need to re-start again, in order to avoid catastrophic simple error. They can only do one thing at a time, if that; in order to maintain this "one thing at a time", they cannot tolerate even the simplest distraction.

It looks a lot like SCT seems to look, and vice-versa.

This is leading up to my ultimate question. Could SCT actually be a kind of autistic spectrum disorder?

sarahsweets
08-04-17, 06:22 AM
I dont know if its fair to say that SCT is more impairing than adhd.

daveddd
08-04-17, 07:02 AM
While I'm sure there have been or is disorders that encompass sct. They mine as well

Will giving it its own name help in treatment?

I personally don't buy in to the massive amount of supposedly separate and distinct disorders if they think it will help treatments do it. Just keep it mind it hasn't really helped in other areas of mental illness. Or if people need it for validation purposes I guess that's fine too

Barkley hasn't done any meaningful research on ADHD in about 5 years cause of sct so he's the guy to go to I'd say

daveddd
08-04-17, 07:07 AM
I dont know if its fair to say that SCT is more impairing than adhd.

Well he just said at work. Which who knows. All the best workers I know have hyperactive ADHD

But I think we get them in all other areas. Police. Drugs. Emotions.

mildadhd
08-04-17, 02:06 PM
Questions

Is Dr.Barkley saying..

..ADD is SCT?

..ADHD is a separate condition?

..7% of the population has ADD (SCT)?

..7% of the population has ADHD?


What about the % of combined AD(H)D population?




M

Lunacie
08-04-17, 02:14 PM
Questions

Is Dr.Barkley saying..

..ADD is SCT?

..ADHD is a separate condition?

..7% of the population has ADD (SCT)?

..7% of the population has ADHD?


What about the % of combined AD(H)D population?




M

In the video (which I'm about halfway through) Dr. Barkley says that SCT is
quite separate and different from ADHD.

If he discusses percentages of population, I haven't gotten to that part yet.

mildadhd
08-04-17, 02:29 PM
At about 0:10 seconds into the video, the title is..


Russell Barkley
The second Attention Disorder: Slugish Cognitive Tempo (or ADD) vs. ADHD






M

Lunacie
08-04-17, 02:37 PM
At about 0:10 seconds into the video, the title is..



M

I am hoping that he will explain all six of those different kinds of attention, not
just the one that signals adhd and the one that signals SCT.

SashaBV
11-11-17, 05:28 PM
I'd never heard or SCT, but it sounds pretty much more impairing. Hmm. My ADD brain is tired today and can't function. Excessive daydreaminess? Wish there was a job like that for me.

allesandro1
11-20-17, 07:15 PM
I can identify with every one of the symptoms that Barkley describes much more precisely than with all of the symptoms of ADD. It's like someone took out and deleted all of the symptoms that don't apply to me and honed in exactly on what is applicable. I wonder if anyone else can identify so markedly with all of these symptoms?

OyVeyKitty
11-21-17, 11:00 AM
That was an interesting video, thank you for sharing! I have heard lots of praise of Dr. Russell Barkley's work by other people who suffer from ADHD but haven't gotten around to checking out any of it until now. I'm glad I did and somehow I even managed to sit through the whole hour and a half, which is a rare thing for me. :lol:

For the people wondering about whether he is conflating ADD with SCT (or CDD as he prefers to call it,) I don't think that's the case. The text in the introduction seems a bit misleading. What I gathered from the video is that he is saying is that ADD is synonymous with ADHD, just an older term for it, which is technically correct. He merely seems to suggest that many (but not necessarily all) people diagnosed with primarily inattentive traits of ADHD would better fit the diagnosis for SCT instead of ADHD.

Here's my CliffsNotes version of the video:

Studies seem very promising but are still in early stages.


ADHD and SCT are two quite distinct conditions.


ADHD is primarily a problem with productivity while SCT is primarily a problem with accuracy. People with ADHD scored slightly, but not too markedly, below average in math tests. People who suffer from SCT scored well below both. SCT may cause people to interpret the problem incorrectly (for example missing that a division sign is not a minus sign,) sometimes leading to significant impairment.


SCT does not lead to problems with inhibition. People who suffer from SCT may in fact be less impulsive than the average person.


ADHD does not impair the quality of a person's work, if you can somehow get them to start a task and keep to it. That's where the problem lies with ADHD. SCT on the other hand, due to accuracy impairment, does cause a decline in work quality.


SCT does not cause cognitive impairment, ADHD does. People with ADHD scored, on average, 7 to 10 points below average on IQ tests. Dr. Barkley points out that this is likely because IQ tests rely on working memory, which is significantly impaired with ADHD. Addendum: a study by Zhang et al. (2011) showed that IQ scores of ADHD children increased when administered methylphenidate, not due to an increase in intelligence but likely due to lessening of impairment.


SCT children tend to be withdrawn and socially shy, though they are less socially impaired than children suffering from ADHD.


SCT can be co-morbid with ADHD, the other way around is less common, but naturally does occur as well. Co-morbid cases are severely impaired.


Stimulants do not appear to be effective in treating SCT, potentially better options are suggested but actual studies have yet to be conducted.


In the end ADHD is a more impairing disorder than SCT, but SCT does impair some areas of life (e.g. school, work) more than ADHD does.


Super short version:

SCT causes daydreaming, brain fog, trouble with alertness, increased confusion, lethargy and apathy.


ADHD causes impulsiveness, distractibility, no trouble with alertness (but with attention instead), no increase in confusion, perseveration ("hyperfocusing").


Co-morbidity between the two exists. It's bad.


Summary:

So the most obvious differences seem to be in alertness, impulsiveness, energy levels and working memory. For example even ADHD adults who no longer show outwardly hyperactive behavior report feeling internally restless, while people who suffer from SCT do not experience this. People suffering from ADHD want things and they want them right now, while people suffering from SCT do not show this trait.

Reference:
Zhang, Lishan & Jin, Xingming & Zhang, Yiwen. (2011). Effect of Methylphenidate on Intelligence Quotient Scores in Chinese Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder. Journal of clinical psychopharmacology. 31. 51-5. 10.1097/JCP.0b013e3182060f3f.

Batman55
11-22-17, 01:02 AM
I have the impulsivity problem, the poor working memory... in addition to chronic daydreaming and significant problems with accuracy and following directions properly.

Maybe that's why I'm such a worthless creature, unable to do anything right or complete anything. :D

Comorbidity of ADD and SCT seems to explain my condition well, UNLESS it is better explained by autistic disorder, which could still be the case.

IMHO there is too much overlap between inattentive ADD (presuming serious social problems are present) and HFA to draw a meaningful line between them, any more. Somehow this needs to be cleared up.

OyVeyKitty
11-22-17, 09:11 AM
I have the impulsivity problem, the poor working memory... in addition to chronic daydreaming and significant problems with accuracy and following directions properly.

Maybe that's why I'm such a worthless creature, unable to do anything right or complete anything. :D

Comorbidity of ADD and SCT seems to explain my condition well, UNLESS it is better explained by autistic disorder, which could still be the case.

IMHO there is too much overlap between inattentive ADD (presuming serious social problems are present) and HFA to draw a meaningful line between them, any more. Somehow this needs to be cleared up.

HFA and SCT

He did specifically bring up HFA. He said the symptoms are not the same, saying that people on the spectrum are aloof, while people with SCT are merely shy. It was around 31:00.

Directions

What specifically is the problem you have with following directions? Both ADHD and SCT can cause that. In my non-expert, one-SCT-video-educated understanding, someone with ADHD would fail because they forget the instructions while they are being conveyed. This is what happens to me. For someone with SCT, that would be because they are off in their own world and not listening.

The latter can sort of happen with ADHD where you freak out about having to remember all the directions you are given. First you try to focus on the first instruction and then miss the others because you're focusing on remembering instead of paying attention, try to correct that by listening again and then you realize you missed some instructions already. You try to remember them and thus lose focus again and in the end your brain just goes haywire with this. You end up catching bits and pieces that amount to nothing at all. :doh:

With SCT however, you might miss stuff because you started thinking about something else completely, like feeding your cat or that you need to wash your car. So there's a complete loss of focus and slipping into daydreaming whereas with ADHD you just mess up because your working memory isn't long enough to retain all the instructions. Learned behavior trying to correct the ADHD problem makes it even worse. With SCT you might register the given information poorly due to brain fog blurring it up, while people with ADHD do seem to more or less correctly register the bits and pieces they manage to actually hear.

If you were to read the instructions and put them into your long term memory instead of working memory, how would you fare? Someone with ADHD will do more or less fine with that, as long as they actually manage to get started on each step and don't run off to do something else in the midst of it. They could recount the steps with reasonable accuracy when asked. Someone with SCT might have read the instructions improperly in the first place and so following them they end up with the wrong result.

Co-morbidity would presumably show up with both symptoms. From the way you described it, it could very well be that you have both. If you not only have trouble sticking with the instructions in the first place, but when you manage to not be distracted long enough to do it, you get them wrong on top of that. Needless to say, that's going to make life real difficult! :(

Daydreaming

As for the daydreaming, I do think people with ADHD do it as well, just differently. Note that this is totally me throwing out a wild hypothesis here, because I don't think Dr. Barkley talked about it. However, when I tend to miss something because I'm in my head, it's because what's going on in the outside world is not stimulating enough and I have no way of getting physical stimuli by moving or talking to people (e.g. in a classroom or a meeting). In these scenarios exciting ideas about what to do after the event might pop into my head instead and my mind tends to want to focus on these exciting things instead of what I'm supposed to pay attention to.

There is a part about this where Dr. Barkley did briefly touch upon it, and that is that people with SCT are more prone to depression because their thoughts presumably drift towards the negative as they daydream. He said it is common for everyone (NT or not) to think about their problems while driving, and that SCT daydreaming is similar to that. This does not happen with me while doing my bored "daydreaming" while it indeed does when I'm driving, when I go into my head when I'm supposed to pay attention it tends to be to seek internal stimuli when I can't get it externally. Current problems are very boring compared to exciting novel ideas.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just excited about this topic. :o

ginniebean
11-22-17, 01:34 PM
As far as I'm aware there is no treatment for SCT. I also think there are overlooked overlaps with people diagnosed with ADHD and autism. I have many autistic features but I can't see any point to getting it diagnosed as there is nothing to do for it. I just take myself as a quasi unique whole and work on my quasi unique problems as best I can. One lifetime is not sufficient. Lol

peripatetic
11-22-17, 01:48 PM
moderator note

a new sticky has been made in this section with the thread start and two purely informational/synopsis posts. you can find it here: http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1974858#post1974858

feel free to continue to use this thread to discuss your personal experiences with SCT and/or its relationship to ADHD or HFA.

carry on,
-peri

WhiteOwl
11-22-17, 09:24 PM
What specifically is the problem you have with following directions? Both ADHD and SCT can cause that. In my non-expert, one-SCT-video-educated understanding, someone with ADHD would fail because they forget the instructions while they are being conveyed. This is what happens to me. For someone with SCT, that would be because they are off in their own world and not listening.

The latter can sort of happen with ADHD where you freak out about having to remember all the directions you are given. First you try to focus on the first instruction and then miss the others because you're focusing on remembering instead of paying attention, try to correct that by listening again and then you realize you missed some instructions already. You try to remember them and thus lose focus again and in the end your brain just goes haywire with this. You end up catching bits and pieces that amount to nothing at all. :doh:

With SCT however, you might miss stuff because you started thinking about something else completely, like feeding your cat or that you need to wash your car. So there's a complete loss of focus and slipping into daydreaming whereas with ADHD you just mess up because your working memory isn't long enough to retain all the instructions. Learned behavior trying to correct the ADHD problem makes it even worse. With SCT you might register the given information poorly due to brain fog blurring it up, while people with ADHD do seem to more or less correctly register the bits and pieces they manage to actually hear.

I am obviously not Batman and can only speak for myself, but I have the same problems he mentioned in his post, so I wanted to weigh in. I often feel like I have something in addition to ADD, something I can't pinpoint. I've also wondered if I have mild Autism. I haven't watched the video yet, but read your cliff notes and it's still kind of confusing to me.

I not only forget the directions while they're being conveyed, but there are also times when I daydream and start thinking about something else completely. This happens to me very often. People will be talking to me and I don't even hear them, I'm completely in my own world. I don't even realize it starting to happen, I just finally "come to" and snap out of it. I though this was pretty common with ADD, though, so now I'm confused.

I also have the problem with only being able to do one thing at a time and completely lose focus if I'm distracted.


If you were to read the instructions and put them into your long term memory instead of working memory, how would you fare? Someone with ADHD will do more or less fine with that, as long as they actually manage to get started on each step and don't run off to do something else in the midst of it. They could recount the steps with reasonable accuracy when asked. Someone with SCT might have read the instructions improperly in the first place and so following them they end up with the wrong result.

It worries me a little that I feel like I could accurately say I would have trouble taking instructions, placing them in my long-term memory and recalling them accurately. I make a lot of little mistakes. I'm not sure if this is a good example, but nearly every time I put something together, no matter how carefully I read the instructions, I always read something wrong and have to go back and re-do things. Is that an example that sounds indicative of SCT? Or if someone is giving me directions, I have trouble even interpreting the first step of the instructions. It's not just that I'm trying to remember it, I might not even understand what they mean! It's entirely possible I'm just stupid.


As for the daydreaming, I do think people with ADHD do it as well, just differently. Note that this is totally me throwing out a wild hypothesis here, because I don't think Dr. Barkley talked about it. However, when I tend to miss something because I'm in my head, it's because what's going on in the outside world is not stimulating enough and I have no way of getting physical stimuli by moving or talking to people (e.g. in a classroom or a meeting). In these scenarios exciting ideas about what to do after the event might pop into my head instead and my mind tends to want to focus on these exciting things instead of what I'm supposed to pay attention to.

There is a part about this where Dr. Barkley did briefly touch upon it, and that is that people with SCT are more prone to depression because their thoughts presumably drift towards the negative as they daydream. He said it is common for everyone (NT or not) to think about their problems while driving, and that SCT daydreaming is similar to that. This does not happen with me while doing my bored "daydreaming" while it indeed does when I'm driving, when I go into my head when I'm supposed to pay attention it tends to be to seek internal stimuli when I can't get it externally. Current problems are very boring compared to exciting novel ideas.


I'm a little confused about what you mean by saying your "bored" daydreaming is different than the daydreaming when you drive. I understand your "bored" daydreaming being caused by lack of external stimuli. I have that problem, too. But what is the cause of "driving" daydreaming? It kind of all seems the same, to me. I don't have depression and I don't just daydream about problems, but it can be any random thing, including happy or neutral things. It seems like when I space out while there is a lot of action and noise going on around me, it can't be due to boredom and seeking internal stimuli, so idk.

allesandro1
11-22-17, 09:50 PM
I think that understanding the distinction between SCT and ADD is important because it's the first step in designing and discovering more effective treatment; that is, understanding that the symptoms of SCT are not under the auspices of executive function of the brain has significant implications both psychopharmacologically, psychodynamically, and behaviorally. Specifically, knowing that the mind wandering and slow information processing are controlled by the prefrontal cortex has significant implications for pharmacological intervention. Medications like Strattera and the SNRI's would be likey more effective because they decrease norepinephrine reuptake by the brain. It's important to know which neurotransmitters are affected so that we know which medications to target and which behavioral treatments to employ; that is, if the symptoms do not fall under executive function of the brain, why try to treat as though the person had control over it? Perhaps behavioral shaping methods of finding the functional baseline of a behavior and incrementally increasing it might be more effective ( I don't know, I'm just guessing).
I think just identifying this disorder, the part of the brain involved, and the implications of this for treatment is so important to the next step of fine tuning the psychodynamic treatment as well. The person needs to know why the ritalin had limited effects, and why the treatments they've tried thus far have met with limited success as well. It's the first step

Batman55
11-23-17, 01:13 AM
As far as I'm aware there is no treatment for SCT. I also think there are overlooked overlaps with people diagnosed with ADHD and autism. I have many autistic features but I can't see any point to getting it diagnosed as there is nothing to do for it. I just take myself as a quasi unique whole and work on my quasi unique problems as best I can. One lifetime is not sufficient. Lol

That is the way I think of it as well. I guess it may invalidate me as an accurate source of information about some things, since I haven't gone into much official investigation of what it is I have vs. don't have.

Social anxiety is definitely certain and diagnosed. And I do indeed have an informal ADD diagnosis which is good enough for me, I think ADD-I in my case cannot be questioned even if there is something else going on. I got that ADD diagnosis after a relatively long history of addiction/substance abuse, not to mention an entire lifetime of being told by teachers and everyone else that I'm "not paying attention, makes careless mistakes, daydreams too much" I have everything that goes along with ADD, it's a shame a proper intervention never occurred when it was so obvious.

But anyway it's a complex case as to what happened and I'm also at fault for a lot of things. I don't want to go over it all.

Batman55
11-23-17, 01:22 AM
It worries me a little that I feel like I could accurately say I would have trouble taking instructions, placing them in my long-term memory and recalling them accurately. I make a lot of little mistakes. I'm not sure if this is a good example, but nearly every time I put something together, no matter how carefully I read the instructions, I always read something wrong and have to go back and re-do things. Is that an example that sounds indicative of SCT? Or if someone is giving me directions, I have trouble even interpreting the first step of the instructions. It's not just that I'm trying to remember it, I might not even understand what they mean! It's entirely possible I'm just stupid.

Long sequences of instructions screw me up no matter what. I can't get the sequence of anything with a lot of steps to "stay in place" and recall it in the proper order without extreme repetition, and even that may not be good enough, I still make careless mistakes or forget steps or whatever.

Interpretation of directions is another related problem. I may read the instructions too literally or think it means something else altogether. Getting very clear instructions in short simple steps would work for me probably, as it seems nothing else does.

I feel that comprehension problems may be more of an autistic trait than ADD or SCT, but again I'm not sure. Problems with receptive language are a hallmark of autism.

Batman55
11-23-17, 01:26 AM
HFA and SCT

He did specifically bring up HFA. He said the symptoms are not the same, saying that people on the spectrum are aloof, while people with SCT are merely shy. It was around 31:00.


Excessive shyness as a child, I don't know if I was aloof then; shyness and aloofness as an adult. I don't want to be involved socially very much, it is too much processing and takes away too much energy, I don't have the flexibility to both socialize and attend to my own interests/routines/whatever.

OyVeyKitty
11-23-17, 07:07 AM
I apologize ahead of time for the length of this, Owly. I tried to break it up and make it as concise as I could to make it readable, but I'm in a bit of a rush and there was a lot going on in your post that I wanted to reply to. :o

I'm a little confused about what you mean by saying your "bored" daydreaming is different than the daydreaming when you drive.[...] It seems like when I space out while there is a lot of action and noise going on around me, it can't be due to boredom and seeking internal stimuli, so idk.

Personally, if there's a lot of noise or action around me it drives me absolutely bonkers. Not only can't I focus on anything, I can't daydream either. My attention will jump from one thing to the next and I won't have any control over it, I am pretty much incapacitated under those conditions.

As for the daydreaming, more specifically he called it mind-wandering. You can listen to that section around 1:02:00 (one hour, 2 minutes) into the video. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is either. It was just a wild hypothesis of mine that I based on my own experience and a guess of what might be different based on what he talked about in the video. Listening to it again, I think it might be better to interpret it more simply as daydreaming a lot more than people with ADHD do. That's of course difficult to quantify. :scratch:

He does talk about daydreaming in the video in other parts too, but they are all over the place. Just in case it helps, here's the list of proposed SCT symptoms from his lecture slides:


Daydreaming excessively
Trouble staying alert or awake in boring situations
Easily confused
Spacey or “in a fog”; Mind seems to be elsewhere
Stares a lot
Lethargic, more tired than others
Underactive or have less energy than others
Slow moving or sluggish
Doesn’t seem to understand or process information as quickly or accurately as others
Apathetic or withdrawn; less engaged in activities
Gets lost in thought
Slow to complete tasks
Needs more time than others (doesn’t discriminate from ADHD)
Lacks initiative to complete work or effort fades quickly (same)


Note that he also said that sometimes people with ADHD have trouble staying awake too, but people with SCT tend to be worse in this regard.

I not only forget the directions while they're being conveyed, but there are also times when I daydream and start thinking about something else completely. This happens to me very often. People will be talking to me and I don't even hear them, I'm completely in my own world. I don't even realize it starting to happen, I just finally "come to" and snap out of it. I though this was pretty common with ADD, though, so now I'm confused.

If someone is boring or talking at me instead of talking with me, my attention will go elsewhere pretty quickly too. I don't realize it's happening when it does either. It doesn't happen as much with friends, for example, because we're typically having interesting discussions or doing things and having fun. This is one of the things I wish Dr. Barkley had been more specific about, especially since it's supposed to be one of the major defining features of SCT. How do you draw the line between ADHD loss of attention and SCT daydreaming?

I did do some Googling around yesterday and here is what Russell Ramsay says in his book:

The classic presentation of ADHD involves [...] attention and sustained concentration being engaged but then being punctuated and interrupted. In contrast, SCT/CDD is characterized by difficulties orienting and engaging attention, effort, and alertness in the first place. Individuals with SCT/CDD exhibit difficulties associated with being day-dreamy, sleepy (particularly with boring tasks), lethargic and sluggish, the first two descriptors being the most distinctive factors of SCT/CDD.

The way I interpret that is that people with ADHD have no trouble starting to pay attention, but trying to sustain it doesn't work. People with SCT seem to have trouble even engaging their attention. So I guess someone with SCT might not even always notice when you start to talk to them? That would not happen with me, because any noise will draw my attention away from what I'm currently focusing on.

It worries me a little that I feel like I could accurately say I would have trouble taking instructions, placing them in my long-term memory and recalling them accurately. I make a lot of little mistakes. I'm not sure if this is a good example, but nearly every time I put something together, no matter how carefully I read the instructions, I always read something wrong and have to go back and re-do things. Is that an example that sounds indicative of SCT? Or if someone is giving me directions, I have trouble even interpreting the first step of the instructions. It's not just that I'm trying to remember it, I might not even understand what they mean! It's entirely possible I'm just stupid.

Aw no! :( You're definitely not stupid, that's for sure! This part sounds like what he described as a lack of accuracy in the video. If someone is giving me instructions verbally, there's a very good chance I will just have bits and pieces of it in my memory, but the bits and pieces will be more or less correct. Let me give an example of how this might look for me:

"OK, drive 2 miles north until you come to Cedar Road, then turn right and go to the Walmart immediately on the left. They have the peanut butter I really like. Oh, and pick up some bananas while you're at it, will you?"

My mind might have: "OK, drive north and find a Walmart somewhere and get PB and bananas," if I'm lucky. I don't have inaccurate information, just very lacking because I didn't have time to store specific directions. Memorizing anything at all only happens if my brain doesn't go haywire trying to remember specifics and if the instructions are any longer than this I will forget pretty much all of it anyway.

If I can read those instructions and consciously memorize them I will remember them pretty well. I can tell you that I need to drive two miles north, take a right and look for a Walmart to the left. I can tell you I need PB and bananas. If the list of items or directions is longer then I will start forgetting things, but I will almost never remember them incorrectly. Also, while at the store I can completely forget to buy some of the things I was supposed to get even though I knew I they were on the list. It might be because my attention is drawn elsewhere while shopping or simply because my mind is elsewhere, doing the mind-wandering thing.

Remember that this is just my interpretation based on one video and comparing its contents to my own life, so take everything I say with a good pinch of salt! Also, just for the sake of completion, there are people in the medical field who are critical and skeptical of SCT. As Dr. Barkley points out in the beginning of the video, he is sponsored in his research by the drug company Eli Lilly, which makes Strattera (which he proposes would be best for treatment of SCT.) I still think he makes a good case for SCT being a separate condition, but he isn't entirely without bias.

That's all I've got, but hopefully that clears some of it up a little at least. On the other hand, I'm still a bit confused about where we're supposed to draw the line with daydreaming and mind-wandering myself. :confused:

References:
Barkley, A. Russell (2014), Slides from lecture: The Second Attention Disorder: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B885LHMHOu5BNE51cUhNMUJiaWM/view, slide 8.
Ramsay, J. Russell (2014), Cognitive-behavioral therapy for adult ADHD: An integrative psychosocial and medical approach (2 ed.). Routledge. pp. 11–12.

Batman55
11-24-17, 12:45 AM
I wonder if anyone else has the "not good at anything" trait which may go hand in hand with being confused and lost all the time.

I was reading today how some Boy Scout achieved a rare feat of attaining all 139 merit badges--that's right, he achieved every single one possible--and was complaining that he didn't have more to get, all the while being heavily involved in student council and scoring perfect grades in every subject, and preparing to study electrical engineering in college.

I remembered that when I was in Boy Scouts, I guess I achieved the opposite rare feat of getting ZERO merit badges... largely because I did not know what was going on or what I was supposed to do, I was bored and uninterested, etc.

It's tangential I guess, but I think the point is probably a lot of SCT types--if they're even remotely similar to me--probably deal with a lot of envy, especially when high achievement is normalized and expected, not to mention, high-achievers are the only ones you ever hear about. It's a problem for me anyway. Maybe I should stop reading the news altogether?

SashaBV
11-24-17, 01:03 PM
I remember in college some students saying that they get more from lectures or discussion during study sessions. They said they didn't get as much from the book. OTOH, I understood better from the book...IF it was a good book that explained clearly the info. My ability to process info from lectures was a bit impaired, I think. My mind took more time to process what it heard, so it kind of depended on how fast a person was speaking. I tried recording lectures, and replaying them. I'd have to stop it and go back sometimes to try to understand it. With the book, I could do it more slowly. Time-consuming, however, either way. My daughter, who doesn't have ADD, didn't deal with that problem and could learn quickly without spending much time studying.