View Full Version : Never settle for doctors who deny treatment & assume they know everything


mrh235
07-03-17, 08:08 PM
I had to make this thread because I'm deeply concerned by how badly so many ADHDers are treated by doctors about ADHD and exploring whether or not they have it. Recognition and treatment of our condition grants us so much control and understanding over ourselves and our lives, but it's absolutely appalling how doctors will willfully deny people the treatment they need under false pretenses. This is the main reason why I'm in medical school, and becoming a physician. I want to help people like you and me with ADHD, people who were never understood as a kid (I wasn't diagnosed till age 21), and everyone around me who has this frustrating and misunderstood condition, so we never feel alone.

I went through this abuse from doctors at the beginning of my treatment six years ago, and am going through horrific experiences with the medical field right now that are very reminiscent of this.

If a doctor insists you don't have ADHD without even objectively evaluating you, that ADHD medicines are bad and indicative and can't explain anything, sneakily puts you on other medicines without informing you (happens way too often), or insults down, just don't settle for them, and try to stand your ground. ADHD isn't the same in every person and too many doctors act like there's only one way ADHD can express itself.

I know it is very hard to talk back to doctors when they're often so abrasive, rude, egotistical, and have a very intimidating role, but I promise it gets easier with time. The first experiences I had confronting rude power-tripping doctors, literally left me shaking physically, and had I never had my ADHD properly treated and recognized, I'd most likely be dead. It is only through fighting for treatment and understanding and finding a semi-decent physician who is at least willing to listen, have I been able to overcome my ADHD, and actually have control over your life.

I know it's extremely hurtful and aggravating beyond belief to have someone who you trust and expect to understand you, low-blow you, and just talk down to you, but raise your head high and stand strong. Find a good psychiatrist through trial and error if you can who will actually listen, and will objectively evaluate you, and even if you dont have ADHD this doctor would ideally point you in the right direction. Doctors often aren't very good listeners and attune themselves to filter out patient complaints, so if you restate and ask them if it makes sense, and what theyre going to that will hopefully help.

Some doctors also have a tendency to push assumptions on patients that may not be very accurate. Immediately, explain why they aren't the case, and ask if it makes sense. If they refuse to listen, ask why they won't listen, and to justify their explanations. If they push you on medicines that aren't related to ADHD, or won't properly explain them, don't take them.


I myself went through the medication treadmill and got put on SSRIs, lamictal, xanax, and several other medicines that all made my ADHD worse, impaired my working memory further, and that's just not acceptable.


If they won't treat your ADHD, and just want to label it as something else and treat that something else, just tell them it's unacceptable and see another doctor. Often when they don't know they'll only treat what they do know, or pretend it's something else, and that's just abhorrent. Considering the numerous costs of their services, they need to be able to listen, otherwise they're not doing their job and shouldn't be paid. If you don't understand why they're doing something definitely ask. Too often do they just do stuff, and every patient should be able to know why.

I hope this helps some of you in at least one form or another. There are good medical providers out there, even though they may be hard to find. Good or bad, none of them should ever deny them the care and understanding you need.

I wouldn't be anywhere in life if my ADHD wasn't properly recognized and treated, and it could have easily never been recognized, and it scares the hell out of me that anyone could easily end up in that situation. I'm very outspoken about doctors because I don't want that to happen to you or anyone else, and hope to help people like all of us. We are all in this together and it shouldn't be as hard as it is for some of us, ever. Any time we take a stance against doctors who won't provide us the care we need is a good thing.

Little Missy
07-03-17, 08:39 PM
I don't settle.

I make sure that they do not get paid.

mrh235
07-03-17, 08:51 PM
I don't settle.

I make sure that they do not get paid.

:goodpost: Great move! This is exactly why I've been causing a ruckus with my insurance company, and been getting them to drop bills. There's no reason doctors should be paid if they treat us horribly. They're paid for treating our conditions and us patients with respect, not playing god and power-tripping over us.

I've had to lodge a malpractice complaint against a really bad doctor too, and he got taken to task by the licensing board.

Lunacie
07-03-17, 09:11 PM
:goodpost: Great move! This is exactly why I've been causing a ruckus with my insurance company, and been getting them to drop bills. There's no reason doctors should be paid if they treat us horribly. They're paid for treating our conditions and us patients with respect, not playing god and power-tripping over us.

I've had to lodge a malpractice complaint against a really bad doctor too, and he got taken to task by the licensing board.

HOW did you do that? I had a really bad doctor once and reported him to the
state licensing board. Nothing ever came of it besides having the report in his
file.

mrh235
07-03-17, 09:42 PM
HOW did you do that? I had a really bad doctor once and reported him to the
state licensing board. Nothing ever came of it besides having the report in his
file.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Well, this doctor violated HIPAA about my ADHD, when I explicitly told him not to, lied about the reason why he wanted me to do an EEG, bullied me, and made condescending assumptions just because he hated stimulant medicines, even though he had no business being involved in treating my ADHD and I already had a good psychiatrist. I recorded everything he did, and explained how it affected me.
I reported him to the state licensing board in california (http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Breeze/Complaints.aspx) and the national licensing board. I explained specifically how he not only broke patient confidentiality but what he did hurt not only me but the entire medical profession.

I found out way later he received a significant fine from the medical licensing board for his actions.
Submit multiple complaints and explain as much as you can about how unethical it is, and they should ideally come in and tell him to change his behavior.


The medical field is so corrupt though, no it really is. Doctors will cover each other's bad actions so many times, and tragically a lot of these complaints never go anywhere because doctors are used to dehumanizing patients. There are very good physicians too, but they are often times very low profile because of what a lot of this field is like.

My experiences in medical school speak a lot for the medical field. Around 30%-50% of medical students abuse ADHD medicines, so they're very much used to thinking the rules don't apply to them, and there's a lot of cutthroat competition because a lot of people who got into medical school did so by lying about a lot of things and backstabbing a lot of people to get there. It's so messed up that some these doctors who will eventually be treating our condition and patients such as ourselves probably abused these medicines, and will be the ones who are supposedly making clinical decisions for us.

sarahsweets
07-04-17, 06:24 AM
I went through this abuse from doctors at the beginning of my treatment six years ago, and am going through horrific experiences with the medical field right now that are very reminiscent of this.

If a doctor insists you don't have ADHD without even objectively evaluating you, that ADHD medicines are bad and indicative and can't explain anything, sneakily puts you on other medicines without informing you (happens way too often), or insults down, just don't settle for them, and try to stand your ground. ADHD isn't the same in every person and too many doctors act like there's only one way ADHD can express itself.

I also get sick of doctor's trying to stamp everyone with their cookie cutter diagnosis's simply because they cant figure us out within the 30 minutes they allot themselves to see patients. Its almost like they would rather slap a diagnosis on your even if it is wrong than admit they are stumped or that more than one thing should be considered.

I know it is very hard to talk back to doctors when they're often so abrasive, rude, egotistical, and have a very intimidating role, but I promise it gets easier with time. The first experiences I had confronting rude power-tripping doctors, literally left me shaking physically, and had I never had my ADHD properly treated and recognized, I'd most likely be dead. It is only through fighting for treatment and understanding and finding a semi-decent physician who is at least willing to listen, have I been able to overcome my ADHD, and actually have control over your life.

It is hard to set boundaries and stand up for yourself. I have been dealing with some health problems for like 13 months and only recently got a diagnosis that makes sense. I was sent for so many tests and would explain how I felt and how it didnt match up with what they were saying I had and I had to get tough. Its like they looked at diagnosis's as notches in their " medical belt" and would rather have the notch then help the patient.

I know it's extremely hurtful and aggravating beyond belief to have someone who you trust and expect to understand you, low-blow you, and just talk down to you, but raise your head high and stand strong. Find a good psychiatrist through trial and error if you can who will actually listen, and will objectively evaluate you, and even if you dont have ADHD this doctor would ideally point you in the right direction. Doctors often aren't very good listeners and attune themselves to filter out patient complaints, so if you restate and ask them if it makes sense, and what theyre going to that will hopefully help.

Thats true. If a doctor says there is no way you have adhd and wants to medicate you for something else, ask why. Ask them why they want you to try medication for a condition that they think you have but do not have the facts to back it up.

Some doctors also have a tendency to push assumptions on patients that may not be very accurate. Immediately, explain why they aren't the case, and ask if it makes sense. If they refuse to listen, ask why they won't listen, and to justify their explanations. If they push you on medicines that aren't related to ADHD, or won't properly explain them, don't take them.

Doctor's are not Gods. For sure they bust their as*es in medical school and it costs a lot of money and time but that isnt some ticket to me a condescending jerk about it. If someone thinks they can be a jerk to me just because their medical school training cost them 200,000$ then they arent in it for the right reasons.

kilted_scotsman
07-04-17, 06:54 AM
I also get sick of doctor's trying to stamp everyone with their cookie cutter diagnosis's simply because they cant figure us out within the 30 minutes they allot themselves to see patients. Its almost like they would rather slap a diagnosis on your even if it is wrong than admit they are stumped or that more than one thing should be considered.

I like this.... remember.....when a psych uses the DSM, they're making a cookie-cutter diagnosis regardless of how long they take.

Lunacie
07-04-17, 03:32 PM
I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Well, this doctor violated HIPAA about my ADHD, when I explicitly told him not to, lied about the reason why he wanted me to do an EEG, bullied me, and made condescending assumptions just because he hated stimulant medicines, even though he had no business being involved in treating my ADHD and I already had a good psychiatrist. I recorded everything he did, and explained how it affected me.
I reported him to the state licensing board in california (http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Breeze/Complaints.aspx) and the national licensing board. I explained specifically how he not only broke patient confidentiality but what he did hurt not only me but the entire medical profession.

I found out way later he received a significant fine from the medical licensing board for his actions.
Submit multiple complaints and explain as much as you can about how unethical it is, and they should ideally come in and tell him to change his behavior.


The medical field is so corrupt though, no it really is. Doctors will cover each other's bad actions so many times, and tragically a lot of these complaints never go anywhere because doctors are used to dehumanizing patients. There are very good physicians too, but they are often times very low profile because of what a lot of this field is like.

My experiences in medical school speak a lot for the medical field. Around 30%-50% of medical students abuse ADHD medicines, so they're very much used to thinking the rules don't apply to them, and there's a lot of cutthroat competition because a lot of people who got into medical school did so by lying about a lot of things and backstabbing a lot of people to get there. It's so messed up that some these doctors who will eventually be treating our condition and patients such as ourselves probably abused these medicines, and will be the ones who are supposedly making clinical decisions for us.

How did you know about the HIPPA violation?

I had been going to a low cost clinic for help with chronic migraine, like daily.

They weren't willing to treat anything but my high blood pressure, which was
certainly too high. I figured it was pain causing my blood pressure to go so
high, turns out it was the meds I was taking for the pain ... mostly tylenol.
When I stopped taking that, my blood pressure was fine again.

Anyway, the physician I'd been seeing finally asked the head doctor to talk
with me. He asked a lot of great questions and I thought we were finally
getting somewhere.

He excused himself, then came back in and basically told me I was seeking
pain meds and that "God gave me the pain for a reason" so I'd just have to
live with it. They were basically done with me.

I NEVER asked for any pain meds. I just wanted someone to help somehow.

Again, bravo to you for standing up for yourself and your medical treatment.

PoppnNSailinMan
07-04-17, 03:52 PM
I also get sick of doctor's trying to stamp everyone with their cookie cutter diagnosis's simply because they cant figure us out within the 30 minutes they allot themselves to see patients.

Lots of doctors don't even have 30 minutes any more. The bean counters who run HMOs and clinics have been cutting appointment times down and now want them to be as short as 15 minutes. Unless a patient's problem is very straight forward or uncomplicated, how can a doctor do a proper evaluation in as little as 15 minutes? And what if there are several health issues to discuss?

aeon
07-04-17, 03:53 PM
Years ago, when I was looking for a doctor, I had the list of internal medicine specialists read to me. All I wanted to hear was their name and where they went to school.

When I heard The Pritzker School of Medicine, I knew we were done.

He is without question the best doctor I have ever had. He has always treated me with respect and I think and feel that I can say anything and I will be given fair consideration. He diagnosed my ADHD (at 41 years of age) and he has always been open to trying different meds, different dosages, different schedules. I didn't know this when I chose him, but he has a specialty in ADHD.

Yep, there are doctors out there who know nothing about ADHD. Find someone with a specialty in it like I did. It can make all the difference in the world.


Cheers,
Ian

Lunacie
07-04-17, 04:57 PM
Years ago, when I was looking for a doctor, I had the list of internal medicine specialists read to me. All I wanted to hear was their name and where they went to school.

When I heard The Pritzker School of Medicine, I knew we were done.

He is without question the best doctor I have ever had. He has always treated me with respect and I think and feel that I can say anything and I will be given fair consideration. He diagnosed my ADHD (at 41 years of age) and he has always been open to trying different meds, different dosages, different schedules. I didn't know this when I chose him, but he has a specialty in ADHD.

Yep, there are doctors out there who know nothing about ADHD. Find someone with a specialty in it like I did. It can make all the difference in the world.


Cheers,
Ian

I have no idea which school turns out the best doctor. Very few of them seem
to teach empathy.

PoppnNSailinMan
07-04-17, 05:48 PM
I have no idea which school turns out the best doctor. Very few of them seem
to teach empathy.

For a long time, the person I saw regularly for my healthcare was a Nurse Practitioner (NP) and he was better and much more empathetic than most MDs I've ever had.

Lunacie
07-04-17, 06:34 PM
For a long time, the person I saw regularly for my healthcare was a Nurse Practitioner (NP) and he was better and much more empathetic than most MDs I've ever had.

I hear that! My physician was out of office one day so I saw the Physician's
Assistant and she was amazing. She really listened to me and sent me for
x-rays for my back. It's been hurting for 40 years. I was told it was arthritis.
That was when I was 25. No one in all those years suggested getting an x-ray.
One of the little bones along my spine was broken off. Had been broken all
those years. Bridget is awesome. :D

mrh235
07-04-17, 06:50 PM
I also get sick of doctor's trying to stamp everyone with their cookie cutter diagnosis's simply because they cant figure us out within the 30 minutes they allot themselves to see patients. Its almost like they would rather slap a diagnosis on your even if it is wrong than admit they are stumped or that more than one thing should be considered.

Yea it's atrocious, almost none of them have the humility to say "I don't know" or think "maybe I should listen to the patient". They also have a ridiculous internal dialogue that basically goes like this - "lalalalala i'm not listening to anything you're saying because you're the patient and im the doctor, and i've been through so many years of school and training that that suddenly invalidates patient descriptions". No it doesn't, and most doctors would learn a lot more if they actually listened to. The cookie cutter diagnosis stuff is just such garbage, if they did a better job listening to and examining the patient they wouldn't have to do this.

They're perfectly fine with no solutions being found too a lot of the time as long as they get their reimbursement.


It is hard to set boundaries and stand up for yourself. I have been dealing with some health problems for like 13 months and only recently got a diagnosis that makes sense. I was sent for so many tests and would explain how I felt and how it didnt match up with what they were saying I had and I had to get tough. Its like they looked at diagnosis's as notches in their " medical belt" and would rather have the notch then help the patient.
I agree 100%, doctors also are used to be authoritarian and expecting everyone to rely on their word without question. I just advise to keep pushing to stand up for yourself the best you can, it's hard, but it comes easier. Question the tests, they cost a lot of money and it's a big jerk around. Questioning them on everything tends to shut them down or make them think, or unfortunately make them get even more snarky. If they're more snarky, I just push them harder.

I've been going through something similar over a really obvious inguinal hernia. I'm very good at articulating my symptoms and explaining, and I have the clinical background, but the majority of these doctors just can't listen, want to run all these unnecessary tests because they can make more money with it, and then once the test results come back negative they take your money and are like "there's nothing I can do for you".

They push diagnoses unreasonably when really it's not just about the diagnosis, it's about listening to the patient to find a working treatment, and actually addressing the issue. That's what they should do. For me though, none of them thought of a simple physical exam or common sense imaging tests. None of them would listen, I got told garbage like "patients can't choose their own treatments".

The way I look at it is the medical field is just like retail, if we aren't happy with the care or purchases we have, there's absolutely no obligation we have to follow it, or tolerate what doctors do


Thats true. If a doctor says there is no way you have adhd and wants to medicate you for something else, ask why. Ask them why they want you to try medication for a condition that they think you have but do not have the facts to back it up.

Exactly. Doctors act so sure of themselves when they really don't have a clue probably most of the time. In my experience in medical school, what we are taught is a lot of over-generalizing, overcategorical knowledge, and a lot of useless junk that probably won't help anyone.

When it comes to actual interaction with patients, in medical school we are taught to look at patients in a very patronizing way. For example, "patients can't possibly look out for themselves" and "it's okay to mislead patients to the right result". Even more disgustingly, we are taught to categorize patients based off of things like "if a patient is assertive about their health" they're "defiant patients" or "OCD patients". These don't deal with the diagnoses, we are literally trained to lump patients into boxes like that.


Doctor's are not Gods. For sure they bust their as*es in medical school and it costs a lot of money and time but that isnt some ticket to me a condescending jerk about it. If someone thinks they can be a jerk to me just because their medical school training cost them 200,000$ then they arent in it for the right reasons.

Exactly, and really a good majority of doctors will never understand what it's like to live with condition x, y, or z. they're just used to evaluating for it in a detached way, making their decisions, and washing their hands clean.

No amount of clinical knowledge or schooling gives anyone the right to dehumanize someone else or treat the patient like garbage. honestly, the more i learn the more I realize that a lot of the medical field and what doctors do is just "adept BSing".

mrh235
07-04-17, 07:02 PM
How did you know about the HIPPA violation?

I had been going to a low cost clinic for help with chronic migraine, like daily.

They weren't willing to treat anything but my high blood pressure, which was
certainly too high. I figured it was pain causing my blood pressure to go so
high, turns out it was the meds I was taking for the pain ... mostly tylenol.
When I stopped taking that, my blood pressure was fine again.

Anyway, the physician I'd been seeing finally asked the head doctor to talk
with me. He asked a lot of great questions and I thought we were finally
getting somewhere.

He excused himself, then came back in and basically told me I was seeking
pain meds and that "God gave me the pain for a reason" so I'd just have to
live with it. They were basically done with me.

I NEVER asked for any pain meds. I just wanted someone to help somehow.

Again, bravo to you for standing up for yourself and your medical treatment.


I knew this doc violated HIPAA because I explicitly told him and signed a form (i'm over 18) not to inform my parents about my treatment and condition because my mom covered up the fact I had ADHD for 20 years, so I never received treatment before then. He then pushes all these ridiculous tests on me like EEGs for no reason, which I say no to, and says the incredibly disgusting comment "it'd be a shame if mrh235 went through life with a condition he may not have". So disgusting. He broke confidentiality just because he thought he was too good to follow the rules.

The reason why he actually did all of this? He thinks stimulants are bad medicines, and wanted to put me on straterra. Could he be open and direct about any of that? Nope. Otherwise he would have found out that medicine didn't work for me. He basically just wanted to power-trip over my psych because he had biases against ADHD (probably didn't believe it existed and he probably abused stimulants when he was in med school).


God gave you the pain for a reason?! I mean no disrespect to anyone's religious beliefs, but that is such a horrible copout. It is literally the physician's job to address issues such as pain.

Just keep pushing with physicians like that is the best tip I can give. Don't take their no or bad answers as an answer.

Thank you for your kind words. It's been a long time coming for me to be able to stand my ground with these doctors.

I've had doctors who of course had no specialization in mental health basically accuse me of every mental health condition known to man in 5 minute evaluations.


Lots of doctors don't even have 30 minutes any more. The bean counters who run HMOs and clinics have been cutting appointment times down and now want them to be as short as 15 minutes. Unless a patient's problem is very straight forward or uncomplicated, how can a doctor do a proper evaluation in as little as 15 minutes? And what if there are several health issues to discuss?



I can't stand this. There is no way to do a thorough exam and patient history to diagnose things like ADHD in that short of time. It just caters to rushed improper medical care and really cranky providers, and irritated patients. I'd never use an HMO like Kaiser for mental health because the protocols they follow are so ridiculous.


I have no idea which school turns out the best doctor. Very few of them seem
to teach empathy.


You sure hit the nail on the head with this one. Real talk, medical school doesn't teach empathy, and it's very hard to teach empathy to individuals who are seriously cutthroat competitive and a good portion of sabotaged a lot of other students to get into medical school, and lied about a lot of things to get through the interview.

What medical school teaches instead of empathy is belittling patients, there's a pervasive attitude that patients can't do anything on their own, and the clinical interaction training I've experienced is basically just emotional manipulation.

It's being trained to act like you care about the patient when you don't and you just want them to do a certain thing. It's basically "used car salesman" empathy. There is very little emphasis in patient care in medical school, and what little is gets squashed out of med students by the toxic hierarchy and training where you're taught "if you don't fall in line you're gone".

I hear that! My physician was out of office one day so I saw the Physician's
Assistant and she was amazing. She really listened to me and sent me for
x-rays for my back. It's been hurting for 40 years. I was told it was arthritis.
That was when I was 25. No one in all those years suggested getting an x-ray.
One of the little bones along my spine was broken off. Had been broken all
those years. Bridget is awesome. :D


I'm so happy you were finally able to find a provider who could bother to understand you. It's unbelievable you went through that >:(. I have similar back issues so I can definitely relate.
This is so true. I have to say Nurses, and PAs are actually way better listeners than doctors. They don't have as much of the arrogance over studying a million random facts that have almost nothing to do with most of the conditions and patients they encounter. I'm really supportive of nurses and PAs being able to do more stuff physicians can.

Physicians just have too much power, and when it's used incorrectly, it really hurts patients, and there's very little culpability for that