View Full Version : Boss says we need to discuss 'several issues'


anonymouslyadd
07-23-17, 07:02 PM
My pseudo-boss wants to discuss several issues that occurred last week. She wasn't specific. However, the issues were severe enough for her to mention disciplinary action. Please share your experiences as they come to mind. What do you think about how she handled this?

I was floored and still am shocked. Upper management loves me. I'm one of the top salesman. My customers love me and mention me in online reviews.

Somehow, many issues occurred that involved me, last week?

It irks me that the pseudo-boss wouldn't specify what she wanted to discuss with me, and I even told her that I was worried. The fact that she did this through email speaks volumes of her professionalism, in this case.

Why would she email me about a meeting instead of calling? Why even let me know about the meeting? Why not do it on the spot?

I've never been more confident in a work situation in my life. I love my job. I love talking to my customers. I do test boundaries, always respectfully, and maybe that's irked a lot of people. Too bad. As long as I'm doing what I know in my heart is right, I will continue to do what I've been doing. If I'm respectful and kind and feel in my heart that I'm right, I cannot be wrong. Ever.

Little Missy
07-23-17, 08:00 PM
What a cheap shot. Emailing you so your entire weekend is whacked until tomorrow.

Stand straight and tall. Good always triumphs over evil.

Pilgrim
07-23-17, 09:34 PM
What a cheap shot. Emailing you so your entire weekend is whacked until tomorrow.

Stand straight and tall. Good always triumphs over evil.

Stay confident, sounds like to me ( pseudo boss ) might have a problem with you.

If you think your good and you are hold on to it.

someothertime
07-23-17, 11:58 PM
Reminds me of when I was teaching and 99% of students and colleagues loved what I did.....

Then one or two small things would spring up mostly because one or two, largely periphal minority people had a gripe.

Yup, I took it personally and it effected my view of my job, management, etc. etc.

O' I wish I had been able to detach a bit more, try stay pragmatic and see these peripheral matters as just that, nod my head and let them blow over...... Resistance even if truth within systems spawns collateral pressures..... just not worth it. ( At least when it effects your livelyhood and day to day enjoyment of the majority of what you do ).....

stef
07-24-17, 12:11 AM
Oh, that is just nasty!
It will probably turn out that the " issues" are incredibly minor.
some people enjoy this kind of a management technique, and it 's pathetic

I worked in a terrible place and that was kind of the mindset.

also at this job, once the HR manager called me to see her in the afternoon and I just started, and i was sure it was to say i didnt pass the " trial period" ( standard in work contacts here)

all she wanted was to ask me, to help out a colleague who was about to go on maternity leave and had a ton of filing and wasnt supposed to be carrying around binders.

stay pragmatic and if you have something with stats showing how well you're doing, print that out. bring a notepad ( you may actually want to write something down) and slip it in the back.

namazu
07-24-17, 12:36 AM
Why would she email me about a meeting instead of calling?
Why would anyone call and interrupt you when they could just e-mail you, like a civilized person, and give you a heads-up in writing? ;) (Granted, I hate phone calls, and would much rather get an e-mail, myself...) At least she's giving you a heads-up instead of totally blindsiding you!

I hope that it's nothing major, just some minor administrative things that can be easily fixed. Paperwork out of order, something like that.

I second Stef's suggestion of preparing some stats for yourself...sales, whatever other measurements are relevant for your work...and reminding yourself what you bring to the job. As you've said, you're a great salesman, and some influential people like your work, so you have that in your favor.

I would suggest not going in all defensive, with the attitude that you can do no wrong, or you may end up sticking your foot in your mouth hard, or otherwise saying things that don't help your case. It's possible that there is something you weren't aware of that could help you grow, so be prepared to receive constructive criticism. You can evaluate it later and decide to take it or leave it (or tell her to shove it), but have open ears and an open mind.

EDIT: Also may be a good idea to jot notes for your reference -- if there are things you need to do, it would be good to have a record of them. And if what she's saying is BS, having a record could make it easier for you to document that it's BS and how you're actually exceeding expectations.

Best wishes for a productive meeting!

anonymouslyadd
07-24-17, 01:27 AM
O' I wish I had been able to detach a bit more, try stay pragmatic and see these peripheral matters as just that, nod my head and let them blow over...... Resistance even if truth within systems spawns collateral pressures..... just not worth it. ( At least when it effects your livelyhood and day to day enjoyment of the majority of what you do ).....
I'm sorry how that experience worked out for you. I've been there. I know that taking matters personally will only hurt me. Taking things personally makes me feel like I'm out of control of my circumstances.

I treat my customers like treasure, and when they don't receive the service they deserve, I attack the issue until it's solved. I owe them that.

It sucks that I can't prepare for the meeting. I think I'll write some things that I think she may say so that I'm prepared to respond or just be silent.

I'm wondering if I'm going to have to take a bunch of criticism and just deal with it.

anonymouslyadd
07-24-17, 01:32 AM
stay pragmatic and if you have something with stats showing how well you're doing, print that out. bring a notepad ( you may actually want to write something down) and slip it in the back.
What do you mean? What do you suggest that I write down? Should I have a script prepared? I'm thinking that I'll show her that I respect her and her words. I will show her that I'm listening intently and hear her. I also hope to not appear defensive.:(

It's a great idea to bring in statistics. I just don't want to appear like I have leverage that I actually don't have. Whether I believe it's an issue or not, they do, and that's the most important thing I guess. However, I feel better when doing what I feel is right and dealing with the consequences later. I'm not on this earth to make people happy. :cool:

anonymouslyadd
07-24-17, 01:49 AM
Why would anyone call and interrupt you when they could just e-mail you, like a civilized person, and give you a heads-up in writing? ;) (Granted, I hate phone calls, and would much rather get an e-mail, myself...) At least she's giving you a heads-up instead of totally blindsiding you!
True! Either scenario stinks, but I'd choose the immediacy of being blindsided over anxiety-filled waiting. Isn't it better to handle issues as they come instead of waiting? I'm surprised that she would conduct herself in this way. Seriously. I have a decent amount of respect for her and what she does.
I hope that it's nothing major, just some minor administrative things that can be easily fixed. Paperwork out of order, something like that.
I wish. Could it really be that simple? Why would she mention potential disciplinary action?
I second Stef's suggestion of preparing some stats for yourself...sales, whatever other measurements are relevant for your work...and reminding yourself what you bring to the job. As you've said, you're a great salesman, and some influential people like your work, so you have that in your favor.
Good idea!

My philosophy is that I'm doing what I need to do in order to increase sales and grow the company. That's our goal. Maybe they don't agree with how I'm going about it? Maybe they don't see it how I see it. I've learned about sales and have read things on sales. I believe that my methodology is the best around.
I would suggest not going in all defensive, with the attitude that you can do no wrong, or you may end up sticking your foot in your mouth hard, or otherwise saying things that don't help your case. It's possible that there is something you weren't aware of that could help you grow, so be prepared to receive constructive criticism. You can evaluate it later and decide to take it or leave it (or tell her to shove it), but have open ears and an open mind.
I emailed her back and said that I look forward to our meeting and learning from her experience in operations. I wanted her to know that I valued her experience. I've also learned to make jokes like "I love being criticized. It reminds me of being young again." I like to say and do things that help me feel more empowered.
EDIT: Also may be a good idea to jot notes for your reference -- if there are things you need to do, it would be good to have a record of them. And if what she's saying is BS, having a record could make it easier for you to document that it's BS and how you're actually exceeding expectations.
Will do!

:grouphug:

stef
07-24-17, 03:23 AM
What do you mean? What do you suggest that I write down? Should I have a script prepared? I'm thinking that I'll show her that I respect her and her words. I will show her that I'm listening intently and hear her. I also hope to not appear defensive.:(

It's a great idea to bring in statistics. I just don't want to appear like I have leverage that I actually don't have. Whether I believe it's an issue or not, they do, and that's the most important thing I guess. However, I feel better when doing what I feel is right and dealing with the consequences later. I'm not on this earth to make people happy. :cool:

No, i mean you may want to write something down, during the meeting!
also it looks like you mean business, coming in with a notepad. (ok that is just my thoughts on this, though :) )

also if you're unconfortable with eye contact at some point, jot some notes down...

and if you have some statistics or things like that, and you find it may be useful at some point in the conversation, you can just slide them out from under the pages of the notepad.

Unmanagable
07-24-17, 10:37 AM
Good advice above.

Even though it feels like it's in really poor taste, I doubt if she was trying to purposely set you up to ruin your weekend, but the emotional dysregulation and negative self-talk that goes along with having adhd (etc.) surely doesn't help matters.

If she was purposely being a b****, there's not really much you can do about it other than adjust your feelings for the time being. We only have full control over our own choices and how we process what others do.

I, too, remember being praised daily for doing such a great job by students, parents, co-workers, admin staff, community contacts, etc., for 13 years.

I always felt competent, confident, and on top of my game and pretty damn proud of my accomplishments. Finally!!! A place I can function and be appreciated for my abilities.

I also felt like I had my methods down pat, made time to continue to learn and improve, welcomed feedback from others who observed me daily, and was operating at my optimal level, I mean, the verbal and written feedback was all continually heading in that direction, how could I think otherwise?

However, once I spoke up and brought to light several pretty serious unethical issues that were happening that I felt needed to be looked into a lot deeper and dealt with and presented them with supporting documented proof, they made my life a living hell from that day forward, until I eventually resigned. HR was the first place I opened up to about my concerns.

Tread wisely and cautiously, but not overly cautious to the point of withdrawing, and don't approach anything right off the bat with a "know it all" attitude of any sort, even if you know for sure you are 100% correct and have proof in hand to back it up.

HR departments exist for the company's benefit, NOT the employee's, as many are led to believe.

Remain an observer, not a reactor.

Give yourself time to absorb and digest what she says before responding. Tell her you appreciate her making time to give you feedback and that you'd appreciate a little time to think it over before giving any definite answers to anything.

Responding after some thought vs. impulsively reacting could go a long way in helping to think and actively work your way through it.

I'd leave out the joke about being criticized making you feel young again, as that may send a message that you feel you are above receiving feedback now that you're older. Maybe not, but why chance it, especially in the work environment. Best wishes.

namazu
07-24-17, 06:46 PM
Do you know when the meeting will happen (or has it already)? Sending good thoughts your way!

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 01:11 AM
Do you know when the meeting will happen (or has it already)? Sending good thoughts your way!
It happened. It was about two and half hours long. I almost cried in the bathroom during our break.

I made a couple mistakes last week, and she began looking into all of my actions. However, it seemed like she needed me to believe her or believe in what she was saying. The reality was that she's the boss and I needed to follow her orders regardless of whether I agreed with them or not.

She seemed upset that I was prepared and when I presented my facts, she brushed them off. This is the same person who mentioned the importance of data.

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 01:35 AM
No, i mean you may want to write something down, during the meeting!
also it looks like you mean business, coming in with a notepad. (ok that is just my thoughts on this, though :) )

also if you're unconfortable with eye contact at some point, jot some notes down...

and if you have some statistics or things like that, and you find it may be useful at some point in the conversation, you can just slide them out from under the pages of the notepad.
Very smart. I like the idea of making a note when eye contact becomes difficult.

She actually brushed off my stats and seemed to resent the fact that I came in prepared. I wasn't going to go into the meeting unprepared. They've done that before: come at us with a problem that had been building and shovel a whole bunch of facts down our throats, leaving us bewildered and unable to respond or provide an explanation.

Only my unabated acknowledgement was accepted. I was very honest. I told her how shocked about the implications.

I wish my negotiating skills were a little better. I might have been able to influence her better.

namazu
07-25-17, 01:38 AM
It happened. It was about two and half hours long. I almost cried in the bathroom during our break.

I made a couple mistakes last week, and she began looking into all of my actions. However, it seemed like she needed me to believe her or believe in what she was saying. The reality was that she's the boss and I needed to follow her orders regardless of whether I agreed with them or not.
Glad you survived the meeting, even if it wasn't easy or pleasant. :grouphug:
Do you have a plan going forward?

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 01:58 AM
Glad you survived the meeting, even if it wasn't easy or pleasant. :grouphug:
Do you have a plan going forward?
I'm not sure. I just applied for another job.

What kind of advice do you have for me at the present position? I need to keep on growing. I hope I will always do what I feel in my heart is right, even if it brings upon negativity. I don't know. It seems like I just need to placate this lady and work according to her rules, even though they won't make me more successful.

acdc01
07-25-17, 02:58 AM
I'm not sure. I just applied for another job.

What kind of advice do you have for me at the present position? I need to keep on growing. I hope I will always do what I feel in my heart is right, even if it brings upon negativity. I don't know. It seems like I just need to placate this lady and work according to her rules, even though they won't make me more successful.

Personally, I think you are doing the right thing by looking for another job. Or is there a way for your pseudo boss to become not your boss at all? Perhaps if you have connections higher up you can get yourself transferred to some other supervisor. At any rate, I don't think you can work under her long term.

Seems she doesn't like you and if that is the case, it probably won't change. Even in the almost nonexistent chance that it did, I'm not sure whether you can achieve that without becoming/acting like someone you yourself wouldn't like. Pretty sure you'd have to kiss her ***. Which is what most people who succeed do so might be the smart thing though at this point, I'm not sure even that would work.

Oh and as far as the errors go. My lawyer once told me that a company can always find errors to screw you over with cause people are human and everyone makes errors. When they like someone, they ignore the errors and when they don't like someone, they use the exact same errors to hang them with. I suspect that's what your boss did with you. So don't feel bad about the errors, you're human and everyone makes mistakes once in a while.

Sorry this is happening to you. Rigid, control freak bosses are the worst. Though I do wonder if you should ask yourself whether it is just your boss (who certainly has acted poorly) or if you have issues with authority/following directions just in case you do have the issue and it might possibly affect you in the future. I'm absolutely not saying you have any issues - I just can't know from just a post so suggest you ask yourself that question.

Best wishes to you.

stef
07-25-17, 06:35 AM
Two and a half hours :(
So sorry to hear you had to go through that; I agree totall with the aadvice above.

kilted_scotsman
07-25-17, 09:11 AM
<QUOTE>My philosophy is that I'm doing what I need to do in order to increase sales and grow the company. That's our goal.</QUOTE>

This is the way of thinking that got me screwed over so many times. This is what people say the goal is....but it's not the way that groups of people work.

The problem is that the stated "objective" of the organisation is not the objective of the people in it.

If you go for the organisational objective..... which is usually simple and frequently stated, you avoid the discomfort of experiencing the conflicting interpersonal objectives of your fellow workers and customers.

The idea of "I know this is the right thing to do for the company" is irrelevant to both your co-workers and your bosses. It doesn't matter if you get great sales figures and your customers will pay twice as much to buy from you.

What matters is the underlying subconscious interactions. The organisational psychologist Berne said there are two levels of interaction... the overt which is what we consciously hear (and sometimes see), and the "ulterior" which happens at a subconscious level. He said the outcome of the interaction is DEFINED by the ULTERIOR PROCESS.

This means that you can do great things and boost the organisation as much as you want.... if you ignore the ulterior transactions of your peers you will eventually be disciplined/fired.

This is where we ADDers mess up so often...... we do the overt stuff but miss the messy interpersonal stuff which actually defines what happens.

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 10:16 PM
The idea of "I know this is the right thing to do for the company" is irrelevant to both your co-workers and your bosses. It doesn't matter if you get great sales figures and your customers will pay twice as much to buy from you.

What matters is the underlying subconscious interactions. The organisational psychologist Berne said there are two levels of interaction... the overt which is what we consciously hear (and sometimes see), and the "ulterior" which happens at a subconscious level. He said the outcome of the interaction is DEFINED by the ULTERIOR PROCESS.

This means that you can do great things and boost the organisation as much as you want.... if you ignore the ulterior transactions of your peers you will eventually be disciplined/fired.
This is an interesting point. I'll have to think on this.

Where did you learn about that Bernie guy? What book can you recommend for me to help me gain understanding and perspective?

I do what my brother and this guy, Joe Girard (known as the world's greatest salesman), have taught me about sales. My brother was the most successful in his group selling door-to-door.

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 10:30 PM
Seems she doesn't like you and if that is the case, it probably won't change. Even in the almost nonexistent chance that it did, I'm not sure whether you can achieve that without becoming/acting like someone you yourself wouldn't like. Pretty sure you'd have to kiss her ***. Which is what most people who succeed do so might be the smart thing though at this point, I'm not sure even that would work.
Thank you for the advice.

There's something about me that irks her very much. I was reading about controlling people last night in bed. Very interesting. I saw her in my reading.

People like her seem to last in organizations. How she portrays herself is very key. She's very sweet, a beautiful woman. She's also very charming. All of this made it difficult for me to see her insecurities, which came out during our meeting. Very interesting.

I'm bummed and am weary that I'm beginning to take all of this personally. :(

anonymouslyadd
07-25-17, 10:40 PM
I walked into the owner's office first thing today and told him about the meeting. I was calm, cool and frank. I made sure not to seem like I was taking it personally or anything.

I told him that every explanation with facts was brushed aside. I told him that I felt there was something about me that irked her. He acknowledged that and said that's why he leaves his door opened. :)

He also said that she was not my boss and to worry about selling. I'm wondering how I can ensure that she feels in control so I can avoid future backlash. I think if I can help her feel like she's in control, even though she really isn't, my life here will be easier.

Pilgrim
07-26-17, 12:06 AM
I couldn't agree more about what Kilted just said. Those ulterior motives are really what makes those situations tick.

I remember a friend saying to me once, ' those people done up in a pretty bow ' are always to be weary of.

I hope this helps but make yourself as small a target as possible. A good thing is that she is really not your boss. I've sort of always lived by the mantra anything you say will be used against you. I've also learned of late, if you end to defend yourself do so with grace. Goodluck.

sarahsweets
07-26-17, 04:42 AM
Since your actual boss thinks you are doing fine and because he told you to ignore the fake boss, then any further interaction with the fake boss should always be documented, even if you write down the date,time, and subject of your interactions. You want to protect yourself. Anything you can get thats solid, like emails, notes etc. should be kept in a file so you can show your actual boss. Did your boss tell you what to do when she gets involved in your business? Its one thing to tell you to ignore her, but you need to know what to do when you have to deal with her.

Little Missy
07-26-17, 05:48 AM
Block her from emailing you. :D

kilted_scotsman
07-27-17, 01:32 PM
THe guy I mentioned was called Eric Berne. He wrote several books on Group dynamics and organisations. The easiest to read is called "Games People Play"

acdc01
07-27-17, 08:42 PM
He also said that she was not my boss and to worry about selling. I'm wondering how I can ensure that she feels in control so I can avoid future backlash. I think if I can help her feel like she's in control, even though she really isn't, my life here will be easier.

Have to say, I'm a little disappointed in your bosses actions. He didn't really fix the problem between you and your pseudo boss so there wouldn't be future confrontations.

I'd personally let it go for now but if she seems ****** off at you again, I'd personally go to your boss again and ask if there is a way to make her understand she's not responsible for you and your actions so she doesn't have to provide any instructions or supervise you(aka she's not your boss, butt out). I'd also say "like maybe say blah blah blah to her". Basically, feed him the exact words you recommend so he has a better chance of handling the situation right this time. He should say things in a way that doesn't upset her, makes her feel like she's in trouble, or let her know that you ratted her out to your boss.


Are you 100% sure your boss is on your side and didn't just say those things to appease you while he secretly doesn't like you? Cause if he doesn't like you, I'd still look for another job.

acdc01
07-27-17, 08:51 PM
About your question on how to make her less controlling of you.

Two things pop into my mind. One is to get her to like you more. The other is to make her feel safe, so she knows you got things covered - people Control cause they feel insecure I think.

Making her understand you've got things covered isn't just about showing her your results. My mom uswd to never feel safe when I was helping her sell a car or house while she felt perfectly safe with my sister. It's not cause my sister has better results than me. It's cause my sister thinks much more similarly to the way my mom thinks than I do. So she feels assured my sister will do what is best which in her mind is what she herself would do. That said, she now is less scared of me cause by now, she's seen my results more after all these years. You could also make sure your pseudo boss sees your results but do it in a way that doesn't seem like you are bragging.

Overall though, very hard thing to do if it's even possible

anonymouslyadd
07-28-17, 12:51 AM
Since your actual boss thinks you are doing fine and because he told you to ignore the fake boss, then any further interaction with the fake boss should always be documented, even if you write down the date,time, and subject of your interactions. You want to protect yourself. Anything you can get thats solid, like emails, notes etc. should be kept in a file so you can show your actual boss. Did your boss tell you what to do when she gets involved in your business? Its one thing to tell you to ignore her, but you need to know what to do when you have to deal with her.
That's a good point. The communication here is on the weak side but improving. He didn't tell me what to do when she injects her hooks into everything I do.

I guess I'll try to placate her until I can figure out the best course of action.:umm1:

anonymouslyadd
07-28-17, 12:54 AM
I couldn't agree more about what Kilted just said. Those ulterior motives are really what makes those situations tick.

I remember a friend saying to me once, ' those people done up in a pretty bow ' are always to be weary of.

I hope this helps but make yourself as small a target as possible. A good thing is that she is really not your boss. I've sort of always lived by the mantra anything you say will be used against you. I've also learned of late, if you end to defend yourself do so with grace. Goodluck.
This lady will out last everyone. People like her always do. She comes across as someone very concerned and hard working. Those maybe true. However, her controlling nature is really what drives her.

Thanks.

anonymouslyadd
07-28-17, 01:07 AM
Have to say, I'm a little disappointed in your bosses actions. He didn't really fix the problem between you and your pseudo boss so there wouldn't be future confrontations.

I'd personally let it go for now but if she seems ****** off at you again, I'd personally go to your boss again and ask if there is a way to make her understand she's not responsible for you and your actions so she doesn't have to provide any instructions or supervise you(aka she's not your boss, butt out). I'd also say "like maybe say blah blah blah to her". Basically, feed him the exact words you recommend so he has a better chance of handling the situation right this time. He should say things in a way that doesn't upset her, makes her feel like she's in trouble, or let her know that you ratted her out to your boss.


Are you 100% sure your boss is on your side and didn't just say those things to appease you while he secretly doesn't like you? Cause if he doesn't like you, I'd still look for another job.
The real boss is also the owner, and I believe he likes me. They just did a major reorganization a few weeks ago, and surprisingly, they kept me! They even let go of the guy who hired me.

However, I'll still look for new work. People like her always last. Don't they?

She's very controlling, but comes across as professional, polite and hard-working. The reality is that while there may be a part of her that's driven by a strong work ethic, most of her behavior is driven by control. I wouldn't have recognized this if I hadn't gotten help here and a friend IRL.

anonymouslyadd
07-28-17, 01:18 AM
About your question on how to make her less controlling of you.

Two things pop into my mind. One is to get her to like you more. The other is to make her feel safe, so she knows you got things covered - people Control cause they feel insecure I think.
About a month and a half ago, I learned that she was having panic attacks. To show my concern, I sent her a physical card with a picture of she and her son on it. I told her how I hoped that she would feel better and was vital to the success of our organization.
Making her understand you've got things covered isn't just about showing her your results. My mom uswd to never feel safe when I was helping her sell a car or house while she felt perfectly safe with my sister. It's not cause my sister has better results than me. It's cause my sister thinks much more similarly to the way my mom thinks than I do. So she feels assured my sister will do what is best which in her mind is what she herself would do. That said, she now is less scared of me cause by now, she's seen my results more after all these years. You could also make sure your pseudo boss sees your results but do it in a way that doesn't seem like you are bragging.
It will be difficult for me to align my philosophy with hers. This is of major concern. She doesn't get sales. She's more concerned about the process than sales.

How can I show someone results without coming across as bragging? Ben Franklin used to let people know how industrious he was by pushing around a squeaky wheelbarrow. I get people to write online reviews about our company and include my name in the review.

acdc01
07-28-17, 05:04 AM
About a month and a half ago, I learned that she was having panic attacks. To show my concern, I sent her a physical card with a picture of she and her son on it. I told her how I hoped that she would feel better and was vital to the company

She sounds like someone who's really not going to change her mind no matter what you do.

I don't understand this pseudo boss thing. Why doesn't she know shes not your boss and she's not in charge of you so stop interfering? Your boss really should take action. It's not that usually that big a deal to have a coworker dislike you if the boss, the owner, likes you. But is is a problem when someone who is in charge of you dislikes you.

Pilgrim
07-28-17, 10:47 AM
I walked into the owner's office first thing today and told him about the meeting. I was calm, cool and frank. I made sure not to seem like I was taking it personally or anything.

I told him that every explanation with facts was brushed aside. I told him that I felt there was something about me that irked her. He acknowledged that and said that's why he leaves his door opened. :)

He also said that she was not my boss and to worry about selling. I'm wondering how I can ensure that she feels in control so I can avoid future backlash. I think if I can help her feel like she's in control, even though she really isn't, my life here will be easier.

A couple of things, personal opinions.
Probably wasn't a bad idea in letting your boss know the state of things. In regards to employees bosses are only interested in 3 things. Ability, punctuality and how they get on with others.
I've seen people keep there job although they are horrible to get along with.
Try to put her out of your mind, it won't help dwelling on her.
Your boss won't do anything, or say anything to her, in regards to this incident.

There is much more to this situation but I found that when I put all my energy into the performance side of work this was a mistake. Cause when I'm fatigued that's when I'm likely to have a problem with someone. I always performed but stopped making it the be all and end all.

anonymouslyadd
07-28-17, 10:59 PM
She sounds like someone who's really not going to change her mind no matter what you do.

I don't understand this pseudo boss thing. Why doesn't she know shes not your boss and she's not in charge of you so stop interfering? Your boss really should take action. It's not that usually that big a deal to have a coworker dislike you if the boss, the owner, likes you. But is is a problem when someone who is in charge of you dislikes you.
I know. It's bizarre. I guess I need to talk with our President when he gets back from vacation. In the flowchart he sent out, she had Sales Management under her control. However, when the president first met with us a few weeks ago, he said that we didn't have a boss, which meant that he was our boss. That's what I thought he meant.

anonymouslyadd
07-29-17, 12:00 AM
In a sense, kilted is right. If you trample over relationships and certain expectations, then you could be in to a big problem. I have no problem playing by the rules of the team. I do have a problem when systemic issues continue and are not fixed.

acdc01
07-29-17, 01:12 AM
I know. It's bizarre. I guess I need to talk with our President when he gets back from vacation. In the flowchart he sent out, she had Sales Management under her control. However, when the president first met with us a few weeks ago, he said that we didn't have a boss, which meant that he was our boss. That's what I thought he meant.

Can you ask a friendly coworker first about the chain of authority - without mentioning your dispute with the woman? Be careful. Not sure it's a good idea to ask your boss again though I don't think the first time hurt. I'm a little worried your boss was just telling you crap to placate you.

If it were between that woman and you, who would he keep? If she's higher up, most companies keep the higher up person even when they are the wrong ones.

Also, the way you talk about systemic issues and such. Your attitude is definitely a negative in most, not all, but nearly all companies. They like people who put on a shiny smile, keep their mouths shut, and just stay perky positive to all the company crap even if they'd be better off listening to you. It's just one negative, perhaps your positives outweigh your negatives. Obviously that lady doesn't think so.

Not being in your shoes I'm not sure if I'm seeing the situation right so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

kilted_scotsman
07-29-17, 08:45 AM
Living with systemic issues is really tough..... but sometimes we have to do it.... the art is working out how to keep our boundaries and not get personally stressed by the madness.

My experience is that the madness is the rule, not the exception. When I was young I didn't realise this and kept hunting for the sane places. Trouble is sane places are so rare that no one ever leaves them... so no vacancies, and sane places don't do "growth" like insane places, so very few new posts!

In addition sane places tend to hire sane people..... people who are known to or vouched for by other sane people..... and the art of the sane person is to blend in with the insanity, but still get things done, by using their intuition to identify other sane people..... or use their superior intuitive skills to "manage" the people around them.

Being able to remain sane in an insane environment, while seeking out and connecting to a network of other sane people is the main professional tool of the sane person.

This means that they get hired into saner places and can move on at a time that suits them if the insanity increases.

One of the things that is useful is the "Life Positions" (aka Ernst's "OK Corral") in it's simplest form this says that the place to be is to feel that "I'm OK, You're OK" even when confronted by illogical behaviour..... be cause there are reasons for the odd behaviour that make some kind of sense in the world of the person doing them.

sarahsweets
07-29-17, 01:41 PM
I dont think there is anything wrong with getting your real boss to clarify the chain of command. It shows you are interested in the company and your place in it. Once you know for sure that she has little to nothing to do with your place as an employee you can answer everything she says to you "Thanks for your feedback, Ill think about that."

anonymouslyadd
07-29-17, 07:26 PM
Also, the way you talk about systemic issues and such. Your attitude is definitely a negative in most, not all, but nearly all companies. They like people who put on a shiny smile, keep their mouths shut, and just stay perky positive to all the company crap even if they'd be better off listening to you. It's just one negative, perhaps your positives outweigh your negatives. Obviously that lady doesn't think so.
I think I've generally been very good at maintaining a positive outlook at my company. I often bring humor into discussions and feel like I contribute to a more positive environment than most. It ****** me off because my psuedo-boss was the right hand man of our COO, who was running our organization down. Did she question him like she did to me? Consider what has occurred over the last several months:


Had four separate bosses
Company realignment/reorganization, with multiple layoffs
Multiple promises and deadlines not being kept

Through it all, I've maintained my optimism for the company and the prospects for the future. I wrote a company-wide email with "Holding On" in the subject line not that long ago. The premise of the email was that difficult times will occur, but we'll get through those hard times if we hold on.

anonymouslyadd
07-29-17, 07:29 PM
Can you ask a friendly coworker first about the chain of authority - without mentioning your dispute with the woman? Be careful. Not sure it's a good idea to ask your boss again though I don't think the first time hurt. I'm a little worried your boss was just telling you crap to placate you.
I don't know who I can trust. The guy next to me loves to talk and gossip. I don't believe he can help himself.

The other day, I talked to the owner, not the president. I believe the president is our direct boss. I'm thinking of talking to him.

anonymouslyadd
07-29-17, 07:55 PM
My experience is that the madness is the rule, not the exception. When I was young I didn't realise this and kept hunting for the sane places. Trouble is sane places are so rare that no one ever leaves them... so no vacancies, and sane places don't do "growth" like insane places, so very few new posts!
This is so true! There's no perfect job. There's no job where dysfunction doesn't exist. I've really gotten better at overlooking imperfections.

However, I haven't done a very good job holding them accountable, and I think that was to their detriment. I used to be terrible at that. Holding people accountable and being negative are two different things. People need accountability.
One of the things that is useful is the "Life Positions" (aka Ernst's "OK Corral") in it's simplest form this says that the place to be is to feel that "I'm OK, You're OK" even when confronted by illogical behaviour..... be cause there are reasons for the odd behaviour that make some kind of sense in the world of the person doing them.
What you're describing is contentment, and something I'm so blessed to have. I can't lose sight of the fact that most of my job experiences have been nightmares, oozing with agony.

I like my job. I'm in a position that matches my skills and interests, and that's why I've been able to hang on for so long. I wouldn't want to leave.