View Full Version : Natural Medicine (Supplements)


fathom6
08-04-17, 01:54 AM
I am not fond of medication therapy, and plus seeing Psychiatrists is not easy, these dopamine meds have a taboo (schedule B drugs), pharmacists view you as some addict due to government controls and what not. I was wondering can we instead take like dopamine pre-cursors (such as L-Tyrosine, L-Dopa) from a health food store?. It would be a lot natural with less side effects. I feel scared by the thought of long-term vyvanse use. There are some articles that caution (of dopamine receptor depletion) against its long term usage

sarahsweets
08-04-17, 06:21 AM
What articles are you talking about? Can you share some here so I can read them?

Little Missy
08-04-17, 09:42 AM
I would be more concerned about taking Neurontin (gabapentin) than any amphetamine.

But, to each his own.

aeon
08-04-17, 10:10 AM
I was wondering can we instead take like dopamine pre-cursors (such as L-Tyrosine, L-Dopa) from a health food store?

You can, sure.

Let us all know how that works out for you.

Didnít for me. Gimme my Dex. :yes:


Cheers,
Ian

Lunacie
08-04-17, 11:25 AM
I am not fond of medication therapy, and plus seeing Psychiatrists is not easy, these dopamine meds have a taboo (schedule B drugs), pharmacists view you as some addict due to government controls and what not. I was wondering can we instead take like dopamine pre-cursors (such as L-Tyrosine, L-Dopa) from a health food store?. It would be a lot natural with less side effects. I feel scared by the thought of long-term vyvanse use. There are some articles that caution (of dopamine receptor depletion) against its long term usage

Some pharmacists give you the fish eye, some don't. They don't all do that.

Some of the studies that have been done on dopamine depletion were looking
at abuse dosages. Have you seen studies that show prescription-level doses
causing dopamine depletion?

If you weigh the benefits of personal use of prescribed stimulants versus the
impairment of untreated adhd and decide the risks are too great, you can try
supplements like Omega 3, meditation.

If you use the search function in the bar above, you can find some posts
about using L-Tyrosine.

Emre22
08-04-17, 12:57 PM
There are types of dopamine receptors

A pure dopamine cure wouldnt be as beneficial as ADHD medications

Otherwise we could be treated with parkinson medicines ;) but they do not work as good as ADHD medicines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_receptor

it isnt that simple as, "okay lets increase dopamine concentration and i will be ok"

For example , selegiline is a parkinson medicine but it's metobolites are amphetamine and methamphetamine salts. But it doesnt have strong effect as ADHD medicine

Using L-Dopa,L-Tyro etc. would help you to balance your dopamine levels but if you need more than balance they won't help you. Even if you take tons of L-Dopa,L-Tyro etc. your neurons will use amount that u need
Otherwise we could all become high of them by taking them over theuropathic doses

sarahsweets
08-05-17, 07:51 AM
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145739

This was a few years ago but its my story.

someothertime
08-05-17, 08:59 AM
There are a few commonly known supplements are of benefit, for most... nowhere near that of medication.

I highlight the bodies ability to generate, release and regulate hormones. Nothing gets a bodies functions ticking like exercise ( yes, a half decent diet and/or a multi to be safe is a good idea ).

When it comes to precursor supplements et. al. My OPINION.... is that even if out of some miraculous gut -> blood -> brain synergy, one achieves benefit, our bodily systems would rebel, confuse and harmfully adjust.

Think of it like trying to add some volts somewhere on a motherboard.

So yeah, exercise is the key to unlocking and regulating precursors that ALREADY EXIST on our bodies.

Unmanagable
08-05-17, 10:33 AM
Getting your body and all of its systems in the healthiest shape possible via a healthy consumption lifestyle and exercise is always a good idea and a great benefit to your overall well-being. Which in turn also makes it much easier for proper absorption of any supplements you may need and any prescription drugs you may have to take along the way.

I eventually learned my various systems don't jive well with many prescription meds, or many OTC ones, either, so I no longer take them. I also don't take the things you mentioned. I do supplement with a spray that contains B12, D3, and DHA since I choose to eat a whole foods plant-based vegan diet.

I also use many other methods for symptom management that include but aren't limited to adhd issues in my world. Sound therapies, massage therapy, breathing techniques, mindfulness practices, acupuncture, iridology, herbal tinctures, flower essences, NeurOptimal brand neurofeedback, etc., etc.

Regardless of what you choose to take, I wish you well. I've learned it takes a village.

fathom6
08-05-17, 02:14 PM
FOLKS, THIS IS SO HELPFUL. I cannot begin to say thanks to all these posts, this forum is a gemstone for asking questions and hearing answers relevant to "you".

I personally agree with you all. But I also have that "skeptic me" that I hide in my self. While true that abuse of anything can have detrimental effects and same with amphetamines. However, there are some troublesome articles, and I'll just put one research forward for your review:

Amphetamine Treatment Similar to That Used in the Treatment of Adult Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Damages Dopaminergic Nerve Endings in the Striatum of Adult Nonhuman Primates
Link: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full

Look forward to hear your thoughts.

Lunacie
08-05-17, 07:11 PM
FOLKS, THIS IS SO HELPFUL. I cannot begin to say thanks to all these posts, this forum is a gemstone for asking questions and hearing answers relevant to "you".

I personally agree with you all. But I also have that "skeptic me" that I hide in my self. While true that abuse of anything can have detrimental effects and same with amphetamines. However, there are some troublesome articles, and I'll just put one research forward for your review:

Amphetamine Treatment Similar to That Used in the Treatment of Adult Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Damages Dopaminergic Nerve Endings in the Striatum of Adult Nonhuman Primates
Link: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full

Look forward to hear your thoughts.

In terms of mental disorder research, that article is pretty old. Do you know
of any more recent research that supports those conclusions?

fathom6
08-05-17, 08:48 PM
amphetamines.com effects potential-consequences-of-long-term-amphetamine-use (https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=http%253A//amphetamines.com/effects/potential-consequences-of-long-term-amphetamine-use/)
Amphetamines forces cell sites to release large amounts of dopamine and norepinephrine, both essential neurotransmitter chemicals. Long term amphetamine use overworks these cells to the point where actual structural damage starts to develop.
This damage works to weaken cells making them unable to produce neurotransmitter materials as normal. Before long, cell sites can no longer produce needed chemical amounts in the absence of the drug.
Physical dependency creates considerable chemical imbalances in the brain. These imbalances leave the brain unable to regulate bodily system in a normal fashion.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091021172655.htm
The findings reveal some of the potential long-term consequences of amphetamine abuse by adolescents and also may be relevant to those taking amphetamines for therapeutic purposes, such as for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder

https://www.printfriendly.com/print?source=homepage&url_s=uGGCF_%7E_PdN_%7E_PcS_%7E_PcSJJJmxpymnpmHx_% 7E_PcSvBCCA_%7E_PcSArJF_%7E_PcSErpBEqF_%7E_PcScabc _%7E_PcSsro_%7E_PcSOEnvAF-nAq-NQUQ-zrqvpnGvBAmnFCK
New research reveals how the brain appears to adapt to compensate for the effects of long-term ADHD medication, suggesting why ADHD medication is more effective short-term than it is long-term. The findings suggest that, when treated with stimulants, the brain adapts to compensate for the high levels of dopamine by building up more DATs to eliminate the abnormally high levels of dopamine. The findings therefore show that increased DAT levels in ADHD is a consequence of long-term medication rather than the disorder itself.

I too be honest, HOPE the above research/articles are all wrong. Vyvanse has CHANGED my life. I am probably one of most bullied people out, and while despite all, I have consistently held on being an optimist, but with Vyvanse, for the first time I "actually" see hope for me, articulating myself, speaking up for myself and others.

Lunacie
08-05-17, 11:36 PM
For the first link above, I don't see any references to any studies. Just plain old
scare-mongering. There's a lot of that on the internet.

The second link sources a study where rats were given either a very high dose
of amphetamines, or simulated "binging on" meds, basically drug abuse. No
one will argue that abuse of these meds causes problems.

Look for youtube videos by Dr. Russell Barkley to learn what statistics show are
the result of having untreated adhd. He also explains how the medications work.
Or read any of the books by Dr. Edward Hallowell. He takes an unbiased look at
both medicating and not medicating this condition.

sarahsweets
08-06-17, 06:46 AM
FOLKS, THIS IS SO HELPFUL. I cannot begin to say thanks to all these posts, this forum is a gemstone for asking questions and hearing answers relevant to "you".

I personally agree with you all. But I also have that "skeptic me" that I hide in my self. While true that abuse of anything can have detrimental effects and same with amphetamines. However, there are some troublesome articles, and I'll just put one research forward for your review:

Amphetamine Treatment Similar to That Used in the Treatment of Adult Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Damages Dopaminergic Nerve Endings in the Striatum of Adult Nonhuman Primates
Link: http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.full

Look forward to hear your thoughts.

Although the present preclinical observations may have clinical implications, it would be premature to extrapolate them to humans receiving amphetamine treatment for ADHD for several reasons. First, the dopaminergic neurotoxicity may only occur in the context of doses of amphetamine that result in plasma concentrations comparable with those found in these experiments; lower dosage regimens that engender lower plasma amphetamine concentrations may not be associated with toxic effects on central dopaminergic neurons. Second, the mechanisms of amphetamine-induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity are not known, and theoretically, could be operant in nonhuman primates (and rodents) but not in humans. Third, aspects of amphetamine metabolism in nonhuman primates may differ from those in humans, and such differences could potentially result in neurotoxicity in nonhuman primates but not in humans. Fourth, the relative sensitivity of brain dopaminergic neurons to amphetamine toxicity in nonhuman primates and humans is unknown. Fifth, it is possible that the effects observed in normal primates with amphetamine may not be observed in ADHD patients because such patients presumably have abnormal neurotransmitter function, and such abnormalities may influence the expression of amphetamine neurotoxicity. Finally, it is important to note that amphetamine neurotoxicity data from the present studies were obtained in adult nonhuman primates; as such, although they may have implications for adults receiving amphetamine for the treatment of ADHD, their implications for children are less clear, because studies assessing the influence of age on the ontogeny of amphetamine neurotoxicity suggest younger animals are less susceptible to the neurotoxic effects of amphetamine (Cappon et al., 1997; Miller et al., 2000). Future studies in young adolescent primates are needed.

After weeding through jargon I had to reallty concentrate on, this is an important piece of the study results.
The study goes on to theorize that more controlled long term studies need to be done on humans but thats the rub. Its so hard to do a legitimate study consistently over time by following children into teen and adult years to thoroughly get data on the long term potential findings on ampjhetamine treatment.

Lunacie
08-06-17, 11:20 AM
Just want to point out that even aspirin and tylenol have some unhappy long-
term effects on kidneys and such. Everything we eat or drink affects us in some
way. Especially when abused or taken to an extreme.