Hi - I'm curious about something - I have ADHD and my 10 year old daughter does also and in my lifetime, I have never been witness to a more self centered, give-me, buy-it for me, do for me, than my daughter and if it is refused, which I will do because, for example, I don't have an extra $1,000 for a trampeline, my daughter will act as if I'm the most mean person and she will get into a 'mood', pout and not talk to me - now I think this is a function, partly of how my wife treats her and, just how my daughter is biologically, having nothing to do with ADHD - yes? Or is part of this emotion, this 'moodiness', her ADHD or a bit of both? - sometimes i feel like I'm ok here as long I fulfill that 'ATM machine' role.
Bruce

Ok, feel free not to answer, but here are a few questions...

are you and your wife divorced?

is your wife a give-me person too? (even if not as bad?)

is your daughter on meds?

has she been tested for anything besides ADHD?

I work in a school and these are a few major things that can lead to these types of behaviors (aka: teachers or other adults thinking that a child is "spoiled" even though they aren't) in school-age children.
--Pigeon

ps This question might be better answered in the Parents of Children with AD/HD section???

I agree with you Pigeon & am going to move it to the proper section

a couple more questions to add to pigeon's list:

Does your wife give in to her (when your daughter asks for things) more than you?

Do you or your wife give in to her (and buy her what she wants or negotiate) during or after her not-so-wonderful behaviors?

Bruce,

All kids have these moments, and yes certain circumstances can bring out the bad behavior, but I see this all too often.

My brother and I have no children, and my best friend has 2 boys, (21 and 11) and we all three consider this behavior to be "spoiled". We all see it in conjunction with the "I must be my child's friend" version of child rearing. My friend even recognizes it in her own children occasionally because she feels pressured by today's culture to conform at times.

My sisters' kids were NIGHTMARES when they were younger because of it and her middle son (ADHD/LD's) still has excessive problems that would be much better served with more structure in his life.

My ADD never became a "problem" when I was younger, because for some reason I didn't object to doing 4-6 hours of homework every single night of first, second and third grade and, I was raised in what I believe to be a perfect household for a ADD kid. Clean and organized with clearly defined rules. (HOWEVER, my transition into adulthood could have been much easier had I Been diagnosed.)

All children need rules,regulations and clearly defined limits and ADD/ADHD kids need these things even more. Re-read the books, its in all of them. Don't be afraid to parent.

The rest of us REALLY appreciate well behaved children:D !!!

How is selfishness or 'self-centredness' a trait of ADHD/ADD?

-Emma

How is selfishness or 'self-centredness' a trait of ADHD/ADD?

-Emma

Good question with no answer honestly.

My daughter is ADD/ODD and carries many of the same traits. I think it has more to do with very little limits as a small child and she hardly ever heard the word NO. That is her father's and my fault and we are doing out best to rectify it as a team which means staying consistant and not giving in. :rolleyes: Easier said then done.

I think my daughter's mind if very good at convincing her that she is not in the wrong but rather her parents are abusive and mean to her. The poor, poor victim and she plays it well. We've just learned to accept it for the performance it is and move on. In time she follows our lead.

Good luck Bruce selfishness is a hard trait to break.

Hi - ok, I have the answer to this - I didn't know if being 'self-centered' was a trait of ADHD in children, but I now see it is not, and I understand the consensus of opinion here.
Bruce

And let's not forget puberty.
Adolescent = self-centered = normal child development. :faint:

And let's not forget puberty.
Adolescent = self-centered = normal child development. :faint:
Ah yes, good point as always Imnapl, *kiss*your*brain*, lol

Pigeon

In this household we have noticed that Dad is the one to be stricter, say no more often, but is still loved (the kids don't hate him, even though they said so at the time).

I tend to be the one who caves, because I am ADD, unsure of what to do, often, and my (ADD) daughter can wear me down.....

The good news is, she has outgrown the tendency to be too self-centered. As she gets older she is learning to be "nicer".

She now understands that she can't have everything she wants when she wants it. Sometimes because of money, sometimes because her father and I agree that whatever she wants is not a good idea, as we see it.

I would say, just hang in there, and make your daughter understand that you love her and her not getting her way is really not the end of the world.

Glad your daughter grew out of it, pembroke. Unfortunately, my sister never did :eek: I hate to put a damper on this post, but picture this.... she is 17 and my father is the only one who puts his foot down to her. But when daddy's gone, she will throw a tantrum to get what she wants.... yup a 17yr old throwing a temper tantrum.

She learned that the harder you push the more mommy will give in because mommy gets worn out and doesn't want to hear it.... plus she learned those ever famous words that really hurt my mom "You are ruining my life...... You don't love me...... How could you do that!!!!" stoping around, slamming doors, the whole nine yards. And my mom wonders why she opted not to move out to a dorm for college???? She gets everything she wants right here :rolleyes: lol,

I'm moving out asap, but anyway, I'm happy for those of you who's daughters DID grow out of this or you ARE strong enough to "nip it in the butt" soon enough. Like I said I hate putting a down-ner here, but I guess it's more like a fair warning/personal experience of what happens if you start to give-in "just this once".....

Pigeon

Bruce, I'm jumping in late, and other people may disagree with me, but ...

I think those traits can most definitely be a manifestation of ADHD ... part of it is the immediate gratification, not able to be patient, which is ADHD. Your daughter may be more extreme than others, but I've seen that trait in my own kids as well as my husband. Hubby wants something, he wants it now and there's no time to shop around for the best price. Has to be NOW! He has other traits as an adult that would be labeled selfishness, but I honestly don't think he's aware of it and it's not his intent. If I point it out to him, he goes, "Oh, uh, gee, I didn't realize that." When he has needs, they have to be met.

Does that make sense?

Most of the time a kid's behavior is tied into the payoff he/she gets.
On the other hand an Add kid has a hard time with self control.

I guess my point is, if you know in your heart her brattiness has been rewarded in the past, you have one problem, There is a great workshop/book called Becoming a Love and Logic Parent, that deals with logical consequences for bad behavior, some of the ideas are pretty funny, and the kid's get it immediately.

On the other hand if she is in a cycle of repeating a bad behavior (is this hitting home for any of you adults?) that gets her nowhere and destroys relationships by pushing people away, and she can’t seem to get past it and break the cycle, for her sake and yours I’d get her some real help so she can move into adulthood without that baggage.

Ok, I'll admit it- I am 30 years old and I *still* can feel like your daughter acts from time to time. My famous line when I was about two was "But I need it" and I hoped to grow out of it and I never did- call it spoiled, call it selfish, but that's how it is. That's how my ADD makes me a PIA.

I, of course, learned not to tantrum about it, (because my parents would quite literally kick my rear) but the feeling behind it never went away. I came from a strict military family, I doubt it has anything to do with my rearing. It is my impulsivity at it's worst and my goals in medication management of my ADD are centered around trying to mitigate that impulsivity because as an adult it has translated into making poor financial choices.

My only advice is to learn to stand firm and unapologetic. My husband tried to appease me in the early days of our marriage and it nearly drove us broke.

There is no way to make a person like this happy- what I would do is say "That trampoline is a lot of money, let's think about it for a while" and put it into a context that she can understand. "That is how much money it costs to buy a house in one month. I could buy your school clothes three times over for that cost, let's think about it and discuss it tomorrow. It will still be here then. " And make it look like you're really thinking about it, because it is the rejecting it out of hand that makes me personally furious and after a day or two of reflection I invariably decide I'd like something else better.

Or, better yet, tell her that she can have it if she saves the money for it. That places the pressure on her- it isn't mean daddy who won't let her have it, it is her own fault if she can't do it.

And- nobody wants to be miserable like that. I try to respect what my kids think and want even if it doesn't make sense to me, because I remember all too clearly how it feels to be like that. It is miserable. That doesn't mean that I cave in to them, I just make it their problem, not mine. Good luck!

I think those traits can most definitely be a manifestation of ADHD ... part of it is the immediate gratification, not able to be patient, which is ADHD.
Does that make sense?

I see ADHD everyday in the school. There is a group of self centered ADHD kids and there seems to be just as many girls with this trait as boys. This is unusal because there are way more boys with adhd then girls. This is a subjective observation so take it with a pinch of salt. I do agree with chitchat and think that the observed behaviour is more a manifestation of genetics then enviornment. It's easy to get angry with kids like this but it's probably better to look at what works best for these kids and deliver. You'll simply have to take your "lumps" and pick your battles. They do want very much to be loved although often they don't show it. Again these are subjective observations based on my experiences at school and at home with my daughter.

working in the schools I see plenty of ADHD kids, I think the difference between the ones who are preceived as "spoiled" is about the parenting. IMO ADHD makes the instant gratification thing a hard thing for them to overcome, you are all right. Just last school year though we had the most hyper ADHD kid I have ever seen but he was able to wait (figety, but wait) for what he wanted. This I noticed was a direct connection to the parenting he recieved... I am not a parent, yet, but when I choose to have children I hope that I will have all the wisdom of all of you combined, lol.... you all are very smart parents. :D I only recieve my knowledge through observing the children in school, and the interactions with the parents (which sometimes are non-existant unfortunately). And every child is different so you must find that happy medium between giving in and standing firm, but once you find it, I've seen many ADHD children who know how to control their tantrum urges (which is a huge accomplishment concidering I work with 4-6yr olds)

It seems, I hope, that each generation is getting more informed and doing things a little bit better. But I wonder, too, in generations past how things just repeated themselves because no one understood what was going on. In my husband's case, I would guess that both of his parents are ADHD, but we're talking depression era folks who had no support or recognition of what was going on. So when they had kids, they tried to satisfy every want and desire that their child had. I think because a) they had those same impulses themselves and b) they wanted to do better for their kids and give them more than they had as a poor kid growing up in the depression. So they emotionally and genetically created my hubby who is trying his hardest to do the same with our kids! That's where I come in as the meanie. "Well, they want sugary cereal, and I like to give them what they want." "But it's not good for them, they should have something else instead." "Well, it's not going to kill them and it makes them happy." or "I know I just went to the store for milk, but they had this stuffed animal display and the kids really wanted one." "But their rooms are so full they can barely get to the door." "They were only $5." yadda yadda yadda ...

Hopefully we can break the chain -- or at least weaken it! -- with our kids.

And I may have missed this, but is your wife ADHD, Bruce? That might sort of explain her giving in to your daughter?

I totally agree about the Love & Logic book. It's awesome. I'm almost finished with it and am going to go back through and re-read my highlights so that the tactics are memorized in my head. Then my kids better look out! A new age is dawning. :)

Don't forget back in the Depression era ya got a good whumping if ya didn't do as you were told. "Spare the rod and spoil the child". There is nothing that will focus your attention better then pain or fear. This is not to say that beatings are the way to treat kids with adhd because that sort of logic can all go horribly wrong and did in the school systems and insitutions of the time. I'm simply saying that you can't compare apple and oranges.

Thing is, no matter what sort of parenting style you had, these children are difficult to raise as is borne out by statistics.....although a good parenting style would increase the chance for a positive outcome.

I totally agree about the Love & Logic book. It's awesome. I'm almost finished with it and am going to go back through and re-read my highlights so that the tactics are memorized in my head. Then my kids better look out! A new age is dawning. :)[/QUOTE]

The women who teaches Love and Logic parenting classes around here also did a mini session dealing with ADD kids (not L& L related) when I asked her about applying L&L to my ADD son she said to be very careful, very often using these tactics w/an ADD child will not be fair, and sometimes even cruel.
Our job with these kids is to give them the tools and help them develop the strategies to get through life. And frustrating as it may be we have to cut them more slack and reduce our expectation for certain things
In my opinion Love and Logic comes into play when you know the kids know better, they are pushing it (and you) they just need a little reality to really "get it"
Sometimes that applies to my son, but often he really is doing his best, he just can't connect the dots and get it together

Ok, I just want to put my two cents in here. I have 3 girls and all of them suffer from the gimme-gimme-gimme disease. They also believe that emotional blackmail is the answer whenever faced with the big bad NO word. For example, today we just dropped into Toys-r-Us to get out of the heat and window shop. When I refused to buy them something my youngest (non-ADD) told me that she would cry until I bought her something and that she hated me to a million pieces. My oldest (VERY ADD) rooted herself to the spot and decided that she wouldn't leave the store until I bought something or dragged her out of there. Fortunately, the middle one just settled on looking dejected. I handled the situation like this, first I told the baby that she would not continue to cry because it was annoying and wasn't going to get her what she wanted. Then, I took the baby & middle one by the hands and we started walking out the store. In fact, we got to the parking lot before my oldest came hauling taters after us. When she caught up she asked me if I was really going to leave her. Of course I wasn't but I didn't tell her that, I said yes that I would leave her because I was just flat out tired of the DRAMA! So here is my position on the selfishness/self-centered thing. Our kids are being raised in a materialistic world. Where their every need and want is exploited through mass marketing and media. They use manipulation and emotional blackmail because if we don't recognize it and allow them to wear us down with then it obvioiusly works for them and they have no motivation to stop. Ok, this is my logical position. The soft side of me gives in when I can or I compromise or I even bribe. The whining, crying, and yelling do wear me down, especially with my husband in Iraq leaving me to be a single parent. I know it isn't good to give in, on the other hand I also know that just because my kid gets some totally useless toy that day doesn't make her selfish. Even my very ADHD kid is willing to give of herself, share with others & is open to loving easily and holds friendship in the highest regard. So she wants everything in site, what kid doesn't? Does that also mean that my kids get everything -- NO. I just couldn't afford that. So, in a nutshell, kids do act like this - they are being conditioned by television and movies, friends and family. Don't worry so much over it. Be as consistent as possible and ignore the worst of it. This too shall pass.

:p Stacey :p
Proud Wife & Mother
The perfect brand for you chickey-baby, keep up the awesome job!!!!



your story could have been plucked out of "Parenting 101 Monthy" lol.... I'll be calling you up in 10 years when I have kids haha :D seriously, well said...
Pigeon

OK we all know I'm killing myself over here looking for a job, signing up for unemployment, registering for school and financial aid not to mention my housework, kids and husband all need and want my attention.

Well you know what? I've had it!!! I have snapped!!!! This well of energy has run out take your drama to someone else.

I had an interview yesterday and my daughter knew this but yet she still decided to take off to a friends house (one I did not even know about) and not tell me where she was going. She wanted to play and by gosh she was gonna play.

My son (12) does not sleep at night but instead insists on staying awake or faking until I finally fall asleep of exhaustion. So, he's up all night long making concoctions with our ketchup and other condiments.

The baby is sick with an ear drum that is about to burst, crying, irritable, demanding.

My husband is all 3 lately rolled into one. :faint:

After being unable to find Lexi for two hours I had to call and cancel my interview. I walked for two hours all over town hauling a screaming baby in a wagon looking for that child while I listened to my eldest complain about how everything was "all about you mom" :mad: thats right its all about me, I need a job to pay bills and buy your guys school clothes and fix your teeth, buy your contacts, get your football shoes, pay your dad's speeding ticket, get Lexi a new pair of glasses and the sandals she wants, the baby needs diapers and a new pair of tennis shoes was going thru my mind finally I turned around and screamed it all at him and said "Thank God I'm a greedy, selfish *****!!!!"

When my husband got home he was mad because I hadn't made it to the job interview and was mad because I hadn't done this and hadn't done that.

I walked. Went and stayed at my mother's house for two hours...that is all it took for them all to come running apologizing that they can't live without me. Turns out they were hungry but at least they know I do have some skills.

My daughter is grounded for 2 weeks; she cannot even leave the house without her father or I. She is doing every dastardly deed I can think of, my windows are shiny, she has helped her dad clean out the garage, etc, etc. She will never forget to tell me where she is going again.

My son was informed that he could get a job if he wants anything other then a necessity from now on. I'm sick of buying his lizards and bugs and fish. If he wants it he can bust tables at the cafe for two hours a day let him figure out the worth of money.

The baby-well come on he's 1. :rolleyes:

And Douglas has been informed that he will inforce all groundings when I go back to work and he will carry his weight in the house and be stricter instead of giving in to Miss Drama's screaming fits and Koda's badgering.

You want money-EARN IT
You want my respect-EARN IT
You want my empathy/sympathy-SHOW SOME

Cause I'm done.






















for today anyways. lol

Wow, Cherity. Sorry to hear that you had such a bad day, and couldn't make it to your interview.

(((HUGS)))

Ah turned out rather lucky.

My perspective employer has two autistic children so she said she understands.

You have to take the crappy days to appreciate the good ones I suppose.

Anyways, new interview today well actually four of them.
Have most the money issues worked out.
Am done signing up for unemployment.
Will finish school papers and financial aid at my sisters tonight in the quiet.
Baby seems a little less cranky today and is playing quietly.
Husband has agreed to follow along instead of giving in.

Time will tell.

I hope today, is a better day for you. Good luck with your interviews.

Bruce - I'm right there with you. I am the parent of a 10 year old (going on 11) girl with ADHD and ODD who an outsider might judge was a princess judging from what she expects of the world. In terms of nature versus nurture, I'm not going to say none of this is my fault - she's an only child and got more attention as a young child than she might have if she'd had siblings - but I feel very strongly that a good chunk of it must come from the frustration levels she deals with from her ODD. From the way she acts, you'd think we regularly give her everything she wants - but in fact we set limits (lots), she has jobs around the house, and is expected to use her allowance to buy things rather than have us just get it for her. What is truly infuriating to me is how self-righteous she acts when I ask her to do something for herself that she is completely capable of doing and she acts like I'm being abusive.

The other night, I was cooking well into the evening, to get something ready for work the next day. My daughter, lounging on the chair watching TV asked me to get her some toast with peanut butter. I politely told her I was busy and asked her to get it herself. She started slamming doors, slamming the toaster down, being snide and nasty ("THANKS MOM! You're SOOO NICE!"), and then, getting frustrated with the "spreading" part, ended up throwing the whole thing in the garbage.

I was the type of child who wanted to impress adults with how much I was able to do on my own. I see NONE of this in my daughter. If she can get someone else to do it for her, she does. It drives me to despair.

We do continue to set limits, but I can tell you it gets difficult to deal with the abuse that gets heaped upon us when we do. There is, in fact, nothing that puts me more on the edge of despair than re-living these interactions and thinking "how can I deal with this?" On a daily basis I try to model appropriate behavior, I attempt to communicate in a respectful way, I set limits and expectations and when we have blow-ups like these it just makes me feel like I'm doing everything wrong.

Sigh.

NF, sorrry to get off topic, but who's the hot guy dancing on your avatar?

NF, sorrry to get off topic, but who's the hot guy dancing on your avatar?

He's off a movie and for the life of me I cannot remember the whole title...Dynamite something or something Dynamite. lol who knows it just cracks me up it was the best part of the whole movie.

Amy,

That could have been a page written out of my own life. My daughter (9) is ODD as well as ADD/innatentive.

Hugs to ya,
Cherity

cher,

wow, sorry to hear about the tough day. But I do think you handled it quite well....
I had a bad interview came home and basically stopped functioning for a whole day... if I was in your situation I prob would have dropped the kids off at my mothers and taken off!!! :eek: you are truly a wonderful miraculous woman and don't ever forget it!!! :)

Tough days only show us how well we are able to shine...
Pigeon

Hang in there Amy. Sounds like you are a great parent. ODD + ADHD is a very difficult combo and she will need your help and love although it may take her 20 years to thank you.

I am not a parent, but sometimes I feel like one, living with a younger sister who treats me the same way you describe your daughter treating you... I can't imagine how hard it must be to deal with this everyday.... most children go through it in "normal stages" lol...

The other night, I was cooking well into the evening, to get something ready for work the next day. My daughter, lounging on the chair watching TV asked me to get her some toast with peanut butter. I politely told her I was busy and asked her to get it herself. She started slamming doors, slamming the toaster down, being snide and nasty ("THANKS MOM! You're SOOO NICE!"), and then, getting frustrated with the "spreading" part, ended up throwing the whole thing in the garbage.
This is soooo my sister, and not to dissapoint you, but she's 17 and still acts this way even toward anyone. I don't understand it. Luckily (or not for the guys :eyeroll: ) she seems to find boyfrineds who "tend to her every wim and tickle her fancy on demand"... I don't understand though, I was like you...

I was the type of child who wanted to impress adults with how much I was able to do on my own.

We do continue to set limits, but I can tell you it gets difficult to deal with the abuse that gets heaped upon us when we do. There is, in fact, nothing that puts me more on the edge of despair than re-living these interactions and thinking "how can I deal with this?" On a daily basis I try to model appropriate behavior, I attempt to communicate in a respectful way, I set limits and expectations and when we have blow-ups like these it just makes me feel like I'm doing everything wrong.
I'd like to give you words of encouragement, but I can give you words of kindness :) I live with a younger sister who is exactly like what you describe in this para... even the fact that you use the word "abuse" makes it more connectable to me, because I know that's exactly how it feels... like she is tearing out your very soul... have you tried mother-daugheter counsling??? I truly think it would have helped my sister release some built up anger and help with some of these issues

My heart goes out to you,
Pigeon

I don't really have problems with my kids getting and doing things for themselves. They all have always been fairly independent in getting themselves drinks and food. They find their own clothes, with the exception of school mornings when I lay out stuff so they won't look like circus rejects. I actually think my problems with them, other than the gimme/I want stuff, may be that they think they are little grown-ups. My husband and I have always encouraged them to do the things that they could handle - for example, they all have been ordering their own meals in restaurants since they could talk. Good luck to all of you who have problems with this with your kids. I know it's tough.

A funny side note: When my daughter was 2 she spoke extremely well. She was and is also quite petite, so at that time she only looked about a year old. I remember carrying her into a McDonald's in Germany and she ordered her entire meal in German all by herself. The young lady behind the counter was so shocked, I swear, her mouth dropped right open!

My son is 8 and I am trying to give up the habit of doing everything for him. (Somehow he grew up from a little boy to a boy, and I did not notice)
To keep it from being confrontational, when he asks me to do something I know he can do, I just ask him in all seriousness to trade jobs, "O.K. come on over here and finish chopping these vegetables, watering the plants, writing an e-mail (whatever I am in the middle of) and I will make you a sandwich. I keep it going and start giving all sorts of details and instructions involved in taking over my task….
Guess what? He gets it!

I have two kids whom will clean up but only if its right in there face and i say do it so i started chore charts and until those chores are done they do not do a thing.I had to do this so they would learn some responsibilites.;)

Dancing guy is Napoleon Dynamite. Love that movie.

Amy, I hear what you're saying about when you were a kid wanting to impress and prove yourself. I went through this when raising my step-daughter 10 years ago -- ADHD, ODD. I remember once when she was about 12 having a really nice, heart to heart talk with her. No yelling, or badgering or anything. It stemmed from poor school performance and I remember saying, "I can understand that you don't want to do good in school because of me and Dad. I mean, I know that it doesn't matter to you what we think. And I can understand that you don't care if you please your teacher. But isn't there anything inside of you that makes you want to do the best that you can do for YOURSELF? Doesn't it make you feel good when you perform well?" And she said, "no."

That was a total turning point for me. I realized that I couldn't use anything from my own childhood when trying to parent her. I know that doesn't help you any. It was just an amazing revelation for me. And I don't think this particular thing is exclusively ADHD kids, I think it indescriminately hits the whole generation who have been born in the last 20-30 years. They've had very easy lives, with no winning or losing in sports or contests and there's always an exception to the rule to get them out of trouble. (At the time of step-daughter teenage drama, we were doing our best to discipline/structure/have consequences at home, but she was repeatedly given a break by teachers and employers when she should've failed or been fired ... but I digress.) It's a group of kids where everything has either come easy for them, or the consequences of failing haven't been so bad that it matters. I mean think of the dot.com craze, for chrissakes. Here were kids straight out of college with VP titles and six-figure incomes! Where does learning from your mistakes, paying your dues, etc. come into play?

And Cherity -- OMG! How awesome that as the ADD parent, you are the backbone who holds it all together. An amazing feat. And for anyone, having a baby and an adolescent at once is no easy task. I'm glad they came begging your forgiveness! Hope they remember it for awhile and appreciate you more!

And Cherity -- OMG! How awesome that as the ADD parent, you are the backbone who holds it all together. An amazing feat. And for anyone, having a baby and an adolescent at once is no easy task. I'm glad they came begging your forgiveness! Hope they remember it for awhile and appreciate you more!

As a veteran in "Domestic Bliss 101" I've learned to kiss the bad days away at the end of the day and look forward to a fresh start in the morning (that is were having ADHD is an asset ;) ).

Here is the really sad and confusing part. Koda and Lexi are only two years apart and I think I managed better when they were small then I do now with Garrett. I forget things wipies, once forgot his bottle, etc, etc :rolleyes: I just don't get it.

Ok, so this may very well be a combination of factors causing this type of behavior = 'immediate gratification need of ADHD, which I didn't 'see' (which can be a problem with me too, only not with material things), vs being 'self - centered' - ok, I will try some of the strategic suggestions in dealing with this, assuming I can remember them when it happens + I don't get in my own way with my own brain thinking - not sure if I have the social skills to do this correctly, on a consistent basis, but I will try.
Bruce

I have to remember to stop and think before I reply to my daughter almost anything I say can turn around and bite me in the butt. Best advice...STOP,THINK,THEN REPLY and remember honesty is important if you don't know the answer to a question don't try and BS your way out of it admit you do not know.

I have to remember to stop and think before I reply to my daughter almost anything I say can turn around and bite me in the butt. Best advice...STOP,THINK,THEN REPLY and remember honesty is important if you don't know the answer to a question don't try and BS your way out of it admit you do not know.
Ah, good advice because even the youngest of kids will catch you in a BS and take you for all you've got!!!

Ah, good advice because even the youngest of kids will catch you in a BS and take you for all you've got!!!
Parents should say what they mean, mean what they say and do what they said they would do.
Barbara Coloroso

Ha ha ha! I keep telling my daughter she should be a lawyer when she grows up, because despite the number of things she tells me she's NOT capable of doing, she is CERTAINLY capable of remembering every last word I've ever said and using it to her best advantage. She can be deadly with the spoken word!

I liked what an earlier post said about letting everything go when you go to sleep at night and wake up the next morning. That is how I try to cope as well. Often, I find I like my daughter again in the morning. Sometimes, alas, the hurt from the night before carries over into the next day and it takes a little longer for me to recover.

Last night, after an hour of awful interactions, lying in bed with Patty pouting in the next room, I felt awful. She had retorted to every conversation I tried to start in snide, nasty, sarcastic, angry tones. I sat down, took a deep breath, and tried again. I said "Patty - I'm not sure what to do. I want to have a pleasant conversation, but you keep getting angry at everything I say. Tell me what I can say to start a good conversation." She replies that I can say "Patty, you're a wonderful daughter. Can I help you with that?" (She was working on cleaning up her room). Clearly, she's thinking that I am continually sending negative messages to her and she needs to hear something positive.

OK. I can do this. Despite the fact that she's done NOTHING that evening that would count as "wonderful", I take a deep breath. I love this child. I want to do whatever I can to get through to her and get past this stuff. I said quietly and sincerely "Patty, you're a wonderful daughter. Can I help you with that?" I go into her room, and start helping her to clean up.

No reply. I said gently "Patty, you said we could have a pleasant conversation if I started off this way." She replies, in the same sarcastic tone "Like you really meant it."

Zonk. Sometimes, there really is no way to win.

Today is a new day. I have had no unpleasant interactions with the 10 year old who says she cannot spread peanut butter, or who expects me to stay up at least 1/2 hour after she finally decides to go to bed, because that's the only way she's comfortable enough to fall asleep. I am hopeful that tonight, because she is having a friend stay over, she will neither heap vitriolic verbal abuse upon me nor end up sleeping in my bed or on my floor. I am REALLY hopeful that this is not just the beginning of a long, drawn out, ADHD-ODD-exacerbated puberty where she is just impossible to be with. Still, one who knows her and knows me might forgive me for occasionally thinking, with a sigh "only 8 more years until she leaves home."

That sounds a lot like my daughter and the girls I see at school. It's like they know exactly what to say and do to p1ss you off to the 10th degree. :faint: Sometimes they are aware of what they are doing and sometimes not but for sure they never considering your feelings nor are they looking at future consequences of poor attitude on personal relationships. They don't think, their mouth is on autopilot.

To me it's much more about genetics and hormones then parenting. I think far too many parents beat themselves up thinking that they had a major role in making their child the way they are. It's only when parents start to get constantly negative in return, get so strick that the child can't cope, or neglect their child that I feel damage can be done. Most of you seem to have found good coping mechanisms and also love your children. Really that is the most important thing. They need us because if my daughter is like your daughter, they have no real true friends.

Scuro,

I couldn't agree with you more! Hormones really wreak havoc in little girls!!! And, it seems to me that girls are starting the whole pubescent melodrama so much earlier these days. I keep reminding myself that often times I get the brunt of my daughter's anger not because of something I've done or said, but because of the anger and frustration she is feeling due to her "friendships." And, yes, my daughter doesn't really have any friends beyond her family.

I will not do hormones I put my foot down at hormones. My daughter will not be allowed to have hormonal attacks.















lmbo thats like that one time I said none of my kids would curse too.

Is there a fast forward button?

From a Middle School Brain Workshop: :D

The Middle School aged brain is like driving a Ferrari without any brakes.

dream wrecker!!!!!!!!!

dream wrecker!!!!!!!!!
Which one, the Ferrari or the adolescent? :D

Which one, the Ferrari or the adolescent? :D


Both if you really must know. :p