Hi all, it is kind of long, but I am frustrated...

Lately as I approach my third year in college I've begun struggling with school and other aspects of everyday life. I made a four page list of my symptoms which included problems with short-term memory, focus, motivation, and organization and took them to a psychologist on the other side of town.

Being 21 years old and a psychology major myself I was fairly certain that my symptoms were most likely ADD, and after I took several online questionaires I found that it was "highly probable" that I am ADD inattentive.

This was nice to see as it is what I expected because my cousin has ADD and had the same problems that I had before he went to the doctor. On my visit with the psychologist we decided that she would do 4 different sessions of ADD testing and I decided that was fine although I didn't understand why she needed to run 4 hours of tests to determine that I was having problems with concentration and focus when I knew I was.

The first session I took a CPT (continuous preformance test?) test on her computer which I didn't do too well on probably because I had to sit there for 15 minutes clicking after certain letters came up. I got bored. The next session involved visual/auditory questioning. She would ask me a series (ten) of math questions like "What is 4+4?." There were many other things I did like putting blocks together to make a picture or putting a set of pictures in sequential order.

I turned out to be pretty good at those tough math questions she asked me like "4+4=?" and the tough verbal questions like "What does 'pity' mean?" It turns out I am pretty smart. She told me I was above average in both reading, verbal, and math comprehension and therefore I did not have ADD.

I would say that I am fairly knowledgable about AD/HD and I can tell you that most people on these boards are above average when it comes to knowing definitions of words and simple math questions. My problem isn't with preformance on math questions while being carefully watched and evaluated by a stranger. My problem is with concentration, ability, and focus none of which she tested for. I could have told her that I was smart. It's about how you use it, and that's where I lack.

So what do I do next? What are my options?

Sorry about the vent, and mods you probably want to move me to college/university as I realized that I was probably in the wrong forum after I typed all this out.

Thank you all,
Chris

She told me I was above average in both reading, verbal, and math comprehension and therefore I did not have ADD.
Nope sorry, I'm afraid she's right. You're much too smart to hang out with us dummies. Maybe you should try MENSA instead? :D

Actually it sounds like your shrink got it wrong, though. We're smart but we're lazy, remember? She must have swapped crib sheets by accident. Diligent but dumb?

Welcome to the ADD forums, Chris!

When did you first start to notice problems with memory, focus, motivation, and organization?
Do you believe these impair your functioning in any area of your everyday life?


On my visit with the psychologist we decided that she would do 4 different sessions of ADD testing and I decided that was fine although I didn't understand why she needed to run 4 hours of tests to determine that I was having problems with concentration and focus when I knew I was.
It doesn't matter if you believe you're ADHD, a diagnosis is what proves it. A doc (hopefully) isn't just going to diagnose you because you say you're ADHD. :)

The reason she ran different tests is for reliability purposes since ADHD cannot be objectively verified. This is a smart move. In my experience in the mental health field, most psychiatrists give 2+ tests for various mental health disorders.

The first session I took a CPT (continuous preformance test?) test on her computer which I didn't do too well on probably because I had to sit there for 15 minutes clicking after certain letters came up. I got bored. The next session involved visual/auditory questioning. She would ask me a series (ten) of math questions like "What is 4+4?." There were many other things I did like putting blocks together to make a picture or putting a set of pictures in sequential order.
The CPTs (Continuous Performance Test) measures impulsitivity and inattention. CPT is not just 1 test, it's a category of tests, although there is a CPT test that's called CPT (Connor something something).

Could you please explain what you mean when you "got bored"
how were you bored by it? because it was easy?

Did your doc administer any other tests besides the visual CPT and the CPT CPT?

My problem is with concentration, ability, and focus none of which she tested for. I could have told her that I was smart. It's about how you use it, and that's where I lack.
Your doc did test concentration/focus with the CPT tests.
Ability is the capacity/skill to accomplish something. So your correct answers versus incorrect answers scores would reflect ability, I believe, within the CPT numbers.


So what do I do next? What are my options?

If you're not happy with your doc's conclusion, then seek a 2nd opinion :)

Another thing you should do is go to your general physician for a check up, to rule out other medical possibilities that can mimic ADHD.

Good luck!

If I had to take one of those tests I would probably do really well because its a new thing. The novelty would really grab my attention and it wouldnt reflect the how pathetic I get at dealing with mundane, everyday stuff. Although I get distracted a lot and constantly, given the right environment I can perfectly concentrate if I want to, although the minute I realize Im trying too hard my concentration disappears.

I believe very much in doing my own homework and research after being misdiagnosed twice. A bad psychiatrist is one of the most dangerous, terrifying things I can think of, and the minute you even begin to suspect you might in the near future have doubts about the competence of the one treating you now is the minute to cut contact and maybe go see someone else.

You are studying this in college too. Your opinion should be defended and lsitened to appropiately.

While some ADD people need to learn how to live outside their heads and learn to be not so self centered in everyday life, NOW is the time for you to be 100% selfish, in the doctors office.

Being smart has nothing to do with a.d.d!!I was college reading and literature and science level in junior high!A.D.D and A.D.H.D is a problem with the brain functioning properly.My pediatrician who is on the board of C.H.A.D.D of oklahoma said there is NO test for it.Let me guess,you paid like 600 bucks for all that.They tried to do the same to me until I talked to someone who wasnt trying to milk money out of me or make me their guinne pig #145!lol.

I agree with Brandilyn,I think it's insulting that a professional assumes being ADHD/ADD means the person is stupid.

ADHD/ADD is not some type of mental retardation,certain factors of ADHD/ADD can hinder a persons' ability,such as having very poor short term memory,inability to concentrate,feeling hyperactive,mind reading too fast etc,but it's not problems with intelligence that defines the disorder-a person can have a huge IQ with ADHD/ADD.


As mentioned already,you can get a second opinion from another pyschiatrist,ask around for a recommendation of one-there is no wrong in seeking a 2nd opinion,different docs can have different opinions.
Be prepared for the outcome,it might be possible you don't have ADD,or you might come home with a ADD diagnosis,as difficult as it is,try not to convince yourself that you have ADD or any other specific condition just yet as it can start to effect the diagnosis subconciously,and cause issues afterwards.

Hey,

I can't answer specific questions, as I don't practice on the net. Even if I did (never happen), I wouldn't TELL you what to do.

I'm an adult ADHD and a licensed (clinical/child) psychologist in Minnesota. I have a MA in Clin Psych, as Mn was the last state in the US to allow that when we moved here over 20yrs ago.
My pratice is 90-95% ADHD kids between roughly 6-19/20.

I was diagnosed in 1972 at age 22 (yes, I'm old as ****). Back then it was called MBD (Minimal Brain Dysfunction or Brain Damage).I was told the latter. I went on meds and went form an undergrad gpa of 2.53 to a grad school gpa of 3.66.

Truth be told, I had a 3.83 going into Spring quarter but the Allman Brother's were on tour and my friend was playing keyboard and nevermind, that's a long story. Substitute any Cheech & Chong Movie for the explanation:).

Hypothetically speaking (meaning please read between the lines), there's no one way to test for ADHD.I have friends and colleagues who use CPT's as part of a "blended" report.I can live with that,however, they (tests) don't work by themselves. In fact, "checklist's trump tests" when it comes to diagnosing ADHD.

That comes from Russell Barkley's 2003 week long Medical College of Wisconsin's Door
County Summer Institute , which I attended.

The way it was described to me then , as well as in 2 separate teleconferences (sponsored by United Behavioral Health) with Dr. Barkley on March 3/24-3/25/05 on both Child & Adult ADHD, is that IQ tests and CPT's are "inappropriate" for diagnosing ADHD (when used by themselves). That part is key, as "by themselves" is the critical part.

Testing for Executive Function deficits in adults is much harder than with kids, as we have access to better checklist's.
In terms of Executive Function Test, the Wisconsin Card Sort is a well respected instrument.

For adults, the Conners ADHD Adult Rating Scale (CAARS) is a very good instrument.Also, the more background info the examiner has the better. In a perfect world, having someone's mom complete a similar checklist would be ideal, as adults (reportedly) under report symptoms due to having overcompensated for them for so long.

The key thing to remember about ADHD, regardless of the person's age is "Impairment in major life activities." The impairments must create "harmful dysfunction(s)."

That is the clinical threshold that divides normal dimensional behavior (everybody does those things to some degree) from a true "Disorder."

Wait and see what happens. Hypothetically speaking, spending 4 hrs on an eval tells me the examiner is conservative (which is good) and doesn't rush into things (which is also good).

Here's a good book to look into: The ADHD Book of Lists...by Sandra Rief (2003). She hasn't written a new book per se'. What she's done is to take all the research from the last 10-15 yrs and put it into list form. Excellent idea.

I wish you a lot of luck. ADHD is a very complicated subject. Currently, there are about a dozen operational definitions and no one way to test for it.

I'm glad you've found the Forum. The members are truly well informed consumers.
Take care.

mctavish23 (Robert)

I turned out to be pretty good at those tough math questions she asked me like "4+4=?" and the tough verbal questions like "What does 'pity' mean?" It turns out I am pretty smart. She told me I was above average in both reading, verbal, and math comprehension and therefore I did not have ADD.
Is there anything in any ADHD diagnostic criteria that says you have to score below a certain level on those kinds of tests? If not, then she sounds like a quack. I haven't come across any such critera, in fact, I often see evidence that points the other way, that ADD people are often gifted in some ways. After all, people say Einstein likely had ADHD.

I would go somewhere for a second opinion. Maybe you don't have ADHD, but at least you deserve a more legitimate reason why you don't

BTW,

I didn't read that (the IQ testing) as "stupid." I read that as attemtping to test the Executive Functions (which is exactly what was done).

Please be patient. I've (literally) done over a 1000 psych evals. in 28+ yrs. I'm not jumping up and down here, so I hope you can wait and see what the results are.

There's nothing wrong with 2nd opinions, unless you havent gotten the first one back yet.:)

The first thing I look at in trying to diagnose ADHD (mostly in kids, although I do see the occasional adult oncall ),is the use of the word "always."

The child has "always" done that helps with establishing whether or not the diagnostic criteria have been met first. That's more important than the symptoms and goes back to the need for "impairment" to be involved.

The old cutoff age of "7" has been done away with. Now you look at "from an early age(for ADHD-Combines & ADHD-Hyperactive -Impulsive types)."

For the Inattentive types, the symptoms may present at a later date, although not necessarily so. It depends on how they "impair" the child.That may be more difficult to see than hyperactive behavior, especially if they're quiet and well behaved.


In terms of "scores," I look at checklists and NOT subtest scatter from IQ tests. I just posted a research study in another thread supporting that contention.

With respect to checklist scores, the Conners Parent Rating Scale and the Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function (BRIEF), the latter being the best diagnostic tool currently available, use what are called "linear T scores."

T scores are weighted statistical measures. With Linear T scores, the higher the point on the graph, the more symptoms or problems the parent is indicating apply to their child, under each particular category.

For example, on the Conners, T scores between 66-70 indicate there is a 95-98 % chance the child is "at risk " for whichever problem the score(s) pertains to; compared to other (non ADHD) kids (of the same sex) within a prescribed age range, such as 6-8 yrs or 12-14yrs, etc.

T scores of T70 or greater, indicate a 98+% "at risk" factor.

The BRIEF's cutoff for significance is T65.As I mentioned earlier, it's the best assessment tool currently available.

George Du Paul's ADHD-IV Scale actually has better norms than the Conners, which is one of the oldest (and until recently #1) checklists around.
We don't use the ADHD-IV at our mental health center but I'm activley lobbying for it.

The key thing to remember about all 3 of those is that they're normed on BOTH girls and boys. That is a very big deal. One size doesn't fit all in diagnosing ADHD and you never want to use an instrument that compares girls with a sample population of boys.

There may be some other checklists I'm not familiar with that are also good, however, these are the most widely used.

I hope that helps some in terms of scores.Even if I were to test a child with the WISC-IV (Wechsler Intelliegence Scale for Children-Fourth Edition), which has substantially changed the way the subtest scores are presented, I would always take the BRIEF Clinical Scales over the WISC-IV subtest scatteer.

Working Memory, as measured by the BRIEF, is more accurate for diagnosing ADHD than the Working Memory subtest on the WISC-IV. If they match then yippee skippee.
Once again, my reference is Russ Barkley.

She told me I was above average in both reading, verbal, and math comprehension and therefore I did not have ADD.


Yea this statement alone would have clued me in the this preson doesn't "do ADD" diagnosis well. I mean haveing a short attention span and having intelligence is NOT one in the same. I have seen some folks with low intellegence focus on the spinning of a ceiling fan for hours!!!!

Yes some brain injuries can cause decreases in attention but then again some don't.

I agree with what mctavish23 says that a second opnion would be in order(and all the other stuff sounds pretty informed to me), if you have access to old report cards from school, notes from teachers, a parential perspective may not be a bad idea either. ADD is a mainly history, symptoms/impairment, observed behaviors ect... no one test is availible to diagnosis or rule out ADD.



Being 21 years old and a psychology major myself


You didn't just get through studying ADD before you went in. Sorry I had an ADD moment while reading your post. I remembered when I was in nursing school and we were covering parasites...the subject of head lice made 9 out of 10 people's head itch!!!! Can't even touch the crab chapter reactions on this family site!!!! :eek:

5 students out of 10 went out and bought lice shampoo!!!! I guess it would be more entertaining if I could show you the picture inside my head.

Maybe my medications are wearing off...what was the topic...


Good luck and be sure to look for some one who is experienced in ADD diagnosis!!!!

I need to apologize for missing that statement about the your "not having ADD" based on those "average" or "above scores".

I'm in the middle of my own serious medication crisis,so I'm not being as thorough as I normally try to be.Thats another post all together.

Everyting I posted up above is accurate as to how diagnoses are made.

"Checklists trump tests" is the current state of the art.

If you've already had a feedback session on the test results and were told that you didn't have it on the basis of a computerized continuous performance test like the Test of Visual Accuity (TOVA) and/or an IQ test + an academic achievement test ONLY (meaing no checklists being filled out by you or your parents and no attempt to look at your history of academic problems or job history, i.,e., then you'll have to once again "read between the lines" to see what I think).

The main thing to consider is whether or not the symptoms have caused YOU some type of "impairment" .

As I've said many times before, most people do display some of the symptoms at some point in their lives. For a person who truly has ADHD, those symptoms "always" cause some type of problem for them.

Just having the symptoms doesn't cut it unless there's "impairment."


As a person gets older, then the need to "age reference" the symptoms becomes mandatory.

What I mean by that is that the original sample population used to develop the current DSM symptom list was weighted more towards boys and the oldest person in it was 16 yrs old.

That info. again comes from Russ Barkley, who was on the committee that drew those up.
Please don't misunderstand my point here.The criteria is research based and not looked at in a capricious manner. However, the age range of the sample population demands that the symptoms be modified over time to fit with adult behaviors.

A good example that I've seen listed before by Dr Barkley would be for an adult to behave more like a "workaholic" than "runs or climbs excesssivley in inappropriater situations" or behave in a "restless" manner.The latter is used for adolescents who no longer run out in front of cars, etc.

Since you're young, that may not apply to you now, however, it helps to know these things because as a person gets older they need fewer symptoms that the 6 of 9 required for kids (thats again taken from Dr Barkleys presentation at Door County in 2003).

I hope you read up on ADHD, as there are many excellent references available.

You Mean I'm Not Lazy,Stupid Or Crazy? by Kate Kelly & Peg Ramundo and Driven To Distraction by Lee Hallowell M.D., are 2 of the best.

Chisdavis, I think I understand completely how you feel. I have pretty much decided that I have ADHD. I go in for an evaluation, August 30th. I have been mulling over the last few days what I will feel like if I am told I don't have ADHD. I think it will be kind of bittersweet, good that I don't have it, but then what the heck is wrong with me!

I like what Emma S. said about being so convinced one has it that one could actually subconciously alter the tests, creating subsequent problems. Another thing I have been worrying about.

Hopefully things will work out for you.

Warm regards,
Larry

chisdavis,

My son was unsure what to do with his life after graduation from high school, but knew he could not sit in a desk for another five years. He had obvious symptoms of ADHD and his mother had been diagnosed and on medication for two years.

A psychologist gave him aptitude tests to see where his strengths were and rule out any learning disabilities. She did other tests and checklists to investigate ADHD. On the Woodcock-Johnson, my son's functioning level was in the 92 percentile. One glaring finding was that despite scoring above average or high average in most of the categories, his processing speed was average and in the 68 percentile. I don't really care about the numbers, but the low processing speed really hit home with me.

The investigations and his parent's diagnosis strongly suggested ADHD and a trial of medication was recommended. At no time, did this psychologist, who is very experienced with ADHD, suggest that his scores on the W-J had anything to do with his diagnosis of ADHD.

I wouldn't worry about that.

It's about checklists that cover your history of ......"impairments in major life activites" and not test scores.


There is no "ADHD test score."

All of the above posts where I referenced Dr Barkley, were from both the 2003 Door County Summer Institute and the March 2005 UBH teleconferences on Adult & Child ADHD.

My point is that these data haven't changed.

Even if a person were biased in terms of taking a certain psychological test (this pertains to tests in general and not ADHD exclusively,as "checklists trump tests" for diagnosing ADHD), an experienced examiner can tell if a person has put forth a valid effort or the tests themselves have validity & reliabilty factors built in to help determine that.

The "face to face" time it takes to take certain psychological tests gives the examiner the opportunity to also obeserve the person's test taking behavior. That would include demonstrating possible symptoms of ADHD.

Hopefully, the examiner has had an opportunity to meet the person before the testing session and has observed their behavior to some degree.

If the person exhibits the same symptoms across multiple sessions lasting a number of hours, you (examiner) can then say that those behaviors have been consistenly displayed over time.

If those symptoms are then supported by other data, such as checklists, transcripts, etc,. then the puzzle is starting to be pieced together.

In fact, right now, the best measure of hyperactivity is behavioral obeservation (over time).

One thing that Dr Barkley said at Door County (and not at the teleconference) was that adults tend to "underreport" their symptoms due to having lived with them for so long.

Tha'ts why the more corroborating info an adult can get from family.teachers, etc., is important.

Lastly, keep in mind that ADHD is largely (80%) a genetic disorder.

Therefore, looking for family histories of learning problems, including qutting school, multiple job changes, frequent car accidents or tickets or suspensions/revocations is important.

(Notice I didn't say you had to look for a "formal diagnosis," as there are many undiagnosed adults).

The other thing to look at would be the possibility of potential risk factors during and after pregnancy such as nicotine use, difficult births, etc.

It also goes without saying that alcohol and drug use during preganancy creates obvious concerns.

The US Surgeon Generals Report on Mental Health, Chapter 3 Disorders of Infancy, Childhood and Adolescence is an excellent source to check those factors out.

Subsequent head traumas or toxicities (like lead paint ingestion) account for the other roughly 20% of ADHD referred to as "acquired."

Mctavish23, what are impairments? I would guess alcoholism, lack of tolerance for thinking I don't respect. Dumpy housecleaning? Intolerance for outsiders.? Sorry, I just find relating to people is a quest in and of it's own!

"Therefore, looking for family histories of learning problems, including qutting school, multiple job changes, frequent car accidents or tickets or suspensions/revocations is important." :eek:

Car accidents? Now that rings a bell, had several, all minor, (not my fault, according to police reports), accidents before I went on medication. Think this would also come under the heading of impairment, subtle but there. I'm pretty sure no one (outside observer) would have thought of ADD as a possible causitive factor. Would have figured working mother with small children,busy with all that life entails, distractions, etc. might have been a factor.

Funny thing....since I've been medicated, (close to 20 yrs now) haven't had ANY car accidents. Makes one kinda stop and think...thanks for mentioning it Mctavish.

Impairments are "problems." In fact, the symptoms of ADHD are all "impairments."

"Impairments in major life activities " that create "harmful dysfunction" are what constitute the definition of a "disorder."

For kids, major life activities are basically school and peer relationships.

The same applies for adolescents, although you now add driving a car.

For adults, academics, social and interpersonal relationships, occupational problems (holding a job) and driving are the main ones.

The Woodcock-Johnson is a school pysch test historically used to determine Specific Learning Disabilities.

Processing Speed is an Executive Function.

One of the newly revamped Indexes on the WISC-IV (Wecshler Intelliegence Scale for Children-Fourth Edition ) is the PSI (Processing Speed Index).

While helpful, research doesn't support using IQ test subscatter to diagnose ADHD.
Once again, "checklists trump tests." :)

As an FYI, I went thru 3 days of aptitude testing that ultimately led me to becoming a psychologist.

I would strongly recommend that for ADHD individuals, as finding your "niche" is what helps determine your chances at success.

Dr.Barkley said something to that effect at Door County in 2003.

Thanks, McT, I always appreciate your input.

Processing Speed is an Executive Function.
While reading my son's test results, two things leapt off the page and created AHA!! moments:
*"superior ability to tasks presented visually first"
*"average processing speed"

Talking or lecturing is still used way too much when teaching. For some reason the line "Show me the money!!" comes to mind. Quit talking and just show me.

No wonder bright ADDers are accused of not putting in enough effort by teachers who recognize their underachievement. No wonder ADDers become impatient, frustrated, angry and depressed with their underachievement. Knowing you are the smartest person in a room, but unable to grasp new material as quickly as lesser mortals :D or retrieve it in a timely manner.

One typical academic accomodation for ADHD kids is directly related to problems with processing speed.

Giving the ADHD student fewer problems in class allows them to be able to finish at the same time, as well as doesn't punish them for that deficit.

Like a good many of the Executive Functions, processing speed is "invisible." You have to be able to document a deficit to substantiate the need for help.

On the BRIEF (Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function), one of the Summary Scales is the Metacognition Index (MI).

MI covers the following Clinical Scales : 1) Initiate-ability to get started on a task;

2) Working Memory- core deficit for ADHD-Inattentive type (the old "ADD)"-the ability to hold information long enough to solve a problem. Included in this would be the abitly to do mental arithmetic and the ability to persevere (stick to something w/o being sidetracked);

3) Plan/Organize-ability to plan ahead for the completion of future oriented tasks (preparing for that report thats due later);

4) Organization of Materials-doing your work and either losing it or forgetting to turn it in;

5) Monitor- ability to monitor your own progress in solving a task or probem (l ike checking your own work ) and the ability to monitor how your behavior effects other people.

One other Clinical Scale seems to occur with cognition problems, although it's listed in the Behavior Regulation Index (BRI). That would be Shift.

Shift- the ability to mentally shift/change ("gears)" from one problem to another as circumstances demand.
In other words,if Plan A doesn't work, you actually have a Plan B.


As you read these, it's easy to see where they apply to ADHD individuals.

Hope this helps.:)

Hello, I didn't mean to fire everyone up about this, but a much shortened list of my symptoms. You could skip to the bottom for the point I'm trying to make.
College problems:

Grades rose each semester until last semester when they plummeted. (3.21, 3.33, 3.5, 2.75).

I took a summer school class over the summer that met four times a week at 9:20. I am not sure that I went to class but once a week and that was on Mondays when the quizzes took place. After the midterm I did not attend class once until the final.


I’ve had difficulty staying at one job for more than a month as I become extremely bored with the job. I usually end up walking out of the job. I wake up one morning and I decide that I am tired of the job and I want to quit working there. This has happened at a United in Amarillo, TX, Olive Garden in Amarillo, and Wal-Mart here in Norman. Right now I am working at Albertson’s and have already contemplated quitting abruptly. (When I typed this out to bring to the doctor this was true, but I quit Alberton's a few days ago, walked out.)


For about a month I worked as a waiter at Olive Garden and I was absolutely terrible at it no matter how hard I tried. I could not handle more than two tables at a time and or large parties. No matter what I wrote down I would always forget something then I would become flustered and get even worse mentally.

I lose everything. I do not remember the last time I made it to work on time because I procrastinate until fifteen minutes before I have to be there to start getting ready and then I can't remember where my wallet, keys, name badge, and phone are so I am always in a hurry trying to get ready for work. I don’t recall the last time I was on time to work. I, however, am great at my job but I think it’s because it’s fast pace and requires little concentration. (Again, I quit so I do not sack anymore)


Not organized at all. My definition of being organized is stacking all of my papers together on one big stack. My dirty laundry gets thrown into one big pile, the dishes are in one big pile, and so is the trash. My car is the worst of them all. If I get fast food, I usually throw the trash into the back seat. All of the storage inside my car is filled with old receipts and trash.

During the regular school semesters I only go to class for tests, extremely surprised I do as well as I do.

Procrastination has moved from the day before to the night before to the overnight before to the morning before. I first woke up four hours before my test to study; now I am waking up only one or two hours before the test to study.

I always find myself multi-tasking because if I just do one thing I get extremely bored with it. This is not only true with school work but also true with things like computer games. When I am on my computer I usually have 10+ programs running because I get so bored so fast with one that I switch to another. It feels like it takes a LOT to stimulate/interest me.


I am terrible with money, overdraw my account weekly, spend way too much that I don't have. My credit card debt is ridiculous considering I don't even have a job.


I’ve become extremely unsociable & a hermit.

There are many little things like how I cannot listen to more than 10 seconds of a song, and I have a hard time holding a conversation longer than a couple minutes.

Not living up to potential at all, every time I see my grades at semester's end I always think, "Wow, if I only tried a little bit harder I would have done so much better."

I have little or no drive, nothing pushing me to living up to my potential. Wanted to go to med school at first but quickly became bored with that, wanted to go to law school but quickly became bored with that. (I’m pretty sure the changing the mind business is normal for any college kid).

I have a terrible time reading anything whether it’s for school or for enjoyment. I've desperately wanted to read Harry Potter, but I can't read more than a few pages before I am distracted. I got the audio tapes and cannot sit down and listen to those either before becoming bored. Only time I've actually been able to listen and enjoy the books is when I am driving home (a four hour drive) and playing them.

Get very frustrated with myself whenever I know that I should be studying or at class and I'm not because I am lazy and I just end up just feeling guilty/lazy all day.

I believe that I am much smarter than average but also much lazier than average. I feel it is possible that I have a problem considering how many great influences I have around me.

Problems from Elementary-High school
I wet my bed up to 9 and 10 years old.

I made good grades most of elementary school and some of middle school until homework and studying were introduced.


I had a terrible time doing elementary school/middle school projects like a science fair projects.

I remember getting an erector set for Christmas one year and my family would tease me because I would never build an entire machine without quitting and starting another.

As a kid I had a very short attention span and was easily bored, while my brother was building things with K’Nex I was constantly looking for new and interesting things.

In high school, I wouldn't say that my grades plummeted but I definitely was not living up to my potential.

Distractions became more of a problem as I began driving, having girlfriends, parties...etc.


Became extremely fickle, I wanted to go to a movie one second and the next second I changed my mind. My friends complained to me about this constantly.


I was also fickle with other things like friends and girlfriends as I would hang out or date new people constantly.

I hung out with some of the smartest kids at my high school and had great parents that graduated with honors but was not driven in high school. (I have two friends at UT, two that came to OU with me, and one that went to UCLA)

I compiled this list with help from my dad, brother, and girlfriend.

My cousin was diagnosed as AD/HD as a child and now with help has managed to be extremely successful. His problems as a child remind me a lot of mine.


:soapbox::soapbox::soapbox:
My list was about twice as long as this that I took to the psychologist. If I wasn't having a severe problem with the above statements than I wouldn't have gone to her. Yes, I did have four sessions of testing, but it only took two for her to quickly dismiss me as being too smart to have AD/HD. I'm plenty smart and plenty unmotivated like many of you. I believe that objective psychological testing for AD/HD has its place but it may be better for testing younger children or for psychologists and their patients that have less of a clue as to what is causing the symptoms.

Sorry about the novel,
Chris

Try finding a doctor who is not so stuck on arbitrary tests and is mor current on some of the more qualitative methods. I think most of the doctors presently rely more on observations and a symptomatic approach for diagnosis, and have a tendency to not want to apply a label but are more focused something descriptive and useful.

Me :D

Hi all, it is kind of long, but I am frustrated...

Lately as I approach my third year in college I've begun struggling with school and other aspects of everyday life. I made a four page list of my symptoms which included problems with short-term memory, focus, motivation, and organization and took them to a psychologist on the other side of town.

Being 21 years old and a psychology major myself I was fairly certain that my symptoms were most likely ADD, and after I took several online questionaires I found that it was "highly probable" that I am ADD inattentive.

This was nice to see as it is what I expected because my cousin has ADD and had the same problems that I had before he went to the doctor. On my visit with the psychologist we decided that she would do 4 different sessions of ADD testing and I decided that was fine although I didn't understand why she needed to run 4 hours of tests to determine that I was having problems with concentration and focus when I knew I was.

The first session I took a CPT (continuous preformance test?) test on her computer which I didn't do too well on probably because I had to sit there for 15 minutes clicking after certain letters came up. I got bored. The next session involved visual/auditory questioning. She would ask me a series (ten) of math questions like "What is 4+4?." There were many other things I did like putting blocks together to make a picture or putting a set of pictures in sequential order.

I turned out to be pretty good at those tough math questions she asked me like "4+4=?" and the tough verbal questions like "What does 'pity' mean?" It turns out I am pretty smart. She told me I was above average in both reading, verbal, and math comprehension and therefore I did not have ADD.

I would say that I am fairly knowledgable about AD/HD and I can tell you that most people on these boards are above average when it comes to knowing definitions of words and simple math questions. My problem isn't with preformance on math questions while being carefully watched and evaluated by a stranger. My problem is with concentration, ability, and focus none of which she tested for. I could have told her that I was smart. It's about how you use it, and that's where I lack.

So what do I do next? What are my options?

Sorry about the vent, and mods you probably want to move me to college/university as I realized that I was probably in the wrong forum after I typed all this out.

Thank you all,
Chris

Mctavish,

Would you please list a couple impairments that may indicate AD(H)D. I think I have an Idea as to what you're speaking of, but would appreciate confirmation. I don't want to sound dense, but suspect I may be in denial with certain things and missing your point.

Thanks for any info.
Larry

Thanks, Mctavish. I thought it may have come across as a dumb question, but sometimes I need a little extra clarification. I appreciate your time.

Wow!! Thank you everyone for the replies....I did not expect at all to get that great of a response.

I made an appointment with a GP and he asked me a few questions and thought it was likely that I had ADD and prescribed me to strattera.

Strattera over 6 weeks gave me minor improvements but with some weird dizzy/fatigue/tired feeling that hadn't disappeared, the GP then referred me to a psychiatrist and I have my appointment in a week with him

Just an update for all of you. Oh yeah...another thing, I don't recommend "yellow-paging" a psychologist/psychiatrist. I suppose there are referalls for a reason.

Chris

Adding 4+4? What?

I've heard of being asked harder mental math questions in an assessment...stuff like adding two two-digit numbers in your head. Something that would actually measure your ability to hold those numbers in memory while you worked with them. I don't know if you could do that, Chris, but I sure as hell couldn't!

But 4+4 is basic math...were you exaggerating a little, or is that really what she asked you? Because I don't know how you could make it to adulthood without being able to add 4 and 4.

But 4+4 is basic math...were you exaggerating a little, or is that really what she asked you? Because I don't know how you could make it to adulthood without being able to add 4 and 4.

Yes, 4+4 is pretty easy. The answer is obviously 7.9999998205.

[ A psychologist gave him aptitude tests to see where his strengths were and rule out any learning disabilities. She did other tests and checklists to investigate ADHD. On the Woodcock-Johnson, my son's functioning level was in the 92 percentile. One glaring finding was that despite scoring above average or high average in most of the categories, his processing speed was average and in the 68 percentile. I don't really care about the numbers, but the low processing speed really hit home with me.

The investigations and his parent's diagnosis strongly suggested ADHD and a trial of medication was recommended. At no time, did this psychologist, who is very experienced with ADHD, suggest that his scores on the W-J had anything to do with his diagnosis of ADHD.[/QUOTE]



Sorry, folks I could not get past this post, I konw there is lots more good stuff to read...
Last year I had my then 7 year old tested, one was that Woodcock whatever. He, like Imnple son averaged high average to superior (87-95) in all but processing; this poor kid’s processing speed came out in the 13th percentile. I guess this is extremely unusual so of course I have not been able to locate any resources. Any insight on helping him would be great!
He also has ADD and takes Concerta. I found an excellent tutor but it kills me to see a kid with an IQ of 120 plus struggle with basic learning...
From my experience with meds, I am afraid the stimulants actually slow down his processing speed. (This just now came to me as I am writing this)
I am not sure if I fully understand processing but as an example; yesterday I was at the library and (I had taken my Adderall) I was trying to locate a book alphabetically by the authors name and I swear I was staring at those names for minutes before they were registering in my brain. Prior to my diagnoses and medication, I would quickly scan the books and the authors name would have jump out at me as if it were in neon.
Anyway I’ll quit rambling but as I stated above, any insight or observations would be much appreciated.

That sounds like a well done,evidenced based eval.

The psychologist did an impressive job.

Two thumbs up here.

I've posted on this before, as well as attempted to get my colleagues to see this.

Standardized test scores,including subtest scatter from the Wechsler Intelligence scales,as well as scores from neuropsych tests, should NOT EVER be used to diagnose ADHD.

You can add the Woodcock-Johnson to that list as well.

Test scores are used to examine strenghts & weakneses.

IQ has NOTHING to do with the diagnosis, other than to look for a low level of functioning.

Tests like the W-J,are used to look for comorbid learning disabilities, as 50% of ADHD kids have LD's.

are those online adhd tests accurate and is it a good idea to take your results to your doctor!

Online tests are not standardized; meaning that the results have no power.

There's certainly no rule that says you can't bring them if you like.

For adult evaluations, the more corroborating evidence from family, including family history of ADHD, or learning problems, prenatal care, birth complications, etc., the better.

Academic history, includimg grades or transcripts, would be very helpful as well.

From my experience with meds, I am afraid the stimulants actually slow down his processing speed. (This just now came to me as I am writing this)I was just reading (I wish I could remember where so I know how valid it is) that smaller amounts of stimulents tend to improve scholastic learning, but the larger amounts needed to control behavioral problems tend to dampen the mental edge a bit. Maybe somebody more knowledgable can verify or debunk this. I'd be interested in the answer too.

Scattered

I was just reading (I wish I could remember where so I know how valid it is) that smaller amounts of stimulents tend to improve scholastic learning, but the larger amounts needed to control behavioral problems tend to dampen the mental edge a bit. Maybe somebody more knowledgable can verify or debunk this. I'd be interested in the answer too.

Scattered

Interesting, I certainly feel as if I have lost my mental edge.
It is a catch 22. Unmedicated I am sharper and faster, and I can solve problems quickly- almost intuitively, but I can't direct it.

Medicated I feel I am at half speed; It is like I have blinders on but have more self control. In a worker bee sort of way I am more productive.

This is really making me think, although it was fun for a while, I don't take as much pride in the worker bee role, as I do with my creativeness.

Maybe less meds is the answer...
Maybe I need a shrink....

Interesting, I certainly feel as if I have lost my mental edge.
It is a catch 22. Unmedicated I am sharper and faster, and I can solve problems quickly- almost intuitively, but I can't direct it. Medicated I feel I am at half speed; It is like I have blinders on but have more self control. In a worker bee sort of way I am more productive.

Maybe less meds is the answer...

(This might be better under the medications thread, but since I'm responding to a post, I'm putting it here.)

VickiS: Maybe. Or maybe even a different one. Have you tried anything besides Adderall?

In Thomas Brown's new book he says sometimes too high a dose leads to feelings/actions that are "wired", "edgy" or anxious (like having too much coffee), feeling irritable, or feeling very tired, sad, or "blunted" emotionally/ loss of usual "sparkle." On pg 262 he says, "An individual should be able to be their "regular self" when taking stimulant medications. If they become steadily tense, irritable, or "zombie like" while on a stimulant, the dose should be reduced. And if this does not alleviate the problem, a different medication should be tried instead."

I was feeling some of these, decreased dose, but med didn't seem to be helping much with ADD behaviors. For 2-3 weeks psychologist thought I seemed more serious or intense. One day I didn't take it and I happened to have an appointment with psychologist. We both noted my mood was lighter, less serious, more laughing. I realized how different I felt, besides lighter more like my "old self." Because of that and it not seeming do much for me, we all decided I should try something else. Friday on new med Dr. noted I seemed to be feeling better and my blood pressure had come down (110/72, around where it usually is), it had been up some on other med. Yesterday in the craft store with a friend I was in a light mood, being kind of silly cracking jokes. So even on the increased dose, I was feeling more "myself" than I had been feeling on the other med.

So my opinion: it doesn't hurt to try adjusting dosage, or to consider trying something else to see how you react. Everyone's body chemistry is different so what med or dose works for a lot of your doctor's patients or for your son or me, or whoever, may not be what works best for you.

Maybe I'm a little naive or idealistic as I'm still new to meds and still getting used to what they can/can't do and still titrating. It has not been easy and has been a little frustrating. Since 9/23 I've tried 2 meds, 2 doses each so I'm on my 4th prescription (and 4th co-pay). Since this one seems to be a better fit supposed to stick with it for a month and see what happens.

The thing is, I've been willing to work at finding a med and dose that seems best for me because I don't think it has to be a choice between either creativity or productivity. I think it might be possible for you to find a med and a dose that doesn't inhibit your creative side, but does help those synapses to communicate more effectively so you can be more productive too, without necessarily having that "worker bee" feeling.

Good luck finding something that doesn't make you feel at half-speed or uncreative/unintuitive.

~~bythesea