To all of you out there suffering from this debilitating illness, I'd like you to try, for just one day, this diet.

For breakfast, have: 1 apple, 1 orange, and 1 peach. Wash this down with a glass of grapefruit juice. Have whatever you want for the rest of the day but stay away from any kind of junk food if you can, especially sugary stuff.


That's it. Try it FOR ONE DAY. Then let me know how you felt for that one day and how your ability to conentrate, as well as your overall emotional state, was affected.

wow i'd like to know how this works out

Foldyclothes...if you're suffering from ADD, then I hope you try it out for yourself. I'm telling you, it works like a miracle. Give it a go and tell me what you think about it.

remnant, do you have ADHD?

Why not tell us a bit about yourself?

ADHD is not a nutritional based disorder. At best it might just make things a tad better and if it did change your life then you probably didn't have ADHD.

I'm directing this mianly towards people with ADD...which is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Certain types of foods change brain chemistry...some foods will make you tired, depressed and lethargic. Others will charge you with energy. Fruit is the best example of an energy charging food. Obviously I can't make any promises, but It certainly can't hurt anyone to try this just once. I just want someone with ADD to try it just one time. the results ought to speak for themselves.

If you are taking stimulants, and drink grapefruit juice, as you listed..does that reduce the effectiveness of the medication? I know in certain medications, this happens.

Like scuro mentioned, it's not a nutritional based disorder. A diet might help with the ADHD symptoms, but I don't think ADHD can be cured, just by diet.

I have started many a day "fruit only" not because of my ADHD but more because of my weight. I had no eureka moment of discovery....ever.

The placebo effect has been discovered to be a legitimate and physiological in nature, and not just in the "mind".

Perhaps if you feel positive about it, you would notice some benefits.

hypoglycemia ??

maybe ASD ??

It's a ducumented fact that an apple in the morning gives you more energy than a cup of coffee. It's also a fact that the energy from an apple is long term, unlike other foods like chocolate where it's short term and then you crash.

I really don't believe there's a placebo affect here. I had no reason to believe in the effects that this particular combination of fruit gave me. They just occurred. As I understand it, A placebo only works as a placebo if you believe in the effects before they occur.

I'd like someone to try this specific combination. Maybe I am wrong, maybe the effects are just specific to my own biology, but this is something worth trying just once, I think.

Yes, Remnant, I found the discovery of the apple instead of caffeine really interesting; who knew?

I have ADHD and have always been hyperactive. I don't need more energy, I need exercise and medication to calm me down. Everyone needs to maintain a healthy lifestyle and daily servings of fruits and vegetables are part of a healthy lifestyle.

I am now on a daily vitamin recommended by my optometrist because I have some "spots" in my eye. Controlled studies have shown this specific daily vitamin helps prevent more damage. Who knew?

The placebo effect has been discovered to be a legitimate and physiological in nature, and not just in the "mind".

Perhaps if you feel positive about it, you would notice some benefits.

You got me there. lol Just call me grumpy ol' Scuro. lmao

I just know too much to ever feel positive about trying to really influence my ADHD with food. It's not the energy that is required in coffee but rather the stimulants which have a proven and significant effect on ADHD.

There is no data from mainstream research that supports any nutritional supplement for the treatment of ADHD.

Omega 3 longchain fatty acids (fish oil) have shown promise, as have a high protein diet. However, that's in the context of supplements and not as a clinical treatment.

Someone who I respect a great deal and who I also believe to be highly ethical and sincere, is Dr.John F.Taylor.

I saw one of his workshops several years ago and was impressed,.Even though I knew that the US Surgeon Generals Report on Mental Health (Chapter 3) and every major ADHD researcher would all agree that the research from the last 30 years has failed to show a nutritional link with and for ADHD, I still enjoyed his presentation immensely.

He is actually a student of Benjamin Feingold of the Feingold Diet fame, which I thought was cool. Thats the controversial 1970's diet that was proven to not work for ADHD. I believe (meaning I don't know for certain) that it might have been found to hlep with certain learning disabilities, however, I' m not positive about that.


Either way, he is a very nice and sincere gentleman and I would attend one of his workshops again.

For some people, the change in diet may work. For instance, some people have food allergies, and this has been shown to help people with ADD to do better when diet is controlled. However, long term, those controls are often unrealistic, just due to human nature to eventually eat the offending foods, just like any diet.

However, that does not reduce the validity that a person with ADD may feel better and do better by changing their eating habits.

I also want to note, that i believe strongly, that there is no one single ADD source. I believe many people here who have symptoms of ADD, may have the symptoms for a variety or reasons, many of which are yet still undiagnosed. For instance, depression, PTSD, Panick disorders, Bi-polar disorders, Chronique Fatigue, Vitamin deficiency, Sleep
Apnea, Insomnia, etc, can all cause ADD symptoms. There currently is no test to tell WHY a person has ADD symptoms, so there is no reason, therefore, to believe all people with ADD have the same illness, just the same symptoms, or many similar symptoms from a large pool of symptoms we can relate to. This does not mean we all have the same thing. Many of the mood disorders may be from the same gene attributed to ADD...so we all might have different versions of a genetic difference...

The answers are so unclear still, that no theory or treatment can be completely discounted.

Just my opinion...

Jonathan

The research over the last 30 years has not (ever) supported nutritional treatments. Having said that, I do take an Omega 3 supplement daily. I can't say for certain that it helps, but I do know that it won't hurt me. Even if it's placebo effect and I think it works then, what the heck.

Treating food allergies is great and it would help the ADHD person with them feel better. It just isn't going to impact the ADHD.

I have had severe allergies all my life and have been thru many different treatments. When they're really bad, it doesn't matter to me if my ADHD is bothering me or not because the other problem has all my attention.

Thank you for all those posts.:)

I also want to note, that i believe strongly, that there is no one single ADD source. I believe many people here who have symptoms of ADD, may have the symptoms for a variety or reasons, many of which are yet still undiagnosed.
Jonathan

I'll buy that so I guess there is the slight chance that your diagnosis could be incorrect and that a diet change may make a difference.

Happy? :)

lol.... yah. Thanks. actually, i think my ADD has to be treated on many fronts, not just one. The ADD battle is not "uni-dimensional". The longer i try to get a grip on it, the more I realize its many things, not just one. But in my case, i dont think food is the main culprit. However, my allergy testing indicates i am allergic to virtually everything i eat.... so who knows.....

I have the classic symptom of wanting to do stuff but never doing it. I'm hoping to tag along on my daughter's next appointment and finally talk about a trial run. I guess midforties isn't too old now, is it? I'm thinking there is probably better stufff out there then 2 cups of coffee a day...or at least I should check it out.

To all of you out there suffering from this debilitating illness, I'd like you to try, for just one day, this diet.

That's it. Try it FOR ONE DAY. Then let me know how you felt for that one day and how your ability to conentrate, as well as your overall emotional state, was affected.
Efficacy and validity questions notwithstanding, your post suggests that this diet works on the day you do it. So let's say that it does. You don't suggest that people do this every single day, right? So we'd get the benefits on the days we followed it--all symptoms of ADD cleared up for a day--but then go back to our old selves the next day?

Have you tried this diet? Do you have ADD? Any more anecdotal evidence from other folks who tried it and liked it?

Please also tell us more about yourself. I'm not trying to be antagonistic here; I'd just like more convincing info than you've provided so far. Thanks!!

And what's wrong with the breakfast of Shredded Wheat with soymilk that has sustained me for about 20 of the last 52 years?
By the way, I actually encountered someone at work who eats the same breakfast and is ADDH (I'm more ADD myself).

Efficacy and validity questions notwithstanding, your post suggests that this diet works on the day you do it. So let's say that it does. You don't suggest that people do this every single day, right? So we'd get the benefits on the days we followed it--all symptoms of ADD cleared up for a day--but then go back to our old selves the next day?

Have you tried this diet? Do you have ADD? Any more anecdotal evidence from other folks who tried it and liked it?

Please also tell us more about yourself. I'm not trying to be antagonistic here; I'd just like more convincing info than you've provided so far. Thanks!!

I HAVE TO AGREE 100% WITH KITTY KITTY. Posting a treatment without any more info, about experience with it, who, what, where, when and why, no science behind it, no subjects who have tried it, etc; is unrealistic if you are expecting serious people to try it ..we have ADD, not low IQ.... However, offer some more info. Personally, i know that diet won't work for me, i need more balance, not just carbs. But if it works for someone, well, i'm not going to say it doesnt work for that person. However, making one person feel better is a long shot from being a a treatment for ADD. Is there any proof that you don't have some kind of nutritional deficiency, that either exaccerbates your ADD, or that you don't really have ADD? Something to think about.

Jon

I don't see what the big deal is. I think it is possible to discover something without any formal research. I don't see how eating an apple, peach, or whatever a day can harm you.

I don't care what anyone says. Certain nutritional approaches has worked for me. Omega 3 has wiped my symptoms off the earth. Unfortanately, they lowered my immunity, so I had to give them up. Eating vegetable protein helps sometimes. Increasing my iron intake really helps (that is when I have the self-discipling to stick to an high iron diet). Exercize also helps me sometimes.

You may "discover" some things without formal research.However, when you imply that those things will work for other people, thats when you have to have research to prove your point.

The other thing is that some people may accept that as means of a "cure" and then be disappointed. In many cases that translates to "ripped off." I'm not suggesting that applies to you here,but I am saying that research is needed to prove anyone's point.

Anectodal experiences don't equal research that's been replicated time and again while achieving the same exact results.

The "big deal" is in how you (or anyone) present(s) things.

For example, "Hey I think this might have helped me (for whatever problem) vs. a "possible solution."

For the most part, the Forum members are very sophisticated consumers .However,that has come thru the "school of hard knocks" via trial & error mixed with heartache and frustration.

If your diet helps you then I'm happy for you. ADHD is a debilitating disorder at it's worst.Therefore, we're naturally skeptical of anything that can't be substantiated.

There is no data currently available that supports a nutritional treatment.It would be great if there were,however, it's got to be substantiated over time first. Without that, you can't make any claims or generalizations;other than your own testimony.

Nutrition research on ADHD has been going on for about 30+ years or so.

I do wish you well.

mctavish23 (Robert)

I give my daughter a smoothie every morning for breakfast as it used to take ages for her to actually eat anything. In the smoothie I put sunflower seeds, raisins, flax
seed oil, raw vegetables, fruit, natural fruit juice ( no preservatives), no
sugar , yoghurt and an egg - sounds revolting but the fruit seems to mask
the taste of everything else. I read that ADD children/ people should be on a high
protein diet - hence the egg. We also have cut out ALL preservatives, flavourants and colourants during the week. On the weekend she can eat ( within reason ) whatever she wants.
Not a cure, but at least it seems to be helping her get through the morning at school.

When this idea first came about was in relation to the Feingold diet.

Here's what the research found........ Approx. 5% of PRESCHOOL ADHD kids showed a sensitivity to diet.

However, treating the food allergy ONLY helped the food allergy.

It had NO IMPACT on ADHD.

Oops - I seem to be putting my foot in it. I did not imply that it had any impact on ADD, infact I did say it was not a cure. I haven't gone the Feingold route but was only offering up an idea.

np:)

Eating a more healthy diet is good for everyone.

There's just no connection with treating ADHD.

To all of you out there suffering from this debilitating illness, I'd like you to try, for just one day, this diet.

For breakfast, have: 1 apple, 1 orange, and 1 peach. Wash this down with a glass of grapefruit juice. Have whatever you want for the rest of the day but stay away from any kind of junk food if you can, especially sugary stuff.


That's it. Try it FOR ONE DAY. Then let me know how you felt for that one day and how your ability to conentrate, as well as your overall emotional state, was affected.

I'll do it (not today) later in the week and let you know what happens.

jana

You may "discover" some things without formal research.However, when you imply that those things will work for other people, thats when you have to have research to prove your point.

The other thing is that some people may accept that as means of a "cure" and then be disappointed. In many cases that translates to "ripped off." I'm not suggesting that applies to you here,but I am saying that research is needed to prove anyone's point.

Anectodal experiences don't equal research that's been replicated time and again while achieving the same exact results.

The "big deal" is in how you (or anyone) present(s) things.

For example, "Hey I think this might have helped me (for whatever problem) vs. a "possible solution."

For the most part, the Forum members are very sophisticated consumers .However,that has come thru the "school of hard knocks" via trial & error mixed with heartache and frustration.

If your diet helps you then I'm happy for you. ADHD is a debilitating disorder at it's worst.Therefore, we're naturally skeptical of anything that can't be substantiated.

There is no data currently available that supports a nutritional treatment.It would be great if there were,however, it's got to be substantiated over time first. Without that, you can't make any claims or generalizations;other than your own testimony.

Nutrition research on ADHD has been going on for about 30+ years or so.

I do wish you well.

mctavish23 (Robert)
You truly deserve the 'eloquence' award, more than I ever do, McTav !!
I'm only going to ADD to this, by pointing out, my frequent nature of declaring 'This is only my opinion..mine and no one else's'...
That, and trying to remember, to list the urls of websites, on of which I post material from, on some of my posts.
Thanks!
Nova

In the past I have been on strict diets of wholefoods, no sugar, no refined foods, just good clean vegetables and grains and proteins such as fish and tofu. Though I now know I need to bump up my protein intake, I beleive diet to be a huge factor in the treatment of ADHD.

sugar - makes me feel scattered and braindead (when the initial rush subsides) this affects my concentration
refined food - is dead food, and the body wastes energy dealing with it.
salty foods - like chips etc, affect the nervous system and can make you feel edgy, worrysome.

A wholefood diet with fresh grains, legumes and veges feeds the brain and body and has a markedly calming effect. you only notice these huge benefits when you are'nt consuming strong foods like caffeine, sugar, alcohol, salt. In the past i have been able to manage my ADHD by strictly staying off these destructive foods. I didn't know I had ADHD, but I felt MUCH more in control.
the problem is, most people find it very hard to stay strictly on clean healthy foods. For me, having been recently diagnosed, I'd rather be anal about my diet than take speed (dexies) or some other drug any day.

My goodness! The title of this thread does include the word 'possible'. How many of us have tried a med with 'possible' benefits for our ADD symptoms? And how long did it take for us to discover that what works for one person might not work for another?

Personally, and apparently I'm not alone, I'm skeptical of a diet-based solution, and would probably not go out of my way to try it.

However, I can tell you that I have found some relief from regular meditation. For me, it is about learning some discipline over my mind which I never had before. I'm sure that lot's of people think of meditiation as a bit too 'far out' or 'spiritual'. Usually people who think that meditation is hocus-pocus have difficulty with meditation (unless they are involved in a regular, guided meditation) so it probably won't work for them like it does for me.

Who's right? I am......but so are you.

I've found some days when I meditate all my ADD symptoms disappear. My mind is very calm and I can focus very well.

I've found some days when I meditate all my ADD symptoms disappear. My mind is very calm and I can focus very well. How long does the effect last?

I've found that the days where I sleep all day all of my ADD symptoms seem to disappear. :D

I've done 2 years of vegetarian diet with meditation and lots of exercise. I don't recall it making me feel any remarkable difference where I said "Wow, I just couldn't live without this."

However, the day I took my first Ritalin I had nearly 10 hours of "Oh My God, have I been living my life with only half of my brain connected or what? I need to get me some more of this stuff!"

So, everyone is different. Even Ritalin has a different effect on everyone who takes it.

If it works for you and anyone else....far out. But don't ever expect it to work on everyone. ok, pumpkin? :D

I've found that the days where I sleep all day all of my ADD symptoms seem to disappear. :D SO DO I !!
Could it be we have been missing such a simple solution? :faint:

I think somebody needs to do a study on the contribution that sleep deprivation has made to malady's such as ADHD.

Our kids sleep less...even if we force them to turn off the TV and games and go to bed at a decent hour they still have to get up too early and go to school and take classes on things like history...I mean...come on....we're making them miss sleep for history? My apologies....I was digressing...

The one common theme I get from everyone ADD is lack of sleep. For whatever reason. Maybe it was instilled in us as a society during the cold war to always be freaked out that you never know when the bad guys are going to drop the bomb. Who knows. But I would say lack of sleep has more to do with how strongly your ADD symptoms present..or not....than anything in your diet....including medication.

I wish there was some government funded study that was taking volunteers to get lots of sleep to see what that does for their ADD....oh but wait! You can't make TRILLIONS of dollars off of people that way... I mean...look what that would do to the pharma industry....and what would that do to all of the businesses that take advantage of their loyal salaried workers who give up sleep to improve the bottom line?

Cynical? ME? No way? I'm just the same as Grumpy smurf....who is ticked off that he didn't get cast in the part of Sleepy the Dwarf. I mean, what kinda gig is that? You get to sleep all of the time and when you're awake you hang out with some hot chic who is 3 times taller than you...Now you see why, don't you? :rolleyes:

This might be of some interest to you...


http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/news/Diet_ADD_article.html

Please note that the "article" referenced above is actually a press release, put out by The Feingold Association, a non-profit organization supporting a dietary approach to problems like hyperactivity and difficulty paying attention.

The Feingold "article" states certain synthetic, petroleum-based food additives act like drugs on certain children, impairing learning and triggering symptoms which look exactly like ADD and ADHD.

"If diet is not sufficient, a parent can then explore other options."

So, while the Feingold Association is encouraging a diet change to "correct" symptoms caused by such additives, they're not suggesting that dietary changes will help those that actually DO have ADD/ADHD.

.oO(I hope this made sense...)

Uh, FightingBoredom, you are quite right about present day society's difficulty with sleep deprivation, but I was thinking more along the lines of if I stay in bed and sleep, I can't get into much trouble. :D

Imnapl, It lasts all day for me. Sometimes I don't notice the effect as much as others. I guess it depends on how long I meditate and what stage of meditation I get into.
Other people seem to notice the difference in me too. My boss was questioning me about something one day when I was really busy and usually can't concentrate enough to give him a good answer(just stutter and stammer), but that day I calmly answered his questions and continued what I was doing. He looked surprised and said "very good". I think my problem is my mind races esp. under pressure and the meditation calms it.

IMHO ADD and sleep disorders are correlationally related. I know in my own live, sleep disorders have been a large part of my ADD symptoms. I've dealt with sleep apnea and with a hard to diagnose form of narcolepsy....and my sleep patterns were all over the charts. With treatment for the sleep disorders, there was a significant reduction in ADD symptoms.

However, other treatments have still been necessary, so i wouild say that sleep is a major factor (not a minor player) in ADD, and it is one that is overlooked. I would also venture to say that without succesfully treating my sleep disorders, it would have been nearly impossible to properly determine what other treatments were needed for me to get my life back on track.

Jon

I think somebody needs to do a study on the contribution that sleep deprivation has made to malady's such as ADHD.

Our kids sleep less...even if we force them to turn off the TV and games and go to bed at a decent hour they still have to get up too early and go to school and take classes on things like history...I mean...come on....we're making them miss sleep for history? My apologies....I was digressing...

The one common theme I get from everyone ADD is lack of sleep. For whatever reason. Maybe it was instilled in us as a society during the cold war to always be freaked out that you never know when the bad guys are going to drop the bomb. Who knows. But I would say lack of sleep has more to do with how strongly your ADD symptoms present..or not....than anything in your diet....including medication.

I wish there was some government funded study that was taking volunteers to get lots of sleep to see what that does for their ADD....oh but wait! You can't make TRILLIONS of dollars off of people that way... I mean...look what that would do to the pharma industry....and what would that do to all of the businesses that take advantage of their loyal salaried workers who give up sleep to improve the bottom line?

Cynical? ME? No way? I'm just the same as Grumpy smurf....who is ticked off that he didn't get cast in the part of Sleepy the Dwarf. I mean, what kinda gig is that? You get to sleep all of the time and when you're awake you hang out with some hot chic who is 3 times taller than you...Now you see why, don't you? :rolleyes:

the racing mind is also a feature of bipolar disorder, but many ADDers do not consider it as a possible diagnosis. it can be hard to seperate ADD from bipolar spectrum disorder, and the bipolar spectrum can cause many of the same symptoms..... also the anger that goes with bipolar can be a sign, and the rapid speech, and the fits of depression....all signs.

Jon.

Imnapl, It lasts all day for me. Sometimes I don't notice the effect as much as others. I guess it depends on how long I meditate and what stage of meditation I get into.
Other people seem to notice the difference in me too. My boss was questioning me about something one day when I was really busy and usually can't concentrate enough to give him a good answer(just stutter and stammer), but that day I calmly answered his questions and continued what I was doing. He looked surprised and said "very good". I think my problem is my mind races esp. under pressure and the meditation calms it.

My apologies, when I posted last it was after having only 4 hours sleep on average this week.
What I forgot to mention is that eliminating certain things for your diet CAN most certainly reduce the symptoms of ADD. There are many independent studies and books about hyperactivity and allergies to foods and dies and preservatives.
But that's not always enough proof for me. Unless I have a personal experience or know someone who has a personal experience that corroborates these studies they are all just heresay to me.

Well, I have proven that my son, now 7 years old....who is definitely a mini-me with lighter hair color has food allergies that make his ADHD symptoms more prevelant. One of the worst offenders is Red dye. You would be shocked to find how many of the packaged foods we eat have dyes in them...and some of them it is for no apparent reason.

So, what you eat can make a difference. When I eat a high protein low carb diet I'm much less ADDish. However, I'm "wired" with ADD so changing what food I eat isn't going to change my wiring. It might help balance out some of the current to different parts of my brain but there will always be the synapses and thought process that I've developed over 40 some years and what I eat won't change that.

The proper diet can help me be more effective in anything I do...but figuring out what the proper diet is can be just as hard as figuring out which med cocktail will help you.

Hi FightingBoredom

My conclusion, after many years of observing my own battels with "hidden food allergies" as the literature refers to them as, is that they do exist, not doubt. However, I have ancedotal experience of alleviation by not eating offending foods (or in one test not eating food for 3 weeks, while i replaced meals with a predigested hypo allergenic liquid food source used in hospitals). The results were i felt a thousand times better when i didnt eat food....

So what can i do with that!? ! ? ! It seems to me, eventually i either have to eat food or i will mistakenly eat food, and then become re-addicted to all the foods that my hidden food allergies beckon me to eat - as the theory is we eat what we are allergic to - and we crave it - so eventually the human will to eat what we desire, prevails over the desire to think clearly...

and over the years, i have had to balance that experience, with a different experience, that of gaining clarity by taking medicines that counteract the ADD and simultaneously reduced my sensitivities, such as sensitivities to the soap and chemical aisles of the supermarkets, which previously i was unable to walk through. After taking medicines, like Adderal or Welbutrin, i was able to walk through those aisles better and eventually without any problem....

i also noticed with ADD medicine my reactions to food allergens reduced significantly. I came to the conclusion that since the ADD meds affect the hypothalamus and/or other regions of the brain, stimulating those dormant regions, that those dormant regions are responsible for adjusting our sensitivities to potential allergens....

thus my theory is that everyone could potentially be allergic to many common food ingrediants, but the ADDer, with regions of the brain at reduced levels of function (or possibly dormant...), are not getting the appropriate physiological protective response that non-adders are normally getting....

thus ADDers, untreated, could be more sensitive to potential allergens... and treatment of ADD with a stimulant to those regions of the brain that are responsible for a plethara of functions, could have the effect of reducing the effects of allergic response in ADDers...

that is my line of reasoning....

:)

Jon

My apologies, when I posted last it was after having only 4 hours sleep on average this week.
What I forgot to mention is that eliminating certain things for your diet CAN most certainly reduce the symptoms of ADD. There are many independent studies and books about hyperactivity and allergies to foods and dies and preservatives.
But that's not always enough proof for me. Unless I have a personal experience or know someone who has a personal experience that corroborates these studies they are all just heresay to me.

Well, I have proven that my son, now 7 years old....who is definitely a mini-me with lighter hair color has food allergies that make his ADHD symptoms more prevelant. One of the worst offenders is Red dye. You would be shocked to find how many of the packaged foods we eat have dyes in them...and some of them it is for no apparent reason.

So, what you eat can make a difference. When I eat a high protein low carb diet I'm much less ADDish. However, I'm "wired" with ADD so changing what food I eat isn't going to change my wiring. It might help balance out some of the current to different parts of my brain but there will always be the synapses and thought process that I've developed over 40 some years and what I eat won't change that.

The proper diet can help me be more effective in anything I do...but figuring out what the proper diet is can be just as hard as figuring out which med cocktail will help you.

Wow! I just realized, while reading this thread, that my lifelong pursuit in finding an argument, even where there isnt one, is just another of my ADD symptoms. Thank you all for that revelation.

No one can possibly (reasonably) argue the fact that eating healthy, getting enough sleep and exersize, taking supplements when necessary, avoiding things that are bad for us (smoking, drinking..) and otherwise taking the best care of our bodies is a GOOD THING!!!! Taking care of our ourselves will lead to our bodies (including the brain and all of its components) working at its optimal level and we will feel better and function better. NOT taking care of ourselves will lead to our bodies NOT functioning at their optimal levels and we will probably feel like crap and exaccerbate any disorders we are afflicted with.

Some of you may know, I am very opposed to meds. However, as I need to be the best I can be so I can be the best Mommy I can be, I bit the bullet and started on meds. First I had to admit to myself that I did not have the discipline to stick to a diet and exersize program that I am certain could help alleviate many of my symptoms. I am now happily on meds. It is a lot easier to take that one little barrel shaped pill I now call "friend."

My point... We are all different and different treatments help different people to different degrees. Who are we to argue with someone who says that they are symptom free since they cahnged their diet. How do we know how certain foods effect that person? Who knows enough about the brain and the effect of every chemical of every food in the world on that persons brain. I love to argue! I almost always think I am right. But come on people. Lets get over ourselves!!!!:D

You make an excellent point .

I hope that whatever course of treatment you take, that it helps you in battling ADHD.

Because of how I've been trained and what I do for a living, I look at the science behind ADHD.

When it comes to the science of ADHD, I'm strictly evidenced based.

Research isn't personal.

Thanks for the post and good luck.:)

You know Mctavich, I truly value and look forward to your input. I think I am quite knowledgeable on the subject, but you are obviously far better read on the official research.

I just don’t always trust the official research. You know as well as I that you must always consider who sponsors a particular study. That said, my reading has spanned many different disciplines. I always prefer a holistic approach as opposed to "a drug for every symptom" as it seems the psychiatric community seems to do, at least in my experience with our foster and adoptive children.

Just as no one drug is appropriate for all people, I think that applies to all types of treatments; nutritional, herbal, behavioral, environmental, spiritual, holistic, pharmaceutical, neurological, homeopathic, chiropractic, qui gong, acupuncture, alchemy. Western medicine is so new, relatively speaking. So I am not ready to accept it as the final word. "Innovation" has hurt as much as has helped us. Chemicals have worked for me. I am glad it was that simple. I am quite certain there are trade offs for putting chemicals in my brain. Those trade offs might not be as bad as I might imagine. Still, I could never tell anyone that chemicals are the only answer for them.

I respect your feedback.

Those are excellent points.

What the mainstream research has consistently said for 30 + years is that there's no nutritional/dietary supplement that works as a clinical treatment for ADHD.

I tend to not trust anything that isn't mainstream.

For example, if the US Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health ( Chapter 3 : Disorders of Infancy, Childhood & Adolescents) coincides with EVERY mainstream/author researcher I've read, as well as with the American Academy of Pediatrics for example, then I'm reasonably secure in the knowledge that those data are accurate and valid.

Having said that, if those data change, then I'll go with that flow. It just has to be substantiated first.

As far as who funds the studies, I've yet to see a mainstream ADHD researcher, published in a mainstream journal, as being accused of being biased.

Now the Scientologist's have been caught pressuring researchers of studies they've funded to "fudge" their data to coincide with their beliefs (or lose the funding).

I have seen a reprint of an article from several years ago on depression research, that indicated 2 studies were admittedly biased in favor of the funding source.

I'd have to go back and look to see if I have it or if we kept it at work.

We subscribe to The Complete Practitoner and The Clinicians Research Disgest; both of which present summaries of research studies concerning clinical /developmental problems.

Omega 3's have shown some promise, but thats all.

I just think its important to be as accurate as possible.

Thanks :)

The one common theme I get from everyone ADD is lack of sleep. For whatever reason. Maybe it was instilled in us as a society during the cold war to always be freaked out that you never know when the bad guys are going to drop the bomb. Who knows. But I would say lack of sleep has more to do with how strongly your ADD symptoms present..or not....than anything in your diet....including medication.I quite agree! When I'm sleep deprived my meds don't work nearly as well. :faint: It also works much better than diet, although for me that plays a part as well. It's a whole picture. Eat right, get plenty of sleep, exercise, stay connected and do something you love! And you may find that you still need meds -- that's okay (I'm practicing this mantra -- hopefully one day I'll totally be at totally at peace with it!;) ).

Scattered

A sleep study put me on the right track and got me started back to school, where i finished my degree. In later years, i found that the quality of the sleep specialist is important, and was able to get further diagnostics and treatment of my sleep, at a more detailed and complex level of diagnosis. It has made a huge difference in my life.

Good sleep isn't an option for everyone. If you have ADD and have not been to a board certified sleep specialist, you are missing an important diagnostic and treatment opportunity. A sleep study alone, is not enough. If you have ADD, it is extremely important to have a sleep specialist on your team. That's one stone I would not leave unturned.


Jon

Jon,

Excellent points.

We 're very fortunate around here.

Our little town has a Sleep Lab, as does the town about 30 miles from us.

So far, every child I've ever referred has had some type of sleep disorder.

I get a Christmas card from the local sleep lab every year, so I must be doing something right......lol.

Thanks for the insights.

mctavish23
(Robert)

Taking care of our ourselves will lead to our bodies (including the brain and all of its components) working at its optimal level and we will feel better and function better. NOT taking care of ourselves will lead to our bodies NOT functioning at their optimal levels and we will probably feel like crap and exaccerbate any disorders we are afflicted with.
An excellent point. If our bodies are in optimal shape, it is easier to separate symptoms caused by ADHD from symptoms caused from poor health.

Jon,

Our little town has a Sleep Lab, as does the town about 30 miles from us.

So far, every child I've ever referred has had some type of sleep disorder.

mctavish23
(Robert)

Thanks Robert!

I am really glad to hear that you, as a therapist dealing with ADD children are recognizing the importance of sleep in our complex disorder. Many professionals never even considered sleep as a possible factor in my ADD. It was 1996 when I found out from a neurologist, and I only saw the neurologist out of pure luck that a friend of mine arranged it - to my surprise. Is it now becoming common to consider sleep disorders in diagnosing ADD? I know the whole sleep disorder field is exploding like crazy. I'm glad its not so obscure anymore.

Jon

Thanks. I appreciate that.

The reasons for my making those referrals are a combination of trial & error over many years of practice and also my having ADHD, which gives me a different perspective than the non ADHD clinician.

Over the years, I've seen sleep disorders become the absolute last thing to be considered; after everything else has been eliminated.

I don't know if it's become common practice to look for those.

I have seen more research articles on the subject over the last few years, so it's become more commonplace in that sense.

Would someone explain "mainstream research". I'm new at this.

Mainstream research refers to research that is published in trusted and respected journals such as the New England Journal of Medicine, Pediatrics ( the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics),JABA( the Journal of Applied Behavior Anallysis) ,etc.

There are many more. The point is that their reputations are impeccable.

They won't accept any research that isn't well done.

In order to be accepted for publication, the researcher's work is scrutinized for research design and methodology.

In other words, is it well done and does it measure what it claims to?

In addition to the Editors, each journal as an editorial review board made up of experts in their respective fields.

They also look the studies over to make sure that the study was done properly and that the results are accurately stated.

There have been numerous studies purporting different supplements to work for the clinical treatment (replaces or works better that medications) for ADHD.

Absolutely none of them have proven to be valid and reliable.

Longitudinal validity & reliability (does the study measure what it claims to and can strangers come along and replicate your study exactly as you did and get the same results?) is the gold standard for all scientific research.

Sometimes those data change.When that happens you have to be flexible enough to go with the flow and put personal opinions aside.

Hopefully that helps you some and I appreciate the question.

take care
mctavish23 (Robert)

I tend to not trust anything that isn't mainstream.

Therein lies the difference between you and me. I read the mainstream research as I do any "mainstream" media.[just one source of information} I mean lets face it, there is far more money to be made in pharmaceuticals or any other western medicine than there is in most "alternative" methods. Who is going to fund the research into herbal supplements to the extent that pharmaceuticals are financed? You can bet that if they made supplements by prescription only (that is, FDA controlled and the pharmaceutical industry making money off it), you could bet that there would suddenly be large scale research showing the efficacy of such treatments.


I mean absolutely no disrespect to your opinion. But how can we deny that money talks?? Do you think that protecting us from the (relatively few) hazards of unregulated supplements is the only reason some politicians want the FDA to control them? Most of those alternative treatments that I listed in my last post have been around centuries longer than western meds and obviously with some degree of efficacy or they wouldnt still be around. Lets also not forget that mainstream research brought us such things as thalitimide(sp), and Vioxx, sacharine and red dye #2:soapbox:

I respect that.

At the same time, please know that I was trained as a "scientist/practitoner," that means I place a high priority on research design and methodolgy;which is consistent with the accepted standards of practice within my field.

There were 5 recent court cases that tried to make the case for collusion between ADHD researchers, the U.S. govt. and pharmacy companies.

Those were all thrown out for having no basis of fact.

I simply trust journals like the New England Journal of Medicine or Pediatrics more than a journal I've never heard of.

Having said that I do read homeopathic journals from time to time,as my primary care physician is English and has an interest iin that.

The bottom line is this.... unless it demonstrates longitudinal validity & reliability, which nurtitional studues have not been able to do, then it doen't matter where they're published.

The bottom line is this.... unless it demonstrates longitudinal validity & reliability, which nurtitional studues have not been able to do, then it doen't matter where they're published.
Again, Mctavish, who is going to fund such a study for nutrition? There is no money to be made. I am not exactly saying that there is "collusion" between the US Govt, the pharm. companies and the researchers. I dont think its all that thought out. But pharmaceutical companies do fund research. Many special interests fund research to support the marketing of A, B or C product. Do you not believe that if someone saw a way of making exclusive profits off people eating right that there would be studies done that confirm their hypothesis???
Marijuana is a proven treatment for pain, for stomach issues after chemo. Though the government demonizes it any way they can, it is not nearly as destructive as alcohol...especially statistically speaking. Yet alcohol is legal and marijuana is not. Gee, who makes the most money off alcohol?? Same for cigarettes. Proven killers. Yet the government is laughing all the way to the bank.
I am not talking collusion here. Its just like I said earlier..Money Talks!
Give me a million dollars and the facilities to conduct my ADHD study. We'll have a group A on meds only that eat whatever, McDonalds, frozen dinners etc. Group B will not be on any meds and stick to a strict diet and exersize program outlined by an exclusive group of top Nutritionists and fitness experts. Group C will do neither meds nor the diet/exersize program (the Control group, if you will.) After one year, assuming we control for outside factors including comorbid disorders, I guarantee that Group B will do AT LEAST as well as Group A in the manifestation of their ADHD symptoms. Yea for nutrition! But why would anyone bother to do that study? Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, even the FDA would stand to lose money on that one.
Personally, I would expect that some of those people in the nutrition gruop could benefit even more with the addition of meds as well and vice versa for the med only group. But that is not why groups like the pharm. companies fund research.

Just a side note....you trust the mainstream far more than I do and more than most people I know. I understand the "scientific" mind. But why does it have to be all or nothing? When you cook, do you use a variety of spices? Or is there just one spice that you've tasted before, you know you like and it never let you down? Add more spices McTavish. The results will suprise you!:D

The funding could come from the government, or a specific university or even a nonprofit foundation .

I don't know who the "right" people would be ,however, the researshers in this area would certainly know.

As I said, the funding isn't an issue with me.

It's about the data.

Can those data be exactly replicated by other researchers, who in turn, obtain the same results?

That's what matters.

Bottom line....NOBODY would fund a study that they are not going to MAKE money from the results... Face it Bud, Its all about the money now. It's all politicized (again, making money for a specific entity). Even the DSM is politicized to the point that it is no longer based on science. I own one, but I take it with a grain of salt since I know it is...shall we say, "influenced."

I respect you very much, but I completely disagree with some of those ideas.

The diagnostic criteria for ADHD are evidenced based and you can read all about the years of research that went into it in The ADHD Handbook :Second Edition (1998).

The Third Edition is out but I haven't received mine yet.

I had this same discussion with another Forum member not too long ago. In the process, I posted some of the references involved.

If the diagnostic criteria were not evidenced based, then every ADHD diagnosis since 1994 (and earlier) would be a complete joke.

I'm a clinical/ child psychologist who specializes in ADHD, not a comedian.

I'm also not the least bit naive about pharmaceutical companies profit motive.

However, the implication that ADHD research is tainted is simply not true.

That whole notion of collusion has been taken to court on 5 separate occasions and was thrown out all 5 times for having no basis in fact.

That idea is very similiar to one of the other "myths" that doctor's get "kick backs" from pharmaceutical companies.

I've already posted on more than one occasion how much I truly despise that line of thought and how bogus it is.

The science of ADHD has a very long way to go; including needed changes in the diagnostic criteria.


Here's real bottom line : Research isn't personal. If someone from completely outside your sphere of influence, i.e., total strangers, can't come along and replicate your study and get the same reseults over an extended period of time, then it has no longitudinal validity and reliability.

I'm very serious about my work and have spent the last 17 years studying ADHD.

I agree there needs to be changes. I can't agree that everything is bogus.

Hey McTav... you drive me crazy -- its great to see you in full action, with full armour, guarding the holy integrity of the art!

:)
Jon

Diet is important, but not a cure in itself.

Junk food like potato chips and sweet drink exacerbate the symptoms and should be avoided as much as possible.

Exercise and a healthy breakfast are essential for me. Mine consists of orange juice, unsweetend meusli with just a touch of raw honey, plain youghurt with some fresh berries, and decaf coffee (caffeine interferes with the meds).

Along some lines of thought here - maybe remnant owns some stock in apples, oranges and peaches :p ....just had to make a smart*ss comment there.

I do wish he'd show back up here and answer to the times he's been questioned as to whether or not he has ADD and whether he has testimony from other ADDers who've tried his "possible cure".