I'm 46, male. I self diagnosed watcing a tv program when I was 20, that ended with "most people out grow it in middle school or by the end of high school." I knew better, but obviously they didn't.

Over the last 4 or 5 years I've tried Ritalin, methylphenidate, Adderall, Dexadrine, Depacote, Provigil, Prozac, and Strattera.

I have been accussed of "changing." I seem to be tired, to myself, and out of step with my own rythyms.

I'm going off the drugs. And I'm going back on everything else... exercise, Sleep, naps, naps, fun, busy schedules, doing things at the drop of a hat. Naps and exercise. I'm going to try to hear the beat of my own drum and march in time with it!

I think I have become more agressive, iracible, and irritable because I am chroically overtired from taking stimulants to keep me awake during the day when others find naps inconvenient. So I don't get the sleep I need and then I act like it. Where is the surprise?

I heard hat "If you fight the jungle, you'll die." Meaning you have to live in harmony with forces bigger than yourself, not constantly try to control everything to you own desires.

We'll see how it works out over time.

David

Best of luck to you... a great deal of me wants to live life this way... unfortunately, so far I am failing to be successful this way. :(

David: I hear you....While I was going through the "depression" line-up of meds trying to find the right one -- and I tried many like you....I went through the same thing.....A suggestion......Might it be possible before you totally quit the meds thing for you to consider, just consider, asking your doctor about Wellbutrin??

I'm not even going to bother telling you about all the "wonderful" things about this med....as I think I'll spare you of all that....I don't get the feeling at this point you want anyone to toot another drug.....but again, Wellbutrin is something you may want to consider.....(it's worked for many where nothing else did)......unless you've already been on it and forgot to mention it above....

In any event, like Paul, I wish you good luck....:)

Joan,

Wellbutrin is on my list to try, but then I havn't officially been on anything yet; but my Strattera/Provigil combo isn't bad.

In order to get some sleep, no Provigil in the afternoon so that I go into cruise about 5PM. I choose when to be awake and when to sleep at the moment by balancing out what I need overall.

David no meds is another option like everything else...and you could always try a lower dose.

If you want something really outside the square.....check out what happens if you have a p5p deficiency (a form of Vitamin B6). Same symptoms as ADD but different basis.

Just something worth considering if your med combo isn't working.

Sleepz.

I'm a computer programmer. First rule is "Fix what you no is wrong and recomplie." Thousands of errors disappear.

I need exercise, structure, sleep when needed, fullfilling things to do, plenty of touch. Until i try that, I', trying to jack up a battleship with a car jack, just not nearly the right size solution. Proper nutritian has to be part of that too.

Thanks

So far i am napping a great deal! Anything from 10 to 15 minutes to an hour and a ahalf, every 15 minutes to an hour and a half! I'm not really sure, but i seem to be sleepy and incredible amount.

How much is my "naature" and how much is rebound from stimulants I cannot tell. I really want to find out what I my own drummers beat is, since it has been so long since i have been unmedicated, and I spent so much of my life that way.

low doses have been one of my attempts to try to keep from being totaly bent out of shape by the drugs. But still, none is proving to be a real test of "adjustment."

If this amont of sleep is my nature, no wonder I would sek "stimulation" in the absence of drugs! To try to function! I just woke up and i'm drowsy again! Yikes!

I'm rooting for you brother. I stopped my meds a couple of weeks back, for the same reasons you did. I am what I am and staying true to me is probably the best meds of all. Although, my wife is keeping an eye on me and if she feels that I'm slipping into something very unhealthy she's promissed to intervene. However, she is also prepared to accept a much less "conventional" me - so we'll see what happens.

this has been years of doing meds. i should be "ok" without them, as long as i aclimate to the requirements thereof again... meet basic needs and social norms...

I always have to off things to other that i know already i cannot or should not do myself. :)

Wondering Why/David: Are either of you feeling any signs of depression since coming off meds?

Before coming off meds YES! Since, no. Frustration with the stupidity of MANKIND yes, but depression, NO! :)

PS. It's not like I'm psychotic going off my Lithium! :)

Well that's good!!

No, I just thought if your meds had any any anti-depressant aspects to them at all -- that perhaps since going off them, you might feel, well, depressed....even a little....but nope I'm wrong..... (I have been many times before)......

Well David, it sounds like a very positive experience for you...very good:)

No major depression yet. But my life is full of turbulence right now, so we'll see what happens when I get to the placid part of the river.

"Why" do you think any river you're in is ever going to have a placid part?

:)

I can love you, but can I be skeptical?

Don't just rely on one person. You know that creates burn out.

Because, one of my goals is for "smooth sailing" :)

A man was walking down a dusty road one day, when he came across another pulling a very heavy 16 foot long section of chain. The frist said to the second "Why are you pulling that chain?" And the second, with a suddenly incredulous crazed expresion asked, "Have you EVER tried to push one?"

I was just questioning whether goals can create unlikely realities. I'd prefer to fit myself and family with a Chinese junk, able to carry heavy loads and survive very heavy seas. Anything that invovles me, I must imagine, will involve change and frequent high seas. It's just my nature.

You, however, are encouraged, at least by me, to follow your path. And if it is peaceful, all the better!

Originally posted by Wheel1975
Before coming off meds YES! Since, no. Frustration with the stupidity of MANKIND yes, but depression, NO! :)

Hell YEAH!

Sorry. Just had to say that after reading that post. :D

Originally posted by Wheel1975
A man was walking down a dusty road one day, when he came across another pulling a very heavy 16 foot long section of chain. The first said to the second "Why are you pulling that chain?" And the second, with a suddenly incredulous crazed expression asked, "Have you EVER tried to push one?"

I love that :D

Originally posted by Wheel1975
I'm going to try to hear the beat of my own drum and march in time with it!

I hear you man. That's one reason I wanted to get off antidepressants and am now taking stimulant (Adderall): (A.) They weren't working or side-effects were too bad, and (B)primarily I wanted to take something where, at the end of the day, I'd be back to my old ADD self. I'd appreciate the improvements on meds and have the option to forego them now and then.

In your case, you're foregoing them altogether, and that's fine. You mentioned exercise and sleep. Might I make suggestion? I just bought a Dr. Amen's book called Healing ADD. Whether that's possible or not, he includes some other great non-med alternatives that you should check out. Here's the link:
Healing ADD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0425183270/secondincomesour/104-1125060-8611161?creative=125581&camp=2321&link_code=as1)

Originally posted by joanrdtobe
David: I hear you.....A suggestion......Might it be possible before you totally quit the meds thing for you to consider, just consider, asking your doctor about Wellbutrin??

I'm not even going to bother telling you about all the "wonderful" things about this med....as I think I'll spare you of all that....I don't get the feeling at this point you want anyone to toot another drug.....

In any event, like Paul, I wish you good luck....:)

Thanks. i must be like hugging a porcupine about now... repelling others with ADD!

i'll be glad to listen to the benefits. Without them to anticipate, i'll not try another drug... :-o

:)

david

Oh really....you want the benefits??? Pull up a chair and grab a pillow......(as Sleepz often prefaces his posts with:D).....

When I started on this med -- oh God 6 or 7 years ago, immediately my appetite was shot...so I lost weight.....need to lose weight? There ya go.....

NOTHING ever worked for me depression wise UNTIL then....At the time my doc and I were looking for a depression med only....we were not looking to deal with ADD YET.....So mind you, this was my first med that was to work for me period and I was to be on for the LONGRUN..and I have been ever since.....

Here the basic benefits:

-serious relief of depression (that yuck feeling in my brain is gone)
- an increased ability to concentrate
-an increased abililty to focus
-an increased ability to sustain the same thought processes without needing to move on to another one due to boredom
-I can sit through an entire 12-step meeting without getting up in the middle of it and leaving
-I can sit through a boring class....the interesting ones go without saying....
-I can write papers....long and short ones....
-I can listen to boring people talk....
-I can read better -- that is stay better focussed on a page
-Hyperfocussing better (Personally I could never do this before)
-think through complex problems
-I feel better overall right after taking them...after all these years....they still work....

All of the benefits are subtle, not drastic.....AND the best thing about Wellbutrin is that the side effects are SOOO minimal....I mean compared to Strattera which was an absolute nightmare for me -- Wellbutrin is a breeze.....

The Wellbutrin does not make me lose sleep...I don't drink any coffee on any regular basis....just irregular.....

Benefits I have not seen with Wellbutrin are increased motivation and increased tolerance for frustration....a little but not much...I still have to talk myself into doing things...but once I'm there -- I'm golden....I can stay there for hours....which is why I was able to graduate from school....

and I still need an anxiety medication....

Thank you!

I hope i don't seem too picky, but I'd like to poke at a few of the things you've said for some more detail. (I have this peculiar brain you see...)

You mentioned
focus
concentration

sustain (12 step, boring person, etc.)

reduction in the need to move on due to boredom.

I need to understand the "focus" of your understanding, ( :) ) and the "concentration" of your understanding. At least at first I'm not really looking for defense of your claim as much as what it means to you, and particularly, why you mention both focus and concentration. That is, why do you [need to?] mention both - what does one mean that the other does not, to you?

There is a great else exciting to me in your post. Your discriminations including "not seen with Wellbutrin are increased motivation and increased tolerance" are very interesting, but I'll catch up to that later. :))

Okay....focus (of my understanding :)) really refers to reading.....or things I must LOOK at.....using my eyes more.....focus is "looking" for long periods of time....

Whereas concentrating for ME (and again my experience, strength and hope ONLY:) ) means concentrating on ANYTHING, i.e. a person speaking....listening to a tape....etc. It refers to a basic "staying with" something.....

True, these are similiar.....but do you see the (subtle) difference?

Like I said, here I'm just trying to understand what you mean by these.

So increase in time duration unbroken, is an increase in focus, and an increase in concentration?

(A yes answer is as ok as a no, to me! :) )

If I understand your question correctly, and I think I do, I believe the answer to your question is YES....increase in time duration that remains UNbroken equals increase in focus and increase in concentration.....and this is a GOOD thing....a VERY good thing....:)

and/but realize too that everyone responds differently to meds, Wellbutrin included....this has just been MY experience....

I was JUST suggesting, David, that before you give up on the med thing altogether ....that perhaps you want to make sure you've considered all of your options...(i.e. that you don't leave out the one that might "work".....that would too bad, in my opinion.....)

Just ducking in to let you know about my very brief experience with Wellbutrin. As I recall, I took it for a few days, maybe a week? Maybe a couple weeks? I started on the standard dose. Now that I've had more experience with meds, I know I should've started lower and slower.

In any case, I felt better at first. I could engage in conversation more easily, especially with DH. The man talks a lot, and only needs an audience (which would be me) most of the time. ;), but on Wellbutrin I could hold my own.

I distinctly remembering having more space between stimulus and reaction, so that once, when he said something that normally would've provoked a snapping irritable response, I took a breath, mulled it over a bit, and said,"Let me think about that for awhile, and we can talk about it later." I don't think I used that phrase before or since! ;)

But before too long, the feelings got a lot more aggressive and I kind of felt like I was spoiling for a fight. That escalated, and I can remember the last day I took it, I wanted to run and run and run. Instead I drove around the city for a couple hours, just trying to get away from myself! I felt like if I'd kept taking it, I would've ended up in a psych ward.

I'm tempted to try it again (Margaret, you fool!), but at about a tenth the normal strength. With all of the drugs I've tried, there are good effects and bad ones. Dang it, I want to find one that's just plain good!

Margreet.

Strattera did that too me. Frustrated my normal expression, but as the side effects started wearing off, so did any illusion of the benefits...

and i was SO angry at me changing (not snapping at my kids) BUT my kids NOT pulling their weight, etc. any better, perhaps worse.

I didn't see a NET improvement in my interections unless i was supposed to be lithiumed out of existance, and then because i wasn't snaping at people, "everything would be better" as if i snapped for no reason, which, according to eveyone, wasn't what was going on....