Does having a stimulant calm and relax (to the point of feeling a bit sleepy) you vs. speeding you up proove you're AD/HD or am I just looking for a little validation?

Typing only for myself, when I first used a stimulant medication, it was as if there was something reigning in my brain. It slowed my thoughts down to a point where I could more effectively carry them out. I accomplished MORE not less.

It didn't make me feel lethargic. I felt alert and focused. However, the amount of alertness and focus depended upon several factors. I had to get adequate sleep the night before, I had to eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner (actually more like 6-8 smaller meals through out the day), and I had to have a tentative list of my daily plans, in order to put my best foot forward.

I would definitely say this is NOT an effective diagnosis method so don't make any plans based on the input you get.

However, I recall 3 different times in the 70's and 80's when I was on long road trips with people and they would give me "speed" (stimulants) so I could stay awake to drive my 10 hour shift just like they were. Problem was I would nod off about 45 minutes later. The more I took the worse it got. It was like a sedative to me. In fact, I'm on Ritalin for the past 8 years and it has a similar effect.

I've also found it very odd that low doses of alcohol or pain killers actually stimulate me. I was on prescription vicodin and they prescribed it to help me sleep. I would take one at 8PM and end up awake until 2AM! But it gave me headaches. So, they switched me to Darvocet and NO MORE headaches...but still couldn't sleep. One night I tried an experiment and took one of my Ritalin at 8PM. I was knocked out by 11:30.

It's weird.....and I would still never use this as a means to diagnose if you have ADHD.

Does having a stimulant calm and relax (to the point of feeling a bit sleepy) you vs.speeding you up proove you're AD/HD or am I just looking for a little validation? No one thing is "proof", but that fact is important and it sure does indicate that something is going on. :)

You need to ADDup (oh look, a pun!) all the other variables about you and compose an overall picture of yourself and then ask the question: "Does this look exactly like ADHD ?"

See your doctor. Gettinhg a diagnosis is NOT easy, nor is is fast or simple for most people. It takes a lot of time and a lot of trips to the doctor(s), and/or therapist(s) and asking hard questions of yourself. It also takes a willingness to accept whatever answer you happen to find, even if it is not pretty.

Me :D

wow, Fighting, you're the first person I've ever known who has the same reaction to pain medication that I do. huge sigh of relief...I thought it was just me. It doesn't drug me out. It makes me more focused. It doesn't even make me drowsy.

I actually have already been diagnosed as ADHD (by psychologist after seeing him for consult and doing neuropsych testing). I guess I really am just looking for some validation. :\

I know the feeling of wanting ADHD validated!

I've been diagnosed with ADHD by a Senior Psychiatrist...put on Strattera(That caused more harm than good) and now i'm weaned off Strattera, i feel a fake...
I know in myself, that i have ADHD... Looking back on my past is the first tale tale sign and the way i think too much and my impulsive behavior always gets the better of me.. heck i could go on and on about my ADHD symptoms and difficulties!
But why didn't Stattera work for me?
I want my ADHD be validated to myself!

Karen

wow, Fighting, you're the first person I've ever known who has the same reaction to pain medication that I do. huge sigh of relief...I thought it was just me. It doesn't drug me out. It makes me more focused. It doesn't even make me drowsy.

Same here! I've never known anyone who has this reaction. Most people think I'm lying when I tell them. My wife included.

Of course, to me, it doesn't mean anything scientific about ADHD. It could just as easily be something that happens to people born in March. :D


Hey, Fixmeplease: I'd take that as validation. Welcome to the valid side of life. :eyebrow:

. . . now i'm weaned off Strattera, i feel a fake...
Karen, Strattera is not a stimulant. Stimulants are probably still the first choice when doctors prescribe meds. for ADHD. Did you try stimulants before the Strattera?

Does having a stimulant calm and relax (to the point of feeling a bit sleepy) you . . . When my first dose of Ritalin kicked in, I remember feeling like I had just done laps in a swimming pool.

Fixmeplease,

I had the same reaction with Concerta - makes me relaxed and even sleepy, but as the medication continues releasing I get energized and focused.

I wonder if I could take a small amount of instant release methylphenidate (Ritalin) to go to sleep at night - instead of klonopin.

Notice that when I took Adderall, the effect was instant clarity of mind and focus-the relaxation (no sleepyness) was only apparent in that I did not need to take klonopin during the day.

Your reaction does not prove you are ADD. However, there is a high correlation between your reacvtion and having ADD.

I wonder if I could take a small amount of instant release methylphenidate (Ritalin) to go to sleep at night If I have an evening meeting, class, or function where Ritalin will help me, I will take a last dose at 7:00 p.m.. Through the years, I've come to realize that if I get to sleep before the last dose wears off, I don't get that second wind which keeps me up too late. :D

My Ritalin doesnt make me feel "calm and relaxed"; more like, it makes the rest of the world get off its collective butt and move/think at MY speed! Or close to my speed, anyways . . .

If you put your reaction to stimulents together with your formal ADHD diagnosis, it's pretty darn suggestive that you do in fact have ADHD. But my understanding is that reaction to meds by itself does rule ADHD in or out. I was even reading somewhere about how they're in the process of identifying a gene that seems to be present in ADHD folks who don't respond to medication. Ten to twenty percent don't find meds effective or can't tolerate the side effects. Dr. Edward Hallowell (Driven to Distraction) listed himself among that group.

When I first started Concerta it made me feel relaxed and a little sleepy.

Why not read the diagnostic criteria for ADHD ?

If you meet the criteria , you have ADHD. If not, you don't.

Me :D

Why not read the diagnostic criteria for ADHD ?

If you meet the criteria , you have ADHD. If not, you don't.

Me :D
Welllllll, maybe! We ADDers aren't the best self observers in the world -- generally I'd go with the professional's evaluation. He can also rule out other DSM-IV diagnoses that share similiar features. One of the most frequent pieces of advice I've read is don't diagnose yourself -- which you haven't! You're just having doubts like a lot of us do. Hey, it's a distraction -- ADD minds love to latch on to something riveting to worry about to focus them!;)

The marvellous thing about ADD is that it allows a person to split hairs infinitely. :p

Me :D


Welllllll, maybe! We ADDers aren't the best self observers in the world -- generally I'd go with the professional's evaluation. He can also rule out other DSM-IV diagnoses that share similiar features. One of the most frequent pieces of advice I've read is don't diagnose yourself -- which you haven't! You're just having doubts like a lot of us do. Hey, it's a distraction -- ADD minds love to latch on to something riveting to worry about to focus them!;)

The marvellous thing about ADD is that it allows a person to split hairs infinitely. :p

Me :DGot to do something with all those eager neurons!:cool:

Strattera didnt work for me either.The funny thing is I knew it wouldnt and I was wasteing my time and money,but thats the only option I got from the first psychiatrist I went to as a adult.I had been wondering for years.Reading everything I could about every brain disorder looking for a answer.I could not accept that it was the norm and I refused to accept that I had to live that way.When I delved into the facts and behaviors of ADD a bell went off!All my answers were in front of me.Then came the real challenge,finding a doctor to help me.I too felt the speedy focus of downers and the mellows of speed so I knew then the stimulant was what I needed.But because I had been self medicationg for so long it was a fight.Im glad I did it.

The marvellous thing about ADD is that it allows a person to split hairs infinitely. :p

Me :D Exactly. :) I've known something wasn't...right since my teens. Unfortunately (for reasons I won't go into) I wasn't able to receive adequate medical care until years later. And the first two times I saw pscyh docs weren't ideal: one dx me as Borderline Personality Disorder with PTSD. The second dx me as Bipolar, rapid-cycling (she seemed a lazy doc and went with this dx b/c I told her my mother has it). None of the antidepressants ever helped.

Again, time went by where I didn't have insurance and now I do. I've never had a manic period ever. I've had all physical things such as thyroid problems (mother has them) ruled out by bloodwork, etc by my primary doc My neurologist (been seeing for years for HAs) had already done CT and MRI to rule out anything with my brain.

Only in August did I start putting all the pieces together and realized that everything I read on AD/HD was describing exactly me. I couldn't believe I'd never figured it out earlier. I guess because I had the typical young hyperactive, troublemaker boy stuck in my head as who AD/HD would be. (I've since read tons and especially identify with the part about how withdrawn well behaved females are so underdiagnosed.) Since I didn't know much about AD/HD and didn't realize it was a neurobiological thing I'd never thought to bring it all up to my neurologist and instead told my pDoc. She consulted with neuro and they agreed I should go for neuropscyh testing before just dx me themselves and putting me on meds.

Did the neuropscyh tests and MMPI. The pscyh said it was all obvious to him within the first 10 seconds of our 2+ hours of consult/testing. Ha ha. He said stimulants would help me. He says that I also have PTSD (this came two weeks later as he was doing a full final report for pDoc and neuro and got results of MMPI).

End of summer/Labor day is worst time for dealing with all of this b/c all of my docs have been busy. Left messages for neuro but she wasn't getting back to me so I had pDoc start me on a stim. She was kind of clueless about what med to give me but I'd done my homework and knew it had to be generic Adderall or Ritalin as that's what my ins. would cover (I'm sure they'd cover the others but with more $$ rx copays and as my office visit copays are $25...well things have been adding up quick). I decided on the Ritalin as I thought the more flexible dosing would be good. (This was on Wednesday and starting Ritalin on Thurs).

My reaction so far has been relaxed and calm on it but with some nervous heartpounding and increased heartrate (have I mentioned yet that I have heart issues too?). I'm still not getting anything accomplished but I"m just not a nervous wreck about it. :p

Neuro got back to me (well the nurse practioner that handles rx) on Thurs and said that Adderall would be the better choice for me (oops) and not to take the Ritalin. I have appt to go see her next week. Psychologist got back to me on Thurs night as well with the MMPI results. He also said not to take the Ritalin (double oops).

Well...I still am. Not the full 2-3x per day. But I just can't stand to be in my own skin anymore and the Ritalin at least is calming my thoughts enough to not want to jump out the window. I still feel like a complete mess. Psych wants me to go on SSRI but I've been on some before with no relief. Will suggest to neuro Wellbutrin. But...then I have to go see cardiologist and who knows...they might tell me I can't take any of these and then I'll just completely freak out.

I can't believe how much I've rambled on but it feels good to write all of this out. And I've really summarized and left some stuff out! :D

BTW: all of my symptoms run in all the females in family. One was dx as "hyperactive" and used Ritalin before they were calling it AD/HD. I'm pretty sure my mother is also this but she doesn't realize it. Grandmother thinks that "gee, maybe this is what's been wrong my entire life".

I just always second guess everything. Want to double check and triple check it all.

So sorry for the rambling. If anyone survived this post thank you for reading and to everyone for their previous responses.

NO. It doesn't "prove" you have ADHD. No one would actually try and diagnose from that.

To have ADHD the diagnostic criteria MUST be met first.

The next thing (and most important) would be for there to be evidence of some type of "impairment in major life activities that cause "harmful dysfunction."

Without all that you have nothing.

Sometimes the diagnosis of bipolar is made serendipititously by a medication trial with stimulants for ADHD that make the patient worse.

SInce there's no definitive test for biploar (or ADHD) thats not exactly research based, but it does happen that way sometimes.

The marvellous thing about ADD is that it allows a person to split hairs infinitely. :p

Me :D
Yeah, EXCEPT those of us who are going bald so fast that splitting hairs just makes it worse! :rolleyes:

NO. It doesn't "prove" you have ADHD. No one would actually try and diagnose from that.
Well I realize that. I guess I was asking if people that were already diagnosed as AD/HD felt that their diagnosis was validated by having stimulant medication calm and relax their thoughts. However I was a tad overmedicated on painkillers (feeling tired and a bit insecure) when I originally posted so I wasn't very clear. :) Though what I say/type normally isn't what I mean. It takes 2-3 tries to get it out right.

No Problem. Welcome to the Forum.

My meds calm me down too (except when I'm watching football).:)


take care


mctavish23(Robert)

Well I realize that. I guess I was asking if people that were already diagnosed as AD/HD felt that their diagnosis was validated by having stimulant medication calm and relax their thoughts. However I was a tad overmedicated on painkillers (feeling tired and a bit insecure) when I originally posted so I wasn't very clear. :) Though what I say/type normally isn't what I mean. It takes 2-3 tries to get it out right.

Actually, to answer your question more clearly with my own experience:

Before I was professionally diagnosed I caved into my brother (who had been on Ritalin for 2 years) insisting that I just take 1 10mg Ritalin and see what happens. If I noticed a dramatic difference then I should see someone and move forward.

I took a 10mg Ritalin and for the next 5 or 6 hours I thought it was like someone actually lifted a mental fog that I wasn't really aware was there since I had grown so used to it.

So, I guess you could say I used a professional diagnosis to validate what I already knew to be true from doing my own research and taking the medication.

I have been wondering this myself. College kids are taking Ritalin and Adderal to help them study, so either they are also feeling the effects that I do, or they are just using the stimulants to stay awake for an all nighter.

I think I'm the only one I know who was able to sleep comfortably after a few cans of coke.

This confuses me because I used to drink coffee religiously every morning and it would wake me up. Ritalin has the same effect for me but without the jitters. I'm wondering if maybe the caffeine focused me rather than woke me up in the morning. Maybe the stimulant effects of other people is different from what I feel.

Does having a stimulant calm and relax (to the point of feeling a bit sleepy) you vs. speeding you up proove you're AD/HD or am I just looking for a little validation?
It’s not considered sufficient or even appropriate to use the contrary effect of stimulants as a guide to diagnosis.

But our doctor does consider it potential confirming evidence. It’s not officially accepted as such, though.

We don’t have a model of why this happens. Our theories work on a different level. But we suspect it has to do with understanding stimulant action in our brains in a different way, as if brain chemistry was more like a buffer solution than a dissociated ‘soup’, and the effective buffering point was shifted a bit by the stimulants one way or the other.

Thus, if we imagine that our AD/HD brains might be a little high (or low – it doesn’t matter which), you could see how the shift might be in a different direction for us as compared to normals. Thus, the contrary effect.

This model of the chemistry of the brain being controlled at a certain level (as the pH of a buffer solution is, although not necessarily by the same mechanisms) is also useful when trying to understand the action of many other drugs that cross the blood/brain barrier.

But if the model fits you can see why it can’t serve as a diagnostic tool. You would need to know why the level was shifted, not just that it was shifted in a particular direction.

Oh, yeah, we drink coffee and sleep like babies in our house.

We've found Ritalin can calm down an over excited sleep session, too. We've occasionally gotten up at 4 AM (not because we couldn't sleep) after a couple of long, tough emotional days and taken our normal dose of Ritalin or Adderall to sleep better for the next couple of hours. It works like a charm.

Doesn't do a thing to wake us up when we haven't had enough sleep, either.

One more thing...

I use Ritalin on long plane rides and it relaxes me and makes me not care about what usually would annoy me inside an airplane... everything.

I was on Ritalin and now on Concerta, and I experienced a wonderful 'awake' feeling....no jitters, just fully awake.

My theory is that, because there is a deficit of neurotransmitters, individual thoughts or intentions do not reach the point they need to to generate action (and action includes thinking something through, figuring something out, getting things done or remembering things). Because these 'messages' just kind of dwindle off as they rush through my brain, it is constantly trying to 'hook' something to focus on...but there's always some new message drifting by that seems like a likely 'hook', and my brain shifts to that new message.

It is like a dream state, free association. I love the places it takes me, but when I'm someplace where I can't just lie back and dream, there is a sometimes unconscious, but essential effort on the part of my body and mind to keep me as awake as possible.

Unfortunately, physically that often means tensing and untensing my muscles, fidgeting, looking around, etc. Mentally, the 'hook' goes out trying to find something to focus on, or 'attend' to.

On a stimulant, the messages get through. I can choose something to think about and focus on that, and actually follow through; so there is no need for the 'hook' to come out. I can relax my body, because there is no need for that effort to keep it awake...but it's become a habit, so I find myself having to focus on it, to consciously relax.

I find it's a pretty neat feeling....to allow my body and mind to relax, yet still be able to attend to what's going on.

In a nutshell, the stimulant gets me to a state of consciousness that NTs achieve without meds. At least I think so....

Responsivity to stimulant medications is not indicative of any psychological condition. In fact, most people will respond positively to stimulants taken in proper doses. Many people smoke cigarettes or drink coffee to inrease their ability to stay focused and on topic. Stimulant medications often are given in doses higher than those of OTC stimulants such as caffeine, but they may still give a positive effect to those who take them, even without a condition.

Though there is a paradoxical effect in that people with ADHD tend to respond to stimulants in some doses by becoming calm and relaxed, whether than "wired" or "buzzed," this reaction is not indicative of the condition. These drugs quiet our minds, but they still improve performance of most people when properly dosed. For this reason, the military often employs stimulants to allow soldiers to remain alert and focused over long periods of time.

So, in brief: no, stimulants helping are not indicative of anything other than the fact that you're taking stimulants.



As for speedo's comment, reading the diagnostic criteria alone is not an effective way of diagnosing ADHD. Many of the criteria are subject to interpretation, and many can only be judged by trained professionals. Also, many criteria overlap, especially with ADHD, therefore misdiagnosis is quite possible without proper training in using the DSM-IV. Further, you should not take prescription stimulant medicines without a prescription; it is not only illegal, but dangerous.

Ultimately, you should consult a psychiatric professional; they can not only provide trained and legitimate diagnoses, but also work with you to develop a treatment plan.

Also relevant is the question, Does the diagnosis make sense? Does it effectively explain more than other diagnoses?

And if you have comorbid OCD--as I do--you obsess over the ADD diagnosis.

But I can truly relate to Hallowell's chapter on "The itch at the core of ADD" in "Delivered from Distraction."

On another forum I once read a post wherein a guy described himself as ADD/narcoleptic--apparently describing an understimulated brain.

I don't know whether that guy was merely being rhetorical (probably was), but i can relate to a sense of an understimulated brain--which Dr Daniel Amen also describes as a symptom of ADD.

Years ago my Dr had me take fenfluramine (diet pill that raises serotonin) to augment the Prozac I was taking for OCD. The fenfluramine just made me drowsy, but some of the people in the case histories in the article my doc had me read were experiencing brain stimulation on fenfluramine.

That's the time it dawned on me--but at that time I could not find the words to describe it--my brain felt very understimulated!!!!

And when my Doc switched me to Ritalin and Dexedrine to wake me up in the a.m. (because the large doses of Prozac were quite sedating), the stimulants not only woke up my brain, but stopped my obsessing and calmed me down.

Years later (a couple of years ago) I was at the Dr and was talking about the racing thoughts of OCD. The Dr looked at me and said, "How do you know you don't have ADD?" I had to say "I cannot say I do not."

When I took my first Strattera, it was like applying jumper cables to a dead battery. i took it at night, it woke me up, and even made me a bit euphoric. Unfortunately, Strattera stopped working positively for me after a few weeks.

My Doc had to prod me to go back on stimulants (this time for ADD). I asked him if the DEA would get mad at us. He said he would be the one to get in trouble--if anyone--since he writes the scripts.

In diagnosing my ADD--which my Doc has reconfirmed on more than one occasion--he relies in part on my reports when I first took Ritalin--that it calmed me down.

I also score "highly probable" for inattentive ADD on Dr Amen's questionnaire. And while not conclusive, this questionnaire has tons of questions.

.

So for me, the ADD diagnosis makes sense. The feeling of an understimulated brain is hell on earth.

Best Regards.

DBR