Forest Laboratories has announced the results of a six-month study demonstrating that Lexapro (escitalopram oxalate) is as effective as Paxil (paroxetine HCl) in patients with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD). Results of the 123-patient study found that, although both Lexapro and Paxil were associated with improvement in anxiety symptoms, three times as many Paxil-treated patients withdrew from the study due to adverse events than did Lexapro patients, and more than twice as many Paxil-treated patients experienced weight gain.


instead of taking something that is going to keep the serotonin that you have in your body and could cause very serious side effects take the actual neurotransmitter itself. L-Tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin and if you are serotonin deficient then this is what you need and not the drug. the drugs are dangerous believe me and will not cure you of anything. please read everything about meds before you use them becaues your doc will not tell you everything.

Supplements like L-Tryptophan are not regulated by the FDA, and as such, manufacturers are not required to meet any measure of quality. Despite the comments to the contrary, please do NOT switch from a prescribed med to a supplement without consulting with your doctor.

but this is the same FDA that allowed drugs like xanax on the market after just 8 weeks of study. FDA is a joke. its all about money. there is no doubt the pharmaceutical agencys are making all the money and all that their drugs do is "treat" and not cure. they all have horrible side effects and once you get those side effects you are prescribed another pill and the problems just get worse and worse. that is the typical scenario. how many people in this group have been cured of their add or adhd or have their symptoms controled? the only thing there is around here is drugs and people being totally clueless about a lot of things. i was just kinda skimming around and saw one guy talking about shortness of breath from a medication. the FDA is a joke and so are meds for the most part. no ones body is asking for these man made chemicals being put in there. its asking for what *** naturally has in there. if you have neurotransmitter deficiencys correct them. mineral/vitamin def then correct them. food allergies such as gluten grains and dairy then correct that. essential fatty acid deficiency then correct that. but no one looks there which is the problem. instead they look to drs who will give them pills and the people trust that because commercials on tv everyday have people brain washed. i dont want to start drama. i just want people to know the truth and know that there is a lot more hope than trusting drs and their poisons. most drs are good people but they "treat" with pills and are ignorant of the fact that they are hurting more than helping.

I am somebody who did try to treat my ADD and anxiety with Nutrional supplements. While Omega-3 supplments were/are helpful to my ADD my anxiety was not helped by diet or nutritional supplments. I like many people researched both the benefits and possible side effects from taking prescribed medications. I for one am very happy that I made an educated choice or treating by my ADD and anxiety with prescribed medication.

I do still keep up to date about both non-medical and medical treatments options. I do agree that people taking medication need to be proactive and keep themselves educated about the medication they are taking. But, if I was still taking supplements for anxiety instead of lexapro I don't know if I'd have been able to leave my house yet and my anxiety could have turned into full blown Agoraphobia.

The key in a rational statement of opinion might be not to get too emotional and indulge in black and white thinking.

Natural alternatives should be considered. There is corruption at the FDA (and the $hurch, etc.), but it does not make them 100% evil - just high on the scale :D.

I might take some melatonin to sleep, but if I had a bad infection I would not want anything made by the gods - just give me a devil's antibiotic enenthough I don't have an antibiotic deficiency.

Natural does not imply "good" - you can die or go into shock from consuming natural ingredients.

Unfortunately, the profit system does not allow for a lot of solid scientific research on natural ingredients which cannot be patented. As a result, we know more about synthetic ingredients.

check out this site-edited by moderator - you need to have 20 posts before you can paste a URL, sorry.

This is just one site where a lot of research and success has been accomplished. Natural is harder than to just take a pill and I understand all your posts. It does take patience to try and become your own doctor and use natural things but I truly believe it is the best way to go and most hopeful if you want to ever be truly well.

I see articles, testimonials, and books for sale.

The article I scanned had references listed and one of those sited was Breggin. I didn't look further. Breggin et. al. are highly biased sources of info. For more info. on Breggin and the myriad of discussions surrounding his view on ADHD on psychiatry, please use the search engine at ADDForums.

If there you have *research* you can link to, I'll look over the info. Research from peer-reviewed journals are among the resources I would consider valuable.

Articles and testimonials are collections of opinions and anecdotes. It is not science.

I take medication because my symptoms need to be managed. I also eat right, exercise, and learn better ways to manage my symptoms.

W.

There have been NO nutritional supplements found to be effective as a clinical treatment for ADHD, going all the way back to the 1970's and the Feingold Diet.

Omega 3 long chain fatty acids (fish olis) have shown some promise;but only as a supplement and not a clinical treatment.
To a lesser extent, there's been some mention of a high protein diet as well.


I've posted this before, but one of the things Russ Barkley said at the 2003 Door County Summer Institute, was that the Church of Scientology had been caught trying to pressure researchers to alter their findings to coincide with theirs, by threatening to pull the funding.

Some of the researchers came forward rather than submit fake data.

Anything with Breggin's name on it is biased.

first of all, Breggin is just one guy. i dont know anything about him but just becaseu there is one source with Breggin in it doesnt mean the rest of the info is false.

here is another article on the same site without Breggin as a source. http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/drugfree.htm this is just one without Breggin in it. and yes, there has been plenty of positive results using nutrition. where did you find that there wasnt? one source or just by thinking that this Breggin guy is biased? Doris J Rapp talks a lot about ADD and ADHD in her book "Is This Your Child?" she has seen very good results by eliminating multiple hidden food allergies. i wonder how many people on this site has eliminated their food allergies. going the natural route is no doubt a more difficult task than popping a pill. taking a pill is understandable because the majority of the people are ignorant of whats going on with them which is totally understandable. i mean where do you look when you have a bunch of crazy things going on with you? you go to the dr. i am just trying to get the word out there is more hope out there than to be dependent on a pill. and it is dependence because when you stop taking it you get the symptoms again. natural is more hopeful, a lot healthier, better or as good results from medication, no side effects, but harder to figure out. the pros definitely out weigh the cons. but there is undoubdetly results from nutrition found when the problems are corrected.

Breggin is just one guy;no question.

The problem is that he is the #1 least respected/most unethical/fraudulent alleged "researcher" on earth.

It's like the instant kiss of death for any semblance of credibility.

A Breggin thread ->http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20721
and a Scientology thread because really they go hand in glove. -> http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18118

Food alergy ehhh...which specific food or food group? Logically then, you would think that certain poplulations in this world would be ADHD free because some populations stick to a very rigid and limited diet. BUT there is zero evidence of that.

Breggin is, in my humble opinion, a clown.
Suppliments aren't the same are medication. You could take 5-HTP till you choke and it still wouldn't necessarily increase the amount available at the neuron level. It might if your particular problem was due to a shortage of serotonin or the precurser chemicals.
"Natural" is such an overused term and really has no bearing on anything, in and of itself. Calling something "natural" and implying that it is somehow better because it is natural is wrong - a chemical is a chemical and a molecule is a molecule regardless of where it comes from, beit a leaf on a plant or a reactor at Pfizer.

At last night's presentation, the presenter discussed why simply talking the amino acids themselves doenst work.

Im going to have to have some free time to post that.Rght now I'm home for lunch and its busy at work,

She definately addressed that and explained why it doesn't work.

Scuro,

Everyone's chemistry is different buddy, therefore there is no specific food group. It is something the individual has to figure out on his/her own. The most common allergies would be dairy, breads, processsed foods, food additives, and sugar. Yes, there is no proof that finding food allergies in oneself is going to make an ADHD person free of ADHD just like there is no proof that taking medication is going to get someone free of ADHD. When taking a med and if it works then that person has to stay on that med or else the symptoms return. That is dependence.

Going the "natural" or whatever you want to call it is much tougher but once that person corrects what needs to be corrected then they are free and there is no need for medications. Maybe "natural" is overused but tahts just a term. Call it whatever you want. I would call it nutritional.

I think my posts are getting misinterpreted. I want to say that medication can help and that is a positive for sure. If someone wants to stay on meds then tahts their call. Medication actually helped my sister. But there is nutritional help that can have the same results or better than meds. To the people it does help I am sure they think to themselves that this is what they need for the rest of their lives and they would be totally content. I am sure most people in here who are on meds will take them the rest of their lives. I am just saying that there is ways to get well without meds. Maybe meds is the first step a lot of people need to take.

Regarding Amino Acids,

First of all, you have to LEARN how to use amino acids. People have to LEARN about themselves and their chemistry. Amino acids is just one step in the total load of getting well. One example of why an amino acid could not work is because the person using them could have a sever malabsorption problem from intestinal dysbiosis. For example, candida or leaky gut syndrome. That is one reason why it may not work. Also, the person using amino acids may not have the necessary nutrients to support or use the specific amino acid that person is using. There is no doubt that "nutritional" is much more difficult and frustrating. But it is a matter of correcting what is wrong in your body chemistry. Taking a man made chemical is going to do the job. It will "treat" but not solve. I am just trying to get the word out that is all. I really dont want to cause conflict which im guessing you guys think I am trying to do.

There are chemicals that fit right in "naturally" and then there are man made chemicals that fit in unnaturally.


Shawn

Shawn,

I don't disagree that good nutrition will help your general well being. There may be also a very small portion of people who can be treated when they take supplements for poor attention but then they wouldn't be ADHD. ADHD is not a nutritional disorder.

You have had bad experiences with meds and good experiences with supplements...GREAT that you found something that works for you!! But this is a subjective experience that you had and not the typical experience of people with ADHD. When Scientists want to see the effectiveness of a treatment they want objective evidence. So far there has been no study that has been repeated, that shows objective clinical evidence. This is Science, coming up with a theory and having others replicating your results.

Meds on the other hand have an incredible success rate for ADHD. For straight ADHD it has a 92% success rate, and it blows me away when parents who have children who have a significant impairment won't even do a trial run to see if it will help.

If food allergies were the cause there would be significant differences of the occurance of ADHD between populations and that just isn't so. There are cultures where dairy, breads, processsed foods, food additives, and sugar....are not eaten.

Scuro,

i am very passionate and going through what i have i guess i just wanted to share some knowledge. i am sure you are right about the adhd. i actually have ocd and depression so i cant say anything about adhd since i have no insight on it. i havent talked to many people with adhd and their ways of getting well other than this group. so i want to apologize if i offended anyone in any way. the things i wrote i do believe is true with a wide range of mental illness but maybe adhd is different. i did read that eliminating food allergy helped a lot. maybe you could explain to me what its like to have adhd and like give me some scenarios you went through. i do want to learn. take care and God bless.

Shawn

Depression is a different animal and the treatment is not as effective as it is with ADHD. I do know that the meds don't work as well, especially for some people so I can relate to where you are coming from. You probably had to hobble together a way to make things tolerable and the diet along with other things, may have made a big difference.

It's very normal to take your experiences and use them as a basis for understanding similar things, for the most part this works, sometimes it doesn't...and the mark of an intelligent man in to know the difference. Seems like you are already there.

My ADHD...I have the spacy daydreamy kind. I have true attentional problems in that I zone out and also have problems absorbing new information which i can't relate to something that I already know. There are other issues too. More here -> http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19889
My report card below shows you how I was as a kid. What helps me? Coffee (stimulant), music, and just being passionate what I do with my time in this life. I'm looking at some possible ways of fitting into the "groove" better.

My personal experience with Food Allergies and being AD/HD and having a very healthy diet.
I am allergic to corn, corn starch, corn oil, corn syrup anything corn including dextrose which has corn in it.
I'm also allergic to egg white's and scallops.
If you read the foods in the store you will see just how many are loaded with corn syrup.
Because my allergies are so severe I can not eat most of those premade or packaged foods.
My diet is based on the vegetables I grow and me cooking everything from scratch.
I spend a great deal of time in the kitchen just making ingredients.
For instance I have had a hard time finding a baking powder that does not have corn starch in it.
So I have to make my own baking powder.
With a diet as restricted as mine and as filled with natural and healthy things.
I can honestly say it has not made my AD/HD any better.
When I was suffering from severe depression it made no difference then either.

Ive been lifting weights for years.

In the process, I regulary take free form, branch chain aminos and protein (drinks). I also take creatine but I haven't cycled that in a while.


The presentation I saw last night dealt with ADHD. The presenter was a neurodevelopmental pediatrician from Philadelphia, who's done post doc work at Harvard.

She specializes in ADHD with kids.

Dopamine is very complex and impacts more than one location.

Here's why taking L-Dopa WON'T EVER WORK: IT DOESN'T WORK IN THE MESOCORTICAL PATHWAY.

What she said is that the mesocortical pathway is where the dopamine basically goes (for lack of a better word).

The DA Mesocortical Pathway invloves 2 important projections to Cortical areas:

1)Dorsolateral projection:attention to details,generation of response alternatives, perseveration and working memory.

2)Medio-orbital projection: impulsivity,social functioning ,emotional lability (lack of inhibitory control).

L-DOPA doesn't work there, no matter how much you take.

If it were that simple, the scientists who've spent their lives working on this would have figured it out long ago.

Suggesting that regular amino's would make a difference is completely off base.

Apology accepted.Thanks.

Yes, but I've experienced changes in my mood, from diet. If I eat a more fruit, for example I feel better. And fried foods are just so tempting, but I have to admit that I don't feel very good after eating them. The healthier I eat the better I feel.

I could eat so much, but I don't. The moment I know I've had enough, I usually stop eating. I am careful not to overeat. I don't like feeling full. I've learned that the full feeling is a sign of overeating. Get the to-go box, don't eat everything on your plate at the restaurant. You know what I mean, they give you too much. Again, you don't want to feel full. It effects the way you function, I swear.

You kinda feel a sense of control, too having not given-in to your desire to clean your plate. The feeling of being balanced I think adds to one's sense of well-being. Couldn't really hurt, if you are depressed. Over-eating does negatively effect depression.

It's fun trying new things too. Try something different, there's plenty of healthy, delicious foods you probably have never tried before.

And exercise is good for you in so many ways. Your overall sense of well-being. Exercising actually gives me more energy. I know in depression there is a problem with the lack of energy people experience

Socializing too. Gets you out of your mind for awhile. Try to socialize as much as you can. Remember, every second counts. Gets your mind off of negative thoughts for a bit.

Hope I wasn't completely off base here. I may or may not know what depression really is. Ha, I don't know if I've experienced a genuine depression. Can anyone give me a link to somewhere, where people really describe their depression and the possible causes, and what they have done to get out of that funk?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understood what I heard at the ADDA Conference if a neurotransmitter is being "suck up" (technical term:p ) too quickly and recycled for use or if there aren't enough receptors on the post synaptic gap it doesn't matter if you add more of the neurotransmitter through diet and such (they were specifically referring to dopamine, but I think the same thing would apply to serotonin) it still couldn't be utilized without slowing the reuptake with a medication. I know in the case of L-tyrosine studies showed it helpful for several weeks and then it would suddenly stop working. Maybe someone who has a better grasp of this can clarify this more.


I definatley believe that a healthy diet, plenty of exercise and sunshine and such can definately help -- but sometimes the medication is also needed to get the best effect.

Scattered

I am just not sure how much it is really helping anything.

I sound very ignorant, but do all of these medications really make someone feel better? I'm can see that they do. I'm just a pretty healthy person, that's why I think I have a hard time figuring out why people think that meds really help them. And that they need them.

If someone is out and about, eating plenty and drinking plenty, it sure makes it hard to tell if they need medication. They are just too busy. What relief they need, they can get through sleeping. That's how I see it.

By just doing what you can, being honest with yourself with others you can bypass some problems, possibly.

I guess meds aren't necessarily going to feel like a miracle. I sound a little biased. Like, I know most people aren't looking to let life happen to them. Well, I used to be sort of like that. I sometimes think that people need to give meds a rest, and just get a feel for themselves.

Stimulants do change you, I know from experience.

It just seems that life is too big to worry about all this medication business.

Then again this all could be coming from a guy who took them without ever really needing them. But a lot has changed about me. I'm just so sceptical of meds.

I am just not sure how much it is really helping anything.

I sound very ignorant, but do all of these medications really make someone feel better? I'm can see that they do. I'm just a pretty healthy person, that's why I think I have a hard time figuring out why people think that meds really help them. And that they need them. Well, let me see ..... YES! They definately make be feel better -- I don't feel like I'm being assaulted by incoming stimuli at the same rate, so I don't have to zone out or hyperfocus to avoid over bombardment. I listen better, I remember better, I'm less impulsive, I modulate my emotions better and I could go on, but yeah -- for me it makes a huge difference. I am also a bit of a health nut, eat a very simply healthy diet, exercise and so worth -- but without the medication I couldn't manage my current responsibilities effectively -- that's were the "impairment" part comes in!:p

If someone is out and about, eating plenty and drinking plenty, it sure makes it hard to tell if they need medication. They are just too busy. What relief they need, they can get through sleeping. That's how I see it. For most non ADD folks that is probably true. Sleep won't fix ADD, although it might make it more managable.

By just doing what you can, being honest with yourself with others you can bypass some problems, possibly. You can improve you situation with sleep, good diet, exercise, etc but you can't cure ADD this way -- many of us have already tried this. In a situation where work is my only responsibility I can actually pull it off without medication, but since I've choosen to include a husband and two kids into my equation -- that is over my limit (and since I've grown rather attached to them -- I'd rather take medication than get rid of my family;) ).

I guess meds aren't necessarily going to feel like a miracle. I sound a little biased. Like, I know most people aren't looking to let life happen to them. Well, I used to be sort of like that. I sometimes think that people need to give meds a rest, and just get a feel for themselves.

Stimulants do change you, I know from experience.

It just seems that life is too big to worry about all this medication business.

Then again this all could be coming from a guy who took them without ever really needing them. But a lot has changed about me. I'm just so sceptical of meds.Maybe herein lies your difficulty with understanding -- taking medication when you don't need to is never a good idea. But please don't judge others who do need to take medication. I've tried going off my medication and ended up with the same unfortunate behaviors that warranted starting it in the first place.

Scattered

Maybe, maybe I'm not allowing myself to take on so many responsibilities. I do feel very bad, when I have those responsibilities. Like, I just applied for a second job b/c my other one wasn't giving me enough hours. This new job seems like it will be a huge responsibility. I have no schedule, it all depends on me w/this. I don't have a certain quota to make, so that's good. And mostly likely, unlike you w/a family, I can bail with my job. But I'm feeling the overloaded feeling again. This is something that I'm not sure everyone else feels. Or maybe everyone else just deals w/it more quickly, and doesn't think about it so much.

I just think life is pressuring me. Take a look at my life and I haven't really dealt with too much pressure. Perhaps, it's b/c I hate it/think about it so much. I don't "get with it" for a reason, eh? What is my dang problem! I could be afraid, embarrassed, unwilling to keep up the effort. Well, this time it shall be kept. Starting now. Nope, too easy. It is not that easy, but I can think that if I choose to. I dunno, it could be that I just don't have the nerve. But couldn't I just do it? No, no these things take time, no matter what you think you can do, what you can do is another story?

Thanks for actually attending to my posts, scattered I appreciate it.

Maybe my problem is, when I think of how much more I could do to help my problem, meds never really fit in the right place. You know, how are they going to help me get things done? Life is too short to dawdle on any one thing for too long. I don't know if I really want that kind of focus...

By no means do I think I am right. I'm just saying how I see things at this particular point in time.

Your welcome Bosipheus!:) Hey, believe me -- if I can get to a point in my life down the road where I can do it without meds -- I will! I did college and early work history by eating right, getting and unbelievable amount of exercise and having plenty of down time. Just a bit harder to do all those in the needed amounts these days. There was still impairment then -- but on a whole I could work around it. Besides, I'm actually kind of liking the feeling of not wanting to jump out of my skin and being pressured to "do something" every second. If going off meds meant giving that up -- I don't know, maybe not.

Take care!
Scattered

I hope I have extra time in college. I don't want to have to work and study all the time. I hope I can find some down-time.

That's what I thought, though. I know that probably most people are like this; not wanting to take meds, and all that. How can they actually think that they are too good for meds? I don't think I am, no way! I just want, like you and many people, to live more independently.

I might just have to get a little into it, embarass myself. Really, just take the path less treaded. This sounds so complicated, but I think Zen can help with this. Zen should help uncomplicate things for me. Though it may call for me to give a little more. Maybe it could help many ADDers really use their compulsions to do things at every moment. Afterall, Zen teaches people to live in the present. I'm really just starting. I just got the Idiot's Guide to Zen Living. Seems like a very simple and interesting read. I'd much rather not read so much as actually talk to people, though. Working tends to shorten the length of my ups and downs since I am around people often and have plenty of chances to socialize with different people.

I think it's cool and strange to be aware of all of our feelings like this. Do meds finally make you realize what it is to feel normal? I think we should do everything and anything to feel good. But are meds really necessary? I just don't want to give up my hope that they aren't. Enough of my life is just hectic enough.

Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of ADDers I notice seem to function fine w/o the help of meds. And they have plenty responsibilites. And I really just don't feel like thinking anymore. Wasting time, thinking you know. Rather than just doing. Caring about thoughts are just something else to.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to whether meds are necessary. Each person's situation is different. I think many of us can "get by' with out medication but most people want to do more than just get by. I think a lot depends on how debilitating each person's condition is. For me my anxiety was extremely debilitating.

Yes, but when you think of how much we are trying to make ourselves fit in...

We are more alike then most people are willing to admit. And when you think about how much we are really trying to fit in.

I think meds are always the answer b/c we don't have to always fit in, I dunno.

Anxiety, I guess is a thing with me. But I'm not sure if we are talking about the same type of anxiety here. I just am not sure, if the anxiety I feel is natural for most people. If it was just me making the wrong choices. And as a result I feel anxiety now, b/c I just haven't the experience. You know where I am coming from?

I doubt myself big time. And the way I've lived my life. I don't think I need to make up for them with medications. I think that I need to take a break and just get my life straightened out. A different kind of break.. Something that is not the same, no something different. Like trying new things everyday. Not just food, but talking to people you wouldn't have ever thought about talking to.

If you are constantly living in the present, going wherever your heart leads you, you won't have to settle for the life that requires medication to be successful. No, I'm not suggesting you completely have to change everything. You just have to gradually build yourself up and just live. You can think about it, sure, that's natural. It's hard not to think about the past and future. But really, just get into whatever you are doing.

NO matter what, you keep trying. Anxiety is such a big problem, though isn't it. But as you keep working at it, it gets better. Don't give up, trying new things helps, right??

The message this week for my church, reads; Adversity introduces you to yourself. I think stressful times are a great opportunity for growth, you know?

How do you know you need them? Do you have to be really failing at what you are doing to consider yourself "in need"? I suck at most things. But I think everything is hinging on something, like not being interactive enough. Stress is caused by something else. I think stress is our responsibility. We cause it, we can end it. End it w/o actually dying, I mean.

Well, I have to let this post go, thanks for listening .